ML19220A881

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Transcript of 790404 Closed Meeting in Washington,Dc. Pp 1-41
ML19220A881
Person / Time
Site: Davis Besse, Browns Ferry, Oconee, Arkansas Nuclear, Crystal River, Rancho Seco, Crane  
Issue date: 04/04/1979
From: Ahearne J, Bradford P, Gilinsky V, Hendrie J, Kennedy R
NRC COMMISSION (OCM)
To:
References
NUDOCS 7904250059
Download: ML19220A881 (43)
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{{#Wiki_filter:. }nn=g3pd~P:1, LQb6 2 u a u u :i:a,' NUCLEAR REGULATORY COMMISSION IN THE MATTER OF: BABCCCK & WIICOX PIXITS CLOSED M"TI2TG P Place.- Washingt=n D. C. r Octo - Acril 4, 1979 Pages 1 is nen.: (100) 4 7-3700 ACE - FED F.RAL RE?ORTERS. D*C. W #'"*" 7 9 0 4 E5 0051 il.?C2 LLL Ncrth C::itei Street Wcaningen. C.C. 20001 '? ATICNWICE COVERACE. DAILY

i BACKGROUND INFORMATION As the Three Mile Island situation developed beginning on Wednesday, March 28, the Commissioners met to discuss the nature of the event and scheduled a staff briefing held on March 29 at 9:50 a.m. The emergency nature of this situation at Three Mile Island led the Ccmmission to go into " continuous" session for the duration of the event beginning on the morning of March 30. This meant that whenever a quorum was present, it was part of the continuous session. Because of the nature of these sessions, particularly on Friday, March 30, Satu: day, March 31, and Sunday, April 1, most of the Commission meetir.gs were held outside the Chairman's Conference Room which is equipped with magnetic tape recorders. Part of Saturday's and Sunday's meetings, for example, were at the Incident Response Center at Bethesda. The nature of these meetings was informal and often interrupted. Commissioncrs and staff members came and went as conditions arose. During many of the sessions, multiple conference telephone calls and twoway telephone calls were made and received that were difficult to record and to transcribe. These continuous meetings were for the most part recorded by several portable tape recorders using mini cassettes and regular cassettes. Nonetheless, in the fa'.t moving events connected with this incident, there may have been times when Commissioners discussed matters which were not recorded. The transcripts of the tapes of these continuous sessions, particularly where the meetings were held outside the regular meeting ecom, are a composite of several tapes. For all of the reasons above, these tran-scripts do not represent formal or official Commission statements on the matters discussed therein, nor have they been reviewed or edited by the Commission. (.. .i C

i t i t l e i C23830 1; CCTED STA"ES CF AMER ~CA I 2l NUCLEAR REGUI.ATORT COMSCSSION i i ,i c ce o .<s.==. n. y. a j 4, I I I i i. 3&W PLANTS [ I l 6 i 6 i 7! Rccci 1130 i t 1717 E Street, N. W. i 3 Washingten, D. C. i t 9, Wednesday, 4 April 19 79 i 5:10 p.m. 10 11 i 3"r..s S.r.sI". - i f 12 DR. JOSEPE M. EINDPlE, Chairrian i l 13 ; V CTOR GILINSKY, Cc 3_ssicner i 1.1 i, R CHARD T. KE'CTEDT, Cec =issicner 15 PETER A. SPADFORD. Cc=-d.ssicner t i 16 ! JOEN F. A T 3.2NE, Cc-4ssicner l 1.,, ol,L e. O O O..,...c. e s.4.. i is ' Se. Chil%, I.

Case, D.
Eisenhut, L, 3ickwic, J.
Iavis, N. Mcseley, G. Mazucan, R.
Pine, E. Jcrdan, R.
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Ra -J.b urn, J. Austin, D.

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F PROCEID INGS i.: 2 8,, (5:10 c.m.) is 3 0 i CHAIR".AN EENDRII: Len, this may have a slightly, i, .; i a-j different character than the meetings, the continuing' 5. series of closed meetings delaing with the Three Mile Island 6 i l oc.erational situation. I expect it's erobably ac. c. ropriate 7 to ask for a vote to held a short-notice meeting, and than a l 8 vote to close a meeting delaing with adjudicatory matters i .t 9 I connected with the Three Mile -- with the other S&W plant i 10 l licensees. I' 11 ! If it is an Exemption 10 session -- is that an L-12i ac.erce.riate designation? i,. t 13 ' MR. BICZWIT: Yes, it is. It's an Exemptien 10, and l' 14 j Exemption 9(b) also, if you're going to discuss this respense i 15 i to the Brcwn petition. l 16 I CHAIRPMi EINDR~e: New one of them vcu make " minutes t f 17 and one of them ycu =ake a transcript. la MR. B I C Z'4 I T : You can ---you can =ake a transcrip: 19 of both. I see no problem with just preceeding as we 've 'ceen. \\ .0' creceedinc. 3, CHAI?"UT EENDRII: O kav., s a v. I ask for a vote to ,. l hold a short-nctice =eeting en the subject cf the plants and i the affected licenses? (~ w i r.. s,-- ""A. w,,I

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l' i il 3 l1 t g. f-r i 7 h COMMISSIOtER KENNEDY: Ave. ~ . i; t o V d COMMISSIO!ER BPADFORD: Aye. L 3 CCMMISSIONER AEIARNE: Ave. 4 CEAIPs.N HENCRIE: So order,ad, and a vote to close'- 5 I same en the basis of 9(b) and 107 i 6 COMMISSIOtER GILINSRY: Aye. 7 COMMISSICtER KEN!EDY: Aye. i 8 l COMMISSIONER BRADFORD: Aye. i 9 I COMMISSIOtER AEEARNE: Ave. 10 ll CEAIRMAN HENDPlE: Aye. Sc ordered. I 11 Ocwn at the end of this, why I'd like -- I think '12 first we want to turn to the matter i==ediately at hand, the 13 subject of the meeting, and at the end of it why I'd like to 14 =ake sc=e pregress -- 15 MR. B ICKWI'": Are we on? 16, CEAIRMAN EENDRII: Well, we/ve got the great master l 17 ; =achine cranking over here, as well. I t 13 Dcwn at the end of it, I'd like to make a progress 19 report on the things at the site. I've been in heavy cc== uni cation with the field, but that would becc=e, in effect, ance' 20 l 2, l meeting which would be One of the centinuing series en the 22 cperational situaticn. c' 23 ' With regard : the c:her 3&W pla ts, we had the t 24 l briefing this afterncen, the staff repcrt, which I would agal. ,5 { like Oc cc==ent, it seemed to =e an exceptionally clear cne y*

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k e f j, 2 II 4 ~ il, 1 L and well cresented. I congratulate the authors. I guess we u kl) 2 will all have to recognize that that chronology which has 4 f' been ecmpiled with the best effort that could be made in the/ 3 t 4 circumstance will prcmptly begin to change, so that we may as 4 5 l well all reccgnize that the details of that are going to be i 6 ! in a state of flux of some kind as time goes on. I 7 ! Nevertheless, it seems te me that the. staff has i i 8 done a pretty fair job of trying to identify what is discern-1 9 j able abcut the " key points in the Three Mile Island incident i 10 l that are pertinent as one considers the other B&W plants, and i ll i for that matter, plants in general. l 12! There is a bulletin of course which has gene cut, l 13 ' the one that we had the copy of. There is a proposed bulletin 14 ! to go cut noting seme other f acters verifying that in f act i l _1 -a! the feedwater valves are ccen.all around -- or rather, that 1 i 16 ! the feedwater valves meet the operating conditiens for each i 17 l plant, which =eans that all but one -- the leck valves have I 13, get to be open; the business abcut watching cut in these 19 plants for pressurizer level during certain transients te be sure that we don't maneuver the plant solely en the basis of 20 n i i what may be a camperarily correct pressurizer level correlated 2 _, : i with system cressure -- .i I COMMISSIONZ2 GIZI:152Y: ?.emind me again, are there ~3, t 24[. twc valves, or three valves? CHAI?lLM1 EZiCPlI: Wel', I judge frc the 25 h i W ?C7 i f!l'

D.. .3 t y!I i I 1 h conversation that Three Mile had -- somebcdy said, "three," n 2 f, I thought, but -- Pe 3 i' COMMISSICNER KENNEDY: They have three pumps, two '. 4 valves. 1 5 CHAIRMAN HENDRIE : Three pumps, two valves. 6 MR. EISENEUT: Yes. There's three legs, two 7 electric and a stea:s ccming dcwn. Each has a valve in it. 8 The two electric go together in a line which has got one 9 ; valve, and that valve is the -- so you'vc got one valve for I, 10 l the steam approach, and one valve for the electric approach. h I 11 It's get two valves in. i 12 CCMMISSIONER AEEAR3E: And those are the ones -- l 13 ' MR. IISENEUT: The first three work off the 14 integrated centrol system -- i i CCMMISSICNER AEEARNE: And which were the ones that _35 were closed? l e-17 l MR. EISam W t was the m al valve, as I i understand it. 33 CHAIRMAN HENDRIE: New these are rembte-cperated g locP valves, I would expect, used for system naintenance 2 0 ;. 21 when you unde scnethine back = the line clcser : cur cses, l the punps and se en.

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4 h, hl 1 1; for 48, or 72 hcurs. You must have them open if you ' r e a .r w 2 1 greater than 300 csi -- this is Three Mile, and the others L i. 3 i are similar -- and you're allowed so much time if cne is cut h r 4 if -- if any of the upstream eleces are out,.vcu have1.so much i i s l time -- it's a short time, not much time -- 2t, 43. 5 6 l COMMISSICNER AEZARNE: If both are out, you're 7 not supposed to be cut? i MR. EISENEUT: If both are cut, you shut the 8 l i 1 olant dcwn, and you're in cold shutdown in 30 hours, just as 9 10 ! fast as v.ou can Set there. 11 COMMIS.IONER BRADFORD: Assuming, of course, the 12 rest of the shutdown gets through there. 13 ' CHAIRMA'I EENDRII: Now, let's see. Vic, you were ~ I 14, saying that there is -- you were finding scme -- ycu wondered i i _1 a ' about the special attentien to Davis-Besse. Do you want to 16 talk about that a little bit, against the backgrcund of the 17 bulletin that 's about to go. CCMMISSICNER GILINSKY: I started ec talk with 13 19 l John about that, what the rationale for that was, and does that in f act 's' ingle cut that plant. Why don't vcu dust ,0 MR. DAVIS: The plant was fenw. If all cf the 21, I ,l clants had been dcwn, we probably wculd have dcne the same 24 i thing fcr all the plants. In other words, we'd 1 ke :c .a l lock at what you do before ycu ccme back ;p. 24. i This is net anything 00:2117 unusual frcm what we 35. r g _ ?$ n - i $~ i i i !'il

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il ] 7 ii 4 ld !i 1 I normallv would do. I talked with Jim Keccler, the Regiona II FI 3. 2 1 Director, and we agree that it would be well to do this at 4 3 3 this particular plant, since they were already down. ' i We also -- I i 5 [ COMMISSIONER 3RADFORD: Excuse me, when did'thev 6 go down? 7 MR. DAVIS: They went dcwn Friday, as I recall. 8 COMMISSICNER 3RADFORD: Two days after this. 9 i MR. DAVIS: But it was preplanned. It had been 1 10 [ planned for a couple of weeks; for nine days. (Inaudible) l l 11 l COMMISSIONER GILINSKY: But vou would be keeping l 12 I them dcwn lenger than thev wculd have been down otherwise. ,r i l' l 1' ~ MR. DAVIS: Well, Keppler had a conversation with I 14 l some corporate office of the utility, and he said:

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15 l that, a prudent manager himself, that he had no intent of 16l ccming back up until he reviewed that plant with all of the 17 knowledwe they have with regard to Three Mile Island. So he 13 had no particular problem with it. 19 Ecwever, I would sat this: I believe that he wculi be ready to ccme back up before perhaps the 10 days is up, 20 :a l but I also am nct certain he wculd wait for 10 days := answer I

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,, i, c COMMISSICNER GI'INSKY: But the wav vou left 2.3 l it .s (. 2,, ! tha: they have := answer the bulletin and we have te take a J "U*** 0=" ~~ 'S e - e7 4 (} v. m.u, t i

tir.f 3 i e l 1 i li I! 1 !i. 1 ( MR. DAVIS: 'It's not -- that's not in the letter. e a 11 2 1, That's what Keppler and the individual agreed to. They would 3 pull together their reply to the bulletin, and we would take' i i 4 a 1cok at it and see if we had any creblems with it. i t 5 } COMMISSICNER GILINSKY: And I guess, if that's how 6 we feel about it, why wouldn't we apply the same rule else-where? I'm just trying to understand -- 7 8 MR. DAVIS: I don't understand what you mean. 9 l COMMISSIONZR GILINSKY: Well, in other words, if 10 we think it's prudent for these plants to -- not to be 11 operating until -- 12i MR. DAVIS: Well, I think I would have to find, t I 1 13 1 to crder them down, that it 's in the public interest. And tha 14 l to =e is not a very vague ters.. I think if it's convenient .I _1 a- ! while they're dcwn'to give.us the opportunity Oc leck at it l 16 l while they're down, that that is a nice, convenient, pruden: 17 thing te do. But I do not think -- and by the way, Keppler .3 19 agrees with me -- that we would have brought this p'm-A wn, crdered him down, as a result of anything we knew about the 20 1 E **** 2' !i i 22 l COMMISSICNER GIL_"_TSKY: I guess I d n't entirely i f fellcw that distinction. 2 a, i' l MR. IAVIS: Well, I'm ha<ing difficulty 2nderstand-2,, l ing. I don't understand what you are implying. 2y. I F4tL -Q4j .s m. Ii.

D i. e g i I L eil i 0 !i 1 i: COMMISSICNER GILINSKY: Why we would -- well, e il s* 2 ",i we're sort of saying that as long as your're down, whv den't f !! v. ou -- 3 4 MR. DAVIS: We'd like to make certain that every - 5 thing is done before you ce=e back up and you're in real good i 6 shape before you cc=e back up. 7 ! The Davis.Besse is net, according to Keppler, his i 8 l best performer cut there. I e 1 9 i CCMMISSICIER AEEA.VE : What about his worst? I 10I MR. DAVIS: I didn't ask him that. I has never i I 11l been =entioned to =e bv Keccler as his worst cerfor=er. Who l 12 ; kncws what the "best" and "wcrst" is with regard to particular l 13 : cccurrences. 1 !i But it was a prudent act en the part (inaudible). i _a l Keppler and I talked about it and we thcught it would be a _6 prudent act. COMMISSICNER A"LTE : It scunds like a very _37 i prudent act. _3,ol l MR. DAVIS: Yes, but we did nce think we have a g! i 20 li j acr the other plants dcwn. basis to brine tha" -' =* dcwn, COMMISSICIER GILINSKY: Well, ckav, vcu knew, chere 21 ' I ,,i are eften times we wculd net give a license te a clant, -veu f ' knew, that's up for an cperating license, J.ntil we've get s c:- ,3 ~ thinc. straic.htened cc:; which I sue.. c se, id the plan: were i = *t i cperating, we would not 20 r l l- ~YSQ e s.. s g I a

n. 10 1 1 It il, y< U 1 1 s MR. DAVIS: -- bring it dcwn. -p il ii 'l CCMMISSICNER GILINSKY: -- shut them down for. 1 i 3 ! Sut sc=ehow this seems to ne like sc=ewhat a different state-l 4 - i 4 .Et l of affairs. I don't knew; am I missing sc=ething here? 5 l CHAIRMAN EINDRII: No, I don't think so. I' don ' t - l 6 ! think so, Vic.

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t 7 CCMMISSICNZR GILINSKY: Well, we're going to have t 8 i to articulate the distinction here. I t 9 i CHAIRMAN EINDRII:

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10 I think is nuch as you've just said. It it were a plant about 11 !. to do a startup, for instance, en an operating license and I .e. 12 i, sc=ething came along, why if you didn't feel it was sericus t l 13 ~ -enough to shut dcwn operating plants, why you'd let cperating i l 's ' clants clearn it up as they went along, but you would say to l 15 the start - the guy at startup ned, why don't you fix -hat up I I and then we'll trv. to 9et it in share. _1 -o. l 1> I don't kncw. What's the nature of the -- wha: I t ~"e " ~~~m o" -"e -'4 c-o

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b. f, 33 L ii I; q 1 N ll 1 v.:K back up," between Keppler and some corporate officer of the a il !l utility company. 2 L 3 ! CCMMISSIONER GILINSKY: Is the startup process i 1 4 l somehcw a little different in terms of risks, as cc= pared.~tc 5 just running at power? 6 COMMISSIONER AEEAFSE: You mean is it higher 7 risk to start it up?. h 8 i COMMISSICtER GILINSKY: Yes. In other words -- I i COMMISSICNER AHEARNE: Davis-Besse has been having 9 i i 10 what, it's still a year and they haven' t gotten to full pcwer. 11 So I guess for them -- 12 ! COMMISSIONER 3RADFORD: But there are other things i i 13 ! -about that plant. i 14 i CCMMISSICNER GILINSKY: Well, is it nothing more 15 l than that you have a icwer threshold for asking sc=ebcdy to 16 he dcwn if they're dcwn already than if they're up? l 17 l MR. CAVIS: "' hat 's basically what it is. When i _3 l they're dcwn -- as I say, if all these plants were dcwn and 19 the bulletin went out, and they are all in a dcwn positienk we Orchably would have asked all of them to stav down z.ntil 2 0,a \\ we had a chance to review their performance. 23 I ..R. C.9.q 7. e m. c *... g =- --g-- -a ...c s = m J h s e. I 9 1m 4m .= y -- u .~. 1 l based en the theer*f that there are things -- you have 20 shun 4, a J de **T. Oc do whatever the Chings ' Cu had in mind are, SC i f a". f

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L li, ir {t a, f L .I !i }, r.? h you're dcwn -- do whatever you have te do in terms of design ^ It doesn't quite apply. \\. chanc.es or fixes while.veu're dowr. d 3 F here becsuse these are all precedural. That part of the -- i 4 l COMMISSIONER GILDISKY: I guess -- you know, it's s i 5 l consistent with what we do elsewhere, but I'm not sure it's 6 logical 7 i COMMISSICNES. S?ADFORD: Shculd you centinue te de it I 8 COMMISSIONER AEEARNE: You're trying to reach scme-1 9 I thing that would enable you to address Rancho Seco. I i 10 COMMISSIONER GILINSKY: Well, if cne is going to 11 i make a distinction -- and I'd like to understand what it is -- l 12 i scmehcw this one doesn't strike ne as -- 13 MR. EISENHU':': This is no different than we dc 14 ', en a lot of cceratinc. clants, thouc. h, when they're dcwn for I 15 : sc=e reason, we quite often -- it's ust it's very seiden I '6I letters;.but it's usually a gentleman's agreement that we . I 17 l would 1cck at the plant and call the vice president and say, i " h e v., we've got an understandine. veu're not c.eint te start S _9, that clant un. until veu talk to us about this, or until you i 20 f do this er do that." l 21 ; This is, as Ed said, it's not -- it wouldn't warran: i I 22 shutting the plant dcwn to go through a big deal - dcwn and 23 l start back up - to do it, but since you're down it's On'.y. i 24, prudent Oc go ahead.and do sc=eching. 2S CCMMISSIONER 3RADFCRD: Ecw many of chese plants ) have had feedwater transients? "/j ,'7

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t '3 \\ ll h, 1 U MR. EISENHUT: S&W plants? Most of them have had n e a 2 e some kind of small transient. I can recall Ranche Sece's et 9 1L had three or four; Davis-Besse's had three er four; I seem 3 I to think the first big B&W transient was when Cconee started'i 4 l 5 L back up in early ' 7 3-74.. There have been probably 15 since l 6 then. 7 COMMISSIONER 3RADFORD : And how would that ccmpare 8 to other FWRs? l l MR. EISENHUT: I just don't knew. Clearly, che l 9 i 10 ! cne observation I =ade before isk clearly the observation 11 that trnsients, ence they occur, are scmehow more severe on U 12 ; 3&W plants than they are on Westinghouse plants, and I think i l 13 : - that relates to the uniqueness of the system. 14 ! There are clearly feedwater transients en .3 l Westinghcuse and CZ plants, but I can't rema-"er, for example, 1 hcw many times you blew a steam generator dry en a Westinghou-3 6 CHAIFl92T : Get a lot of (inaudible) 3., ~1 MR. EISENEUT: Yes. That doesn't ccme to mind as 3 easy as like when Ranche Secc tow vears ago, it was relativel-19 unheard of to have a big feedwater transient at that time. i 20 i They blew dcwn the steam generator, blew it dry, and shccked 2, I the vessel by turning en feedwater, aux feedwater, safety t I.- 23 ' injection, everything all 2: cnce. Overpressurized the damn i 24 place, but boy hey cccled it off. i Y. I a

P 14 8 t; h. n Ir ji .i F 1 d (Laughter.) { n* e.. 2 l' MR. EISENEUT: I reme=her, they exceeded all the t i I ccoldewn limits, but they got there. 3 4 So there's -- I i 5 MR. CASE: The only strong constraint with Rancho 6 seco ir if you ccme down you.=ust stay down until you're 7 i satisfied with.it. l i 8 i MR. EISE!EUT: I think you can do that. I think i that -- you knew, that's '.he same analysis -- 9 i I 10 l COMMISSICBER GIZINSKY: Well, you know, I threw I' 11 l that out almost in a humorous way, I mean -- 1, MR. EISE2EUT: It's no different; thev. did the same 13 -thine. en cir.e crackin9 It dcesn't warrant shuttin9 the clant t down to do it, but if ycu're dcwn, you're going to de the 14 f maintenance. _a' COMMISSICNER AEEAR!E: There is a difference, thouch , o-Darrell,'for eine crackinc, or as Ed pointed out, in these .s,,! e l other cases you' re going to have to go into the plan to do ,,o somethinc. 1 MR. EISENHUT: Well, that's true. That is a true ,0 n 4 f, statement. ,~ I COMMISSICNER EEN!EOY: Ycu said you thre wha:

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f* P' a il la-u t. W i'1 1 9 t, it u 1 r c.o dcwn durine. the next few days, I wculd want them to r i, 2 notify us before they go back up. h 3 l MR. CASE: One can make an argument fr:m a general. I 4 standpoint it is risker to shut a plant up and dcwn than ~- 5 keecin9 it at base lead. l 6 MR. EISE GUT: The transient is starting up and I 7 shutting down. 8 MR. CASE: Net particularly frca a feedwater stand-9 i =c int. ~ l 10 ! COMMISSICNER KENNEDY: Well, that's true in any kind i i 11 of a plant. 12 I MR. CASE: Sure, in scme instances. o l ~ ~ 13 COMMISSICNER KENNEDY: To start and step major I i 14, turbines is not the greatest thing to do to them. I 15 ; COMMISSICNER GILINSKY: What do we expect to get I 16l back frem this bulletin? I =ean, hcw extensive a piece of i 7 l, cac.er? 1 I I 13 l MR. JORDAN: We would get a reper: f:cm them which i 9l would describe their precedures; they wculd explain the i transients that they have experienced, and hcw they relate to 3 0 l, Three Mile Island, frc= their understanding. 2., t CC.umSSICNER GI INSKY: I'd sav. vou're c.oinc. :: ge: 2i i i back, what, 20 pages?

9. a, MR. JORDAN:

We'll get, I'd say, at least 20 pages. .,44 ll CC.vX SSICNER GI USKY: And how 10nc wculd it take 1 23 ;! i us Oc review these? '(M - {? " 3 i i'i

I: 16 J 4 I a' O,i l f MR. JORCAN : *' dell, ce would have a nan at the site. f*l the insc.ector at the site would be reviewin7 essentially as it 2 i 3 gees, and then back at the Regional cffice and headquarters. l office, you'd probably have a week of review. .i -, 4 l 5 ! COMMSSIONER GILINSKY: So let's.say in the case of i Davis-Besse ^vou'd be prepared at the end of three weeks, at i 6 l 7 any rate, starting from April 1, or less than that. 8 ! MR. CASE: Probably all you've given us. 1 I 9 l COMM.ISSIONER GILINSKY: A little over two weeks -- 10 ll MR. CASE: Yes. .\\ 11 l MR. JORCAN: Yes. I 12! COMMISSIONER GILINSKY: -- to decide whether it's I 13 ' 'ekay. I 14 ; MR. EISENEUT: I'd say a week of review and -- I 1 5,' COMMISSIONER GILDTSKY: And what's thenext stece 16 I in the crecess? You're issuing ancther bulletin. Dces that 17 require another report en their part? i 13 ' MR. JORDAN: Well, we have discussed the legistics : t 19 it, and I think we're geing : =ake it a sup. clement :: his \\ ') 0 ', bulletin, so that they fit; that we're not causing the license I to do scmething that seems independent --

22. I l

CCMMIS5:CNIR .2 TU2II : Sc 7cu'd ex ec: ;c ce: -.3 z: ,i back in the sane general cine peried? .3 MR. JORCAN : I Chink we'd have : give them =cre ci I' l I don't think we could -- (.1 .s. 9 J i i i I i

C D 17 [ F. c

l i

I 1 0 MR. CA7!S: I~t would have to be phased in scce way. a c a; 2 I! CCMMISSICNER GILriSE?: Now :.s anything ccming cut of 3.!this task force that is going to affect the licensee.5, as t 4 i opposed to B&W and their design work? .7 ; ,r 5 This 10-day effort, what is that gong to produce.?- 6 I wasn't clear. i ,, ell, if it produces scmething, it'll be 7 MR. CASE: W 8 generic in the sense that it wculd affect all S&W licensees, 9 l not any 2 out of 3, er one out of these -- i COMMISSICNER GILniSKY: Yes. 10 l0 11 i COMMISSIGNER AEIAPSE: What kinds of things -- l 12 i COMMISSICNER GILINSKY: Are you looking for some ! kind of mcdificaticus, or changes in tech-specs? 33 i MR. CASE: It cculd be, for instance -- conclude and 14 I ! do setething with the pressur zer level instrument. There is i _5, I at least the hv. e. c the sis, secebcdy thinks, that ene of the legs _6 l l 7; boils because of the way it's designed. We're not sure that the other pecple don't acree with it, so we're still -- _1S. 19 CHAI? M i EINDRIE: I: strument leg, er the main 20 lt cenncection? t i 2-l MR. EISENHi;'": Reference leg. i l ,> i, MR. CME : Cf the inst.u=ent. I I MR. IISENHIJ'": Most of them come cut with two caps 33 i One =c:::=, anc = :ne re:erence _eg ecwn to :ne : aparag= a: .3.4, i they're thinking that what you nav have :.s you nay have ch2: 25 g i. D 'lll r1

<?

trip pumps when they the':ght it was a goed thing :: do. l

7. 6 l CCMMISSICITER AHEAPlIE -

Oh, nc, Jce, you missed I I my coint. I'm not -- .7 t S'

  • I 5"

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  • l ccm=ent in ge:u ral and not --

9 \\ .> 0 g COMMISSICNER AEEA?lTZ: Nc, b'ut m v.. coin t is that I 21 l what we have been focusin; just a minute ago on, are what 1 ,' tech:. changes in the design might be necessary -- y.3 C.=s' ~.= 's i.'= '. r *..=.- n-s, .v a.~, CC:Ci SS :NI2 AEZAPlII: -- what I was saying, :. s, 3-t ! hcw do we 00nclude cha: there aren' seme:hinc. and mav.'e in r t %d4 .s A lt ! 6 p 22 s i 1:r ita l 2; i.r i n 1 i,Nors's coint -- changes in precedures and stimulation training? e i; i Il 2 g CHAIRMAN EENDRII: Oh, I think there are. s s 3 liR. CASE: What we were thinking of -- I i 4 CHAI3 MAN EENDRIE: I think there are, because ---- i 5 i MR. CASE -- of setting up this axercise in a i 6 simulator and let them run it. 7 ! CEAIRMAN EENDRII: Yes. i 8 MR. CASE: Given these new instruction procedures to 9 be developed. 1 I ComiISSIONER AEEARNE: Would that then be a require-0 i nent that vou would want to lay down in scme fixed ancunt of 11 I ^ time for an ocerator to have gone through? ..i \\ CEAIRE4 HENDRIE: Sure. Ycu ' d-want to allow -- 13 l. there's just ene'B&W system simulator, 1% ! -vou know, how many I suspect, isn't there? .3, l MR. CASE: Yes. 16 :. l I GIRMAN EENDRIE : Where is that? At Lynchburg? 1,/ j. i MR. CASE: Lynchburg. .O CHAIRMAN EENDRIE: So.veu've c.ot t: cycle them thrcuc.h that, but it seems to me that, v.ou knew, thev'11 wan ,O n ~ i to develcp the procedures that back that up, and then run the o, ,,i creratcrs en the simula:Or acainst a series of these kinds of i transients. ( 23 i i COMICSSICNER A.:EA_ NE : What kind cf time scale is tha ? 7*4 { e 1 25 l r-- n,... i au i h 11 b t 23 i L l. a li Eljr i F CHAII"AN HENDRIE: Nell, hell, that's going to 1 ? a

  1. .1 s

f.- 2 ll take a v. e ar. 3 MR. MC SE" - Maybe less, if you.could rotate them ' l through. 4 i i ~ - - 5 i COMMISSICBER KENNEDY: A week for each operator? 6 CHAIRMAN HENDRII: You could take them.in groups l of what?

Maybe, don't knew, 8,

10 a week, er something 7 l l g l like that? COMMIS 7CNER KENNEDY: Couid you do that nany? 9 10f (Simultans as : -k.round discussicn.) I 11 l C AIO.MA" 7 'uZ. Yes, it >s -- well, you could e_ 12 set up scme.: 59ec t. tings based on what you already knew _I about experie nc e in some of the lesser feedwater transients. I i If you wanted to run a Three Mile, whv vcu're erobably coine 14, l to want to.e.cw a little bit about what things show at Three _15 Mile, of course, lo, 1 CCMMISSICNER 31.ADFORD: If Three Mile had been at 17 lcwer ecwer when this began, what effect wculd that have had? 7 MR. CASE: I thought you were going to ask ne that, 19 since Senator Eart raised the question. 20 i CCIOCSSICNER 3RADFCRD: I did nc:.'c.wo Senacer Eart 21 l had raised the questicn. .o., (Laughter.) t, 2.,., C,,MM_.._,tE s G.. _,J S.. _, : Oh, yes. e co v r i I

  • _R. CASE:

'"he answer ve O.ctnen in talkinc. : tect: 2s j, o t~ 1. Q #* f _^.i A O i a. l l. 11it i. s ~n ? l, i I i ake _'_d___'a di _".# a _- a_.. e. ".".. e v. we _- a. !. t:i c, a,1. 4..e u._ye1 7, 4s _4. wou_1A 4 1 2 I back there working on it trving cc quantify hcw =uch i dr...ccerence, anc

a. yaven,=,nac, a cnance --

t I - g-s.yggn... at may have bcuc.ht a little time; that's 4l .v,3. -- c i ( 5' all. ':'hines would not have ha=cened navbe quite as f ast. It i is hard to sav.. I 6 i 7I CHAI?ld.AN EENDRI'- ou would have had -- j t 3! MR. CASE: It's hard to see what could have ceen i, I 9 done for '-4s thing. 10 CEAI?24AN EENDRIE: You would have had half the i 11 d heat rate at tric. and that would have been -- a.d progressivel-u, you knew -- i 13 ! COMMISSIONE." GIIINSKY: Of course at scce point it 4 l 1 14, =a:Ces a c' ccerence,. i out -- 15 !i CHAIR'4AN EENDRIE: "' hat would have been a nelp. s 16 jCOMMISSIONER AHEAR.'IE : Well, nc, 't nay be it would make a t a U. l d.4.'.#e-a..ca. __'3.".. "_' a _- a. _4 _" ~ ~~._i..c. s a_- a h_=-ye.._'..c,...c - s _' ~. _' ;, y l 1 13 4,, depending upon whether er not chis question of -- 19 MR. CASE: Sun it was a long time invcived here, ..a 20 MR. IISINEU": But thi.s was, you knew, 12 hcurs inte it er so. :c w-1 l .1 ! _1_, g.. We.a.as d = v. eve i.c. " e ".. - a- "..a v. -=_=_v_, c. '.a 1 I .i.s.g g w._a. _4.m., 3 we. m. '.em, .f, ,g hg g4_-.*.a.. .e, c, o M_,,,, f ,. g 3 i e 22 think even .f -- .p,. r g-- 8 ~. a c a;4,v_..q.m.*4 .O. 2 ::-- a 0 7..:.. .O u_..,_. -. m. t 2.J* tets G e 3C r *f r1. I f"C. i 3.) .s. 's d. ey 7. E ) .h.9 9._ h d I .*h.gf a h..g em 9 = p.g 9 e g e.e 1 g gs. g 94.pq e g. W. j. w %.=

  • ** j w-e.,

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N. e ' - =-,ius...c s"-=-. -d 1 Mq. 2' MR.". CASE : Well,.what they said, vou.~<.:cv, noise, vibration l ~ 3 i -- one operator, I think, in an interview said that. MR. EISENEC : If they get a high vibration level B&W's 4 thinking of (inaudible - simultaneous voices). 6 COMM.ISSIONER KENNEDY: Sc=ebcdy said sc=ething i 7 that I was just reading a couple minutes ago, that he was i a down sc=ewhere three levels belcw -- three flecrs below the 9 level of the control rcc= when sc=ebcdy got to him and said, i "sc=ethine.'s c.oine. on," and he said, "I knew it," because 10 11 the pipes in the place were all vibrating like mad. And this I I i 12 ; was sc=e seconcs on 'nto t.ne trans'.ent. i 13 MR. EISENEC : Well, even ver7 early in the game, as I 1.t recall, a c.uy workinc. at 3 : 0 0-s c=e thine. in the scrninc., 3:30 15 er so, was working en the condensate pc_, sher, wn..' cn s tn.e I i 16 l cleanup syste=, which would be the condensate pump in the t 17 ; mai= feedwater pt=p, and one of the operators said sc=eching 18 abo ut -- he was vibrating all over the place, er sc=eching, I i 19 : early in the c.ame, before. ,0, c ~-.'a.e _- =_ wa s c ' a = - ' v. s %-.e w -..e. "."..a e "4 --=c--- -= c c ' = - - u=: -" ' ' s - ~ ~ ' - c "=s <d'--= 21, - - v- - -- ~ r = - - - w 4-c - - -- .2. _, am..e e-2 1 m. C ^ P_.~.=. = ~ ~ 'I='..' = 'u= ' T= - ~ 'a- ~. ~. =. =.. ~. ' _ '. ' '. = ". =, ". =.. ~., u, ic: severa' 5173? a ;,em, necemn. *me. : ...e.. _r .e. m7 =..... Several dav.s. .nd it wenc u. it's f w 8. ). 6-f f%

  1. .s A ;

s 3-l l l 1 j i I designed to shu cff at 30. Thev. ner= ally wcul.d have shut it l 8 1 l 2l cff at 30. t i 3i COMMISSIONZR AHZARNr-Co v. ou ' re. sav. inc. that this l I A I, cne interview said that the.cu=c. was ve ratine. a c.reat deal. i 1 I 5 MR. CASI: Ric.ht. i i 6, Then v.ou knew it's a cuestien of I o o ) l 7{ balancing, destroy the pump and losing the core for the rest i I 8 of the transient versus continuing cn, and the B&W instruc-l i 4 9, tien sav. s : If You've got them on, leave them on, at least one. I 10 ' in each loop. New chev saved the other pump that wayr or i 11 whatever later. t, i i 12 ' I don't know that -- in the discussion with vou, j 13 we indicated that we talked to E&W last night and t01d then f ~..d

  1. - - c'e.=- - e =

a '.d .d.. 14 'h.e c d'=~da ~".a' we.had .4.. ~4 15 a s 4 * -, .4 c.. 1 4.'< e *'. 4 s > ar.d-u- -..e -..c =-, we .0 - c c. e d 16 those specific times to do this, and 50 degrees belcw dcf -- I, i 17 ; '4R. a= nut.- ".. ". = = ~ ~. - =er ~ac.. -.<==- -..~ -~. 18 l the cu= s en? MR. CASE: Yes. 19 1 1 .v.e... e. C q. ntp.

m..u..s. w,s.=

2, &W s u; c, e s %.4. "..a v, ' - =- 0 d i suggesting it for us to 'ce done with. 21 r^ ^- '^

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.k. 's - e..o A. 7 4 yy s .-m .% I.D... 7..Q 79 7t.9. N..h. g h 3--.- d.N 9. - 981 A. - - [) m. g 4 .4 s 71r:sras 4 so3r*Tfs, Inc.,! 1 -..vu e -. m. Jr.e......rn e.n., .r.. . c, 6 -C ..s A. .f. I l l l 1l MR. IISINEUT : The basic -- probably not a whole lot. t 2 I COMMISSIONER GILINSKY: Cr the basic causes. One ^ I i f 1 s 3. c: :ne :::ngs Srewn asks -- I i 4 I i 4, COMMISSICMER SPJ.DFORD: " Chre nc lo c.v " n a v. be the i I, i I 5 wrenc werd. i.' 6 COMMISSIONER GILINSKY: -- is prudence -- well, 7 he savs, " prudence dictates closing of the Ranche Seco I ( l i._4 _7 a s la..d _4..c _i d a.. a, _# a c _i _' 4 _ v, ".i7 'ke causes c# ' '.e '."."._- a a 'd I I 9! are sat;sractorily icenti ed." t I i i 10 MR. IISENHUT : Sure. 11, COMMISSIONIR GILINSKY: Now, dc we think that i 12 - we ' ve - t i 13 MR. CASE: I think these have been the primary 14, causes. There are cbviously seconda f causes which we'll i i 15 l - -..d. a; I 16 ! MR. EISENHUT : I think the confidence.icu've c.et is - '. h 17i of the cpera: Ors were interviewed, the opera:Orr wie were en the =c- ..es

  • _# wb.a -

s im_t., c _, _ c.e. .,w.,., 4, s.__, e. s.'.c _- s '- _4 - j8 : w, ~~ e y l 19 l happened are available; we've get the copies.cf a lec of -he i c.' _' _i c ' a _' ' ~ =.. s

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.._. A _ at 4 _ t.t i ,0 1 h 1 1,! and inct_lic.ence, so that vcu're really not coinc. to c.et a 1 i whole lot nore 'n:c.. nation. ,:l ~ COM>iISSIGNER GII.INSE*1: Okay, I nean, can we say 1, t c s e s u -- yo ur _, s: n we,ve cc reasonab.,.e confidence that 3 i 6 l a: s u -- 5i MR. EISENHir: Are the mator components of contributing 6 iactors. 7 I think you can also say that if vou do tne 3 l actions that are -- which we're crec.esing in cur new bulletin, 9 10 'i ycu,ve got reasonacle conr..,ence t.na: -'s.<.nc or event 11 i can' t occun at the other plants. i l 12 l COMMISSIONER AEIARNE: Even f you don't retrain 1,. the operators? I4 ! MR. EISENHCT : Even if v.ou don' t retnain the operators. Retnaining the cperaters gives you additional assurance that 15 ! 16 even if this event should happen -- and dat is, even if ycu s

7 dese fcur it="
we ' re -"'nking about deihg new -- even ' f one r

IS l of those senehcw fails. Tcu knew, we can go cut in de shcr: i i 19 i ter:n and sav, "thou shalt keec. dese valves ccen," but vou i t 3 __- m ..n.y .. m,. ge g c _: _u..g... ,,,,e c g nn _: a _ag..c. , ya,. .g a g. .a --m ~ -. '. ce. sm"" , 'ec'"se wa we... u - =.d s,_- " ". u si.=- >..==- e M

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2e. l I i i I 1 MR. IISI:EUT: _ It has basically fcur things. I It says: 3e sure, reverify that the energencv. feedwater valves-2'l ^ t 3, are c=en. t i .i ; If that is the case, :e_ inate. You don't have the 1 i 5l problem at all. Then it sav.s: But even ir.veu sn. ' 3 d :.c some I I 7 reason have the transient, the next step in the depth is, a even if you should have the transient, de two things. Se y, sura .a._ ".o., e a' "- e e = s u_-a_. a_.a.

4. "".e e s s "

_4 _- a_ _- _i s ~. ' - l 10 ' used -- the level is not used alone, you use pressure instead 11 Use them jointly if they're both follcwing the same wavs, fine, 1 i j 1 cut ': any cuestion ar'ses, use tn.e pressure :cr a severe 13 .,, s _4.. I 1.t Also if you have a severe transient where the high-Ic --=_ss -a _i..d e c'.. 4

r. c. o e s c.., d.. ' ". =.... 4...= a.

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u .l -.C _ a. . 4my _, .m..,- a r y _- a."., - "..,. a w= a ,..w.e _.. f. ~ . a .= wy .a....,.,3 e w - 4... 3 _ w. - _;.w. _ a_ 4 3 .,._,4.. _ a.. -e,.-.Jp .3 w =%. wt 43 g M1C9 fat 9ecor*Tf1. I nc..

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JU 1 cecause we,.ccw un_,1. e_, v events do ha=. cen. CCMMISSICNER GILINSKY: 3rew. talks about a 2l $ l orecautionarv. neasure until de NEC can assure us dat de l 4 i plant is he says " safe," but I can't think of the statutcrv. r a.a. c. " a c. e . e -, "=.d caea-.'- s".'"= m.. a se 4-u.s c.e..e~'- - -= 1 i 6 defect." l 7[, I suc.c.ese vou could have it su.:er'n

rem a I

gi serious generic defect that you're compensating for? 9 MR. EISINELT: It's Ocssible. I I 10 ! CCMMISSIONER GILINSKY: 1,'ould vou sav it suffers l I 11 ' trem a ser.cus gener c c. erect? i I, i 12 : MR.. EISENELT: I den' think so. Ijst din % it.'s nore I e 13, sens:.tive -- you.ccw, :., you stec on scme cars -- :.. 'fo u i I 14 : step on ny old car .vou knew,.vc u hit the accelerator and r I i I 15 the tires scual and vou e.c rockin9 awav.; if.vou step on a 16 l bigger car, and de respense is a little sicwer. It's just a i l 17 i natter of respense te de system, and I dink it's the sane i t 13 A, C C e ., 4 7 - I 19 i COMMISSIONER GILINSKY: So it's less forc.ivinc. fer-- l 'a

  1. -""d m' d -" a. _i _'._' a_

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I-i l., 1: l;l' ril il.. a 1 i en the operators, in a. sense, for administrative precedures r 2 0 that thev have to follow? 1 I 3 COMMISSIONER 3RADFORD: Ispecially since they y p 4 ! weren'_t following the few -- S-1 .s i 5 CO M SSIONER GILINSKY: Well, this was sent to 6 you (indicating the Chairman). 7 (Laughter), I 8 CO N SSIONER AEZARNE: Scme of these delegations 9 are (inaudible )- i 10 i CHAIRMAN EINDRII: Well, as lead Cennissicner for i ,,I .. l California, why I think this f alls well within vour -- I ,>i COMMISSIONER GILINSKY: 'Ihat's vcur excuse fo" -~: 1 1, 1 - not handling :.t. COMMISSIONER AEIARNE: I s~dli

  1. aa' the resident is, i

( I Cc=missioner approaches that. _5, COMMISSIONER GILINSKY: Well, I think -- 16 I I (Simultanecus background discussicn). ,.7 CHAI.03.AN EENDRII: I think there was a letter ,,o that -- one drait that I saw that attached a number of things , 9 that I think were -- ,0 p 4 I COMM SSIONER AEZARNE: Ihat was your draft response. '[ >7 CHAI.O. MAN EINORII: -- would -- we cugh: : lock o, l s E I a a 972 geef

h. 4.='.mg... -. egg.

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l l I l ti. t I-l!. P a e 1 p CHAIRMAN HENDRII: I think it comes out right, I n!, but I think you' re going to need. co call sc=e of those l.. 2 I

folk, 3

because -- and point out that the Davis-Sesse arrangement is. 4 a typical Reg-cautien sort of above the line p roposition'. -l i 5 Who has -- Coes anybody have the draft? t n 6 i COMMISSIONER KENNEDY: I don't have the original 7 one? l 8 COMMISSIGNER GILINSKY: Is there any chance that they can get their responses in before 10 days? Is that 9 ,i i MR. DAVIS: Who,. Davis-Sesse? 10 - ~1 lpl 1 COMMISSIONER GILINSKY: Any of them,.. mean. f. 12l MR.4 0RDAN: It's pretty tough. i 13 l, CCMMISSICNER GILINSKY: Yeah, it's going to take them that much time to do 't. 19 i l (Inaudible background discussion) ~5 l 3 I COMMISSIONER GILINSKY: And can we co=ri. ourselves _o I to respcn-ding to these -- I mean, reviewing 9.en within a _3 i 13 MR. CASE: We'll give you whatever help you need -- i whatever we've got left. What have we got? 20 i (Laughter) .. I, e_ ge. _ m.-. _ w._ 4 :._4 .w. __ m.w. _. _ _. _e c' u _n A N 22, l MR. KENNEKE: Take -hen O ff -he 5 shundcwn p '. ants. I. oi .J i l' (* * *J PM "."3 w _ w %'7 "% .'.***'* 1 O'*4**

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-s b.. il d: i i *. I n.s. .1>: i .i 1 !i If I wan: Oc ask them that I'd like te. cake sure'I understand <( 2 ll their review of Davis-Besse, new is there some legal prcblem 1: i! with my asking them to make sure I unders tand that? i 3 Y 4 l MR. SIC.'CCI' : No. What are you asking? I want - i i 5 to make sure I understand. i 6 (Laugh te r) 7 COMMISSICNZR AE'ARNE: When this response ccmes in ? 8 from Davis-Besse, you knew, e:cplaining why it's all right for them tn be operating, I was asking the General Counsel ' f 9 i I 10 there any difficulty in my asking you -- CHAIRMAN HINDRII: Identified -- 11 i i l COMMISSIONER.:L.EARNE : Before you rescond, I'd 12j l .like to -- l (Inaudible simultaneous discussion) .1., i l l CHAIRMAN EINDRII: Sufficientiv. well ide.".tified, .o, i (inaucinle simultanecus conversation). signi ; cant 16 ! i . - l' COMMISSICNER AEZARNE: Davis-Eesse rescense, which 1/ l I've already asked -- 1 i 73 (Lcng simultanecus conversation) 19 CO.TA,[gg {Cg]} A3]AO]{ ; ggy, Jgg, ghgg kind g{ s 20 pressure do you feel under 10 respend Oc -his tenight? 71 I' T.= a. a..T..e..a. ( c q v = M y ;. m.fD.o....~ w ^7 m o a,,,3 e 4,. _s. 'q ' y,. - -

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ll 25 ti d CE.G2'2T EZUC o ' - a s, I think che apprcpriate ti i,r v~4 h t e ay $.L l}

t-24 r i h q u. F.i !.i. 1 ( thing to do is for -- Vic's gcing : try to whittle sc=e On e a 2 0. the words overnight and check with the staff. It cught to 8, 3 / have the new bulletin in it and the language ought to reflect 4 l today's discussions, papers, b rie fings, and so en, and'I ~ hink. t i f 5 we ought to have a chance to look at the draf t in the 6 morning. 7 l COMMISSICN.ER AEEARNE: My comment is I want to 8 think through it. And after listening today -- 9 COMMISSICNER 3RADFORD : Well, I think the matter 3.0 o f the wo rding o f the le tter -- it may not just be a matter l 11 of the wording of the letter. l COMMISSIONER AEIARNE: Yes, that's sonething. 3,.9. l 13 l CObCd.ISSIONER GILINSKY: What can I tell him? So I I'll just tell his that a decision would not be made before 3 *. i I cosorrav. ,_a ; CHAIRMAN EINDRIE : I guess -- l e, COMMISSICUER GILINSKY: I've got to get back to g his one way or another. 1ec CHAIEMAN EENDRII: "cni gh t? l COMMISSIONER GIZINSKY: Yes, because -- you kncw, 20 l>l they were tressing for an answer vasterday. ^ ^ 2' :i CCMMISSICLER AEEARNE: Ch. sure, yes. e, 4 c~s_s.. 2 2.,.,7n_. a_ ..,.7 c s _r .=,c _s_a__ __ _._ ye _ o. a, 4 On a :ee _ing --

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p .s p il ll i J. 'l li 1 i[- COMMISSIO!ER 1. rARNE : Well, I guess I would r ( 2 y ' prefer to say that the information we received as of today -- 3 COMMISSIONER GILINSKY: All right, but for somebody-p 4 like me you've got to define PL, and PP, and -- i s S ( (Laughter) 6 1 COMMISSIONER SRADFORD : It's the other sys tem l 7 ! pressure, Isn' t it?,, Pressure in the level, system pressure? 8 MR. JORDAN: Primary pressure. PL's primary level. 9 The pressuri::er pressure level. CDMMISSICNER SRADFORD: I tell you, I'm learning 10 L I a lot. This is an education. 11 ! I (Simultaneous conversation) 12 l; 13 : COMMISSIONER GILINSKY: I wouldn't put down i

I is, f anything like "20 minutes", or anything 11ke dat te him, i

I but j us t -- h_ COMMISSIONER AEIARNE: You haven' t seen anything l o-i 1 7' - dat would recuire us to shut it down immediately. I as of todav t I The final decision -- .8 N IRMAN HENDRII: I'd be agreeable -- 19 COMMISSIONER KZm CDY: If we're prepared tc do d an, J 20 l l den we cught to send den the letter er the telegram a: 9, the same time. We cugh: neu c -- we cught not 20 tell him

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-"a-, = -. d ".a. a e..d .a c..e.". '.~.c. u ..c - w w.".d... av. r' am [m l ne c say that. 24 ] COMMISSICNER ZImiEIY : If we ' re p repared : dc -ha:, j 71.?3s 'l I

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1 ( then we ought to send ~ them the letter er the telegr u a: a if 2 4 the s ame time. We ought not to -- we ought no t to tell him 3 l that, and then send something out temorrow which may or may' 4 not say tha* c-5 CCMMISSIONER GILINSKY: What - ' what is -- ~ 6 CCMMISSIONER AEZARNE: Well, then -- my only 7 point was saying that I'm not prepared right new to say "yes, 8 it must be down'. I'm not prepared right new to say "no, .t l 9 j mus t not go-dcwn". I want to think through what I've heard. .O CCMMISSICNER GILINSKY: Le t me s ay that one thing -- I 4~'s not goinc down, I guess I'm a little unclear on -- i# 12I is, is this question of "pending" what, which I raised i l -before. I think when -- pw CCMMISSICNER AEEARNE: The question of what, Vic? 4 i I ,i CCMMISSICNER GILINSKY: It continues this way, . 3., gen g -- c-w.en dI guess -- are we saying da: 16 I w: th the fur-her bulletin, it can go dis way indefinitely? 17l 1 Cr over a =.eriod of a.vear? Cr a ceriod o f six ncnchs, 13 until we have fur-her information? CCMMISSIGNER SR;uDFCPJ): 10 days. 20 i ~ e v. r W.., 4.s_ w-,,.,,/ n._-Qw: V- - - r,.

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37 i i 1 COMMISSIONER GILINSEY: Or ten days? 2l MR. CASE:

  • dell, I'd hate to put a length o f time,

^ 1 3-but I understand why it would be helpful to you. l .i 4; CC91ISSIONER AEIA?NE: but if v.ou're letrine. them i, I I 5 continue cperation, I think -- a-sq plant should be allcwed 6 to operate -- it's unless we have further information. I 7{ CCMM* SIONER GILINSKY: So we -- i i i a COMMISSIONER AEEARNE: In this case -- l 9{ MR. TECMPSON: b' ell, it wouldn' t be t c long, because i i 10 ! we're going to do a decalled review of the Davis-Sesse response i i 11 l and I think that wculd be the next checkpoint. If we were .i 12 j reviewing Davis-Sesse and we said, "My' God, you can't start 13 i back up," I think that would be sc=e ki.nd of a clue chat we i 14 nay want to - ohat ws. have sc=e significant new infor..atien. i 15 : CHAIRMAN EINDE.'E: Yes, Vic, I think there are two l l 16 ! elements. I l b ),, : On.e is ~mc-~. - ". a c :.e _.= 4.. ; s w.=. ~ s ~ u. i.. u a s e..A _4.. c. w y e jg be "aCd.4*w c.# _d _#^".".la.' ^". "'".= " 'a'C u.' # " a ".d .^ "..". a.". C e C 1.~._ "d aw w. w a 17 f

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38 3e Jwo l .,,a 1 we'd listen, bun we don't have anything in =ind. There are ) en'ngs go ng on wn'cn w:.11 produce >1

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-s i I informa:icn to 1cck a.t, and there would be decision peints, f I i i I 4 - you knew, at 10 days, and 22 days, and 45 days, and so on, i i e! down the line. I think those two elements will be worth noting, 6 1 at least in your telephone conversations, if not in the full 7 U"*t' 8 CCMMISSIONER GIZINSKY: But for the =ccent, I think 9, i 10 ' I'll j ust tell him that we ' re mulling it over until Occorrow. I I 11 ; CHAIRMAN EENDRIE: ?.'e ' re mee ting, and chewing on it, i 12 i anc -- i 73 CCMMISSIONER.'u'~2DIEDY : Okay, that's what ! -2 ink 14, re auc.hn to sav., unless we're prepared to decide to sav. new 1..: what we're c.cing to sav. tc=crrow -- COMMISSIONER 3RADFORD: And then we cught to say it 16, i

7 tonight.

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39 ... r. i . =.. 1 a close-ccupied cc==unication with Ad-4 ral Rickover and that's 2 all I can handle. You're going 00 have to continue to dc ,i 3i the Governors. i i 4 (Laughter.) S CHAIMAN EENDRII: Ch, well, I do -- l f 6! COMMISSIONER GILINSKY: You've got one state. i l 7; CHAIRMAN EENDRII: I do Pennsylvania and the i. 8, A A' '.. =.7. i i i9' COMMISSIONER ArIARNE: Did I trip that off cn you? i l 10 i CHAIRdRT EENDRII: iTnat ' s that? 11 l COMMISSICNER A*~. A.-3Z : The Acmiral? i, 1 12 '. N RMAN EENDRII: Yes. t, 13 I (Lauchter. ) 14, CHAIP. MAN HENDRII: ' dell, vou and Roger Mattsen. 15 j CCIO!.ISSIONER AEEARNE : I see. 1 I 16 i COMMISSIONER GILINSKY: I wish Eawai' were i i l'i c .'.a _4.a._d.a. c.. i 18 ' (Laughter.) 19 i CCMMISSICNER 3RADFORD: Ycu called '-he Admiral? ua : p, a _., _,,, _,as e. 0 Ca.w_s_m c _ e n _,.. .u=, =_ i _ .c, a 4

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40 i i I i i 1i COMMISSICNER GILINSKY: Eas he -- by the way, i i 2l did you ever call him to thank his for your travel -- l 2i CC.y,,_mm_,,,.__v acs .m, s,.47 : at tr cx,,ec. uc to

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4: CHAI?S_'AN EINDRII: Secebcdy was supposed to be I i Sj getting ne up a set of letters. '{ l 6 ! COMMISSIGNIR GILINSKY: Well, when I went on =y i i i t 7 trip, I cane back and I called him to thank him, and I told I I si him hcw fantastic all this was, a tribute to his genius, and i 4 1 ?j h e s c.2.4., " Cut the crap, Gilinsky. Ecw are you going Oc use i a I i 10 i what.v.ou learned?" i 11 i (Laughter.) i i 12 ; COMMISSIONER GILINSKY: So I said, "Well, we have r l I 13, a kind of different =cde of operating" -- l la CCMMISSIONER KINNEDV-vast of cur plants are scrt i 15 ; cf stable. i i i 16 i CCMMISSICNIR GILINSKY: "and I'11 have to think l 17 l hcw chis applies." He said, "Think, think, think, cha:'s all i 13 ' you cuv.s do; when are vcu c.oinc. to c.e: cff your ass and do l 19 l scmething?" \\ 20 (Laughter. ) 21 CHAI.02AN SINER Z: It scunds to ne lake -- 1 __- i .u,.< .e. - -4.7.... =, : s 7. -,ad = - d - 4 _1.= _--. - -., = _ _ - - *. = _ _... a ~.._ a 'l r4 <7 T 'l

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4.i l l 9 o p 1, 1 I be,c. 5. 1 '; follows, excludinc. the overlapped repeat. ) I ~ 2l, CHAIEGli EINDRII: It scunds to me like =v. dudgmen: I i 3' that I' c send hint a nice letter, but 'not talk to him was just i i 4, right. He's a great " i. I I 5' Okay, I think this -- we will need to meet again 6 tcCor cW-7 Let us stop. Let =e declare the meeting on the i 3 i other B&W =lants to be ended. Do we note -- I don't know i 1 I 9 that -- i 10 ' COMMISSIGNIR 3RADE'ORD: If you say " continue," i i l li i does that save us sc=e trouble about cpening -- having another i 12 l one tccorrow? I I 13 CHAIRMAN EINDRII: 1.' ell, we could, i { l, 1.s, (Whereupon, at 6:00 p.m., the meeting was recessed, i 15 ! to proceed to other business. ) 16 ' i l I 17 l 13 19 : I bI ew S} AB V:} -- Q,111 ^* a ;s:wai Aecorws. Inc., =c J}}

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