ML19257C454
| ML19257C454 | |
| Person / Time | |
|---|---|
| Issue date: | 01/17/1980 |
| From: | NRC COMMISSION (OCM) |
| To: | |
| References | |
| REF-10CFR9.7 NUDOCS 8001290151 | |
| Download: ML19257C454 (28) | |
Text
ES&AL NUCLEAR REGUL ATORY COMMISSION IN THE MATTER OF:
P'UBLIC MEETIN".
EEO PROGRAM t
Place -
Washington, D. C.
Date -
Thursday, 17 January 1980 Pages 1 - 25 1839.019 '
Tele: bene:
(202)34.-3700 ACE - FEDERAL REPORTERS, INC.
OfficialReporters 444 North Capitol Street Washington, D.C. 20001 NATIONWIDE COVERAGE - DAILY 8001290 5l4
CR9199 s
DISCLAIMER This is an unofficial transcript of a meeting of the United States Nuclear Regulatory Commission held on Thursdav, 17 January 1980 in the Commissions's offices at 1717 H Street, N. W., Washington, D. C.
The meeting was open to public attendance and observation.
This transcript has not been reviewed, corrected, or edited, and it may contain inaccuracies.
The transcript is intended solely for general informational purposes.
As provided by 10 CFR 9.103, it is not part of the formal or informal record of decision of the matters discussed.
Expressions of opinion in this transcript do not necessarily reflect final determinations or beliefs.
No pleading or other paper may be filed with the Commission in any proceeding as the result of or addressed to any statement or argumerd contained herein, except as the Commission may authorize.
t 9
e 1839 020 o
O
l la 7'31oom/wbli UNITED STATES OF AMERICA t.. 9199 i
2 NUCLEAR REGULATORY COMMISSION 3>
I I
A l
I Si i
I 6
PUBLIC MEETING j
7 on 8
EEO PROGRAM l
l 9
i i
10 11 12 l
I 13 Commissioners' Conference Room, Room 1130, 1717 H Street, N.W.,
14 Washington, D.C.
15 Thursday 17 January 1980 l
i 16 17 The public meeting was called to order at 2:30 p.m.,
18 pursuant to notice, Commissioner Gilinsky presiding 19 IN ATTENDANCE:
20 COMMISSIONER VICTOR GILINSKY, Acting Chairman 21 COMMISSIONER RICHARD T. KENNEDY 22 COMMISSIONER JOSEPH M. HENDRIE i
23 COMMISSIONER PETER A. BRADFORD i
1839 021 2'
e Federal Reporters, Inc.
25
~
2 3
1 PEEEEEELEEE 2l COMMISSIONER GILINSKY:
We are here to get a report I
I 3l from the Executive Director on Equal Employment Opportunity i
4l matters and the progress of the agency over the last six l
3 months.
i 6
Mr. Gossick.
l 7
MR. GOSSICK:
Yes.
Thank you.
8 The briefing that we're going to give you today of a
i 9l course is one of the briefings required by the Authorization 10 Act which requires briefings to the Commission in a public i
11 meeting every six months.
It has not been quite six months i
12 ;
since the last one, but it was something like nine months l
13 between the other two, and this will bring us up current so 14 that we're starting off the next year with being on schedule.
15 I will ask Mr. Tucker to go ahead with the briefing l'
16 of the program.
l 17 COMMISSIONER GILINSKY; Mr. Tucker, please.
l 18 MR. TUCKER:
Thank you very much.
19 I had hoped that by now we would be in a position 20 to provide the Commission with details concerning the Action j
21 Plan for fiscal
'80.
Unfortunately the final instructions 22 relative to the plan were not finalized and issued by the i
23 Equal Employment Opportunity Commission until the latter part j
i 24 of December.
The date for submission of th'. fiscal '80 Plan l
e Federal Reporters, Inc.
25 was therefore slipped from December to February of this year.
1839 022 l
3
'2 1
As I mentioned at the previous Commission meeting, 2
affirmative a,ction planning which has been transferred to the 3l, Equal Employment Opportunity Commission from the former Civil l
4 Service Commission will undergo substantial change, To I
i 5
accommodate these changes, fiscal '80 has been designated a l
6 transition year for affirmative action planning, 7
This afternoon I will briefly go over the accom-8 plishments of the EEO program for fiscal '79 and provide some 9
information on the transition year requirements and the basis l 10 for establishing hiring goals for minorities and women.
II As you will noto in Table 1 of your handout, during 12 fiscal" year '79 the agency hired a total of 266 employees.
Of i
13 that total, 16.5 percent were minorities and 45,1 percent were 14 women.
This represents an increase of minorities and women 15 over the previous fiscal years.
16 Can I have the first Vugraph, please?
l 1
17 (Slide.)
{
l 18 A total of 131 new employees were hired by the NRC l t
I9 at Grades GS-ll and above.
While both minorities and women 20 made up 11.5 percent of the total, this rate represents an i
l 21 increase for minorities and a slight decrease of women hired j
22 at GS-ll and above.
23 Now should be focused on in analyzing this data is 24 the percentage of minorities and women in the civilian labor
.. Federal Roorurs, lme.
25 force.
Minorities represent about 16,7 percent of the civilian 1839 023
4 ab3 1
labor force.
When you equate this with the number of minori-2 ties that were hired, you can see that we're doing very well.
I i
3 With respect to the rate of hires, minorities t
4l represent about 4.7 percent of engineers in the civilian labor '
i Si force, all minorities.
When you look at the--
Most of our i
6 jobs as JG-ll and above are in the engineering disciplines, so i
7 here again we're doing much better than what one would expect 8
when you compare the number of individuals in the civilian l
l 9
labor force.
10 As far as women are concerned, women are about 41 11 percent of the civilian labor force, and you can see that as l
l 12 far as the percentage of hires are concerned, we're doing very ;
I 13 well here also.
Women about about 2,7 percent of all engineers.
14 in the labor force and at 11 and above, we have hired sub-stantially above that figure.
15 16 l COMMISSICNER GILINSKY:
Can I ask you, the GS-ll i
17 and above category, is our hiring you might say nationwide, 18 or are we hiring, you know, principally from a particular i
19 area, from a local area?
20 MR. TUCKER:
It's nationwide.
Most agencies hire 2.
nationwide.
The National Recruitment Act was to fill pro-22 fessional type jobs whereas most of your clerical type jobs 23 would be filled on a local basis.
i l
24 COMMISSIONER GILINSKY:
So you think it'is better l
Fewei Remners, lec.
l G
11 and above l
25 to look at the national statistics for the.'1 $ 3 9 02 4
5 ab4 1
categories?
2 MR. TUCKER:
Yes.
l 3l As far as the intern program is concerned--
4 May I have the next Vugraph, please?
{
5 (Slide.)
l t
6
-- of the total number of employees hired into the intern l
i 7
program, nine were women, including one minority woman, and 8
three minority men.
9 These figures represent, as you can see, a 60 l
l 10 percent -- that minorities represent about 60 percent of all 11 the intern positions that were filled during fiscal '79 and 12 reflects a steady increase, obviously, in the percent of I
13 minorities and women hired by the agency into the intern 14 program since fiscal '75 15 The agency has been able to attract a representa-l 16 tive number of minorities and women for both the co-op summer I
17 intern program since the beginning of operation in fiscal 18 year '75.
As you will note in Table 4 in your handout, the 19 percent of minorities and women in the co-op program has 20 increased from 45.3 percent in fiscal year '78 to 58.2 per-21 cent in fiscal year '79.
22 Table 5 on page 5 provides information on the i
23 summer intern program and indicates an increase in minority 24 female participation from 51 percent to 51,7 percent.
-Federal Reporters, Inc.
25 With respect to promotions, you will note in Table 1839 025
6 l
&c 1
6 on page 6 of the handout there were 584 promotions awarded 2
in fiscal year '79.
Of that total, 15 percent were minorities l 3l' and 43.3 percent were women.
.This represents an increase of I
l 4
both minorities and women over the previous yea..
5 May I have the next Vuaraoh, please?
(
i 6l (Slide.)
l I
7' At GS-ll and above, minority promotions have 8j fluctuated since fiscal year '77 However, the data shows i
that minority promotions were in an upward swing this past l
9-l 10 year, almost meeting the 1977 level.
Women, on the other hand) 11 l are showing a steady rise in the number of promotions received 12 over the years.
i 13 While approximately one-fifth of all employees were!
14 promoted during this past year, one-third of all women, one-15 quarter of all minorities, and one-sixth of all non-minority 16 men were promoted.
i f
I 17 Now again what you have to consider in analyzing l
l 18 this data is the percentage of minorities and women in the 19 NRC work force.
Minorities are 13 percent of the work force, 20 and if you compare that with the number of promotions, you 21 can see that we are doing very well in terms of the rate of l
i 22 promotion, j
i 23 COMMISSIONER GILINSKY:
1mayhavemissedsomethingl t
24 here.
What do you compare these numbers to in terms of the
- ederal Reporters, Inc.
25 Staff?
11339 026
7 c'6 1
MR. TUCKER:
What do you mean?
2 COMMISSIONER GILINSKY:
You're saying--
Oh, I see.
I 3
Is that the comparison?
You're saying 10.2 of the promotions l
4 went to this category?
l l
5 MR. TUCKER:
That's right, l
i 6
COMMISSIONER HENDRIE:
Whereas the base population 7
in the Category 4 comparison is--
i 8l MR. TUCKER:
Minorities are 13 percent of all i
i I
9 employees.
They are 8.8 percent of employees at GS-11 and 10 l above, and they received 10.2 pe; cent of the promotions.
j l
i 11 COMMISSIONER GILINSKY:
That's what I was looking l
12 l for.
l 13 MR. TUCKER:
Women represent 30 percent of the work 14 force and they received 43.3 percent in fiscal
'79, nine per-15 cent of tha employees at GS-ll and above, and they received i
16 17.7 percent of the promotions.
17 Now as far as our plan for fiscal '80isconcerned,l l
l 18 the EEO transition year activities will introduce a results-l I
19 oriented process with emphasis on quantifiable measures.
i 20 This will involve two phases leading to development of a com-l 21 prehensive multi-year affirmative action plan beginning in 22 fiscal year 1981.
This will be either on a three-or five-23 year cycle.
24 The first phase involves development of a work i Federal Reporters, Inc.
25 force, development of a work force profile.
This involves L839 027
a
- b7 1
analyzing the distribution of minorities and women -- well, 2
all employees in all occupations at all grade levels.
l l
3!
(Slide.)
j l
4 The second determination is a determination of under-
.I i
5i representation in the six most populous occupations in the l
6l
- agency, j
i 7
The third step in the process is to target at least 8
two of these occupations for affirmative action planning, 9
The next step is an analysis of impediments to i
10 affirmative action; that is, looking at selection barriers, II barriers in the selection process rather, or barriers with 12 respect to recruitment.
Also the agencies are required to 13 identify applicant sources; that is, looking at the' work Id force of the agency, internal candidates that are qualified 15 or qualifiable, looking at external sources of applicants, 16 that is the individuals already employed by the federal 17 government or the number of minorities and women in the l
18 civilian labor force or their representation at educational l9 institutions.
20 The next step is to establish hiring goals, 21 Following that, the agencies are required to deter,
i 22 n.ine recruitment strategy in relation to the goals that have i
l i
23 been established for hiring.
i 24 Then an affirmative action plan is developed, F.owei neponm, Inc.
25 And the last step is to deve3op an internal system l8391J28 I
9 1f for monitoring your progress in the area.
e'9 2
May I have the next Vugraph, please?
I
\\
3I (Slide.)
l I
4 Now thic chart provides information on the distri-i 5'
bution of all employees at all grade levels, and this will be 1
i t
I 6
used, obviously, as a guide to show us where there is under-7 representation and the degree of underrepresentation.
It will 8[
be used in the goal-setting process, j
i i
9' (Slide.)
t 10 This Vugraph provides information on the number, l
11 the perc2ntage of employees in the 20 most populous occupations 12 in the agency and provides further information as to which I
13 direction we should be focusing our effort with regard to l'
14 hiring minorities and women.
15 As I mentioned earlier, in Phase One of our sub-16 '
mission to EEOC, we are to select the three most populous 17 professional and three most populous administrative occucation$
t 18 for evaluation.
Based on our review, we have identified
,1 19 nuclear engineering, which is 00840, health physics, which is i
20 01306, and general attorney as the three most professional 21 occupations.
l 22 General administration, security administration, 23 and program analysis have been identified as the most popu-24 lous administrative occupations.
.Federst Reporters, Inc.
25 Now the next series of charts in your handout on l839 029
10 ab9 1
pages 10 to 15 provides information on representation of 2
minorities and women in these various occupations.
And the 3
charts on pages 16 to 21 provide data on the distribution 4
of minorities and women in these various occupations at the 54 various grade levels.
I 6l Now to use the chart on page 10, which is nuclear 7
engineering, as a basis for explaining how we determine under-8 representation, if you look at women, women represent 1.5 of 9
the NRC work force.
Women represent 34.6 percent of all pro-10 fessionals in the civilian labor force.
You compare those 11 two percentages and you come up with an underrepresentation 12 index that is an indicator as to where you are currently with i
13 respect to -- compared to where you should be.
14 In this case we're at 4 percent of what we 15 should be because under ideal conditio.'s, if women were 34.6 16 percent of all nuclear engineers we would have 276.
17 The next column, the underrepresentation, the UR, 18 gives us a percentage figure as to what percent we need to get 19 to in order to have parity.
20 The next chart shows the number of individuals, 21 women, that we have on board.
22 Now you can see -- the next column, rather.
23 Just briefly flipping through these charts you 24 l can see there are arcas where there is no representation or Federal Reporters, Inc.
25 overrepresentation.
1839 030
11 i
ebl0 1
Our goal setting for the most part will be directed 2
toward those areas where we need only hire one or two indi-1 I
31 viduals to come up to where we should be.
Hiring goals of l
l 4l course will take into consideratic.1 current or projected u
i 5 ll vacancies.
I i
I 6!
Now the way you establish goals is to consider the ;
I 7
number of individuals in the civilian labor force and equate 8l this with the number of vacancies.
So in the case of nuclear 9 ll engineers, if you wanted to establish a goal for women, I
I 10 women represent 34.6 percent of individuals that are nuclear l
11 engineers in the civilian labor force.
12 COMMISSIGNER KENNEDY:
How many?
l l
13 MR. TUCKER:
34.6 professionals in the civilian 14 labor force.
I 15 COMMISSIONER HENDRIE:
And where does that come j
16 from?
I l
17 MR. TUCKER:
Those percentages are established by j
18 EEOC.
This is EEOC information.
And what you're doing for i
19 professional type occupations, you're using all professional l
20 individuals; rather than just specific occupations, just 21 dealing with, say, scientific or technicals, you would look 22 l at all professional individuals.
l I
23 l COMMISSIONER GILINSKY:
Isn't the 34.6 the. number j
1839 031 24 for lawyers?
l s Federal Reporters, Inc.
25 MR. TUCKER:
No, 34.6 is for women.
For lawyers--
12 ebil 1
Well, yes, for lawyers it's 34.6.
Yes.
Well, you're talking 2
about the civilian labor force ?igure, and that's 34.6, so
}
you're using your professional percentage in each case to j
3l 4l compare with what you --
5 COMMISSIONER GILINSKY:
I see.
You're using the 6
34.6 everywhere.
7 MR. TUCKER:
That's right, because women are 34.6 t
8 of all professionals in the civilian labor force.
1 I
9l COMMISSIONER KENNEDY:
Ah.
l l
10 MR. TUCKER:
All professionals.
11 COMMISSIONER KENNEDY:
All professionals.
12 MR. TUCKER:
Yes.
l 13 COMMISSIONER KENNEDY:
They are not 34.6 percent 14 of all nuclear engineers, women?
15 MR. TUCKER:
No.
16 COMMISSIONER KENNEDY:
Okay.
That's what I mis-17 understood.
18 COMMISSIONER GILINSKY:
Let's see.
Does that now 19 become a goal?
l l
20 MR. TUCKER:
No, that helps you in determining what 21 your goal should be, because what you need to do is you have i
22 to gear--
Your staffing should be commensurate with the 23 availability of those individuals in the civilian labor force.
24 So if you were going to set a goal for women, just women in eJederal Reporters, Inc.
25 general, in nuclear engineering, you would have to use that 1839 032-
13 abl2 1
34.6 figure.
l 2 l So that means that 34.6 percent of all of your hires 3-during fiscal '60 would have to be women.
4 COMMISSIONER HENDRIE:
As nuclear engineers?
Sl MR. TUCKER:
That's right.
And if you are hiring--
6 If the vacancy is 10, 34.6 percent of the 10 would have to be l 7
women.
8 COMMISSIONER HENDRIE:
How many women are--
Out 9
of all qualified nuclear engineers, what in fact is the j
i 10 fraction of women?
11 MR. TUCKER:
Maybe 2 or 3 percent; something like i
12 that.
l 13 COMMISSIONER KENNEDY:
How are you going to do it?
14 COMMISSIONER HENDRIE:
You're talking about how 15 are a group of federal agencies going to hire at--
i l
~
I 16 MR TUCKER:
34 percent of your hires would have I
17 to be women nuclear engineers, so if you're only hiring la, 18 34.6 percent of the 10 would have to be women, l
19 Do you follow what I'm saying?
i i
20 COMMISSIONER GILINSKY:
You have to hire four women) 21 or three women, or something like that.
22 MR. TUCKER:
That's right, That would not bring l
23 you up to pari.ty.
That wouldn't bring you up to 276, obe l
l 24 viously.
-Federal Reporters, Inc.
25 COMMISSIONER GILINSKY:
But if you kept dging.th,at i839 033' I
14 abl3 1
for a long time--
2 MR. TUCKER:
That's where you get into your multi-3 year planning.
4 COMMISSIONER KENNEDY:
But then I think you get to 5
the problem that I think Mr. Hendrie was pointing to.
You l
l 6 I are finally going to--
You're getting this group of federal 7
agencies into a market where it has to sop the entire market l
8 up and even then probably can't nake it, 9
MR. TUCKER:
Well, the thing is you have to set i
10 realistic goals.
If you know yoe can't make it then you don't 11 establish a goal for all women.
You have to be very specific 12 in setting your goals.
l l
13 For instance you can see, say in nuclear engineer-14 ing, that Native Americans make up a tenth of a percent in 15 the civilian labor force.
We don't have any Native Americans.
16 We only need to hire one to get to where we should be, 17 Or, say, in the case of Hispanics, we would only 18 need to hire seven to get to the,9 percent, 19 COMMISSIONER GILINSKY: But every agency would have i
20 to hire one to get to where they should be, i
i 21 MR. TUCKER:
That's true.
I 22 COMMISSIONER GILINSKY:
And you woulo need that one j 23 multiplied by the number of agencies.
}4 24 MR. TUCKER:
This is true, Jederal Recomrs, Inc.
25 COMMISSIONER KENNEDY:
But if welra talking about I
15 ebl4 I
all women, we would have to hire 264.
2 MR. TUCKER:
If you were going to try to get up to 3
where you should be at one time, but that's not realistic, I
4 to set a goal for hiring that number of women.
So what you i
l l
5 would do, you would beccze very specific and say we are going 3,
l
'6 l to target the goal to Hispanic women or Native American women.l i
I 7 !
Because you know you can't get there but you're just trying l
8!
to establish a goal for all women.
l 9'
And then the degree of underrepresentation is more l 10 '
severe, say, with minority women than for white wcmen.
II MR. GOSSICK:
That implies a change from the l
l guidance we've had in the past.
Generallythechargehasbeenf 12 13 to go out and hire more women and more minorities, without any' Id attention as to the kinds of skills or the grade level.
15 I
COMMISSIONER GILINSKY:
I'm must say I'm not sure 16 this is rational.
l I7 COMMISSIONER HENDRIE:
I don't understand how you l
18 can set reasonably goals for hiring oneethird of all new
{
I9 I hires in nuclear engineering have to be female, when you're i
20 working against a labor market at a couple of percent female. l i
21 Now either we then declare that we aren't going to l 22 fill our vacancies, which means that we cannot do the tasks 23 that we have accepted and agreed to do, or we have to reach 24 the goals.
}b'39 035 Federal Reoctters, Inc.
25 MR. GOSSIFR:
If the applicants aren't there, I
16 l
abl5 1
Mr. Hendrie, you know, we have to go ahead and fill them.
I l
i 2
don't 'hink anybody is saying that you just keep the spaces j
t i
3 open.
But what they are saying is if you can find qualified, i
4!
you know, candidates for these jobs, that would be what we i
i i
Si would try to do to get parity, l
e 6l But I don't think anybody is suggesting that--
l l
t 7
COMMISSIONER GILINSKY:
Isn't there a job that--
8 In effect, aren't you guaranteeing to persons in those cate-9l gories that they will get hired because the agency has to meet i
10 its goals?
11 MR. GOSSICK:
Not if they're not qualified.
l l
12 COMMISSIONER GILINSKY:
You know, taking people in l
13 some comparably qualified--
14 MR, TUCKER:
That's the reason you look at your i
i 15 barriers.
You look at your recruitment barriers and you look !
l 16 at barriers in the selection process, and in reviewing and in 17 doing an analysis of your resources, if you make a determina- [
18 tion that you can't get there, then you don't establish a 19 goal.
20 It's the same thing as with respect to your selec-21 tion process.
You know that certain factors are selecting 22 people out, like the grade point average.
For our technical 23 type people we normally try to hire people with B averages or 24 better.
839 036 e Federal Repomn, lm.
3 l
25 What you have to look at is whether or not that is i I
17 ebl6 1
valid, you know, a valid criteria.
Is it really necessary to 2
have a B average to do the work that's required?
I I
3:
Say in the legal area, we simply look at the writing 4
ability of candidates for the honor law program, and you would 5
question whether or not you really need to have that kind of l
i 6
requirement as a condition for employment, recognizing that a 7
lot of these skills can be picked up on the job, 8
But that's the whole purpose of the analysis, the 9
barrier _ analysis, looking at availability and establishing 10 the goals.
If there are impediments to hiring and you can't 11 achieve the goal, then you don't set the goal, But there has 12 got to be some basis and that's the reason for putting all 13 this, to get this information together for submission so that 14 the EEOC can see what the basis is for establishing or not 15 establishing a goal.
16 COMMISSIONER GILINSKY:
I think it's a matter of 17 degree, but I think nuclear engineering provides a particu-18 larly extreme example where--
19 h?. TUCKER:
Well, it is an extreme example be-20 cause you're talking about hiring some 260-odd women in order 21 to get up to parity, so you don. rec.ly focus on that so much I
22 as you would focus on Native Americans where you would only l
i 23 need to hire one.
Tometherewouldbenoreasonwhywecouldl 24 not recruit, you know, one Native American.
l
. Faferal Recturs, f M.
25 But the thing to recognize, too, is that these are !
~
l839~037
18 ed7 1
transition year activities, and once you get into multi-year 2
p mning in affirmative action, you're going to have to ad-3!
dress all undcrrepte 2ntation.
So the first thing to do l
4 during L.a
- ansition year is to get yourself started and l
5l uhan in tae moda to try to come to grips with the under-i 6
representation in certain occupations and with certain classes 7
of minorities and women, to prepare youself for the multi-8 year planning and try to develop a strategy to deal with the l
9 underrepresentation.
10 The whole poird. is that for years now, we 've never 11 had any real rational standard basis for establishing goals, 12 It has been basically guesstimates on the part of all agen-13 l cies and as a result of the Bakke decision when the Court 14 focused in on goal-setting it indicated that it should be 15 determined by the appropriate administrative body.
Now we 16 have a standardized system for establishing goals, for hiring 17 '
minorities, ad c1 18 19 20 !
'1839 038 l
21 22 23 24 e-Federal Reporters, !nc.
25 i
19 I
agbl The last couple of pages at the end of your handout 2
provide general information of the outline we have used to 3l implement the Fede.ral Equal Opportunity Recruitment Program.
I 4 j Now this recruitment program, as I said before, 5
is going to have to take into consideration what the yield j
l 6
has been in previous years, and naturally gear the recruitment
. 240 7
program to the goals that have been established.
8 COMMISSIONER KENNEDY:
When you say gear it to the I
9 goals that have been established, that means focus effort l
10 in those particular directions and presumably thereby I would II think, at least in some measure, at the expense of that burden I2 in the more traditional directions.
13 To the extent that that is true, and to the extent Id that we have a major recruitment problem at the moment, just 15 in sheer numbers of vacancies and urgency ~ini _ filling them, 16 what's the likely result of this against that situation?
I i
17 l
MR. TUCKER:
It's kind of difficult to say, of 18 course.
You wouldn't set the goal without first analyzing I9 the recrnitment sources and the recruitment barriers.
20 And if you decide that you want to establish a 21 goal, say, for Native American nuclear engineers and you 22 would have to hire, say, four people, and if you look at the 23 history of your recruiting in that area, you find that you 24 haven't been able to identify adequate nr.nbers of Native
. Federal Reporters, trc 25 Americans and you probably wouldn't establish a goal for 1839 039' i
20 I
e '2 Native Americans, i
i l
2l So there's got to be a realistic type of goal l
l 3l setting taking into account what you can reasonably do based l
i I
4l on the recruitment sources.
l 5
t COMMISSIONER KENNEDY:
Okay.
6l MR. TUCKER:
With the exception of staffing, that'sl t
l just about all that I have.
I 8
To bring you up to date, we're in the process now l
9 of possibly making a selection for the EEO Specialist 10 positio.h; that has been advertised.
We have also advertised 11 for the P.ogram Analyst.
12 We have taken some applications from internal 13 candidates.
There is some question as to whether or not they Id are fully qualified, and we therefore have gone -- we have 15 advertised in the Washington Post for this position..Hopefull 16 by the end of this month we'11 be able to cut it off and make I
17 some determination ~t least by the middle of February with a
i 18 respect to the Program Analyst position.
i MR. GOSSICK:
Would you say a word aboutzthe agreemen 20 with EEOC and your views on how that arrangement is working 21 1839 040 22 MR. TUCKER:
We've been very pleased Qith the l
23 results of our agreement with EEOC.
We have forwarded, 24 I believe, about seven complaints to the EEOC.
Two of them Federal Reporters, Inc.
25 have been adjusted; one has been withdrawn, I believe, and we i
B
21 a~b3 I
have gotten a final recommended decision from the EEOC on one 2
other complaint.
3 I think the essential element of the agreement 4i and the way that they conduct business is the credibility Si of the EEOC, which has gone a long way in helping us to i
a i
61 adjudicate.
7 COMMISSIONER GILINSKY:
Could you just say a little 8
more about the process that goes on between you and the 9
commission -- the other commission, in discussing these goals?
10 You know, you say you have to be realistic and set realistic Il goals and so on.
12 MR. TUCKER:
Well, the material:I've shown you is 13 t ckground material that will be sent to the EEOC.
We -- and I4 when I say we, I mean Personnel and other parts of the 15 organization -- in consultation with the EEO and possibly with 16 the Commission, also we'll develop a strategy.
We'll determine 17
-- we'll make some kind of determination as to what we think 18 the goal should be and try to reach some kind of an agreement, 19 taking into account the various exigencies t1 might be present.
20 But this will be done in consultation with Personnel
(
21 and other parts of management in establishing those goals. But i,
l 22 we will have to use that civilian labor force information in 23 determining what the goals should be, or the numbers of people 24 that should be hired.
IB39 041
.w.o.r.: aeoarters, Inc.
25 COMMISSIONER GILINSKY:
Supposing you just can't t
22 1
i meet those numbers?
Suppose you just don't have the applicants?
~
l 2 1 i
Suppose after you've looked you don't have the applicants. --
l 3
in a specific category?
4 MR. TUCKER:
Well, you have to go to another 5l I
category.
61 EEOC requires us to set goals for two of the most 7
populous occupations.
Now that is basically geared toward large agencies with large numbers of people in various l
9 occupational groups.
l 10 Now since we're so sma]l, we have so few people 11 in the various occupations that we've identified -- even the 12 20 most populous -- what we propose to do is to select various 13 grade levels and various minority groups for the goal setting.
14 As I said before, like Native Americans, we only need to hire one or two.
Or, say, with Hispanic Women, we 16 would only hire -- have to hire a small number in order to l
17 l
achieve the goal.
So that'll be taken into consideration I
18 i
basically in trying to establish the goals.
l 19 l COMMISSIONER GILINSKY:
How do the goals actually 1
0 come into play in the hiring process?
Presumably the various l 21 l
managers are out looking for people to fill their offices, j
22 and clearly they're under instructions to hire in a way that 1
23 i
is fair and just and so on.
But where does someone step in j
24 and say Wait a minute, we're not meeting that goal or that esecerst neporters, Inc.
25 I839 042
23 1
75 MR. TUCKER:
Well the way the system is set up:
b 2
with the hires during Fiscal
'80, Mr. Gossick has established l
3 a procedure of periodically looking at the progress, like, 4
l l
I&E and NRR making with respect to hiring minorities and I
i 5
women; at the same time, looking at what Personnel is doing 6
to increase the applicant pool.
7 The applicant pool, of course, is the determining 8
factor.
If we are going to expect I&E, for~ instance, to hire 9
four Black engineers or four female engineers, than certainly 10 we've got to significantly increase the app 3icant pool to make 11 it more possible for them to accomplish this.
12 MR. GOSSICK:
We review that on a regular bas!,s.
13 And also the Commission, I think, a year ago, or whenever it wa's 14 l
they looked at the initiatives that Ed had laid out, authorized 15 us to withdraw the hiring authority of anyone we saw who was 16 really not, you know, trying to do their share in the affirma-l 17 tive action area.
18 So far that has not been necessary.
People have 19 sincerely tried -- and generally, as you saw,.
the overall 20 statistics, this year they looked quite good.
They has improve ld 21 I
over last year.
22 COMMISSIONER GILISKY:
So it comes about through 23 the monitoring of the progress of the offices or the performance 24
.,e,e nnomn,,,,
of the offices, rather than any specific hiring decision?
25 MR. GOSSICK:
That'.s. correct.
1839 043-I
24 36 MR. TUCKER:
And as far as goal setting for this 2
year and for the ccming years, I don't think it is going to j
be feasible to sit down and negotiate such with the offices I'
4 what their geals should be.
I think that certainly management I
Si i
has got to make some determination as to what they think is 6
l reasonable based on the projected vacancies and based on i
l what Personnel feels that they can do in terms of the applicant 8
pool and'just assign that goal, that numerical goal to the i
1 9i i
office.
i j
10 Like go to I&E and say Your goal is four women 11 at the GS-ll level for nuclear engineers because that's, I
you know, where there is underrepresentation and that's where 13 we feel you can make some progress.
14 i
Now when you do your evaluation, your accomplishment 15 report for Fiscal
'81, you will identify problem areas and 16 give some indication, if you didn't achieve your goal, why l
l 17 you didn't achieve a goal.
Was it because the applicant pool 18 remained small, or there was no significant increase?
Or was 19 l it reluctance on the part of the hiring officials to hire 20 qualified individuals?
So we have really got to,at this point. during 22 i
this fiscal year, to set up some system for keeping track l
23 of the number of minorities and women that are applying for j
24 jobs in the agency in the various categories.
90-F900fal MtpJrwin, set 25 COMISSIONER GILINSKY:
Okay.
I should have said
25 I
it at the outset that John Ahearne was sick today and that's why I'm chairing the meeting.
He attaches very great importance l
to meeting our goals here and performing well on equal opportunity matters, and I'm sure would have wanted to be here i
5f had he been able to.
l 6
MR. GOSSICK:
I would certainly urge that the 7
Commissioners continue, as I know they will, their support 8
and emphasis on the program, because we are under a somewhat 9
new set of rules now with EEOC and this new guidance that 10 Ed has described to you. And we'll be getting the plan over 11 to them, as Ed said, probably in February.
12 COMMISSIONER GILINSKY:
Okay.
Thank you very 13 much.
l 14 (Whereupon, at 3:07 p.m.,
the meeting 15 was adjourned.)
16 !
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1839 045 i
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.. Federal Reporters, Inc.
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