ML19249B028
| ML19249B028 | |
| Person / Time | |
|---|---|
| Site: | Crane  |
| Issue date: | 05/24/1979 |
| From: | Deimler W METROPOLITAN EDISON CO. |
| To: | |
| References | |
| NUDOCS 7908290245 | |
| Download: ML19249B028 (50) | |
Text
,'
UNITED STATES OF AMERICA NUCLEAR REGULATORY COMMISSION 1
In the Matter of:
2 IE TMI INVESTIGATION INTERVIEW 3
of 4
Walter E. Deimler, Jr.
Radiation Chemistry Technician Junior 51 6
7 8
Trailer #203 9
NRC Investigation Site TMI Nuclear Power Plant 10[
Middletown, Pennsylvania 11 May 24, 1979 12 (Date of Interview) 13l July 9,1979 (Date Transcript Typed) 14 264 and 265 15 (Tape Nu.mber(s))
16 17 18 l
'l 7@&390avr 2
21 NRC PERSONNEL:
22 Robert Marsh 23 Gregory P. Yuhas 0"9 295 24 i
25{
e 1,
MARSH:
The Cate is May 24th, the time is 1:31 pm, my name is Bob 2
l Marsh.
I'm an Investigator with the US Nuclear Regulatory Commission, 3
assigned to Region III, Chicago, Illinois Office.
This afternoon we 4
are at Trailer #203, outside the South Gate at the Three Mile Island 5
Nuclear Plant, run by Met Ed.
We are here for the purpose of interviewing 6
Mr. Walter E. Deimler, Jr.
Walt, if I may, before we turn the tape on 7
we sat and discussed.the two page memo I have in front of me which you 8
have signed and I would like to review one or two bits of that and 9
acknowledge your markings of the squares on the back of that page.
10 This memo as we talked about covers the purpose of our investigation, 11 our authority and the scope of it and addresses your rights to have a 12 company or union representative if you want.
On the back that are 13 three listed questions, I'm just gonna go over them at this time and I 14:
would like to get you answers for the tape.
t 15!
i 16' MARSH:
Do you understand the above, addressing tha contents of the two 17 pages?
18j 191 DEIMLER:
Yes.
l 20' 21 MARSH:
Do we have your permission to tape this interview?
22 23 DEIMLER:
- Yes, o"9 296 24 f
25; i
f r
2 1
j MARSH:
And three, would you like a copy of the tape or transcript?
2?
I DEIMLER:
No.
4 m*
MARSH:
Fine, OK, thank you.
The fourth question is not pulled out 6
there, but is covered in the body, and that addresses your right if you so desire to have a company representative or the union representaive 8
present?
9 10 DEIMLER:
No.
11' 12!
MARSH:
Fine, anytime during this interview if you feel you do want 13 somebody in, just indicate and we will go get somebody and stop until 14l we do have them here?
I'll indicate again we are going to try to stay t
15!
close to the microphones, we are once again visited by a helicopter 16!
taking samples, while we are interviewing and it makes the recording a 17 little bit rough.
Walt, to get started, if you would, before we start 18l we have one other person in the room with us, and I'd like that individual 19 to identify himself, spell his last name and identify his position.
20 21 YUHAS:
This is Gregory P. Yuhas, US NRC Region I, Radiation Specialist.
22 23 9
797 24 25
(
l
{
3 I
I 1
MARSH:
Thank you Greg.
Walt to begin with if you would, could you 2
I give us a brief resume of your background in the nuclear power field, 3
and let us know when you joined the TMI and what the nature of your 4
duties are?
5 6
.DEIMLER:
Well as far as radiation background, I had none before I 7
started working at TMI.
I started here in 74, I think it was and I 8
started here as an analyst, well that went on for about a year, I think 9
it was about a year and they wanted to combine the Chemistry and Health 10 Physics Department to one big department and we got some training with 11 tapes, a little bit of classrcom training and supposedly we went on a 12 six week rotation and supposely one week of that six was suppose to be 13 a training week, well it was for a while until things, workload started 14!
picking up and everything and well it just became you know, we still i
15i have the training week but, very seldom ever get any type of training 16!
other than on-the-jcb.
That's about it really.
17 18l YUHAS:
Mr. Deilmer when did you become a Rad Chem Tech, about what 19 year?
20' 21 DEIMLER:
I think it was in 74 or 75, I think it was 1974.
22 23 YUHAS:
That would have been shortly after your arrival at TMI?
24 2si
" 9 298 t
t t
1 4
1 DEIMLER:
Well, yeah, not real long it possibly a year, I don't remember 2!
that much.
3 4
YUHAS:
What we are going to now is I'm gonna to ask you briefly how 5
you heard about the event and what you were involved in for the first 6
three days, just through Friday night the 30th, then just have you proceed through this at your own pace, telling us what you can remember, 8
then I'll go back and ask a few specific questions just to highlight I
9l those points that we are trying to evaluate.
At the end of that I'll t
10 give you the opportunity to bring forth any concerns or comments or 11 anything else you want to bring up and that's about it.
So if you like 12!
to begin now just describe how you heard the event, what actions you 13 were involved in the first couple of days?
14; 15l DEILMER:
I was off on Tuesday.
16 17 YUHAS:
The event occurred on Wednesday March 28.
18l 19i DEIMLER:
I was off that particular day, now I was on my way to go 20 trout fishing, and I was headed down route 441 out toward my Mom and 21 Dad's to get some things I had left out there, that I wanted to take 22 along fishing with me, well I had the CB on and I heard, well I had 23 seen a bunch of State Police cars along the road, I got on the CB and 24 25
" 9 299 t
5 lt I
tried to find out why all the State Police cars around, and I don't 2
know who it was, the guy answered me back said that they think they 3
were having a problem down at TMI.
Well I was being noisy and I wish I 4
wouldnt have been, but any how I took a ride down, seen all the cars 5
and everybody parked so I stopped in and I walked out to the front of 6l the observation center and talked to Pete Velez.
Asked him you know 7
what was going on and how things were.
Well I left that night, I'd say 8
around 1:00 in the morning, when I finally got away to go home, and 9
well that's how I got involved in it Wednesday.
I was told more or 10 less that I had to stay to help out.
Well, I guess it was Thursday, 11 Thursday morning, Thursday afternoon, I was scheduled to come in on the 12 3-11 shift, I came in and well they sent a bunch of us over here to the 13 Island, we had to go in and down the basement of 281 level, the Aux 14!
Building of Unit 2, it was a lot of water and everything laying around i
15 on the floor at the elevator and out front, and radiation levels were 16l pretty high, they were quite a few R per hr and I was the Rad Tech in 17l charge of the Aux operators, to go down and put polly down over, over 18 top of the water to try and keep some of the airborne activity down 19l when the water would start to evaporate, so we did that all through the i
20 Aux Building in the 281 level, as much as we could, we were in Scott 21 airpacks, I picked up I think it was around a R that day.
22 23 MARSH:
That would ce one rem?
9 300 24 251 i
l l
t
6 1{
DEIMLER:
Yes one rem, then I don't remember which night it was, I 2
think it was Friday or Saturday one of those nights, it was on one of 3
the offsite monitoring teams.
Did some monitoring up through Middletown 4I and down route 441'and also I got to go for a ride in the helicopter, a*
do some monitoring around the stacks, around the cooling towers, dose 6
rates with..didn't do much, didn't do any air sampling while I was in 7
the helicopter or anything like that and I was accompanied by an Aux 8
operator, by the name of Skip Carr.
I was giving him the readings, 9
dose rates and he was writing the location and the dose rates down on a 10l survey map of some type I don't remember what he had any more. And then 11 we were assigned to Unit 2 control room in the Health Physics Office in 12 the Unit 2 control room at the time, a temporary office.
From there we 13 did routine surveys, well they turned out to be routine surveys throughout 14, the turbine building and the controlled area, the control tower.
We 15!
assisted in help training some of the contractors and Panelec persnnnel I
16!
take air samples on HPR 219 which is an area monitor.
Well, HPR 219 is 17 a monitor of the Unit 2 reactor building, the air monitor in the reactor 18 building.
Filled out RWPs in the Unit 2 control room.
19f 20 YUHAS:
I think at this point we're probably into Saturday.
21 22 DEIMLER:
Yes.
" 9 301 23 24 25j I
I I
I t
7 1
YUHAS:
At this point, I want to go back and ask a few specific questions.
i 2'
Do you remember at about what time you got to the observation center 3
when you ran into Pete Velez?
4 5
DEIMLER:
I think it was around 10:00 in the morning.
That was on 6
Wednesday.
7 8
YUHAS:
What did Velez assign you to do?
9 10 CEIMLER:
Well, he assigned me to stand by, more or less, right then.
11!
Really didn't assign me to anything until later that evening.
That's..
12 I went out that evening on an off site monitoring team.
I'm pretty 13 sure..
Yea, I know it was.
That night I went out on an off site 14, monitoring team.
I didn't have...
Well, one of the reasons he sent me 15i out on a particular team right around this area was due to the fact I 16 was born and raised around here.
I know the area.
I didn't have with I
17!
me an area map and while we didn't have an extra one, is what happened.
I 18l They told me where they wanted me to go, being I knew the area, I could i
191 go there, the short cuts and things like that.
I could find my way 20!
around.
21I 22 YUHAS:
Then the first day essentially the only HP assignment you took 23 was the area monitoring team?
24!
" 9 302 25 l
r
8 DEIMLER:
Right.
2 YUHAS:
In the period of time that you were essentially staying around 4l the observation center, did you see anybody come out crapped up to be 5
surveyed or did you go down to the 500 KV where they were surveying 6l people?
7 8
DEIMLER:
Yea, I was down at the 500 KV and we had quite a few security 9
personnel come out with contamination mainly on their pants, the pants 101 legs. But I don't know where they had picked it up or anything like 11 that. Just about all of the Met Ed personnel who came down there to the 12 500 KV there pants were...
It showed up on the HPR 210 probe with a RM 13 14 and, I don't know, right at the time I thought it was a bunch of 14 Xenon.
I don't know whether it was, till this day, whether it was just 15l Xenon, or possibly it could have been iodine.
I don't know if the RM i
16{
14 will pick up the iodine.
17 18j YUHAS:
Do you remember who was running the observation center, who was 19 in charge of the people out there surveying clothes?
I 2C 21 DEIMLER:
Who was the people in charge? Are you talking Wednesday, 22 now?
" 9 303 22 24 25!
I
9 1
YUHAS:
Wednesday, the first day.
2 3
DEIMLER:
When I got there Pete Velez was running things from outside.
4 5
YUHAS:
But he was up at the observation center?
6 7
DEIMLER:
At the observation center.
The 500 KV, they sent some HP 8
personnel down there and I don't think there was a foreman down there 9
at the time.
10' 11 YUHAS:
So it was like Pelen and Pherse were down there?
12 13 DEIMLER:
Pelen, Harry First, myself, but they didn't come until a 14 little later. I was the first one there, I'm pretty sure I was the 15i first one there to do surveying of personnel coming from the Island.
I 16l 17 YUHAS:
Where did you get the instruments to do the surveying?
18' 19 DEIMLER:
They were...
I picked up the RM 14 at the observation center 20 and took it along down with tre I had a radio.
I took a radio with 21 me.
Security was down there.
They had a radio and they also had a RM 22 14, but I think I took one along with me also.
Security, I think, 23 started to some monitoring.
Well, number one, they don't know what 24 they were looking at to begin with, but we got everybody back and then 25 l
"9 304
10 lf j
we started going over them from head to foot, real thoroughly.
I did 96 anyhow.
Plus, we were surveying cars before we let them leave, scanning them half decently, tires and the flat parts, hood...
4 i
5 YUHAS,:
Were there any indications of skin contamination on anyone?
6 7
DEIMLER:
I don't recall that real well, but I don't remember finding 8
any on any of the people that I surveyed.
9 10 YUHAS:
What did you do with the clothes that were contaminated?
11 12 DE1MLER:
We took their clothes and bagged them, put them in plastic 13 bags, and we gave them paper coveralls to wear.
14 15 YUHAS:
Did you make any record of what the clothes, where they came 16, from and what they read, and everything?
17 18 DEIMLER:
No, I didn't at the time.
No.
We just had them put them in 19l a plastic bag.
I tried to keep it separate, each person in a separate 20!
bag.
I told them to put their name and the company that they worked 21, for in the bag with the clothing.
22l 23 YUHAS:
When you came in on Thursday the 29th, do you remember where 24 you went when you first came in?
25 c' ^ 9 3 () 5
11 1
DEIMLER:
Yes.
I went to the 500 KV sub.
2 YUHAS:
And you were out there until about when?
5 DEIMLER:
We were out there...
I think we waited around for about an 6
hour until they finally brought us on to the Island.
7 8
YUHAS:
Do you remember about what time you heard you were going to be 9
in charge of this team to go in and put the plastic down and who did 10 you hear it from?
11 12.
DEIMLER:
I can't recall.
I don't recall who told me to do this.
13 14.
YUHAS:
Was Dubiel or Mulleavy in the control room, the Unit 2 control i
15; room at this time?
16l f
17 DEIMLER:
I don't know if they...
You mean when I went down to put 18i this poly in?
1 19 20 YUHAS:
Yes.
21 22 DEIMLER:
I don't know if they were in the Unit 2 control room or not.
23 I don't have any idea where they were.
o"9 306 24 25 i
t
)
12 1
j YUHAS:
Who appeared to be directing the affort as far as going down to 2f put the polydown? Who was organizing.tbis group and telling you what to do?
4l 5
DEIMLER:
It was one of the health physics foremen that wanted this job 61 done, and actually I was more or less running the job once we got into 7
our Scott air packs and eveything and went down to lay Enis poly on the 8
floor.
I was monitoring, trying to make sure the guys didn't get an-9f overdose or anything like this.
I was trying to hurry them up.
I was 10' even helping them lay the poly out.
1 14 12 YUHAS:
Did you have any survey records to look at before you went down 13 to get an idea of what you were getting into?
14, t
15; DEIMLER:
No.
I was just told that the area around the sump, there is 16 a sump or drain, down there, it was reading, I think somebody said 17 either 7 or 10 R.
18l 19 YUHAS:
Did they tell you about how much water was on the floor?
20 21 DEIMLER:
Yea, they said there was cbout 6 inches of water.
22 23 YUHAS: Did they tell you that the water was highly contaminated?
24 25
""9 307 I
f
13 DEIMLER:
Yea.
2, 3
YUHAS:
Did someone tell you how much you were going to be allowed to 4
take for this job, as well as the other workers who were going down c
with you?
How much exposure you were permitted to take on the job?
6 7
DEIMLER:
No, they didn't tell me, but I know that I had a low exposure 8
j for the quarter at the time and according to our procedure, we're 9
allowed to go to 1 rem per quarter, 1.25 rems per quarter, and I checked 10 to see the guys that were going down with me, to see what kind of 11:
exposure they had, and their exposures, from what I could gather just 12 by asking them, weren't that great.
I just tried to make sure that 13, they didn't exceed the 1 rem.
14!
151 YUHAS:
Do you remember who the aux operators were that went down?
l 16l 17 DEIMLER:
One of the aux operators was Joe Manowski, and I can't remember 18{
who the other two or three were.
I can't remember that.
19I 20l YUHAS:
So you had about 4 people?
21l 22 DEIMLER:
There was about 4 or 5 of us down there.
23 24;
""9 308 25 i
)
l l
I
?
I
{
14 1
YUHAS:
Do you remember if they were all A operators, or was there a 2{
mixture of A, B and C aux operators?
3i 4
DEIMLER:
Joe Manowski was an A operator.
I believe they were all aux 5
A's, aux A operators.
I'm not sure.
6' 7
YUHAS:
What type of instrumentation did you take down?
8 i
9 DEIMLER:
I took a teletector along with me.
10!
11 YUHAS:
Did you have any idea what the air activity was down there?
12!
13 DEIMLER:
No.
Not truthfully.
I sorta figured the activity down there 14!
was high, and that's why ve wore Scott air packs.
15:
16; YUHAS:
The Scctt air pacs, did you have regulator in the demand mode II or in the pressure demand mode?
1S{
19f DEIMLER:
Had it in the demand mode.
20 21 YUHAS:
About how long did it take you to lay down the plastic?
22
" 9 309 23 24l 25f I
r
)
i
[
i,
[
15 l
l I!
DEIMLER:
We were down there about a half an hour, I believe.
Close to ol]
about a half an hour, 20 minutes or...
Anyhow, the Scott air...
Just about all of us had to get out because of the...
We were running out 9
of air, so however long that took us.
It seemed like 8 hours9.259259e-5 days <br />0.00222 hours <br />1.322751e-5 weeks <br />3.044e-6 months <br /> that we 5
were in there.
6i 7
YUHAS:
The people that told you there was about 6 inches of water on 8
the floor, was that a correct assessment, or was it more or less?
9 10f DEIMLER:
Well, it was pretty close, but the 6 inches of water wasn't 11!
completely over the whole auxiliary building floor, it was just in 12 spots, in areas, like in front of the elevator and some areas down the 13 hallway, and some areas water was going into the decay heat vaults in 14.
thct area.
Most of the floor was covered with quite a bit of water.
15j Now, it wasn't 6 inches all over.
At spots it was 6 inches, scme spots 16l it was dry.
Scme of the areas may have had 2 or 3 inches of water in 17 it.
18l 19 YUHAS:
Had that water been sampled and analyzed, and did anybody tell 20f you the results before you went down?
21}
"" 9 310 l
22l l
23t 24l 25l l
l 16 1
DEIMLER:
No.
Nobody told me the results if it was analyzed or not.
I i
i 2f don't think that it was.
3j 41 YUHAS:
Roughly, how big of an area did you cover with the poly?
5 6l DEIMLER:
You mean, cubic feet, square feet or...?
7 8
YUHAS:
Floor space.
Most of the building, half of the building, 9
quarter of the building, at that level?
10 11 DEIMLER:
A quarter of the...
I'd say we covered a quarter of the 12 building where the water was laying.
On the other side of the big roll 13 up door down by the elevator, at the 281 level, I didn't let the guys 14I go over there to look to see if there was any water or anything on the t
15l floor over there, which I think there probably was, but I knew we i
16l didn't have much time and I wanted to get all of the floor covered that
?
17l I could before we ran out of air and before we got too much of a dose i
18l of radiation.
l 19i 20' YUHAS:
Did you hav>: any idea of where the water was coming from?
21 22 DEIMLER:
It looked to me like it was coming cut of the sump.
23 a
24l
""9 3)l 25l
[
i
17 l
t 11 i
YUHAS:
Was it overflowing from the...
2' 3
OEIMLER:
Overflowing from the sump in the aux building.
4l i
5 YUHAS:
Was the water at rc,)m temperature or was it cooler or warmer 61 than room temperature?
7 8
DEIMLER:
I really couldn't tell you for sure.
I didn't reach down and 9
touch it or anything like that.
It was... The aux building 281 level, 10 the basement, well, we were in wet suits and it was hot, the roo::i,,as, 11 we were all sweating like crazy, so I don't know whether the temperature 12' of the water was hot and made the room that much hotter or what.
I 13 really don't know for sure whether it was hot or cool or...
14,
(
15j YUHAS:
Do you remerrber what range of the pocket dosimeter that you i
16l wore 17 l
18{
OEIMLER:
Yea.
I wore a low range and a high range.
19!
l 20-YUHAS:
What's the range in the high rar.ge?
21 22 DEIMLER:
The high range was 0 to 10 r, I think is the one I had one, 23 and the low range was 0 to 200 mr.
24 "9 3I2 2s 1
l f
18 i
ll' YUHAS:
Did every individual have a high range pocket dosimeter?
i 2!
I r
31 DEIMLER:
Yes.
Yes.
4f 5
YUHAS:
Did anyone receive more exposure than you did on their pocket OI dosimeter? You said you received about an r.
I 7
8 DEIMLER:
Yea.
I received about an r.
I don't know.
Possibly yes.
I 9
had sort of figured that I'm going to be get involved in this stuff 10' quite a bit and I tried to stay away from some of the areas I knew was 11!
hot myself and use an operator rather than myself, sort of save myself i
12i a little bit.
13 f
14 YUHAS:
Could you describe the type of whole body dose rates that you 15l saw down there?
16) i 17l OEIMLER:
Yes.
Directly as I came off the elevator I think it was 18l reading about 2 r per hr and over close to the sump I think it was 19 reading somewhere in the area of about 10 r.
The closer you got with 20 the probe down to the water the general area around the sump was about 21 10 r per hr.
At the elevator it was approximately 2 r per hr.
The 22 hallway down through the hallway and the decay heat vaults it was less 23 than an r per hr.
Then I ran into a problem, a little bit of a problem.
24 My teletector started to act up.
""9 313 25j l
f
19 1f YUHAS:
Was it the temperature?
2!
3 DEIMLER:
...the temperature.
It was was real erratic.
The needle 4
would fluctuate back and what happened was that I just didn't believe 5
it then.
You know, at first I did, but I'd seen this happen before 61 with the teletector.
The temperature, the room temperature, must 7
have...
Well, the temperature does affect it.
I had this happen in 8l the Unit 2 reactor building.
9l 10 YUHAS:
At what stage of the entry did...
11 12 DEIMLER:
This was towards the end of the entry, then the guys I was 13 with started running out of air and they were...
Them guys were really 14!
busting ass to get this poly down and they were breathing hard and I l
15!
was helping out as much as I could with laying the poly, trying to 16l check their dosimetry and things like that.
17 18 YUHAS:
When you came out, was anyone contaminated?
19l i
DEIMLER:
I don't remember.
I don't think I was, 20j 21f 22 YUHAS:
When you came out, where was the control point at? Where did 23 you frisk out and that sort of thing?
""9 314 24 25I l
i
{
20 i
l;l DEIMLER:
- 0. K.
We went in through the HP check point.
We went in 2'i through the hall way on the 305 level to the elevator and went down on I
31 the elevator and came back out at the stairway.
We came up the steps at the entry to the aux building from the 305 level, came up them steps, came down at the south end there.
We monitored out.
I think 6
we checked out at the HP area there.
I think.
7 8
YUHAS:
Could that have been the HP area of the Unit 2 control room?
9l, 10 DEIMLER:
No, that was down stairs we checked out somewhere.
I don't 11l even remember where the heck that was now.
As I say, its been a long...
12f 13 YUHAS:
When you went down to go in, was there a control point monitor 14!
set up with a person manning it or was it just went across the step off f
15!
p d and went in?
16l l
17j DEIMLER:
I don't even remember if there was a step off pad there, now 181 that...
191 20j YUHAS:
The doors of the aux building weren't locked ct that point?
21l 22 DEIMLER:
No.
9 315 23 24 25 i
21 1
YUHAS:
About how much poly? Did you have to lug one of those 80 pound 2'
rolls down there or...
31 i
4 DEIMLER:
It wasn't clear poly.
It was that reinforcea poly that's, I S
guess, fire retardant or something, and them rolls, they weigh every 6
bit of 80 pounds.
We had 3 or 4 rolls of that we took down.
7 8
YUHAS:
Did you lay most of that on the floor?
9 10 DEIMLER:
Yea, we laid all of that on the floor.
11 12 YUHAS:
As far as you know, all that stuff's still down there, isn't 13 it?
14, 15 DEIMLER:
As far as I know, yes, it's still there.
16l l
17 YUHAS:
When the fellows came out, did you log your doses down somewhere?
18j Did you log in what time you went in, that sort of thing, on a book or 19!
sheet of paper somewhere?
20' 21l DEIMLER:
I know I kept track of my own by dosimeter, now.
At the time 22 I didn't have my own TLD.
Mine was in the Unit 1 health physics lab, 23 and the TLD I got from over at the observation center was a temporary 24i TLD and I think we may have logged in and out, our doses and everything, i
2Si over at the observation center.
I know I logged mine over there.
" 9 316
22 YUHAS:
I'm looking for the specific entry.
2!
}
DEIMLER:
I don't think we logged it anywhere, there.
4j 5
MARSH:
Gentlemen, may I interrupt for a minute, the time being 2:02 0
p.m., reading 464 on the meter, I'm going to terminate this tape and 7
turn it over.
8 9
MARSH:
The time is 2:02 p.m., continuing on the second side of the 10 first cassette, reading 466 on the meter at this time.
11 12 YUHAS:
The 1 r.
Was that by pocket dosimeter reading or was as a 13l result of your TLD being read out?
t 14l l
15j DEIMLER:
That was a pocket dosimeter reading.
161 17 YUHAS:
Did you correlate that to the TLD badge reading when (unintel-18 ligible).
I 19l l
20l OEIMLER:
Yes, and it was pretty close.
21 22 YUHAS:
So you did get about 1 r?
23 24, 25j i
i I
23 1
DEIMLER:
Yes.
2:
I 3'
YUHAS:
And there were 4, 5 of you total?
4 5
DEIMLER:
I think there was 5 of us all together, yea.
6 YUHAS:
So essentially there were probably 5 or 6 manrems expended?
8 9
OEIMLER:
Right.
10 11 YUHAS:
Did you finish the plastic job or did someone else come in to 12 :
finish it later?
13 14!
DEIMLER:
I don't know whether they put any more poly down, other than i
15l what we put down?
But what we put down in there was what we were 16 supposed to do, the area we were supposed to cover, as much of that 281 17 level as we could get with the poly we had.
18[
i 19l YUHAS:
Did someone take an air sample before the poly was put down and I
20 an air sample afterwards to determine if it was effective?
21l 22 DEIMLER:
I don't kncw.
They may have been getting readings up in the 23, control rooms, from the monitors up there, I really don't know.
24
" 9 318 25 t
i i,
24 lt j
YUHAS:
Do you remember the approximate time you finished this job?
2t 3
DEIMLER:
I don't even remember what time we went in to do this job.
j 4j i
5 YUHAS.
We know it was somewhere between 3 and 11 on the 29th, right?
Gi 7
DEIMLER:
Yea, I'm pretty sure.
8 9
YUHAS:
Somewhere on the swing shift?
Do you remember if you worked on 10 till the 30th that morning, or did you go home about midnight on the 11 29th?
12i 13 DEIMLER:
No, we worked until 7:00 that following mornir.g.
14, 15l YUHAS:
Were there any other jobs that you felt were significant from 16; that night, or was the poly job the high point?
17 18(
DEIMLER:
I don't know for sure if they did any...
I wasn't involved 19f in any more really significant jobs like that, as far as ent cing the 20 aux building.
21!
22 YUHAS:
Do you remember where you spent most of the night after you 23l accomplished this auxiliary building job?
9 3]9 24 1
- 25l, i
I i
r I
25 1
DEIMLER:
I think it was back over at the observation center.
We went i
back over there.
i 3'
4 YUHAS:
Was this some more of just standing around or...
5 6!
DEIMLER:
Well, we were standing around quite a bit and then we got 7
involved in the monitoring teams, helping out, on site and off site.
8 9
YUHAS:
Did you spend much time in the Unit 2 control room during this 10 event, prior to the 31st when you started instituting RWP's and monitoring 11 procedures?
12 13 DEIMLER:
No, I didn't.
14, 15l YUHAS:
At this point I don't have any further technical question as to 16l what you' re involved in.
I'd like to give you the opportunity to bring 17' forth any points or general comments about the health physics program 18 or the way the incident was handled.
19 20 DEIMLER:
Well, I don't think that we were very well prepared for this 21, as far as emergency equipment, on or off site.
It seemed like there 22 was a lot of wasted time with the health physics personnel.
They 23 wouldn't let us really do a whole lot.
I think that our foremen leave 24 a lot to be desired as far as the...
They got shook up which..
I 25 1-na yon j
7 JdU
{
I
{
26 lt guess all of us were shook up, but it seemed like that one hand didn't 2'
know what the other was doing.
I mean, they were just running around.
3 I don' t know what to say.
I mean, I think things would be a lot better 4
if, number 1, we could get more training, which we have asked them and 5
asked them and asked them, but they never...
It seems like, oh, o.k.,
6, we'll get-back to you on it, or we'll see what we can do, or yea, we're 7
going to have more traing.
This is all prior to the accident.
Now we 8
still need it and we still aren't getting any.
We don't have enough 9
people.
They've got us working, trying to get us to work 10-12 hours a I
day, 7 days a week.
That's 0.K.,
for a while, but it gets old.
People 11!
get tired, they're going to make mistakes.
Somebody is going to get 12 hurt.
You say anything to the company and...
They don't want to hear 13 more people.
They would rather have contractors coming in and stuff 14:
like this.
Right now, the way I understand, I can't prove, but I i
15 understand that the Nuc Services people were hiring some people that 16i have little very health physics background, if any.
Nothing to prove I
17l that they've had any previous experience in health physics.
Some of l
18j the people that they've had down there had to come to us to ask us how 19l to figure out an air sample, how to calculate it, and things like this.
2d I realize our technicians are trying, we war.t our job.
We want our 21 job.
We want to keep this place going and possibly get Unit 2 going 22 again, but they, it seems like they don't want to listen to any of our 23 problems.
be tell them, we give them ideas on how to do something and 24 it seems 'ike they don't want to listen to any thing we tell them, and 25
""9 321 1
i t
f
f 27 1j the guys are more or less getting fed up with things and just saying, 2t i
you know, to hell with it.
And now they got us limited to 20 millirem 3
per week, er, per day and, well, they did when we were stationed in the 4.
Unit 2 control room in our office.
Hell, we couldn't do anything.
5 6
MARSH:
Is that a very widespread feeling of frustration?
7 8
DEIMLER:
Yes.
9 10 MARSH:
You feel your counterparts and your fellow workers feel the 11; same way?
12 13 DEIMLER:
I feel they do, yes.
They've talked about it.
14
{
15i YUHAS:
Is this attitude, was it prevelant before the incident?
16!
17 DEIMLER:
Yes it was.
The reason is the way the company seemed to 18 treat us. I mean, the morale in our department, well, there wasn't any 19j morale.
I mean, people just didn't give a shit because every time you 20-turned around it seemed like the company was trying to hassle you about 21I every little thing.
The ccmpany, I mean our foreman and supervisors.
I 22' You'd ask them for a day off or something, or vacation, they'd always 23 hassle you, they'd tell you, we're going to get back to you, and, I'll i
24 tell you, the morale, due to our supervisors and foremen, even more so 25'
"^9 322 l
l l
28 1
j now, since Fred Dube left, Fred Dube was one of the guys that just 2
about everybody liked, really, we hated to see him leave.
He had the nerve to stand up and if a union person was right, to stand up and back 4
him up and the company consequently didn't like him so now they're rid 5
of him.
But as long as we're two departments combined into one, they're i
just not going to have as-good qualified people as what they should.
7 There's just too much for you to know and try to keep up with, especially 8
if they don't give you any training.
The training stinks.
I haven't 9
been in a training session for, I'll bet its been two years.
10' 11 YUHAS:
Do you realize that your training record reflects that you 12 received 24 hours2.777778e-4 days <br />0.00667 hours <br />3.968254e-5 weeks <br />9.132e-6 months <br /> of training before all of this first started?
13 i
14!
DEIMLER:
Yes I do.
I'm marked down for training on the SAM II.
I 15!
don't remember what date I was trained on it.
There's 4 guys on my 16 shift, the shift not meaning my shift, the shift of guys that I work 17 with every day, and all 4 of us are marked down as being trained on the 18(
SAM II on paper in our files and in, I guess, Tom's or Dick's files.
I 19 have never yet had training on the SAM II other than what I've gathered 20l by reading the procedure and experimenting with.
1 21!
22 YUHAS:
Let me narrow this down.
We've heard this complaint and we 23 need some specifics.
We would very much like to discern whether or not 24 those training records adequately reflect the training that you've been 2s
" 9 323 i
r f
29 1
provided.
What we're coming to is, we're finding out that, for instance, 2'
you may have participated in a drill and during that drill some one 3
individual said, this is how you operate SAM II and that was it, and 4
then the licensee went and entered 2 hours2.314815e-5 days <br />5.555556e-4 hours <br />3.306878e-6 weeks <br />7.61e-7 months <br /> of SAM II training.
5 DEIMLER:
I was in the dri-ll, myself and Pat Donnachie and, well, I was in one of the practice drills, yes, I was in the real one, and we took 8
some air samples and we were supposed to count them on the SAM II.
9 Well, luckily, the SAM II didn't operate, wouldn't work.
We had the 6
10' procedure out and were trying tc do it by procedure, but we couldn't 11 get it to operate.
So, anyhow, we didn't have to count any samples.
12 The way it's set up, I don't think I could still operate the SAM II in 13 the field.
I might be able to play with it and possibly get it running.
14 Now in the plant they have one set up, all you have to do is go in and 15!
put your sample on, push a button, it counts for a period of time, take I
16l your sample off, and calculate your microcuries per cc or milliliter or i
17l whatever it asks.
But as far as training, a lot of the stuff that they 1
18!
have me marked down for is not true.
I'd like to see what I'm supposed 19!
to be trained on.
20 21, YUHAS:
What we'll do is, I have requested the training records for the 22 HP staff and I'm going to be back off site for a few days.
When I get 23 back, I'll get hold of you and you and I will sit down and go through 24 your training record and at that time you can provide, we'll probably 25 gn I
30 1
~{
tape it, a detailed assessment of whether or not you attended that 2
training and we really need to have some specifics.
It's one thing to 3
talk about generalities for training, it's another thing to say the 4
training record says I have this many hours of training that I didn't i
5
- have, o.k.,
and we want to establish that, but we feel that there is 6
some problems with training but we need some hard core, concise statements 7
of people who say, no I did not attend that training.
New, the SAM II 8
training, that indicates you participated in the normal use of the SAM 9f II, and this is the explanation that we were given.
Now apparently you I
10' participated in a drill on the use of the SAM II unsuccessfully.
11, 12 DEIMLER:
That's right.
Unsuccessfully, and I have had no training, no 13l formal training, training, other than what I did on my own to learn how 14!
to operate the SAM 2 by asking some questions to guys that I work with 15 and some of the people have been trained on them, yes.
As far as 16f setting one up, calibration of the SAM II if I needed it, I couldn't do i
17j i t.
I 18j 19)
YUHAS:
Do you have retraining in health physics, in other words, 20 you're obligated to have a retraining program.
21, 22 DEIMLER:
We have a general employee training once a year.
It's everyoody 23 in Met Ed here on the Island is supposed to get this.
What it is is a 24l training session with safety, security, QC.
To me, it doesn't do me i
onn l
31 Il any good to sit in on any of that.
What I wanted to get...
The health 2'
physics department also has an hour or two, they're supposed to go over this and that, the general freshen up thing with everybody.
Well, we go through everything else b0t the health physics part of it, and all they do is give us a test, we don't sit there and listen to one of the foremen or whatever, go through his ritual or routine or whatever he's supposed to do, they just give us the test and tell us we better not 8
flunk it.
9 10' YUHAS:
Can you describe the test?
Is the test representative of what 11 a health physics technician should know?
12 13 DEIMLER:
Oh yea.
Every one of us should know.
We should ace it.
14l l
15l YUHAS:
If this test intended just for, say, general contract workers?
16 17{.
DEIMLER:
Yes.
18(
l 19l YUHAS:
It doesn't ask you, for instance, how sodium iodide crystal 20 works?
21!
22 DEIMLER:
No, nothing.
9 52b 23 24 25!
I
32 l'
YUHAS:
Or how to prepare some analysis or how to evaluate an exposure j
2l' or anything like that?
3 DEIMLER:
No, it doesn't go into anything like that.
S 0
YUHAS:
Is it the same test every year?
7 8
DEIMLER:
Yes.
The health physics techs get a little bit more sophis-9 ticated test than, say for instance, operations and stores and office 10' personnel.
They get a real simple test, just about a nitwit could 11 almost pass it.
It's just remembering things like quarterly dose, how 12 many millirems are you allowed to receive in a week's time.
All this 13 is given to them, they're allowed to take notes, they're allowed to 14 have their notes there when they take the test.
I know of one person, t
15i a chief in the maintenance department, I guess he took the test about 16!
3 times and failed it all 3 times.
Finally, what they did so that the 17 man could work back in the controlled was, I'm not go;ng to say this as 18{
a fact, I don't want somebody to say that I made this statement, but I 19f over heard this person and the foreman geing over the test and the 2dl foreman answering the questions for him and writing them down.
All the 21, employee had to do was write the answers down.
It was more or less 22 telling him the answers just to get him qualified for the RWP on the 23 badge.
n r, a 7
24 7
J 25j t
f
33 1
YUHAS:
How do you informed of to changes in 10 CFR 19 and 10 CFR 20?
2t DEIMLER:
Very poorly.
I don't remember every being informed of a 4
change.
5 6
YUHAS:
Do you know what 10 CFR 19 talks about?
7 8
OEIMLER:
I'm not sure.
9 10 YUHAS:
10 CFR 19 is Instructions to Workers and it is the law that 11l requires workers to be informed of the hazards of radiation.
One I
12' method that the licensee uses to state to these individuals are some 13 forms to give them this little test so that they are at least aware of i
14 the hazards they are gettng involved in.
The little incident that you 15!
just related causes concern on my part because if the man is incapable 16l of answering even the most basic questions, then really he hasn't been i
171 informed, right, of the hazards of radiation.
l 18 19l DEIMLER:
Well, see, the company tried to inform the man.
I don't 20 think they were right in what they did.
In my personal opinion, the 21 man shouldn't have been able to work in a controlled area, if he couldn't 22 pass the test on his own.
" 9 328 23 24 i
25l i
i
34 li j
YUHAS:
Is the man still here, working in controlled areas?
2 3J DEIMLER:
No, the man's retired now, I'm pretty sure he retired.
He l
either retired or he's off on disability or something of the kind.
5 6
YUHAS:
About how long ago did that incident happen?
7 8
DEIMLER:
This was about, I'd say, maybe two years ago now this happened.
9 10 YUHAS:
You don't know of any current instances where that's being 13 done, do you.
12 13 DIEMLER:
No.
14 15)
YUHAS:
In a situation like that, we would expect that once making a 16 licensee aware that you were unhappy with that kind of action, that you 17, would call the Commission and tell us.
18{
19I DEIiS.ER:
Well, at the time I just evidently didn't think of calling i
20t the Commission or didn't know that it was my right.
I do know it now, l
21l plus up until about maybe 2 to 3 years ago, about 2 years ago, according 22 to the Company I was a bad boy.
I had some problems with the company 23 and I decided finally that rather than loose my job over anything, 2 41 bitching about this, that and the other thing or whatever, I'd just I
25!
'9 329 J,
35 f
If j
keep my fnouth shut and do what I'm told, when I'm told and how I'm I
2' told.
File grievances later, or talk to the right person later, just wanted to make sure....
The Company would have like to have gotten rid 4!
of me at one time, if it wouldn't have been for the union I probably 5
would have been canned because I made waves.
6 7
YUHAS:
The waves you made were they health and safety waves regarding 8
to Part 20 or Part 19 or...
9 10 DEIMLER:
Some of them.
Some of the other things I really don't care 11l to talk about.
I brought a lot of these problems on myself.
I've been
{
12.
a good boy lately but it doesn't seem to matter.
13 14 YUHAS:
How are you informed of changes to procedures that affect you?
15i 16i DEIMLER:
Well, it started out good.
We would have a...
We had at one 17 time a standing order book that was back in the HP Lab and we also 18[
received copies, each person.
Each guy in our department has a mail 19 box, has our own mail box, and they were distributing the changes to 20) each of us.
Well, lately, it's been for quite a while, about the only 21 way you find out there's a change is if you, for instance, need that 22l procedure to refer to back to it and start reading through it, you say, 23 oh, man, this is a change.
Some of it was by word of mouth from another 24 guy, you overhear them say, this changed.
25 "9
330 i
l
[
36 l
l l
YUHAS:
The licensee specifically does not have, like, a route sheet to 2'
sign off saying that you have read the procedure that was changed?
3 DEIMLER:
They did and then that sort of went by the wayside, and now 5
it's back again.
6l 7
YUHAS:
When did it come back?
8j 9l OEIMLER:
I just seen a copy of one today, as a matter of fact.
I 10 didn't get a chance to read it yet, but each one of us is supposed to 11 read it and initial it, the date and time.
12!
(
13 YUHAS:
How long ago did it fall by the wayside before it was reinsti-
- 14i, tuted within the last few days?
15j 16i DEIMLER:
Oh, I'd say, two years, maybe longer.
t 17) i 18i YUHAS:
Were there instances where, because you hadn't been informed of 19{
the procedure change, you made an error that you got balled out for or 20' that sort of thing?
21, l
22 DEIMLER:
I myself don't remember of any, no.
We've had quite a bit of 23 problems with the radioactive releases to the river, every time you 2d' turn around they're changing the procedure on that, or different ways 25 org 33 l
37 1
l of calculating the release rate, things like that.
The only way you find out about that is if you mess one up, they kick it back at you and you have to recalculate it and everything.
4 5
YUHAS:
Could you describe for me how your facility technical specifi-61 cations require that you control high rad areas?
7 8
DEIMLER:
All radiation and high radiation area 9
that I find, I try and mark.
An area that's greater than 1 r per br, 10' supposedly we're supposed to lock the area and before anybody goes into 11 that area they have to get with the HP department to get the approval, 12l the RWP's, and these real high areas like that, an r per hr and greater, 13 we like to send an HP qualified person along with whoever goes there 14 and make sure he doesn't stay or exceed his weekly limit, things like 15l that.
But we try and lock all the areas that are greater than 1 r.
i 16' 171 YUHAS:
Why did you say supposedly?
f 18 19l DEIMLER:
Supposedly?
20 21 YUHAS:
You said, we supposedly control them by locking them? Why did 22 you make that comment?
23
"9 332 24 25 t
38 1
DEIMLER:
Well, some of the areas can change.
One day it might be f
2' reading 1 r for some reason, maybe a crud burst came through, or some-thing like that, and we might not see it that day and the area doesn't 4
get locked.
See, we have a schedule that we try and...
a schedule of i
5 sur.ays, daily surveys, and we try and go by that so that we get to 6
survey the whole auxiliary building and fuel handling buildings, all 7
the little cubicles get surveyed at least once a week, and we might not 8
discover an area greater than 1 r, we may not survey that room that 9
particular day.
It might go until the following week when its survey's 10 due that the area's supposed to be locked.
But we do try to lock all 11 the areas. If we find an area, we inform our supervisors of it, 0.K.
12t If there's no door or something like that, we get a door put on as soon 13 as we can or whatever.
Supervisors are good in that area, they try and 14 help us out there.
15l t
16l YUHAS:
Can you describe what's required for, let's say, even an HP i
17 tech to go into a high rad area?
18j 19{
DEIMLER:
What is required? Well, we need permission from the shift 2d{
supervisor or foreman.
We've got to wear our TLD or dosimeter, take a 21 dose rate instrument with us, anybody that goes into a high radiation 22 area got to take a radiation instrument with them.
If it's a high 23 "9
333 24 25 i
i
39 1.
l radiation area, once we've established that the area is, say, an r per 2'
l hr or greater, we lock the area and the only time we do a survey is if 31 l
somebody wants to go in there for some particular reason.
41 i
e
,YUHAS:
Have you witnessed any violations of health physics procedures 61 yourself? Guys screwing up, not following RWP's, or not following up i
when they go in the high rad area, or anything like that?
8!
9 DEIMLER:
I've witnessed people, for instance, we had a guy compacting 10 trash, supposed to be wearing a respirator, well, he was caught not 11 wearing a respirator, not by us, he was caught by one of you people, 12' one of the NRC, and he got a pretty good reaming out for that by the 13 Company, and by us.
I myself...
14!
I 15:
YUHAS:
I'm thinking preNRC days, I'm thinking preincident when we were 16l around here like flies.
What I'm getting at is...
17!
l 18!
DEIMLER:
The people more or less listened to what we told them and you 19l know, things were lax, you know, I don't kncw.
Sure, there was probably...
i 20!
I myself didn't witness any that I recall right now.
I mean,...
I 21' 22 "9
334
~
23 241 25!
I, I
{
40 l'j YUHAS:
What I'm getting at, is you know you have a procedure called HP 2I 1
violations, where if a guy's got a problem, he can go to the foreman just to make him aware that he violated and RWP requirement, or something 4!
like that.
i 51 6
DEIMLER:
Well, I recall, back a couple of months ago there were some 7
people working up in the Unit I spent fuel area and.were required to 8
wear anti-C clothing in the area and they came back down and _tried to 9
monitor out and found out that they were contaminated, their hands and 10 stuff like this, and found out later that they didn't follow the RWF 11 and were written up.
And I wrote a guy up one day for not going treough 12 the monitors, a catalytic boss, he was told about it and he did i.t 13 again, and I wrote him up.
I'm not afraid to write up the violation 14 notices, I don't care who it is.
15!
I 16l YUHAS:
Have a break in tape at this point?
i 17!
18l MARSH:
Yes, I think we're at a break plan, and going to terminate this 19!
tape, the time being 2:31, reading 902 on the meter.
I 20!
21 MARSH:
The time being 2:31, we're going to resume and Greg, I thing 22 you were in the process of still asking some questions.
23 24 on9 335 i
25i i
l l
l
I a
41 l'
l f2Aj:
After you make an HP violation sheet up, is there corrective 2f action taken?
Is management responsive to those?
31 4!
DEIMLER:
I really don't know for sure, I think that they do have a Sf talk with the person the first time, depending on who it is.
That's 0
one thing that our cepartment needs a little bit more of too, is some authority, being able to do something to somebody that doesn't listen 0[
to what we tell them.
We're there to protect them.
9l 10 YUHAS:
Is there any group of individuals or single individual that i
11 persistantly does not take your advice or your recommendations involving 12 health and safety issues?
13 I
14 DEIMLER:
None that I can re111y recall.
I mean, we have some pecple I
15!
that no matter how you tell them to dress or whatever, it seems like 16!
they always get contaminated somehow.
I mean there's just some people 17 you can have them wrapped in poly, with nothing showing, and somehow
)
18i they get contaminatea.
l 19i l
20l YUHAS:
Is the health physics staff, is it subservient to the cperations 21; staff? Do you do what operations tells you whether you think its 22 consistent with the health physics prefaces or nct?
23 1
24 "9'336 25j r
t
[
i
42 1
j DEIMLER:
I can't speak for the rest of the people in the department.
2' I myself try and make some decisions.
If I think what operations wants 3
us to do is against the procedure or wrong, I tell them.
I let them 4
know.
I won't make out an RWP for a job for somebody to do that I 5
don't think is safe.
Things like that.
Now this is some of the things 0
that's gotten me into trcuble, I've been wrong, but at the time I 7
thought I was right, and, I've caught hell for it.
A lot of things, if 8
we make a decision, like for instance if we try and keep control over 9
RWF's, doses of people using the RWP's, having the RWP's signed off 10 when the jobs are completed, and we were told if, say, for instance, 11 one particular department has a bunch of outstanding RWP's, shut them 12l off.
Don't give them any more until they come down and sign them.
It 13 would only take them a couple of minutes.
Well, I've exercised that, 14 and my foreman, I'd call him and say, hey such and such has X amount of IN!
RWP's that need signed off.
How about if we call them up and ask them ld!
to come down and sign them and tell them that we're not going to give i
17 them any more until we get them signed.
Try and be diplomatic about it l$!
and everything.
Well, right off well, who are you? We're going over 19f your head.
I'll just go to your foreman.
Well, next thing you know, 2b the supervisor or somebody calls back and well just go ahead give him 21 an RWP, I mean we don't get any backing.
And a lot of the guys, and 22 myself included, were getting to the point were, hey you know, were 23 aren't going to make any decision, you know, things like this, I mean.
24 o n.g 25i i
I f
43 1
YUHAS:
Do you have an adequate supply of HP instruments available?
2!
3 DEIMLER:
No. Not, we didn' t have prior to the accident, we got quite a i
4';
few instruments from all over the world, I believe, since the accident 5
but a lot of this stuff has been disappearing and I don't you know 6
sometime I think its being compacted in trash barrels or something, I 7
just don't know where its going, respirators, scott air bottles, res-8 pirators, harnesses for this.
9' 10 YUHAS:
Lets talk about pre-incident instrumentation?
11; 12 DEIMLER:
Pre-accident.
We were always short on instruments, they 13 either be broken or people would let them sitting around the plant 14 somewhere, we had to go out and hunt for instruments a lot.
They'd be 15i sitting up in the instrument shop to be repaired for weeks arm ncbody i
-16 :
was doing anything about it.
Until maybe one of our foreman or somebody 17 would get on them.
No, we don't have and we didn't have enough intruments, 18(
portable instruments.
19l 20l YUHAS:
Lets me ask you about kind of equipment, how did you run tritium 21, air samples prior to the incident?
22 23 DEIMLER:
We counted out tritiums on the Packard Tricard which is a 24 scintillation detector.
" 9 338 2s i
i 44 l'
YUHAS:
Was that Packard Tricard in operation, calibrated...?
l 2'
,f DEIMLER:
Prior to the accident, I think it was, I had been broken a 4
couple of times and I think right -before the accident is was broken and 5
I think during, well after the accident we finally got it running 6
again, you had to hand feed it, things like this and we, but the Packard 7
Tricard was a good instrument.
8 9
YUHAS:
How about your...are you familiar with RMA 12 which is the 10 nuclear sample room air sample system?
11 12 DEIMLER:
Yeah I, well, half the time that wasn't in operation.
It was 3
13 always down, something wrong with it.
I've changed particulate and i
14l charcoal filters on it.
Wasn't too reliable.
15; 16:
YUHAS:
How about your area radiation monitoring system, were you ever 17 involved in during the calibration checks on that or anything?
18!
19j DEIMLER:
No, I was never involved in calibrations on them, no.
About t
20l the only thing I ever did with them would be to change out the filters, i
21l counted them, bring the back to the lab and have them counted, gross 22 beta gamma and Ge(Li) counts on them.
23 7 339 24 25 i
i t
l 45 1
j YUHAS:
What did you use for alpha count?
2!
3 DEIMLER:
We had a Ludlum with an alpha probe on it.
It was very 4{
seldom ever counted anything for alpha.
5 6
YUHAS:
What about your Pack 45's?
7 l
8 DEIMLER:
Pack 4S, sounds familiar, I never had the trainng on it.
9 10 YUHAS:
Your inventory records indicate that you have two Pack 4s which 11 you know are hand held alpha scintillation detectors?
12 13 DEIMLER:
If we do I have no icea where their at.
I've never operated 14!
one.
15; 16!
YUHAS:
Who trained you to use the TLD recorder or perhaps I should 17 rephrase that, do you use the TLD reader to read TLDs?
18l l
19l DEIMLER:
We read TLDs, yes, prior to the accident and for a couple of 20 days during the accident.
The training I received on that, I think, 21 the training I received on that was from Bob McCann, the Health Physics 22 Foreman.
" 9 340 23 24 i
25j 1
. l, 46
[
1 l
YUHAS:
Was this on-the-job training or a mechanic just showed you how 2
to work it?
3 4
DEIMLER:
Yes.
5 Gi YUHAS:
Were you given any formal test or asked to read twenty blind 7
badges to make sure you knew how to do it right?
8 9
DEIMLER:
No.
10[
l 11l YUHAS:
You said you read some during the incident?
12, 13 DEIMLER:
I myself didn't.
14 I
15!
YUHAS:
Oh.
16j 17 DEIMLER:
I said people in my department did use the TLD reader to read 1Nl TLDs the first part of the accident.
19 20 YUHAS:
When is a person required to wear a extremity monitor?
21, 22 DEIMLER:
Extremity TLD badges?
In high radiation areas where they are 23 going to be working with their hands in a certain, area, say for instance, 24 when they have a real high radiation level on a pipe or a valve that 2b c'og 34j i
i
47 they going to be working on or the diver when he go into the pool to do 2
some repairs, he gets extremity badges all over his body, head, feet, 3
hands.
4 5
YUHAS:
For this crew you took in the aux building, they were working 6l around sump, do they have extremity monitors on their feet?
7 8
DEIMLER:
No, not that I could remember.
I myself didn't.
9; i
10 YUHAS:
Do you think it would be appropriate, based on the survey 11 numbers that you found?
12, 13 DEIMLER:
I think it would have been a good idea but at the time I 14 didn't, I just didn't think about it.
15l 16l YUHAS:
Is extremity monitors routinely available?
17 18!
DEIMLER:
Yes.
We have quite a few extremity badges.
19f 20 YUHAS:
If you don't have any other comments, I have one additional 21f question and thats it.
22 23 MARSH:
Yes, I have several questions when your done, Greg.
24; i
""9 342 251 I
(
I
48 1!
YUHAS:
The additional question that I have is, is there any reason for 2
you to believe that some individuals may have deliberately percipitated 3
or may had have taken actions that might have aggrevated the incident 4'
that occurred at the TMI2 on March 28 of this year?
5 DEIMLER:
No, I can't think of anyone.
No, I can't think of anyone.
7 8
YUHAS:
Thank you.
9 10 MARSH:
I have one last question to ask.
I still have one or +.wo 11 though all...these are relative gentle questions, more in being specific 12!
in a technical sense, but in preparation for this interview have you 13 coached or advised by the Company in any way as to what to say and what 14 not to say to us?
15!
t 16[
DEIMLER:
The only contact I had with the Company as far as this interview 17 is concerned is...my supervisor and my foreman today, told me what time 18 I was suppose to be down here.
No, they didn't coach me in any way.
19!
No.
i 20 21 MARSH:
Had you been advised on your earlier appointments.
22' 23 DEIMLER One.
D "' C) 3 4 }
24 25 e
I f
.g 49 1
MARSH:
As I indicated in the beginning of this tape, before we went on 2
tape, this interview is a matter between you and the NRC.
Should you 3
receive any pressure, I would like to be made known of it.
I gave you 4
a business card with my name and my number on it, this is a matter of 5
official business between us and you should not receive any pressure.
6l Lastly, one other question and because I ask it do not feel that I have 7
evidence indicating that this has taken place, I do want to cover all 8
bases.
Due to the coincidence that the event occur on March 28 which 9
just happened to be the one year from the date the plant went operational 10 have you heard or do you have any knowledge directly or indirectly of 11:
any plans for a party or celebration in the course of that evening that i
12l may have been going on?
13 14!
DEIMLER:
None that I know of.
I 15:
16 MARSH:
I have no other questions, Gre, do you have any?
I 17 18l YUHAS:
No.
19f 20l MARSH:
Walt we'll once again open the mike for comments from you, if 21 you have anything else that you want to put on the record?
22 "9
344 23 24 5
25' l
l
+
50 1
DEIMLER:
Nothing other than I hope maybe the NRC or you, somebody 2'
might be able to help Arty Partlow for getting some technicians, as far 3
as getting some authority ar.d possibly some more training and possibly 4
even splitting the departments again like it was.
You know, chemistry 5
people and health physics people, you combine the two and well, if we 6
ever get Unit 2 back on the line, we be back in the same boat again, we 7
don't have enough people, we can't get any training, they say they 8
don't have time to give us the training, they got us working you know, 9
I myself at the present time, I'm on light duty but a lot of the guys 10 are getting tired of working ten, twelve hours a day, seven days a 11 week, we get more people to help us?.
Thats about it, really.
12 13 MARSH:
We appreciate your candor and your confidence in talking to us 14; and I assure you that everything that goes on this tape is going to b'e i
15j listened to many times and were going to try and profit in a lot of 16 different ways and learn lessons from it, so all of us are going to be 17 evaluating it and taking a pretty close look at it.
Just in closing 18 let us again say thank you for your time and we appreciate you coming 19]
in and talking with us.
20 21 YUHAS:
Now if theres any other question the time being 6:42 p.m. we're 22 going to terminate the interview of Walter Deimler at this time, the 23 meter reads 272.
nnh 343 24 25 I
i i