ML19259A652
| ML19259A652 | |
| Person / Time | |
|---|---|
| Issue date: | 12/21/1978 |
| From: | Ahearne J, Bradford P, Gilinsky V, Hendrie J, Kennedy R NRC COMMISSION (OCM) |
| To: | |
| References | |
| REF-10CFR9.7 NUDOCS 7901080406 | |
| Download: ML19259A652 (32) | |
Text
J NUCLEAR REGULATORY COMMISSION -
IN.THE MATTER OF:
PUBLIC MEETING GENERAL ADMINISTRATIVE MEETING C,
Picts - Washington, D. C.
Date -
Thursday, 2.1 December 1978 Pages 1-31
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DISCLAIMER r"$_ $.:y.:.
This is an unofficial transcript of a meeting of the United States Nuclear Regulatory Commission held on pursday, 21 December 1978 in the Commission's officer at 1717 H Street, N. W., Wasiu ngton, D. C.
The meeting was open to public attendance and observation.
Th'is transcript has not been reviewed, corrected, or edited, and it may contain inaccuracies.
' ('
The transcript is intended solely for general infoma'tfonal purposes.
As provided by 10 CFR 9.103, it is not part of the femal or infor. mal record of decision of the matters discussed.
Expressions of opinion in this transcript do not necessarily reflect final de' terminations or beliefs.
No pleading or other paper may be filed with the Commission in any proceeding as the result of or addressed to any statement.or argument
~ ' '
contained herein, except as the Commission may authorize.
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2 CR 1888 1
UNITED STATES OF AMERICA MIMIE: mask herm 2
NUCLEAR REGULATORY COMMISSION 3
4 5'
PUBLIC MEETING 6
GENERAL ADMINISTRATIVE MEETING 7
Commissioners' Conference 8
Room (1130) 1717 H Street, N. W.
9 Washington, D.
C.
~~
_. 10 Thursday, 21 December 1978
.._. _ _ _... _ j j
. l2
...The Commission met, pursuant to notice, at.1:50 p.m.
. _ - - -13 BEFORE:
,'a;
's--
I4 DR. JOSEPH M. HENDRIE, Chairman
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15~
' VICTOR GILINSKY, Commissioner 10 RICHARD T. KENNEDY, Commissioner 17 PETER A.
BRADFORD, Commissioner 18 JOHN F. AHEARNE, Commissioner 19 20 P RESENT :
21 Messrs. Scinto, Gossick, Pedersen, Kelley, Shea, Hoyle, 22 Chilk, Devine, Stoiber.
23 24 co-Federal Reporters, Inc.
25
3 CR1888 P R,O C_ E_ E,D_ I_ N G_ S tape 10 CHAIRMAN HENDRIE:
Okay, if we could come to order; david 1 l
we have an operative board.
i i
We don't seem to have drawn much of a crowd on 5
this one.
6 (Laughter.)
MR. SHEA:
The notice was administrative 8
procedure, and that may have disguised the import-export --
CHAIRMAN HENDRIE:
I think there are some i
10 other things I'm going to start titling general administrative 11 I
meeting.
12 (Laughter.)
(
COMMISSIONER KENNEDY:
Would you like a larger 14 attendance?
We can arrange that.
15 CHAIRMAN HENDRIE:
Just send someo e into the 16 street and ask somecne to step up.
17 I
COMMISSIONER KENNEDY:
Telephone cell?
You 16 generate all kinds of interest, depanding on what you tell i
19 them on the telephone call.
l CHAIRMAN HENDRIE:
Okay, I would like to quit 21 this as fairly close to 2:30 as scheduled; maybe not right 22 on the dot.
23 This is the administrative meeting.
}
24 COMMISSIONER GILINSKY:
He's got several items.
,pg,, g,,,,,, %,
25 MR. CHILK:
It's more of a laundry list.
h
e 4
I david 2 CHAIRMAN HENDRIE:
The administrative meeting --
2 Sam has prepared a list with the view that he wants to 3
j be fairly sure that he doesn't run out of items before we run out of time, and I think he has adequately covered j
5 himself.
6 (Laughter.)
7 COMMISSIONER KENNEDY:
Until next June.
8 (Laughter.)
9 CHAIRMAN HENDRIE:
Let's take a look at export-10 !
import license review procedures and who is going to lead l
i us through that.
12 Would you care to recap the committee here?
(
13 MR. ROTHSCHILD:
We had a Commission meeting about I#
a month ago and tentatively agreed to procedures.
We have 15 now drafted those procedures and spelled it out in some i
16 detail, and we have affirmative votes from the chairman's I
office and Commission Kennedy's office, and we have not 0
heard from the other three commission offices.
1 19 MR. KELLEY:
Might you note too that there was l
20 one major significant difference between staff view and 21 our view on procedures?
22 Jim, did we accurately state what the difference i
23 was, in your opinion?
l l
MR. SHE' A : I think so.
Yes, it was, co-Federal Reporters, Inc.
25 I might ask about one point:
you talked chout i
I i
6
5 I
david 3 modifying the interagency procedures.
It might be 2
considered rather more clarifying than procedures as we 3l understood them.
I But other than that, I think it was a fair i
I 5
capsulization.
0 MR. KELLEY:
Perhaps you can state what that 7
difference is.
O MR. ROTHSCHILD:
At the Commission meeting --
9 CHAIRMAN HENDRIE:
Would you elaborate on that a 10 little bit just to sort of get us all up to speed, especially 11 I
me.
I I2 MR. ROTHSCHILD:
At the Commission meeting, we 13 i
managed to reach agreement, tentatively, on the procedures I#
to be followed for export-import licenses which were issued 15 by the NRC.
The Commission did not have time to address
'7 what kind of time schedules and procedures they wanted for I
18 those matte s where we were consulted on by other exeucitme 19 branch agencies, suchascomponentslicensedbytheDepartmentl 20 of Commerce and subsequent arrangements and technology 21 transfers which the Department of Energy was authorized to 22 I
approve.
23 On pages 6 through 8 of the package before you, i
24 we have tried to set forth those procedures, generally 25 following the guidelines that the Commission tentatively l
l 3
6 david 4 I
agreed to for their own export-important license procedures.
2 The NRC had no problems with procedures adopted k
3
{
by the Commission for the export-import license, but they wondered whether it was premature at this time to I
5 try to adopt procedures governing the time limits that would 6
be placed on providing views to other government agencies.
7 The major staff complaint, as I understand it, 8
is that on the major cases,that will require Commission action rather than staff action.
I 10 1 The time limits set forth on the interagency 11 procedures are not very realistic.
They provide for 12 some items --
13
(
CHAIRMAN HENDRIE:
Much too long?
COMMISSIONER KENNEDY:
Seems so to me.
(Laughter.)
f 16 I assumed that's what they wanted.
i 7
COMMISSIONER BRADFORD:
In major cases they 18 shorten them up.
L 19 CHAIRMAN HENDRIE:
Yes, that's what I mean.
COMMISSIONER KENNEDY:
I would have thought 21 that would be reasonable.
22 i
CHAIRMAN HENDRIE:
The 30 day period applies to i
23 routine and trivial matters.
If we get down to something 24 Ac.Faderal Resm rers, Inc.
25 COMMISSIONER GILINSKY:
24?
i i
l
7 I
david 5 COMMISSIONER KINNEDY:
Have they extended it to 2
72?
3 j
(Laughter.)
l l
I CHAIRMAN HENDRIE:
Sorry, I'm speaking loosely.
l 5
I'm sorry, I didn't mean to upset the whole thing here.
6 Mr. Rothschild?
7 Anyway, go ahead.
MR. ROTHSCHILD:
the issue is it's staff's view that when these interagencies procedures were adopted, 10 I
those procedures were contemplated for the more routine 11 l
cases.
In the major cases, the more controversial requests the Commissioners would need to act upon, there was 13 really no intent to set forth 30 day time limits on those.
i 14 The Commission would generally have more 15 l
than 30 days to respond to such items, more than they did i
on the China request.
CHAIRMAN HENDRIE:
Ho-ho.
l COMMISSIONER KENNEDY:
I thought it made good 19 sense to put those time limits on.
l 20 Let the record note.
i MR. ROTHSCHILD:
It's staff's view that perhaps 22 the staff with Commission authorization can negotiate l
23 with the executive branch to clarify the interagency 24 procedures some to provide the Commission more than the i
co-Fateral Reporters, Inc.
25 20 or 30 day time limits on the major cases and that to 6
hold off on procedures until we'5 ave those time limits.
l
8 I
david 6 COMMISSIONER KENNEDY:
Is there any limitation 2
on the number of years that we would permit?
Is this an l
3l open ended operation entirely?
I I
What is it that the staff is going to negotiate?
l MR. ROTHSCHILD:
I think they would try to --
l 6
like some kind of procedure where it would be generally 7
known that the Commission would be af forded more than 20 8
or 30 days on major cases.
COMMISSIONER KENNEDY:
What does that mean?
10 MR. ROTHSCHILD:
The executive branch would not 11 act on the request --
12 COMMISSIONER KENNEDY:
Let's take an order of l-13 magnitude; say it goes from 20 days to 20 years.
Assuming 14 it won't reach that far, how far wi31, it reach, backing up i
i 15 t
from 20 years?
16 l
What are we talking about?
What is it they're 3
I going to negotiate?
18 MR. SHEA:
What we had suggested in our comments 19 on this was that the limits that are provided for in these I
t 0
major cases be comparable 'to those for NRC license exports I
l under the Nonproliferation Act, which is, I think, a
22 reasonable period of time for handdng thesecomplex
- cases, j
3 and that's a 60 day period we have for total Commission l
24 co Federal Reporters, Inc. !
25 COMMISSIONER. KENNEDY:
Total action?
I 6
9 david 7 I
CHAIRMAN HENDRIE:
Total action, 60 days?
2 COMMISSIONER KENNEDY:
That sounds reasonable 3
to me.
As long as we're talking about negotiating that, 4
I would certainly be in favor of you going ahead and l
l 5
nego tiating.
But nothing beyond that without coming back 6
here.
7 That would be my view.
8 COMMISSIONER AHEARNE:
Of course it would be 9
a very substantial coup if you could negotiate an 10 I agreement where they would give us 30 days.
l II COMMISSIONER BRADFORD:
It's kind of important, I2 at least, to hold them to their own terms.
13 COMMISSIONER AHEARNE:
Sometimes we get a one-Id ended view.
15 MR. ROTHSCHILD:
If you ask for 60 days, they 1
16 might give you a week.
I guess it was the OGC and OPE l
I7 view that we should go ahead and adopt procedures right 18 now, that the procedures be adopted should be consit. tent
{
19 with the interagency procedures as they have now been
. 20 approved by the agencies; and then the staff wants to go 2I out and try to negotiate additional time periods, start 22 the negotiation process, and if they're able to succeed 23 in these negotiations, we will modify these procedures 24 i
at some later date to lengthen the time periods set forth, co Federal Reporters, Inc.
25 I guess it's our view, let's go ahead and have l
.10 david 8 I
procedures right now rather than wait for weeks while 2
negotiations go on with at best uncertain possibilities 3
l for success.
i COMMISSIONER BRADFORD:
That's scarecely going 5
to strengthen the staff's negotiating position,that the 6
Commission has adopted shorter periods before they even 7
start.
O CHAIRMAN HENDRIE:
I don't think it would make 9
much difference.
We have, after all --
10 1 COMMISSIONER KENNEDY:
We've also agreed -- we i
11 will already agree to the interagency --
I2 CHAIRMAN HENDRIE:
-- interagency ac.reement 13 which hasn't managed to affect things much in the cases Id at hand.
15 These are a much less formal proposition.
These 16 are just sort of Commission internal rules.
COMMISSIONER BRADFORD:
Before I sort of wrote l
18 I
out my side of whatever protocols were necessarv in the i
19 interagency agreement, I guess I would at least like to j
0
-see the efforts of staff -- see the effects of the staff -
21 effort to negotiate the 60 days.
22 As someone suggested earlier, they might at least 23 1
get us up to affirm an agreement on the 30.
l 24 COMMISSIONER KENNEDY:
Let me suggest rather~than Ace-Federet Reporters, Inc.
25 hang this whole exercise up, that is a separable matter.
All l
i
11 david 9 I
the other aspects -- if we could, we could go ahead and 2
agree on those, and I would support Peter's notion that let's i
3l take that into account and see what the staff gets and I
then draft procedures that reflect the real world, not l
5 what we wish it were.
6 And we hope to be able to negotiate; but 7
what actually turns out to be something that can be 8
negotiated -- that would seem sensible to me.
And so 9
separate that part out altogether and go on and put the i
i 10 !
rest of it in place and negotiate the other questions.
l l
Would that be possible?
MR. ROTHSCHILD:
Yes.
The only question that 13 raises in my mind is what do we do in this interim period I#
while your negotiations are going on?
l 15 t
Do you want to tentatively adopt these without 16 i
ever putting them in writing?
i 17 I
COMMISSIONER KENNEDY:
Let me suggest without i
i 18 these; we have gotten along for the past four year.
I have l
a feeling, you know, for the next couple of months we can 20 i
i probably live through this.
COMMISSIONER AHEARNE:
With whom would you I
22 i
negotiate ?
MR. SHEA: Primarily the Department of Energy, i
24 i
COMMISSIONER AHEARNE:
I didn't mean the department i
AwFewW Rmonm, lm.
l 25 1
I mean who.
You don't have to give the names, just the I,
I
12 I
david 10 organizations.
2 MR. SHEA: I think one thought here on getting i
I 3l started on this is that it would be useful to have the 4
Commission be the one that addresses that to the people i
in the Department of Energy, Department of Commerce, 6
rather than from the staff.
COMMISSIONER KENNEDY:
In what way?
O MR. SHEA:
Well b the form of perhaps a letter 9
l from us pointing out these questions that we have the 10 experience we've had in operating this, and we think 60 l
11 days in an appropriate time period for cases of this 12 type; we came to that on the Nonproliferation Act.
And we could grant that quickly.
14 COMMISSIONER AHEARNE:
When would you be aiming 15 t
at signing at sometime (inaudible) an agreement.
i 16 MR. SHEA:
We think it should come from perhaps 17 the Secretary of Energy or his deputy, somebody fairly i
18 high level.
19 COMMISSIONER KENNEDY:
The Secretary of Energy is 20 goin3 to sit there and be asked to sign a paper dealing 21 l
with how many days this agency shall have to respond?
I 22 can't conceive of anybody saying anything like that, i
23 MR. SHEA:
Or his deputy.
l 24 COMMISSIOl'ER KENNEDY:
Or ihis deputy either, l
4
.pe,, g,,,,,,,,
25 for God's sake.
It's a multi-billion dollar organization i
o i
13 I
david 11 dealing with thousands and thousands of things a day.
MR. SHEA:
The reason I suggested --
3 l
COMMISSIONER KENNEDY:
Cripe almighty,what kind of an ape outfit are -- you know -- we've got to S
think about what the relative priorities of these issues 6
are or ought to be.
If they have to be settled by some 7
assistant secretary at the very highest --
0 MR. SHEA:
Perhaps so, but at this point, the 9
, Department of Energy has two different sections which handle 10 the two major consulations in which we engage.
One is 11 our technologies, and the other is a subsidiary.
So 12 we have to have somebody who I think can speak to the I
(
procedures for both of these, and that's the reason I 14 suggested somebody at a fairly senior level at :he I
15 Department of Energy to handle that.
l i
16 l
COMMISSIONER AHEARNE:
I think you have got to l
17 decide -- I think you have got to decide who you are l
18 i
going to ask and then whichever is the right place of 19 l
contact.
20 But I agree with Commissioner Kennedy.
You are-21 not going to get Schlesinger or Larry or Meyers to --
i 22 I
COMMISSIONER KENNEDY:
I would hope we wouldn't 23 even try.
Some evidence of good sense is a beginning point l
24 for some negotiations.
25 COMMISSIONER AHEARNE:
There has to be someone that s
14 davidl2 I
if some of these crunches come up we can then go back to it 2
cnd really try to raise our issue with --
3 l
MR. SHEA:
That's right.
Certainly you would 4
negotiate the details with somebody else at a lower level.
c l
COMMISSIONER AHEARNE:
For example, if you dealt 6
with the assistant secretary for international affairs as 7
your signator on here, that would be enough on some of 8
these problems coming up to really lean on it, whereas --
9 MR. SHEA:
We may have to work with two different l
l 10 I groups because this is a problem.
We have two different f
II parts --
l 12 COMMISSIONER AHEARNE:
We can decide which 13 one takes the lead.
- Id MR. SHEA:
Perhaps -- okay, we can work that 15 I
out, certainly.
16 COMMISSIONER AHEARNE:
Trip,is the 50 -- or 17 December 8th, the latest version?
Yes.
19 COMMISSIONER AHEARNE:
Let me ask a question:
on 20 l page 4 do you have -- is the position of the executive branch l
1 21 included in the action of the time limit?
Is it not possible l
22 i
the secretary will provide a 72 hour8.333333e-4 days <br />0.02 hours <br />1.190476e-4 weeks <br />2.7396e-5 months <br /> notice of the l
23 lappropriatetime?
f A series of questions on it, but could you sort of i
c..r.o.i n.corters, inc.
f 25 explain a little bit more how -- when you say the Commission i
i
15 I
davidl3 concludes action is not possible --
2 MR. ROTHSCHILD:
Something like the remaining
- l 8
e l
case you get down to 119.
We ended up with problems.
The 4
executive branch says, yes, we've got your answers.
Let's I
forget about this 120 day time limit.
If there are 6
circumstances like that where they are going to wait for us, then I can' t tell you what date we were going to act.
8 And so therefore this is just going to try to 9
set a time frame that once we get near the resolution of 10 !
the matter, let's give everyone 72 hours8.333333e-4 days <br />0.02 hours <br />1.190476e-4 weeks <br />2.7396e-5 months <br />.
11 Once we've got all the questions answered and 12 everyone is ready to act, the secretariat will then inform 13 s
the Commission of that.
14 COMMISSIONER AHEARNE:
I see.
The appropriate j
15 time then is the time af ter the 120 days has run out, 16 I
beyond 120 days?
17 I
Is that correct?
j t
18 f
MR. ROTHSCHILD:
Yes.
19 And that's to give us some flexibility there.
i We'll try to give the Commission as much time as possible 21 to then reexamine the matter and cast their votes and maybe 22 after informal discussions somewhere a reasonable date will 23 I
be set for Commission action, and then we'll -- before that 24 l
date expires, we'll give a 72 hour8.333333e-4 days <br />0.02 hours <br />1.190476e-4 weeks <br />2.7396e-5 months <br /> warning.
co.Federo6 Reporters, inc. I 25 I That's just to give us a flexibility in those 1
i i
16 I
david 14 types of cases.
2 COMMISSIONER BRADFORD:If you want to be sure the 1
3i flexibility is there.
I would suggest adding "and l
l i
unless the majority determines otherwise" at the end of that sentence:
"At that time, unless the majority determines 6
otherwise."
7 COMMISSIONER KENNEDY:
At the end of the footnote, 8
Peter?
COMMISSIONER BRADFORD:
No, I'm sorry, at the 10 !
end of the sentence to which the footnote is keyed.
I 11 l
One other point in the paragraph above that:
12 "If a majority votes to send an export, the Commissioners 13 who didn't participate in that decision, that is, whose s
14 views were still being weighted, seems to me, ought to l
15 have 24 hours2.777778e-4 days <br />0.00667 hours <br />3.968254e-5 weeks <br />9.132e-6 months <br /> to put together any kind of dissenting statement or what have you that he might want to make at 17 that point.
COMMISSIONER KENNEDY:
Do those have to go i
19 or can they follow?
COMMISSIONER BRADFORD:
They can follow, of course, but it seems to me it would be better practice to f
22 l-have the decisions and the dissent, if possible, at the 23 same time.
These normally wouldn't be the sort of 24 9
Yb Ace. Federal Reporters, Inc.1 25 But it seems to me that that Commissioner will not
\\
t I
17 davidl5 I
routinely have been part of a consulting and voting 2
process on the decision to send over his objection.
It 3
says that the secretary just ought to notify his office 4
that the decision's been made.
He ought to have --
5 COMMISSIONER KENNEDY:
I personally would favor 6
that; as you well know, there was a case in which I recall 7
being involved in in which I thought that was the normal 8
practice and indeed found --
9 CHAIRMAN HENDRIE:
I remember you telling me, 1
10 I as a matter of fact.
I II COMMISSIONER KENNEDY:
That's correct.
l 12 The record will make clear that I thought so 13 tien as I think so now, and I'm glad to see that Peter, having Id thought about this over time and with considerable l
15 deliberation has come around to the wise view which he now 16 puts forth.
j I7 COMMISSIONER BRADFORD:
Rather than rise to the 18 numerous debates that are possible in that sentence, let I9 me simply say that I do hold that view and agree with its l
20 logic.
21 (Laughter.)
{
22 COMMISSIONER AHEARNE:
I do.
I 23 COMMISSIONER KENNEDY:
If we can only get one 24 other Commissioner to say that that is a sound view, we co Federal Flecorters. Inc.
I 25 I
could have that as natural, regular policy in all matters.
I
18 davidl6 I
COMMISSIONER AHEARNE: I -- I wculd agree 2
with Peter's request.
It certainly --
3l CHAIRMAN HENDRIE:
Where does this go, Peter?
}
4 I
COMMISSIONER BRADFORD:
I would put it after l
5 "pending receipt of views from the Commissioner who has 6
not yet provided views."
7
" Ordinarily the Commissioner who has not 8
provided views will be given 24 hours2.777778e-4 days <br />0.00667 hours <br />3.968254e-5 weeks <br />9.132e-6 months <br /> notice befor'e the 9
action of the majority becomes official," or something like 10 that.
Anyway, that thought, whatever form it takes.
I I2 COMMISSIONER KENNEDY:
That's fine.
13 We will have to be sure that you check everything Id else now to make sure that it has conformed, lest we t
15 inadvertently have added a 24 hour2.777778e-4 days <br />0.00667 hours <br />3.968254e-5 weeks <br />9.132e-6 months <br /> period which may carry 16 I
beyond the statutory time unwittingly.
Okay?
I7 MR. KELLEY:
(Nodding affirmatively.)
1 0
COMMISSIONER KENNEDY:
So the 72 hour8.333333e-4 days <br />0.02 hours <br />1.190476e-4 weeks <br />2.7396e-5 months <br /> period 19 I
or whatever maybe needs adjustment.
l 20 I don't know.
I will leave that to you.
21 MR. KELLEY:
(Nodding affirmatively.)
22 CHAIRMAN HENDRIE:
Other comments?
23 (No response.)
24 Could we put our blessing upon pages 1 through c..Feders Reporters. Inc.
5 of this, then?
19 I
david 17 COMMISSIONER BRADFORD:
Yes.
Can I have 2
that same quote included in paragraph eight?
l COMMISSIONER AHEARNE:
Which paragraph?
COMMISSIONER BRADFORD:
Paragraph eight on page 5
5, whatever sentence works.
j COMMISSIONER KENNEDY:
How will that affect paragraph eight?
Let's see how that works.
8 What will the caveat apply to in paragraph eight?
COMMISSIONER BRADFORD:
Circumstances in which 10 the majority of Commissioners vote?
Or the Commission 11 I
should act on the application before the receipt of the l
12 requested information?
13 Onsce the secretariat has three Commissioners 14 voting yes to that propostition, then he notifes the l
15 l
other one or two Commissioners, and they have 24 16 hours1.851852e-4 days <br />0.00444 hours <br />2.645503e-5 weeks <br />6.088e-6 months <br /> --
COMMISSIONER AHEARNE:
Is that 24 hours2.777778e-4 days <br />0.00667 hours <br />3.968254e-5 weeks <br />9.132e-6 months <br /> before 18 the five days?
19 COMMISSIONER BRADFORD:
Well, it's 24 hours2.777778e-4 days <br />0.00667 hours <br />3.968254e-5 weeks <br />9.132e-6 months <br /> j
i 20 af ter the secretary gets the third vote, which could come 21 anywhere in the five days.
And it may well be in most l
22 cases the other Commissioner or Commissioners would say --
3 COMMISSIONER AHEARNE:
Well, what I was just f
24 asking, I think, is more a question of the relationship l
..po,, g,,,,,,,, %
25 of how this fits in.
l
20 I
david 18 In paragraph eight, if you put in that extra 24 days --
2 24 hours2.777778e-4 days <br />0.00667 hours <br />3.968254e-5 weeks <br />9.132e-6 months <br />, is that 24 hours2.777778e-4 days <br />0.00667 hours <br />3.968254e-5 weeks <br />9.132e-6 months <br /> before when the Commission 3
l votes to formally send its response, or is that 24 hours2.777778e-4 days <br />0.00667 hours <br />3.968254e-5 weeks <br />9.132e-6 months <br /> I
4 af ter they have voted to send their response?
5 COMMISSIONER KENNEDY:
Your Freudian slip was 6
of course no reflection on the accuracy of the process.
7 MR. ROTHSCHILD:
Once you've got your third 8
vote saying you don' t want to wait for the additional 9
information or views, then you will have 24 hours2.777778e-4 days <br />0.00667 hours <br />3.968254e-5 weeks <br />9.132e-6 months <br /> from that 10 !
point.
11 COMMISSIONER AHEARNE:
I guess -- I don't recall 12 the procedure.
I haven' t been here long enough to know.
I3 Is it 24 hours2.777778e-4 days <br />0.00667 hours <br />3.968254e-5 weeks <br />9.132e-6 months <br /> before the Commissioners who have now voted to take action, vote on what action to take?
{
i MR. ROTHSCHILD:
No, it's after they have voted to take action.
l 16 I7 COMMISSIONER AHEARNE:
They voted not only l
l 18 to go ahead and take action, but they voted on what action l
t 19 1
to take, so it's then 24 hours2.777778e-4 days <br />0.00667 hours <br />3.968254e-5 weeks <br />9.132e-6 months <br /> not to reargue whether j
20 action should be taken.
COMMISSIONER BRADFORD:
Right.
No further argument.
COMMISSIONER AHEARNE:
I got it.
Okay.
MR. ROTHSCHILD:
It's 24 hours2.777778e-4 days <br />0.00667 hours <br />3.968254e-5 weeks <br />9.132e-6 months <br /> before we get 24 m
Wea MH &m dat Q
m ad m n.
w.r. der neporters. anc.
25 COMMISSIONER KENNEDY:
It just ices the decision i
1 l
l
21 david 19 I
while the dissent gets written.
t MR. ROTHSCHILD:
And then in 24 hours2.777778e-4 days <br />0.00667 hours <br />3.968254e-5 weeks <br />9.132e-6 months <br /> we call l
2 l
IP and if there are dissenting opinions to be released, 4
they will be released at the same time.
l 5
COMMISSIONER _.AHEARNE:
Fine.
0 CHAIRMAN HENDRIE:
Okay.
May I assume pages 1
?
through 5 are blssed here?
O COMMISSIONER KENNEDY:
Aye.
9 COMMISSIONER AHEARNE:
Aye.
10 1 COMMISSIONER BRADFORD:
I'll even give you six.
CHAIRMAN HENDRIE:
Page 6 --
I I2 COMMISSIONER BRADFORD:
I'm sorry.
I won't either.
13 CHAIRMAN HENDRIE:
Page 6 is direct to the 30 day Id thing, which I took it you wanted to hold for a bit?
i COMMISSIONER BRADFORD:
Right.
I 6
COMMISSIONER KENNEDY:
And the same, I assume, I7 with page 8?
18 MR. KELLEY:
6, 7,
8, will be held while l
I9 negotiation would go forward.
20 I
COMMISSIONER BRADFORD:
Yes.
~ '
2I COMMISSIONER AHEARNE:
You know, I'm very serious, 22 i
I don't mean to be facatious.
I am much more interested at 23 this moment in trying to see if we can' t get some middle 24 AcEFederal Reporters. Inc.
level management person in the department that we can really.
25 begin to hold accountable to giving us the minimum amount of l
~
1
22 david 20 I
time, realizing they don't have the authority to do that, 2
but at least it's a point of contact.
Our problem is not 3l trying to get 30 to 60.
4 CHAIRMAN HENDRIE: I also have a notion --
5 never mind.
6 COMMISSIONER KENNEDY:
It's usually difficult 7
wid1 people who don' t work for you.
8 MR. DEVINE:
So you were talking before about 9
people to write to in DOE and so forth, and I think 10 I probably Schlesinger and O' Lear are not the people.
But II this is precisely what the NSC ad hoc group was established 12 to do, so it represents all agencies and Pickering as
(
13 chairman-designate would be the guy to correspond with on Id this issue, I would think.
COMMISSIONER KENNEDY:
Sounds reasonable to me.
6 COMMISSIONER AHEARNE:
Good point.
7 CHAIRMAN HENDRIE:
That is, take it to the IO committee which -- rather than the department?
l MR. DEVINE:
That's right.
20 CHAIRMAN HENDRIE:
I like that.
Good.
Cart it 21 up and see.
22 COMMISSIONER KENNEDY:
We will assume that that
' ~
23 will be -- that's who we will be writing to, Mr. Chairman.
1 24 COMMISSIONER BRADFORD:
I suggest, gentlemen, j
m-Federal Reporters, Inc.
25 that the Sunshine Law apply to their discussion.
23 I
david 21 (Laughter.)
2 MR. OPLINGER:
I would suggest this be kept 3l on a completely different track then to get them to live l
4 up to the deadlines that now exist.
And the two things l
5 ought not to get combined or mixed up.
6 There are two separate problems, really.
CHAIRMAN HENDRIE:
Yes.
If we don't cure one, 8
why gee, they could give us 120 days.
It's going to i
t 9
continue to be a couple of hours anyway.
,I l
10 Tab B; Lee, you want to warn us that there is 11 i
a heavy duty papers in our offices?
12 MR. GOSSICK:
Yes, sir.
I just would like to call attention to the fact that yesterday morning I 14 sent down to eata of the Commissioners separately and 15 then privately copies of the listing which we put together 16 as requested by OPM or what is to become PM designating l
17 our recommendation as to who we designate as senior 18 executive service people.
That deadline allegedly is 1 January.
I don't i
think anything is going to come to a terrible disaster if 21 we don't make it right on the day, but I think it should 22 l
get over to them early in January.
j 23 Certainly, I would hope sometime in the first week 24 ca. Federal Reporters, Inc, I
25 Dan Donohue and discuss, you know, the list with each of you and 1,
l l
l 24 david 22 I
then see if we can help in sort of perhaps resolving the 2
thing and getting a consensus.
3 CHAIRMAN HENDRIE:
I think you probably will 4
want to have that discussion with Lee.
If any Commissioner 5
doesn't, why maybe he could signal now, if you are clear on 6
that.
- 7 I think you had better go.
8 One of the things we are going to talk about in 9
about 15 minutes is agenda.
We aren't going to say much 10 about it.
I hadn't been planning to hold time for the next two weeks on the basis that people would be away and 12 staff will be awy and so on.
13 But that takes us past the time when this is --
14 well, in two weeks this thing will be long overdue.
Let's 15 see, next week you are going to be away, Peter?
16 1
COMMISSIONER BRADFORD:
Who else is going to be l
l
out?
i I
18 i
Would others be around maybe Thursday or Friday?-
l I9 MR. GOSSICK:
Maybe tomorrow, Peter?
20 i
COMMISSIONER BRADFORD:
All right.
2I COMMISSIONER AREARNE:
I can certainly meet 22 with them next week.
That would be no problem.
23 l
COMMISSIONER BRADFORD:
I'm going to have to do it
[
i 24 co.Federsi Reporters, Inc, tomorrow anyway.
I'd be glad to do it together with sor. cone I
25 else.
It might save Lee a trip down.
I I
25 I
david 23 COMMISSIONER AHEARNE:
Lee, if you're going to 2
be in next week, I'll see you.
3l MR. GOSSICK:
I'll be here all next week.
4 1
COMMISSIONER AHEARNE:
Let me just arrange a l
5 time.
0 MR. GOSSICK:
I'll see you tomorrow, then, 7
Commissioner Bradford.
O CHAIRMAN HENDRIE:
That's why I'm thinking about 9
next week rather than the following.
10 !
Can we perhaps -- can you manage to leave your 11 l
views on the matter, Peter?
l l
12 l
COMMISSIONER BRADFORD:
- Yes, i
CHAIRMAN HENDRIE:
Because if we are going to 14 try to get this thing back to the place where it's supposed 15 to go somewhere close to on time, I expect either we all i
16 i
agree individually or -- but some discussion may help i,
17 i
thrash out any differences in -- on the green there had 8
been reserve time on Thursday the 28th in the afternoon, 19 and we may want to put that back on.
l 20 l
COMMISSIONER KENNEDY:
Can you put it in there?
21 CHAIRMAN HENDRIE:
I suppose we can do anything i
22 that's handy for people.
Do you prefer it in the morning?
j 23 COMMISSIONER KENNEDY:
I would prefer it in the 24 morning if it can be arranged.
a-Fwwe nmorars, es 25 CHAIRMAN HENDRIE:
Okay.
Anything else that we i
I f
26 david 24 I
ought to know about that, Lee?
2 MR. GOSSICK:
I think that's all.
3 COMMISSIONER KENNEDY:
I can give yo a call.
f I
MR. GOSSICK:
Okay.
l 5
CHAIRMAN HENDRIE:
Tnere was some item connected 6
with delegation of authority in some of these 145-B 7
clearance cases.
8 Sam, do you want to take the lead on that or Jim 9
or who?
i 10 MR. KELLEY:
Well, Sam has simply raised with i
11 us whether we though it was legal to delegate the authority i
12 to grant these 145-B waivers with the understanding that I3
. the person in question would not be given access to classified Id information, j
l 15 We advised that we thought that it was legal to 16 do so.
The thing that you can't delegate,because the i
i 17 I
statute says so, is an actual access to classified information l 18 to a person who isn't clear.
19 But if you set it up in such a way that he
- 20 will be insulatcd, we think it's legal to do that based i
i i
21 on our observation of the way this is going.
I think it l
22 makes sense to do so.
23 So, with authorization in Sam's memo which 24 delegated to Lee with a couple of conditions; one, i t s co Federet Reporters, Inc, 25 a Commission staff office that will be consulted; that t'here l
i l
27 I
david 25 be an affirmative recommendation from security, and I 2
think at least implicit is that obsiously there's a need 3
l to do it in that particular case.
But that is the
~
proposition that is before you in the draft memo.
COMMISSIONER AHEARNE:
Jim, as _I understand it, 6
this is section 1617 MR. KELLEY:
Right.
COMMISSIONER AHEARNE:
That allows some delegations 9
excluded under 145, as you said, the national security 10 1 and siclosure aspect of it.
Is there a question as to when 11 the Reorganization Act eliminated the AEC, split ERDA and 12 NRC?
Since the general manager disappeared, that was an 13 integral function in that redelegation.
14 Is there any question as to whether the '74 15 i
Reorganization Act may have somewhat muddied the ability-I 16 to make that delegation?
17 MR. KELLEY:
I don't think it did.
It was g
18 muddied last summer when we didn't have a Commission and i
we were wondering whether Lee could be called the general l
20 manager.
21 But here the thing that can' t be delegated is 1
22 i
just access to information, j
\\
23 I
COMMISSION AHEARNE:
Yes, I'm familiar with that.
24 go,
,,,,,, l I was just wondering, in the '74 Act, as they made adjustment 25 l because the general management position was disappearing, was i
28 david 26 I
there any position added or not added that would affect 2
the ability to make this particular delegation which i
3 refers to the national security waiver?
4 MR. KELLEY:
Not that I'm aware of.
5 Marge, you looked at this in more depth.
I'm 6
fairly confident the answer is no.
7 CHAIRMAN HENDRIE:
Advice of counsel seems to be 8
that it's legal and it is not a very significant item, but 9
it may take off the Commission's agenda, you know, three 10 I or four or five or six minor affirmation items a year.
i 11 So, it would be thac much better.
I 12 All okay on that?
13 COMMISSIONER BRADFORD:
I'm delighted by the I4 deferencerto: legal advice.
j 15 MR. KELLEY:
So am I.
16 h
(Laughter.)
i I7 MR. GOSSICK:
I've asked Howard his opinion; he i
18 agrees.
COMMISSIONER KENNEDY:
It may be a new trend.
20 CHAIRMAN HENDRIE:
Okay.
Sam, would you rather 21 i
talk about affirmation procedures or get in that comment about 22 rechartering of NRC's advisory committees?
23 i
MR. CHILK:
Either one; I c.in take both of them i
i 24 up in less than five minutes, i
m.rene nmorms. ine.
l 25 CHAIRMAN HENDRIE:
Take up the rechartering one l
i
n
_ 29 I
david 27 first.
2 COMMISSIONER AHEARNE:
The affirmation might 3
take a little time.
i 4
MR. HOYLE:
The rechartering item, Mr. Chairman, l
5 comes up because there are two requirements in the 6
Federal Advisory Committee Act which are not in phase 7
time-wise.
The Advisory Committee Act requires that all 8
non-statutory advisory committees be given a lifespan of 9
only two years each time, and there are specific requirements 10 !
for renewing the committees.
I The timing of the Act was such that most 12 committees are up for renewal in January.
NRC's only 13 non-statutory advisory committee is the medical uses of 14 isotopes committee, is up for renewal this coming -- at the j
4 15 end of January.
The -- looking at whether or not to i
16 renew a committee, of course you need to decide whether 17 I
you still need that committee.
I 18 i
i But the Act also requires you every year -- not 3
19 I
every two years -- to look very hard at whether you need O
to continue all of your committees, including your 21 statutory ones so that you just went through last year in 22 i
March and April an annual comprehensive review, and you'll i
go through it again this coming March and April as to an l
23 24 m FewW Reormrs, lm
~
b 25 it is doing what it -- what you want it to do, whether it is j
i
30 I
david 28 doing something that your staff cannot do, whether it's doing something that some other agency or other committee l
3l cannot do.
I consulted with the committee management staff 5
in GSA, and they say that they believe that on the basis 6
of your annula comprehensive review you could, if you choose, 7
extend the life of your advisory committee for the two 8
year statutory period on the basis of the review-that you 9
conducted last year.
10 1 I believe that perhaps what we ought to do is --
l 11 is get the two in phase, so perhaps in March when I 12 recommend to you with the staff's recommendation as to
/
13 whether this committee should be continued, we should recharter it at that time again, for the record, so that l
15 I
it will come up for renewal and we can consider it each time
~l l
16 during the annual comprehensive review period.
l 17 So, I'm requesting at this time that we dispense g
18
_ with the in-depth review of whether you want to continue 19 i
the committee.
Let us extend it.
I'll write the proper i
20 I
letter to GSA, and go through the comprehensive review
[
21 in the normal fashion in March.
22 I -- the last letter we sent is here.
The
\\
23 letter we would use this time for the chairman would be 24 l
Ace Federal Reporters, Inc, 25 CHAIRMAN HENDRIE:
I recommend the proposition.
I i
i
g 31 I
david 29 Twice a year for these things is just absurb.
COMMISSIONER AHEAANE:
Agreed.
j COMMISSIONER KENNEDY:
Agreed.
i l
i CHAIRMAN HENDRIE:
Agreed.
l COMMISSIONER BRADFORD:
Fine.
CHAIRMAN HENDRIE:
So ordered.
- 7 I give you three minutes for affirmation O
procedures.
MR. CHILK:
Well, Commissioner Ahearne 10 I currently'has a major problem which I'm not aware of, I
11 so I would suggest that we pass that and see if I can l
12 work out the problem.
I CHAIRMAN HENDRIE:
All right.
14 (Whereupon, the Commission voted on short notice l-15 to hold a closed meeting.)
l 16 I
17 18 I
19 i
i 20 21 l
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i 24 co-Toderal Reporters, Inc.
25 i
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