ML19249B089
| ML19249B089 | |
| Person / Time | |
|---|---|
| Site: | Crane  |
| Issue date: | 07/02/1979 |
| From: | Donaldson D, Marsh R NRC OFFICE OF INSPECTION & ENFORCEMENT (IE REGION I), NRC OFFICE OF INSPECTION & ENFORCEMENT (IE REGION III) |
| To: | |
| References | |
| NUDOCS 7908290633 | |
| Download: ML19249B089 (37) | |
Text
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l UNITED STATES OF AMERICA NUCLEAR REGULATORY COMMISSION 1,
In the Matter of:
2!
IE TMI INVESTIGATION INTERVIEW l
3 of 4
Sargeant S. R. Finicle Site Protection Sargeant Si l
6' l
8I Trailer #203 9
NRC Investigation Site TMI Nuclear Power Plant 10 Middletown, Pennsylvania lli May 1, 1979 12 (Date of Interview) 13 July 2, 1979 14!
(Date Transcript Typed) 89 15 (Tape Numoer(s))
16l 17!
18 19' 20 21{
NRC PERSONNEL:
'22l Robert Marsh I
Dale E. Donaldson b
94 j
24 25l l
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1 MARSH: The date is May 1st, the time is 10:39 p.m.
I am Robert Marsh I
2' and I'm an investigator with the U.S. Nuclear Regulatory Commissfon 3
and I'm assigned to the Chicago office - that's Region III.
This 4
evening we're located at Three Mile Island.
The purpose for getting 5
together is to conduct an interview of Sgt. S.R. Finicle, and just so 6
we have the record straight, we have one other NRC representative in 7
the room and I'll ask you, Dale, to identify yourself at this time, and spell your last name and give your position with the NRC.
g 9
DONALDSON:
My name is Dale E. Donaldson.
I'm a Radiation Specialist 10!
with Region I, NRC.
g 12 MARSH:
Ok, Sgt. if you, if that's OK to address you by, unless you've 14{;
got a preference.
Before we turned the tape on, we did talk for a minute or two, and I want to put one or two things on the record.
One thing we discussed before we turned the tape on, was this two page 16l memo that I gave you a copy of to read and to sign.
This discusses the purpose of the investigation and it lays down some of the ground 18l rules, and on the second page there are included three questions at 19l the end, and I'd like to repeat those questions now.
You have indicated I
20!
your responses in writing but I'd also like to take and put them 21 verbally on the tape.
First question reads 'Do you understand the 22 above?', addressing the content of the two page memo.
23 24 bN 25 l
2 1
FINICLE:
Yes, I do.
2 3
MARSH:
Second is, 'Do we have your permission to tape this interview?'
4 5
FINICLE:
Yes, you do.
6 7
MARSH:
And, finally, 'Do you want a copy of the tape?'
8 FINICLE:
Yes, I do.
g I
10 MARSH:
Fine.
I will provide you with a copy of the tape at the g
conclusion of this interview and then furthermore, as soon as it is y
transcribed, we are running a 'little bit of a backlog, but as soon at it is transcribed we will also provide you with a copy of the written l
transcript of the tape.
There is a fourth question which does not 15 ap ar here but is covered in the body of the letter and that is 6,
addressing your rights that, if you so desire, you can have a repre-sentative for the company here, or from the Union, if you so desire.
19 FINICLE:
No.
20 21 MARSH:
O k.
You indicate that you do not.
Let me just further indicate 22 that if at any time you feel that you do want someone present, just make it known and we'll take a break and we'll get someone in here.
24 OK, to start off with, as we have inicated, I'm Bob Marsh, this is 25j 894 105
3 1
Dale Donaldson.
To maybe give the record and possibly some of the 2
people that may be listening or have access to this transcript later 31 on, some background, could you go over, briefly, your history, your l
4l employment history and education, and specifically your history here 5
with TMI.
6 FINICLE:
OK.
I was a graduate from Susquehannah High School on the 7
academic level.
I then proceeded to Harrisburg Area Community Junior 8
gl College, located in Harrisburg, Pennsylvania, where I received my 1
Associates Degree in Police Science Administration.
I worked for 2 10 years at Polyphonic ((phoenetic) Hospital as a security officer there, 3
f also working part-time at Merrifield Police Department.
In 1976, I then transferred and started full time employment with the South g
Londonderry Township Police Departmen, located in Lebanon County, Pennsylvania, and which I was there 2 years.
I spent 12 weeks of 15 i
Basic Training at the State Police Academy in Hershey, Pennsylvania, 16!
training in police laws and evidence.
March of the following year, I 17!
also was at the State Police Academy, located in Hershey, Pennsyl-18{
l vania, for a week of narcotics investigation.
After this, I then 19!
i received employment by Metropolitan-Edison Company, at Three Mile 20l Island, as a Site Protection Officer, and at a later time was promoted 21f to Site Protection Sargeant.
23 MARSH:
Dale, I'll let you pick up from there.
24 25 89#4 lob i
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1 DONALDSON:
The timeframe that we're interested in, primarily, is the 2!
period from 0400 on March 28th through midnight on March 30th. What I 3
would like to do, I think the easiest way for us to proceed is to 4
allow you to sort of go through what happened from your viewpoint.
5 6
FINICLE:
O k.
On that evening, I was working the midnight to 8:00 7
shift, that would be the 28th of March, 1979.
The foll' wing log 8
readings was logged in our console log, located within the vitai area g
of TMI, and they read as such:
0500 hour0.00579 days <br />0.139 hours <br />8.267196e-4 weeks <br />1.9025e-4 months <br />s-radios from the time affice 10, and the door 16 areas were pulled for an operational emergency-11 submitted by the console operator.
0500-Unit 2 search trailer was 12 open due to an operational emergency-submitted by a console operator.
13 0540 hours0.00625 days <br />0.15 hours <br />8.928571e-4 weeks <br />2.0547e-4 months <br /> gate 14 was secured - by this I mean we had left the perators in there because of some type of problem.
0630 hours0.00729 days <br />0.175 hours <br />0.00104 weeks <br />2.39715e-4 months <br /> gate 14 14, we did the same.
15 I
16l MARSH:
Excuse me.
What's the location of gate 14?
g 18i FINICLE:
Gate 14 is on the northwest side of Three Mile Island.
It's g
i located over here.
21 MARSH:
That would be like the north gate
...?
l 23 FINICLE:
Straight out.
894 IU/
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5 1
MARSH:
By the north gat? coming in from the Island?
2 3
FINICLE:
No, it's located directly across from the green admin trailers.
4 I
5-MARSH:
O k.
6 7
FINICLE:
At 0653 hours0.00756 days <br />0.181 hours <br />0.00108 weeks <br />2.484665e-4 months <br />, a radiation emergency was declared in the Unit 2 area.
Personnel that was notified was 5.P.O. Myers, who was 8
g acting as the alternate that night, and myself, Sgt. Finicle.
Also 10 n ted on the log, was noted by K. Bryant at 0701 - tc secure the north and the south gates.
I 12 MARSH:
Can you spell that last name.
Is that B-r y*a-n-t?
g 14)
FINICLE:
B r y-a n-t. (Bryan) At which time we did so.
During this 15 time, we also had started our musters for accountability on TMI, at 16,l the different areas:
Unit 1 control room, Unit 2 control room, we had
{
muster points at the Unit 1 warehouse, and the north auditorium located 18l within the plant.
At 0754, excuse me, 0755 - it was noted that George Kunder informed me, meaning the Console Operator, that the PSP helicopter was going to land on TMI, on the northeast parking lot of the Island.
According to the log here, it says that 601 - Sgt. Corl was notified of this.
The log also indicates at 0835 - the PSP helicopter landed on the north side of the parking lot.
Again, Sgt. Corl was 24 notified of the incident, according to the log.
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1:
MARSH:
The " PSP" would be the Fennsylvania State Police?
I 2!
l 3
FINICLE:
The Pennsylvania State Police.
Right.
At 0700, the Gregg 4l SP0 was pulled from the R-1 area by orders of HP - Health Physics, 5
that's a delayed entry in there.
At 1000 hours0.0116 days <br />0.278 hours <br />0.00165 weeks <br />3.805e-4 months <br />, the helicopter left 6
the north parking lot.
I was with the State Trooper in helicopter at 7
the time.
We were flying samples to the Holy Spirit Hospital.
At 0, 8
excuse me, at 1007, helicopter was back onsite and it was being escorted g
by SPO Siters.
At 1020 - the Unit 2 search area and door 11 area was I
evacuated due to the radiation.
This was also noted in the log.
At 10 11 1030 hours0.0119 days <br />0.286 hours <br />0.0017 weeks <br />3.91915e-4 months <br /> the helicopter departed the Island, and 1110 hours0.0128 days <br />0.308 hours <br />0.00184 weeks <br />4.22355e-4 months <br />, which is the last entry in the log - the Island was evacuated and the console 12 was secured.
13 14 MARSH:
Can I ask, when you came on duty, what was the first indication y u had of any abnormal activities?
6 17 FINICLE:
When I came on duty?
191 MARSH:
Yeah, you had been on duty during that evening shift.
Right?
21, l
FINICLE:
Right.
22l 23 MARSH:
What was the first thing you knew that was abnormal?
25; l
894 109 t
7 lj FIi4ICLE:
At first I really didn't, we didn't actually know, you know, l
2' I didn't notice anything abnormal, other than the fact that we were in 3
the outage area there.
I'd like to make one note that the page system, 4
when the thing actually did go off, could not be heard very well.
l 5
6 DONALDSON:
Now, by the page system, you mean the announcement of the 7
emergency, as well as the evacuation alarm?
8 FINICLE:
Well, I was on the outside there, and S.P.O. Myers, who was g
10 the alternate at the time, had advised me that the page announcement yy and stuff... I think that's what slowed things up a little bit.
Because the page system, at times, works poorly.
12 13 DONALDSON:
At what location would it not be audible from? Where were y u located?
5 161 FINICLE:
I was on the outside area, in the north parking lot area.
18(
DONALDSON:
So that would be areas outside of the plant, not as far as 19!
I the north gate?
20j 21f FINICLE:
Right.
North gate, you wouldn't be able to hear any page.
You would be contacted by the console operator.
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8 lj DONALDSON:
The first word then, that you got wa? a relay of a message 2
that had come over the PA system, beard oy one o yot.e people?
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4j FINICLE:
I got the message by way of the radio.
l Si I
6 MARSH:
By the radio?
7 FINICLE:
Yeah.
8 91 MARSH:
What was the nature of thht niessage?
10 11!
FINICLE:
That they had a radiation emergency... was declared.
13 MARSH:
Do you recall that... so the announacnant of the radiation emergency was your first notification that there were problems?
15 16 FINICLE:
Right, the console operator notified me of that.
17; i
18l l
MARSH:
OK.
And that would be at t:u times you are citing off of the 19l console log?
201 21 I
FINICLE:
To the best of my knowledge.
22I 23 MARSH:
Yeah.
Excuse me, Dale, go ahead.
24i 25l i
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@'Nh.DSON:
What I'd like to do is, log aside now, is just draw upon 2
yo'm memory, if I can, and have you just disct.ss the activities from 3;
the time you received word that an emergency had been declared.
4 5:
FINICL'd:
OK.
It was... one thing we were concerned about is getting I
6(
.the north gate and south gates secured at tris time, at which time I 7
started along with S.P.0 Myers and a few of the other SP0's, we started 3
getting musters in the north auditorium, Unit 1 warehouse, etc.
Then I started, after si ning various bows, to do the different items.
I t
g then contacted Mr. Stacey which is the Site Protection Supervisor -
10, Security Generation, Ron Stintzcum, due to the f act that I was called about getting a helicopter on TMI.
l 13 DONALDSON:
Cauld you spell both of those nc es?
14{
15j t
FINICLE:
Stact is 5-t-a-c-e y; and Busansky is B-u s-a-n-s-k y, and Stinsczum -S-t-i-n-s-c-z-u-m.
(Stintzcum)
Id; l
MARSH:
All three are %t-Ed employees?
19!
20f FINICLE:
Yes sir.
They're sargaants and and Site Protection Supervisors.
21 i
225 MARSH:
And by your stating that you notified them, this what, done what... telephonically?
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FINICLE: Yes, by telephone.
At later time, they came to the north 2,
gate area, because it was close to a shift change, at which time I 3
contacted the Shift Supervisor to gain permission to see if we could, 4
in fact, get additional S.P.O.s in on tb.cs Island to help us out with 5
the musters.
6 DONALDSON:
What is the normal procedure that you follew, or are 7
8 supnosed to follow, when a radiatica emergency is declared?
9 FINICLE:
Ok.
10 One of the things we're supposed to do is immediately secure the aorth and the south gates.
Now, we're riot supposed to let anyone in or out unless we have permission from the Shift Supervisor, Emergency Director or Supervisor of ECS.
The only people that we are 3
i permitted to let out, with the permission of one of the three, is the I
grot.ps that go out to take readings and samples.
15l 16 DONALDSON:
Then at what time would you say that the north and south gate had been secured?
19 FINICLE:
OK.
As I said before, according to the log here, it says i
20 that at 0701 they were notified to secure the north and south gates.
This was documented by the console operator.
22 23 DONALDSON:
Then to your knowledge, no one, other than those individuals 24 who had been authorized by the individuals you previously mentioned, 25 were allowed to enter the site after, say, 070l?
i 894 113 l
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FINICLE:
That's carrect.
No one was permitted on or off unless they 2
had the consent of the Shift Supervisor.
3 4
DONALDSON:
Are you familiar with the term, as they use it in the 5
Emergency Plan, of " nonessential per'sonnel"?
6 7
FINICLE:
Yes.
8 DONALDSON:
To your knowledge, were any nonessential personnel permitted g
10 entry to the site after declaration of the radiation emergency?
11 FINICLE:
To the best of my knowledge, I don't... I would say no.
13 MARSH:
Excuse me.
You've made reference to a Site Supervisor giving g
permission.
Who was your Site Supervisor that evening?
15 16i FINICLE:
To be truthful with you, at that time, I really can' t tell, I really can't say at that time.
I'd have to check back through the logs and find out who the Shift Supervisor that was on at that time.
19f 20f MARSH:
Ok, who would you have been reporting that evening? Who would be your immediate supervisor? Do you recall? Would you just be going to the console on your reports?
24 2sj 394 j14 l
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12 1.
FINICLE:
No, I contact, like I say, I contacted Jim Stacey, who is I
2 the Site Protection Supervisor of Security Generation.
He's the top 3
supervisor right now 4'
MARSH:
OK.
What I'm after is, let's suppose something else had 5
6 happened during that evening... you found a building broken into, or such as that.
Who would you have reported to onsite?
7 8
FINICLE:
The Shift Supervisor.
g 10 MARSH:
And you would have reached him in what manner? Through the radio? Just asking for the Supervisor?
13 FINICLE:
No.
There would have been a phone conversation.
l 15 00NALDSON:
16, that Shift Supervisor that he's speaking of, I belicve, is 1
the Operating Shift Supervisor in the control room.
18(
MARSH:
OK.
I 20f DONALDSON:
Not a security shift supervisor.
21 22 MARSH:
OK.
23 894 lib 24 25 i
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13 1;
FINICLE:
Plus an incident report would have been made concerning the 2
incident.
3 4
MARSH:
Fine.
OK.
5 6
DONALDSON:
Now, from the time the gate was secured, I'd like discuss 7
the muster procedures that you followed.
From talking to other individuals 8
who were involved in the emergency, it appears that there were some g
nonessential people in the north assembly area.
And that'would be, I 10 guess, the auditorium... is that correct?
11 FINICLE:
Yes.
p.
13 DONALDSON:
You mentioned that you had no knowledge of any nonessential p
personnel being in there...
15 16j I
FINICLE:
Um hm.
g 18 DONALDSON:
Had you heard froa anyone that people had been permitted entry?
21 FINICLE:
No, I didn't.
I 23l DONALDSON:
Who would be an individual that was at the north gate that I might speak with to find out more about this?
I 894 116
14 1
FINICLE:
You'd have to check back on the log for that night to see 2
who was working at the gate at the time.
4.
DONALDSON:
Now after the time that essentially you followed through 5
n the procedures, the gate was secured, and people were allowed entry 6
to the site only upon proper permission, at what point in time were 7
the normal emergency security procedures abandoned in favor of a g
different type of operation?
9 10 You mean, what time did we cease from the emergency, or
...?
FINICLE:
11 DONALDSON:
What I'm referring to, in some point in time the gates g
were essentially open and there was free access to the site, virtually 13 by any number of people.
p 15!
FINICLE:
That I couldn't really say, cause like I said before, another
... Sgt. Carl had come on then, at 8:00.
18l 00NALDSON:
Could you spell his name?
19l i
20l t
FINICLE:
C-o- r-1.
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22l DONALOSON:
Then your activities for the rest of the day were primarily 23, involved in working with the State Police in shuttling samples...
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FINICLE:
That correct.
2 3
DONALDSON:
...in the helicopter?
4 5
FINICLE:
That's correct.
6 7
DONALDSON:
Approximately what time did your day end?
8 FINICLE:
Approximately, I'd say 1:30 that afternoon.
g 10 DONALDSON:
And when did you next report for duty?
g 12 FINICLE:
That following night.
g 14f I
DONALDSON:
What was the status, or what procedures were in effect for 15!
controlling access to the site at that time?
16l 17 FINICLE:
S.P.O.s were assigned to the north gate and the south gates.
They had to have the proper clearance and permission to gain access on i
to the site.
The S.P.O.s were uing respirators out at the time.
20' We remained in the Observatio,: Center with SP0s controlling traffic in and out up there.
And basically, when gates needed to be opened we had two individuals going to open up the gate.
24 251 89j lJ8 l
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16 1.,
MARSH:
Can I ask, what is the normal contingent of people under your 6
2 command while you're on duty?
3 4
FINICLE:
SP0s, meaning Met-Ed site protection officers and Gregg site 5
protection officers 6
MARSH:
That would be approximately how many people?
7 8
FINICLE:
You mean before or...
g 10 MARSH:
Before.
yy 12 FINICLE:
You're talking, maybe 13 Met-Ed and maybe 10 Gregg - SP0s.
13 14
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FINICLE:
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MARSH:
That's the...
19l 20l l
FINICLE:
Contract guard.
21!,
22 MARSH:
Contract.
And the second evening when you came back, did you still maintain appproximately the same number of people or was it escalated?
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1 FINICLE:
We had.. we didn't have any Gregg on site then.
We had i
2t more Met-Ed SP0s.
3 4
MARSH:
Do you recall an approximate number?
5 FINICLE:
No, I don't.
6 7
MARSH:
- 0. K.
8 9
DONALDSON:
Going back to discuss the muster for just a minute, what 10 time was the muster complete?
3 12.
FINICLE:
Again, I'd have to check back on the muster logs and stuff, 3
if they even had times on them.
We were assisted by other employees, meaning Met-Ed employees, in the auditorium area, were helping us and assisting us in taking the musters.
17 DONALDSON:
Do you know whether or not there were any persons or individuals listed as missing?
i 20 FINICLE:
We had one listed; however, we located the individual, and 21, to the best of my knowledge, we had 100 percent accountability.
23 DONALDSON:
Backing up now to the time before the incident, would you 24 just briefly discuss the scope and the nature of the training involve-25 l
894 120 I
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ment that you and your Site Protection Officers have had, in relation 2
to fulfilling your responsibilities under the emergency procedures?
3 4
FINICLE:
Each SPO, including myself, before they can perform any 5
duties on TMI, they must go through the classroom, at which time they 6:
g through, are familiarized with all the procedures, the plans,, and 7
including the radiation emergency.
Also, they go through firearms g
training at a later time.
They get qualified to carry a firearm.
9 t
10:
DONALDSON:
Then you have been familiarized with the accountability 11l procedures and the site security procedure.. and I'm not sure what g
the number is... that describes the procedures to be followed for access to the site?
13 14!
15l FINICLE:
That's correct.
I 16i DONALDSON:
During emergencies.
p 18l FINICLE:
Every SP0 is aware of that in his training.
Plus, we have 19l i
drills on it from time to time.
20!
21 DONALDSON:
The training to that is provided.. who conducts that training?
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19 11 FINICLE:
Sgt. Busansky of Metropolitan Edison, is one of our sargeants.
2 He is conducting it.
3 4
DONALDSON:
Do you also receive any emergency plan training from 5
anyone in the Health Physics group, in relation to potential hazards 6
r y ur actions for personnel protection?
7 FINICLE:
Yes,PeteVelez,whoiswithHealthPhysics,iiegivespart 8
gl of the training on what the different signs mean, what different 1 cations you can go in, and what locations you can't go in.
10 I
11!
DONALDSON:
Returning to muster again, and the control at the gate...
the north and south gate... at any time during the 30th, the 28th to the 30th, can you pinpoint a day when the access to the facility 15lj changed from a more controlled access to the more open and free access 16l approach?
1 17 FINICLE:
No, I really can't.
18{
19l DONALDSON:
Then, is it safe for me to m sume that it did.not occur 20j 21i during the time frame of the 28th through the 30th, or that it may have but you just don't remember?
22 23 FINICLE:
To be truthfully, I can't really say to the fact that I 24 wasn't here 24 hours2.777778e-4 days <br />0.00667 hours <br />3.968254e-5 weeks <br />9.132e-6 months <br />.
I can't, you know, I can't speak for the time 25 limit and the time span that I wasn't here.
l 894 122 l
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20 1
DONALDSON:
Was Mr. Stacey fairly heavily involved during the period 2
of the 28th through the 30th, in terms of the access to the site, 3
things of this nature?
4 5[
FINICLE:
Mr. Stacey, as I said before, was notified and we had a 6
command post set up at the Observation Center for badging of individuals.
7 DONALDSON:
Are you aware of any difficulities or any problems that 8
g any of you-Site Protection Officers or yourself may have encountered
~
in trying to implement your procedures?
10 11!
FINICLE:
Once in a while you get people that want to go in right g
aWay, Defore you Can even get Clearance, and the, you know, entry was denied until we got the proper clearance.
15 16l DONALDSON:
Were you ever located at the north gate, and did you observe any entries through the north gate into the facilicy?
18 FINICLE:
Yes, from time to time I have stopped down to check on the SP0s.
20 21 DONALDSON:
And the entries that you observed, were they all made I
22l properly, that is, with prior approval?
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21 1
FINICLE:
To the best of my knowledge, yes.
2 3
MARSH: When you did come across an instance where someone requested 4.
entrance and the checks werc made and they were subsequently granted s
entrance. is there a log kcat of that?
I 6l 7
FINICLE:
Yes, there's a visitors registration at the north gate 8
there, of the vehicles that go in.
I again, I would have to check g
back to see if, in fact, how many er.:: ries were made on that date and time.
10 11 h
MARS 4:
Are you aware of those procedures, of that logging being suspended at any time, or as far as you know, was that kept in effect?
13 14-FINICLE:
Again, I'd have to check back on that, because I was...
15 16 MARSH:
From your own knowledge, I'm just asking.
g 18 FINICLE:
Like I said before, I wasn't down at the north gate as much g
as a lot of the other SP0s was because I was over at the Observation Center, helping over there.
22 00NALDSON:
Do you know whether or not the survey teams were logged in and out?
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FINICLE:
I have no idea.
2:
3 MARSH:
Reflecting back to some of the exercises that you've alluded 4
to, what are the frequency of the exercises of this plan?
5 6
FINICLE:
You mean, when do we have the drills?
7 MARSH:
Yes, let's say, over the last year... how many exercises have g
g you participated in?
10 FINICLE:
I'd say two, that I've participated in.
g 12 MARSH:
Do you feel they were fairly representative of the real world, 3
when you actually had an event? Dit. things track similar to what you had been exercised in?
16 FINICLE:
The only problem that we found that, when we had the exercises, the people don't take it serious enough and they don't want to muster.
19 MARSH:
This is one of the areas we'd like to get into.
The line of questic. 1g that we're going through now is not geared specifically at fault finding, but more at gaining information that we can benefit in the future from.
I hope you're not taking this that we're seeking out faults on the part the licensee or Met-Ed or that.
We're looking more 24 for what was the actual occurrences that happened, what did you observe 25 I
03'k l25
23 1
and what did you hear, in order to gain from that an evaluation for 2
what may have to be changed or where did problems come up, so 3
4 FINICLE:
One problem was when we were mustering individuals in the 5
auditorium area, one thing we'd advised them, they could not eat drink 6
r smoke during the time.
And there's quite a few individuals, you 7
know, didn't want to take the hint on it, and we had to ask them several times.
8 9
DONALDSON:
10 What procedures would you normally follow if people had continued to violate the established procedures?
yy 12 FINICLE:
Well, first thing, I'd probably go up and take the food from 13 them, or the cigarette, or w'iatever.
However, at that time, we were m re concerned with getting the people mustered and being able to 15 account for everybody, and try to assist where we could.
17 DONALDSON:
Then, at some point in time you were in the north auditorium and had the opportunity to see who was assembled in that area?
i 20 FINICLE:
That's correct.
22 DONALDSON:
Approximately how many people would you say were in that area?
24 as 894 126 l
24 1
FINICLE:
It was pretty crowed in there.
I'd say there might have 2
been, maybe sixty or seventy people in there.
That's just a rough 3
estimate.
4 5
DONALDSON:
Approximately what time was this?
6 FINICLE:
Off hand, I really couldn't say.
7 8
DONALDSON:
Do you have any idea how many people are normally on the g
site during a backshift?
10 11 FINICLE:
Number wise, I couldn't give you that.
We'd have to check ac ug n an access log, which is kept at the north gate.
13 14I I
DONALDSON:
The procedures call for nonessential personnel located 16l inside the facility to report to the north auditorium.
Is that correct?
t 17 FINICLE:
Right.
19 DONALDSON:
Then I'm correct in assuming that the individuals who were in the north auditorium were nonessential personnel, is that correct?
22f FINICLE:
No, I wouldn't really say that.
There was, like I said, 23 Met-Ed employees there who worked throughout the plant there.
- Again, 24 we have, as I indicated before, we have Unit I warehouse, which also 25 is a muster point, and different muster areas throughout the plant.
l 894 127
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25 1.
DONALDSON:
Do you recall any individual in there that you see during 2
your routine duties that you could place in a particular job.
For 3
example, there might be a particular girl that you know that's a 4
secretary in a particular office area, or one of the men who happens 5
to work in a specific area?
6 FINICLE:
Yeah.
There was one individual... I'm trying to think of 7
his name.
He works for, I believe it's for Utilities...
8 9
DONALCSON:
You can't recall his name?
10 11 FINICLE:
No, not right off hand.
13 DONALDSON:
Do you recall whether or not any individuals that were in I
there, were office workers?
15j
\\
16' FINICLE:
No, I really couldn't say if there was, i
18l DONALDSON:
I guess the point I'm trying to make is that we've got the north auditorium... which is fairly large, I would guess, probably what, 50 feet by 25 or 30 feet... filled with people and I'm just trying to place where all these people came from, if access to the site had been denied.
23 24 25 f
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26 FINICLE:
Mostly all the people in there were already on the Island.
1:
2 at the time.
3' DONALDSON:
You're saying they were on the Island at that time the 4
5 emergency was declared?
6l FINICLE:
That's correct.
7 8
DONALDSON:
Could you refer back to your shift log there and tell me g
' 9'"'Y * '
10 11 FINICLE:
According to the log here, it was documented by the console operator... it says that the radiation emergency was declared at 0653 hours0.00756 days <br />0.181 hours <br />0.00108 weeks <br />2.484665e-4 months <br />.
14; 15 MARSH:
I brought you in a roster, a machine printout provided by Met-Ed, of Utility Maintenance Personnel.
It's in alphebetical listing by name.
Just see if that refreshes your memory, or if you recognize l
anyone from there.
19l 20l 21(l I assume that we could also get the names of the individuals DONALDSON:
who were there from the muster sheets.
Is that correct?
22 23 FINICLE:
That is correct.
24 25 394 179 i
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27 1
MARSH:
Why don't we just save time then.
We can go to the muster 2
sheets to secure that information.
I've got another question.
From 3
your knowledge, do any of your people assist Health Physics
.. and 4
I'm thinking of a situation where Health Physics may have located and 5
designated area as a high radiation area or potential hazardous area 6
... dDo you people render assistance to them in posting or attempting 7
to control access to those areas, or do they take care of all that 8
p sting and securing themselves?
9 FINICLE:
10 The only places where we usually have an individual...
there's no high radiation there... is back at the Unit 1, Unit 2 3
reactor hatch, like of Unit 2.
Other than that, HP usually handles
""Y
^
13 14 M RSH:
- 0. K.
They would not, if they came up with a problem there, 15 they would not have contacted you and requested your assistance to assist in posting and securing hazardous areas?
18{
FINICLE:
Not in posting hazardous areas; however, if they would need 19l us to control an area, they might call us, however.
To the best of my 20 knowledge, they didn't.
22 MARSH:
Okay.
23 8H 130 24 25 l
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28 1
DONALDSON:
I'd like to go back to the people under your command just I
21 very briefly, and discuss their evacuation from the facility.
How 3
many people under your command were in the facility at the time the 4
emergency was declared?
5 6
FINICLE:
Again, I'd have to check back on the roster because from day 7
to day we have different number, depending on if anybody calls in sick g
or anything like that.
9 DONALDSON:
To your knowledge, when had evacuation of those people 10 n
been completed?
12 FINICLE:
You mean the people that was on my crew?
13 14 NA N
es.
15 16 FINICLE:
To be truthful with you, I was, like I said before, I was g
relieved by Sgt. Cori and was with the State Police in a helicopter.
8l So I wasn't on the Island at the time, whenever they went off.
19 20 MARSH:
They would have still been there when you began traveling with a helicopter and the samples.
23 FINICLE:
That's correct, yes.
n 24 03'
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29 1
DONALDSON:
Would you say that up, as far as the knowledge that you 2
have, that your Site Protection Of ficers performed as required by the 3
Security and Emergency Plan Implementing Procedure?
4 5
FINICLE:
Yes.
I feel that they did do a very good job.
6 MARSH:
I'm sorry, but you've indicated, you've noted the one name on 7
8 the utility maintenance list as being the individual you were trying to locate?
g 10 FINICLE:
No.
That's not the one.
You asked me if I recognize anybody that was in there at the time.
13 MARSH:
Okay.
So, this is another individual?
I 15j l
FINICLE:
Right.
17 MARSH:
Who was that?
18l 19 FINICLE:
That's Max Beare.
However, I don't see his name on this, on the utility listing.
21.
22 MARSH:
Okay, thats 8-A-I-R, 8-I-A-R?
23 241 894 132 25 t
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FINICLE:
Yeah. However, he might be working for.. it might be a 2
mistake on my part for thinking he worked in maintenance.
3 4
MARSH:
Okay.
5 6
DONALDSON:
What I'd like to do is give you the opportunity to make 7
any general comment that you may have regarding the role of your Site 8
Protection Officers and security under these kinds emergency conditions.
g And don't feel that you have to limit yourself, if you have any recom-10 mendations, suggestions, concerns?
1 11 FINICLE:
g Excuse the expression, I feel they did a helluva good job, being in the situation that we were.
As far as I'm concerned, the 13 SP0s conducted themselves in a very mannerly order and did the best that they could.
15 I
16!
MARSH:
How about adequacy of equipment, did you have adequate equipment, did it perform well, do you have problems or were there problems l
present from, lets say, radios having dead batteries or insufficient batteries to support the project?
l 21' FINICLE:
We had a limited number of radios; however, we could've used more at the time.
Batteries became a problem, due to the fact that the limited number of those.
24
- 5 894 133 i
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31 1
MARSH:
Any other equipment problems come to mind?
l 2
3 FINICLE:
Not at the time, no.
4, 5
DONALDSON:
How about the communication from, say, the control room or 6
the Emergency Control Center, to you. Were your people adequately 7
informed to know what was going on?
8 FINICLE:
Radio communication was very, very poor, due to the fact g
10 that everyone was on the same frequency and made it extremely hard in trying to get back to the security.
By this I mean, operators who g
were out taking samples were broadcasting to the Observation Center; security was contacting security, security observation, visa versa; g
and the network at that time was extremely high at radio communications.
15i MARSH:
You work off of a single channel?
17 FINICLE:
We were; however, now we have our own private channel.
l 19!
MARSH:
Okay, do you know if that is VHF or UHF? Do you know what kind of communications net you have?
22 FINICLE:
No, I don't.
23 894 I54 24 25 l
32 1{
DONALDSON:
You said now you have your own channel.
2 3
FINICLE:
That's correct.
4 5
DONALDSON:
Is that something that has been implemented since the 6l event?
7 8
FINICLE:
Yes, sir.
9 DONALDSON:
Is this a temporary fix, or is this now a permanent?
10 11 FINICLE:
This is now, to best to my knowledge, a permanent for us.
y One of the reasons why we needed it was to eliminiate the communications 13 with all the different departments there; however, control rooms can p
get in contact with us there.
This way it keeps the air from being 15 "P"
16 17 DONALDSON:
Are the radios clearly marked as to which radios will operate on which net?
g l
20 FINICLE:
Security has their own.
They have ten small Motorolas and they have ten large GE radios, at which we're all operating off Frequency 1.
23 24 894 135 25 i
1 1
33 1
DONAL0 SON:
Do you have anything else that may be of interest to 2
anyone who is involved in the planning for these kind of emergencies?
3 4
FINICLE:
One thing I'd like to get across to the people about the 5
seriousness of it, nieaning the other employees, when, if the event or 6
something like this ever comes down again, or even in the drills, to 7
take the thing a little more serious than what the employees were taking it.
g 9
DONALDSON:
Then what I'm hearing you say is that during the drills, 10 there's perhaps not the kind of attitude that you think is condusive for them to really learn the most from the exercise, and that they should probably pay a little closer attention to the lessons to be learned from those drills?
15 FINICLE:
That's correct.
16 17 MARSH:
I've noted that you people have now been supplemented by quite a few additional security people from various organizations.
20j FINICLE:
That's correct.
21, i
22l MARSH:
How has that integration been effected? Have these people 23 l
flowed in fairly smoothly? Have you had problems of getting them used 24 to you local procedures, or has that merger in the supplement worked 25 out well?
i.
894 136 i
34 1
FINICLE:
Yeah, we haven't had no problems.
Everybody's been working 2
together really good.
They're limited to what posts they can pull, 3
meaning the Forked River SP0s, the same as Gregg, they can only pull 4
certain posts.
I 5'
6 DONALDSON: Were the other security individuals integrated into the 7
organization any time during the period of the 28th through the 30th, 8
or did this happen later?
9 FINICLE:
This happened later, when they were brought to Three Mile.
10 11 MARSH:
g How about educating those people as they come in, regarding 13 exactly the schooling you went through on what local signals mean, what should conditions degrading, are they aware of what signals are?
g 15j es, Mey are.
Rey go Wough Me @ WaWng before 2ey 16 are permitted to go on site, on the job.
18{
l DONALDSON:
I really don't have anything further, I think that I've 19l gotten the basic information.
We'll probably need to talk to some more people.
22 I want to cover one or two small things.
One thing I would like to put into the record is the fact that we are conducting this interview at a little bit earlier hour than was originally scheduled and this is 25j r
891 137 l
35 1!
to facilitate your program.
You approached us and since it does fit 2
in we gone ahead and moved it up a little bit, at your request.
3 Secondly, we've been sitting here asking you questions, and we've 4
opened the mike to you a couple times, and I'd like to give you another 5
opportunity, if there are any comments that you, in addition to what 6
you've already made that you would like to put into the record - any 7
recommendations, anything that we could benefit from in the future, 8
feel free at this time, if you've got anything.
9l FINICLE:
I have none, other than I think you guys are doing a helluva 10 11' 9 d I D-12 MARSH:
There's a lot of ground to cover here...
13 14 DONALDSON: We don't hear that too often.
We might want to mention, 15 a we w u wan en er s log sheet or hack n in 2e 16 tape.
g
.18 MARSH:
Yes.
Is this a copy of the...
g i
20l FINICLE:
That's a photostat copy of the console log, starting, which I have there, with the information you would need.
23 MARSH:
Okay.
I note that this is a Xerox copy of the log.
In the upper right hand corners are the initials RJM, the date 4/19.
I had i
t l
894 138 i
l
36 I
seen this log before and the initials that are on it are mine, Se, I f
2, have looked at this before and we should have a copy of it.
3 4
DONALDSON:
I guess the only final q'westion I would have is in relation 5
to some of the discussions in tha newspapers and questions in the mind
~
6 of the public as to whether or not the event that took place had any 7
basis and a planned action by some, individual.
In your opinion, and 8
based upon the hearsay that you might have become privy to, do you g
believe that, in any way, the cause of this particular incident was 10 deliberate on the part of some individua17~
11 FINICLE:
To be truthful with you at this time, I don't know.
g 13 DONALDSON:
Bob, that's all I have.
Do you have anything else you p
8*Y 15 16 FINICLE:
No, I don't.
i 18{
i DONALDSON:
I'd like to thank you for taking the ti:ae to come in and 19l talk to us, and if you :;hould happen to have anything else you would like to discuss, feel free to contact.
22l FINICLE:
Thank you.
24 25 I
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37 l
If M8]$:
I would indicate that we will 5e going over the transcript 2
frori this and the other memoers of the team will re reviewing it.
3 Should we come up with additional questions and se2K to recall you and 4
have you come back, do not feel the least bit apprehensive.
Some 5
people are getting concerned, if we caH them back a second time, that 6
there's problems.
This is not the case.
It's an extremely broad and 7
technical area.
We're attempting to approach it by section of IE and sometiracs it is racessary to get back into a little more detail on
.g{
particular areas.- So don't feel bad if we do try to get back to you g
n this.
If there are-to other comments...
The time is now 11:21 10 11 p.m. and we will terminate at this point.
12 13 14' 894 140 15 i
16 17 18l 19-20 21, 22 23 24 25 i
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