ML19308A386
| ML19308A386 | |
| Person / Time | |
|---|---|
| Site: | Crane  |
| Issue date: | 05/03/1979 |
| From: | Robert Evans METROPOLITAN EDISON CO. |
| To: | |
| References | |
| NUDOCS 7908300045 | |
| Download: ML19308A386 (48) | |
Text
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1 0'
l UNITED STATES OF AMERICA L
i NUCLEAR REGULATORY COMMISSION i
i i
d In the Matter of:
l 2!
IE TMI INVESTIGATION INTERVIEW 3
of Ronald B. Evans, Senior Radiation Chemistry Technician M
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Trailer #203 9i NRC Investigation Site TMI Nuclear Pcwer Plant 10f Middletown, Pennsylvania 11!
May 3, 1979 12l
. (Date of Interview)
I 13l June 22, 1979 (Date Transcript Typec) 113 ISI (Tape Numcer(s))
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fDD80$Y 17t i
1Si 191 20l 21; NRC PERSONNEL:
22!
Gregory Yuhas i
John Sinclair 23i 24!
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l lj YUHAS:
The time is 10:15.
The date is May 3, 1979.
This is an interview of Mr. Ronald B. Evans an employee of the Metropolitan 2
Edison Company whose title is Senior Rad Chem Technician.
This interview 3
y is being conducted at the Three Mile Island Nuclear site in Trailer 203 by Gregory P. Yuhas, a radiation specialist from the U.S. NRC Region I si office.
Prior to the interview Mr. Evans was provided a copy of the standard statements to which three questions he replied.
I am going 7
I to read these questions now and Mr. Evans if you'd answer them again 8!
for us.
9 10J YUHAS:
Do you understand the above docchant?
11; i
12f i
EVANS:
Yes, I do.
13) 14i YUHAS:
Do we have your permission to take this interview?
15i ISi j
EVANS:
Yes, you do.
17l 181 YUHAS:
Do you want a copy of the tape?
191 20 f
EVANS:
Yes, I'd like one.
21l l
22' YUHAS:
We will provide a copy of the tape.
23 24!
25!
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2 YUHAS:
1, Mr. Evans, before we start on the actual chronology of events, 2
would provide us with a brief synopsis of your experience... educational, I
3 and with Metropolitian Edison in your field.
4{
EVANS:
5 I am a high school graduate; one year of college, incomplete, 6i I started with Metropolitan Edison back in June 3, 1969.
I became a Aux operator then a control room operator.
I was then sent t'o Lynchburg, 7
Penn State and Alliance Ohio Research Center.
Some of these as an 8
operator and some of these as'a radiation chemistry technician.
g 101 YUHAS:
Were you a senior or licensed operator in any point?
I 12l EVANS:
I dropped out of operations right about the time she went commercial.
14!
15i YUHAS:
Ok.
So, you are refering to Unit l?
i 17l EVANS:
Unit 1, Yes 181 19i YUHAS:
B&W Lynchburg, was that the water chemistry school?
20l i
21l EVANS:
No, this was the simulator trainer.
22' h
23' YUHAS:
Did you go to the B&W Water Chemistry School?
24 25:
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i gj EVANS:
In Alliance, Ohio, yes.
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YUHAS:
Has the company provided you with any classroom or formal health physics instructions?
5{
EVANS:
I'd say the most health physics instruction I had was when I 6
was in operations about five years ago.
Now, we have normally a 7
1 scheduled training week. We get virtually no training on a training 8
week.
There has been a lot of complaints by us about this but there g
I has been virtually nothing done.
10l 11f YUHAS:
Is there a scheduled training program in addition to the sixth 12!
shift or training week?
14l 8
EVANS:
There is a few surveillances and Tech Spec items that have to 15!
be covered under training and they are covered but it is not what you 16i would really call a decent training program.
17!
18{
YUHAS:
What specifically is covered?
19i 20'
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EVANS:
Merely anything written up by the NRC or anything that we 21' would have to know, not much beyond that.
I will give them credit for 22' the water chemistry course in Alliance, but the usual excuse for it 23 is, and they might be right.
It is the amount of people they have in 241 l
the department per the amount of time they have for training.
Like we 25i N
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y are running two units with four people on a shift for chemistry and HP both.
31 YUHAS:
The way this interview will go is I am going lto have you to go
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through a chronology of your involvement in the incident.
Then I will el l
come back and ask you some questions about things you have brought up.
61 At the end of that then I will give you the opportunity to talk about i
71 i
some chronic recurrent problems that you see within the helath physics 8!
or chemistry department. We will go into that in a little detail.
At this point I would like you to go ahead and startoff by picking up about ' low you got involved in the incident on the 28th and we will i
just work our way right through it.
12!
13 EVANS:
I want to start on the 27th.
We worked from 3 to ll; a normal 14!
shift.
We were very busy on that shift.
A lot more busy than we are 15i now.
Even in the face of what happened. We went home and the next 16i day when I was shopping I started pi'cking up little rumors in supermarket 173 and things, something had happened down there.
One of the guys that I 181 work with called me when I got home from shopping and told me something big happened at work.
Okay, when we came to work at three o' clock 20f that afternoon, Gordon Rider and I were assigned to the offsite monitoring 21!
team.
We were out taking dose rates and air samples at various places 22f until about probably seven o' clock that evening of the 28th.
Then we 23l j
came into the plant and we found out that there was a need for the 24j j
water sample in Unit 2 Aux Building. It looked like they were hemming 25!
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and hawing about getting it and not knowing who was going to get it.
There was a need to change the stack monitor in Unit 2 as far as the 2
i 3l iodine cartridge.
cordon aider and I went and changed these.
We had I
a lot of trouble finding equipment and everything but we pieced together what we could. We find a couple of Scott Airpacks up in the machine gj shop. We went over into Unit 2 Aux Building and he got the water Gi sample, I got the charcoal filter.
On the next day, when I left that night, at about three o' clock in the morning I was asked what time I 8l could come back the next day. It was our normal-off schedule day.
I 9l i
says, well, I would back come whenever I could or if they needed me.
101 I was told that it looked like everything was over at that time.
So 111 i
the next day I didn't come into work.
The following day, I come in 12!
from 11 to 7.
Well, I come out at 7 o' clock that evening.
That first 131 night at seven in the evening we spent 12 hours1.388889e-4 days <br />0.00333 hours <br />1.984127e-5 weeks <br />4.566e-6 months <br /> doing on-site monitoring.
15i YUHAS:
Let me clarify the first night you mean back to the 28th?
16i I
17l 1
EVANS:
No, No.
IS!
19l YUHAS:
On the 30th?
20!
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21!
EVANS:
I am on to the 30th.
22l I
23 YUHAS:
Which would have been Friday?
24 25 t
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6 EVANS:
Friday, yes, seven o' clock on Friday until seven o' clock-1!
2 Saturday morning.
I 3l 4j YUHAS:
Seven a.m. to 7 a.m.?
6l 6l EVANS:
Seven p.m. until 7 a.m.
Twelve hours shift.
i 7
YUHAS:
You said you did on-site monitoring?
g 9l EVANS:
Right.
11!
YUHAS:
Was that exterior to the building or E
I 13l 14l!
EVANS:
Exterior to the building around the perimeter.
151 YUHAS:
That's fine.
Now we are going to go back and work our way through step by step. We are going to pause for a second.
18 SINCLAIR:
At this time I have just entered the room.
My name is John 19I Sinclair.
I am with the Office of Inspector Monitor U.S. Nuclear 20i i
Regulatory Commission, Washington, DC.
I will be running the tape 21]
machine for the remainder of the interview.
23 YUHAS:
Sorry about the interruption.
We will continue now.
We are 24 going to go back and start the scenario.
Who called you? You mentioned 25!
l someone called you a fellow worker. Was that Gordon Rider?
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l EVANS:
It was Joe Hipple.
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I YUHAS:
Joe Hipple called you.
And you and Rider went in together the 31 night of the 28th at 3 p.m. in the afternoon?
i 51 EVANS:
Yes, we came in, it happened to be he was in front of me as we came down the road.
It just happened that way and when we got there we were sent out together to replace a team because we arrived at about the same time.
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10 i YUHAS:
Do you recollect who you reported to when you got in that ut night?
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EVANS:
I believe it was Pete Velez.
14!
15 l
YUHAS:
Was this at the observation center?
16l t
17f EV NS:
Yes, it was 18j 19i YUHAS:
Did he send you out to relieve a specific team, a bravo team 20l i
and a alpha team? Any designation to it?
21l 22 EVANS:
It was bravo team.
23 24 25; t
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i YUHAS:
Who was the bravo team comprized of when you relieved them?
2l EVANS:
Ed Egenrider at the time and Jim Dupes.
3 4
YUHAS:
What sector was bravo team work on?
6{
EVANS: We relieved them right outside the North gate.
Right at 7
Bucklock's door.
8 SI YUHAS:
What instrumentation did they turn over to you?
10 llI EVANS:
They turned over an E-520, a SAM-2, an air sampler, a power 12 invertor, a pickup truck, smears, and the normal offsite kit with 13 smears paper, pencils, pens.
14l 15i YUHAS:
What was the turnover that they provided you?
16l 17 EVANS: They showed us what samples they took, what kind of log they 18!
were keeping, told us a few places they had been the last couple of 191 l
places they were, about which way the wind was going or had been going 20j for them during the day.
They gave us a pretty decent turnover.
21!
22 YUHAS:
At this point did they indicate to you that there had been 23 l
some substantive releases from the plant?
241
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i EVANS:
Yeah, they did.
They were getting iodine counts on the Sam-2.
2:
YUHAS:
Did they give you a brief description or any information as to what was happening at Unit 2?
41 l
51 EVANS:
Very brief.
We still didn't understand exactly.
In fact, it 61 i
took a few days to really find out the extent of what was going on.
7 8
YUHAS:
After you relieved these two fellows where did you head out 9
for?
10l 11!
j EVANS:
I think the first place we went was up to, I believe, it was 12!
North Cumberland School in Royalton.
13 14 YUHAS:
Were you getting any readings at that time?
15i 16i EVANS:
No, we weren't picking up any dose rate readings at the time 17f' out there.
18l 19!
YUHAS:
Did you coliect any air samples?
20l 21l i
EVANS:
Yeah, about three I would say and within the next couple of 221 hours0.00256 days <br />0.0614 hours <br />3.654101e-4 weeks <br />8.40905e-5 months <br />.
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7l YUHAS:
Did you experience any difficulty in counting these air samples?
I 2l EVANS:
No, we weren't, there was a little bit of conjecture about I
whether the SAM-2 was giving us what it may be giving the other people we turned the samples over to and the samples were kept and were sent St I
into the NRC, I believe.
61 l
7!
YUHAS: Had you been previously trained to operate the SAM-2?
i 9l EVANS:
Not as well as I would like to have been.
Yes, we did go 10!
over, I remember, in about a two hour session I'd say about a year 11l l
ago, a year and a half ago.
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131 2
YUHAS:
Prior to this assignment had you ever counted an air sample on 14i the SAM-2 instrument?
16l EVANS:
Not an air sample with anything in it.
We mocked through, i
17i okay, I remember counting just blank charcoal cartridges but I will 18t say, it was simulated as a real experience.
It may have been added a 19!
little more reality to it, you know, to be better training, but I 20!
cannot knock the type of training inasmuch as the extent.
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22 YUHAS:
The three air samples that you took, when you counted them was 23l l
there any background radiation significant?
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i 11 EVANS:
Yeah, we did count a background before we counted the samples each time.
2!
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YUHAS:
What kind of counts per minute did you get, do you remember?
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,l EVANS:
This I can't remember.
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7 YUHAS:
Were they high or low?
9l l
EVAN3:
It was substantial.
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11:
YUHAS: Was it such that you could read it on the E520?
121 13 EVANS:
No, we had no dose rate in the pieces we went.
The whole 14l situation didn't look as important as it was at the time, because we 15i weren't getting a dose rate out there.
16 t
171' YUHAS:
Now you were at this time, you were in radio communications 181 with the observation center?
19i 20l 1
EVANS:
Yes.
21l 22l I
YUHAS:
Do you know who was directing your mort;?
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1l EVANS:
I can't remember at that time who was in there, it might even have been a couple of people switching on and off.
2 31 YUHAS: Who appraised you of the need to collect water samples or gl filter cartridges in Unit 2 Auxiliary Building?
61 EVANS:
This was when we went in that first night, it was knowledge that there was water on the floor and that somebody was going to go 81, get samples and also that the charcoal cartridge had to be changed.
91 So we walked into the control room and another one of my guys was 10j standing there and I said I am going to go get the charcoal cartridge ll{
and Gordy said I am going to get the water sample and somebody said no 12!
I am going to get that and I said you know forget it we're getting it, 13l we're going. We turned around and walked out, because you could see 14!
the delays in people figuring out who was going to do what at the 15l time.
It was better we felt to go and do what we were going to do 16i instead of standing there and doing it hours later.
17j 18r YUHAS:
Can we go back a little bit, last we had you, your were on the 191 environmental survey team and next thing we know you are in the control 20; room.
How did that come about?
21l 22l EVANS: Well, we stopped at the observation center, I'd say about 23 l
6:30, 7:00, 7:30 someplace in there and we were told to report into 24!
the plant.
I don't know who took over on the outside but we were 25l gb i
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l lj getting a lot of people.from different plants, that they felt they i
w uld be handling these jobs, I guess because they would know the 2
roads with a map probably better than they would know what was behind 31 a door in the plant.
I could see some reasoning to that.
4 5
YUHAS:
Who directed you to the control room then?
6,1 i
7!
EVANS:
I think that was Pete Velez too.
9 YUHAS:
Can you describe the atmosphere in the Unit 2 control room when you arrived?
11!
i 12!
EVANS:
We went to Unit 1 control room.
The ECS had been in Unit 2 13 i
control room the way I understand it, by the time we got in there it 14!
l was moved over to Unit 1.
15i 16!
YUHAS:
Can you describe the atmosphere in Unit 1 as to who was there, 17l who was giving orders, who was taking orders,'that sort of thing?
l 19!
EVANS:
Tom Mulleavy was there, Bev Good was there, as ECS.
Now some 20j of this I can't say with certainty, because some of this I may get 21l mixed up with succeeding days, you know imagining walking in and then r
22I seeing who was there, but I would say there was quite a few people 23 there.
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YUHAS:
Now, when you and Gordon decided you were going to take the samples, who did you inform that you were going to do it?
3l EVANS:
Everybody in the control room knew it, when we walked in and i
told them because we told them right in the control room.
5l 61 YUHAS:
You essentially announced it to Mulleavy and staff.
8 EVANS:
Right.
i 10i I
YUHAS: What was their response?
11!
12!
EVANS:
They were in agreement.
13,[
14!
YUHAS:
Who had determined the need to collect both the water sample 15i and change the, I assume we are talking about HPR-219.
1 61 t
17!
EVANS:
Yeah, I was told that HPR-219, it was the NRC that wanted that 181 sample.
The water sample, I am not sure who wanted it because things 19!
filter down through you.
One person can say something, it goes to 201 l
another, goes to another, and pretty soon it looks like everybody's 21!
22l.-
idea, you know, everybody jumps in on you know, well I think it is a l
gooo idea.
So I am not sure about the water sample, but I feel pretty 23 i
sure it was the iodine sample that the NRC wanted.
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YUHAS:
This was the iodine cartridge off of HPR-219?
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EVANS:
Right.
31 1
4!
YUHAS:
Okay.
Now, did you and Mr. Gordon get a RWP to make this 51 l
entry?
Si 7
EVANS:
No.
8 9'
YUHAS:
Okay.
What precautions did you discuss it, did you review survey data prior to going down?
12, EVANS:
There was no survey data at the time.
13 t
14!
YUHAS:
How did you know what sort of things you were going to be 15; getting into?
16i 17l l
EVANS:
We didn't, what we did, we went down, we got coveralls, wetsuits, i
18l j
Scott Airpacks, we dressed maximum at the time what we thought was 191 l
maximum, went in with teletectors, with the idea that if either one of 20l:
us hit something that was, looked like it was going to be too much, 21!
that we would turn around, if either guy experienced trouble, we'd 22 turn around and come out.
We split for a couple of minutes there, 23 when one went down, the other went up, but we knew where the other one 24 was and we came back out.
We were contaminated to some extent.
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16 YUHAS:
Okay.
Let's go back a little bit again, was there a control 1.
p int watch station at the entrance to the Unit 2 Auxiliary Building?
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31 1y EVANS:
There was nothing at that time.
l 5
YUHAS:
Were any of the doors locked, so as to restrict access, did Si the shift supervisor issue you a key so you could get into the Auxiliary 7
"9 8
9 EVANS:
There was no doors locked.
I u!
YUHAS:
Was there a security person having direct surveillance of the 12!
accesses?
13 141 EVANS:
I don't think one could have been there.
151 16 i
YUHAS:
You are giving me the impression that essentially anyone that 17,!
wanted to could have gone into the Unit 2 Auxiliary Building on the IS!
night of 28th?
191 201 i
EVANS:
I am saying to get to Unit 2 Auxiliary Building we had to go 21!
i through an area where we wore full face particulate, but in fact it 22f should have been the Scott Airpack.
Where we changed into Scott 23 Airpack, we went into an area where now they are using two pair of 2 41 l
paper plastic coveralls and a wetsuit and a Scott Airpack, where we 25l i
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y went in with coveralls and wetsuit and a Scott Air"ack.
We could not find equipment, as far as we had to scrounge.
Scott Airpacks, we had l
to come up with pieces of wetsuits to... both of us went in there 31 i
with no hoods.
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YUHAS:
Did you consult with Dubiel or anybody in the Unit 2 control 61 i
room prior to going in?
71, 8
EVANS:
There was nobody in Unit 2 control room at this time.
10i YUHA :
So there was not a desk set up in the Unit 2 control room with 11j i
HP techs at it?
12f l
131 EVANS:
As far as I know and remember at that time there was nobody in 141 Unit 2 at that time.
15, 16i
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YUHAS:
So there was no survey data to warn you of the condition?
17!
18i EVANS:
We were the initial survey data.
20I j
YUHAS:
Were you aware that any other entires had been made prior to 21l yours during the day?
22 23 EVANS:
I only suspected that there might have been another entry into 24 HPR-219 when I was after the charcoal cartridge but I was going to get 25{
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t 18 the particulate cartridge too.
The particulate filter, it wasn't
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there, it was missing.
Then It looked like somebody had changed it, 2
I but I don't know if they changed it.
It looked like they changed it y
in a hurry early in the morning a few hours before. I was pretty sure nobody had been there for hours because of the way it seemed it had to
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how are we going to do it.
I think each one of the techs you talk to, you will find that they had been in on one or two jobs like this.
8l YUHAS: Was the shift supervisor or the emergency coordin'ator aware 10f I
that you and Rider would be gcing in?
11!
i 12l EVANS:
I'm sure they were.
13 l
14!
YUHAS:
Did he direct you to go in?
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EVANS:
No, to the best of my recollection, they agreed on us going in after we said we were going in, 181 191 YUHAS:
Now, we will pick it up again, you and Rider are both dress d 20l l
you've got a Scott Airpack on.
What sort of dosimetry are you wearing?
21l 22 EVANS:
0 to 200 and 0 to SR high range dosimeter, both TLDs, that's 23 it.
24 25
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1;!
YUHAS:
The entry point into the Unit 2 Auxiliary Building on the 305
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elevation...
specifically how did you go in?
31 EVANS:
From the outside door, in the walkway between Unit 1 and 41 5l Unit 2, down the hall, in through around the HP office the normal way, in through the Aux Building door, and we got in there and then we 61 split.
I went upstairs, he went downstairs, if we didn't find the 71 other guy when we came down, we were to look for the other person, if either one hit anything they were to turn and go with the other one.
9l 10l l
YUHAS:
As you went through the corridor, down across the 305 elevation, 11!
j what sort of radiation readings were you getting?
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13; i
EVANS:
Once again now, I am relying on memory after you know.
It's, 14; I think, as we were going in it stayed fairly low, coming around the 15i corner there by the HP lab I think it was around 2 R, going into the 16; building I'd say it.was 10 to 15 R, and I was not taking my time to 17!
I look at the meter, okay, when I laid the teletector on the floor to 18l pull the sample.
19i 20i
. YUHAS:
Now, this is after you have gone up to the 328 elevation?
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22 EVANS:
Yeah, right.
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YUHAS:
Okay, now what kind of dose rates did you have on the 328?
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l EVANS:
It was about 50 R, 70 R.
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YUHAS:
Now, are these whole body numbers?
31 l
Gi EVANS:
These are whole body numbers.
81 YUHAS:
As measured with a teletector?
9 10(
EVANS:
As measured with a teletector.
11; 12.
YUHAS:
Okay, and you were over by HPR-219?
13 14!
EVANS:
Ummhmm. Yes.
15i 16i YUHAS:
Did you note or was it possible you for quickly discerned what 17 l
the source of this high dose rate was?
18l 19f E_V'.15 :
I believed because of the way it picked up it looked like 20 xenon in the air.
It looked like air activity, being that high.'
21, 22 YUHAS:
So that you had a fairly uniform field it did not drop off 23<
l when moved toward the floor or towards the...
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21 I
j EVANS:
Nope.
Fairly uniform and it seemed to increase as you went up, as you went up the stairs.
3 YUHAS:
Are there like decay heat pipes or other pipes that might have been hot in the overhead of the 328?
i Si I
6l EVANS:
Not that I know of.
No.
7 8
YUHAS:
Are there other monitors in the same vicinity as HPR-219?
i 10 EVANS:
Yeah.
11l 121 YUHAS:
Could you describe those monitors, please?
13 14!
EVANS:
I don't want to give you numbers because I can't get them 15i right.
16i l
17!
l YUHAS:
No just verbally.
181 19f EVANS:
Oh they are the same as HPR-219.
' hey are particulate gas and 20l l
charcoal filter.
21l 22 YUHAS:
Was the lineup of HPR-219 they way it normally is, was the 23 pump running, was the valves in proper position, the covers closed, 24 thumbscrews tight, that sort of thing?
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22 EVANS:
It seemed to be.
y 21 I
YUHAS: Okay.
31 4j.
EVANS:
I mean I hit this.
I went in, went up the stairs, dropped the 5
meter, pulled the cartridge, threw it in plastic, wrapped it in a lead 6i blanket, okay, saw that the holder for the particulate fell to the fl r with nothing in it okay, slammed another cartridge in it, turned 81 around and got out.
Neither one of us took any extra time than we had to.
10l 1 11 l
YUHAS:
Now the particulate filter was missing from HPR-219 and you 12l did not replace it?
13 l
14)
EVANS:
No.
15i 16!
l YUHAS:
BecaLse your intent was only to change the charcoal.
17l 18{
EVANS:
The charcoal.
Well, I would have p t, I would have changed 19i l
the particulate too if it had been there, but there is a holder in 20t there that was missing.
There was no way that I could change that 21 without looking on the floor digging, you know under instruments or 22 something, spending a couple minutes looking for the part that I was 23 missing.
24 25 l
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j 23 YUHAS:
So HPR-219 is not a moving paper filter?
l 2:
EVANS:
No.
3 4
YUHAS:
Did you check the dose rate on the charcoal filter housing g
I before you opened the thumbscrews and removed it.
6l 7
EVANS:
No, I didn't.
g 9
s l
YUHAS:
You said you wrapped it in a lead brack, excuse me, you wrapped 10
)
it in a lead blanket, what type of lead blanket was this, one of those 11 l
polyethylene coated lead shot and fiber?
12 1
13 l
EVANS:
It was lead fiber, polyethylene coated lead fiber, yeah.
14!
15i YUHAS:
And then you picked it up from there, wrapped it up and carried 16l it, did you take any other readings on the way out?
17 i
18l EVANS:
No.
19j i
2ui YUHAS:
We have got you with a charcoal cartridge wrapped in a lead j
21 1
blanket in one hand and the teletector and you came down the ladder by 22 the elevator or the stairway by the elevator?
23 24 25I l
b[
,.g
I 24 EVANS:
No, the other stairway.
I 2!
I YUHAS:
And back to the 305 elevation right?
31 l
4l EVANS:
Ummhmm.
5 l
61 YUHAS:
Did you meet Gordon Rider there?
SI EVANS:
Yes, I think I did.
I can't remember where I met hini.
9l l
i 10l 11l YUHAS:
He didn t come up to the 328 though?
l l
121 EVANS:
No, no, I met him down there, yeah.
13 I
141 YUHAS:
And the two of you then came out of the Auxiliary Building?
15:
16I l
EVANS:
Right.
17!
l 181 YUHAS:
Did Mr. Rider have anything in his hand?
19i I
201 i
EVANS:
Yeah, he had a sample bottle.
21}
i 22l' YUHAS:
Did he communicate any information to you?
23l 24' 25i 1
@g J
r I
i 25 6
i 7f EVANS:
Only, I remember, we took a dose rate on the sample, and I 2f can't remember what it was but it was nothing that was going to alarm us after what we just were in and we went out changed, went over to 3
Unit 1 and put everything in a box, wrapped it up in lead to wait until it was shipped to, I assume it was going to you guys.
5 I
61 YUHAS:
Now the totally elapsed time from when you entered the Auxiliary Building 'til you came out with the samples was about how long?
8l 9!
I EVANS:
I'd say something like probably 3 to 5 minutes.
I had 10j better than half a bottle left when I came out, I was taking stairs ll!
two at a time so I was using air.
I didn't spend any extra time doing 12!
anything than I had to.
Okay. So it was a pretty short time.
13l l
14!
YUHAS:
So now you and Mr. Rider proceed back to the Unit 1 chem HP 151 area?
16i 17!
EVANS:
Ummhmm.
181 19l YUHAS:
And you wrapped the HPR-219 cartridge?
20t 21l EVANS:
Ummhmm.
22 i
23l i
YUHAS:
And you said you put in a box?
24j 251 i
t i
t
{
26 EVANS:
Ummhmm.
y 2'
YUHAS:
Is this the standard sample storage shield or something else?
3 4!
sl EVANS:
No, this was a cardboard box with a little bit of lead around it at the time.
Now we could not even get into the Unit 1 HP area, 6i this is out in the turbine floor on the ground floor of the turbine "9'
8 9l l
YUHAS:
Okay.
So you wrapped this HPR-219 cartridge in lead, put in a 101 cardboard box and it is sitting on the turbine building somewhere, 11!
right?
12!
13 EVANS:
Ummhmm.
14!
151 YUHAS:
Okay, what about the water sample?
16i 17l EVANS:
That was in the same box, wrapped up in more laad, sitting in 181 the same box.
19j 20 YUHAS:
Now, I imagine at this time you must have taken a dose rate on 21]
the box, right?
22 1
23 EVANS:
Yeah.
24 25, l
gSS
i 1
i.
27 ilj YUHAS:
Do you remember what you had?
2 EVANS:
No, I don't because we had it shielded pretty good in lead 3
too. We knew... one of stayed and watched the box, while somebody 5l went up and told them that we had the sample there.
One of us would stay with the box until somebody came to pick it up, which is about el fifteen minutes.
8 YUHAS:
So you got out of your Scott Airpack right then?
101 I
EVANS: We got out back as we came out of Unit 2.
11!
12!
i YUHAS:
Okay, and you left it there?
131 14!
EVANS:
Ummhmm.
15i 16i YUHAS:
When did you survey yourself?
17l 18i EVANS:
As soon as we got rid of tae box.
I knew that our hair would 19!
be contaminated, so I didn't, like, we did have to wait awhile before 201 somebody came down and picked uj the box.
I did not like that.
21{
22lI YUHAS:
Now who picked it the box?
231 24l 25i 6h
^
\\
l 4
?
i 28 I
1l EVANS:
Another one of our techs.
i 2'
YUHAS:
Do you remember who it was?
31 I
4!
EVANS:
No I don't.
5 61 YUHAS:
Do you remember the intended disposition of the box?
7 8
i EVANS:
He was told where to take it.
I do think both samples went to different places, if I remember what he was told.
But I was interested 10l I
mainly in getting rid of the box, getting ourselves straig'tened out, 11!
I which we didn't have too much trouble doing.
12l
{
131 I
YUHAS:
Now, you got rid of the box, you and Mr. Rider went and surveyed 14:
l yourself for contamination somewhere, where was that?
15i 16i i
EVANS:
Well, right in the control room, I went up to the control room 17l and I could probably get a 100 mR off my hair, and when I came down I 181 told him, he was in the same condition.
I cm sure he checked and l
found the same thing to be true, but it came off with one good shampoo.
20!
i 21 YUHAS:
So then you hair was really the only thing that was exposed 22ll because you couldn't find hoods?
23 24 25
i 29 l
1l EVANS:
Right, we thought we had hoods until we started tearing things apart over there.
2 I
i 3!
[
YUHAS: Was Mr. Rider's hair the only thing that was contaminated on S:
his body?
i i
6{
/
EVANS:
Ummhmm.
8j YUHAS:
So both of you were deconned within a matter of an hour?
9l 10f i
EVANS:
Oh yeah, we... it surpriseo me to find out some other 11{
people had so much trouble getting their hair cleaned, you know, 12l because it wasn't any trouble at all for us.
14 i
YUHAS:
What did your pocket dosimeters read?
15, 16' f
EVANS:
I had something on the order of 870 on the high range dosimeter, you couldn't read it that close, but the TLD proved to be 870.
Gordon 18j was about the same thing, I think he was in the 6 to 700 range.
19i 20f l
YUHAS:
Did you and Mr. Rider wear extremity monitoring when you went 21!
in to do this?
22l t
23l l
EVANS:
No.
24 25l g55 [
i i
l i
l
I
{
30 YUHAS:
7, Was extremity monitoring available in the form of finger rings i
2{
r something equivalent?
I 3t i
EVANS:
41 Probably with a delay of quite sometime.
I am sure if I had felt for sure that extremity monitoring would have been a lot beneficial 5
to us I would have used somebody's TLD that wasn't there and have it read, have it re-xerced for the man.
But I thought in the kind of 7
field that we got into, all parts of us were getting about the same 8
thing anyway.
g 10i YUHAS:
I am curious that do you feel the same thing applies to the 11:
water sample?
12l 13 EVANS:
I believe so.
151 YUHAS:
All right, so, after you got deconned I assume you went back 16i to the control room. Is that right?
17j 181 EVANS:
Ummhmm.
19' 20i YUHAS:
Unit 1 control room.
What was you next assignment that evening?
21l 22 EVANS:
The next assignment was merely counting air samples that were 23 being taken in the Unit 1 control room, and we did that for a while, 24 plus any little odd job.o run here, get this, run there to get this, 25j i
855 304
31 l
yl anything that was assigned to us, and toward the end of the night I 2.
told people that the unnecessary people up there shouldn't be there because I had 15 mR on an open window reading on an R02 and you know 3
i 4j longer could count anything, we had xenon gas in Unit 1 control room.
1 5
YUHAS:
Now what were you using to count the samples with?
6 7
8
--EVANS:
A Ludlum.
l 91 1
i YUHAS:
This is witn an HP 210 probe?
10 11!
EVANS:
Ummhmm.
12!
I 13l i
YUHAS:
Did you go in and look at the area radiation monitoring panel 14!
in this period of time to see if the samples correlated with the 15j particulate iodine or noble gas monitor for the Unit 1 control room?
16i 17!
EVANS:
No, we didn't.
I didn't.
IS{
19i YUHAS:
Do you kr.ow if Mr. Mulleavy or anyone else did?
20l 21!
l EVANS:
I don't know if they did.
I assumed that they did.
22l 23 YUHAS:
We are going to break the tape now to turn it over.
24 8
o 9
i
f r
32 l
I YUHAS:
This is a continuation of the interview with Mr. Ronald 8. Evans.
The time is 10:53.
Mr. Evans, let's just for a moment talk about the type of instrumentation you were using to make the survey. You said it was a teletector, is that right?
l Si l
EVANS:
Right.
Si 7
YUHAS:
Do you remember what range you were on when you were up on the 8
328 collecting the HPR-219 sample?
9l I
10 EVANS:
I am pretty sure I was on a 1,000 R scale.
ul I
12!
l YUHAS:
What reinforces in your idea that you were pretty sure that 13l you were on the 1,000 R scale?
14!
15i EVANS:
It's just to the best of my recollection.
I think I was.
16l t
17l i
YUHAS:
You mentioned that you thought the field was due to gaseous 18l l
xenon in the air.
Do you know what xenon decays by?
191 20 EVANS:
I'couldn't go through the decay scheme.
21 22 1 YUHAS:
Well, let's just say, let's assume it was all xenon-133 are 23 you retcotely familiar with what energy xenon-133 decays by?
i i
25j i
i gSS I
33 EVANS:
Ummhmm.
tl!
l 2
YUHAS:
How would you expect the teletector or for that matter most 3
GM tubes to respond to 80 kev gamma rays?
I SI EVANS: Well it would depend too... as far as the... I don't Gi really know how to answer that.
Ok.
81 YUHAS:
Fine.
No problem.
Okay.
We are back in the control room.
i 91 i
You were counting samples with the HP 210 probe'and Ludlum.
Okay.
101 i
The open window reading went up to 15 millirem per hour, you said you 1 11 l
expressed your concern about the number of excess people in the control 12 room, to whom did you express this concern?
131 t
14l l
EVANS:
Tom Mulleavy, Len Landry, Bev Good.
15!
16!
YUHAS:
And the result that you got?
17 181 EVANS:
Some people left.
19i 20l l
YUHAS:
Was there an announcement made for unnecessary personnel to 21!
i leave the Unit 1 control room?
22 23 EVANS:
Everybody was in one room, they didn't have to announce it.
2 41 They were aware that the level was coming up.
25!
g5<'a al V
i l
i f
34 I
YUHAS:
Was anyone IN respiratory protective devices?
l 2;
EVANS:
At the time, no.
At the time when everybody left right after I told them that, I left too with Bev Good, with Gordon Rider, and 4l t
there was nobody in full face particulate at the time we left.
6i YUHAS:
Did you feel there was any need for respiratory protection?
8 EVANS:
Yes, at that time, yes.
9 10{
l YUHAS:
What sort of respiratory protection was available?
lli 12l EVANS:
I can't remember if at that time everybody was carrying a 13 l
respirator. Around that time, sometime around that time, everybody 141 was carrying a respirator but I can't remember if everybody had one at 15j that time.
16; i
17' YUHAS:
The item of concern is were the respirator cartridges merely 18i particulate or were they the combined non-approved iodine?
191 20I tVANS:
At the time they were particulate.
21l; 22I YUHAS:
You indicate that you left with several people, right?
23 24l 25 f
98 )@
i
35 i
[
EVANS:. Ummhmm.
2 YUHAS:
Okay, where did you go to?
3 l
4!
EVANS:
To the observation center.
El I
6l YUHAS:
About what time in the evening was this?
8 EVANS:
About midnight.
10j i
YUHAS: Was there any NRC personnel in the Unit 1 control room during 11!
this period of time that you were there?
13 EVANS:
I wouldn't have recognized them at the time.
14l l
15 YUHAS: When you got out to the observation center what duties did you 16; assume then?
17l l
181' EVANS:
We didn't really dc much of anything for the next two hours.
191 l
We thought we'd be sent out on one team or another but we didn't do I
'20 much of anything.
21, 22 YUHAS:
Did you leave for home from the observation center that evening?
23 24 25i I
l gSS j
I
{
4 36 i
EVANS:
Yes.
7 2i YUHAS:
You left about 11 then?
3 l
4{
EVANS:
No, we left at... well we got to the observation center at 3
about 12 and we left at about two o' clock in the morning.
7 YUHAS:
So, in a period from 12 to 2 in the morning you sort of just 81 observed in the observations center?
9 10l EVANS:
No, we didn't do anything to speak of.
I can't say we went 11{
here or did this, or you know.
121 13 YUHAS:
Can you describe what was going on in the observation center?
i 14!
f ISi EVANS:
They had an area set up there more or less as a secondary ECS 16!
j and they were relaying calls.
They had a lot people in a little think 17}1 tank tnere.
It wasn't something I was invited to sit in on.
18l i
19l j
YUHAS:
Now, you took the next day off.
Is that correct?
20:
1 21) i EVANS:
Uh ha.
22 I
i 23l YUHAS:
And then you came in the evening of the 30th?
24 25:
g l
a c
(
{
f
I i
{
37 l
EVANS:
Uh ha, right.
1 l
2!
i 3f YUHAS:
How did you come in? Did you check in at the observation 4
center or did you go to the north gate?
5l EVANS:
No, I went to the observation center.
I saw you could'nt go O!
-to the North gate.
I went to the observation center, parked there and 7
I'm n t positive but, I think, it was Pet Velez assigned a Dale Janes 8
from QC and myself to use the the HP van and come in and do the perimeter 9
of the Island, to be the onsite monitor.
t 10t 11!
YUHAS:
What equipment did you have in that?
12l l
13l EVANS:
Oh, we had an invertor again, an air sampler, charcoal filters, 14!
15ll a normal off-site emergency type kit, and an E-520 with a full length open window; a slide to cover on the window.
I 17l YUHAS:
You continued to do these surveys throughout the evening?
18l 19i
)
EVANS:
Uh ha.
20' 21 YUHAS:
We are going to interrupt for a minute.
22 23 l
YUHAS:
The evening of the 30th, this would run from evening to day 24 shift on the 31st right?
25 S
l
. qp I
l 1
l l
38 EVANS:
y Seven at night until seven in the morning.
2' i
3l YUHAS:
Ok, fine.
What were your findings that evening in general?
4 g;
EVANS:
I think the highest dose rate that I had.
Now this is something
-l wu n wan a
a u, was 65 mR open window and about 6, 5, 6
or about a tenth, closed window.
We rode around a periphery, oh, 7
maybe about 10 or 15 times that night.
I had the feeling that nobody really cared that we were doing it, because there was a couple of g
teams doing it.
I was very happy in the morning when an NRC man 10j walked up to me and asked me for my results.
I felt like at least 11!
somebody cared.
You see?
12f I
13l YUHAS:
Haven't you been phoning these in?
14}
15i EVANS:
We have been phoning them in.
16i i
17i YUHAS:
Nobody was paying 181 1
19i EVANS:
Well, you know it looked like that.
In fact after a while I 20l l
started phoning just beta gamma readings because we taped probe on the 21{
outside of the truck.
We made it real convenient to get these and get 22 as many as we could and I noticed, I hear a-lot of conjection now 23l l
about these doses, whether the public got this or got that and I 241 noticed one thing that, I guess you people noticed too, that with the 25j l
3\\1 b
3 i
i
39 i
probe... the reason I gave beta gamma readings is with the probe outside, if you had 65 mR and you shielded the probe you have about 6.5 mR.
Apparently, now this is a little exaggarated, if you took 3
that probe in and sat on it or shielded it you still got about 65.
It was hardly anyway you could get rid of it unless you opened the probe 6)l and blew on it.
It looked like gas contamination was giving a good l
bit of the gamma reading, which is why I quit.
I told them, I ask-7\\
I permission to stop giving the gamma readings.
And they, ok'd it.
81 They had another team at the same time coming the other way and they i
9l were giving both readings; but everybody was giving readings with 10j thier own instruments an R02A with a 50 mR, you know, low scale.
11!
I 12l l
YUHAS:
It would not be supprising to conclude that, for instance, 13l specially the ion chambers, that with the permeable membranes in 14!
windows, that the xenon gases diffuses through, and that's what results 15; in the residual readings that you were seeing.
16i i
17f EVANS:
I had thought that it would be a little more controlled if 18i everybody was using the same instrument, that if a crew of yours or 191 something said this is what we ought to use.
This is the efficiency 20}
of it, and etc., and we should use one instrument all the time.
21f Because the readings varied between people taking them, and everybody 22' was doing the best job they could but they were getting different 23 j
reading because of different instruments.
24 25!
gSS
{
40 i
YUHAS:
Let me ask you a question.
Did you note in taking your surveys around the building if you changed the angle of that instrument that it would make a difference?
3!
4l EVANS:
No, because, after we got pretty well established in what were 5l doing, most of the reading were taken with a probe taped to the outside the truck.
7 8I YUHAS:
Ok, so you had a fixed geometry?
9l i
101 EVANS:
Right.
11l 121
(
YUHAS:
All right, you have been very helpful.
I'd like to give you a 13 few minutes to just talk generally about health physics and general problems or lack of problems with Three Mile Island.
Feel free to be 15i critical or feel to be complimentary.
16l l
17!
i EVANS: Well, I might as well say the same thing I have been saying 181 for a couple of years.
I have been down here for 10 years; I been 19i working Unit 1.
I've looked at Unit 1, I've seen its problems and 201 l
everything is starting up and it looked like a pretty good unit.
I've 21 never liked Unit 2 but the reason I never liked it was the design.
22lI You can walk through the building, and if you see a bunch of little 23-things, mish-mash, ok.
I always assumed some of the big things were 24 the same way.
25i i
'\\h I
l BSS.5
~
t u
f I
41
(
i YUHAS:
Do have any specific instances of where, let's see, poor 1
design or fabrication resulted in problems either operationally or 2;
health physics.
3l 4l EVANS:
This is something you can't very well put on a tape, but I can l
show,ou a room and, this is like many, where there is a pipe and 6i there is a vaive operator out here to go through a v3 ve on that pipe.
1 7
But the valve was put on four of them, at least, on the other side and 8
it runs through two universals.
So if a man goes in that room he's 9l gcing to have to go in there more to fix what had to be put in there 10l to keep somebody outside, cnd to do anything in the back of the room 11l j
where everything is, he has got to climb through these things.
12!
f 131 YUHAS:
Is this the makeup purification room through the five elevation 14!'
of the Auxiliary Building?
15 16i EVANS:
That's one of them.
There is quite a few of these.
Quite a 17!
j few of these things.
18l 19l YUHAS:
Are you aware of anyone who advised people who are building the plant, or management of the staff that that sort of design is 21f unnecessarily complicated to lend itself to additional exposure and 22 maintenance and operation?
23 2 41 I
25:
l
)
]
t
i l
l 42 i
yl EVANS:
I am aware of a lot of the little people.
The people that c.rk here have pointed out things like that and laughed at them.
2 I
31 YUHAS: Who do you point them out to?
5 EVANS:
You point them out to the Foreman.
They laugh along with you.
6 I am saying that plant, they have pointed out different things in that 7
plant, the way they were put together, if I could take a walk with you now through that plant, if it was wide open, I'd show you and I would 91 I
show somebody else.
And it wouldn't matter until something happened 101 and I think that's what led to what happened now.
I really believe 11l that in my heart; that if this plant was put together as in Unit 1, 12l this wouldn't have happened.
13 14!
l YUHAS:
We may take you up on your offer somewhere down the road. We 15l always reserve the right to talk to people again later on.
Especially, 16i it might be useful for us to, maybe, get a photograph, or to get to 17l some of these areas that may be accessible.
I think the area you are lSt talking about right now is in the Auxiliary Building, and somewhat 19!
incompatible for photographic tours at this time.
I think the last 20i dose rate on that door was like 67 R per hour, to the makeup purifi-21, 1
cation room.
So, I think, it might get a later date.
22 231 YUHAS:
This is a whole, I don't want to call it a theory, but if you 241 l
can show somebody block walls that are wrong, that doesn't mean anything, 25!
l I
s\\b t
2
43 t
i g
but if they are wrong, if you can show them pipe hangers that are p
wrong.
It doesn't mean anything, but they are wrong, then you can i
3h show then something put in a wall and a pipe rotted around, it's wrong, but it's bad design.
It's not hurting anything, but it is bad 4
design.
So if you show somebody enough of these little bad designs, Sj y u can assume that there is other bad designs.
To me anyway.
6 7
YUHAS:
You're talking primarily right now about the secondary systems, the peripheral syrtems, not the nuclear steam supply system, right?
9!
10l EVANS:
I think... this is only my opinion.
. that Westinghouse, 11i what they put in here war, good equipment.
They built good equipment.
12l i
B&W's equipment was good equipment.
Other peoples equipment was good 131 equipment.
Some of it maybe mismatched like you will have any place.
14i All the equipment I can't find any fault with, the people who made the 15i equipment.
It's who hooked it up.
I am not knocking the trades.
16i They hook up as it's designed.
It's who drew this mess to hook it up.
17!
l I am not Flone in this feeling.
ISI i
19i YUHAS:
Based on your experience as an operator and a control operator i
20l trainee, are you fimilar with any problems in the operation of the 21l water purification full flow purification system in Unit 2.
22 23' EVANS:
Inasmuch as in transferring resins and everything, they do get 24 blockages sometime, which it may have been one of the big factors in 25j i
l d'
I t
j 44 l
1 gj this.
The operator himself that was running the panel at the time said he wished he had stayed at the panel instead of trying to clear a 2
blockagen because then he would know what h:ppened.
Not that he was 3
at fault in any way, but he could then say, first hand, whether the pl' pump tripped first or the block caught.
You know, I
6i YUHAS:
Are you aware of previous problems with the secondary cleanup system?
8 it a chronic problem? Has it been going on for a while?
10' I
i EVANS:
Well, they have had people here from GPU and they have been 11:
primarily on their regeneration system.
That's what they are here 12!
for, working just on that regeneration system.
It had to be a problem 13l if you have a man coming down from the higher-up companies, and if you 141 have foremen just in charge of our powdex system in Unit 1.
Our Aux f
15i i
operators do that on night shift.
You're doing powdex, and he goes 16i and does it.
I never had any trouble with it.
You have little trouble, 17!
l but it is'nothing chronic like that.
18(
19!
YUHAS:
Do you have any reason to believe that there might have been 20!
foul play in terms of valve lineups, or system operation, or equipment 21l that could have either precipitated this incident or perhaps aggravated 22 the incident?
23 24
\\
i 25l S\\h i
l
.. g@
r
l 45 i
EVANS:
No, I can't imagine.
You're talking sabatoge or somebody 2l d ing something intentional, that I can't imagine anybody working in a place like this that would put it in a condition like this or...
3 Unit 2, you have a trip record of Unit 2 and we through a ball back
~
and forth.
You can catch it and I can catch it.
One of us is going 5
.l to miss it someday.
Unit 2 is down.
It's tripped a lot.
I can't go el into why it tripped each time, but it did trip a lot.
8 YUHAS:
What was the feeling among the employees why it tripped so 9!
much?
10' 1 11 l
EVANS:
If you are going to interview 'em, you ask them.
I've told 12!
you my opinion.
13 14i I
YUHAS:
You basically feel it's design, difficulty in operation due to 15!
J design.
16i 17i I
EVANS:
Yes.
181 19i YUHAS:
Do feel that the auxiliary operators were adequately trained 2u!
at Unit 2?
21!
22 EVANS:
It woula be better to ask them but I had one tell me that he 23 l
felt that he lacked training.
Now to be honest about this I tell you 241 l
I lack training. Ok.
And I was pretty highly trained as an operator.
25l
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1.
I 46
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l Now it is five... six years...
some of the stuff I can remember 11 2l.
about nuclear theory, anything, is a little old or much of it forgotten.
But, what I've got as far as the health physics training since I am 31 41' down working it, I've often told the contractors that come in that I'm Sl here to help you, you help me.
They have seen things that I haven't i
seen, and I got a pretty good relationship with a guy when you tell 6l j
him that and you can learn something.
Mos't of what I have learned out 71 I
of the ordinary came from them, or came from back in operations.
a!
9l YUHAS:
Do any other problems in health physics area come to mind?
10l 11:
EVANS:
Problems... we do have A problem where it has happened 12!
i already that people have been allocated for the job.
The money end of 13l it was there.
The people were okayed, we could hire.
- Somebody, 141 someplace, dropped the ball and the people weren't hired until the 15 money was no longer there.
It seems in this company, and this has 16i happened, if somebody leaves and it's a union man, well, we had a man 17' I
leave the union and go foreman, that job stayed open for something ISI like nine months, ten months.
It was never put up.
But where another 19j man, in supervision, and a dcmn good man, I am not saying anything 20!
about him, but when he indicated that he was going to leave, he may 21!
l leave, there is a man to fill his place before he is even gone.
We've 22' gone through days work where you've got maybe eight men working and 23 you have six to nine white hats supervision, and each one of them..
24'i if you're a supervisor, you need a man to supervise.
I've come in 1
25 l
l k__
j 47 i
at night and had the 9 or 10 people on daylight turnover everything over to the 3 or 4 people coming in.
So, I've got three or four things hanging that the guys turned over.
They have to be done and that's fine.
And had a foreman sitting there, wanting to weigh something 4l out to see what it does when you put it in this water.
He wants
]
somebody to supervise.
He also had a helper with him.
I had two bl
' foremen who wanted to play games.
While in the meantime, I'm running 7
out taking care of what the other guys dropped because they went home.
8l Which is human nature.
You can't do anything about that, but it is 91 I
not right.
10l 11; YUHAS:
Do you have any other comments?
12l i
12l EVANS:
I have nothing that comes to mind now.
Probably tomorrow I 141 will have a bunch.
That's the way the world is.
15i 16i YUHAS:
Well, we want to make you aware that we are here, and we will 17l give you a business card.
Please feel free to contact us, as we will 181 l
feel free to contact you as the investigation goes on.
I would be J
19i i
interested in taking a walk with you and seeing some specific examples 20 of what you consider to be poor engineering practices.
EVANS:
You can draw your own conclusions.
23l 24 25l l
i
s l
l 48 lj YUHAS:
Are some of these areas accessible right now?
2'I EVANS:
Not the ones I'm talking about.
3 4!
YUHAS:
Well, we will be. here for awhile and they will probably be 5l 1
accessible by the time we leave the site.
I'd like to thank you for 6
7j coming down Mr. Evans and we certainly appreciate your candid coments.
We are going to terminate this interview at 11:14.
Thank you very 8
much.
g i
101 11:
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I 131 t
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17 18i 191 201 l
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