ML19263F365

Transcript of 791221 Public Meeting in Washington,Dc.Pp 1-56.Draft Policy Planning & Program Guidance,FY82-86 Encl

ML19263F365
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Issue date:	12/21/1979
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REF-10CFR9.7 NUDOCS 8001280027
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NUCLEAR REGULATORY COMMISSION IN THE MATTER OF:

PUBLIC MEETING CONTINUATION OF BRIEFING ON POLICY, PLANNING & PROGRAM GUIDE Place -

Washington, D. C.

Date.

Friday, 21 December 1979 Pages 1-56 Tetecam:

(Ckaid 2C2) $47-6222 ACE - FEDERAL REPORTERS, INC.

Official Reporters

'1816} 415 Second Street, H.E. Washington, D. C. 20002 MATMDLT.02 COVERAGE OM 8001280 .(

1 "R8896 DISCLAIMER This is an unofficial transcript of a meeting of the United States Nuclear Regulatory Commission held on Fridav, 21 December 1979 in the Commissions's offices at 1717 H Street, N. W., Washington, D. C. The meeting was open to public attendance and observation. This transcript has not been reviewed, corrected, or edited, and it may contain ' inaccuracies. The transcript is intended solely for general informational purposes. As provided by 10 CFR 9.103, it is not part of the formal or informal record of decision of the matters discussed. Expressions of opinion in this transcript do not necessarily reflect final determinations or beliefs. No pleading or other paper may be filed with the Commission in any proceeding as the result of or addressed to any statement or argument contained herein, except as the Commission may authorize. 1816 526

2 ,CR8896 1 UNITED STATES OF AMERICA 2 NUCLEAR REGULATORY COMMISSION 3 PUBLIC MEETING 4 l CONTINUATION OF BRIEFING ON POLICY, l 5 PLANNING & PROGRAM GUIDE l 6 7 Room 1130 I 1717 H Street, N.W. 8 Washington, D. C. 9 Friday, 21 December 1979 j 10 The Commission met, pursuant to notice, at 1:35 p.m. l 11 BEFORE: 12 JOHN F. AHEARNE, Chairman of the Commission 13 VICTOR GILINSKY, Commissioner 14 i JOSEPH M. HENDRIE, Commissionar 15 PETER A. BRADFORD, Commissioner i 16 l ALSO PRESENT-i 17 4 Messrs. Heller, Hanrahan, Beckerley, Chilk, Bickwit, landFouchard. 18 l l l 19 'l 20 21 22 23 i 24 l l te seral Reporters, Inc. 1816 32i' 25 i I

8vo0?01 3 -ashMM i CHAIHMAN AHEARNE: This hopefully is a meeting in 2 wnicn we will decide in a document which we will send back 3 to the staf r to11owing the PPPG developments schedule, I 4 guess triple PG is better, developments schedule, which b would then have the staff begin to try to put any comments 6 together that they have on our decisions and begin to fold 7 in the rest of the document. c Since this is the last day tha t the commission in all v will be around for two weeks, it seems to be that we either 10 de it today or recognize tna t we have slipped that 11 significant staff development time. 12 Now wnst Ed ha s done i s to put together a book. 13 MR. HANHAHAN: Some are green and some are black. 14 CHAIR:/,AN AHE ARNE: Joe, do you have one? 15 "R. BiCKERLEY: He aidn't want the cook. lo CHAIRi4AN AHEARNE: Right. 17 COMMISSIONER HENDRIE: Notice the f rugal, le ef r ective engineering a pproach here. 19 CHAIRM,d AHEARNE: Yes. What I pro pose to do is 20 go through each page and see whether we can get some kind of 21 agreement. 22 Col.0tISSIONER HENDRIE: You wouldn't care to 23 reschecule f or fuesday af ternoon? 24 (Laughter.) 25 CHAIRMAN AHEARNE: No, I really wouldn't. 1816 328

ov60902 4 - a sh!/,M 1 COMMISSIONER GILINSLY: Are we that f ar along? 2 MR. HANRAHAN I hope to be that far along, 3 Co mmi ssi on e r. 4 CHAIRMAN AHEARNE: The issue is tha t we are a t the 5 stage wnere the staff has got to begin, at least begin to o put together f olding and their programs that go oehind this. 7 Anc if we are going to have hopes of really impacting 6 upon the budget preparation and f urther development, we ought to at least go through another cycle of this. y 10 But in order to do that cycle, we have to get some thing 11 back to them. 12 COMMISS'.ONER GILINSKY: Grou p planning wi th 13 policy -- 14 COMMISSIONER HENJRIE: The left-hand side is the Ib old, the right-nand pages are the new. 16 (Laughter.) 17 COMMI SSIONER HENDRIE: I don't think you defeated 16 tr.e question. fry again. IV CHAIRMAN AHEARNE: I know. But I can see a long 20 arternoon if I didn't swi tc h to the right. 21 (Laugnter.) 22 COMMISSIONER GILIN5KY: But that was usef ul. 23 COMMISS10 DER HENDRIE: Especially on the next 24 page, where they dele ted everything. It really speeds 20 things up. 1816 329

SY60f03 5 g s hMv. 1 COMMISSIONER GILINSKY: Wny do you put pl anning 2 with policy ratner than planning guidance with program 3 guidance? 4 )R. HANRAHAN: t he ra tionale there was that the 5 program gutaance would enange in much more detail f rom year o to year, wlere policy and planning guidance would have a 7 more longer lasting, nopef ully, at least, lif e to i t. o C'.)MMI SS IONER HENDR I E You have to recognize the v nierarcny of the words, policy, pl ann ing, and program. It 10 tooK me sometime to get straightened out. I kept thinking .11 it was planning, policy, and program. 12 COMMISSIONER GILINSKY: It's like strategy and 13 tactics. 14 CHAIRMAN AHEARNE: Exactly. ~ 15 COMMISSIONER HENDRIE: Once you accept their lo definition of the hierarchial order, why, then it fits. 17 COMMISd IONER GILINSKf I have to say that I'd to like to record this. I don't like the name, poli cy, 19 planning, and program guidance, but we can go on f rom there. 20 CHAIRMAN AHEARNE: Going on to line 3 how does 21 Fiscal year 'a2 to '86 -- 22 (Laughter.) 23 f.'. R. HANRAHAN: If I could just make a brief 24 explantion of wnat we have done here. Tne left-hand page 2b has the same piece, the same craft that you saw.last when we 9 1816 330

-960/04 6 asnMM i di scu ss ed the last time, no c hange s. 2 The rignt-hand page nas tne change s to it. Now the 3 aesire was to only nave the c nange s here, but the desire and 4 the actualization cian't quite come tog e t ne r. And so we've b got more than is here. c However, I can nopef ully guide you to the things that 7 nave been changed so that we can jump over things that ha ve o not been changed witnout too much dif f icul ty. v The first pa g e, particularly introduction, follows in 10 large measure the editing t ha t Commi ssioner Bradf ord did. Il So the shortening of it was his attempt at surgery to 12 remove tne near-terminal verbosity. 13 CO'4MISSIONER GILINSKY : Could I ask you about 14 level or protection? Vlhen you say level of protection, does i IS t ha t mean some limitation of risk, or is that simply a 16 shorthand f or the sum total of all requirements out there? 17 MR. HANRAHAN I guess I con't understand sum to total of c11 requirements. IV C01MISSIONER GILINSKY: Wall, we've talked 20 about 21 MR. HANRAHAN I think it's related to risk, sir. 22 COMMISSIONER GILINSKY: We talked about trying to 23 set an objective for saf ety and then regulating against that 24 oo jec tive. 25 And I certainly think that that's an impor tant thing to 1816 331

6960x05 7 g s n.;4M i aim for. 2 But at t ne same time, a s I recogni ze, it's not an easy 3 thing to ao anc we're not in a po si tion to do i t righ t now. 4 And, t he ref ore, it wasn't clear to me whether the level 5 of protection talks about t ha t, that overall standard that o we're aiming for, or it is simply an expression of our 7 requirements on various systems, c MR. HANRAHAN: I tnink it's the overall standard v which carries with it the conce pts of risk as well as -- 10 COMMISSIONER GILINSKY: In that case, you say in 11 protecting the public, NRC must determine what level of risk 12 protection is adequate. 13 ?le ll, we're not in a position to do that now because we 14 have scme difficulty in simply defining a level of 15 protection. Io MR. HANRAHAN But you do that im pl ic i tly. 17 COMMISSIONER GILINSKY: Tnat's what I'm asking to you. 19 MR. HANRAHAN: It is implicated in having every 20 regulatory decision. There is some ~ plici t de termination a 21 or an active level of protection. 22 COMMISSIONER GILINSKY: Okay. 23 MR. HANdAHA;4 Trying to get b a c k -- I ' m no t 24 pusning you orf, but in t he policy area, wri tten in terms of 25 trying to make it an explicit expression of t ha t ra ther than 1816 332

6V60906 8 , g shiAM i the implicit expression, implicit actions that exist to 2 date. 3 COMMISSIONER GILIN5KY: Look, we're giving 4 guiaance to the staff here. W ha t is it that we're telling 5 them? 6 CHAIRMAN AHEARNE: Remember what we did is we 7 pulled out a lot of things last time, compressed it and just 6 put one in the oackground introduc tion. Y MR. HANRAHAN: This is the backdrop against which 10 the rest of it is to be taken. Il MR. BECKERLEY: It gets clarified a little bit in 12 some of the explici t polic ie s. 13 COMMISSIONER GILINSKY: I guess af ter hearing your 14 answer, it seems to me tha t this statement seems to say more i 15 than in fact -- and it does say, or is intended to say -- 16 MR. BdCKERLEY: Could I suggest an alternate way 17 of saying it? Why not just say in protecting the public, Ic NhC must consider whether the level of protection is IV acequate and whether there is adequate assurance that this 20 level of protection is achieved and maintained? 21 In other words, it doe sn't state a policy, but it just 22 say s that this is on the agenda. 23 CHAIRMAN AHEARNE: Then, Jim, that takes us away 24 rrom what our re sponsibility is. Our responsibility is to 25 do whatever we can to ensure that to the best of our 1816 333

c960V07 9 gshMM i ability, t ha t there is an adequate level of pro te : tion. 2 MR. HANRAHAN: The statement here should be, in 3 thi s in troduction, should be lif ted right out of the 4 legi sle tive requirements. 5 COMMISSIONER GILINSKY: I just wanted us to be o clear on what tne level of protection was. 7 MR. BICKWIT: I think it becomes clear later. 6 MR. BdCKERLEY: What about just saying, determine v that the level or protection is adequate? 10 COMMISSIONER GILINSKY: It's a level of 11 protection -- well, le t's go on. 12 MR. HANRAHAN: This page was edited by 13 Commissioner Bradf ord with some -- 14 CHAIRMAN AHEARNE: You're just trying to ge t 15 another vote on that pa ge. 16 (Laughter.) 17 MR. HANRAHAN: The following page has been le celetec. I9 COMMISS10 DER HENDRIEt Hear, hear. 20 MR. HANRAHAN: That was all a laundry list of 21 things and tnat goes to the top. 22 (At 18 45, Commi ssioner Bradf oro enters the room. ) 23 MR. B IC K'/; I T: You might be be tter able to list 24 what levels of protection are adequate. Then you don't 2D commit yourself right then and there to developing a level 1816 334

V60908 10 oshMM i of protection. You don' t commit yourself, later on you 2 say that you're going to on a best ef f orts basis. 3 MR. HANRAHAN: The first area in policy guidance 4 deals with ri sk a sse ssmen t. But I pu t in braces here level b of protec tion would be an alternative title to this sec tion o which you might pref er to purely just risk assessment. 7 CHAIRMAN AHEARNE: I was puzzled by A in the sense o that that sounded like the type of thing that we had ended v up deleting last time. More of a backdrop or background. 10 It says we have implici tly -- it's not a guidance. .11 MR. HANRAHAN: It's a background statement. 12 CHAIRMAN AHEARNE: So it didn't seem to fit into 13 policy guidance. 14 MR. BECKERLEY: Except it clarifies the subsequent 15 statements. Io CHAIRMAN AHEARNE: It's a diff erent character. 17 MR. HANRAHAN: As I recall f rom the discussion lo last time, there was a f air amount of talk about this very IV notion, that we should recognize tha t we -- 20 CHAIRMAN AHEARNE: My point i s to k ee p the 21 document clear, we're not saying statements shouldn't be 22 made, but it doesn't fit under policy guidance. It's a 23 back9rouno statemen t. 24 MR HANRAHAN That's right. 25 CHAIRMAN AHEARNE: Rather than a policy guidance 1816 335

6960909 11 gshMM i s ta temen t. 2 MR. BECKERLEY: Would you buy it as a policy 3 statement if we said through its licensee action, the NRC 4 will implicitly determine? 5 MR. HANRAHAN: Tha t's not the point.

John, o

you're right. It is a background statement. 7 CHAIRMAN AHEARNE: Yes, and I have no problem with 6 moving it into the introduction where the background is or 9 dro pping it. It just doe sn' t fit. 10 COMMI SSIONER HENDRIE: Or it could be f urther 11 explanation in B or C. C better than B. 12 MR. BdCKERLEY: Yes, you could say in view of the 13 fact tha t -- we only give implicit statements and so forth. 14 CHAIRMAN AHEARNE: Yes, it could. But as a lo se parate iden tif ied item of guidance, it just didn't track. 10 COMMISSIONER HENDRIit It isn't something that you 17 can then check of f as having done. I t always -- le CHAIRIUN AHEARNE: That's right. 19 MR. HANRAHAN: Woulo you like that as the 20 introduction to be a pa r t of C? In other words, the first 21 two sentences of C? 22 CHAIRMAN AHEARNE: I think you could drop the last 23 sentence of A. Just say, previously has implicitly, and NRC 24 will make an explicit if C stays. 25 MR. HANRAHAN: Now in B, I think -- recognize 1816 336

" 60910 12 / qshMM 1 t ha t a t the second sentence, and I cid that to provoke some 2 discussion on it. 3 COMMISSIONER HENDRIE: Where? 4 Md. HANHAHAN: In b, which says the isks of 5 nuclear activity should be described in the context of the o risk of alternatives. 7 CHAIRMAN AHEARNE: I would have preferred to say, 6 of providing or not provicing, and then to go on, instead of 9 required services, pro posed service s. 10 MR. HANRAHAN: Let me.just describe to you wha t I 11 thought I had for services, which may be poorly described. 12 I t's w ha t the consumer is interested in. The consumer 13 wants to be -- or to be cool, to have food preserved, and to 14 have light, and that's the service that can be provided by ( 15 other than electrical energy by insulation, conservation, or 16 otner mechanisms. 17 And so I didn't want to give the impression that we are 16 only thinking of the alternative to nuclear power as a coal IV plant or an oil-fired pl an t. There are other means of 20 achieving what the consumer wants, which the public wants, 21 which is a service. 22 COMMISSIONER HENDRIE: Also, since you're talking 23 about not just power plants, you're also talking about 24 the desire to have their tumors diagnosed. 25 MR. BECKERLEY: Pacemakers is one way we looked 1816 33/

8 v60Y.11 13 ashMM i at alternatives. 2 MR. HANRAHAN: The term, " required services," are 3 not very cescriptive of the thought. 4 CHAIRMAN AHEARNE: I wa s af raid that wnat you were 5 saying there is that the power plant is required. o MR. HANRAHAN: No. I was trying to get the exact 7 o pposi te thought across. 6 We could make that required or desired consumer services, v which i s really the thought. 10 COMMISSIONER GILINSKY: Now are these risks just il to be cescribed in a variety of ways as the questions come 12 up in wha tever regulatory context we're dealing with them? 13 MR. HANRAHAN: If we're talking about the. risks of 14 nuclear powe r, say the 10 percent of something -- 15 COMMISSIONER GILINSKY: No, no. What I mean is is lo this an instruction to develop some new document? 17 MR. HANRAHAN: No. le COMMISSIONER GILINSKY: Is this the new Rasmussen lv report? 20 MR. HANRAHAN: I tnink the problem here is one of 21 appearing on one extreme emotion by saying that nuclear is 22 be tter than coal or some other such thing. The other aspect 23 of tne dif f icul ty there is do we have the ability to really 24 co that? Do we have the kind of inf orma tion -- 25 CHAIRMAN AHEARNE: I thought it was establishing i816 33Ef

ov60912 14 ,gshMM 1 the policy, that we do have an obligation to clarify what 2 are the risks of the ac tivities we regulate. 3 COMMISSIONER GILINSKY: But isn't this an 4 instruction to write a report. 5 CHAIRMAN AHEARNE: This isn't a program. This 6 i sn' t a program cirection. This is saying this is our 7 policy. 6 COMMISSIONER GILINSKY : Is this immediately going V to get translated -- is this what we mean? 10 CHAIRMAN AHEARNE: What is the way to implement .11 t ha t? 12 COMMI SSIONER GILINSKY: One way is writing these 13 things. 14 CHAIRMAN AHEARNE: You're saying here is the 15 policy. Then the question is -- but that's when we will 16 then have the opportuni ty to direct the staff. 17 If you think that's appropriate policy, how do you want 16 to implement it? 19 COMMISSIONER GILINSKY I gue ss what I'm asking 20 is, should there be something in f ront of it like in the 21 course of its work, NRC will describe to the pu bl i c -- o r i s 22 this some sort of 23 CHAIRMAN AHEARNE: I aidn't interpret it as a 24 direction to go out and develop a vast new study or a 25 progran. I interpreted it as part of our operating policy 1816 339

~ 960913 15 ashMM i that we will aescribe what the risks are. 2 Just as number C is that we will make an explicit 3 determination of what the level of protection we believe is 4 acequate. 5 COMMISSIONER GILINSKY: I guess I would put in 6 some thing like in the course of i ts ac tivi tie s and work -- 7 CHAIRMAN AHEARNE: Fine. 6 COMMISSIONER GILINSKY: If tha t's wha t we mean. y CHAIRMAN AHEARNE: I aon't think there's any 10 difference. .11 COMMISSIONER HENDRIE: You have to learn the 12 Jargon, Vic. Wha t you do i s -- see, this is the policy 13 section. You have to go look at the planning section to see 14 what the plans are for this policy. 15 And then if you want to know whether there's going to be 16 a report, you have to l ook a t the program section to see if 17 the planning is being -- which implements the policy. 16 COMMISSIONER GILINSKY: All of which has already 19 been done. 20 COMMISSIONER BRADFORD: There certainly is a 21 commitment nere to develop some kind of a punitive statement 22 about the risks of alternative energy sources. That's not a 23 stuay that we have ever done. 24 MR. HAURAHAN: Or to use someone else's. 25 CHAIRMAN HENDRIE: Or when we de scribe the risks, 1816 340

8960914 10 gshMM i we describe them in that context. 2 What we are trying to do here is to develop the policy by 3 which the agency will then either run its programs or 4 develop programs. 5 You don't develop policy by looking at what programs you o have running and then say, well, let's develop a policy to 7 fit it. 6 I t's a bad way to develop policy. 9 COMMISSIONER HENDRIE: You get a good match that 10 way. 11 (Laugnter.) 12 (Simultaneous discussion.) 13 CHAIRMAN AHEARNE: It's a bad way to develop 14 policy to say what program do I want, and now I'll develop a 15 policy for it. You know, the right way to do it is to lo develop a policy that you think is right and then develop 17 the programs to implement i t. 16 COMMISSIONER BRADFORD: I understand that. IV CHAIRMAN HENDRIE: And yes, Joe, that is the 20 jargon. It's right. 21 COMMISSIONER GILINSKY: It's highly principled. 22 COMMISSIONER BRADFORD: But I think that there is 23 a clear commitment in this policy to develop something that 24 we con't now have, wnic h i s a s ta temen t about the overall 25 risks of alternative energy sources. 1816 341

960v15 17 oshMM 1 COMMISSIONER GILINSKY: Ac tually, why should the 2 risks of nuclear activity necessarily always be described in 3 the contents -- 4 CHAIRMAN AHEARNE: That's the policy question. 5 COMMISSIONER GILINSKY: It's just not clear to me o at all. There are time s when tha t's the right way to look 7 at it. There are other times when the right way is just to 8 say, look, here's how irradia ted you can get. 9 We're not in a position to make the choice between one h 10 kind of -- one means of generating electricity and another. / y 11 CHAIRMAN AHEARNE: I thought part of the 12 environmental review of NEPA was directly that. 13 COMMISSIONER GILINSKY: Yes. 14 CHAIRMAN AHEARNE: How are you proposing in this 15 review statutory responsibilities? 10 MR. HANRAHAN: What concerned me here is to tell 17 somebooy you're a risk or something like we're going to le reduce ceaths by 10 percent. 19 'N e ll, if that's 10 pecent of a million, that's an 20 im por tant number. If it's 10 percent of .1 deaths per year, 21 it has a lot of oif ferent meanings. 22 COV.MISSIONER GILINSKY: Obviously, you've got to 23 use conmon sense. 24 MR. HANRAHAN: Okay. 25 1816 342

8961Q01 18 ov MM I COMMISSIONER GILINSKY: We seem to be telling the 2 staff that whenever you put out something make sure you had 3 " Coa l is worse." 4 CHAIRMAN AHEARNE: Wait a minute. Are you making 5 a technical judgment that coal is worse so that t he re f ore 6 whenever the staff says anything they ought to say Coal i s 7 worse"? 6 COMMI SSIONER GILINSKY: Let's suppose that it is. y MR. HANRAHAN: I wrote this in the context, but 10 not as a comparison or judgment of which risks are .11 acceptable and unacceptable. 12 COMMISSIONER GILINSKY: Certain risk statements -- 13 this is tne right way to do it, there's no question about 14 it. But to make it out as a grand instruction, we seem to 15 be saying this is the only way to do it. And I am not sure lo t ha t's right. 17 CHAIRMAN AHEARNE: Would you prefer that sentence le be struck? 19 COMMISSIONER BRADFORD: I would strike the 20 sentence and pick up the thought in context of either the 21 NEPA policy guidance or conceivably even a specific program 22 which is designed to develop a clearer statement of 23 comparative risks. 24 CHAIRMAN AHEARNE: Joe? 25 COMMISSIONER HENDRIE I like the sentence, but I 1816 343

'961002 19 ov MM i wouldn't mind making it clear that it's not the only way you 2 c an l ook a t the thing. The risks of nuclear ac tivity should 3 be described among otner ways in the context of -- would do 4 that. 5 COMMISSIONER GILINSKY: What sort of situation are 6 you providing guidance for? What is it that we're asking 7 them to do tha t they're not doing? e CHAIRMAN AHEARNE: In general, when you lay out v this kind of a policy, you aren't focused on any specific 10 case that is coming up. What you are saying -- the way it's .11 worded now -- wna t you're saying is that when they, when tne 12 staff, when an occasion comes when tne staff is attempting 13 to describe the risk of whether it's a fuel facility or 14 radioisotope used for medical treatment or a power plant, 15 t ha t they should pu t, along with describing that ri sk, they 16 ought to also, to the extent they can, describe the risks of 17 comparable means of meeting that same -- providing that same 16 service. That's what tha policy says. 19 COMMISSIONER GILINSKY: What would you have them 20 do in the context of the action plan, for example? How 21 would this come up? I don't unaerstand it -- other than to 22 say in environmental statemen ts, where it's done already -- 23 MR. BECKERLEY: In fact, i t's prescribed by the 24 statute. 25 COMMISSIONER GILIN5KY : Right. I816 3/f4

~N61003 20 ov MM i COMMISSIONER HENDRIE: You get asked all the time 2 about "Is it true tne se things are ri sky," or, depending on 3 who you talk to, "What ao you mean these things are risky?" 4 And periodically, one or another of us -- the agency staff 5 and so on -- gives testimony, wri te pa pers -- o COMMISSIONER GILINSKY: But this is not guidance 7 to you, this is guidance to -- 6 CHAIRMAN AHEARNEt In reality, if the commission 9 ends up and it's cycled around, it would represent what is 10 the cor.mi ssion policy. .11 COMMISSIONER HENDRIE: It represents the view of 12 the commi ssion tha t the agency as a general pro position 13 ought to describe the risks of nuclear activities and the 14 uncertainties in the judgments of risks. And i t goes on to 15 say those risks should be described, I would say, among lo other ways, in the context of alternate means and so on. It 17 just simply says it's the policy of agency to talk frankly le about these matters and try to put them out to lay these IV risk elements down and the uncertainties down in a 20 rea sonable, matter-of-f act way, and, where a ppropria te, at 21 least to pu t them in the context of alternative ways of 22 ge tting the same product or service. 23 And, you know, i t's a perf ectly -- another policy 24 whicn you could have is that NRC will limit its discussion 25 of -- in public pa pers ano statements of the risks of 1816 345

d901004 21 ov MM 1 nuclear activities. Well, you wouldn't want to do that. 2 COMMISSIONER GILINSKY: Well, we don't do that 3 now. 4 COMMISSIONER HENDRIE: So, what's the objec tion to 5 t he -- o COMMISSIONER BRADFORD: The problem is, if I 7 understood Vic correctly, was confining it to that one 6 context. I suppose one could say the risks of nuclear v activity should be described in terms of deaths, illne sse s, 10 moneys, and the alterna tive s. And then you can cover the 11 w hole waterf ront. 12 CHAIRMAN AHEARNE: Now, I think that way we're 13 saying deaths, illnesses, moneys f or nuclear activities and 14 for alternative means of providing electrical energy and 15 deliver consumer services. What the thrust of that policy 16 is when you talk about the risks of these items that you put 17 it in the context of the risks f rom the other ways of le meeting the same ob jec tive s. And that's what the policy IV i s. 20 Now, whether or not we want to say it is a pol icy, 21 I tnink, is the i ssue. Now, Joe would prefer to keep iti 22 Peter would pref er to strike it. 23 Vic? 24 COMMISSIONER GILINSKY: I guess I look upon the se 25 statements as being -- one doesn't just casually put in 1816 346

8V61005 22 ov MM i things that you cisagree with. 2 CHAIRMAN AHEARNE: Absolutely not. No, no. These 3 are supposea to be what we -- 4 COMMISSIONER GILINSKY: They're answers to 5 important questions. I just don't understand why we need o this statement here. I certainly agree that in many 7 circumstances this is tne right way to make -- or to o describe risks. One ought to describe them in contex t. But I am trying to understand what would some member of the y 10 s ta f f take away from reading this statement, what is he 11 supposeo to do that he is not doing now. And we do describe 12 t hese things in comparative terms in many places. 13 CHAIRMAN AHEARNE: I would say generally not. 14 COMMISSIONER GILINSKY: Usually because i t's 15 aifficult to make any comparison or even to assign a level 16 of nuclear risk. So, if we could really pin these things 17 down, we'd compare them. 10 MR. HANRAHAN: I don' t think it's nece ssary to lv make comparisons aside f rom the NEPA requirement, but it's 20 the contextual basis that's useful, where are you standing 21 w hen I say this is the risk of this activity, how do I 22 understand that in comparison. 23 COMMISSIONER GILINSKY: I think there is more 24 point to having that comparison taken account of when you're 25 se tting overall levels of protection, and one way to do that 1816 347

8961006 23 ov MM i is simply to say that you wan ted to be, say, no worse than 2 where the present means of generating electricity puts you, 3 and the commission will take account of the alternatives in 4 setting levels of protection that it thinks are adequate. 5 The se 3re tnings to take into account, but this is o an instruction to the staf f, you know, "Whenever you appear 7 on the TV or the radio, make suce you tell them about coal." 8 You know, I think tha t's the way i t's going to get 9 in t er pre t ed, and I don't think that t ha t's wha t we in tend. 10 I think it's intended to just, you know, use common sense 11 and don't take a narrow view of things. 12 CHAIRMAN AHEARNE: Yes, but I think in many cases 13 in the past there may have been a narrow view taken. 14 COMMISSIONER GILINSKY: Well, we are coming out of 15 that. lo CHAIRMAN AHEARNE: All right, and that's one of 17 the reasons for trying to say something like that, ic MR. BECKERLEf Is it the word "shoul d" t ha t 19 bothers you the most there? 20 CHAIRMAN AHEARN E: I think it's the absolute 21 statement that bothers Vic. I t's not the word "should." 22 MR. BECKERLEY : Like, you know, the old busine ss 23 of "maybe" is correct. 24 CHAIRMAN AHEARNE: If you waffle it too muc h, Jim, 20 you know, if yo's water it down too much, then there is no 1816 34B'

6961007 24 ov MM i sense in even saying it. 2 MR. BECKERLEY: That's true. 3 COMMISSIONER GILINSKY : See, you'r really talking 4 about, yc'I know, how risks are described, so you're really 5 talking abous public rela tion s. You aren't talking about o decisions here. 7 CHAIRMAN AHEARNE: Yes, it says -- e COMMISSIONER GILINSKY: So you're giving public v relations guidance. Now, if you want to say -- 10 MR. HAFRAHAN: I think you're pu tting it in the .11 pejorative. 12-CHAIRMAN AHEARNE: Public information. 13 COMMISSIONER GILINSKY: I don't think so. 14 Joe? 15 (Laugnter.) 16 MR. HANRAHAN: I don' t mean public relations 17 pejorative. le MR. FOU CHARD: It's not an absolute, either. 19 CHAIRMAN AHEARNE: It's public information. 20 MR. HANRAHAN Public inf orma tion. 21 COMMISSIONER GILINSKY: Okay, public information 22 g uid e. 23 MR. HANRAHAN: 1his isn't to avoid -- you know, 24 "We're going to let t he se people buila a f acility in your 25 ne i g hbo r hood. Trust us. Everything's okay." 1816 349

Sv61008 25 ov MM i COMMISSIONER GILINSKY: I have no objection. I 2 think it's reasonacle for the commission to say setting 3 overall levels of protection it will take into account the 4 risks of alternative means of generating electricity. Tha t 5 ties it to decisions. o COMMISSIONER HENDRIE: All right, that's good. 7 I'll buy off on tnat if it will help break the deadlock. o Let's move that kind of a sentence down into C and take it v out of B. Would that do it? 10 CHAIRMAN AHEARNE: In other words, what Joe was 11 saying, if you didn't like telling the public about it -- 12 COMMISSIONER GILINSKY: Yes, among the things to 13 be taken into account are the risks of alternative means of 14 generating electrici ty. 15 CHAIRMAN AHEARNE: All right. 10 COMMISSIONER GILINSKY: Does that bother you, 17 eeter? 10 COMMISSIONER BRADFORD: To the extent t ha t the 19 language portends to track anything in NEPA, it ought to 20 stop with the word " alternatives." There's nothlng in NEPA 21 about providing electrici ty. It's all alternatives to the 22 project. 23 COMMISSIONER GILINSKY: Al te rna ti ve s. 24 MR. SECKERLEY: Accomplishing the same pu rpo se. 25 CHAIRMAN AHEARNE: Particularly -- Ed had 1816 350

'ov61009 26 ov MM i describec before you came in, Peter, what he was trying to 2 get in by " required services for such things as conservation 3 or other means of achieving it." That's not the best way. 4 Now, Vi c, how about the rest of the paragra ph B? 5 The issue there, put aside the way it might be worded, the c issue there is in trying to reach some conclusion as to what 7 is an ecceptable level of risks from nuclear activities, o does one commit or say that our policy wil. be to go through v t ha t type of proc e ss? 10 COMMISSIONER GILINSKY: You know, inevitably we .11 w ould pu t th:ngs like that -- you know, we reach some view 12 on this; we'd solicit publi c commen t. I assume public input 13 is public comment. 14 I guess I agree with it. I am nct clear on what 15 the point of putting these sentences in he: e is. We have lo certainly solicited public comment on all major policy 17 s ta temen t s. le MR. HANHAHAri All of this is not new, in t he 19 sense that we are not creating all new commission policy. A 20 gooa deal of it is in enunciation of existing policy. 21 unAIRMAN AHEARNE: Trying to put i t down. 22 MR. HANRAHAW: In this particular area, you are 23 committea to aoing tnat. 24 COMMISSIONER BRADFORD: I think I would s to p a t 25 that secono sentance wi tn the word now where it says "NRC." 1816 351

8Y01010 27 ov MM i MR. BECKERLEY: The means, you mean? In other 2 words, specifying the means of getting public -- 3 CHAIRMAN AHEARNE: Pe ter, do you mean that you 4 don't like the idea of 5 COMMISSIONER BRADFORD: Public views will be o solicited in developing regulations. Somehow seems 7 f unaamental and you didn't have to say it. o CH AIRMAN AHEARNE: Okay. v COMMISSIONER BRAUFORD: The interactions with -- 10 and I gue ss I f eel the same way about the interaction s with 11 Congress. I mean, the la st couple of lines really says the 12 same thing. 13 CHAIRMAN AHEARNE: Well, except if you make the 14 statement "We will seek public judgment," the next question 15 is how will we seek tha t public judgment ? And what this lo says is our mechanism -- it describe s the mechani sm f or 17 ge tting tha t public judgmen t. le MR. SECKERLEY: Exc e pt isn't that ge tting away IV from the idea of it being a policy statement? 20 CHAIRMAN AHEARNE: I t's the policy by which we are 21 commi tting to ge t public judgment, but public judgment is a 22 sufficiently broad sta t emen t. 23 CHAIRMAN AHEARNE: We don't know what t he " i t" is. 24 yet, and I wouldn't get any more specific. 25 COMMISSIONER BRADFORD: We can, in fact, have a 1816 352

8961011 28 ov MM i program for seeking public judgment. I would use another 2 worc than " judgment." 3 CHAIRMAd AHEARNE: Two points: Many people, if 4 you tell them you're going to seek puolic judgment will 5 either, A, not include Congre ss -- they won' t in ter pre t that o as a mechanism as a f orm -- or, B -- 7 COMMISSIONER BRADFORD: "Public and congressional 6 judgment" is fine. v CHAIRMAN AHEARNE: So, you also? 10 (Laughter.) 11 COMMISSIONER GILINSKY: We have an obligation to 12 kee p them currently and f ully inf ormed. Are we not going to 13 seek their judgment? 14 CHAIRMAN AHEARNE: We are going to have to. I am 15 trying to say that if, when you put this down, I would 16 prefer to make that explicit that they are involved in that 17 process as a mechanism for seeking public judgment. One of 16 the major ways that we get public judgment is through the 19 mechanism of Congre ss. At least in our government, our 20 mechanism for expressing the wishes of the publ ic. 21 Joe, do you have any comment on this? 22 COMMISSIONER GILINSKY: We could have an 23 expression of our agreement with our form of government. 24 COMMISSIONER BRAUFORD: Let's see. John, I think 25 we can pick up your concern that if we started the sentence ~ 1816 353

961012 29 ov MM l with the word through." 2 CHAIRMAN AHEARNE: Yes, that sounds good. 3 COMMISSIONER BRADFORJ Why don't we try that? 4 CHAIRMAN AHEARNE: Okay, that's fine. 5 MR. HANRAHAN: "Through public input"? o CHAIRMAN AHEARNE: Fine. 7 MR. HANRAHAN: "Through inte raction s wi th" -- o h, 6 to drop the "public." I am sorry. I just caught u p. v CHAIRMAN AHEARNE: All right. Thank you, Peter. 10 MR. HANRAHAN: Now, at the end of the sentence .11 there are -- the initial version hac various levels of 12 nuclear risk, risk of nuclear activities. And which of the 13 phrases do you choose? 14 CHAIRMAN AHEARNE: Anybody have a preference? I 15 would go with " risks of nuclear activities." " Nuclear risk" 16 has in mind nuclear wea pons. I7 Paragra ph C. le MR. HANRAHAN: Paragraph C says -- IV COMMISSIONER GILINSKY: I assume you mean 20 " licensed nuclear activitie s"? 21 CHAIRMAN AHEARNE: Fine. 22 COMMISSIONER GILINSKY: I don't know. We could 23 see juogment of acceptability of unlicensed, too. 24 MR. HANRAHAN " Licensed." 25 The next paragraph is the commitment or an attempt \\816 554

6961013 30 ov MM i to make an explicit cetermination of the level of protection 2 that we believe i s aaequate. Now, they chose the word 3 " attempt" 4 COMMISSIONER GILINSKY: I think it's an 5 i mpro vement, but it sounds like a kind of -- we're going to 6 make a pass at it. We co uld drop "at tempt." 7 MR. HANRAHAN: We can insert "not." 6 MR. BECKERLEY: Do you want " exert its best y effort"? 10 MR. HANRAHAN: The thought was i t's not an 11 expectation of comple te succe ss. 12 COMMISSIONER GILINSKY: Or immediately, at any 13 rate. 14 MR. FOU CHARU Don't you mean that a design ID i sn' t t ha t the thought that you're trying to express here? Io COMMISSIONER HENDRIE: That was the way I had it 17 phrased in a previous markup. le COMMISSIONER GILINSKY : Yes. Iv MR. FOUCHARU: Hopef ully, you make a determination 20 pretty regularly, but how well you define it, it seems to 21 me, is maybe an open question. 22 COMMISSIONER GILINSKY: I would says trill seek to 23 be tter aefine or will better define. I s t ha t w ha t you 24 meant? 25 COMMISSIONER HENDRIE: If i t's be tter defined, you 1816.355

v61014 31 pv MM i can make it aosolute. We can do it better. That may not be 2 much oetter. 3 COMMISSIONER GILINSKY: "rlill be tter def ine. " 4 CHAI RMAN AHEARNE: Okay. Level of protection. 5 MR. HANRAHAN: Level of pro tection. o CHAIRMAN AHEARNE: See, that's public information, 7 not public releases. e (Laughter.) v MR. FOU CHARD: It may be a Kamikaze. 10 COMMISSIONER BRADFORD: Let's see now, the second .11 sentence there again commits to a program. 12 MR. HANRAHAN: Yes. 13 COMMISSIONER BRADFORD: Is there any such program? 14 I know one answer ist once we approve this there will have 15 to be. But at the same t i m e -- lo MR. HANRAHAN: There is the risk a sse ssment 17 program. le COMMISSI0 DER HENDRIE: The whole risk a ssessment lv program -- 20 COMMISSIONER BRADFORD: But the word "a ccelerate" 21 somehow means we're going to do something more. 22 CHAIRMAN AHEARNE: I ha ve proposed striking that 23 and trying to stick it into planning. 24 MR. HANRAHAN There is a f air discussion plan on 25 t he subject. 1816 356

volOlh 32 DV MM g COMldISSIONER GILIIlsgy: 3 am having trouy36 W1th 1 2 U me n program or P anning? 3 COMail SSIONER HEN )f,;Ig, 740W you're getting ft, 4 (Laugnter.) D o 7 b 9 to g s il 12 13 14 lo lo 17 lo IV 20 21 22 23 24 25 1816 357

33 CR 8896 MELTZER '-11 mte 11 CHAIRMAN AHEARNE: Make him choose one, Vic. Put 2 in planning. If they were going to say program, there'd have 3 to be a program to do that. 4 COMMISSIONER GILINSKY: Let me ask again, is 5 policy, planning and programming just another way of describing 6 statements with successively more detail in them? 7 CHAIRMAN AHEARNE: Successively more detail, and 8 there is a difference of time and how long you would expect 9 the policy to be established. And hopefully, once you've got I 10 it fairly clear, there would not be much in the way of major 11 changes over a period of several years. 12 On planning, those are sets of basic assumptions 13 that flow from the policy that now lay out how you go about 14 developing the programs, and they trackJfairly consistently 15 to the policy -- the programs are the things that implement. 16 COMMISSIONER GILINSKY: I thought planning included P things that are beyond their control. In other words, you 16 expect -- l 19 CHAIRMAN AHEARNE: That's part of the assumptions. I 20 COMMISSIONER HENDRIE: You build on assumptionF. 21 So many applications are going to come in, not going to come I 22 in. 23 CHAIRMAN AHEARNE: Yes. 24 COMMISSIONER GILINSKY: We couldn' t just do it-ce-Federal Reporters, Inc. 25 policy and programming? i 1816 3'58 I

mte 2 1 (Laughter.) 2 MR. HANRAHAN: That sounds like salami tactics. 3 COMMISSIONER BRADFORD: I think it's the reverse, 4 isn't it? 5 (Laughter.) 2 3 6 MR. BECKERLEY: You mean P G instead of P G7 7 CHAIRMAN AHEARNE: You could certainly have a 8 planning section under the policy. 9 MR. HANRAHAN: At any rate, under the planning 10 section there is a paragraph that deals with risk assessment Il activities. 12 ' CHAIRMAN AHEARNE: That's why I figured -- You're 13 going to bring down that first sentence. You're going to delete' t, 14 A, but bring that first sentence down and provide that back-15 ground. l 16 li COMMISSIONER BRADFORD: Wait a minute. You deleted '7 A altogether? l 10 MR. BECKERLEY: We moved the first sentence down l l l9 to the front of C. l j l i 20 COMMISSIONER BRADFORD: So now our first policy is j 21 I to describe the public risk of nuclear activities. 22 (Laughter.) l 23 MR. HANRAHAN: Would you rather see it moved up to l 24 A? a.FWeral Reporters, inc. i l 23 COMMISSIONER GILINSKY: There must be a better way i 1816 359 l

35 mte 3, 1 to make policy. 2 (Laughter.) 3 CHAIRMAN AHEARNE: Yes, it's called a single 4 administrator. 5 MR. BICKWIT: It's looking better and better. 6 (Laughter.) 7 COMMISSIONER HENDRIE: Stop feeding him straight 8 lines, will you, Vic? 9 MR. HANRAHAN: I think that this Section A-1 should 10 be titled " Level of Protection" -- (Inaudible). 11 CHAIRMAN AHEARNE: Yes, and I think I agree with 12 Peter that C ought to really become A. 13 MR. HANRAHAN: Yes. 14 COMMISSIONER BRADFORD: I'm going to sort of 15 reserve at least a quibble until I see how that second i 16 lj sentence from B actually comes out and see. 9 i '. 7 0 COMMISSIONER GILINSKY: When did -- when were you 15 headed for sort of a final -- i l 19 CHAIRMAN AHEARNE: What I was headed for in this, l I 20 the final Commission sign-off would be end of January. What i 21 I was hoping for was to get sufficient agraement to send this l 22 back to the staff as, I guess, tentative Commission guidance. 23 See, what we are working with is a proposal that has come up 24 from the staff, a-FMeret Reporurs, Inc. 25 COMMISSIONER GILINSKY: When I said there must be i 1816 360 i

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36 mte 4 I a better way, I guess, to be serious, I think we ought to be 2 dealing with something written by Commissioners. 3 CHAIRMAN AHEARNE: Vic, we tried that. We tried 4 that in February, in April, in June, in August, and we didn't 5 get anything. So the staff finally, in order to get the 6 process cycling, came up with something. 7 COMMISSIONER GILINSKY: m ertheless, I think that's -- 8 CHAIRMAN AHEARNE: And the purpose of these meetings 9 waft to see, did Commissioners have specific descriptions that 10 they would prefer to put in. But the difficulty is that the 11 whole staff cycle, which is running all of the branches and i 12, preparing the budget and spending money and spending resources, li 13 h continues on. So it was an attempt to capture and to take 14 h control of it to us, i 15 COMMISSIONER GILINSKY: I understand, but the 16 L immediate budgets are not going to be much affected by these i '~ statements. j 18 CHAIRMAN AHEARNE: Preparation of next year's? l g D l I 19 COMMISSIONER CILINSKY: Yes. k l But that's going -- you know,l 20 !i COMMISSIONER HENDRIE: i N 21 [ it has to start pretty quick. 22 COMMISSIONER BRADFORD: I e end of January -- f I i i am I right in remembering that that accelerates Norm's 23 24 schedule by a couple of weeks? i co Federal Reporters, Inc. 25 CHAIRMAN AHEARNE: It ma have accelerated it. 1817 001 ^ i

mte 5 1 What it attempted to do was to make sure that we got our 2 Policy planning guidance out to the staff, so when they began 3 Putting together their programs, it was based upon what we 4 decide the policy and planning ought to be, because they 5 would begin developing their programs. 6 COMMISSIONER BRADFORD: I had thought that was 7 Norm's schedule as well, but I can't remember just what Norm's 8 schedule any more, than to -- (Inaudible) -- sort of a March l 9 beginning of it. l l 10 CHAIRMAN AHEARNE: The end time of our approval of th'e 11 program summarier I think stayed the same. What I tried to do l 12 i by the schedule was to -- 13 COMMISSIONER BRADFORD: You're taking just about lthepolicy. Idn sorry. 14 15 CHAIRMAN AHEARNE: What I tried to do was to get 16 j us in a situation where we would be better able to say, we l I c

71 put the policy out, now you guys are supposed to be tracking j

I! 18 it. i l 19 n COMMISSIONER BRADFORD: Cancel my statement. I'm i b I 20 " sorry. l 21 COMMISSIONER HENDRIE: Let's dash ahead to two l 22 temporarily, because I have got a comment I want to make and 23 I'm going to have to pull out in a few minutes. I want to 24 get my comment in. Can we do that? Ace Fedua: Hemnen, Inc. 25 CHAIRMAN AHEARNE: Yes. Could I then tempolarily 1817 002 l

38 mte 6 1 Put this meeting in abeyance for a minute? We have a request 2 for an affirmation. But Dick has asked, has said he wants to 3 be here for it, but he won't be back until after 3:30. 4 MR. CHILK: Between 3:00 and 3:30. 5 COMMISSIONER BRADFORD: (Inaudible.) 6 CHAIRMAN AHEARNE: So my question is, are you PeOP e going to be around later in the afternoon? l 7 8 COMMISSIONER HENDRIE: (Shakes head in the negative.) 9 CHAIRMAN AHEARNE: You're not. Would you mind if i 10 we went ahead on the affirmation without you? 11 COMMISSIONER HENDRIE: Give me a hint and let me l 12 ! see if I can figure out how I am voting. Am I with the i 13 h majority? ll 14 i CHAIRMAN AHEARNE: Yes, you're with us. It's 15 Gainsville. 16 j COMMISSIONER HENDRIE: Is it unanimous? CHAIRMAN AHEARNE: No. b 18 MR. CHILK: It's four to one. Commissioner Bradford i 19 c is dissenting. l 20 i CHAIRMAN AHEARNE: I don't want to go into discus-j 21 sion of it. All I want to know is whether you will be able i I 22 to -- 23 COMMISSIONER HENDRIE: I am amiable with your I I 24 later affirmation. -Federal Reporters, Inc. 25 CHAIRMAN AHEARNE: Fine. Will you guys be around? 1817 003

39 mte 7 1 We need a majority? 2 COMMISSIONER BRADFORD: Yes. 3 COMMISSIONER GILINSKY: No. 4 CHAIRMAN AHEARNE: You will not be and you will be 5 here. So would you mind us going ahead? 6 COMMISSIONER GILINSKY: No, I would prefer it. 7 (Laughter.) 8 CHAIRMAN AHEARNE: Okay. So I think what it will 9 end up, that Peter, Dick and I will quorum, we will have a 10 quorum and we'll have a majority going in the direction -- all 11 right. Let's get back to this. 12 COMMISSIONER HENDRIE: Page 4. 13 MR. HANRAHAN: Section 2, paragraph A is essentially i h 14 the same. Paragraph B is the one where we attempt to capture 15 the thought about cost, a valid or nonvalid consideration. 16 l, Starts off by saying, it's implicit in some things already, s '7 it is not a basis for balancing, whether you achieve it or not. N 18 l There are other times when it isn't. It is legitimate to l 19 consider costs. 20 The last statement says -- the last sentence: We i 21 will a ttempt to be as explicit about that consideration as 22 possible. 23 MR. BICKWIT: I don't think that's an adequate 24 statement of the law. Federal Reporters, Inc. 25 CHAIRMAN HENDRIE: It didn' t come out, the way I 1817 004 1

me 8 1 read it, the way I have felt the economic considerations enter, 2 and it doesn't seem to me to be consistent either with the 3 interpretations from ELD and OGC over time. A point that I 4 have made, and I think is consistent with those interpretations, 5 is that economic and various other aspects may reasonably be 6 taken into account in establishing the regulations that in 7 effect combine the level of protection. Whether we do it 8 explicitly or not, why, I think we all recognize that those 9 practicality questions are there as part of the consideration 10 in adopting regulations, rules. They are also there when the 11 staff adopts positions of a generic nature. 12 Then when you go on and say, good, having established I that level of protection, now I want to look and see whether 13 d li 14 i, plant A meets it, and now if the only argument plant A has 15 got for not meeting it is that it would be expensive for them, 16 k they hate to spend the money, they can't go very far on that. 17 (At 2:30 p.m., Commissioner Kennedy arrived.) 18 'i CHAIRMAN AHEARNE: Can I hold your answer for a j l' l 19, minute and let us shift for a moment to another subject? I l t 20 Commissioner Kennedy is here. 21, (The meeting was recessed for a brief affirmation,_ i 22 CHAIRMAN AHEARNE: If you can recall Conmissioner 23 Hendrie's question and give him an answer. 24 COMMISSIONER HENDRIE: I think counsel understands ce-Federal Reporters, Inc. 25 where I am. 1817 005 i

41 mte 9 1 MR. HANRAHAN: It was my inadequate and inept attempt 2 to try to capture that thought in the very first sentence. 3 COMMISSIONER HENDRIE: Rather than hassle witn it, 4 I don't know, do people have objection to that framework of an 5 answer? 6 COMMISSIONER BRADFORD: I'm sorry. Joe, thich 7 section? 8 COMMISSIONER HENDRIE: This is this economic thing. 9 It's 2-B. Okay? The revised 2-B doesn't quite get where it 10 seems to me the counsel's advice was on what is permissible 11 under the Atomic Energy Act. And my suggestion was that, 12 f rather than us writing all the wording here, that we ask Len 13 to please consult with Ed and see if he can get some descrip-d 144 tion, you know, in appropriate policy-type language, that does '5 it. And we'll have a crack at it before it goes final, in any 16 h event, u '. 7 COMMISSIONER BRADFORD: Whatever it is, it can't 18c begin with the words "even though." il 19 MR. BICKWIT: Just one point. Your view that costs 20 p ought not to ve taken into account when determining if an 21 individual violation is violative of adequate protection, it's t 22 not one that's compelled by law. It's a perfectly reasonable i 23 policy judgment, but it's not compelled by law. 24 CHAIRMAN AHEARNE: It's not the law. co Federal Reporte s, Inc. 25 COMMISSIONER HENDRIE: I guess I stand somewhere 1817 006 i

42 mte 10. 1 between just saying don't give it a thought and don't give it 2 much thought. And I'm amiable to Miatever shading. I'll tell 3 you, in terms of Commission policy guidance, it's not a bad 4 idea on a matter like this to take what latitude the statute 5 allows you. You might need it some time. e-ll 6 CHAIRMAN AHEARNE: Exactly. That I agree with. 7 8 9 10 11 12 3 l 13 l 14 r 15 16 !l I7 18 19 l 20 1 21 i I 22 23 24 ce Federal Reporters, Inc. 25 1817 007

961201 43 cshMM i MR. BICKWIT: You might want to drop tha t f eature. 2 COMMISSIONER HENDRIE: Either that, or avoid 3 saying absolutely no consideration. But where a specific 4 f acility's performance is being viewed, rather le ss 5 consideration is appropria te, or some thing like that would o still give you -- 7 MR. BICKWIT: Yes. e CHAIRMAN AHEARNE: Joe, you said that you have to y leave. When do you have to leave? 10 COMMISSICNER HENDRIE: About 30 seconds. .11 CHAIRMAN AHEARNE: When do you have to leave? 12 COMMISSIONER GILINSKY: I was planning to leave 13 r ight now, bu t I was planning to come back. 14 CHAIRMAN AHEARNE: But Joe doesn't. 15 I would sense we're really not going to make this today, 16 unfortunately. 17 COMMISSIONER HENDRIE: I'll tell you, I don't have 18 any other cc: aments beynod that page and what I've already 19 said. 20 MR. BECKERLEY: Wha t about the statement of 21 priorities? Do you have any comment on the options, the two 22 options on that priority? 23 COMMISSIONER HENDRIE: Yes, that's what tha t page 24 is. I'm going to leave the thing with you, okay? Now since 25 this is a two-sided animal, you've,got to be careful which 1817 008

8961202' 44 gshMM 1 side. Why don't I give it to Jo hn. 2 MR. HANRAHAN: He can handle that. 3 (Laughter.) 4 MR. BECKERLEY: Each side is marked with the date 5 of the draft. 6 COMMISSIONER HENDRIE: And it isn't that profound 7 a problem. 6 CHAIRMAN AHEARNE: I would like to ask before you 9 go, Joe, and I'll ask the other two, what is your preference 10 on how we should proc eed? 11 COMMISSIONER HENDRIE: I think that we should get 12 the damn thing back to staf f and let it operate as some sort 13 of interim guidance. It's not that bad. 14 On the other hand, it's not at a place where I'd be 15 preparea to say, good, that's it, publish i t, you know, lo print it on parchment and let it be the final word for all 17 times. Io I think we've got to mull on it. But there is an 19 i terative process here in terms of building the P cubed G 20 proce ss into the budget cycle and guidance to the staff. 21 And if we hang up here f or perf ec tion in the policy and 22 planning guidance, then it will be next year, it will be a 23 year f rom now before it can enter. 24 And I think it would be usef ul to get it started. 25 CHAIRMAN AHEARNE: Let me ask another question. 1817 009

~961203 45 gshMM i If it turns out we can't get the policy guidance out for 2 wha tever reason, there is a bunch of program direction in 3 the back which are e ssentially, make sure these things get 4 in to -- e t c e tera. 5 COMMISSIONER HENDRIE: I didn't have much comment o abou t tha t anyway. I woulo get that -- I would get that 7 forward as a minimum. 6 CHAIRMAN AHEARNE: Okay. Vic, how would you 9 propose we proc eed? 10 COMMISSIONER GILIN5KY: I'm not comfortable with 11 this policy sta tement. I think what it needs is more 12 a ttention on this side. 13 But I think it can't be just our editing of what has been 14 done. 15 CHAIRMAN AHEARNE: Recognize, as I point out, I i6 don't cisagree with you, but we have not been able to get 17 there. 16 C0:4MISSIONER GILINSKY: Maybe the answer is that we 19 delegate to one of us te trite a draf t, or two of us to 20 write alternative draf ts, or something like that. 21 I think the starting point has got to be some thing 22 wri tten here. 23 CHAIRMAN HENDRIE: My perce ption is the reason 24 t ha t we have never gotten a policy statement out is that we 25 have difficulty reaching agreement ca policy. 1817 010

'961204' 46 ashMM l And so the staff then has to try to guess what it is. 2 And there are -- 3 COMMISSIONER H5NDRIE: May I in terru pt for one 4 second? Merry Chri stmas, all. 5 ( A chorus of " Merry Christmas") o ( At 2:35, Commissioner Hendrie leaves the room. ) 7 COMMISSIONER GILINSKY: I'm not being very o helpf ul. 9 CHAIRMAN AHEARNE: I think the staff has 10 c ertainly -- and company -- has certainly prepared. If we il propose an alternative version to try to help work it out 12 with the rest of us, anybody who proposes, if you have an 13 alternative version. 14 MR. HANRAHAN: I think I did view my job to do 15 that for you. The purpose of us being in this is to try and 10. get WPat we have -- 17 CHAIR.AAN AHEARNE: And really, the question is -- Ic I've been trying to push this, but I certainly would prefer 19 it to be the most accurate reflection of what the 20 commi ssioners' view should be the policy. 21 Then it's the most useful document, absolutely. 22 The more it is just the commissioners casually signing 23 off on what the s ta f f ha s pro po sed, it's a less useful 24 document. 25 COMMI SSIONER BRADFORD: My reservation at the 1817l011

ov61205' 47 gshMM i moment, though, to using it as interim guidance -- f.irst of 2 all, I'm not quite sure what it would be guiding in the next 3 month or two. 4 We can give a lot more guidance in the action plan in 5 many ways than anything else between now and February. And 6 secondly, I think maybe it would be be tter to be pointing 7 toward sharpening this a little more as early, say, as next 8 week, except, of course, we've got V CHAIRMAN AHEARNE: Vic won't be here next week and 10 he won't be nere the week following. 11 COMMISSIONER BRADFORD: I can leave you with 12 everything that I have. 13 CHAIRMAN AHEARNE: You can leave us with 14 everything so tha t even the week you're gone, you'd be 15 willing to let us go? 16 COMMISSIONER BRADFORD: Yes, at least for purposes 17 of w hat I was going to suggest be the next step, which 16 was -- and I've f orgo tten exac tly now how Norm had these. 19 Eut if in going back to the staff it goes less for interim 20 guidance purposes than for sort of a f eedback around, I 21 would not change it quite a lot f rom what the staff 22 originally commented on. 23 MR. HANRAHAN: The purpose of that next round is 24 tha t on the first two parts, the policy and planning, to 25 obtain their feedback. In a sense, what you said now is 1817 j)12

961206' 48 gshMM i here's what we'd like to give guidance (n. They ought to 2 come back and say, you're either not cleEr in some of those 3 areas and here's some areas we think we need guidance on 4 t ha t you're not telling us about. 5 On the last part, the programming part, I think that does o represent a bit of interim guidance and here is areas that 7 you ought to be working on. o CHAIRMAN AHEARNE: We've got to get started on. 9 COMMISSIONER BRADFORD: I don't have much 10 dif ficulty wi th that. What I would have on that one would il be have the staff start scrambling and f alling in line 12 behind this document -- 13 MR. HANRAHAN: I wou.d also like to take the 14

point, you said the action plan would be the focus of so 15 much.

I think the danger there is dealing very piecemeal, 16 having gone through this exercise, at least in you minds, 17 you have now thought about some broader issues which tie 16 together 245 pieces of action. 19 COMMISSIONER BRADFORD: Right. But the point is 20 that I'm talking only now about the use of this as an 21 interim guidance in the -- 22 CHAIRMAN AHEARNE: As Ed tried to point out, the 23 next step -- there are two pieces to this. There's the back 24 part, which there is some set of items that have to get 25 started in pu tting them in. The other pieces of these 1817 013

6961207' 49 gshMM i policies, the next step really was to get f eedback cycled. 2 COMMISSIONER BRAL?ORD: Tha t's exactly what I was 3 scying I was in agreement with, that nobody pro poses that we 4 immediately start living by them 5 CHAIRMAN AHEARNE: Let me iterate, a point also Ed o triea to make, the ac tion plan doe sn' t re ally -- you will 7 end up -- we'll end up with a policy out of the action plan, 6 but not because we established a policy, but by integration 9 overall, those pieces, they'll end up being a policy. 10 COMMISSIONER BRADFORD: Yes. 11 CHAIRMAN AHEARNE: And tha t's really a 12 s ta f f-c ri ven poli cy. Yet, where the objective here is f or 13 us to set pol i c y -- 14 COMMISSIONER GILINSKY: I'm not clear this sets 15 policy because it's not clear to me tha t it s pe ak s to the lo poin ts that need to be spoken to. 17 I think wnat you need to start with is a list of items, 16 policy i ssue s tha t ha ve to get dealt with. And tha t's a Iv list of questions. 20 In otner words, what cre the questions, you know, five or 21 six questions the commission has got ge answer? 22 CHAIRMAN AHEARNE: I believe that was the 23 underlying, at least, what they a ttempted to do when they 24 write this. 25 COMMISSIONER GILINSKY: I think that's right, but i817 01.4

ovol206' 50 gsnMM i it was a li ttle too underlying. I would have just started 2 out saying, look, these are the five or six or ten or 3 whatver, cuestions tha t need to get answered and 4 CHAIRMAN AHEARN E: When can you develop that 5 because I think, to some e x te n t, they have -- I know f rom my o point of view they have aadressed many of the questions I 7 think we ought to be answering. c Now it's obviously my own personal view, and probably v because I've been involved in putting this together a lot 10 more. 11 COMASSIONER GILINSKY: It strikes me that's the 12 f unction that OvE could have -- well, that would have been 13 extremely usef ul and then have the commissioners say, you 14 know, scribble oown their f ormulations of responses to these 15 questions. lo I still think that tha t's the right way to proceed. In 17 otner words, one of the really major issues before this lo commission on which the staff needs to have guidance. IV CH AIRMAN AHEARNE: And you can't extract it this 20 way? 21 CO*.tMISSIONER GILINSKY: I don't think tha t one 22 ought to have to extrac t it. I think it ought to be.just 23 right tnere, one, two, three, four, five. And this would 24 then be a means f or the commission to come to grips with 25 these i ssues, wni ch, in one way or ancther, haven't been 1817 015

696120F 51 oshMM i faced, or have bee-or whatever. 2 CHAIRMAi4 I have no personal difficulty 3 wita that a s tne f r6 I don't like tha; as the way 4 you set policy by saying, here's a question and therefore, o here's the po li cy. Here's another question and here's the o policy. 7 COMMISSIO,4ER GILINSKY : Tha t's wha t an i ssue is, o It's a question. You set policy by dealing with issues. y CHAIRMAN AHEARNE: Sure. But Vic, one of the 10 i ssues is -- can be as broad as what is the mission of the 11 agency, or what is the at ti tude of the agency. 12 COMMISSIONER GILINSKY: It isn't just an abstract 13 issue. It is on what poin t is the staff uncertain? 14 In other words, what question needs to be unanswered 15 because it arf ects which way things are going to go. 16 MR. HANRAHAN: We can argue what a definition of a 17 policy is. It's a sta tement of principle followed by a 16 course of action. 19 And now, c e r ta inly, it ought to direct at the issues tha t 20 are important, not just be statements of idle principle. 21 CHAIRMAN AHEARNE: And one of the things are that 22 everyone has, or most people have a latent set of what they 23 believe are the f undamental objectives or the basic 24 principles, 'nd you try to make that explicit. 25 CO:.ilSSIONER GILINSKY: We can go at this several 1817 016

69612,10' 52 . g s n./.M i ways. But one reason why I like that other approach is it 2 keeps vou tied to certain essentials. 3 I just opened a page here at random. It says NRC will 4 provide the uepartment of Energy and other developmental 5 agencies advice and consultation concerning licensing of a nuclear technology. 7 Now we have done this in the past and we're going to do 6 it in the f uture whether it a ppears here or not. 9 I just don't think we need it. It's not one of the great 10 issues, I don't think, tnat's f acing us. And it and a whole 11 bunen of other little items, some of which have disa ppeared 12 already, simply detract f rom whatever it is -- 13 CHAIRf4AN AHEARNE: That's in the planning 14 section. In the planning sec tion, you do get more detail'ed. 15 COMMISSIONER GILINSKY: It only proves that I lo can't tell the difference between them. 17 MR. HANRAHAN: Tnat's tne very end of the planning Ic section. Iv CHAIRi4AN AHEARNE: But in order f or you to be 20 happier witn wrestling wi th i t, you would want OPE to 21 cevelop a set of what they think are the basic questions. 22 Cat 4MISS IONER GILINSKY: What is it? What are the 23 questions tnat this commi ssion needs to answer -- you know, 24 t he l a c k of -- 25 CHAIR 4AN AHEARNE: If OPE generates a set of 1817 017

dv6121.t 53 ashMM l que stion s, then you will generate your set of answers? 2 COMMISS IONER GILINSKY: Yes, or an alternative 3 list of questions. 4 (Laughter.) 5 COMMISSIONER GILINSKY : Basically, that's the o rignt way to proc eed. 7 With all aue respec t to the OPE staff members who worked 6 long and hard on this, and I commend them f or it, but they 9 ought to be eaiting what we've done, rather than us editing 10 w ha t they've done. .11 CHAIRMAN AHEARNE: Which is what we have been 12 trying to get done for months. 13 COMMISSIONER GILINSKY: Well, you've convinced me. 14 (Laughter.) 15 CHAIRMAN AHEARNE: No, because you've now asked 16 them to generate a list of questions. Can you generate a 17 list of questions that you think are the critical questions 18 in your answers? 19 MR. BICKWIT: Didn't you and Ed used to do this? 20 COMMISSIONER GILINSKY: Ed and I used to do 21 thi s. We can do i t again, I suppose. If the commission is 22 willing to delegate thi s to u s -- 23 CHAIRMAN AHEARNE: I'm celegating it to you, Vic, 24 in order to get your view of what shoula be in here in any 25 way tha t will get you to put down what you would like in a 1817 018

896121 T 54 gshMM i policy section. And then we can address that as one or the 2 a pproaches be cause unless the commissioners are directly 3 involveo, it doe sn't make any sense. 4 COMMISSIONER GILINSKY: I periodically put these b things toge ther and read them out loud to the public. So I o am prepared to do tha t. 7 CHAIRMAN AHEARNE: How would you pref er to do it? e Would you like Ed to generate a set of questions? Y COMMISSIONER GILINSKY: I think it would be 10 useful. That's precisely the kind of brief paper that OPE .11 can turn out to perform a very useful service and they have 12 a cc e ss -- 13 CHAIRMAN AHEARNE: Would you be very upset if what 14 it enaed up looking like is the extracts of here are the 15 questions and these have to be the answers? lo COMMISSIONER GI! !NSKY: Well, but at least you 17 would have something to check the text here against and J .k le at a short list of questions ano decide, yes, these are the 19 right questions. Now let's see whether the text here, in 20 fact, answers tnem or doesn't answer them. 21 You know, if they have their little crib sheet, and the 22 fact that they have prepared this from it, fine. But I 23 think if you sit down and ask what the questions are, if you 24 haven't done that bef ore, you may come up with a diff erent 2S answer. 1817;019

89o1213' 55 ashMM i CHAIRMAN AHEARNE: That's true. 2 MR. BdCKERLEY: Also, the questions can be raised 3 and listed in order of importance a lot easier then just t he 4

answers, b

COMMISSIONER GILINSKY: You have to start with a o small list in looking at a larger document. 7 CHAIRMAN AHEARNE: You are leaving today? 6 COMMISSIONER GILINSKY: I won't be back after 9 today until the first week of the new year. 10 CHAIRMAN AHEARNE: Well, I think, really - get 11 mucn usef ul impact to this -- do you have any problem with 12 sending out the program list that the staff worked up? 13 COMMISSIONER GILINSKY: (Nods in the negative. ) 14 CHAIRMAN AHEARNE: I guess that's what we'll do. 15 Sam, if you put together the program section in the back, lo you can at least tell the staff these are -- the commi ssion 17 has agreed to go forward on those. lo Ed, you'll have to generate a list of questions and we ly will pl an on staf f -- 20 COMMISSIONER GILINSKY: And I'd keep it pre tty 21 short. 22 CHAIRMAN AHEARNE: It would probably be useful if 23 you coula get tho se to Commissioner Bradford before so that 24 he could provide his comments on it next week and we will 2b just have to see where we go f rom that. 1817 020

961214' 56 gshMM i I guess I'd be talking about a one-or two-page 2 memorandum that s ay s, l oo k, these are the important 3 questions bef ore the agency. 4 COMMISSIONER BRADFORD: Let's see. The only 5 result of Inis program section will be that there have o been some revisions of the draft. 7 CHAIRMAN AHEARNE: It will be telling them to put 6 these into the program effort. 9 In other words, it's not changing what the programs are. 10 It's telling them to put effort into trying to line them up. 11 COMMISSIONER BRADFORD: It repackages the program. ^1(( 12 CHAIRMAN AHEARNE: Right. All right. V 7 13 ( Whe rue pon, at 2:50 p.m., the hearing was 7 14 ad journ ed. ) 15 16 17 le 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 1817 021

DRAFT 12/20/79 FISCAL YEARS 1982-86 POLICY, PLANNING, AND PROGRAM GUIDANCE (PPPG) I. INTRODUCTION This document provides guidance from the Commission to the staff on policies that are the basis of NRC planning and multi-year budget preparation.* The PPPG document has two parts. The policy and planning guidance section states broad policies, the implications of these policies, and other factors that influence the planning of NRC programs. The program guidance section reflects the Commission's instructions in the major program areas; program guidance may change substantially each year as the staff achieves earlier objectives and as the policy and planning guidance evolves. This PPPG covers the fiscal years ~1982-1986. Since this is the first PPPG to be issued by the Counission, the policies also apply to fiscal years 1980 and 1981. The primary NP.C mission is to protect the public and the environment in the uses of nuclear facilities and materials. In protecting the public, NRC must (1) determine what level of protection is adequate, and (2) assure that this level of protection is achieved and maintained. A number of policy statements in the PPPG address these two fundamental issues. II. POLICY AND PLANNING GUIDANCE A. Policy Guidance The following are statements of NRC policies and practices which are to serve as guidelines for the agency activities.

• This document focuses on NRC's health, safety and environmental policies and programs.

It is not intended to be all-inclusive. 1817 022

. DRAFT 12/20/79 1. Risk Assessment [ Level of Protection] a. Through its licensing actions, t:ie NRC has implicitly deter-mined the level of protection of the public health and safety that it deems adequate and is to be maintained by the nuclear industry. Thus, no explicit determination of an adequate level of protection has been made, b. NRC will describe to the public the risks of nuclear activities and the uncertainties in the judgments of risk. The risks of nuclear activities should be described in the context of the risks of alternative means of providing the electrical energy or required services. Public input will be solicited in developing regulations and, through interactions with Congress and through rulemakings and hearings, NRC will seek public judgments on the acceptability of various levels of nuclear risk. [the risks of nuclear activities.] c. The NRC will attempt to make an explicit determination of the level of protection of the public health and safety that it believes is adequate based on statutes, public input, and NRC's subjective and cuantitative evaluations. To this end, NRC will accelerate the development and use of means for assessing the levels of protection associated with license.d nuclear activities. 2. Achieving Adequate Protection of Public Health and Safety a. Licensed nuclear activities will be regulated by NRC so as to achieve and maintain adequate protection of the public health and safety. Licensees who cannot achieve and maintain this level of protection will not be permitted to operate. 1817 023

3-b. Even though in making regulatory decisions to assure adequate protection, some consideration of the costs involved may be implicit in the evaluations of the practicality of the means of providing adequate protection, cost-benefit balancing is not appropriate for determining whether to require' achievement of a specific level of protection. However, explicit con-sideration of the costs which the licensee or its customers might incur in achieving the necessary level of protection is appropritate in evaluating alternative methods for achieving that level and for determining, after achievement of the necessary level of protection, whether measures providing an even greater degree of protection should be taken. In NRC regulatory decisions every effort should be made to identify explicitly any economic considerations that may be involved and to indicate their effect on the decision. c. In decidir.g whether an operating nuclear facility provides adequate protection of the public health and safety, NRC will consider the public health and safety implications of not operating the facility as well as the potential radio-logical risks associated with its operation. d. Recognizing that accidents and theft, sabotage and other illegal acts can occur, NRC will place increased emphasis on measures that can minimize their harmful consequences. e. Priority, in terms of resources and schedules, will be pro-portioned to those NRC activities to the degree that they are expected to have the greatest effect on reduction of risks to the public health and safety. First priority will be assigned to assuring that operating facilities achieve and maintain adequate levels of protection of the public health and safety. However, assuring that facilities are designed and constructed to achieve adequate protection must also have high priority, since these facilities will soon operate. Only facilities that are designed and constructed properly can be continuously operated in a manner that 'j g j 7 y 4 achieves and maintains adequate protections. 0R e. The overriding NRC priority, in terms of resources and schedules, will be assigned to assuring that operatirq f acilities achieve and maintain adequate levels of protection of the public health ar.d safety. Priorities of NRC activities that involve those NRC resources not engaged in assuring adequate levels of protection for operating facilities, will be assigned according to risk-reduction potential, i.e. activities expccted to achieve the greatest reduction in risk to the public health and safety will be assigned the highest priority, f. NRC supports and will implement the Presidential mandate for improving government regulation by requiring careful con-sideration of the benefits and costs of alternative ways to achieve regulatory objectives. NRC will systematically review all safety regulations for content and structure. Resources permitting, this initial review will be completed by 1984 and subsequent reviews will be made on a five to seven year cycle. [on a continuous basis.] g. In dealing with licensees who are unable or unwilling to comply with NRC rerJirements, NRC will emphasize prompt and vigorous enforcement. The goal of the enforcement program will be to increase each licensee's incentives for compliance and to insure that a licensee will not benefit by violating t'RC regulations. h. NRC will actively encourage and support licensee initiatives that will provide greater public protection.

i. The objectives of NRC regulation will not only be to provide protection in the near term, but also to provide adequate protection of future generations.

NRC will not permit the licensing of facilities if the NRC does not have confidence that the waste they generate can be safely disposed of. ~ 1817 025

j. Maintenance of radiation exposures as low as reasonably achievable (ALARA) is a fundamental objective of NRC's radiation protection activities.

k. With respect to its international responsibilities, the NRC recognizes that the proliferation of nuclear explosive devices poses a direct threat to the security interests of the United States and continued international progress toward world peace. Hence, in discharging its statutory mandate relating to the import and export of nuclear materials, equipment, and facilities, the NRC will seek to confirm the reliability of the U.S. in meeting its supply comitments to nations which adhere to effective non-proliferation policies by establishing procedures to facilitate the timely processing of export licenses. Concerning its statutory role in other U.S. nuclear activities, the NRC will provide independent assessments and validations of Executive Branch decisions. B. Planning Guidance The material that follows expands on these general policy statements, provides more guidance on certain activities that the staff should undertake to implement the policy guidance, and contains additional information for use in planning NRC programs. 1. Priorities for regulating nuclear power reactors are: a. The safety of operating power reactors will receive first priority based upon the potential consequences of reactor accidents and the realization of the greater uncertainty in the probabilities of these accidents. Specific actions required to improve the safety of operating power reactors include: 1817 026 (1) Applying the lessons learned from the Three Mile Island accident to all operating reactors. (2) Resolving important generic safety issues and implementing any changes to all reactors. (3) Requiring older reactors where necessary to meet the level of protection of public health and safety NRC considers adequate. (4) Requiring accountability of individual licensee employees and management f" important safety functions. b. Resources allocateJ for power reactors under construction will be directed at assuring that these reactors are designed and constructed so as to provide adequate public protection after they are licensed to operate. NRC will require QA/QC programs that ensure plants are built to achieve this objective. 2. Greater NRC presence is needed at major licensed facilities, and licensees need better awareness of regulatory requirements both to provide a better basis for NRC to determine adequacy of licensee performance and tu improve licensee performance. a. Greater presence at nuclear power plants and other selected facilities will be attained primarily through the Resident inspection program. The staff will carefully consider the need to increase its presence at other locations, such as vendor facilities. b. Greater presence at materials licensees will be attained primarily through increased frequency of inspection where warranted by licensee performance on either an individual or generic (licensee-type) basis. 1817 027 c. Enhancement of licerisee awareness of regulatory requirements will be attained primarily through increased use of bulletins, circu!ars, information notices, and generic letters, d. NRC on-site inspection will focus more on the direct verifi-cation and observation of licensee activities and operations and less on audit of licensee records. NRC will continue to improve its own capabilities for independent and confirmatory measurements as a means of direct verification of licensee operations and performance. 3. To support its oversight of the licensed nuclear industry and recognizing the probability of resource limitations, NRC will consider developrunt of inspection assistance programs with third parties, such as national standards organizations, provided their capabilities are judged adequate for the proposed tasks. 4. NRC will require key licensee employees including certain management and maintenance personnel to be adequately qualified. NRC staff will consider taking a direct role in training and testing of these key employees. 5. The emergency response capabilities of NRC and licensees need improvement. Specific near-term priorities includes: a. Improving NRC, licensee and State / local emergency procedures. Every facility or activity that could pose significant risks to the public will have an NRC and FEMA-approved emergency plan. An NRC rulemaking procedure has been initiated to require this approval. In addition, the Presidnet has directed FEMA to take the lead in off-site emergency planning and response and to review State emergency plans for operating reactors by June 198u. 1817 028

8-b. Providing the communications, upgrading the communications and other equipment required for prompt and appropriate NRC response to emergencies. c. Delineating specific responsibilities of NRC people and organizations, licensees, States, and others in an emergency. d. Requiring instrumentation that will function properly and provide needed information on the status and condition of key equipment during an accident. e. Requiring instrumentation that can measure radiation releases around major nuclear facilities. f. Developing and implementing an emergency planning zone concept and consequence mitigation strategies that will allow NRC to assist FEMA to plan for actions to minimize public harm in the event of an accident. 6. NRC risk assessment activities will continue with high priority directed to understanding more fully the individual and collective risks posed by nuclear activities. As this knowledge develops, it will be used as a means of focusing NRC inspection and other regulatory attention on those licensee systems and activities that are judged to be the greatest potential contributors to risk. 7. NRC needs major improve.nents in its efforts to collect, analyze, disseminate, and act upon operational data relevant to the safe operation of major licensed facilities. NRC will take steps to ensure that licensee-provided data is complete and accurate, that this data is systematically and thoroughly analyzed to identify possib N precursors or generic problems, and that the results of this analysis are promptly and appropriately acted upon, e.g. coordinated feedback of current operating data into the licensing process, operator and maintenance programs, and plant and equipment designs. The analysis of operational data 1817 029

-g-will also be used to help identify those licensees whose activities present greater risks, so that appropriate remedial action can be taken. 8. The purposes of NRC's enforcement program are to obtain prompt correction of licensee weaknesses and to deter future noncompliance through the threat of strong corrective measures. NRC will con-tinue its efforts to improve the enforcement program by: (1) adopting an aggressive enforcement strategy that seeks more frequent use of stronger enforcement measures, such as NRC's increased civil penalty authority, when situations warrant, (2) processing enforcement cases much more rapidly, and (3) assuring that noncompliance is more expensive than compliance. 9. NRC will reemphasize research efforts that support the safety of operating nuclear reactors. Particular attention will be devoted to the support of: reactor licensing, inspection and regulations development activities; human factors; analysis of transients; and structural and seismic qualification. It is important that research be focused on identifiable needs; however, the originators of research must also have fle'ibili+y in directing work that has potential longer-term payofts. 10. Risks associated with thA large number of different types of materials licensees are not sufficiently known. Concurrent with its efforts on power reactors, NRC will try to define more pre-cisely the nature and extent of risks posed by these licensees. Based on the results of these efforts, NRC will assess its regu-lations and make appropriate improvements,

11. NRC waste management ef# orts will focus on the development of licensing criteria for waste repositories.

These criteria will be based on a defense-in-depth strategy that requires thorough consideration of various types of sites, demonstrated capabilities of the waste form selected and the interaction of the waste form and packaging with the geological, hydrological, and engineered 1817 030

. systems invo'.ed. NRC will promulgate its criteria as soon as possible so that the licensing of waste repositories will provide for adequate protection of the public and is not unnecessarily delayed.

12. NRC safeguards efforts will focus on the development and enforcement of adequate, consistent, requirements for each of the various types of activities subject to NRC safeguards regulations. Particular attention will be given to reducing the uncertainty associated with determining the cause of inventory differences and contingency planning for safeguard-related incidents.

13. The staff will conduct periodic evalucations of NRC programs.

NRC will accelerate ongoing self-examinations in the following areas, answering such questions as: a. Regulatory requirements and standards. Are they adequate to protect the public, assuming licensee compliance? Are they easily understood and consistent? Should some requirements be added or eliminated? b. Licensing. Is the licensing process structured and managed in a way that leads to adequate public protection yet provides timely reviews of license applications? c. Inspection and enforcement. Is the inspection program oriented to focus on the most important aspects of each licensee's activity? Is the level of effort expended on various activities of licensees appropriate? d. Research. Are there important areas that require additional effort or areas that should be eliminated or reduced? Is the research program well planned over the long term and managed so that its results are incorporated into NRC programs? 1817 031

. C. Managing NRC External Affairs NRC's relationships with people and organizations outside the agency are important because NRC serves the public in regulating thousands of licensees, receives oversight from Congress, supports national policies of the Executive Branch, and shares regulatory responsibilities with other Federal agencies and with State and local governments. The following policies support the previously stated policies and provide guidance for NRC's interactions with the groups described above. 1. NRC is dedicated to conduting its activites openly. Consequently, NRC will make its deliberations and products readily accessible to any interested persons or organizations limited only by con-sideration of applicable laws. NRC will provide complete and timely information -- in " plain English" -- on significant regu-latory activities to licensees, Congress and the public. To assist the general public in its understanding of NRC policies and programs, NRC will develop and distribute basic information about NRC licensing activities. 2. NRC will solicit diverse views -- both from inside and outside NRC -- on major regulatory issues, proposed actions, and technical products. NRC will give consideration to public and staff con-cerns that have sigrificant potential impact on protecting the public. 3. Active participation in the NRC regulatory process by an informed public is beneficial both to the public and to NRC. A Commission majority has endorsed the principle of croviding technical and financial assistance to members of the public who wish to partici-pate in NRC proceedings and are able to do so effectively. Implementation of this endorsement must be consistent with Congressional action and guidance. -1817 032 i

. 4. NRC will work with other agencies and organizations / councils -- Federal, State, and local --to insure that the public is ade-quately protected in areas where responsibility is shared and to insure that NRC regulation is, when possible, consistent and compatible with that of other agencies. 5. NRC will provide to the Department of Energy or other developmental agencies advice and consultation concerning licensing of new nuclear technology. D. Internal NRC Management Deleted. III. PROGRAM GUIDANCE Note: A. This section will be provided in phases, tied principally to the schedule of procram presentations by lead office directors to the EDO. 1817 033 '

. B. For each of a number of program areas, this section will provide: -- Background information -- Long-term program goals -- Specific objectives and planned accomplishments (current, FY 82-86) -- Planning assumptions C. The program areas described in this section will also be tracked in the Decision Unit Tracking System (DUTS). Although the preceding policy and planning guidance may eventually require changes in NRC's current list of major program areas, the prcgrams currently being tracked by DUTS in FY 80 are: Decommissioning Waste Management Spent Fuel Storage Qualification of Safety-Related Equipment Unresolved Safety Issues Health Effects from Low-level Operating Reactor Amendments Radiation Systematic Evaluation Program Fire Protection Revised Inspection Program Power Reactor Casework Emergency Planning Risk Assessment Fuel Cycle and Material Safety Long-Range Research Plan Transportation International Efforts Domestic Safeguards Operational Data Analysis 1817 03 .}}