ML19305A536
| ML19305A536 | |
| Person / Time | |
|---|---|
| Site: | Crane  |
| Issue date: | 06/28/1979 |
| From: | Mark Resner, Yuhas G NRC OFFICE OF INSPECTION & ENFORCEMENT (IE REGION I), NRC OFFICE OF INSPECTOR & AUDITOR (OIA) |
| To: | |
| References | |
| NUDOCS 7908300160 | |
| Download: ML19305A536 (30) | |
Text
-
j
- j UNITED STATES OF AMERICA J
l NUCLEAR REGULATORY COMMISSION I!
In the Matter of:
I 2!
IE TMI INVESTIGATION INTERVIEW i
3!
of Michael K. Gabner, Radiation Chemistry Technician I
4 5-l 6i i
71 i
8l
}
Trailer #203 9l NRC Investigation Site TMI Nuclear Power Plant 10!
Middletown, Pennsylvania I
ll!
May 7, 1979 12l (Date of Interview) 13 June 28, 1979 (Date Transcript Typea) 141 154 15i (Tape Numoer(s))
16l 17 18!
19 2al 4' 0 21:
NRC PERSONNEL:
22 Mark E. Resner
[ @L Gregory P. Yuhas 23'
~
24i 25f
$9 l
@6 I
l Michele 1.
2 3
4 5
6 7
8 i
9 10 11 12.
13 14 15 16 17 18.
19 20 21 22 23 24 25
l i,
I If RESNER:
The following is an interview of Mr. Michael K. Gabner.
Mr.
2 Gabner is a Radiation Chemistry Technican employed by Mepropolitan 3 :
Edison Company at Three Mile Island site.
The present time is 3:36 pm 4
Eastern Daylight Time.
The date is May 7, 1979.
This interview is 5l being conducted in trailer 203, which is located just south to the 6
south entrance of Three Mile Island site.
Present for this interview 7
are Mr. Gregory P. Yuhas.
Mr Yuhas is a Radiation Specialist employed 8
in Region I, with the U. S. Nuclear Regulatory Commission.
Moderating this interview is Mark E. Resner.
I am an investigator with the g
10 Office of Inspector and Auditor, U. S. Nuclear Regulatory Commission, 11!
Bethesda.
Prior to taping this interview, Mr. Gabner was provided with a two page document which explained the purpose, the scope and g
the authority with which we are conducting this investigation.
It 13 g
also advised Mr. Gabner that he has a right to a representative of his choice, should f.e desire one, and also that he does not have to talk P"9' 16 Mr. Gabner has signed, indicating that he does understand the document, and in addition, has answered three questions, which I will briefly 18' state for the record.
Question one.
Do you understand the above?
And Mr. Gabner has indicated yes, he does understand it.
Is that correct, Mr. Gabner?
22 GABNER:
Yes.
23 24 25 1
M) t l
l f
i
1.
RESNER:
Question two:
Do we have your presmission to tape the interview?
Mr. Gabner has checked yes, indicating that we do have his permission.
2l 31 Is that correct Mr. Gabner?
4-5 GABNER:
Yes.
6l 7
RESNER:
Question number three:
Do you want a copy of the tape? Mr.
8 Gabner has checked he does wish a copy of the tape.
It that correct Mr. Gabner?
g 10 GABNER:
Yes.
3 12-RESNER:
Okay, we will provide you with a copy of the tape.
At this y3
- time, for the benefit of those who may listen to the tape in the p
future, I will ask Mr. Gabner, if he will, to give us a brief resume of his educational experience and job experience in the nuclear field.
18 i GABNER:
My background is, I have a high school education with chemistry 19!
in high school.
I have a little training on nuclear weapons, in the Navy, and.from then I have five years experience at TMI in the rad chem tech field.
22 23 RESNER:
Okay.
Could you be a little more specific on your training in the Navy?
25 i
3 bh t
gb
s 3
GABNER:
A small amount of training on safeguards for nuclear weapons and in emergency procedures for nuclear weapons, in case of one being dropped or going off.
4 RESNER:
How long a period was that training?
6 GABNER:
A short training, usually one week at a time, over a course of four years.
8 9
RESNER:
All right, thank you Mr. Gabner.
10 11' YUHAS:
At this point, we would like to start and have you go through 12 just a scenario of your involvement at the TMI incident.
13 14 j
GABNER:
Well, I heard about the incident.
I was off schedule at 15!
l the time.
I was working 3:00 to 11:00.
I heard about it 10:30, 11:00 16' o' clock in the morning, when a friend of mine had told me... or a 17 4
fellow worker had come to the house and told me that he had heard it 18r on the radio.
He wanted to know if I had known anything about it, and i
19 I told him I hadn't even heard about it.
So I proceeded to turn on 20 the radio, listened for awhile, heard of the incident, and came to i
I 21 work about 1:00 o' clock.
I got assigned to an offsite monitoring team 22 immediately.
I worked on the offsite monitoring team for about two 23 hours2.662037e-4 days <br />0.00639 hours <br />3.80291e-5 weeks <br />8.7515e-6 months <br /> and then I got assigned to an onsite monitoring team.
Took a 24 few samples.
Took some radiation readings.
Levels weren't too high
- 25 g
f
.%cb i
l i
4 at the time.
Highest I read at any one point, was at a site boundary, 1
2 approximately 30 mR.
It was the highest reading I had gotten.
The 3
rest of the day I spent onsite monitoring.
Most of the night, till 4l about four in the morning, I went home, slept, come back in about two 5
in the afternoon.
Got assigned inside the building to the Unit 1 6
Control Room.
Answered telephones, and took radio calls from monitoring 7
teams onsite and wrote down information.
And basically, that's what I g
did for the first two days.
9 YUHAS:
- 0. K.
W%n you came in at 1300 on the 28th, where did you 10 11 report to?
12 GABNER:
Observation Center.
13 14 YUHAS:
- 0. K.
Who was in control at the Observation Center?
15 16' GABNER:
First person I spoke to was Tom Mu11eavy.
g 18 YUHAS:
- 0. K.
Tom Mulleavy was at the Observation Center at that time?
g 20 GABNER:
Yes.
21 22 YUHAS:
Now, did Mr. Mulleavy assign you to a site monitoring team..
l
. or an offsite team?
24 I
, f. -
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5 1
GA3NER:
Yes, he did.
2.
3 YUHAS:
Ok.
Do you know what team you were assigned to?
4 5
GABNER:
No.
6 YUHAS:
- 0. K.
7 8
GABNER:
g I don't remember the name, for the simple reason I was on 9"
I'*
10 11 YUHAS:
At that time, was Mulleavy establishing another team, or was it a preexisting team and you were relieving someone else?
14!
GABNER:
It was a new team.
15j 161 YUHAS:
It was a brand new team being established.
17l 18f GABNER:
I think it was " Echo," or something like that.
19; 20 YUHAS:
- 0. K.
Can you describe what instrumentation was given to you 21 and what your directions were? Where you told to go and who you were 22 told to report to?
23 24
. 4 (s.
25l k'
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i
6 1
GABNER:
I was given a complete emergency kit.
It has a Pic 6 in it, 2
an air sampler, a converter to use in trucks.
I could take my air 3
samples.
I had a SAM 2 counter.
The whole works.
I had my own kit.
4 5
YUHAS:
- 0. K.
Was there anyone assigned to the team with you?
6 7
GA8NER:
Yes, Joe Hipple.
8 YUHAS:
And where were you told to head to?
g 10 GABNER:
11.
First place we went was the south end of the island.
We 12 weren't there very long, and were put right onto the island, as nother nsite team.
We were told to report to the south end of the island, 13 because it was a low background area.
And we stayed there for a little while and then we went into, I believe it's SE-1, by the north bridge to take samples.
I took a sample, brought it back, counted it, 16 and called in our information and stayed on the south end of the g
island the rest of the night.
6 19l YUHAS:
- 0. K.
Did you have any difficulty counting the charcoal filter with the Sam 2 instrument?
21, 22 GABNER:
No.
It worked very good.
24 25 l
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t I
7 1.
YUHAS:
Had you used the Sam 2 before?
l 2'
3 GABNER:
Yes.
4 5l YUHAS:
Can you describe the circumstances under which you used the 6
Sam 2 before?
7 GABNER:
The only time before I'6 used it was in emergency drills.
8 9
YUHAS:
Was there a barium source in the kit with you?
10 11 GABNER:
Yes.
13 YUHAS:
- 0. K.
Did you have a procedure to follow?
l 15' GABNER:
Yes, we ' Aid.
Procedure's in the box - in the case.
17 YUHAS:
So everything was there and you didn't have any problem running the air sample?
20 GABNER:
No, we didn't have any problems at all.
22 YUHAS:
Where did you find on those air samples? Do you remember?
23 Not exact numbers, just -
24 gh 25-C. k l
Q.
8 1,
GABNER:
Very little reading.
I had really not gotten anything on my 2
air sample.
3 4
YUHAS:
- 0. K.
5 GABNER:
It was a little higher than background.
6 7
YUHAS:
- 0. K.
8 9
GABNER:
Nothing.
10 11 YUHAS:
Now you and Mr. Hipple apparently stayed on the onsite monitoring team for quite a w\\ile that night.
Is that right?
g 14 GABNER:
Yes.
16 YUHAS:
Did you have a company vehicle?
18}
GABNER:
Yes, we Jid.
20 YUHAS:
- 0. K.
And you primarily took readings outside the security fence, but still on the island?
22 23 GABNE_R:
Yes.
2s a
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11 YUHAS:
- 0. K.
Could you basically describe who was directing your 2:
activities?
3 4
GABNER: Who is the person, I don't know.
All our information was 5
coming from ECS.
And at the time, I think ECS was in Unit 1 Control Room.
I wasn't exactly sure, because we hadn't gotten into the Control 6
Room at the time. We hadn't been in the building yet.
f 8
YUHAS:
g Could you describe some of the readings that you were in that - looks like you were doing that like 10 hours1.157407e-4 days <br />0.00278 hours <br />1.653439e-5 weeks <br />3.805e-6 months <br />.
Right?
10 11 GABNER:
About 5 or 6 hours6.944444e-5 days <br />0.00167 hours <br />9.920635e-6 weeks <br />2.283e-6 months <br /> we did that yes.
p 13 YUHAS:
- 0. K.
g 15; I
GA8NER: We didn't have any high reading, really.
Like I said, we had 16!
about 20 or 30 mr reading at one point at the north bridge, and we were right in the wind direction at the time. We were asked to report 18(
to the Observation Center once.
And going up !Routel 441 and we had 19l gotten a 20 mr reading on the highway.
And coming right...we weren't 201 there but two minutes at the Observation Center and on our way back to 21 i
the area, it wasn't even there.
So it just kind of blew across the 223 road there and that was it.
23 24 25
.hs i
1
10 1
YUHAS:
What instrument were you taking dose rates with?
2 3
GABNER:
At that time we were on an E-520.
4 5
YUH&:
Did either you or Mr. Hipple suspect that the E-520 wasn't 6
operating properly anytime that evening?
7 GA8NER:
Yes. We did.
'And at that point, we thought it wasn't.
So g
g we had done going to the Observation Center, we had picked up Karl Plumlee.
And he had rode back on the island with us and the verified 10 the reading that we had got.
But it wasn't there coming down the 11 highway.
But when we had gone over the north bridge, again we were in g
another 20 mR to 30 mR field, and that his instrument was reading the 13 1 same with ours. So it verified that we had a good instrument.
I 15 YUHAS:
So you held on to the E-520 for the rest of the evening?
16 17 GABNER:
Yes. We kept it.
g 19 YUHAS:
Were you taking open and closed window readings with that instrument?
21 22 i
GABNER:
- c..
We were.
23 24 25 1
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11 1
YUHAS:
Did you report them as such?
1 2
l 3
GABNER:
Yes.
4 l
5l YUHAS:
- 0. K.
Now, did you stay there until 4 o' clock in the morning 6
or did you change jobs?
7 GABNER:
No.
We had changed jobs, but... what we had done when we 8
I g
changed jobs, we were assigned to the protection, or up where the security guards are.
10 11 YUHAS:
Oh, Process Center?
13 GABNER:
Processing Center.
We really didn't do anything there.
We 15l were just, monitoring people in and out, which was very hard to do with
{
a high background field.
17 YUHAS:
Are you sure this isn't the 500 KV area, where they were releasing people?
20
~
GABNER:
No, we were sending them there from the Processing Center.
21, i
We were checking with the Processing Center and sending them over to 22 l
the 500 KV area.
23 24 t
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W 12 1
YUHAS:
This is because the background was too high at the 500 KV?
l 2!
l 3
GABNER:
But we were trying to fi.,d if anybody had any good amount on 4
them. We would have known that.
5 YUHAS:
- 0. K.
6 7
GABNER:
I mean, if they just a small amount of contamination, or 8
anything wouldn't have found out there.
g 10, YUHAS:
0.K.
Did you have any other assignments that night?
12 GABNER:
No.
I believe that was it.
From there we went over to the Observation Center for our last hour, told us to go home and get some sleep.
16 YUHAS:
Who was running the Observation Center? That must have been about 3 o' clock in the morning on the 29th?
19 GABNER:
Yes it was, but I don't know who was there.
20 21 YUHAS: When you came back to work at 2 o' clock on the 29th, you went 22 to the Unit 1 Control Room.
Is that right?
23 24 25 ch O
i i
i
13 1.
GABNER:
True.
2:
3 YUHAS: The second day... Yes.
Can you tell us who was in the Unit 4
1 Control Room and what was going on at that time?
5 6
GABNER:
Fred Huwe and Tom Mulleavy were there for Health Physics.
7 What we were doing at that time, was just monitoring areas, looking to 8
see if people could go into different areas.
I also had gone down to g
chemistry for a little while to take a sample, but I don't remember what it was.
It was for Gary Reed.
10 11 YUHAS:
Was the reactor coolant sample going on at that time?
g 13 GABNER:
No, not at that time.
No.
I believe Ed Houser took that 15 16' YUHAS:
- 0. K.
17 18l GABNER:
I'm not exactly sure at what time he took that.
191 i
20 YUHAS:
You mentioned Mr. Reed...
22 GABNER:
In fact, he might have had that sample by then.
He might j
have taken that early in the morning, I believe.
24 l
25 f
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i
14 1
YUHAS:
Did you go down and check on Mr. Reed?
I understand, I think 2
Mr. Reed was the one who ran the boron.
3 4
GABNER:
Yes, he did.
5 YUHAS:
After that sample had been taken? Right.
6 7
GABNER:
Yes.
g 9
YUHAS:
Is that why you went down to Unit 1, Gary was there?
10 11 GABNER:
No.
Not to check him out.
He was already done with that boron.
g 14 YUHAS:
- 0. K.
He already...
5 16 GABNER:
Yes.
He already run that.
We were running something else.
I don't remember what it was.
It was secondary, whatever it was.
18 19l l
YUHAS:
Oh, I see.
So, did you stay in the Control Room, or did you
_20l go out and do onsite or in plant surveys?
22 GA"NER:
We stayed in the Control Room, basically all night.
The only 23 time we left, was one time we went down in the aux building to survey 24 it with a person who was going down to change the filter..
I 25
%sk
f 15 1.
believe it was a makeup filter.
And that was about it.
That's the 2
only survey I think I did that night.
3:
4 YUHAS:
Makeup filter in the Unit 1 aux building?
5 6
GABNER:
Unit 1, yes.
7 YUHAS: When you say "we" were in the control room.
Who's we?
8 9
GABNER:
10 From our department, there was myself, Ron Evans and I believe Gordon Reider also.
The three of us had come in at that time.
11 12 YUHAS:
- 0. K.
It must have been the night before that Mr. Reider and 13 Mr. Evans went in and changed the HPR 219 charcoal, and collected some water samples.
Is that right?
151 16 GABNER:
That's possible.
I wasn't working with them that evening.
18(
YUHAS:
- 0. K.
Were you doing any counting in the control room? Sample counting?
21 GABNER:
The only samples I counted in the control room were the air samples we were taking constantly in the control room... parti'cularly 23
~9
-8 3 x 10
, or 10 I believe it was
... and staying basically in 24 of}
that area.
25
'.k(.da
I 16 1-YUHAS: Were personnel on masks in the control room?
2!
3 GABNER:
Yes.
At that time we were.
They had identified the particulates.
4 They had counted on somebody's GeLi, I don't know whose.
They had 5
identified them and said they were less than require you to wear 6
a respirator.
7 RESNER:
8 Was everyone on masks in the control room that you saw?
9 GABNER:
In the control room, yes.
Right outside the control room 10 door, we were wearing respirators, to go anywhere in the building.
12 YUHAS:
Does the control room have its own air sampling system? Unit 1 Control?
15 GABNER:
It has a monitor.
It has an air monitor, yes.
RMA-1, I believe it is.
-17 18j YUHAS:
Did you look at that panel at all that evening?
19f l
20j GABNER:
No, I didn't. We were taking our own samples right there.
21 l
YUHAS: Yuhas:
What were you counting those samples on?
22' 23 GABNER:
SAM 2.
24 25 9g A
.g ;
i
17 1
YUHAS:
SAM 2.
2 3
GABNER: We had a SAM 2 setup at 11.
4 5
YUHAS:
All right.
And what time did you leave?
It would have been 6
the morning of the 30th? You came in at 1400, right?
-7 GABNER:
Yes.
8 9
YUHAS:
So you must have worked the 10 11 GABNER:
I worked till about 1:00 that night.
g 13 YUHAS:
And that would have been the morning of the 30th, right?
p
- * "" "9' 15 16 17 GABNER:
Yes.
18{
19 YUHAS:
You went nome, and did you come back in on the 30th? On Friday?
21 22I GABNER:
Yes, I did.
I came back in at 7:00 at night, I believe.
I was switching shifts to go the 11:00 to 7:00. So then I came in earlier -
four hours earlier.
25 6
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18 1.
YUHAS:
- 0. K.
And where were you assigned when you came in 7 p.m., on 2.
Friday, the 30th?
3 GABNER:
I'm not sure.
I believe I might have relieved somebody at 4l 5
the Processing Center at that time.
I'm not exactly sure there.
61 YUHAS:
Getting back to the night of the 29th, to the morning of the 7
30th, you were in the control room most of the time.
What sort of 8
information did you become aware of as a result of being in control g
room.
Did you get an idea of what was happening in Unit 2?
10 11' GABNER:
I had a vague idea of what, was happening at Unit 2.
Most of the information that was coming in, concerning Unit 2, was going g
straight to Unit 2.
The things I was doing really didn't have anything to do with Unit 2.
I was doing readings in Unit 1 and surveys in Unit 1.
So, we were really just controlling Unit 1.
17 1
YUHAS:
Do you remember getting any calls back from the 500 KV, indicating 18' gross exposures or contamination of personnel that evening?
20{
}
GABNER:
No.
I hadn't received any calls.
Huwe was on the phone most 21{
of the night.
And I hadn't picked anything up.
22 23 RESNER:
Did you hear anyone speaking of over exposures?
24 25 i
a S-
E 19 1
GABNER:
No.
2 3
YUHAS:
Saw nothing too exciting happen that night?
4 5
GABNER:
No, not that I thought was exciting.
6 YUHAS:
0.K., fine.
I'll give you an opportunity to make any comments 7
g about the Health Physics program, or Chemistry program, if you would like, at this time.
g 10 GABNER:
The only comments I've got to make, there is a little more yy training necessary for the people in our department, in the HP Department.
12 We have a training week set up, but we don't have enought people to 13 cover jobs if they train us during our training week.
We have to be p
the plant - working.
151 l
16 YUHAS:
How long has this been going on?
18l GABNER:
We've had this training week the whole 5 years I've been here.
And I think the first year was the only year we got any training.
For 4 years we've had a training week, and not had any training.
22 YUHAS:
Is there some procedure that sets out this training week and what's supposed to be done?
24 i
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20 1
GA8NER:
No.
2 3
YUHAS:
Is there a formal training progra:n or a retraining program for 4.
Health Physics technicians?
5 6
GABNER:
There had been a program set up for training, but they never 7
follow through with them.
8 YUHAS:
Is that a documented program? Was there something that was g
written in your procedures or.
10 11 GABNER:
Not written into a procedure, no.
Just.
documented, yes, and written up.
We've even seen some of them, but they never 3
follow through with the time they train us, on what they had written u.
You know, like they would put out a sheet saying, one week we 5l l
would like to take you aside and show you this system, how it works, get into it and study it, but they never came back with it.
17 181
[
YUHAS:
Do you operate the TLD reader?
20 GABNER:
Yes.
21-.
22 YUHAS:
0.K.
When did you start operating the TLD reader?
23 1
24 25
- jv
21 1
GABNER:
Probably three and one half years ago.
Just after we - I 2
guess we got it about 4 years ago and Buring set it up.
And after he 3
set it up, we started working with him.
When we had TLDs to read, he 4
would be there and we would train with him.
Like on-the-job. training.
5 And I guess everybody knows how to work it now.
6 YUHAS:
- 0. K.
Were you ever given an examination or asked to demonstrate 7
8 y ur proficiency at reading "LDs.
9 GABNER:
No.
10 11 YUHAS:
Was there a weekly or a monthly QC program where you were asked to read blind TLDs to make sure that you could get the right 13 number?
15 GABNER:
No.
TNe only time that we ever read any TLDs that we knew
- 16l, what they were, -
when we were adjusting the machine, and we would expose them ourselves.
19j YUHAS:
- 0. K.
2G;;
So, at that time, you actually knew what it was supposed to read before you ever did it.
22 GABNER:
Yes.
23 24 25 1
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Q, 4
22 1.
YUHAS:
- 0. K.
In the last two years, have you been given any formal 2
classroom presentation on TLD program and just general personnel 3
monitoring devices?
4 5
GABNER:
No.
6 YUHAS:
- 0. K.
What I'm trying to do here is to establish just what 7
8 areas... what you're doing, whether you've been trained or retrained, g
to give you an indication of changes in the systems and changes in technolcgy, and those kind of things.
Do you calibrate portable 10 survey radiation instruments?
g 12 GABNER:
Yes.
14 YUHAS:
- 0. K.
Is this done according to a procedure, step-by-step?
16 GABNER:
Yes. We have procedures on all our instruments.
18[
19I,'
YUHAS:
- 0. K.
Do ye's calibrate teletectors?
20
~
GABNER:
Yes.
21; 22 YUHAS:
Do you calibrate them enough that you feel you could tell me 23 how you do a teletector calibration in a high range?
24 25l 4
b ~.h c
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23 1
GABNER:
As far as adjustment, all of the teletectors we've had, we 2
never really had to adjust from the time they come in.
But as far as 3
exposing it, yes, I can tell you how to do that.
4 5
YUHAS:
Would you please do that, please?
61 GABNEF: We have a high range calibrator machine.
It has a hole in 7
it, basically, for your teletector.
It has attenuations.
The source, 8
I'm not exactly what the curie source is.
g 10 YUHAS:
Do you know the type of source it is?
12 GABNER:
No.
It's written in the procedure, but I don't remember off-hand.
We have a chart and lock at the attenuation factor for a certain reading, and put the teletector right in.
And it only fits one way so you can't go wrong there.
And expose it to the level it should be.
If it's really close... for myself I like it to be just about right on, or I won't accept it.
Most of our teletectors are pretty good.
18(
We expose them to a level and they come right in.
I 201 4
YUHAS:
Do you know what that level is for the high range on a teletector?
21 How many R's per hour your exposing it to?
22 23 GABNER:
I believe it's 350, 350 R.
I'm not exactly sure, there.
24 25 e
i e
0 1
I i.
i 24 1
YUHAS:
- 0. K.
Do you know what source is used to calibrate the R02?
I 2
3 GABNER:
For the high range end, you use the same source - the high 4
range source. We have a plate that we set into the high range cage 5
and it only sets in one way.
You set the R02 in and the high range we 6
expose there.
And the other source is, I believe, a Cesium source 7
that we use for the low range.
8 YUHAS:
How do you determine how that instrum at responds to beta g
radiation?
10 11-GABNER:
We have a source... it's a uranium source, I believe.
We g
take a reading with the window closed and a. reading with the window 3
open.
And I forget how we get the correction factor on it, but it's I
in the procedure.
A reading with it shut and reading w'ith it open, 15l
- E 9*
16 17 YUHAS:
- 0. K.
You are a senior, right?
19 GABNER:
Well, I'm not a senior yet.
21 YUHAS:
You've just become a senior?
23 GABNER:
I will become one, maybe.
24 2s b
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9 25 1.
YUHAS:
0.K.
-2:
3 GA8NER:
I'm in training now.
I have ninety days.
4 5
YUHAS:
- 0. K.
What does that training consist of?
6 7
GABNER:
I don't know, I haven't had it yet.
8 YUHAS:
(laughter) Good answer.
Did you go to any of the B&W chemistry-g schools?
10 11 GABNER:
Yes, I did.
Last year I went to B&W in Ohio, in their secon-12 dary chemistry.
13 14
- " "9 E " **
15 16 GABNER:
No formal training, no.
18(
YUHAS:
Do you run... B&W or do you run reactor coolant samples?
g 20-GABNER:
Yes, I do.
21 22 YUHAS:
- 0. K.
Could describe what an E is?
23 24 25 l
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GABNER:
No.
I can't.
2; determinations?
3 YUHAS:
Do you routinely do E 4
GABNER:
The seniors do.
The seniors have been doing it.
6 YUHAS:
The seniors do.
- 0. 'K.
7 8
GABNER:
Sooner or later I'll be doing it, I guess.
9 10 YUHAS:
Do you run boron analyses?
11l 12 GABNER:
Yes.
13 14 YUHAS:
Could you describe to me how to run a boron analysis?
15 16 GABNER:
Sure.
First you have to obtain an operations number, by 17 running a cap solution, which is made up in our own labs.
That's to 18 get an operation number that's consistent.
You run 3 caps and try to 191 get them within and you get an operation number.
Take your operation 20 number, you run your boron; titrate it, whatever mis you use is your 21 sodium hydroxide.
You take that times your operation number and you 22 have the boron.
23 24 25 i
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27 1
YUHAS:
0.K., that's all there is to it.
2 3
GABNER:
It's simple.
4 5
YUHAS:
All right. The reason I'm asking these questions is just to 6
get a feel for... some of the questions have a fairly technical 7
base... and to get a feel for, just the absence of training...
g whether or not you could answer the questions.
That's the only reason.
9 I'm not trying to test you or anything else.
It's just that.
10 but a lot of people have said that they feel that they haven't got en ugh training, and that's a subjective comment.
The only way we.can 11 y
make a value judgement on, the degree accuracy of that comment, is by asking questions to see whether or not the people truly are trained.
13 Are there some areas that you feel that your training was deficient p
f r your level of responsibility?
In other words, obviously since you 15 i
don't run E' there is really not that great of a need to train you to 16
)
do it.
Right?
Is there some areas where you are responsible for that 17 l
you feel you need more training? Areas in which you are uncomfortable doing some task?
I 20 GA8NER:
Doing a task in particular, no, not really.
But the things I feel uncomfortable about, is like... I would like to know more 22 about the plant.
It would be a lot easier if I had some training -
23 like systems training.
Getting into the operation of the plant would help.
Like, if there was a problem in the plant while I was there, I
-25 r
i 4, 6
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28 1
could help them with the problem on chemistry or HP, if I knew the 2
system.
And without system training, picking it up hearsay, or going 3
to a book and just looking at it yourself, it's a little harder.
I 4
think that's about what I'd like to have, a lot more systems training.
5 6
RESNER:
At this time, we'll take a break to change the tape.
The 7
time is 4:04 p.m.
8 RESNER:
This is a continuation of the interview with Mr. Michael K.
g Gabner.
The time is now 4:05 p.m.
10 11 g
Let's talk briefly about procedural adherence to Health Physics YUHAS:
pr cedures.
Do plant personnel - do they rarely deviate from procedures?
13 Say for instance, high rad area control.
Do the people - operations g
gr up r thers - do they follow the procedures for high rad area 15 Control in terms of informing the HP when they have to go into a high rad area, or do they just kind of - because they are oper;oions, maybe avoid the Health Physics Department and do it on their own?
l 19l GABNER:
They very seldom do that.
They might have caught somebody over the years doing something li.ke that, but we almost always contacted before they go into a high radiation area.
All high radiation areas are locked and the key's in the control room. We usually know when they are going.
25 g+.,
29 1.
YUHAS:
Does this hold true for other procedurt:s, as well?
l 2!
3 GABNER:
Basically, yes. We very seldom don't follow procedures.
You 4
might find somebody not following a procedure once or twice, but they 5
are usually adhere to them pretty well.
6 YUHAS:
- 0. K.
Good.
7 8
YUHAS:
g Are there any other comments you want to make other than training?
10 11.
GABNER:
No, nothing else.
p 13 RESNER:
- 0. K.
I have one additional question.
That is, is there any reason for you to believe that someone may have deliberately done something to either initiate or contribute to the severity of the incident that occurred on March 28th?
18f i
GABNER:
No, I don't think so.
I see no reason for them to do it.
20 RESNER:
Have you ever heard it discussed, that particular issue, 211 among any employees?
23 GABNER:
No.
I never heard anybody say anything like that.
24 25 i
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30 1.
RESNER:
For the record, would you explain R02 and TLD?
2 3
GABNER:
R02 is an instrument we use; its a Rad Owl-2.
It's just a 4
beta gamma instrument.
TLD is thermal luminescent dosimetry.
5 6
RESNER:
Thank you.
7 YUHAS:
That concludes this interview.
Thank you very much for coming 8
in Mr. Gabner.
The time is 5:10.
g 10 RESNER:
Excuse me, that is 4:10.
11 12 YUHAS:
Gees - I'd prefer that it was 5:10.
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