ML19253B629
| ML19253B629 | |
| Person / Time | |
|---|---|
| Issue date: | 10/04/1979 |
| From: | Hendrie J NRC COMMISSION (OCM) |
| To: | |
| Shared Package | |
| ML19253B630 | List: |
| References | |
| REF-10CFR9.7 SECY-79-479, NUDOCS 7910160551 | |
| Download: ML19253B629 (17) | |
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1 UNITED STATES OF AMERICA 2
NUCLEAR REGULATORY COMMISSION 3
4 PUBLIC MEETING 5
l DISCUSSION / AFFIRMATION SESSION 79-29 i
6 7
8 Room 1130 9
1717 H Street, N.W.
Washington, D.
C.
I 10
[
Thursday, 4 October 1979 l
11 j
The Commission met, pursuant to notice, at 2:05 p.m.
l 12 BEFORE:
t 13 DR. JOSEPH M.
HENFRIE, Chairman 14 l
VICTOR GILINSKY, Commissioner 15 RICHARD T.
KENNEDY, Commissioner 16
[
PETER A.
BRADFORD, Commissioner 17 '
JOHN F. AHEARNE, Commissioner 18/
j PRESENT:
19 '
Messrs. Bickwit, Gossick, and Thompson.
i 20 ]
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AFTERNDON SE55!0N 2
(2:05 p.m.)
3 CHAIRMAN HENDRIE:
Let's turn to the discussion.
4 I hope this can be crief and oring us to a vote on the Paper 5
79-479.
6 COMMISSIONER KENNEDY:
My vote agrees.
I CHAIRMAN HENDRIE:
Would someone please outline S79-479?
Would they outline it for us ?
9 This is a discussion item which I would hope would 10 leao to a vote.
11 MR. H0YLE:
SECY-79-479 re commends that the 12 Commission issue changes to its rules, Part 71, as an 13 e ff ec tive rule to ce e ff ective 30 days af ter publication, 14 requiring snipment of radioac tive mat erials c, NRC licensees 15 to oe in accordance with DOT regulation.
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Ine reason for the immediate ef f ec tivene ss is that 17 the s ta ff celieve s tna t there is an i mmediat e need to 15 increase the level of its inspection and enforcement li activities in this area.
2:
Tne paper explains that the paper would NRC 21 inspection now on snipments in addition to the Department of 22 Trensportation inspections.
I understand tna t 2ommi ss.' Sner 22 Ke nne dy would like to discuss aspects of this matter, 22 par;icularly relateo to resources.
23 COMMISSIONER KENNEDY:
I think eve rybody is in oggo BNS#
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receipt of a copy of my me morandum of August 22, referring
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2 to the approximately 10 man years of effort that would be 3
required to undertake what was referred to as a modest level 4
of tne progre.m and would not incluoe those ac tivities witnin 5
the agreement states.
6 I also noted that I saw no evidence that the staff e
had those 10 man years available to i t wi thout reprogramming 8
f rom other activities, and I asked some questions aoout 9
that.
10 I want to simply for the record note that in our 11 Septemoer 11 -- a n d I celieve everycody has a copy of this 12 memorandum.
I received a response from the Director of the 13 O ffice of Inspection and Enforcement in which he said, "We 14 do no t pre se ntly have the resources to devote to this 15 specific eff ort, nor was the research requirement adequately 16 adcre ssed in the I&E budgot request f o r ' 81 ' 83.
1/
I want it very clear that those resources are 13 therefore going to nave to come f rot. somewhere else.
I id oelieve it is incumoent upon the Commission in such matters 23 to make the decision as to whether the resources be diverted 21 f rom other purposes to nese purposes.
22 I would appreciate it if I&E could descrice to us 23 what those other -- the source of tnose resources would ce.
24 CH A I R!..nN H ENDR I E :
Do you want to come up, Dudley?
23 Let me ask oy the way, as you start on that discussion, l1 2:
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I dealt in the last day with a paper on the subject of some 2
of these inspections that details the staff resource 3
requirements at various levels of inspection activities in 4
this area.
There was a recommendation in
- hat paper, as I 5
recall it, f or Al ternative 2(C), and the proposal was to add 5
whate ver the Commission approved, an increment to go cack in
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and a dd those things to the budget which has gone forward.
3 Now am i talking aoout the right things?
CO MVISSIONER AHEARNE:
Talking aoout 515?
10 MR. THOM?$0N:
Yes, you are speaking on the right 11 tnings on the basis of our, manpower recuirement to meet the 12 neeos of the Part 71 amendment and tne attention devoted to 13 transportation has resulted in co'rresponcence from the three la governors involved..
That is set f orth in 515.
That 15 outlines for your consiceration the casis on which we 15 reached the 11 man resource requirement and notes that in 1.
the aosence of those resources being supplied, we do inte nd 13 to Jivert radiation inspection coverage at reac;or materials 19 licensees sufficient for an interim coverage of the 20 transportation proc em until sucn time as resources coulo os 21 mace availacle.
22 The recommendation is the least de mar. ding i n te rms 23 of resources of the six alternatives proposed.
24 COMMISSIONER KENNEDY:
Again, for the re c o rd, what 25 is precisely the e ff e ct of the radiation protection program w
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of the diversion of this numoer of individuals from the 2
reactor side and from the materials side.
3 MR. THOMPSON:
The effecc on the reactor side will 4
be a reduction of aoout 55 on-site cays per year or the 5
equiv alen t o f 10 to 15 inspec tions pe r year across the 5
reactor program and about 50 on-site days in fuel f acilities 7
f or the on-site time f or a bout 10 to 12 inspections across 3
thac program end about 400 --
/
COMMISSIONER KENNEDY:
As a percentage of what?
13 MR. THOMPSON:
Roughly, a 10 percent reduction 11 across :>ath programs, and roughly aoout 450 to 600 12 inspections of materials licensees throughout a year, wnich 13 sounds very large on the surf ace, out most of these la inspections are on lower priority lic ensees.
13 Ca'4MI SSIONER KENNEDY:
Lowe r priority, meaning 15 whac?
Ie MR. TH3MP50N:
In terms of the frequency of 13 inspections that are scheduled in tne pre program 19 inspections.
23 CO MMI SS IONER KENNEDY:
Yesterday, we had some 21 discussion of the health and physics problems at a
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particular reactor and the need to enhance our e fforts in 23 chis regarc.
At whatever number of reactors involvec here,
24 we are going to decrease our e ffort.
23 Is the s'taff's wisdom here that that is a proper O
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distribution of resources?
2 MR. THOMPSON:
Given the circumstances --
3 COMMISSIONER KENNEDY:
dait.
What circumstances?
4 MR. THOMPSON:
The increased need for inspection 5
activities on transportation e ff orts.
It is a question of 6
the a ssignment of priorities within the given re sourc es that 7
we have available.
I am very hesitant to endorse a position 3
that says, "Ne are happy to reduce he alth pnysics 9
ins?s ctions at reactors or f uel f acilities.u IJ COMMISSIONER KENNEDY:
We can accomplish the new 11 additional program only at that expense?
12 VR. THOMPSON:
Correct.
13 CHAIRMAN HENDRIE:
Or at le ast with sor' of two 14 caveats.
The first is, I look forward to an affirmative la vote f rom the Commiscioners on increasing tne budget request 13 to cover this f act, so that there is a time during which 14 this pinch would be the case.
13 COMMISSIONER KENNEDY:
What is the duration of 1) that time?
23 MR. GOSS:0K:
Let me speak to that.
We would 21 attempt to get this in our '30 supplement.
It is currently 22 with OMS.
They have been alertec that there is this 23 proolem, that we will be to them with the Commission's 24 decision with regard to the level of resources to os sought, 23 so it is wnenever tnose resources would cecome available --
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cer:ainly not until calendar '80 at cest.
CO MMI SSIONER AHEARN E:
Do we have any sense of 2
3 when C13 is (inaudiole)?
4 MR. GOSSICK:
It is our understanding they are 5
trying to expedite the processing of our supplemental to 6
break it loose to get.over with the first supple menta l
/
before the end of the year?
S CHAIRMAN HENDRIE:
The second one, and it is not 9
quite a caveat -- to what extent is that possiole, to get 10 some resource assistance from contractors in this area?
11 MR. THOMPSON:
It is possiole, M r.
Chairman, to 12 get some contract help in this area.
And as a matter of 13 fact, the Director of tne office has instru;teo the staff to 14 l ook into tais area.
la CHAIRMAN HENDRIE:
I recognize the nature of the lo circumscences such that you can't all fully cover the area 1,
wita contrac tor assistanc e.
It, for certain aspects, is not 13 appropriate and so on.
To the extent tnat you get -- when I li talk aoout contrac tor assistance, it can cover several areas 23 here, not just the transportation area.
2!
CO T4ISSIO.lER AMEARNE:
My cuestion really is, can 24 we take enforcement action cased upon recent results of tne 23 contr actor's review?
24 OHAIRMAN HENDRIE:
I don't see why not.
you know, if a contractor came 23
?resumacly, if a contract f
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cack and said, " Gee, we think this licensee is not 2
conforming" or something, why then it would follow with an 3
NRC check on it.
4 At any rate, all I suggest is there may De some, 5
although clearly not total, alleviation of the resource 6
squ9e ZO.
7 MR. THOMPSON:
We are examining tne extent '.o R
which we can get some relief for this.
9 CHAIRMAN HENDRIE:
I am sorry I kept holding you 10 up.
Vic?
11 COMMISSIONER GILINSKY:
When you spoke of a 12 recuc tion of 10 percent in our inspec tion ef f orts on 13 reactors and fuel cycle, did you mean tha t the entire 14 reactor inspectica e f f ort is reducea?
15 MR. THOM? SON:
No, I did not.
That is 10 percent 16 of the manpower devoted to the radiation protection aspect il of those programs.
It is tne radiation protection 13 specialist who woula ce doing both types of inspections --
la the operation type of inspections.
The construction type is 23 not a ff ec ted by this.
2i COMMISSIONER GILI.4 SKY:
And 10 indivicuals 22 repre sents whet fraction of your actual inspection f orce ?
23 MR. THOMPSON:
Abo u t twc percent.
A little le ss 24 than two percent.
25 COMMISSIONER KENNE0Y:
What does the entire g
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radiation protection inspection force represent as a 2
perce ntage of the total inspection force?
3 MR. THOMp5ONs A little less than a fifth.
It has 4
to ce right around 18 or 19 percent.
5 (Commissioner Bradford lef t tne rooin a t 2: 15 p.m. )
5 CHAIRMAN HENDRIE:
It is something like 90-odd e
folk in the area.
S VR. THOV? SON:
Including the supervisory 9
overhead.
In terms of inspectors, I believe it is on the 10 order of 60 to 65.
I could ge t that figure more accurately, il CHAIRMAN HENDRIE:
Since we work the supervisors, 12 it is 10 percent or so of tnat force.
13 COMMISS IONER KENNEDY:
Do I understand that you 14 nave already implemented this proposi tion ?
la MR. THOM?5ON:
We are performing inspection of 1;
transportation efforts on an interim basis with diverted 1/
manpower from other programs.
15 COMMISSIONER KENNEDYi In other words, we may be 11 here cis:ussing an academic proposi" ion.
Is that the way I 23 understand that?
21 MR. THJM? SON:
I would hate to characterice it 22 that way, Co mmissione r.
It is clear on the oasis of the 23 perceived ne ed over the last six weaks or so that increased 24 e f f or t was nece ssary in this area, and we have been doing 25 it.
The impact in that short time period has not oeen
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substantial.
However, if it goes on for much longer, the
~2 diverted manpower will have a much more significant e ff ec t.
3 COMMISSIONER AMEARNE:
There is a different 4
issue.
One of the things we are discussing -- eventually 5
will get to the point -- the amendmen t o f -- that will 6
enaole us to inspect against DOT.
7 MR. THOMPSON:
We are not doing tnat.
I am sorry 3
if I provided misleading inf ormation.
I am speaking in terms of the augmented inspection e f f orrts f or 10 transportation in general, not the DOT extension SECY paper 11 you discussed.
12 COMMISSIONER KENNEDY:
So we have already diverted 13 manpower?
14 MR. THOMPSON:
Yes.
15 CO MVI SSIONER KENNEDY:
What is the extent of that 16 diversion?
That is in addition, is that correct?
That is Is in acdition to the 10 percent we are talking a bo ut ?
15 MR. THOM? SON:
That would oe pa rt of the 10 19 percent in S ECY 79-515, and that 10 percent, of course -- 10 20 percent is six wee ks' to tal e f f o r t -- is still 10 percent, 21 out it is not the 50 to 55 T.an-days set forth in the SECY 22 paper which is an annual figure.
23 is are tal.<ing a oou t five, six man-days of e ffort 24 diverted so f ar in this six week period.
26 CO MMISSIONER GILINSKY:
So in c arrying out this i.::
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progr am, we are fulfilling the promise that we made to the 2
three gove rnors ?
3 MR. THOM?50N:
That is correct.
4 CHAIRMAN HENDRIE:
Judged oy the morning news, we 5
will need a little more.
5 COMMISSIONER KENNEDY:
The staf f did conclude when it made this proposal for handling the problem without e
3 re sources that it should not be allowed to continue f or more 9
than a few months.
Isn't that correct?
10 MR. THOMPSON:
That is correct.
11 CO MM ISS ION ER KENNEDY In the event that we do not 12 have the relatively quick success in terms of a 13 supplemental, that would suggest what then?
14 MR. G05 SICK:
The Commission has to decide if it 15 can continue the commitment or to reallocate resources from 15 some other source.
It can't be done by magic.
It has to 17 hava en allocation of resources somehow.
13 CO MMIS5 IONER KENNEDY:
Let me s ay, as I have i/
al r e a dy indicated on Septemoer 25, I inoicated my agreement 2J to tais pro.aosition, however reluctan tly, no t on the grounds 21 that the joo didn't need to be done out on the grounds tnat 22 it is hard to do jo os if you don't have resources to do 23 them.
And meyce this is one of the most dramatic examoles 24 of anat has oecome increasingly, I t h i n'<, ai attitude o;. tne 23 96rt of the Commission, which is the will/-nilly commitme nt O
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to accor.. 'sn things with no idea of where the resources are 2
going to come from oefore the commitment is madt.
3 I think that is bad management, and it ought to 4
stop.
5 CO MMISS IONER GILINSKY:
I thought there wa s 6
unanimous agreeraent on the order we sent to the governors.
/
COMMISSIONER KENNEDY:
With a note aoout S
resources.
9 CHAIRMAN HENDRIE:
Lee, whe n -- we have alerted 10 the budget change.
Then we are going to have to come a long 11 with a small addition.
You are going to try to get that on 12 the '80 supplement?
13 MR. GOSSICK:
I don't think we have your cecision 14
/et as to tne level.
de gave several options in the paper, 15 515, I ihin't, and we are awaiting Commi sion decision --
16 whether ths, agree with the minimum level that we recommenc ed is the num' er, and I don' t oelieve we have in o
15 that.
Do we, Dudley?
14 MR. THOMPSON:
We do not have that.
No, sir.
20 MR. H0YLE:
de are still wai'ing.
21 CHAIRMA3 HENDRIE:
I voted witn John, so there are 22 three.
It would also oe possiole for us to go ahead ano act 23 on th6t matter here as part of this run, if you would like.
24 I do f eel a strong need f or us to ge t on with the amendment 25 to Part 71.
The difficulties with waste shipments to 6
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Hanford that occurred last night and the result of this 2
morning and the closing of the site there are, in fact, 3
related to shipments being made under DOT re gulations,
4 rather than NRC.
5 (Commissioner Bradf ord returned to the room at 5
2:22 p.m.)
/
Our ability to take some actions then is contigent 8
on the Part 71 change.
riha t I woulc recomme nd to you, it 9
you would consider it, is our approval of the anendments to 10 Part 71 as laid out in the SECY paper.
And in order simply 11 to put the resource matter in high gear, I would also
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12 rec om me nd to you that we approve the resource addition o
y 13 reque st to the '50 supplement budget that has already gone 14 forward.
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John, you said the recommendation f rom I&E was 11 2
positions.
You said eight ought to do it, trimming some of 3
the lower priority transportation matters.
I was willing to 4
go with that.
I am also willing to cack to 10 or 11 if that 5
would aid the agreement here.
6 CO MMI SSION ER ENNEDY:
I am prepared to agree with a
11.
3 CHAIRMAN HENDRIE:
Go with the I&E recommendation y
a s ma de.
13 COMMISS IONER GILINSKY:
I think we will need them.
11 CHAIRMAN HENDRIE:
Peter?
12 COMMISSIONER BRADFORD:
That's all right.
13 CHAIRMAN HENDRIE:
Are you ready to be outvoted?
14 CO M'4ISSIONER AHEARNE:
Always.
13 C?AlRMAN HENDRIE:
The proposition that I make to 15 you is tnat we approve the amendments as set out in the S ECf Ie pacer Part ti and tnat we approve tne sta ff's recommendation H
for il positions and the appropriate funds to pey them to be 19 f orwarded promptly to OMS for the fiscal '33 supplementary 23 request of the commission.
Those in favor?
21 (Caorus of ayes.)
22 CaMMISSI0 DER AHEARNE:
I vote "Yes" on the first 23 and "No" on the second.
24 CHAIRMAN HENDRIE:
We record Ahearne as voting 25 that eignt would have done the Joo, on the people.
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COMVISSIONER KENNEDY:
Can we c l ar i f y no w, be 2
aosolutely certain we are not talking aceut a supplemental 3
to attach the '81 request s we are talking aoout a 4
supplement to '80.
MR. GOS$1CK:
Yes.
5 COMMISSIONER KENNEDY:
Let's ce sure what we are 7
talki ng a oout.
The staff said, and they jus t reiterated, 3
this should not obtain for more -- the situation should not
/
ootain for more than a f ew montns.
I want to be certain we 10 are talking about an eddition to the s"pplement for '80 as 11 well as '81.
12 MR. GOSSICK:
There will oc a request for '80 and 13
'81.
14 CHAIRMAN HENDRIE:
It will be supplemental '30, 13 and that delta will ce added to the
'81..
Otherwise, you 15 come right oack down, which doesn't achieve th$ 6b jec tive.
I/
CO MMISS ION ER KENNEDY:
That is corrett.
13 Md. GOSSICK:
There is 5100,000 of program I?
support.
20 CHAIRMAN HENDRIE:
Yes.
21 Judley, I think you and Sill got out with a full 22 set of cnips this time.
Normally, we don't let you away 23 from the taole with all of tnem.
24 MR. THOMP50N:
I nave full confidence tnat that 25 will not prevail in suosequent sessions.
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CHAIRMAN HENDRIE:
I just want you to be aware 2
that it may come back one way or the other.
3 Inank you very much.
4 (Whereupon, at 2:26 p.m.,
the meeting was 5
a djou rned. )
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