ML19289C501

Transcript of 770826 Budget Meeting in Washington,Dc. Pp 1-21

ML19289C501
Person / Time
Issue date:	08/26/1977
From:	Bradford P, Gilinsky V, Hendrie J NRC COMMISSION (OCM)
To:
References
REF-10CFR9.7 NUDOCS 7901170021
Download: ML19289C501 (21)

Text

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NUCLEAR REGULATORY CCMMISSION l

BUDGEf 2

3 i

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5 6:

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Board Room 1717 H Street, N.W.

I g

Washington, D.

C.

l Friday, August 26, 1977 9

10 The Commission was convened at 11:10 a.m.,

Chairman 11 4 Joseph M.

Hendrie presiding.

12 :

PRESENT:

i.

13 l Joseph M. Hendrie, Chairman i

Peter A.

Bradford 14 Victor Gilinsky Richard T. Kennedy 15 l i

16 i I

17 l l

18 19 !

l 1

20 The corrections made on this transcript reflect those of 21,

the Office of the Comptroller

'k and Office of the Secretary.

22 l

. lj

. fts nl VB \\

. A. 3. J. I RM A

c... eer.: aeooners. inc.,

25 444 N. Capitoi Street (Smte 400)

Washington, D. C.

20001 7 9 0117 0 0M

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l 1

EEEEEEEEEEE 2;

CHAIRMAN HENDRIE:

Let's do NMSS.

l i3j MR. GOSSICK:

Len, do you want to explain the 4

chart we have over there with new nwnbers?

~

i 5l MR. BARRY:

If you take the one on top, it looks

[

i i

6:

like it's scratched out, but I think we can take you through l

1 l

7 it.

l 8!

If you look in the first column, you will see where {

i 9

we have put some penciled figures in there.

And you can 10 ;

see we do have the numbers straightened out now c3 NMSS, 11 although the numbers have changed a little bit again.

f i

I 12 l If you will look under where I have written FY 77, j

t i

i 13 you can see what their positions are in

'77.

i l

14 l And then the next column, in parens, are the 1

15 i numbers that if they had gotten an amendment this year, those 16 are the numbers that they would have requested.

And they 17 total 304.

la !

And then, without that, using the baseline of 289, 19 which I think is a fact of life now, you can see the numbers 29 ;

by function.

l l

21 And then finally, over in the extreme right-hand 22 ;

column, you can see the EO mark and the increases.

I 23 l CHAIRMAN HENDRIE:

I see numerous changes frcm the i

24 numbers read --

-ahuel Reponen, Inc. f 25 '

MR. BARRY:

Right.

t i

3 i

i 1

CHAIRMAN HENDRIE:

I can go right down the line and l

erase them all.

2; I

l 3*

MR. BARRY:

What it boils down to on the increase 1

4j is in transportation, they have 17 in

'77.

They would mts$

5 procose 17 in '78 at the 289 auwNt.

And they would like an a

E l

l 4

6' increase of 2 in '79.

i 7 1 Waste Management, you track across, would like 8

an increase of 3.

9j Radioisotope Licensing, they would like an increase i

10 l of 10.

And then you can see on down below, there is 3 more --

11 l Threat Assessmen.

Safeguards, and 2 more in Safeguard 12 i Regulatory Improvements.

That totals your 20.

h Qp 13 ;

JETT GILINSKY:

So it looks like Safeguards is

[

i 14 l increasing.

l 15 l MR. GOSSICK:

That's right.

And I might note that l

l I

i 16,

in their reclama of the BRG mark which was 124, which is i

17t exactly what they r re going to have in FY 78, the 5 spaces 18 l that I got soft on, if you will, and gave back, making their l

19 l total 129, there were 3 h1 Contingency Plans,one in Safeguards 1

i, 20 i Licensing, one in National Safeguards.

I i

21 1 I see they are proposing rather now under this 22 '

breakout to put the 3 in Contingency Plans, but the other 2 23 in Regulatory Improvements which I would at least think is 24 suspect.

I don' t think I would go along with that.

Ace Gederal Reporters, Inc.

25 ;

MR. BARRY:

I can tell you for the 3 and 2 what

4 i

i ilI the difference in impact is.

2l In other words, in the Threat Assessment, if you 3

limit it to 3, what that would mean is that in implementing i

4 their headquarters contingency plan, the master plan, I guess, I

S for contingency, it would be an 8-month plan instead of a

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l 6:

4-month plan.

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^^

7

. GILINSKY:

You know, they have been doing i

a' threat assessment for 2 years now.

9!

MR. BARRY:

I understand.

0su &

n, 10 l kr GILINSKY:

It seems to me that ought to wind I

11 l down.

i 1

12 MR. BARRY:

I agree with you.

All I'm saying is i

i i

13 l they are saying it would take them 4 extra months.

l CMLAAw 1.t M. GILINSKY:

So they take it out of the Threat l

15 ;

Assessment for the Contingency Planning.

That just doesn't 16 l make any sense to me.

i 17 MR. BARRY:

They say that there would be -- completion 18 ;

of their autcmated threat assessment system would take them l

19 l 1 year versus 18 months.

l l

C 20 l

{*"4R-GILINSKY:

I don't know whether we need an h

21 automatic threat assessment.

i 22 '

MR. BARRY:

That's really the impact of these 3 p _ W ~h "'"7 g j,m a,a 23 people.

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+1P GILINSKY :

Cnat.C_~.ei.

Acs eederst Recor$rs, Inc.

NIR. GCSSICK:

I think my recccmendation would be l

5 I

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l i

1l

.to certainly not let the Safeguards grow and hold them at I

2t 124.

71

% utaccuhL v

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3

-MR. GILINSKY:

We were talking about reducing i

4 Safeguards by about 5.

I 5,

MR. GOSSICK:

Well, I'll mark it.

Until this thing I

6i developed, it was a reduction of a couple of spaces.

Omww.w.w 7f

' ER. GILINSKY:

Whatever it was, we were talking J

8i about turning it around a little bit.

I i

9!

MR. GOSSICK:

This is 131 under their planned mark, I

r 10 !

and 129 under my mark.

And I guess I would announce that you e

I i

11 are going to have 124 in '78 which would certainly hold it at 12 124.

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13 l

-MR.

GILINSKY:

You were originally going to give 14 the't how many?

15 ;

MR. GOSSICK:

For Safeguards totally, all Safeguards!

16 l functions, my mark was 129.

h 17 ;l

& n,> u N.> w t,

-MRr-GILINSKY :

And that was down from what they 7,

i 18 thought they --

l 19 '

/, MR.,GOSSICK:

Down from 131.

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),

20 l MR. GILINSKY:

Which they thought they were going II l

21, to have.

22 ;

MR. GOSSICK:

Which they thought they were going i

23 :

to have, assuming that --

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p+a.mGILINSKY:

I sure wouldn't go over the 124.

'r' 24

!R :

r o c.dersi Reporters, inc. !

25 CHAIRMAN HENDRIE:

Tell me what that means in i

il

6 l

I 1

decision units.

2 MR. GOSSICK:

That means not giving them the plus 1

2 3 and plus 2 at the bottom of the sheet on the right-hand I

4' side.

Scratch those.

~ !

5 MR. BARRY:

Would you hold Contingency Planning 6i to 21?

i l

7 MR. GOSSICK:

Right.

I 3l MR. BARRY:

And hold Safeguards Regulatory l

9 Improvements to 24.

10 MR. GOSSICK:

Right.

11 CHAIRMAN HENDRIE:

I must say --

12 '

MR. GOSSICK:

I think it's improving so much that f

13 may be improving too far.

i 14 CHAIRMAN HENDRIE:

-- the string of numbers is l

15 then 21, 23, 13, 13, and 24, and what does that add up to?

16 MR. GOSSICK:

I think you lef t out the 30.

124.

I i

17 CHAIRMAN HENDRIE:

And I need the 30 just above it, 18 and that's the Safeguards Division, and that is 124, right?

19 MR. GOSSICK:

Right.

And the numbers in how legs 20 if you want that is 131.

That is the type numbers which they i

21 l thought they would have had even though they got their I

22 amendment.

j i

23 l And the '77 number is 125.

So they are actually 24 l going from 125 in this fiscal year down 1 to 124 in FY 79.

s.o.r.i neoon.n,inc.,

25 CHAIRMAN HENDRIE:

Okay.

i

7 l

1 MR. GOSSICK:

You have to add the 30 Safeguards 2,

Licensing, starting with --

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-MR.

GILINSKY:

Oh, I see; up there.

i 4,

CHAIRMAN HENDRIE:

You have to go up just a smidge.

0 m+EhwA w KENNEDY:

That makes a total out or. 304.

v 5,

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6 MR. GOSSICK:

Right, 304.

l l

7 CHAIRMAN HANDRIE:

Assuming we allow the 15 above.

b.w.

l c

(b 8l 9Eh GILINSKY:

Let me ask you, why this trans-i l

i 9

portation increase?

Is there going to be more transportation 10 ;l in the future since the requirements have gone up?

11 I guess what concerns.me here is we justified i

12 increases in the past on the basis that you had to build up 13 this tremendous regulatory program which didn't exist before.

l 14 Now, they ought to be exercising that.

And you don't need 15 ;

all these people who were developing thie program from l

s 16 scratch, or at least you don' t need as many of them or con-l 17l ceptualizing the whole thing and laying it all out, writing 18 all the standards and everything.

'9 2his is a couple of years down the road.

Why do l

l i

l 20 ;

we need so many people?

l 21 l MR. BARRY:

I am trying to read what they say the i

22 i difference between their level 1 and level 2 is.

And that 's l

23 i what we are talkina about.

F L />L t HJ" j$'7 24 l Max-GILINSKY:

What is safe transportation?

L.M*1 eras Reporters, Inc. '

25 MR. BARRY:

What did you say?

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8 l

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CHAIRMAN HENDRIE:

There are 17 now.

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2; HHR. GILINSKY:

Why isn't that enough?

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3, MR. BARRY:

They say for the additional 2, level 2, l

1 4!

which is the additional 2, provides for post-licensing review -

i 5-of 15 percent of approved package designs, all needed package l

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6!

testing, and initial development of standard-size -methods of i

7j package design (inaudible).

8 I recall back, their main pitch for the 2 is they I

9 haven't done enough work on testing and improving package 10 !

design.

bw e"

n

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+Eh GILINSKY:

What are the other 17.

There are a i

12 ;

lot of people here who are just putting programs together.

13 l I

MR. GOSSICK:

No, this is a continuing review of i

14 ;

all package designs.

We have to review and approve all 15 l packages in shipping this stuff (inaudible) and the whole I

16 '

works.

l 17 '

So there is a fair amount of licensing workload i

18 there and quite a backlog, as I understand it, of packages l

19 that have to be reviewed and approved.

20 I would assume also in this area would be that modal 1

21 !

transportation effort --

l 22 !

MR. BARRY:

That was the add-on.

That's right, i

23 l They wanted 1 man for the modal transportation.

We didn't I

24 give them that.

Plus the follow-ons in '80/'81.

So 17 would keJederal Reporters, Inc. l 25,

soften that a little bit.

They could absorb that modal l

9 l

1l transportation study within this amount if you wanted to be 2I that gracious.

3 And, of course, dhey assume that after the modal 4l transportation study for '79, there will be another one in l

5

'80/'81 7

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6; MR. GILINSKY:

You know, we have got 120 persons i

i 7{

in Safeguards to handle really about a dozen facilities.

I I

3j That is about 10 per facility when you think about it.

That l

i 9j is an awful lot.

There are about 10 facilities that have what 10 we call strategic quantities or 14.

II MR. GOSSICK:

The material accounting and other 12 safeguards activities apply to some 50 or 60 fuel cycle 13 l facilities all told.

&vrw 1

14 '

MRT GILINSKY:

That's pretty minor stuff.

That's 15 low enriched uranium.

Basically, there are about a dozen i

16 facilities that have more than 5 kg of U-235 or sclue quantity 17 ! of plutonium.

We have about 10 of these guys per facility l

18 which is comparable with the guard force or at least a 19 l fraction of the guard force at these facilities.

20,

The reason we did that is because we were getting i

21 f ready for a many-fold expansion which is not taking place, l

22 at least for some time.

It is really hard to understand why 23 l we need so many people.

24 CHAIRMAN HENDRIE:

I take it there is no increase in acsJeceral Reporters, Inc.

25 people?

i i

10 e

1 You know, if you want to go back and wack the i

2 Safeguards Division 10 people, I think we have got kind of a i

3 more extensive headache than the one we handled this morning.

h,wd i

4

1. GL GILINSKY:

I think what we may want to think 5

about later is give them some other things to do.

I 6

MR. GO SICK:

This may be a place to go on some l

i 7j reallocation exercise that we have to do.

&ttA O

fk 8l PEE. GILINSKY:

Or at least reallocate responsi-9 bilities so they are occupied.

10 CHAIRMAN HENDRIE:

But from the standpoint of 11 moving ahead on these, why don't we hold Transportation level 12 which eliminates the plus 2 there, Waste Management -- let's l

l 13 see.

The Radioisotope Licensing, we agreed we want to make a 14 substantial effort to reduce that backlog and improve that 15 l so the plus 10 there, I believe would agree with the EDO.

16 So that that would go to 37.

There was no --

17 MR. BARRY:

47.

It would go to 47.

18 CHAIRMAN HENDRIE:

47.

How true.

19 Ocerations and Technology would stay at 28.

That l

I 20 l allows me to back up and look at Waste Management.

Do you I

21 -

want to allow the 3 in there?

I

('Mt&R t-* 1 (>tW

h 22 l 4U4. GILLINSKY

What is Operations and Technology?

l i

23 ;

CHAIRMAN HENDRIE:

Develops, evaluates and improves 24 l the technical base and regulatory procedures for the fuel w.e.r.i s.ocrt.ri inc.

25 cycle and materials program.

I

11 i

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4GE. GILINSKY:

Who licenses, say, a fuel fabrication 2

plant?

l 3'

CHAIRMAN HENDRIE:

I would assume

..t is the 4!

Uranium Fuel Cycle Branch.

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GILINSKY:

So they are really licensing.

p 5-

- 6!

MR. COOPER:

They are the generic shop of NMSS I

7l support operations and techniques.

I 3

MR. GOSSICK:

But it isn't a shop.

Remember, we are 9

talking decisions units.

These are people scattered around 10 different places, Honer Lowenberg and the guys who are dealing 11 with --

i 12 l MR. BARRY:

It is not a discrete branch; it is 13 spread throughout the organization.

14 CHAIRMAN HENDRIE:

It's that chunk of generic work 15 in each of the branches that is concerned with trying to 16 decide if in general they are doing the right thing in im-17 provement.

18 !

They had asked for --

wow e

19 idJr. GILINSKY:

39.

//',

20 CHAIRMAN HENDRIE:

-- 39, and the EDC RG agreed h,)

21 28 was adequate which is one less than their level 1 which 1

22 is suggestive in itself.

I would be inclined to leave it at 23:

that rather than cut it further.

24 MR. GOSSIcK:

In this particular case, that is

-aheral Reporters, Inc.

25 l exactly Bill Bishop's outfit.

There is a one-to-one l

i

12 l

l 1

relationship between that decision unit and the added for l

l 2

Waste Management.

j 3i CHAIRMAN HENDRIE:

They have got 34 people this l

l 4

year; they are going to 40 in

'78.

I guess that is correct, l

l 5

Len, is it?

I l

6 MR. BARRY:

Yes, sir.

l i

7 !

CHAIRMAN HENDRIE:

The proposal is to go to 43.

8 MR. BARRY:

And we had asked for 20 more in our 1

9i amendmant; OMB agreed on 10 until the c nendment fell out.

a 10.

I think we have got to show an increase there.

l 11 CHAIRMAN HENDRIE:

Well, I would let the 3 stand 12 although I must say that the write-up as you go from le'cel i

13 1 to level 2 is not auspicious.

Level 1 says it will meet i

14 all the basic objectives.

Level 2 says provide,s for additional:

15 effort on regulations as well as completion of assessment 1

16 methodologies.

17 There was not an inspiring increment on level 2.

I 18 think you are going to get some argument there from your friends.

19 MR. BARRY:

We 'll see to that write-up, that it is 1

20 drastically improved.

l 21 CHAIRMAN HENDRIE:

Okay to allow the 3 going in i

22 there?

Waste Management is one of our favorite subjects I

23 these days.

That would bring them to 43 plus 3 and would be t

1 24 an allowance of plus 13 for the whole NMSS which would take ameras neoa... t m. ;

25 !

them to 302.

Is that correct?

I f

4

l 1

MR. COOPER:

That's correct.

i

'I l

I 2l CHAIRMAN HENDRIE:

All of those confirming voices i

3 there; I think that is it.

Right?

We now have a budget.

4 t

5 How many people are we ending up asking for?

i i

4 6 !

MR. BARRY:

That comes out to 2,999.

I think you l

7{

planned it that way, Mr. Chairman, from our conversation 3

yesterday.

You are.like a woman's dress, the dress is i

9, never -

&FM< M N" 10 l

-MR. KENNEDY:

That is bad optics.

I would be

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11 happier at 98 or 301.

i 12 !

MR. BARRY:

You can give me that cur trol ex=ense I

13 f back.

i 14 l MR. GOSSICK:

Do you want to recheck your numbers?

r.

c.

I umwi eW 15.i M&. KENNEDY:

That's what it is.

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+&.

GILINSKY:

It does look a little contrived.

(

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17 MR. BRADFORD:

(inaudible).

18 i CHAIRMAN HENDRIE:

I think it's a bargain operation.

p 19 l Je.M -

.MR. KENNEDY:

That's exactly the way they will carry j j

20 it.

l 21 l MR. COOPER:

It will only be that way through one 22 l review, the OMB review.

It will be a different number.

23 CHAIRMAN HENDRIE:

Okay, and what is going to be 24 then approximately the agency grcss dollars?

AceJederal Re00rters, Inc.

25 MR. BARRY:

Let me tell you it is somewhere around

14 I

a i

I t

1

-- because we have got to fine tune administration support --

I t

2l CHAIRMAN HENDRIE:

Yes, I know, I know.

Where is i

3l it?

4 MR. BARRY:

Somewhere around $ 347 million -- maybe i

l 5

$348, maybe $346.

6 CHAIRMAN HENDRIE:

That's enough over the initial i

I I

7i mark of the OMB to show we are an independent agency.

l 0 % al -

8 M.

GILINSKY:

What was their mark?

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9 CHAIRMAN HENDRIE:

330.

i 10 MR. 3ARRY.

Let me address that just to give you 11 j a little perspective.

12 '

CHAIRMAN HENDRIE:

Well, we understand there were i

13 l some things that they had neglected to take account of in i

14 ;

there.

i 15 MR. BARRY:

That would be about a $57, S58 million l

16 ;

increase over our '78 budget baseline.

LCrl-37 17 As I mentioned to you earlier,(inaudible) picks 18 l up $15 million, inflation eats up about $13 million, you have i

19 got another $12 million worth of new items, and you have got i

i 20 about $9 million worth of people.

i 21 So you have got in fact about S8 or $9 million 22 worth of program support which is not really --

23 MR. GOSSICK:

We will proceed to put this toge ther 24 in the appropriate format and take it frcm here, weoerei Repor+ rs. inc.

25 CHAIRMAN EENDFIE:

I think it would be useful for i

15 i

l I

i 1

you to provide the Commission just a little summary sheet l

l 2,

that says, "as a result of the review of the following," and l

l 3

then break it down by the things which I think are of 4l significance because they are negotiating items, are the 5

people and the support program dollars.

i 6l You could give us --~certainly, we want the agency 7l total dollars, but in terms of looking at what we have done l

8!

in the various offices, it is the people and the program I

l 9

support dollars.

And I think it would be interesting to have 10 that in terms of

'77,

'78,

'79.

I 11 And then the agency total dollars,

'77,

'78,

'79, i

12 i proposed so that we sort of have a one page that says "here 13 is what we did,at the markup session. "

i KY:

I think this is the first time the 14 l m at M w - r yp..ys.

1 15,

Commission has dinaudibicF.

i 16 l MR. GOSSICK:

What I would propose to do now is to i

17 l let the of fice directors know what their mark is and make la,

the standard speech we make every time that when they go to i

19 OMB, this is the number they are going to be defending and E

l 20 not some higher number.

CHAIRMLI HENDRIE:

Well, I guess we probably have 21 ;

1 22 managed to hurt one of the office directors or division i

23 directors or what, cut him right to t. e quick, with scme 24 of these actions in terms of what he thinks he needs to take

ces.oe, i n con.n. inc.

25 '

care of his responsibilities.

And I am rather relaxed.

If 1

16 I

I i

l j

a guy wants to be allowed to say to OMB, you know, "here I am l

2 and this is the level that I'm speaking to, but I want you to 3

know my opinion is that this is too low, and I ought to have j

l I

4 such and such," I don't think he ought to shoot a lot of his 5

time into arguing his number versus the Commission mark.

l C/

6l W. KENNEDY:

Nor should he at any point so phrase

'[

l 71 his approach along these lines that it would imply that i

i 3;

somewhere else in the total could be found whatever he needs.

9j CHAIRMAN HENDRIE:

Yes, he better stick strictly 10 to his own affair.

I don't want a lot of, you know, he's 11 !

got too many people anyway, sort of thing.

i l

v1 U

12

-MR-KENNEDY:

You don't have to do it quite that i

13 1 baldly, but the effect can be the same.

i 14 CHAIRMAN HENDRIE:

I think that is quite a valid 15 point.

I won't make any further rules.

I just suggest that i

16 I'm relatively relaxed about those things where a guy really l

17 !

feels cut terribly badly.

l 18 '

MR. GOSSICK:

I think human nature being what it I

19 l is, notwithstanding, I charge to them that they should support {

l 20 j the Commission's budget.

Probably some of that will bleed 0,

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Cs.cLN wAb cb c.u.s (lL) f 21 l through,g([4aaC_.,14

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22 y. KENNEDY:

It already has.

f

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y 23 j MR. GILINSKY:

They are not likely to get too much

[

24 i sympathy over there.

+3ece,si aeoone,s. inc.

25 MR. GOSSICK:

That's right.

I'm not sure some of i

i

17 I'

l 1

the people understand that.

As a strai htforward tactical 2

CHAIRMAN HENDRIE:

7 3

matter, it is an advantage.

4 MR. BARRY:

Did you want to off the o#fice

• I I

5 directors any last discussion either with the Commission or 6;

yourself, Mr. Chairman, or do you want to say "this is it"?

l n

I

(,bt n me p

7:

MR. KENNEDY:

At some point, there has to be a j

a Commission decision.

We have already done it once, haven't i

9' we?

10 !

MR. GOSSICK:

This is it.

I don't think you are l

l 11 l going to get any screams.

12 !

CHAIRMAN HENDRIE:

I think it is going to be l

13 rather difficult, too, in terms of the timing of things.

14 Next week, we will not be meeting until Thursday.

I'll be 15 away until Wednesday afternoon.

Peter has got less time out 16 than that, but --

howmMN*

17

+Hr. BRADFORD :

I'.11 he here Tuesday.

18 l CHAIRMAN HENDRIE:

So the rest of fou could in 19 fact meet if necessary.

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itR GILINSKY:

I don't think we should.

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MR. BARRY:

I'm not encouraging it.

I have my i

22 :

hands full just to put it all together now and get it over l

23 there.

1 24 !

CHAIRMAN HENDRIE:

I think with the legislation 1 :vderat Reporters, Inc.,

25 time scale, with the time running, I think you ought to

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think whether you ought to get together Tuesday and grop towards some of those things at least on the. separable items 2

3.

which I'm sorry we are not going to get to this morning.

t t

4i Anyway, I think we ought to regard this as a final 5

mark unless there is really extraordinary need to reconsider.

6 And I put it in those terms to the office directors.

7l I suggest you make them feel you went over it l

a amply, and it would really take an extraordinary circumstance 9;

to reopen.

Is that fair?

10 MR. BLRRY:

I would like to mention one more item 11 l if I may which relates to this.

Under the gressure of time and 12 l business, we haven't been able to formally get to you all, but 13 l we have talked to Lee, on the year-end financial review of l

14 l

'77.

15 l We have done a review, we have identified a l

16 l potential unobligated balance.

We have taken some actions l

17 l to reduce that as a matter of expediency because if we didn't 18 ;

do it last week, the opportunity would be lost.

But there is 19 some actions that need to be taken.

I 20 f I would like, of course, as you know, to cave our 21 unabligated balances as low as possible.

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LM -

t 22 l 4ER. KENNEDY:

When is the last date which we can

\\

23 l move on this?

We are getting close to the 30-day rule, aren't 24 !

we?

, s dwal Reconus. Inc.

e 25,

MR. BARRY:

Yes.

And, of course, the last day for i

19 I

j a little bit of the money is the last day of the year.

But l

21 I'm to the point where we have just a little over $6 million 3

that might be unobligated if we don' t take some actions.

i 4

Of that S6.2 million, there is $4.7 million in 5

research which can be reprogrammed very quickly on commitments 1

6l that are already in contracts.

But we j us t can ' t ge t them I

7l out of contracts.

l a

There is too much at the tail end of the year there.

9 But that can be reprogrammed very cuickly.

And then we can 10 honor those commitments af ter the first of the year, pay back 11 l and come out even.

12,

If we do that

- and I very carefully have gone i

13 l through every one of those, as Lee is aware of -- that leaves l

14 us with about $1.5 million roughly of unabligated money which 15 is a pretty good record for this agency.

I can use that.

16,

We are going to have increasing ADP requirements l

17 in ' 78 which are not in the budget as we are having to come 18 up with ERDA and HEW and et cetera, et cetera.

19 I am going to be underfunded in ADP.

I can use scme of it there.

I can use a little bit in assisting 20 l.

l 21 perhaps Mr. Ca e in Safeguards if we don' t get all our Safe-22 l guards money, the $600,000 in our supplemental budget.

i I

There are 2 or 3 other places that we can easily 23 1

24 use the additional $700,000 -- easily.

I have given Mr.

Ace Gederal Aeoorters, Inc.

25 ;

Chilk about $400,000 for microfiche That is really not i

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I all he is entitled to.

2i CHAIRMAN HENDRIE:

I recommend that you do such 3;

things as are legal and reasonable to get the unabligated --

4 MR. BARRY:

These actions would fully comply with I

i 5'

the spiri'. and intent of Mr. Carter's letter in which he 6

says no year end flurry of buying, no big buy a lot of supplies 7

ahead, there is none of that in here.

These are all approved, l

at ongoing programs which were either simply underfinanced or l

9l simply by virtue of resource limitations, we can't get it out 10 '

of contracts, but we have got them in contracts so they are l

11 l committed.

i 12 l CRAIRMAN HENDRIE:

Okay.

Fair enough?

vO &

1 3

13

+Hr. KENNEDY:

All right.

14 CHAIRMAN HENDRIE:

I have looked at some of these 15 things at times in the past in other places.

If there is an 16 area in which you could spend a couple hundred hours under-l' !

standing all the ins and outs so you really felt you were in 7

l 18 '

full command, this is it.

19 I feel compelled to either put a couple hundred 20 hours2.314815e-4 days <br />0.00556 hours <br />3.306878e-5 weeks <br />7.61e-6 months <br /> in or say "do what is proper and reasonable, our blessing."

21 ;

And I prefer the latter.

22 MR. COOPER:

I assure you, we have already spent 23:

these couple hundred hours.

24,

MR. BARRY:

We have spent a good many evenings the wsame Aeoonen. inc.

25 last 2 weeks going through this.

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ll 21 i

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CHAIRMAN HENDRIE:

Okay.

I would like now to move i

2l to the personnel matter.

3 (Whereupon, at 11:40 a.m.,

the meeting was 4

adjourned.)

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