ML19296D508
| ML19296D508 | |
| Person / Time | |
|---|---|
| Issue date: | 02/21/1980 |
| From: | NRC COMMISSION (OCM) |
| To: | |
| Shared Package | |
| ML19296D509 | List: |
| References | |
| REF-10CFR9.7 NUDOCS 8003040700 | |
| Download: ML19296D508 (26) | |
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-- - -. - -. - ~ [ ~. i e s i e, e '+9 ~.,f U NIT E D STATES NUCLEAR REG UL ATORY C OMMIS SIO N In the matter of: BRIEFING ON INTERAGENCY RADIOLOGICAL ASSISTANCE PROGRAM ( PIace: Room 1130, 1717 H Street, Washington, D.C. DQte: February 21, 1980 pCSeS: 26 i INTERNATCNAL VtuAnM Rmm INC. 49 SCUTH CAPITCL STR:,.. S. W. SUITE 1C7 WASHINGTCN. C. C. 20002 322 484.m 80030 40700
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I l I f / UNITED STATES 2 l NUCLEAR REGULATORY COMMISSION - _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _x A In the Matter of: BRIEFING ON INTERAGENCY RADIOLOGICAL e i f l ASSISTANCE PROGRAM 3 l ____________________x 7 3 1 i ? i Room 1130, Eleventh Floor 10 l 1717 H Street, N.W. i Washington, D.C. 77 l Thursday, February 21, 1980 l ta i t 12 The Commission met, pursuant to notice, for I l Te presentation of the above-entitled matter, at 3:36 p.m., l i BEFORE: I4 I JOHN F. AHEARNE, CHAIRMAN
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t 73 RICHARD T. KENNEDY, COMMISSIONER 19 20 11 i E t 24 l
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AY ~ l c av 2 macz.we. Tape 1,2 l l I I _P _R _O _C _E _E _D _I _N _G _S i i l i 2 CHAIRMAN AHEARNE: We continue our meeting to this I j particular portion to discuss the IRAP. Secretary Glusen, g glad to have you with us here this afternoon. l Bill? i MR. DIRCKS: Well, I do want to introduce Assistant 6 l I Secretary Glusen and Mr. Joe Deal who is Chief of the j i i i Environmental and Public Safety Branch working in the office i 3 under Assistant Secretary Glusen. 9 l l Joe, I guess, is an old hand around here. Secretary l 10 i Glusen this is your first visit to our quarters, so however l 11 you want to handle the briefing. i I2 i MS. GLUSEN: Well, I would simply say that I'm glad l I 13 i to have the opportunity to actually come to your headquarters. !4 I i We have had a great deal of interaction, really, between your 13 staff and mine in the year and a half to two years that I've i !d l been here. One of the operations that I have come to have 17 considerable respect for, even though they provide some of 18 the more dramatic moments of my life, is indeed those who work 19 with the emergency response effort. f 'g CHAIRMAN AHEARNE: They provided a dramatic moment 1 7 l in my life, too. I I MS. GLUSEN: As yours as well, I know. But, I'd want to reassert our willingness to be of any assistance to the i U Commission which we can and to encourage a close working i i 2 relationship and to say that I'm glad we have the opportunity i lprftputef"CWmA4, VNPtB O 'M me-e a e m I me gagne C,petts. FTTG". L e SJff1 'O el _im a 3. SIEE
= ^2 ay 3 i =acz sc. l l \\ P i I to tell you a little bit about what we do today. Joe Deal i 2 is indeed the man who does it. I l MR. DEAL: Thank you, Ruth. Mr. Chairman -- f i A CHAIRMAN AHEARNE: Joe, would you mind clipping on j that little -- yeah, there's some people in back who would l never hear you. 3 MR. DEAL: You want me to put a mike on? I guess I 7 better. Will everyone hear me, because I get accused of I talking very low and my voice drops occassionally. 9 l We have put together a briefing for you with j l i i some charts and pictures which will take I hope not more than 11 l about 25 or 30 minutes. CHAIRMAN AHEARNE: Fine. l MR. DEAL: At which time after that, we would be 14 l i glad to answer whatever questions that we can answer. We t.! l appreciate the opportunity to be with you. As Ruth mentioned, 14 we're the ones that usually bring her the bad news, but, j t-fortunately she hasn't done us like the Roman generals used I ta i to do, you know when the bad news bear comes in they say take 19 f him out and cut his head off. We haven't gotten to thcc stage. ; i '0 l = We know that from discussions with some of your
- 1 staff people, there have been some questions raised about the j
I things we were doing with our interagency radiological i 22 assistance plan. I'd like to bring that up a little bit later and try to answer those towards the end of the meeting. e I wonder if we could get the first slide, let's see -- I i vo no vo = :-, _ r e f me scuThe C.AMPCI. STEIEZ?. L e, tu,T1 -97 3 = 1-
~ = AY = av 4 i ,, _ y I l 1 i I here we are. We have in the department a very broad and i maintain a very large program to deal with the broad spectrum i of accidents ranging from minor spills and weapons -- loss 4 sources to major accidents in department facility and weapons i 3 accident or an accident such as Three Mile Island. l I If we could have the second slide. There's some i g unique features about radiation accidents that requires 7 j specialized instruments, personnel capabilities for determining l i degree of hazard, and recommendations and needs to mitigate 9 l t the hazards and protection to public. !O I j We have shown here on the slide some of the things 11 1, that the specialized people can do for us. If, we could have I2 the next slide, please. We maintain a radiological assistance l program. It has been going on since the very early days of I4 the Atomic Energy Commission. This is operated out of the l Regional Coordinating Offices of the AE Company, what used to l I4 i be called the Operations Offices. From these offices, anyone l t -- \\ who wants assistance or thinks they have a problem associated 18 with a radiation source or radiation problem can call one of I 19 these offices and within a reasonably short period of time "O can get assistance from a rather.large capability that's ~1 available to them. I If we could have the next slide. It shows a little l ~ I I bit abcut the number -- U CHAIRMAN AHEARNE: Can I ask -- i U MR. DEAL: Yes, sir. i IsrregonaW>iaa. Vcireaf*ee b -i.,, M me satTte C.aew?'3. ffwc*. L e. SJfT't '57 el _m & L Ames
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i l I f I CHAIRMAN AHEARNE: --where you have the time response I 2 radiological assistance team on duty hours, 30 minutes, what I I exactly do you mean? Do you mean that within 30 minutes -- 4 MR. DEAL: You're one slide ahead of me. When I get back to them, but, I have to warn you, those are not the e complete set of slides. Those are the ones we have, sorry. 3 i 7 The point I want to make here, is that we have a lot l of -- we get as you can see, several hundred calls a year. We l 3 haven't collected all the statistics from 1979 yet. Most of I l these are minor. Somebody thinks they saw a leak on a truck l 10 and they look at the package and they think it's radioactive. I i We send somebody out to look at it. There's in from these 12 offices -- what I showed you on the map earlier, there's 1:2 l I some 700 department and contractors, scientific and technical il l personnel available to co out and look at these situations i.! l i far as they have instruments and they have all the necessary id equipment to go. It's a dual capacity. They're not just 17 sitting there waiting for a call. They're doing a lot of ia other things, and we're able to mobilize them and call them 19 out when we need them. I 20 COMMISSICNER KENNEDY: Joe, are you saying that you
- 1 respond to all such transportation problems for the --
l ~ MR. DEAL: Whenever we get a call from them. I l l COMMISSIONER KENNEDY: Where do you get the calls I 72 trom? MR. DEAL: Can you back up a slide? We get them l ,,m no ve m. x i me E3L,Me GMT13. ffwCr'. E e. sufft 'M l _ _. ws 1 *
= AY o,.. 6 na.sc. l [ I through our regional offices and -- 2 l COMMISSIONER KENNEDY: Yeah, but, what I'm getting at, are you getting them all? We're responding to all kinds A of this stuff, too. What I'm trying to get at is are you getting e them all? Are we getting them all? Are we both getting them 6 all? i i I 7 MR. DEAL: We probably both get them. There's a lot i l i of coordination that goes on in this. But, we're probably 3 1 both getting the calls. 9 CHAIRMAN AHEARNE: Your response is independent of i who raises the question. MR. DEAL: Yes. I2 I i CHAIRMAN AHEARNE: It's more the type of -- 13 i i MR. DEAL: It's a public safety function as we look 14 l at it. If somebody thinks they have a problem with radiation t' it's a unique situation and we think we ought to send somebody i id l out with an instrument and see if they have a problem, and if it; 17 l is try to help them solve it. That's historic, it's been 18 going on since the. days of our predecessors in the AEC. It's 19 I those places where the resources and the people are available. 20 They have ways of calling them out in a hurry and moving out. 11 l l We do show -- if you can go to slide number five. i The next slide, after that. The next one. There we are. i l As you can see -- now this is getting to your i i 24 question Chairman Ahearne. On duty hours that means that the ~ people at the laboratory are there at the office or somewhere
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eusa: we. l and'when they get a call they can move fairly fast in terms i 2 of response. If they're at home, we have another 30 to 60 l minutes to find them. I. A CHAIRMAN AHEARNE: Well, my question was in 30 minutesi does that mean that you have formed a team in 30 minutes? i t MR. DEAL: For the minor incidents, yes, sir. These 3 are the minor type things that we've mentioned about. 7 CHAIRMAN AHEARNE: So that would be sort of a point of departure then from wherever and these teams would form out I j of each of those eight regional offices? 10 i MR. DEAL: Yes, sir, any one of these offices could be formed in one or two teams or whatever it may take to 17 handle the situation that's available at the mcment. l Then we use the aerial systems to back us up in i is I i the major incidents. Our flying times are really better than 13 I our response shown there because we now have a base at Andrews I4 i Air Base and we have some equipment there and all. I'll show 17 you some of that a little bit later. But, we have a group j 18 there that can respond fairly quickly, too. 19 COMMISSIONER KENNEDY: You're going to tell us 20 something about that equipment. .I've seen it -- 21 MR. DEAL: Yes, sir. COMMISSIONER KENNEDY: -- would they be useful -- i MR. DEAL: I have a whole long and you on j 4 that coming up. = COMMISSIONER KENNEDY: Great. ~ I t.,m % vo=.r = :- u.c l s:un. c.u. m. rrecz. s.. mirre e 2m., =
g AY__o av ,i Facz we. 8 E I ({ I MR. DEAL: Back at the end of the Atomic Energy ,i-2 Commission's days and when we became two agencies, the -- and really when Schlesinger was still Chairman of the Commission, t t i they raised the cuestions about the resconse to terrorists e incidents. There was a question about our being able to i 6 mobilize resources at that time AEC later the Energy Research l and Development Administration. In an effective way with 7 a Commanding Control structure that would really be imposed 6 over this decentralized activity which I've just mentioned 9 l t which is where somebody calls and says the truck's turned over l 10 I and we need help, why the local officer responds. This would 11 I be getting into the headquarters type things. l 12 i i We did a lot of thinking in working throughout the i 13 whole at that time, the whole administration, the Energy is i i Research and Development Administration, and came up with a plan,' I.! i to form an integrated response to any kind of an incident that id would occur. This is called our EACT. I don't know whether you've had discussions with anybody on the EACT program or i 18 not, but it provides a mechanism for a comprehensive mobilizing ! 19 of our resources for major accidents. It only comes into
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play in the case of a major accident. l i 21 CHAIRMAN AHEARNE: You have some worth working 22 definition of a major accident? MR. DEAL: Yes, we do, we have a slide. The next
- 1 slide, please.
These are what we would consider the things that would cause a major emergency. If you can see here, it's - m va m. _,__:c j - sam. cwm: smcrr. s.. men e
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i f_ I a theft of a nuclear weapon or component, terrorist threat i I to detonate in a nuclear explosion, a threat to damage I I i facilities or harm personnel, a natural diaster that was 4 sufficient to cause release of radioactivity or some other i 3 damage to the facility, manmade disasters like something l blowing up or causing difficulties, high level of environmental 6 l contamination associated with release from a facility, 7 accidental releases that woald cause some immediate danger 3 i to personnel and then a accident detonation or the weapons type things. Those we consider the major accident. That triggers EACT which is composed of senior staff frem now the department. We have people from Ms. Glusen's shop in Environmental Safety. We have people from Safeguards and l 13 i Security groups, the military application program, public i I4 I information people, our nuclear energy people are available f.! l if it's scmething that involves an accident type with the l 14 l reactor. We have all the supporting services communications 17 all the things that we need from that point of view. 18 This gro.up is chaired by the Director of Military l i 19 l Application, Major General Hoover. EACT operates out of an
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emergency -- we have an emergency center which I'm sure you've j l 21 seen or maybe you've seen if you haven't, you know about it. i It's manned 24 hours a day and basically it's manned by i m ~ communicators. They are young retired army and military type sergeants or most of them are enlisted men, former enlisted men. They are the people that get the calls that come in to the !M N DU ve a 6 aus m:n/The 4Lur*Ca. ffTrEZ'. E e. RJfT1 'M
10 l AY = av = macz se. i l ( i headquarters of any kind of an incident. These young men are i i, i 2 i available -- they've been notified of the proper staff. They're: i I the ones that call Ruth at night when something happens at i A one of our facilities. I' We have a plan set up and they have a roster of e 6 pe ple that they netify. We have a screening procedure so i I that if something minor comes in we usually stop it and 8 7 ) l call people the next day. We have duty officers around the i 3 I clock who are available by phone and carry beepers with them. 9 So, we have a fairly good system for moving rather quickly in case an incident occurs. 11 i CHAIRMAN AHEARNE: Now, in this, the group that mans i. i the center, is there anyone there authorized to take any i II l 1 action other than task ccmmunication? 14 1 MR. DEAL: Not under normal situation. If it's during, l' the day there are a number of people in the building who are available who can take action immediately. W CHAIRMAN AHEARNE: Buc, not -- I8 MR. D EAL.: But, there's no -- if you're saying is f 19 i there a senior staff guy there at night, no there isn't. There l 20 is a military -- there's usually a colonel in 21 equivalent to a senior military officer who directs the EACT ~ operation. He's usually available very quickly by beeper or i ~ on the phone. There are a lot of the rest of us who get calls i
- 1 almost every evening of some kind or other.
Most of them are minor things, but we do get a lot of them. l iarfUtreanCumaa. '/O'NLAPh8 O mi-- - I 8'C as Sc3JTW C.wrfcs. JTwg*. L e. zJ,ft '87 l .am.uusms. :L :. muss
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e i l The communicators call immediately to find out what I (_ i i l 2 l they should do or something. If you're worrying about how fast { thev can mobilize the EACT. CHAIRMAN AHEARNE: No, I was just -- to one of the j g i issues that we had been thinking through on our own cases is 3 i I that if an accident is unfolding very rapidly someone has to l i 4 i make decisions about actions to be taken and there mav not be l 7 t I time in our case where we are concerned that at least the people we have in the chain at any given time at least are especially 9 knowledgeable that they may have to make the decision on behalf 10 i I of the agency at that time. t il 1 l. MR. DEAL: I guess this is just something we have on i. all of these types of situarians. But, if something like that l f: ~ l came up, I think General Hoover would probably be the one that la i would end up -- I'm almost certain he has a phone in his car. I i! l I think he does, but I'm almost certain he does,I would think. j id But, we'd certainly get in touch with him fast. I~ This center has communications in all these things. IS If you haven't seen it and want to come out sometime, we'd be f l 19 l glad to give you a tour. It takes a short time. You've seen I i it, I think, Vic, haven't you? 21 l MR. STELLO: Yes. i I i I2 MR. DEAL: It has all of the things it takes to support us in the case of an emergency. I wanted to -- we've used the IRAP on a couple of l .J 13 really major emergencies. Of course, one of them being that i - ne vo r-w _ fac amo scatThe C.hPTCn. STus1"". L e. marft '87 e--
AY ~ e ay 12 i nscz sc. l \\ I I ( I TMI incident. But, the other one which was probably not as l l visible, but, wa did as much planning and working on was when i the satellite carrying the reactor went down over Canada.
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1 we had like a lot of other people some advanced warning that j i something might happen. But, we actually had the NEST teams e 1 aded on transports, sitting on the ramps at Andrews Air Base 4 I i 7 l and in Nevada. They were ready to move, because we were i l l concerned that the next revolution might have put that thing 1 down in the midwest, the way the -- or nobody knew exactly 9 i i where it was going. Everybody thought it would land in the 10 i Atlantic. But, we made the decision within the department that it was worth the effort in time to have the group i 10 I i i premobilized, ready to move in a hurry. I think it did pay 13 off in that respect. 14 i Now, an accident of the type of Three Mile Island and i I all the others as you know requires an enormous resource to l T4 handle these radiation problems and so forth. I thought we'd i run through some of the slides and some of the things that we l 5
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had from TMI which is what Commissioner Kennedy was referring i I 19 to and that would give you some idea of the responses that we 20 have. You want to start the next slide. We've had major ~ emergencies as strategic petrolleum reserve, we had a fire. +, 'l ~~ We sent our teams down there for investigation. We took some
- 4 pictures and we have a capability for infraread photography and thermoscanning to follow the plume of the oil slick, not (OM YhDM
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~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~~ ]c. 13 i = AY e av ( l I l the slick, but where the lay down on the vegetation there. It i turned out to be helpful in assessing the damage with of course f l Three Mile Island and the Los Angeles threat which was one of j I i the first ones. l A I In case you aren't familiar, that's a case where the e 4 Union Oil properties in Los Angeles were threatened with a t 7 nuclear extortion and explosion. We mobilized a group and j searched all the properties of Union Oil in a period of about 3 24 to 48 hours. That was one of our largest groups and there 9 i was little or no publicity on that naturally. ,0 l i I Could we have the next one, please. These resources are available as we pointed out from all of our major laboratories and if you are familiar with our response at TMI i we had mostly the northeastern laboratories that supported us. la i We had some people from Argots (phonetically spelled) and people, i != i from but basically it was the Brook Haven group and l Id I backed up with and some pecple from Oakridge 17 and 18 Next slide. We have -- I don't know whether you've 19 seen it, but we had a large participation in the Three Mile i 1 20 Island. This is just one that shows the buildup of our 21 contractor and staff personnel that we had operating out at the airport there at Capitol City. l 22 On the first as you can see, and second we had over l l a hundred people in the area. Once this thing gets turned on scmetimes you get more help than you want. But, we learned one l i,,,o % vo
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, _\\Y av pacZ NC. 14 ( lesson, it's better to have more than not have enough. So, when you push that switch the first time you want to be sure 2 r you turn all the buttons on and thcn you can selectively turn i them off. If you try to respond selectively otherwise, you j g I i y end up not having everything you want. Next slide, please. This is the modular transportttion 3 system that had been developed to move the guts of this big 7 i' program as a communication console and things that Commissioner 3 { Kennedy saw up there. We have these -- I call them fly away containers, but there's another name for them. They have four 10 or five of these that are set to be put on either a military i 11 I i transportation or on commercial transportation. 12 l The case of TMI, the day United Airlines went on IC l strike, was the day we were trying to move these things. So, l 14 i we were delayed 24 hours because of that. We did not order 11 t up a military transport. But, through the mass system we i l' Td could have ordered the military transport and saved ourselves 17 24 hours, but we thought we would use the commercial oecause 18 as you recall, it was unphoning (phonetically spelled) a little i 19 slowly at that time. We just weren't sure this was Thursday "O ^ night I guess when we decided to move this stuff. The next slide, please. We mentioned that we have l skilled and experienced technical personnel specialized l 2 instruments and communications. Next slide, please. Of course, one of the things -- I next slide. The specialized instruments and tools include the mm vemn. =~ '~e l as s:stne C.p**tla. ff9Per?. L e. su,ft et
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nacz sc. 15 l (_ l things you see here, but particularly the airplanes. We l have four helicopters. We keep two at Andrews Air Base and I one of which is equipped with the aerial systems where you l i A l see the sign at the bottom caution radiation, those are the 3 sodium iodine detectors we use for low level radiation, but 6 we can use them for the high levels too. Now, one of those l 7 1s here and one of them is at Las Vegas. The blue plane we l Car. move the instrumentation in and out of it. The large I i plane is our newest one, that's a Conveyer, that's used fc_ 9 photo missions and for our infrared scanning. But, we can use the radiation gear on it for plow tracking and plume tracking if we need to. So, any one of those planes can be i l used for plume tracking and plow tracking if we have,to. i 13 I l COMMISSIONER KENNEDY: But, you only have one fixed I4 i i one? j I.! i MR. DEAL: We have two -- I4 j COMMISSIONER KENNEDY: Two. 17 MR. DEAL: We have three -- 18 COMMISSIONER KENNEDY: Three. i9 I i MR. DEAL: -- fixed wing planes. We keep a Beach i 20 Craft A100 at Andrews too. So, we have that and this plane 11 normally stays in Los Vegas. We ha, 'maller old Beach l Craft Bonanza. The big long things are neutron pods which we l I ~ can always use in operation. But, they're there for measuring i
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The package shows you how they pack things away. ~ The next slide, please. This is a picture, okay, these m m va.u vu = - x se ga/The twsTQi, gTMI*, t e gJ,ft c
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(, I are the two airplanes we had at Capitol City Airport most of 2 the time and that's the commonwealth hangup where our base i I 3 j was we had. The State made arrangements for us to use one i 4 corner of that and we kept our planes and equipment there. i 3 The next slide, please. This is just showing you ~ ) the instrument package on the helicopter and that was the one 3 i 7 that responded and was there sometime around three o' clock in the afternoon, on Wednesday afternoon. g t l Next slide, please. This is to show you more of a i 1 i unique tool than it is to show you a helicopter. That is a 10 l j thousand channel analyzer, a portable analyzer, it operates I off of a battery. It was developed to support our radiation 12 i I programs and NEST programs. But, it gives us the capability to l 10 i have portable isotopic identification of contamination which ta is a very helpful thing in a situation where you're not sure l f.! l l what you have here. Now, that can also be hooked, that same T4 electronics can be hooked to an intrinsic germaining detectors. 17 We did use those in scme of our airplanes during the course la of the TMI accident. 19 Next slide, please. This is just to show you the 20 kind of equipment we brought into laboratories to process 21 samples and analyze these resource samples and vegetation i samples and count the air samples that they were taking I l with their counters. This is one of the systems. l .*4 The next slide, please. We bave another one in ~I there. Now, these all came from the Bettis (phonetically ~ tampn foman, veemann O ! ac. r.- me sch,Me M fTutt2*. L e. RJM 'WF
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,m % t { l spelled) Brookhaven laboratories. They loaded these ecuipment people on trucks and they were operating Thursday evening. l Next slide, please. This is -- I'm sure you've heard 4 of our ccmputerized atmospheric release capability. It's y operated from Rivermore (phonetically spelled) and this was ur A ranked system at Harrisburg. We used a telephone 6 7 connection with a xerox machine and once we turn the system i I on we did not turn it off for some 20 days. In fact, a large part of our telephone, though I probably I shouldn't say this 9 i j i in front of my boss, we had a large phone bill. A large part l 10 i i of that bill was $8000 to pay the open line and we kept 11 ti; more during the period. But, it was extremely helpful 12 to our pilots and things to know when they went up on the I: l plume tracking to know where the plume was. This proved itself la i very well during that period. I 3 l Next slide, please. This is just the kind of j id I information we got earlier. 17 CHAIRMAN AHEARNE: Yeah, I'm familiar there. i 18 MR. DEAL: The next slide, please. The technical 19 personnel is a thing we think we have mobilized very well through our EACT system. I'm told that besides the 700 people I've mentioned earlier that are available from a lot of the laboratories that the NEST program alone has some 300 highly I specialized people who are also available to come into a situation. But, they're for specialized activity mostly.
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nacz sc 18 t e ( I assist, too. We had chemist, atmospheric physists, and the I 2 I whole group there just to show you a little bit about it. f One of the key parts of our system was the ccmmunica-j A tions and that's the way they package the portable radios. l i They have about 150, I think, of these radios that they're f i 6 able to use. I i 7 May I have the next slide, please? This shows you a little bit about the communications system. It has a g capability for quite a number of things which we did not use 9 at Harrisburg. But, it might be useful in some cases in the g i kind of situations you may be faced with. We do have ways j ti j to send data back to a link somewhere else. In fact, there's ways to actually send data directly to the computers in the laboratories for certain caculations and things if you're 14 involving a weapons type incident. So, we use mostly, I guess, l 1.5 i the talking part of the communication system. But, they have a slow scan video system where you can send pictures back f 17 l very quickly. They have a lot of other things that go with it. 18 l I'm not going to try to go into those here, but just mention 19 them. 20 i The next slide, please. With this communication j 21 I system we were able to have a command and control structure -~ imposed on our operations there. We had people from our Bettis (phonetically spelled) laboratories. We had people 2 from our labs and all throughout the country and then we had ~ this group with us. But, we had one central point where m% v=m. em. _ t c l as E:ndte CAFTt:n. ffWtIT. L e. HJrT1 '87
19 =_ AY : w ,a e i (_ I everybody could get a phone. We could talk to them on the t radios, those consoles, those white consoles contain both j i i radio buttons that you can talk on the radio or you can use i i a telephone. They had special arrancements with the chene l A i 3 company, so we got telephone lines in a hurry. So, all of l i 6 that is all just part of the package that comes with it and t I 7 once you call this group in. j i Next slide, please. This is our radios. I didn't 3 realize I had a picture of it, but this shows you. That young l ladies job was to see that people got batteries. She knew l 10 l 4 who had the radios, she kept track of what there call letters or what radios they would have so you'd know how to call them. i She took care of seeing that the batteries were changed I 10 everyday and things like that. It's that resource that you 14 need if you have a big situation like this. You have to be I.! l able to bring that in. l Id i l Next slide, please. Another thing which is making 17 this vision possible is the fact that they brought documentary 18 photographers with.them. We've learned from our experiences 19 in the past that it's very important to have good photographs i 20 i of what goes on. We had photographs and we did a lot of l 21 documentation for you people down in the area. I think we did I a lot of stuff for Joe Fouchard at one time or another.
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, yy,,,., 20 pacz we. l (_ Next slide, please. This permitted us to take 2 i pictures of maps and overlays. That was an eight by ten l 3 l polaroid. We had these meetings every afternoon of all the I i 1 A people who were involved in the various agencies in monitoring l l 3 our radiation around the area. We would then be able to pass j i ut pictures of the maps and things that we were able to do 6 I during the day. 7 In the decision-making process, which you would i certainly be in, this is the kind of thing you can do with 9 l l the resource we have available. We have people who can do 10 that kind of thing available and make these pictures and so 11 I l forth right on the spot. These were done right -- oh, that l I2 was done the lith, but we did a lot before than. l The next slide, please. This was someone made an !4 j estimate of the doses from the plume the first week. This was t.! l one of the things that we used. l f4 l The next slide, please. This shows what happened 17 to the plume on March 30th. You can see how the thing was i moving around. We.were able to have this kind of stuff to i 19 show when people came out. i i t 20 The next slide, please. This is the way we had our 21 l briefings. We just had with our guest of military for a stand up briefing. We had a group there who would come in I i every afternoon and we'd have each group get out and tell what i
- 1 they were doing that day, where they were going the next, and t
- G so forth.
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y ( I Next slide, please. I wanted to shift gears now, l l l I because that really covers the TMI situation and talk a little l l about what we have done in connection with the interagency i A i radiological assistance plan. As you know, this was designed i many years ago, before a lot of these resources and things f e i 6 I've shown you here were available as a way to augment the l 7 resources and capabilities that the then AEC had to take care i of an accident. Our act was to bring in the rest of the 3 I t ~ Federal Government and the rest of the agencies into the 9 t l picture. When we got to TMI we realized that IRAP plan while g i i' the booklets had been kept up to date and so forth. It was really outdated and needed revamping. When we came back Ms. i II Glusen wrote to the various agencies. The next two slides i will show you who they wrote to. l 14 i She wrote to each of these people for us and asked i t i them to send people over to work with us on it. The next -- i i I4 show the other one, please. Okay, thank you. l 64 g These were -- we have been meeting with the coordinat-l 18 l ing committee that.was a part of our IRAP plan to try to revamp l 19 the IRAF system and make it more viable to meet what we have i 20 with the new realities of various agencies involved, their t 21 l l responsibilities and their roles and also in working with the l 1 FEMA group because that is another actor in the scene that was I w ~~ not there before. The present planning, of course, with FEMA as I understand -- the last slide, please. These are the dates of the meetings that we've had f U Ed'"7 e N as 3:3JThe M N. E e. EJff'E '87 mZ _ i m & *. Muut
Ar av 22 pacz.sc. l e i I of our committee. We have another one scheduled, I think, the { middle of March and we're hoping to come out with a new plan i 2 I that would fit into FEMA's scheme. As you know, FEMA's -- i t i A CHAIRMAN AHEARNE: Is there any particular reason i i why FEMA wasn't one of the -- I MR. DEAL: They are. They should be on the slide 6 5 I think. I tell you, because we did write to them. Maybe 7 i we wrote to one of the other agencies. l l l MS. GLUSEN: Did we leave them off? 9 MR. DEAL: No, we didn't leave them off. Oh, boy, f
- nd of 10
? ape 1 anyway there were oh no -- "E" CHAIRMAN AHEARNE: Represented by DCPA? j ts I ( 5 I MR. DEAL: Yes, it was DCPA and it was the HEW 13 l people and so forth and they were just getting their act l 14 together when we wrote this letter that's why we didn't write j to them. So, with these meetings with the group and when I I4 FEMA gets their order out, we then hope to tie the IRAP plan 17 to an order which refers to it in that order and lay out a published program of how the emergency response system could I 19 be activated and used in an emergency. l 20 That's really all I've planned to cover. If we I 21 l can answer -- j 69 CHAIRMAN AHEARNE: You had mentioned you've had i I three meetings. Could you sort of say what the status is of
- s the rewriting of the plan?
-e MR. DEAL: Yes. We have -- the first meeting was le,ftpsnaf*O*4 '/EPPEA?9hd OEPOT1"UWE I s.C as Ellt,TW &n#899:A ffleUT, & W. BJffE '87 -. - % g., y
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sacz sc. i e ? ( just-a kind of a briefing. We went through the group to shcw I them kind of things we showed you. We did a critique of our performance and our program at Three Mile Island. l l l t The second two meetings we discussed really a draft l l l of the plan. We actually have a straw man draft that we are e l now circulating for comments from the various agencies. We're 3 getting -- I'm not sure whether all of them have come in or not,j 7 l but a few of them have. We hope to have a session of this in i I I. March and at that time try to resolve whatever the comments t that are coming in and see if we can get the plan at least I to ) everybody on the committee feels they can live with which can 11 then be circulated back to the agencies first, you know, for f ( t: j i COMMISSIONER KENNEDY: Is that plan which, Joe, you i IA would be comfortable with if tomorrow morning you had an l U emergency? j !d l MR. DEAL: I think so. I think it'll have to be that. n-l If we don't, I don't think we want to have it out, do we? I COMMISSIONER KENNEDY: Mike, let me just say, my i 19 l concern was that and has been that I believe that the IRAP 20 is an absolutely essential tool. My concern has been that Il we're getting ourselves for organization bound and we're not -- I was concerned that we were not moving to a new and updated plan perhaps as fast as I would like and I wondered ~ if there's any way that we can contribute to helping move it = forward? ~ i = w m.:.,--,
- c me E2tTh. M N. & e. W ' 87
[ a av ='> pacz sc ., r ( I MS. GLUSEN: Joe, maybe you should comment on the 2 l extent of the revisions to the plan whether they're substantial,' I I minor. l } A MR. DEAL: Well, we start out with trying to make a j e minor revision because we knew FEMA would have a new role. They did not know what that role was in our earlier discussions 6 with them. They have since crystallized their role and have 7 I come out with a draft order which we have been working on. g 9 j COMMISSIONER KENNEDY: How do thef see their role in this context? l 10 l j MR. DEAL: The IRAP plan under the FEMA order if I I 11 ? l recall it correctly, I didn't bring it with me, but it would ( !2 I i ~ in affect delegate through the IRAP program the job of 10 t building an offsite radiation monitoring effort to the Department i Id i of Energy to use the resources and to then call those other l agencies in that we would need to get help from. That's the l i f4 way it's set up. 17-CHAIRMAN AHEARNE: So, you would see it as being 18 I entirely consistent really with that' I 19 MR. DEAL: Yes, sir. Yes, sir. It's entirely l 20 consistent and would take care of the offsite problem and 4 Il would provide augmented resources that we could call in if i f ~~ we needed them from the other agencies. I think you just have m f to recognize the fact that no agency has the resources to l handle the radiation problem at the department and within it's facilities. Even the DOD doesn't have it. They're very helpful l m% n=v e as e M ff8PEI*.L8. BJfTT 'EF
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% % 33_ .e i i ( I for coming in and giving us logistic support and things like I that. But, if you really get down to it, it's a question of l 2 who can command and mobilize and bring those resources in f A and use them properly and that's what we're trying to do with our plan. e l i i 6 CHAIRMAN AHEARNE: All that is embedded then in this 7 revision. Now to pick up on Ms. Glusen's comment, how extensive are the revisions? g j MR. DEAL: Well, I think what we're talking about is 9 j that the basic plan is not going to have a lot of revisions, it's the appendix and the annexes and things that we have to end up with. If we get into the procedural question of how l 1 I i you do this and that, then we may have extensive revisions. i l The resources that other agencies can bring to bear which were 14 i I defined in the last plan are changing and it's those kind of 11 t things that are going to make a big change more than anything i id I i else. 17 MS. GLUSEN: I think it's in response to two things l 18 I i as I understand it Some actual on the scene experience so f 19 l to speak, plus the addition of some new agencies and some 20 l new agency roles in the ball game. But, substantially the over-; 21 all mission and procedures and goals, the heart of it remains I = the same. l MR. DEAL: The addition of these tremendous i resources that we did not have before that can be called on. ~ CHAIRMAN AHEARNE: Is that it? rem va.ur
- c me E2tt'h. M ffWEZ*. L e. EfTE '87
a AY - av 26 8 pacz we. i e o l ( COMMISSIONER VENNEDY: No, I greatly appreciated it. I I CHAIRMAN AHEARNE: Vic, did you have any -- l I 2 MR. DIRCKS: No, just to say how much I found this l 1 talk very interesting from my own standpoint. l j j MR. .TELLO: No, we're moving forward with trying to I. 6 get the revision plan out. I think this meeting will serve l' 7 to make everyone aware of the importance of keeping that up. l l COMMISSIONER KENNEDY: If there's anything we can 3 do to help speed it, all you have to do is say. j MS. GLUSEN: Thank you. g 1 MR. DEAL: I'm sure you gentlemen know as much as g anyone how long it takes to get 13 Federal agencies to agree l e l on something. We do get them to the table. l ,,sa l CHAIRMAN AHEARNE: Well, it's certainly a very impor-I4 l l I tant effort th:lt you have. I hope we don't have to use it I5 l with the extent that we had to recently use it, but I'm glad is l that it's there. I7 COMMISSIONER KENNEDY: But, let me add, that I think if there were any benefits and it's hard to ascribe them to { a 19 i the Three Mile Island thing but they always are you learn 20 something. One of the things that is a benefit, I think we 21 l know a good deal more about what those capabilities are in O advance now than we did then. If you know more about what's i i available, you can plan to use it a lot better. l ~~ 24 CHAIRMAN AHEARNE: Let me reaffirm what Dick just i said. If there's anything that we can do to try to help you WTH wr u H due 53,The C.Wr"MA 17581 2 7. L e. WWFTT 'WF + . = - -
=.a v c w 27 ,a m l f ( push forward in that coordination of those agencies let us know, I because we might have to turn once again to its need and we l I would really appreciate it if that was all locked up and I l A ~ sealed at the time. i t j l MS. GLUSEN: Thank you, we appreciate that and we i I l 6 certainly will call on you. 7 MR. DEAL: Thank you, very much. I, i CHAIPSl1 AHEARNE: Thank you very much for coming. i 3 COMMISSIONER KENNEDY: Thanks very much and we 9 really appreciate your coming over. g I i (Whereupon the hearing adjourned at 4:14 p.m.) l Ie I s I3 i h t.s i i t4 1 17 18 19 l t 20 21 l i i Il 2 r,m, m v-m. :~ _ 'e me scuDe CM*Tt:L ffwgIT. L e. 3Jfft 'O =mu-}}