ML19290A018

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Deposition of Wj Dircks (NRC) on 790727 in Silver Spring,Md. Pp 1-18
ML19290A018
Person / Time
Site: Crane Constellation icon.png
Issue date: 07/27/1979
From: Dircks W, Helfman S
NRC OFFICE OF NUCLEAR MATERIAL SAFETY & SAFEGUARDS (NMSS), PRESIDENT'S COMMISSION ON THE ACCIDENT AT THREE MILE
To:
References
TASK-TF, TASK-TMR NUDOCS 7908280825
Download: ML19290A018 (18)


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Transcript of Proceedings o

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d UNITED STATES OF AMERICA 9

4 PRESIDENT'S CCMhISSION ON THE ACCIDENT AT g

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DEPOSITICN OF:

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DIRCKS e

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'dITNESS PAGE 3

'a' LLI AM J. DIRCKS Examinaticn b;,

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was called as a witness and, after bein5 firs duly sworn 4

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Q Would you please state your full name for the 10

record,

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Dircks?

A William J. Dircks.

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Have you ever hac your depos' tion taken before?

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A Yes.

a0 M?.. HELFMAN:

Let me go over just a few peints y-l i

1 as to the characteristics of a deposition.

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Your testimony that you will be giving new is sworn and will have the same solemnity and effect as though

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'o 1 provided with a ecpy Of it and af ferded an opp c.~: unity to g, I make any changes that you desire to =ake.

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2 imp o rt ant that you try to be as accurate as possible cday',

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3 because, i.' you make subs tantial changes ' n the deposition, i

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of the Reporter, to wait until I cc=plete my questions 3

before you begin your answe rs, and I will try c wait until I

4 you finish your answer before I begin my nex: question.

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is also necessary that you give audible responses so that s
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If you don't understand any questic n that I ask, j

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c. lease ask =e to clarif.y it.

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It is our normal practice, at the conclusicn of 10 a deposition, to continue it rather than terminate it.

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the event there is sc=ething further we want 0 as k y cu,

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2 we reconvene the deposition.

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13 Do yc2 have any questions about any o f that ?

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Did you bring a resume with you?

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Yes, I did, i

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i 49 MR. HELFMAN:

I would like to have this =arked i

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!s this resume an accurate reflection of your

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educational, professional and empicyr.ent history?

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Yes, it is accurate.

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Could you please state for the record what your i

3 title is at the.T9C and generally what your responsibilities sl are?

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I am the Director of the Nuclear.v.terial Safety a

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licensing ar.d regulatcry activities of all aspects of l

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Q Would your responsibilities include disposal 10 i of radioactive wastes?

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Yes.

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A We would be involved with the transportation le of the waste; we-would be involved with the eventual 17 disposal of the waste in a low-level waste burial grcund.

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So, you are also, to s cme e xtent, responsible i

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Is there another department of agency within l

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that reviews the coeration of low-level waste treatment 4

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Is the detemination as to the form that the i0 i

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Q Is there some reason for your department wishing

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The concern we have is that we would net like

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were an accident on the read, and not contain any liquid 1

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was te burial g_round.

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Q The waste that you are referring to is presently l

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where in the reactor?

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the resin beads.

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lt would be processed through their waste-i 1

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Q And this would produce what you referred to as l

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Resin beads, resin slush, resin sludge.

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Something like that.

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Or semi-licuid?

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Semi-liquid state.

What we want to do is look

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other processes such as turning the sludge into a cement.

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What is the danger that you perceive from 14 transporting this semi-liquid radioactive waste?

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Well, it would present considerable problems if I

16 there were an accident on the road and the cask broke open; i

g and the sludge would be extremely difficult to clean up.

Q How far does this sludge have te be transported 13,

frcm the site to the burial site?

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From what 1 gather, the plans are to move it to l

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Would this be transported by truck er by train?

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required?

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I heard an estimate somewhere around 500 truckloads..

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Apparently, you have an alternative approach to 4

preparing the was te for transport.

Could you describe 5I briefly what for= the vaste would take?

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These are people in Nuclear Material Safety and r

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The plan would be to devise a process that would i

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i 1-process at TMI, which would take the sludge and conver:

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A GPU or Met. Ed.

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I Our discussions with NRR so far have indicated 2l that they will discuss this pla. with us before they =ake 3

any de cisions.

I think the dispute is that we would like 4

to have more thar. the tail end of the discussion.

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want to be involved in the development of the solution.

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Would it be accurate te say that NRR presently i

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5 liquid form to the burial site, whereas your office favors I

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solidify:.ng the waste and shipping it in a totally solidified j i

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"' hat's fair to say.

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You mentioned a cost-bene fit analysis?

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Yes.

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Would it be accurate to say that a cost-benefit I

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It would be fair to say what the cenefit analysis i

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would do would be to determine.-hat, safety benefits ycu t

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Which of the two processes would you estima:e

i would be the most expensive, that proposed, at this stage, by NRR or that proposed, at this stage by your Office?

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'"he p ro c e s s we are recc=.ing would add costs.

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I think the main cost would be in terms cf time.

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The objective of NRR is to deal with the contaminated 3

water at the site as quickly as possible and get it off l

the site.

If they adopted our approach I am sure it would I

5 take a little bit lenger to deal with the water.

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Wculd you consider the preposal tha: your Office gii 1i.

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has supported to be the safer of the two methods of shipping i

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the waste?

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Frcm cur perspective, it would be safer.

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Q Could you tell me the names of the people at NRR l.

13 with whc= your Office has been dealing on this sub'ect?

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15 with Richard Vollmer, who is located in Bethesda. We have j

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with John Collins, who is locate d at the site of TMI, and l

we h ave had --

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A Yes.

And we have had a memorandum fre C011 ins I

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on that subj e:t of the =cve=ent of the waste.

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Do you have that memcrandum available 'n this

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su."e we do.

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C0uld y0u prcvide us with a ecpy?

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Let =e take a look and see if we even want it.

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(Witness cc= plies.)

4 (Discussion off the record.)

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Back on the record.

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Could you please provide us with a ecpy of the

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1etter to which you have referred?

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(Witness cc= plies.)

"'his is the =e=o Of John f

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Col'. ins to Robert Browning, of July 25, 1979 MR. HELFMAN:

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12 Could we please have this =arked as Exhibi: 2 to 13 the Depcsition.

It is a two-page document dated July 25, 1979

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Mr. Dircks, have there been past ac::ident n,

experiences with the transport of semi-liquid radioactive i,

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I don't know.

I knew that there had been a 22 gl recent case where so-called "dewatered resins" were l

.. d received at the 3eatty site in Nevada recent'y that was i

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water.

Tne Governcr of Nevada asked that the waste be I

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Have.vou received complaints frc= the Governors i.

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2 of any other states regarding the transport of liquid waste through their states or the burial of semi-liquid l

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wasts in their states?

A The Governer of South Carolina has refused to I

i allow liquid wastes in any form to be buried in his state,

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The Governor of Nevada now has also done the same thing.

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yet taken action.

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This letter which you have provided, frem John i

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Collins to Rcbert 3rowning, refers to a meeting on 1:

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., I July o,1979, between Mr. Collf as and NRC Chairman, I

i yl Mr. Hendrie.

Were there any represents of your office

4 cr division at that meeting?

A No.

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The letter also refers to a visit to the site I

of TMI-2 by Chain:an Hendrie, where there was a meeting i

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3 with representatives Of 0?C/ Met-Ed.

Were there any

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.I ig q representatives of your effice at that meeting?

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No.

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Q On Page 2, the letter refers to a copy of a trip 2:

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reptrt authcred by Oale Smith, addressed to John Martin, f

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23 i' reviewed by Mr. Cc111ns.

Have you seen that trip report?

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I haven't seen it, no.

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stt0es, "the current pcsition by NER is that the resins will not be solidified. "

Is thic your understanding of 2

the present position of NRR?

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That 's a nixed breed, I would say.

I was under 4

the impression that the Director of NRR was in favor of O

g !j solidifi:ation, Harold Denten.

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Where did you hear that?

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I heard it in a meeting where I brought up I

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I think it was in a Chair =an-staff teeting - I 2,

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In discussion of it, I got this l

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When was that meeting?

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I dcn't know.

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find that out.

But I don't know richt now.

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Q Within the las: =cnth?

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Within the last week?

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.No, no.

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Within the last two weeks?

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Three weeks, at the outset, I believe.

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Su then I got word that maybe 'l:11=er was nc i

in favor of it.

And I sucoose Vollmer was not in favor i

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3l cf it because he had heard fro = Collins, who was not in 1

favor of it.

So, I am not exactly sure wha: the position 3

cf NER is right new.

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his opinion, it was not necessary at this time to solidify l

the resins from EPICOR-II prior to shipment."

Is that your unders tandine of Chai.- =an Hendrie 's 5

pcsition, or do you know n'.s position?

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't Il A

At the meeting I was "eferring to, say, three 5l weeks ago, at the Chair =an-s taff meeting, I was under the f

g i=pression that the Chairman was in favor of solidification.

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Was that subsequent to his visit to TMI-2?

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No.

That was before his visit.

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Yes.

14

,5 M?.. HIL.S.AN:

"'hese are all the questicns I I

have for Mr. Dircks at t his t i=e.

Therefore, unless there

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i are questions from NRC counsel --

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- 1 throuch 15, and they are a true and a curate reecrd of -/ testimen

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1895 030 1'

Acme Recorting Commeny i

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CEr.IPICATE I certify that I have read this transcript and corrected any errors in the transcription that I have been able to identify, except for uninportant punctuation errors.

Date:

1895 031