ML19248C594
| ML19248C594 | |
| Person / Time | |
|---|---|
| Issue date: | 06/14/1979 |
| From: | Gilinsky V, Hendrie J, Kennedy R NRC COMMISSION (OCM) |
| To: | |
| References | |
| REF-10CFR9.7 NUDOCS 7907030410 | |
| Download: ML19248C594 (43) | |
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C O: 0 1I S S I O:1 DET U R"I::.iTIO:i RPGARDI:;G PUDLIC DISCLOSURE Ch'DE R T!C GO'/E P'.: 1. T I:J T!IE SU:;SIII::E ACT OF:
Discusaion of Taraour February 15, 1979 Pursuant to the Cc:rmis sion 's regulations implementing the Go va rnn.an t in the Sunshine Act (10 CPR 9.10 3 (d) ), the Co.Tais s io n, on the advice of the Gencral Counse.1, de te rni neri that the attached portions of the subject c'_eting record, a t ra n.; c r ip t, should be made available to the public.
Ine remaining portions have been withheld fron public disclosure as no ted belc*.":
Page/Line through Page/Line Examption 3/20 3/24 10 C?R 9.10 4 (a) (1) 4 'l 4/2 10 CFR 9.104 (a) (1) f 1
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p' y '1' m d'
'L S,!
i Sanuel J.
Chilk i
Secretary of the CcTaissiva At t achmen t:
Trans cri s t 2B,,
055 1 9 t N M y't y
>A RICge h
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[,'g@f p Transcript of Proceedings 4,N
/ NUCLEAR REGULATORY COMMISSION DISCUSSICri OF L"GAPUR (Closed to Public Attendance)
Februn'y 15, 1979 Pages 1 - 41 Prer 1 red by:
C. H. Brown Office of the Secremry 2 8 2 o fi 6
j 1
1 UNITED STATES OF~ AMERICA 2
l NUCLEAR REGULATORY COMMISSION 3
DISCUSSION OF TARAPUR 4
(Closed to Public Attendance) 5 I
6 Commissioner's Conference Room 1717 H Street, N.W.
7 Washington, D.
C.
8 Thursday, February 15, 1979 9
10 The Commission met, pursuant to notice, at 1:47 p.m.,
11 Joseph Hendrie, Chairman of the Commission, presiding.
12 PRESENT:
13 Chairman Hendrie 14 Commissioner Gilinsky 15.
Commissioner Kennedy 16 Commissioner Bradford 17 Commissioner Ahearne 18 ALSO PRESENT:
19 S. Chilk L.
Bickwit 20 H.
Shapar C.
Stolber 21 J. Becker R.
Burnett 22 J. Shea G. Oplinger 23 T.
Sherr J.
Devine 24 J.
Fouchard 25 282 057
2 1
PRO'CEED INGS 1
i CHAIRMAN HENDRIE:
If we could come to order.
3 The Ccmmission mets this af ternoon to discuss the I
Tarapur Export License, No. 1222.
5 I think the first thing I would like to do is to make 6
a report to you, and the second thing I would like to _do is 7
talk something about procedure, and to review some of those 8
procedural matters.
i 9
The progress report has to do with a telephone call 10 I got about lunch time from Tom Pickering, the Assistant 11 Secretary of State with whom we deal on these matters.
Mr.
l 12 Pickering han been recently in India, last Thursday and Friday, l
13 having conversations with high Indian officials on matters 14 related to these exports, and the problems of coming to agreements 15 that are in conformance with the Non-Proliferation Act, and he 16 called me to reflect some discussion that has gone on in his 17 bureau in State, since he got back over the weekend, along the 18 line that the proposed safeguards committee may, in the long 9
run, turn out to be less effective as a means of dealing with 20 scme of the differences between India and the U.S., than had 21 been thought, and that perhaps more continued or increased 22 emphasis in bilateral negotiations would produce a better 23 result.
He does not ccmmunicate this as a decision of the 2
Department of State, but said he was aware that we were meeting 25 these days on the Tarapur license, and wanted to communicate to 282 058
3 1
me that at least this tliought was around there.
2 ll I understand Mr. Christopher will be going out at i
3 i
the end of this month, and the negotiations will continue.
I I
4 Mr. Pickering was very strong and reiterated several times the 5
fact that in communicating, trying to keep us up to date on the 6
progress of their thinking that this had not in any way affected 7
their views as to enc desirability and merits of the 1222 license application, and he also said they had specifically 8
9 discussed and thought about that aspect.
10 So I tell this to you for information and _rou will have 11 to make your own assessment of what it means and to that end, 12 I suppose individual Commissioners could call Pickering, if you 13 wanted.
He suggested that because. it did not reflect any sort of 14 policy decision at this point that he felt it was probably 15 premature for a briefing, although, obviously at a mutually 16 agreeable time, why, he would be glad to come and talk to us.
17 COMMISSIONER KENNEDY:
Did he -- Excuse me.
18 CHAIRMAN HENDRIE:
Okay.
That's the end of my report.
19 I thought I ought to let you know.
f 20 CCMMISSIONER KENNEDY:,
i 21 22 23 24 25 CHAIRMAN HENDRIE:
No.
282 Uq Mrc i
r 4
COMMISSIONER KENNEDY:(l 1
2 3
CHAIRMAN EENDRIE: He didn't offer any word on the I
subject and I didn't ask him.
5 COMMISSIONER KENNEDY: Well, this is just for the 6
record, because the statement has been made, and of course, is 7
a part of life in the world as it is.
8 Is the staff aware of any -- Did anybody make any 9
calls on this?' Were they aware of this at all?
10 MR. DEVINE:
I expect, sir, it refers to Vance's 11 letter to the Chairman in late December.
12 COMMISSIONER KENNEDY: That was the basis?
13 MR. DEVINE:
I think so..
14 COMMISSIONER KENNEDY: Good.
15 CHAIEGGS EENDRIE:
Okay, now as to procedural matters.
16 We talked briefly at an agenda session several days L7 ago about the procedural aspects here. - I have told you that it 18 seems to me that opinions are becoming sufficiently well crysM11ized 19 so that we could come to a division of the house and find out 20 which way the Gene.al Counsel ought to be draf ting an order I
21 to represent the majority view in the case.
I 22 The suggestion last time was -.there was discussion 23 in that context about what we should do then and the thought 24 was
-- one thought was expressed that we would look at the 25 crder draft language, exchange opinion drafts and one thing or 282 060
5 1
another.
I'm not sure,' on further reflaction, that that is likely to be as productive an avenue as I might have thought 3
once.
I'm not sure that everyone's willing to trade draf t opinions and it appears to me that ---
5 COMMISSIONER GILINSEY: Who isn't?
6 CHAIRMAN HENDRIE:
Well, I think there have been some 7
expressions about past experience that don't encourage people
~
8 to want to do it this time.
9 It seems to me that we are well advanced With the 10 discussion and the arguments in the case.
The situation has 11 been enhanced considerably since our last meeting, why numerous 12 writings which have come to all the Commissioners.
I am delighted 13 to find that on occasion I'm getting critiques of papers before 14 I get the papers, and I look forward, if we were to go much i
15 longer to getting rebuttal to critiques before the critique, 16 which in turn would be before I'd get the pape.r.
L7 Any way, I admire the speed of response very much 18 and the arguments are useful in developing the points of view.
19 It does seem to me that we are well along in that 20 process and that it might be desirable to go ahead and take a 21 division of the house, ask the Counsel's office to then begin 22 to draft as rapidly as he can, an order reflecting the majority 23 view, presuming there is a majority view and then look forward 24 to a time when individual opinions of Commissioners can be 25 combined with that order and produced.
282 061
g i
l What I would suggest to you is that a final and 2
formal, if you will, vote on the matter could be in the nature i
3 of an affirmation vote on the majority order, and that at such l
4 time as that vote was scheduled, which would be when the majority j 5
had agreed on the order language, that we would look and see. if I
6 individual Commissioners expect to have such comments as they 7
might want to make in hand by that time, and I would try to 8
schedule that affirmation.to take account of the time that 9
people need to' gather their invididual thoughts together.
10 COMMISSIONER BRADFORD: I'm a little puzzled, and I ' m 11 concerned as well by one aspect of this.
12 Wher. we agreed to circulate opinions, I thought we did --
13 that was certainly fine with me.
I haven't been shy about.
14 circulating opinions up to now, and certainly whoever writes 15 a majority opinion will be able to shape whatever they have to 16 say in response to the points that have been on my mind.
17 I would like, before writing any final opinion in 18 the case, to have had a chance to see what others have to say.
19 COMMISSIONER AHEARNE: Tha t's fine with me.
20 COMMISSIONER GILINSKY: That's the uay it has been done 21 before.
22 COMMISSIONER KENNEDY:
Not exactly.
23 COMMISSIONER GILINSKY:
Well, you know you are 24 referring to the previcus Tarapur vote.
25 COMMISSIONER KENNEDY:
No.
I'm referring to three 282 062
7 1
occasions.
2 COMMISSIONER GILINSKY: Well, let's pick up ---
3 COMMISSIONER KENNEDY:
I'll put them all on the 4
record, okay?
5 COMMISSIONER GILINSKY: Well, let me ask you which.
6 three occasions.
~
7 COMHISSIONER KENNEDY:
I'll put the 'three occasions all 8
on the record.
Delighted.to do so.
9 I recall a Tarapur matter and I recall reading in the 10 press a reasonably accurate account, that there were 11 draf ts 11 circulated as one rebuttal followed another in an endless process, 12
. terminated only because some Commissioners were exhausted in 13 continually rewriting everything to take account of yesterday's 14 rebuttal.
15 I don' t intend to go through that process.
16 COMMISSIONER GILINSKY:
Well, I don't either.
17 COMMISSIONER KENNEDY: Secondly, -- Good, I'm delighted 18 to hear that, and I hope that that's very clear on the record.
19 Secondly, I recall another Tarapur matter in which 20 precisely that was suggested and at this table I was overruled 21 because it was a little late, the other opinion having been --
22 having reached a stage of -- in the dissemination, that to stop 23 it would have caused perturbations since it actually was on 24 the table.
25 COMMISSIONER GILINSKY:
No, that wasn -be point.
282 063
s 8
1 The point was ---
2 l
COMMISSIONER KENNEDY:
Well, that certainly was the 3
point and that was the only point.
4 COMMISSIONER GILINSKY:
May I just say something 5
about it?
6 COMMISSIONER KENNEDY:
You may if you wish,of course.
7 COMMISSIONER GILINSKY: Well, the past practice has 8
been ---
9 COMMISSIONER KENNEDY: No. Past practice has been 10 whatever certain Commissioners wanted it to be.
And I'm telling 11 you -- it doesn't make any difference to me what you do, I have 12 no intention of circulating a draft of my opinion until it is 13 written and final and ready to be issued, at which point, 14 everybody will get it.
15 I want the third one on the record.
We followed 16 precisely that procedure in Seabrook, you will recall, with our 13 full agreement.
Only af ter I lef t town with that understanding, 18 was my opinion then rebutted and in a way that had some slight 19 tinge.of inaccuracy.
And I have no intention of either 20 rebutting inaccuracy or submitting myself to it.
21 COMMISSIONER GILINSKY: Well, let me take up the i
22 Tarapur matter.
23 COMMISSIONER KENNEDY: Feel free.
24 COMMISSIONER GILINSKY: The practice has been, or let's 1
25 say it was before that, to have the vote at the time opinions --
282 064 a
9 1
Let me turn it around. ---
2 COMMISSIONER KENNEDY: That repre.sents 1 and 2.
3 Which is the one which shows the trend?
It 4
i COMMISSIONER GILINSKY:
Okay.
Wiell, the vote and the 5
opinions being released went together, andi the significance of 6
it was that when the vote is released peop].e have a reasonable 7
right to have the notion as to wby you voted that way.
8 COMMISSIONER KENNEDY: Why did we then change it?
9 COMM'ISSIONER GILINSKY:
I would thave b'een' happy to 10 delay a vote.
The point is that we had a wote and ---
11 COMMISSIONER KENNEDY: Who calledi out for the vote?
12 COMMISSIONER GILINSKY: Well, ah ---
13 COMMISSIONER KENNEDY: Those whose opinion had been 14 written.
15 COMMISSIONER GILINSKY:
I don't Iknow about that.
16 COMMISSIONER KENNEDY:
Those who) were participating 17 in the discussion which was leading, presurmably, to the 18 decision of the Commission, but having alrteady written it.
19 COMMISSIONER GILINSKY: Wall, it swas the ---
20 COMMISSIONER BRADFORD:
But it h'ad also been circulated 21 for several days before the meeting.
22 COMMISSIONER KENNEDY:
Never.
I' had not seen it.
23 It may have been circulated to some.
Inde3ed, I had the 24 distinct im ression it may well have been,, but not to me.
25 COMMISSIONER GILINSKY: As I renc2mber, it was your 282 065 i
10 1
insistence on taking a vote in public on this matter.
2 CO!Oi!SSIONER KENNEDY: Exactly as it remains my 3
insistence here.
4 CO?e1ISSIONER GILINSKY: In that case, I thought it 5
entirely appropriate to release opinions along with the vote, 6
and I didn' t think that that broke with past practice.
7 Now, what did break with past practice was the fact that 8
we did not delay the vote.until we had the opinions prepared and 9
exchanged.
I think the proper way to do 'it is, in fact, for 10 Commissioners to prepare their views, to exchange them, 'and 11 then vote on the matter.
12 COMMISSIONER KENNEDY:
I assert that we are free to 13 do this, I intend to write my opinion, and when it is ready for 14 issuance, I will issue it, along with the majority opinion of 15 the Commission, whatever it may be, whether I am part of the 16 majority or othewise.
And when that issue is ready to be issued, 17 my opinion will be appended to it.
18 Anyone wishes to follow that, to rebut it, is free to 19 do so on the public platforms of the nation.
I couldn't care 20 less, but I am not going to sit here and go through a four-month 21 exercise, to be terminated only when I believe it is terminated 22 leaving town and having it then resumed while I'm not available 23 to do it.
I'm not going to go through that again, ever.
2.;
COM'i!SSIONER GILINSKY :
Let me remind you that this 25 exchange of 11 draf ts was not at my insistence, it was at the 202 066
l'1 1
Chairman's and the Commission.
At the time, it didn' t want 2
to go out with their opinion until they felt they h:ad fully 3
rebutted my views each time, and it was only ---
4 COMMISSIONER KENNEDY:
Well, that is a matter of 5
perception, depending on which side of the writing you were on.
6 COMMISSIONER GILINSKY:
We can.
go out swith your 7
majority opinion anytime you wanted, you didn't wan:t to do it, 8
but anyway, that's ancient history.
9 COM ISSIONER KENNEDY: Well, I've stated m_'y view, and 10 insofar as I know, the Commission's rules do not rec;uire that I 11 circulate my opinion.
And if I choose to do so I wd'l.- and if 12 I choose not to do so, I will not.
13 COMMISSIONER BRADFORD:
I should certainliy indicate 14 that I certainly don' t recollect the Seabrook. opinicon in that 15 way, but this isn' t the place to discuss it.
16 COMMISSIONER KENNEDY: Recollection is dif-ferent.
The 17 record is clear.
18 CHAIRMAN HENDRIE:
It does continue to setem to me that 19 in the circumstances the course most likely to prodluce an 20 expeditious termiration is to move today to what I"11 ca 1 a 21 preliminary counting of hands so that we can instrmet che Counsel 22 in which direction to shape an order, assuming ther e is a 23 majority, and then to schedule an affirmation vote,, a public 24 affirmation vote for that order as soon as I can foresee when 25 the majority side is agreeing on its language, and at the same time i
282 067
12 1
ask the other Commissioners whether they will have any separate 2
i opinions ready by the time of that affirmation.
3 COMMISSIONER GILINSKY: You do not foresee. allowing 4
some opportunity for reflecting the majority views, whatever 5
they are?
6 CHAIRMAN IENDRIE: I would thirA that we would all get the 7
drafts from the Counsel.
I don' t see any objection to that.
8 COMMISSIONER GILINSKY:
I see what you mean.
9 COMMISSIONER AHEARNE:
I wasn't a participant in any 3.0 of these previous issues and ---
11 COMMISSIONER KENNEDY: You may count yourself. fortunate.
12 I'm trying to assure thi.t you are not involved in 13 another one.
14 CHAIRMAN HENLRIE:
Let me stick that last word in, 15 John, before you speak.
16 I was going to sy -- if I'm able to get myself on 17 paper any time before zero hour, why, I will be glad to i
18 circulate and will circulate to you the stages of my draf ting i
19 as I get it prepared, and would be glad to see the direction in l
20 which yours are going and Dick prefers not to circulate his, 21 and I guess that's his privilege.
22 John?
23 COMMISSIONER AHEAME:
Well, as I was going to say, 24 I er. fully prepared to vote this af ternoon, I came here prepared 25 to vote.
I have some rough draf ts of my arguments and I will have 282 068
8 13 1
it, I think, ready to distribute on Tuesday in draft, and I 2
- l have no problem with distributing it as a draf t version.
I am 3
prepared to vote.
4 COMMISSIONER BRADFORD:
I have no difficulty with a 5
tentative -- -I don' t think I would call it a vote -- but a 6
tentative indication of views which you suggested, but it does 7
seem to me and obviously in this case it is desirable to be 8
expeditious as well, but it does seem to me, in the interest 9
of producing sound Co==ission opinions, that it is well for 3.0 a full an opportunity for comment -back and forth on draf ts as 11 possible to take place.
I mean, the Supreme Court would never 12 consider issuing an opinion without full circulation, and I 13 would guess that 11 draf ts would fall far short of their 14
, record.
I'm not suggesting that we emulate it, but it wouldn' t 15 surprise me at all to have a document go back and forth several 16 time to take into account different arguments and different 17 re'_ lections of positions.
18 Now, in this case, one has to balance the need to 19 act expeditiously with the need to have a good document, but I 20 wouldn't come down entirely on the side of expedition.
21 CHAIRMAN HENDRIE:
Well, of us, you have been 22 particularly active ---
23 COMMISSIONER BRADFORD:
There is that as well, I 2.;
feel singularly exposed at this point.
25 CHAIRMAN HENDRIE:
-- in geting some things in writing 282 069
I 14 1
for which, I must say, it is helpful to get them done.
2 COMMISSIONER AHEARNE:
I would just -- another comment --
3 mention that I don' t know whether this case will be like other instances, but it appears that of my experience in the Government, 5
the ability of this organization to withhold to itself any 6
actions is not as effective as other organization I have been 7
in.
So I would expect that after a vote it ---
8 COMMISSIONER FENNEDY: Oh, I think it will be kept clean 9
until tomorrow' morning, only because the other papers. have gone 3.0 to press already.
11 COMMISSIONER BRADFORD:
Well, there's always the 12 radio.
13 (Laughter) 14 l
CHAIRMAN HENDRIE:
That raises the question again, 15 which I suggested to you last time as to whether on balance -
16 I don't know whether to put it in the sense that it creates an L7 equal opportunity for all leakers or seekers of information or 18 whatever, but I think it is worth thinking again about whether 19 a simple one or two sentence statement on behalf of the 20 Cc= mission wouldn' t be -- af ter we knew where it goes --
21 wouldn' t be the best thing to do.
22 COMMISSIONER GILINSKY:
Well, however remote the 23 chances, one of the purposes with exchanging views is that one 24 cr another person's views may change.
You may not end up --
25 well, you may not change entirely, but ycu may change in part, 282 070 I
h 15 1
you may qualify your views ---
COMMISSIONER KENNEDY:
Until the last Tarapur meeting, 3
I would have thought that had some merit as an argumlent.
But indeed, I would think in principle that ought to be true, but 5
when one comes to the table for a two-hour discussion and then 6
at the end of the discussion, hands out a 40-page opinion already 7
printed, one wonders what the purpose of the, discussion was, 8
except as sort of a Commission briefing in the interest of 9
making it easier for people to read the document.
I mean, 3.0 really.
11 COMMISSIONER GILINSKY:
Well, as I remembe:r, you were 12 unwilling to have meetings on the subject among oursel.ves.
U COMMISSIONER KENNELY:
I did not want priwate meetings, 14 because I don' t believe private meetings is the way -the 15 Commission ought to do its business.
16 I think the purpose of the Sunshine law was precisely 17 to insure that the public knew what the Commission was doing 18 when it was doing its business.
I contend that that is the 19 reason for the sunshine law and I suppc et it.
20 COMMISSIONER GILINSKY:
Well, I support it too.
But 21 at any rate ---
22 COMMISSIONER KENNEDY:
The only differencte is I vote 23 far-it, 24 COMMISSIONER GILINSKY: Well, I think the Congress votes 25 282 0?1
16 1
~
for it, but at any rate ---
2 i
CO.M SSIONER KENNEDY: I vote for its application.
3 CO.M SSIONER GILINSKY:
-- it seems to me that 4
-' a co=missioner may go from voting for to concurring or something 5
like that.
I think it is true that it may be difficult to 6
keep this information from getting out, but I think, just as in 7
an adiudicatory case one might have in dcmestic licensing, it 8
seems to me that the proper way for the Comm nsion to work is 9
to get its views together and then announce them, you.know, when 10 they have been bounced back and forth.
That's part of the point 11 in having a Cor=nission.
12 MR. STOIBER:
If I may point out one procedural aspect 13 which may bear on this under the Non-Proliferation Act.
14 If you vote, for example, to deny the license then 15 that triggers the Presidential referral, and under the Act, 16 you must submit your views and your decision to the President 17 at the same time that the license is forwarded.
18 Of course, on the other side, if you approve-the 19 license there is no further legal operation.
However, you may 20 want to consider whether or not there is some usefulness in 21 having a parallel procedure of both of those sides.
22 COMMISSIONER GILINSKY:
I don't follow you.
Parallel 23 being ---
24 MR. STOIBER:
Parallel being, I guess ---
25 CHAIRMAN HENDPIE: Do you mean the practice of letting 282 c72 k
l 17 1
individual comments and ' opinions be published at the same time 2
i as the order -- as the majority decision order?
3 MR. STOIBER: Right.
CHAIRMAN HENDRIE:
I must say, I think there is merit 5
in it, but I continue to wender whether -- you know -- sort of 6
trying to guess what the probability of maintenance of 7
confidentiality for another week and a half might be against the --
8 if it is going to breach -- against the benefits of having 9
a simple statement that said -- I don' t know -- I would'suggest 10 something just along the lines that an initial division of 11 the Commissa.on indicates majority in f avor of "X"
12 COMMISSIONER AHEARNE:
What is an initial --
13 CHAIRMAN HENDRIE:
It doesn't strike you?
14 COMMISSIONER AHEARNE:
No.
15 CHAIRMAN HENDRIE:
All right.
16 COMMISSIONER GILINSKY: Well, you either have a vote L7 or you don't, John.
And this is either a vote to which you 18 are held or it isn't, and if it isn't then I don't think it ought 19 to be announced.
20 CHAIRMAN HENDRIE:
Yes, it could be not announced.
21 COMMISSIONER GILINSKY:
Well, I don't know.
You can 22 experiment.
23 (Laughter) 24 CCFJIISSIONER 3RADFORD :
Just label it a non-binding 25 vote and then the next -- the = cst it can be announced as is a 282 073 I
18
~
1 non-binding vote.
2 COMMISSIONER KENNEDY:
The fact that the Commission 3
is sitting at the table obviates the need for an affirmation.
It E The fcct that the Commission votes sitting at the table is its 5
affirmation.
Isn' t that correct?
What we would not vote subject l
6 to an affirmation of our vote, the vote would have been taken.
7 Isn' t that right?
8 MR. STOIBER:
The mechanics are relevant here also, 9
because when y'ou take a vote, that is an instruction to the 10 staff, and unless you want to say ~ in your vote to instruct the 11 staff not to, in effect, to actually issue the license,.then 12 you have sort of done a very odd thing.
13 CHAIRMAN HENDRIE: Wait, wait.
Say that again?
14 MR. STOIBER:
Taking a vote but do not issue a 15 license, because under the procedures you have establisned, the i
16 Com=ission's vote merely constitutes a recommendation to the l
17 staff that it has decided that the criteria are met and that 18 they can, in fact, send the piece of paper to the Edlow 19 International Company.
So what you would ---
20 CEAIRMAN HENDRIE:
Well, let me tell you what I 21 had in mind for this afternoon.
22 I need some sort of indication so that unless you 23 folks want to prepare two equal and opposite orders, okay, then 24 we could have them here in due time, in a week or so on, I 25 don' t know how we agree en then, since in agreeing on them, why ir 282 074
19 1
nay become clear what th'e vote is.
What I'm looking for is 2
some sort of a straw vote to see which way to direct the 3
order to go Now,having done that, I have said I think we ought, then when the majority side can agree on the language of that 4
i 5
order, that we ought to set a date for a public affirmation.
6 vote, we could just come in and do a regular affirmation, and 7
that vote will be t.he formal vote on the application and the 8
license will issue or not. issue, subject to that circumstance.
9 And in setting' that affirmation time, I would want to,take J.0 account of what individual Commissioners felt they needed as a 11 time to be able to bring their individual comments in final 12 form to the table so they could go with the order as a package.
13 Now, this may not be the. ideal course from a number 14 of points of view, but in view of some of the various opinions 15 exp - ed, it seems to me to be perhaps a practical one for 16 us that we could agree on, and in fact, the only one that strikes 17 me, at the moment, as a practical way to go forward. So now 18 what we are talking about is -.if I could assume for the moment 19 that I can get agreement on that course, what I'm now asking you 20 is whether you want to reconsider the discussion of several 21 days ago about any sort of an anncuncement by the Commission 22 of the direction of its straw vete.
23 COMMISSIONER KENNEDY: What discussion do you refer to?
24 I don't recall any.
25 CHAIRMAN HENDRIE:
There was one at an agenda session 282 075
20 1
the other day where I raised questions about some of these 2
i procedt.ral matters for today.
3 Joe, you want to get your two bits worth in.
4 MR. FOUCHARD:
Yes.
I'll play knmi kaze pilot.
5 At the conclusion of this meeting there are a number 6
of media, including the Indian media, who are going to ask:
Did 7
the Commission vote on the Tarapur license?
It has either got 8
to be, it seems to me, a yes or a no.
Irrespective of if the 9
answer is "yes" then the obvious follow-on question' is :
How J.0 did it go.
11 It seems to me that if the cow" ion is going to 12 vote today on Tarapur, it should announce the results of its 13 vote promptly, af ter notifying the. Executive Branch, Congress, 14 and that should go bing-bing-bing, real close in.
I just
~
15 don' t believe that a straw vote, sir, will hold.
I think a 16 leak in this situation, with the eyes of mwny media, many 17 government agencies, and --
it just shouldn't leak.
It 18 should be handled straight away.
19 CHAIRMAN HENDRIE: Well, that calls for a formal 20 vote on the matter to be announced immediately and without 21 either an order in hand, even ---
22 COMMISSIONER BRADFORD:
Well, not necessarily.
One 23 can also instruct the General Counsel's office to prepare 2;
opinion both ways or to prepare one opinion if cne or more 25 Co=missioners ' want an opinion prepared that way, you don' t have 282 076
i 21 1
to vote at all until lat$er.
It does seem to me that the I
2 question is a significant one.
Is.t possible for this 3
Co= mission to meet, have a tentative indication of views to guide a particular office in preparing a document, without 5
at that point, having had it made public as though it were 6
a final Commission decision.
Things may be relatively clear-cut 7
today, I don' t know about that, but there are going to be' 8
cases in which we are going to want to see what different opinions look 3.ike in writing.
Now, there ought to~ be a way 9
J.0 to do that.
11 COMMISSIONER AHEARNE:
Joe, I have to at least take 12 some exception to you, I think, in that Peter, I think put his 13 finger on the point.
Are you saying that we could never reach 14 a tentative vote without having to therefcxre announce that we 15 have voted?
16 MR. FOUCHARD:
No.
I'm saying that it is unlikely L7 that you can reach a tentative vote in a matter with this much 18 attention being paid to it and have that tentative vote not 19 become public in some way.
20 COMMISSIONER AHEARNE:
We could try.
21 COMMISSIONER BRADFORD :
As I said before, if it is 22 not more than a tentative vote, then that is the most that 23 should become public.
24 COMMISSIOFER AHEARNE:
For example, we have 40 people 25 cr so here, and if it doesn' t work with that, then maybe the next 282 077
22 1
time we could do it with' 6 or 7.
An if that doesn' t work ---
2 (Laughter) 3 If that doesn't work then each of us will write our
~
own opinion, give it to the General Counsel and he will be the 5
one.
6 CHAIRMAN HENDRIE: That's good.
I like that.
7 COMMISSIONER GILINSKY:
Pull them out of a hat.
8 MR. SHAPAR:
Another option of course, is to have two 9
opinions written going in the opposite directions without 10 expressing an opinion as of this time which way anybody wants to 11 go.
It is done that way ir a other agencies, I understand.
12 COMMISSIONER KENNEDY: That's the logical course to 13 follow.
The bulk of the work done. on either side would then be 14 useful in any event.
It would have to be done sooner or later.
15 CHAIR &lN HENDRIE: If that leaves the General Counsel's 16 office either with a spare opinion for or a spare opinion 17 against the license, will that prejudice the consideration of the 18 next license since he will already have -- you know ---
19 MR. BICKWIT:
That was the least of our concerns.
20 KR. STOIBER:
Historically, the way we have prepared 21 these opinions has required a good deal of counsultation with 22 the Commissioners who have voted with the majority, and it 23 seems to me, personally, I guess, because I will be engaged 2.;
in the process, not a very efficient use of our resources to 25 prepare two free-standing separate opinions which we cannet relare 282 078
23 1
to the real votes or the real positions.
2 COMMISSIONER GILINSKY:
Let's see, why can' t they 3
be assigned to different persons.
4
}
MR. STOIBER:
Oh, it can be assigned to different 5
persons ---
6 COMMISSIONER BRADFORD:
I think I see Carl's point.
7 It is the different people they were assigned to that would want 8
to know which Co=missioners they should talk to for input.
9 Of course, they could go from office-to-office and say, are
}.0 you interested in talking to me?
11 (Laughter) 12 COMMISSIONER KENNEDY:
It seems to me that Commissioner 13 Gilinsky conveyed a view that would form the basis of at least 14 one opinion in what seemed to me a reasonable, clear and 15 straightforward sort of note.
I would be prepared to do the 16 same thing which doesn't necessarily commit me to anything, 17 except I'd like to seehthat opinion that said that.
I'd like 18 to see the opinion that is written along the lines that he is 19 talking about.
20 COMMISSIONER GILINSKY:
You'11 see it.
21 CHAIRMAN EENDRIE:
Well, all right, let me see.
22 I'm not sure that I detect consensus at the mcment.
23 What would you ---
2.;
COMMISSIONER AREARNE: Well, as I said, I had come today 25 prepared to vote and that is still what I'm still prepared to do.
282 079
~
24 1
COMMISSIONER GILINSKY:
But, le t ' s s e e, did you ---
2 0
COMMISSIONER AREARNE:
My preference would be to vote, 3
to then direct the General Counsel to attempt to prepare it, 4
to direct Public Affairs to do that which is not unknown in the 5
history of government public af f airs to attempt to keep the press 6
at arms length during that period of time ---
7 COMMISSIONER KENNEDY:
The Defense Department tries 8
that more of ten than most.with a singular lack of success.
9 COMM.kSSIONERAHEARNE:
We know~about the lack of 10 suceess.
11 COMMISSIONER KENNEDY: Oh, yes.
I know about the others 12 too, and their numbers are smaller.
13 COMMISSIONER BRADFORD:
.It was never known as the 14 Defense Commission, however.
15 COMMISSIONER AHEARNE:
See, I'm -
' would prefer 16 to have the General Counsel focus its effc'rts on writing the 17 opinion that they may have to then defend.
18 CHAIEMLN HENDRIE:
Yes.
19 MR. BICKWIT:
That's what I was looking for.
20 COMMISSIONER KENNEDY:
That's looking for the easy way.
21 (Laughter) 22 COMMISSIONER AMEARIC:
I recognize the General 23 Counsel staff is uniformly of high quality, I assume though, 2.;
that there might be seme ---
25 COMMISSIONER BRADFORD:
It's a good theory, John, b:
282 030
'25 i
1 its applicability here is limited by the fact that there is no 2
one who is standing to appeal, except, of course, the 3
applicant.
4 COMKISSIONER AHEARNE:
I would imagine that the --
5 other than if the ---
6 CHAIRMAN HENDRIE:
Can' t these things go to court?
7 COMMISSIONER BRADFORD:
I thought the NNPA left the 8
the intervenors without a. standing to get into court.
9 COMMISSIONER AHEARNE: Well, if 'there is n'o reason for the 10 order that the General Counsel prepares to say other than yea or 11 nay, then that's very straightforward and doesn't have to work at 12 all on it.
If there is a reason for a lot of work to go into it 13 then I'm the one that is going to have to be defended, putting 14 aside where it is going to have to be defended.
15 MR. GPLINGER:
Would it help at all if each of the 16 Commissioners were to express the direction in which he is 17 leaning now, but specify that he is not prepared to sayg inal f
18 where he comes out at this point.
19 COMMISSIONER KENNEDY:
I'd rathe-not read about that 20 tomorrow.
21 CHAIRMAN HENDRIE:
Well, that's the sort of testing of 22 the water that I had been hoping to come to and then to use that 23 as guidance to the drafters of language here, as well as to us 24 individually since those of us on the minority side are surely 25 going to want to have our opinions published at the time of the 282 081 t
26 i
I 1
order, and even though t.he majority side may want to express n
2 personal views on the matter, but the question of whether or 3
not in so doing we can maintain a reasonable confidentiality for e
4 i such working up the language and exchange of drafts to whatever 5
extent that's possible, that is one of the questions before us.
5 The suggestion is that if you take any kind of a vote, why it 7
will inevitably become known and I guess sort of the corollary 8
then is that a way to avoid this is to not take a vote and ask 9
the Counsel's office to work on parallel ~ documents with opposite 10 polarities and then come to an affirmation vote.
11 COMMISSIONER KENNEDY:
Let me point out that Crw-issione:
12 Gilinsky and I have always felt strongly, whichever of us in the 13 individual case ---
14 COMMISSIONER GILINSKY:
I want to hear the end of this.
15 (Laughter) 16 COMMISSIONER KENNEDY:
-- We have both felt strongly 17 that the minority should be afforded just as much service from 18 the General Counsel in the preparation of its opinion as the is
=ajority. Whichever one happens to be on is irrelevant.
The fact 20 is that that's where the legal staff is that serves the 21 Co=missioner directly and thus, it seems to me, they are going 22 to have to write two opinions anyway, and the sooner they get at t
23 it the better.
24 COMMISSICNER GILINSKY:
I agree with that.
23 COMMISSIONER AFIAR.9E.
Well, I a uld be most interested 282 082
l 27 I
ir. the opinion that says that we should 12. cense, j
2 Ii COMMISSIONER GILINSKY:
I'd be interested in both.
1 3
COMnISSIONER BRADFORD:
One always focuses harder on l
4 l
what one is going to have to rebut.
5 COMMISSIONER AHEARNE:
That's a lawver speaking, 6
that's not a position.
7 CHAIRMAN HENDRIE:
Other
- Let's see.
I've got two 8
votes for a two-opinion initiative.
9 COMMISSIONER BRADFORD: Well, I'll vote for that.
10 COMMISSIONER KENNEDY:
Well, I vote for that. '
11 COMMISSIONER GILINSKY:
Yes.
12 CHAIRMAN HENDRIE:
Yes, I was counting you and Vic, 13 and now Peter joined in.
I think there is a majority there, 14
~ John.
15 COMMISSIONER AHEARNE:
Well, I've al. ready said the 16 opinion I'd like to see, and cert ' inly General Counsel can prepare 17 any number of opinions, 18 COMMISSIONER KENNEDY:
I take that to have been an 19 expression of confidence in the General Counsel.
20 COMMISSIONR AHEARNE:
Absolutely.
I have high 21 confidence in the General Counsel, as well as other people in 22 the office.
23 CHAIRMAN HENDRIE: As long as there are more of them 24 than there are of us, I guess it is possible to have whatever 25 number of opinions that are required in any given case.
That may 282 003
i 28 l
i 1
work to keep idle hands from getting into mischief or whatever 2
it is that idle hands get into down on the 10th floor, but it 3
seems to me -- All right, I'11 ---
{
(Laughter) 5 CHAIRMAN HENDRIE:
-- I'11 decide we have a Ccmmission --
6 I wouldn' t say necessarily roundly-applauded direction, but it 7
is clear a majority of the Commissioners would prefer, rather than 8
taking
-- me asking for a raising of hands or other indication 9
of a direction here, to ask rou to crank ' forward on' these two 10 directions.
11 COMMISSIONER BRADFORD:
Could I ---
12 CHAIRMAN HENDRIE: Yes, sir.
13 CO."MISSIONER BRADFORD:
Could I ask, it is on a 14
_ separate and much slower track that OGC and maybe OPE and OPA, 15 think a little about Commission adjudicatory ser.sions in 16 general, and the best way in which to shape them with an eye 17 toward. - --
18 CHAIRMAN HENDRIE:
Yes. I think that is a useful
.L comment.
I would just as soon not come to this sort of 20 impass in terms of an axiously awaiting public at unce without 21 the doors and need for some exchange of --
desirability of 22 exchanges and written views, but ncbody -- Commissioners are 23 not going to sit down and write two sets of views, one for 24 and against, and dien at the last minute announce:
"I take
'A'".
25 You are going to write wuat you think and if there is to be a 282 034
29 1
chance for that to happe'n and for any circulation of that 2
1 among us before a formal decisicn is announced, then we have to 3
have a way to protect that process in adjudications.
And I would 4
be interested, indeed, in seeing if we couldn't have a general 5
agreement so that we don't have to patch one together every time 6
we have one of these.
7 COMMISSIONER GILINSKY: I sent a note around, also, 8
suggesting that we have a. version of the legislative analysis that 9
was -- well which we prepared for John, and that a memorandum 'be 10 prepared for the Commission.
If it turns out to be merely a 11 change of addressees so be it, but I thirk that a number of --
12
' Well, if nothing else, Peter has written a memo which I think 13 ought to be taken into account, and my conversations with Len 14 suggest to me that there's more to his memo than meets the eyes, 15 so ---
16 COMMISSIONER KENNEDY:
Maybe less.
17 (Laughtet.
18 COMMISSIONER GILINSKY:
-- Well, no.
I mean, it's 19 COMMISSIONER KENNEDY: Which memo are you referring to.
20 Do you mean the February 13th one?
21 COMMISSIONER GILINSKY:
Yes.
22 COMMISSIONER KENNEDY:
On the legislative history?
23 COMMISSIONER GILINSKY:
Yes.
And I would like to see 24 a memo on that subject addressed to the Ccmmission.
25 COMMISSIONER KENNEDY:
I assumed that although it was 282 035
I 30 1
answering a specific question and was forwarded to all I
Ccnmissioners that any such memo -- I have always assumed that 3
any such memo is to the Commission.
Is that an erroneous 4
assumption?
5 COMMISSIONER GILINSKY:
Well, if nothing else, he -
6 didn' t have a chance to take other views into account.
Now, he 7
may feel that he doesn't want to change a word, !7t he may feel 8
that he wants to, and -- -
9 COMMISSIONER KENNEDY:
I'm lost.
10 COMMISSIONER GILINSKY :
'Well. I'm referring to Peter's 11 memo.
12 COMMISSIONER KENNEDY: Well, he didn' t have Peter's memo.
13 Peter's memo post-dated this memo.-
14 COMMISSIONER GILINSKY:
That's right.
15 COMMISSIONER KENNEDY: It is a critique.
16 COMMISSIONER GILINSKY:
Yes, well, I just think it is 17 an important document and, you know, the General Counsel's 18 memorandum on the legislative --
19 COMMISSIONER KENNEDY:
We are asking the General 20 Counsel's critique of the critique.
Is that what you are asking?
21 COMMISSIONER GILINSKY: Well, I'm asking him to ---
22 COMMISSIONER KENNEDY:
I would urge that, and in fact, 23 if the General Counsel feels that he could do it without greater 24 trepidation than he already suf fe:.s.
25 COMMISSIONSR GILINSKY:
What I'm asking is for the 282 086
31 l
1 Commission to ask the General Counsel to address a memorandum on 2
that subject to the Commission.
If his views haven' t changed at 3
all, and even take into account Peter's memo, then so be it, but 4
if they have and other discussions have -- or if he wants to 5
amplify it or change it or whatever, then I think that ought-to be 6
in there.
7 COMMISSIONER KENNEDY:
I think before he does that, 8
- though, he ought to prepare a full list of the discussees in 9
order that all of the readers can understand the ba~ sis on which 10 hc arrives at his conclusions.
Up to now, my assumption has been, 11 and I think it is correct, that the original memo which he 12 draf ted was draf ted based upon a careful analysis of the record.
13 Now, if we are to introduce into that, a variety of 14 opinion and other things, I think that's fine, but I think that 15 all ought to be carefully footnoted so that one is not making 16 erroneous assumptions about the basis for the judgments and 17 conclusions which are reached in the paper.
Does that make sense 18 to you, Counsel?
19 MR. BICKWIT:
Yes.
I do want to make clear that the 20 memo was produced, as you said ---
21 COMMISSIONER KENNEDY:
There was never a doubt in my 22 mind on that score.
23 MR. BICKWIT:
Yes.
I also think probably it should have 24 some amplification on the discussion between Commissioner 25 Gilinsky and myself that led to the interpretation that there migh-282 087 L
32 1
be more to the memo than met the eye.
COMMISSIONER KENNEDY: No, no.
I did not imply that.
3 Not as to this memo.
What I'm suggesting is that if a new memo 4
is to be done as Commissioner Gilinsky suggests, and I see merit 5
in that, but if it is to go as he suggests, taking into account 6
other discussions and views, the nature of those needs to be 7
rather carefully spelled out so that all the readers know that it 8
is not just the law and the legislative history which has been.
9 taken into account in the writing, but also, views which may have 10 been gleaned from these discussions.
That's all.
I just want 11 to be sure that our scholarship is clear and clean as it can be.
12 MR. BICKWIT:
Would it be simpler --
13 COMMISSIONER KENNEDY:
Oh, I think it would be simpler 14 to just stick to the. facts, of course. That's where I'd begin.
15 MR. BICKNIT:
-- to stick to Co=missioner Bradford's 16 memo.
17 COMMISSIONER GILINSK'l: Well, I think whatever you do 18 ought to be in a memorandum addressed to the Commission as a whole.
19 I mean, it is a ---
20 COMMISSIONER AHEARNE:
I think he certainly meant to 21 address that to the Co= mission as a whole.
22 COMMISSIONER GILINSKY: There is nothing wrong with him 23 addressing a memorandum to a Commissioner, it is j us t --
24 COMMISSICNER KEMEDY:
Let ne assure my colleagues 25 and the General Counsel and anyone else who is interested that 282 088
33 1
whenever I receive a n.Aorandum addrassed to a particular 2
Commissioner, I assume it is intended for me as well as to them.
3 It is addressed to them specifically, only because that 4
individual or those individuals were the ones who speficially 5
asked the question and therefore, are getting a direct reply, 6
but that memoranda, written by the staf f, whoever they may be, 7
to any Commissioner is a memorandum to the Commission.
That's 8
my understanding of the way the Commission functions and I hope 9
it is a general understanding.
Could we agree on that as a 3.0 certain matter of policy?
11 CHAIRMAN HENDRIE:
I think that's clear, sure.
12 COMMISSIONER BRADFORD:
You mean in cases where copies 13 go to all Cmmissioners?
14 COMMISSIONER KENNEDY:
Yes. Well, I assume they do.
15 COMMISSIONER BRADFORD:
I think a.cy do as well, but 16 I guess I can conceive of a situation, let's say an open-door 17 submission where it might not, and that might be a different 18 sort of matter.
19 COMMISSIONER KENNEDY: Right, of course.
20 COMMISSIONER AFEARNE:
But certainly, if there is 21 copy at the bottom.
22 CHAIRMAN HENDRIZ:
Okay, new ---
23 COMMISSIONER AHEARNE:
Joe, what is our schedule then, 2.;
because if we can only vote together and we are not going to be 25 together for more than two weeks, are you suggesting, therefore, w-282 089
34 1
do not vote for two weeks?
2 COMMISSIONER KENNEDY: Well, it isn ' t going to make any 3
difference.
The only import at this juncture of a vote, if I 4
understand it, because someone earlier stated, the only import of 5
a vote at this juncture is an instruction to the staff to issue 6
or not to issue a license.
So if we are not going to do that 7
until ---
What?
8 COMMISSIONER BRADFORD:
It can be done with less than 9
five.
10 COMMISSIONER KENNEDY: Yes.
It could.
It could be done 11 with three.
It would be an interesting sort of exercise which 12 three.
13 COMMISSIONER BRADFORD:
You would want the right three.
14 (Laughter) 15 CHAIRMAN EENDRIE:
You might find a Commissioner to 16 vote against his principles in order to let the will of the 17 majority be done.
18 What about schedule?
Now, you are not going to be here 19 next week and Dick's not going to be here the week af ter.
20 COMMISSIONER GILINSKY:
Well, I'm going to leave 21 Tuesday afternoon, and I will be away, than, for the rest of 22 that week.
23 CHAIRMAN HENDRIE:
You will be back the following week, I4 but you will be gone.
It is going c take a while to put it 23 toge ther.
You are not about to do it instantaneously.
282 090 i
s 35 1
MR. BICKWIT:
Yes. And we have some additional questions of this procedure we thought ought to be raised.
i i
3 What is the Commission's position on the exchange of J draf ts?
We know that the Commission wants two draf ts prepared, t
5 how does it come down on that question?
That's one of our 6
questions.
7 COMMISSIONER KENNEDY:
As to the two draf ts, I assume 8
we will all look at the two draf ts.
9 MR. BICKWIT: I see.
10 COMMISSIONER KENNEDY:
(A), we will decide what we think 11 about each one of them, and then -- (a) -- and then (b) decide 12 what we think about which we would prefer, (a) or (b).
13 COMMISSIONER GILINSKY:
-Now, are they preparing the 14 other drafts beyond that?
I asked them to prepare drafts. *:s 15 that one of these two or is that the third draft?
16 COMMISSIONER KENNEDY: I had asked them to do some ---
17 COMMISSICNER GILINSKY:
-- or is that bracketed material 18 in one draft?
19 COMMISSIONER KENNEDY:
-- I had asked then to do some 20 work for me which would be applicable in either case.
21 COMMISSIONER GILINSKY:
Now, presumably these draf ts,
22 and they are usually written in certain bracketed sections, you 23 ought to incorporate, it seems to me, everything you do, 24 into two draf ts.
20 COMMISSIONER BRADFORD: So far.
282 091
36 1
COMMISSIONER KENNEDY: Well, all I can say to that is 2
" good luck.
3 CHAIRMAN HENDRIE:
I expect there is going to end up 4
being individual expressions --
5 MR. BICKWIT: That's my next question.
6 CHAIRMAN HENDRIE: -- nc matte.r what, and ---
7 COMMISSIONER KENNEDY:
Unless this is to be a genuinc 8
first.
9 COMMISSIONER AHEARNE:
I'm afraid not, Dick _.
Sorry.
3.0 COMMISSIONER GILINSKY: 'Are you talking about five 11 opinions or something?
12 CHAIRMAN HENDRIE:
I was just mulling ---
13 MR. BICKWIT:
There is also the difficulty of whose 14 instructicns to follow in revising these draft.s.
15 (Laughter) 16 COMMISSIONER AHEARNE:
That's right.
He has got -- at 17 that stage, there is a fairly valid point.
If one set of drafts 18 are " yea" and the other set of draf ts are "nay",
I would guess 19 that the people that he ought to be following for the revision 20 to the " yea" are those who are going to vote for the " yea".
21 CCMMISSIONER GILINSKY: The changes of the draf ts takes 22 place in the General Counsel's office.
23 (Laughter) 24 CCMMISSICNER KENNEDY:
Let me just point out that that 25 really was one of the proble'ns which we were having in the first 282 092
37 1
Tarapur exercise.
What was it that people were working on, and 2
i it was never clear, because (a) the dissenter was working upon 3
the majority opinion and would try to say:
"Ch, no, that's wrong. "
4 So the majority would change it, whereupon, the dissenter 5
would then change his dissent, you see, to coincide with the-new 6
draft of the majority.
And it can go on for ever.
So it is not 7
as clear as ---
8 COMMISSIONER AHEARNE:
I think we have found a way 9
never to issue a license or reject it.
3.0 COMMISSIONER BRADFORD : 'In part the answer is that af ter 11 the draf ts are prepared the Commissioners are going to have to 12 meet, to some measures among themselves, and see who agrees with 13 what.
The group at that point faces the difficulty is the majority 14 because their meeting becomes a Sunshine.
So they will have to 15 do it through their assistants and the minority will have no such 16 problem.
17 (Laughter) 18 COMMISSIONER KENNEDY:
You can't sell tickets to a close-19 meeting.
20 CHAIRMAN HENDRIE: By George, that's almost a good reitson 21 to avoid being in the majority.
22 MR. SHAPAR: I would also assume that at any time during 23 the process any one or more Ccemissioners could say that I'll 2.;
draft myself, from this point on.
I think that's really the 25 important thing.
282 093
38 1
CHAIRMAN HENDRIE :
I tell you, since we seem destined 2
to go in this multi-draf ted f ashion, it seems to me that what 3
you try to do is to get up an initial opinion one way and the 4
matching opinion the other way and circulate them and Commissioners 5
will have to focus in on one or another, and Eben I think ---
6 Let me just say for myself that I will not propose 7
to kibitz on the opinion running in a way that I don't propese 8
to vote.
Then I think Ccemissioners leaning each way have to i
9 take the lead 'in either taking over the draf t, or at.least working 10 with the Counsel's staff member who has got that one, to get 11 it perfected.
12
- Now, 13 MR. BICKWIT:
At that point, each Ccmmissioner will 14 make the decision about the further exchange of drafts?
15 CHAIRMAN HENDRIE:
Yes, I think so.
I think once the 16 ccmmissioners, in effect, assume possession, as it were, of the 17 drafting effort, then those that are for circulation will 18 circulate and those that are not for it won' t.
19 MR. DEVINE:
Sir, OPE may be involved margirally in 20 preparing these statements, what issues precisely should be 21 discussed in the two opinions?
22 COMMISSIONER KENNEDY: Those that are relevant.
23 (Laughter) 24 MR. DEVINE: I'm referring now to the issues raised, 25 for example, in the Conmission crder on the oral hearing, the 282 094 1
i 39 1
written hearing.
Fuel need, adequacy, safeguards and things of 2
l that nature.
3 COMMISSIONER KENNEDY:
Certainly any opinion as to 4
' a comment to explore as appropriate, a justification for the 5
view, whether or not the criteria are met, obviously.
That's one.
6 MR. DEVINE:
That, I think, narrows the list of issues 7
to be addressed then.
8 COMMISSIONER AHEARNE: Tuesday, I will give you what I 9
think are the relevant issues and, at lea'st, where I come out on 10 th em.
11 CHAIRMAN HENDRIE:
But, I think, it would seem to me 12 that some attention to the items which we cited, particularly 13 for the oral hearing, or for the comments from people, ought to 14 be covered.
Some note ought to be taken of those meetings.
15 We, af ter all, exercised people and encouraged them to address 16 them, and presumably we had some interest hearing them.
But I 17 think beyond the question of the criteria and those points, 18 then ' rom there on, it think it may depend on what Commissioners 19 want to see in ene side or the other.
20 MR. DEVINE:
Let me ask Ecward a question:
You mentioned 21 that agencies did this normally, preparing two draf ts, the 22 same people in the agencies, Ecward?
t 23 MS. EECKER:
I was the one who told Howard that, but 24 it was structured somewhat differently and the beard would give 23 the General Ccunsel's staff instructions and then a board member 282 095 i
i i
40 f
very of ten the same a'ttorney would p::epare the draft.
2 COMMISSIONER AHEARNE:
Out of curiosity, how, in the 2
absence of the Commissioners expressing what they believe are the important issues and how they come out o# it, how does the 5
General Counsel adopt.the argument that they then agree with. them?
6 MR. BICKWIT:
I think there will have to be some 7
instruction.
It may take place as a back-and-forth methodology.
8 COMMISSIONER BRADFORD:
As one final chilling note, 9
I can't think of any part of this meeting that is withfloldable.
10 (Laughter) 11 CHAIREMI HENDRIE:
I will note tha? the report I made 12 to you from the Department of State, let it be quite clear is 13 classified on the normal basis that internal deliberations to the 14 government in connection with foreign policy matters, National 15 Security Information.
16 Well, I'm not sure we came to where I had hoped we 17
. would come to this af ternoon, but I think we have sort of run la down on this subject.
19 Let me note once again, for the benefit of everybody 20 present that the Co:=nission is attempting to preserve for itself 21 confidentiality until these opinions and orders can be prepared 22 and we can meet in public meeting to t ske a final vote on the 23 Tarapur application.
24 There are institutions in this to in and elsewhere 25 that manage to work in that f ashion with some. success.
I admire 282 096 i
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them for the tradition that they have managed to build among 2
their members and staff and assistants and so on, to preserve that ability of those bodies to work.
I think of the Supreme 4
Court, particularly.
My impression has been that similar 5
efforts here have not been very successful.
Let me ask each'one 6
of you to please accept fcr yourselves a responsibility to help 7
us maintain this confidentiality and to allow the Commission to 8
work in this fashion until it-is ready to come to a public 9
meeting and t e a formal vote.
~
10 Thank yr.u very much.
11 COMMISSIONER BRADFORD:. Well, put.
12 (Whereupon, the Commission meeting was adjourned at 13 2:55 p.m. and the Commission moved on to other business.)
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