ML19208B096
| ML19208B096 | |
| Person / Time | |
|---|---|
| Site: | Crane  |
| Issue date: | 07/31/1979 |
| From: | Nebinger D, Marquette Rogers, Rollin J Metropolitan Edison Co, NRC Office of Inspection & Enforcement (IE Region I) |
| To: | |
| References | |
| TASK-TF, TASK-TMR NUDOCS 7909190051 | |
| Download: ML19208B096 (36) | |
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t UNITED STATES OF AMERICA NUCLEAR REGULATORY COMMISSION i
I In.the Matter of:
2!
IE TMI INVESTIGATION INTERVIEW i
2 of Donald W. Nebinger Second Class Repair:i:an a:
I John L. Rollin 5;
First Class Repairman 6i f
7j 8!
Trailer #203 9i NRC Investigation Site TMI Nuclear Power Plant 10!
Middletown, Pennsylvania H!
^
July 3, 1979 12' (Gate of Intarview) 13!
July 31, 1979 (Date Transcript Typec) 14!
327 15i (Tape Num::er(s);
16h 17' 1Si 191 20t 21i NRC PERSONNEL:
22:
Mike Rogers Tony Fasano 23j 2aY 9 ?'> T
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25-
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7909190 1;
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l 1l ROGERS:
This is Mike Rogers.
I'm an Investigator with the Nuclear Regulatory 2
Commission assigned to the Region I Philadelphia Office. The time is 1:15 p.m., the date July 3, 1979.
We're here to interview Donald W. Nebinger 3
4l and John L. Rollin, Jr.
This interview is taking place in Trafier 203, d
located near the South Gate of the Three Mile Island Nuclear Power Plant.
Also present in the room is Tony Fasano, Tony I'll ask you to give your 6
title.
a!
FASANO:
Inspection Specialist, Performance Appraisal Branch, assigned to g
Region I.
11:
i ROGERS:
Before we start the formal interview, I'd like to bring to your 12!
attention the two page statement which you both read over prior to the interview beginning.
I just want to ask you a couple of questions.
First of all, regarding that statement.
The statement does refer to the NRC's authority in this investigation, it outlines the sccpe of the investigation and your rights in this investigation, in this interview.
I'll ask you 17l first of all, did you both, or I'll start with Mr. Nebinger first.
Did you 181 understand the statement?
19t 20t NEBINGER:
Yeah.
21!
22l ROGERS:
Do you have any questions regarding, anything contained ir,it?
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i NEBINGER:
Not really questions, just like I said, it just seems so formal, 1!
like it's, in other words like you get... almost get in some kind of hot 2
water for doing something or saying something, not that I have anything to 3
say that I shouldn't, it just that I never been involved in something this 4!
formal.
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Gi ROGERS:
Do you, or would you as it mentions in the statement, wish to have i
7!
I anybody, any company representative present or anybody else present while Si you're being interviewed?
g 10l NEBINGER:
No.
That doesn't bother me.
I have nothing to hide.
11!
12' ROGERS:
Mr. Rollin, do you understand the statement that you signed?
13t 14' ROLLIN:
Yes.
15, 16i ROGERS:
Do you have any questions or would want anybody present with you 17; while you're being interviewed?
18!
191 ROLLIN:
The only question I can see is reference to a Title 10, which I 20!
I can' t I don' t know but otherwise...
21!
22!
l ROGERS:
Title 10 is of the Code of Federal Regulations.
23!
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3 lj ROLLIN:
Yeah.
ROGERS:
3 That's the regulations which guide the Nuclear Regulatory Commission.
41 ROLLIN:
Okay.
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6i ROGERS: At this point, I'd like to have Mr. Nebinger anIj Mr. Rollin f
introduce themselves and give a brief resume of their background, a.i far as your educaticn and experience. We'll start with Mr. Nebinger.
10:
NEBINGER: Do you mean here at Three Mile Island or...?
12!
ROGERS:
No, with your education and I probably should'ol outlined this to 131 you before we began but a resume of your work experience...
15:
FASANO:
Or training.
1Si 17l ROGERS:
Or training which brought you to the point you are at right now.
19)
NESINGER:
Okay.
Well my name is Donald Nebinger. My education, I got 20!
GED, I went in the service, was a Jet Engine Mechanic in the service for 4 21l years.
I came out of the service and worked various, various mechanical 22!
l relat'd jobs until I came to work for Metropolitan Edison in 1966 or '67, I 23l don't remember exactly what year it was.
I've been with Met Ed sver since.
24i I've been up through the line from an A Worker to a Second Class Fireman, 25i
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somshero 'around,2 years' ago as a Repairman Apprentice and since then I've i
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made Second Class Repai'enan.
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<L gj C3gS: What fs your:present title 7 c
6i NEBINGER:
Second Class Repairman.
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o 81 ROGEKS:
Okay.
g 1 01 NEGINGER:
1stjyear.
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ROGERS:
Mr. Rollin.
131 t
14 ROLLIN:
I graduated from high school, 2 years of college, military service,
'Si m,
Nuclear Navy, 6 years and 10 months.
And I applied fer a job at TMI, been here for just about 5 years.
I'm now a First Class Repairman, Certified 17t Welder.
18i 19i ROGERS: Okay. Again, just prior.o turning the interview over to Mr.
20:
Fasano, I would like to ask you that as the interview progresses, if you answer any questions or make any statements, if you would state your r.ame.
22!
That would help the people that are going to be transcribing the tapes to 2.
.kncw whose actually speaking at the time.
24!
At this point, I'd like to turn the interview over to Mr. Fasano.
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FASANO:
This is a question that you can answer first, if you want to you 2j can and just state your name and then proceed.
I'd like you to tell us 3
when you first learned of the event on March 28th.
Do you want to, Don?
41 NEBINGER:
No, that doesn' t matter.
I came to work that morning, I get e
6i here a couple minutes early, I was working 7-3:30.
I wa~s here I guess at approximately somewhere around 10 minutes of 7 or so, and I believe it was 7,
somewhere from 7 to 5 after that they knew... I knew they had a problem, g,
however, what it was I had no idea. We went up to the lunchroom and then g
frem there they had sent us back to Unit 1 HP for the... our position on g
the Emergency Repair Party but I don't for the life of me remember what time they sent us back to HP.
I know it was in the morning and it was early but I can't tell you what time it was. Maybe Sid would know what time it was because we both went together, roughly.
I'll tell you it was before 7:30 I know that.
16; FASANO:
John, are you called Sid?
ISi ROLLIN:
Yes.
193 20l FASANO:
Okay.
21!
22l ROLLIN:
Alright.
I knew there was a problem when they closed the gate, 3 2 31 cars after I got in on a Wednesday morning of the 28th.
I got here about 5 of.
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ROLLIN:
7.
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ROLLIN: And the gates closed behind me and I thought that was kind of s range.
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he parking lot and there was more activity than 81 usual.
And I went to the lunchroom and then on to HP.
It was less than a 9;
10,l half an hour it seemed, between the time I got in, we got to the lunchroom and they had us back in HP.
11.
12:
FASANO:
Instead of me interrupting with questions, why don't you, Sid, 131 just continue on where you went, and what assignments you were given, who 1
141 gave you the assignments and how did they proceed and when you finally left the site, say on the 28th.
17' NEBINGER: Well, we'd have to kind of talk that over cecause everything happened, that seemed so fast.
191 20t ROLLIN:
(Just says his name.)
i 22!
l FASANO: Alright, That's...
2 31 24:
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lj ROLLIN: Well, we got to the lunchroom, that there was an emergency, a site 2l emergency called and on that site emergency the shift workers are to report 3
to HP as a part of the Emorgency Repair Party.
I don't recall if anybody 4
really called us or not.
Si 6;
NEBINGER:
No, they didn't.
71 ROLLIN: We were back there, we were then instructed by Bob McCann, I 8
gj believe, to close the access do('- between Unit 2 and Unit 1.
Don went in 10; and used the manual chain to close the door and came back out and lost all h
his clothes.
They were contaminated so he had to change clothes.
And then g
we were sent to the Control Room of Unit 2, was it? Unit 2.
13l FASANO:
Can you... about what time aid you go in and close the door, this is in the...
15i 16; ROLLIN:
It wasn't very long, was it? It had to be before 8 o' clock because we didn't stand around long.
191 FASANO:
This was Unit 1 door.
20i 21!
ROLLIN:
Unit 1.
22!
i 23J FASANO:
In the auxiliary building.
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lj ROLLIN:
In the auxiliary building there is a large access door, they call 2j it the " Basketball Court".
I 31 4l NEBINGER:
Model room.
4 5:
ROLLIN: Model room whichever.
Okay.
That door closed.
Apparently I 6i couldn't see from the side but the chain came off the sprocket...
8l NEBINGER:
It wasn' t on.
I went in to pull, it said " pull chain".
You g;
10l pull the chain the door comes shut.
And I pulled, nothing happened.
I y
looked up, the chain was off the wheel and I had to climb up a ladder and gj put the chain back on the wheel, and then I had to get back to pull the chain.
It was only open, oh, 2-2 1/2 feet.
It didn't take, I don't believe that I was in there more than 20 - 25 seconds at the most.
I ran in, did
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it, and ran back out.
I know I wasn't in there more than 20 - 25 seconds.
16i FASANO:
I'll interrupt here. Was there a health physicist with you? Who was with you? Just the two of you or was there someone else? Did you check, did you know what the radiation field was?
20!
NEBINGER:
I had no idea except that it was crapped up and I went in by 21; myself. With, golly, I can't remember who was standing at the door watching 22l l
through the window beside Sid and there was one other person there.
But I 23\\
can' t put a name on him.
I think it was Bob McCann but I'm not sure, was 24l standing there and I went iri, closed the door, and came right back out.
25!
There was nobody with me.
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l lj FASANO:
At the time, did you know it was a high radiation area?
2!
NEBINGER:
I knew it was a radiation area - high, no.
I didn't know.
The 3
4 way I knew is they told me that I had to wear the respirator and make it as Sj quick as I could.
So that told me that, don't mess around, get in there and gat the job done and get out.
6 7l gl FASANO: Well who told you that?
91 N
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- An a s just what I d W.
R just came from various people at 10f HP.
It was sort of roaming around.
12!
ROLLIN:
Bob McCann had mentioned it.
He had made sure he got the mask and...
14:
15.
NEBINGER:
Yeah.
16:
i 17!
FASANO:
Scb McCann, what is his position.
Is he a health physicist or a...?
19i 20:
ROLLIN:
Health physic's foreman.
He is a chemistry foreman.
21!
22l FASANO:
All right, if you want to continue.
23 24l 25i E
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10 1,l ROLLIN:
The remainder of the day was spent in Unit 2 control room standing 2j by in an air mask.
I 31 4;
NEBINGER:
Not the whole day because we went from Unit 2 control room to i
5 the turbine room in Unit 2.
6i
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ROLLIN:
Oh yeah.
/
81 NEBINGER:
g Where we all sat in coveralls and gas masks and nobody seemed 10 to... my own personal impression, nobody seemed to know what was going on.
I mean, we just sat there and then went from there to Unit I control room.
However, we were only in Unit 1 control room maybe...
131 ROLLIN:
Not very long.
15i NEBINGER:
No.
I don't believe more than five minutes at the most.
16:
l'7!
FASANO:
When...you did go to the Unit 2 control room first?
19i ROLLIN:
Yes.
201 21l FASANO:
Okay, about what time was that.
22 23, ROLLIN:
Here you go with times again.
We didn't even pay attention to the 24 clock.
It was before noon.
It seemed to be the middle of the morning.
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11 lj FASANO: About 9 ish or so?
2:
NEBINGER:
It was before they ran everybody off the island and, remember 3
4:
that, cause I said where we were we've left the control room, went out in 3.
the turbine room and set at them benches and what have you, when I was 6i saying just think here we are sittin doing nothing when everybody else is l
gettin off the island.
' t 8i ROLLIN:
Yeah.
g; 10i NESINGER:
So it was just before whatever time they made everybody off which I think was somewhere around 10:00, if my memory serves me correct.
l 13]
FASANO: When you went into the control room have you been, is it normally that you go to the Unit 2 control room, I mean, have you been there before.
16i ROLLIN:
As a normal state of...
17' 1St FASANO: Well its...you've been in the control room before when the normal 19i operating conditions, yes?
20) 21!
ROLLIN:
Yes.
22!
23 FASANO: When you went in there this time how did the environment look to 24 you? How did the control room, how many people were there, and how were 25i they responding.
Do you have any feel for that?
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lj ROLLIN:
It seemed to be wall-to-wall people.
The control room operators 2{
didn't have much room to move.
I didn't see the foreman, he was probably 3
buried under all the other observers.
4!
NEBINGER:
I...the impression I got, and I looked at that quite close cause 5
t Sj it was the first time it was ever any type of emergency where I've heard 7
that people sort of congregate.
And what I saw,'from what I seen the gl operators doing, now don't get me wrong, I don't know what they were doing, I don't know what their job is in an emergency like that, but the operators, g
10,f rom what I seen, looked like they more or less had what they thought had their job under control.
It's just that they were so squeezed out they y
moved HP in there, they moved I don't know how many different, I shouldn't f
say inspectors, it just seems that instead of having a point for each party, the repair party and other trouble parties, they just put them all in one spot and it was so congested that the poor operators really couldn't get around doing what they should be doing with room to breathe, cause they didn't have the room to breathe.
There was a lot of people there.
But they seemed to be able to have everything under control, I mean as far as their own feelings.
I didn't see any of them up there panic nobody, that I saw.
20j 21t FASANO:
Did they have a section of the control room where most of the 22!
i repair party, like your group, stayed.
23 2 41 m
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f NE3INGER:
They did our section, they moved us back in that little, what I
gj used to be the startup engineer's office, I think it was.
t 3!
FASANO:
STE room.
4:
Si NEBINGER:
They moved us back in there and then the HP h'ad the table out in 6i the control room there in the corner of the control room itself.
After 45 7
minutes or ser things started getting, you know, pretty decent. We were 8
splitting up.
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1 FASANO:
So you left the Unit 1 HP point and then were sent up to the control room. Who sent you up there? Was it any one person in particular 12',
who said now we are going up to, we are going to be up...
14:
NEBINGER:
Sam Jules took us up there and we were only in the control room the first time maybe five minutes and then, like I said, because of the congestion, that's when they moved us frcm there out into the turbine room.
And the whole time we were there they were coming through with their air samplers, and taking samples and finally it got too contaminated, I would imagine, in the turbine room.
They moved us back into the control rocm and 20t that's when they put us in the STE office the second time, rememoer that.
21l i
22l ROLLIN:
Yeah, they did move us around quite a bit.
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l lj NEBINGER:
Sam Jules was with us from the time we left HP till we went into 2
the control room and out of the control into the turbine room, and out of 31 the turbine room back into the control room and then from there, I. hadn't 4j seen him from then on.
I don't know where he went.
He is a mechanical maintenance foreman.
g; 6i FASANO:
Did Sam tell you to do any specific job, maybe looking for a disk f r the reactor coolant drain tank?
8 9l NEBINGER:
Not me he didn't.
No.
101 11:
FASANO:
If someone were to go to look for that, it would be the mechanical 12!
l maintenance people, right? Can you recall who else was on the team? Well, 13l I am just thinking of the maintenance people because we are finally getting 15:l names of the, that's why you're late here, names seem to just come up.
The instrumentation, are you familiar with these people and electrical, that would be on your shift.
Do you know each other, the guys that are on your shift. Would you give me the names...?
18!
19!
NEBINGER: We did before this happened but now we went on different shifts 20!
and we are working with a whole bunch of them now.
2}i 22!
l FASANO: Well just on the 28th that's all I need for now.
23!
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ROLLIN:
At that time the Unit 1 instrument repairman was Bill Yeager, Unit 2j 2 instrument repairman was Jim Wright, the electricians are the same as we ig are, mechanical maintenance, we cover both units.
At that time it was Dave Webster and John Waters in the electrical department.
I had to think of 4l
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their last name there.
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6i FASANO:
7j I've been trying to find the names, I guess I could have gone and 8
91 ROLLIN:
At that time, yea, they were.
11; FASANO:
And Yeager and Wright, instrumentation.
You say Unit 1 of...
131 ROLLIN:
Yeager was Unit I and Jim Wright was in Unit 2.
15 FASANO:
Okay, and Webster and Waters are both Unit 1 and 2.
161 17!
ROLLIN:
Yes.
That's what we do, mechanical maintenance.
Cover both ISi units.
19i 20; FASANO:
Okay were these people generally in the same position you were?
21!
22!
ROLLIN:
No.
And I imagine that...
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I lj NEBINGER:
I didn't even see Spanky or Waters and Webster.
I didr't see 2
them at all that day.
31 f
ROLLIN: Not at all.
4 Si 6i NEBINGER: Not at all. Where they were I don't know, I 'didn't see them at all. As a matter of fact I didn't see the instrument men either.
I don't 8
know where they were.
91 10j ROLLIN:
I believe we were taken back mainly by Sam Jules and he took us to where he felt they were needed or he was told we might be needed.
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electricians, I suppose, their foreman would direct them wherever tney had
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13 14!
FASANO:
Did you, Kalenevitch's name came up.
My understanding, when he, 15.
when you first were in the Unit 1 meeting, ECS I guess they call it, did he 16i take over that group, do you recall or Jules was the only one that you felt w s the person you were going to get directions from.
18t 191 NEBINGER:
Kal was there.
However, as far as take over I really... we 20t really didn't do nothing, I mean, he didn't give any orders but he would be the man in charge I would imagine until Sam did show up and then we sort of 22:'
follow after Sam because he is our foreman.
If I remember correctly.
23!
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ROLLIN:
If our shift, wasn't it that time that Kal was suppose to be our 2
shift foreman, okay. What happens on our old rotating shift, they had l
shift maintenance foremen.
They would rotate and we would get a new one, 3
4j and they would take charge in the evening ana night.
Daylight, however, we Si would go to our respective crews and the shirt foreman would take care of 6l their own crew.
71 FASANO: This would be the maintenance shift foreman.
8 9!
ROLLIN: Maintenance shift foreman.
We had two instrument people, two 10i mechanical, and one electrical foreman who was on shift and rotated at the time.
So he just happened to be with us that Wednesday.
13!
FASANO:
,4 And the shift foremen during the day, the shift foremen would just 1.
be with the other day foremen, is that correct?
16:
ROLLIN:
The shift foreman, as we use that term, is strictly operations.
17; Our shift maintenance foreman would go to his own group.
191 FASANO:
Okay, so the main job you did was to get in and close the model
,40 21l room door and at that time you did have a health physicist who, did he have a meter with him to check the radiation, this would be McCann?
22l i
23l NEBINGER:
There was somebody there with a meter but I don't think it was 2 41 Bob.
They didn't, I didn't see him go in the model room or close to it, 25:
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but I took it that they were because they're the ones that told me to get l'
2 in and out as fast as I could.
I didn't see a meter that I remember and I e
3j know nobody went in with me.
I went by myself.
41 5l FASANO:
You volunteered to go in or did you just get told to go do it and i
6j y u did it.
7l l
ROLLIN:
I don't know. How did that work? I guess I told you.
8 9!
NESINGER: To this day I don't know.
All of a sudden I ' mow the door was 101 open, somebody said it had to be closed and I figured, you know, somebody's got to do it.
So, I went in and did it.
I don't remember if anybody told I
me or if anybody said, hey, would you do it.
All I know is the next thing 131 I know I was in there pulling on the chain.
li FASANO:
You thought that had to be done so you did it.
17!
NE3INGER:
Yeah.
So I, yeah.
I don't think anybody told me and I don't 18!
think they asked me.
20!
ROLLIN:
No, Bob was talking to both of us at that time.
21!
22!
8 NESINGER:
Yeah. And the next thing you know I was in there.
I don't 23!
understand exactly how it happened.
I knew you had a problem at that time; 24!
however, I didn't know what it was or to what extent.
How bad a problem it 25i
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19 Ilj was, I had an idea.
I heard al' the monitors singing and buzzing like you 25, w uldn't believe.
3l 4j FASANO:
So you apparently were familiar with that area.
You knew that gj door.
61 NESINGER:
I crossed through that area quite frequently and every...
7 I
8!
FASANO: The, so, there was no other, you did not do any other maintenance g
work, mechanical maintenance.
11.
NEBINGER:
No, sir.
12' 131 FASANO:
And there was no, can you recall, well then, you don't knew of 'any
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problem that maintenance would have had to go in and help during this 1_
circumstance.
16:
17' NESINGER:
No, sir.
If there was a problem that we would have had to go in 18(
we would have known it because we were the two maintenance on the repair 19!
party.
The only thing that was told us is that they did have a problem but 20 j
we can't go in there because of the radiation levels so high we had to wait 21:
until it dropped off and it just never did drop off that I know of until we 22l finally got sent off the Island.
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I 20 ilj FASANO:
Then, as far as mechanical maintenance, the main thing you did was 2l close that door.
Then you more or less moved from one position to another I
3 position and then were sent off.
Did you have a dosimeter with you when you went in to close the door?
Si 6}
NEBINGER:
Yes, sir.
i 71 FASANO: And did you read it?
8 91 NEBINGER:
I lost it.
They took it, they took my self reader and my film 10f badge.
It got crapped up, they put it in a bag and they gave it back maybe an hour afterwards.
I sit back there in the coveralls after I took my shower, that I didn't have nothing. When they gave it back they did say they read it but they didn't tell me, I didn't see them do it, I didn't see any numbers or any figures or anything like that.
But approximately right close to an hour.
16; 17' FASANO:
Don, did you, were you contaminated after you closed that door or was it later? I mean, did you know you were contaminated? When did you know that you had some contamination?
20!
21; NEBINGER:
As soon as I came out of that room.
As soon as I come out of 22l that room I knew I had it.
23!
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lj FASANO: Were you checked?
25 i
3j NEBINGER: Yes.
41 Sj FASANO: Okay.
And a frisker?
i Gi NEBINGER:
Yes, that and...
81 ROLLIN:
No, it was the portable monitors they were using.
101 NEBINGER:
11::
Yeah, the portable jobs and I was crapped up.
12:
FASANO: Were you, Sid?
13) 14 ROLLIN:
No, I didn't go in.
I stood at the door and watched him.
16i FASANO:
And you didn't get any contamination? How many feet away were you 1;/ :
from him? Not too far, were you?
18i Loi ROLLIN:
After he entered the door, I was right next to him.
But all his 20) i contamination was particulate.
It had all collected on him, on his clothes, 21!
and stuff.
And it decayed off in a matter of days.
225 23 NEBINGER:
Except my hair.
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22 i
1 ROLLIN: Well, your hair.
That took a few washing.
l 2!
l 3j NEBINGER:
It took a hair cut. Worse than my butt.
41 FASANO:
You mean it stayed in your hair for a few days?
g.
Si p
NESINGER: Well, I, maybe I shouldn't say this, I don't know.
I scrubbed my head and I checked it again with the...
g 9!
FASANO:
Frisker...
O 11!
NEBINGER:
Frisker.
And I was still hot.
So, I scrubbed it again, and it was still hot, then I scrubbed it I guess 4 or 5 times.
14!
FASANO:
Did you have a head cover on when you went in?
16i NEBINGER:
No, sir.
181 ROLLIN:
No, the mask was it.
19!
20?
NEBINGER:
The mask was it.
And then I come out of there and when it was 21!
l all said and done after we had sent off the island we went over to the 300 22l sub and they checked our cars out there and this was 2:30, 3:00 in the 23 afternoon.
They checked the cars out and they, you checked yourself out 24!'
again.
And I checked myself out rather speedly, you might say, because I 25j T h,o c; ?, !
l
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23 1l knew what was gonna happen, I wasn't gonna wind up baldheaded, and I sort 2
of stopped on the way home and got my hair cut.
That's a no-no.
I 31 4
FASANO:
I'm gonna pause now to change the tape.
Si Si ROGERS:
The time now is 1:46. We're going to pause at this time to change 7j the tape.
l 81 ROGERS:
Donald Nebinger and John Rollin, Jr.
Mr. Fasano.
g, 10l FASANO:
g Sid, did you have any contamination at all?
I guess you checked yourself pretty thoroughly.
7 131 ROLLIN:
Yes, the first day.
15, FASANO:
You did have some contamination also?
17:
- 9 18l 19' FASANO:
But at the time Don had found himself contaminated, you didn't have any at that time.
22?
ROLLIN:
Correct.
23I 2 41
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24 1;
FASANO:
So, where do you think you might have picked up and was it a 2
similar type in your hair, in your clothes?
31 t
4:
ROLLIN:
Yes, it was all airborne.
Si FASANO:
Okay. And someone had said here that it was fixed.
Who told you Gi p
that and how did you know?
8!
ROL'IN:
g I said it and I know it because of my background in health physics L
and radiation through the Navy.
101 11.
g FASANO:
It didn't smear off.
Is that what you're saying?
131 ROLLIN:
After repeated washings the contamination's still there.
So they know its not going to fall off and contaminate someplace that it, that they
- .5i don't want it.
A lot of times you're allowed to use tools that are conta-minated back in the primary area inside the control building.
If it's radiation that they know is fixed, and they know that by cleaning the tools.
19I 20!
FASANO:
So, then you went up to the 500 KV station.
And from there did you go to the, anywhere else or is that where you stayed?
23l NE3INGER: We might have been there for 45 minutes or so until we got the I
cars checked out, and checked out and you gat a shower out thers, and then 25; that was our quitting time.
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25 lj ROLLIN:
That was it.
I 2l 3l NEBINGER: We went home.
l 4!
4 Sj ROLLIN:
And that was it.
6i 7j NEBINGER:
That was our quitting time. We went home.
That was after 4:00.
8 We actually, we were over cur quitting time, but we had to put it in.
This gj was after 4 when I started trucking up the road and going home.
101 FASANO:
Your cars were checked.
I mean there was a health physicist there U
checking...
ui NEBINGER:
Yes, sir.
14:
13; FASANO:
And after you took your showers they check you too?
17!
ROLLIN:
That's why I had to take a shower.
Because they caught it.
Go in the substation and they check you with a monitor and they have plastic bags for you to put your clothes in and other apparel that those, paper coveralls to dress into and you had a sink to wash in.
But then again, it was better 21l than nothing.
23i FASANO:
You went home in these paper coveralls then with your clothes in a sack? Or did they take them?
25;
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j 26 lj ROLLIN:
They kept them.
I 2!
3 FASANO:
They kept your clothes.
Have they returned those? Curiosity 4
only?
5l 6l ROLLIN:
They were returned in two days, I think.
7 l
FASANO: And they were then...
8 91 NEBINGER:
All except my shoes.
101 11!
ROLLIN:
Your shoes...
g 131 NE3INGER:
It took a little while after.
7p 15 Y
Y 16:
17!
NE3INGER:
They didn't return them.
191 ROLLIN:
We had to go back and check.
21:
NEBINGER:
We went back and checked and found them and checked them out 22l I
ourselves and got them back.
The only thing I never got back was my watch-231 band.
24!
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lj FASANO:
You did get your shoes back by...
2!
3 NEBINGER: Yeah.
4i 5;
FASANO:
Apparently, when you went in, your shoes, were they contaminated?
t Gi 7j ROLLIN:
No.
8 FASANO:
So, you both were in the same locations except for when you went gg in to close that door.
I have no further questions at this time, Mike.
10[
Now, if you'd like to, if you'd like to share any of your experiences that g
would make it, give knowledge to other people that may listen to this tape 13j to how better handle the situation from your point of view.
So much of this, you're, you know, you're welcome to give that, and if you want to.
g One of the concerns I have is what the overall maintenance status was of Unit 2.
Indeed, you can remembsr any cronic things that you had to do in the past. That would be before the 28th.
I'd like to hear about it and 17j get your comments.
18t 1si NEBINGER: As far as status of the plan before hand, I'm not really one 21l that should talk on it because of my time here.
I'm more or less, I believe at a coal fire plant or another plant, a smaller plant, a guy with two 22!
years can pick up quite a bit of dope.
But down here there's so much that so big that 2 years doesn't really give you that big of background.
And as 241 far as the problem on the 28th, I think, from what I saw, I think that the l
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I i
f 28 l
r men handled the problem as best they could and for not knowing really what, 2
you know, the circumstances involved, I think they did good.
The only 3j thing I' think was lacking on a problem like that was emergency gear.
I 4;
think that all plants ought to have maybe a warehouse just set aside for Sj that. Gas masks for instance. ' Scott Airpacks, they didn't have them.
I 6;
mean there was, at that time, I don't know how many but I know afterwards 7!
they had to bring truck loads in to get the Scott Airpacks. And the gas masks. We wore them gas masks for that whole first day we were in here and 81, g
the next thing I know we come in, they give you different type canisters on it, saying that the canisters you were on weren't any good.
They don't 10t g
stop iodine. Well, then, what I feel they should do is take the best canister you can get on the market, that's good for everything if there is one such a thing, and stock a whole bunch of them in the store house or someplace not to be used on everyday, only during or for an emergency.
Then you don't have to say, well, hey, this is all we got, its better than nothing.
There ought to be more emergency, locked up or kept strictly for emergency so that they have them if the case does arise either here or anyplace else.
But I think that the trouble they had that day, I think they did as good a job, if not better, than anybody else would have.
20l NEBINGER:
Sid, I don't know what you feel on it.
We haven't talked about this before hand.
Its just a...
23t ROLLIN:
All right.
I can tell you tnat the experience that Don and myself 24:
had outside of the plant is such that we have been trained for emergencies.
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If I in the Navy in submaHnes, and Don in the fire department. And, being l
trained to observe an emergency and to try and understand whats going on 2
3 and pick out the weak spots was, I feel, a little easier before I sent for i
4j the operators that were there because they were trained.
So, his observation.
l I didn't realize that before.
All I saw were in the Unit 2 control room, g
a 6
the operators at the controls and a lot of people handing orders around in j
a circle.
But it was still the operators just standing there waiting and the auxiliary operators were in and out with orders for jobs to do if they g
weren't standing around.
g 10l l
FASANO:
As far as training then, you did have training in the fire depart-11; ment and you said yours is in the Navy or...?
l 13)
ROLLIN:
Yes, in the Navy in the submarine as most of the operators are 141 here.
15' 16:
FASANO:
Your training here to be part of the repair party, did you have training in that and did you participate in the, I guess they have simulated 18!
or game type...
191 20:
ROLLIN:
The requirements are that you're a ship broker as far as our 21:
department's concerned. As for training, we'd have training every once in 22!
a while where they'd announce an emergency and we would then go to Unit 1 23 HP and the shift supervisor would be at that point.
24!
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11 FASANO:
This is operations?
i 2l i
f ROLLIN: This is operations. This would be on an evening or night shift.
3 4j Aad then he'd tell us where it is.
An operator, maintenance department, gj and electrical would go and evaluate the situation.
6i 7
FASANO: So, you take orders and...?
I 81 ROLLIN: And that woulc be the end of the drill.
Like we'd hit the spot, g,
evaluate what it is and tne guy would say, okay, that's good or you missed 101 this or whatever and that would be it.
12l FASANO: Would these be into an area where there's radiation?
13 14!
ROLLIN:
At times, yes.
16, FASANO:
And how would you proceed into an area of radiation if you were in the mock-up situation?
191 ROLLIN:
That would depend on the HP who'd be monitoring.
He'd be with us.
21, FASANO:
And he would have a meter and monitor it and then give you appro-22!
priate clothing and whatever?
24i I
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31 1
ROLLIN:
He would no doubt tell us what to wear.
And we would ge". it.
But 2!
then its our job to go in and evaluate the problem.
l 3l 4
FASANO:
Okay.
You had a similar situation here.
The two of you were Sj involved in a very similar situation.
One could take that one isolated 6
case where you had to go in and close the door. Was the~same approach 7
taken ca was it taken differently than, say, on that training where you g
went in to do something?
3 9!
ROLLIN:
101 Well, we went to our designated location for the emergency, we y
contacted HP, HP in turn informed us what had to be done.
Now, Sam Jules was there and he heard this but he didn't really say ar.ything at to what hanpened.
Bob McCann just told us what had to be done.
Said here's the 131 stuff you need, and it was done.
So, it was in line with the drill.
Didn't do any good it seemed, but...
16!
[ASANO:
Okay.
So, if you want to continue any other comments now, do you?
18t ROLLIN:
Your question about any other, or the condition of the plant pr16e to the accident...
20:
21 l
FASANO:
Yes, like the maintenance efforts, I guess usually on an autage'
~
22!
[
you are concentrating on the one that's out, at least the people I talked 231 to earlier, the shift before you.
They were pretty much working en Unit 1 24 getting makeup filters and stuff like that.
So, I was wondering if you had 25i 1
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32 lj a feel for how Unit 2 was as far as jobs that you had lined up to do, or in 2f the past what you were doing.
3:
10 t.' IN:
I had a feel for the, type of jobs?
4 Si FASANO:
6 Lil.a valve packings or particularly did you do any work around the eme' gency feedwater system? Because there was valves that ware closed 7{
r ere 'and the.instrbment air system, was there any work that you people had 8t been invoived with whether it was a cronic problem that you can recall?
g 10t 11:
1-ROLLIN: Well, We always had acid leaks on the neutralizing tank that you 12,.
p-obably know recut, and the water purification.
There was always something J,
stuck in the line scaewhere, or caustic line leaking someplace.
p 1E, FASANO:
Other than that then, it seems like it was a normai plant?
s
.6i 17!
18t
-ROLLIN: Our contact with Unit 2 was minor jobs that the foreman would lefve for us in the evenings and nights, mainly.
And it didn't run into 1
19F big jobs because there were two of us.
So, we would have... pick out valve 20
_ packing or adjust a pump or change oil.
21Y; 22l FASANO:
Just one other questici on dhe valve packing.
If you did a valve 23l pp: king,1s it done under work request?
Q qi 25,
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33 I
l ROLLIN:
Yes.
1 l
2 FASANO: And does the shift supervisor or the shift foreman, is he kncw-3 4!
ledgeable of that and do you use a tagging procedure?
Si l
ROLLIN:
When a work request is started, you take it into the shift foreman 6
y to find c"t if you can do it and if the plant will allow that system to be 8l is lateo and so we can work on it.
He says "yes" and the man in charge makes out a tagging application, submits that to the foreman.
He checks it 9!
d ** th' 'hi#t "^I"t*"*"C" # "*"^" ^"d th*" h*"d5 it t hi' '*It'hi"9 Oi and tagging operator to be hung.
11!
12h FASANO:
They, operations, does the hanging also?
13l 14; ROLLIN:
Yes. Operations hangs the tags and repositions the valves and then its up to the person in charge who has his name on the tags to check i
the alignment, the breakers and valves and whatever. And, when he's satis-17' fied that its in a safe condition to work, then he okay's his tags and they ISi do the repair.
191 20!
FASANO:
When you, maintenance, do ;.aw job Jnd then, I guess, the tags are removed by you or by...?
22l 231 l
ROLLIN:
We do the job and if its felt necessary by the shift foreman or 24{
the shift maintenance foreman they come down and check IM jcb because 25l c9
I f
i j
34
!lj there's an acceptance criteria, job complete, or whatever line on the back.
2 And once that's signed then its handed to the shift foreman and at that 3
p int you clear your tags and then if he's satisfied and doesn't have to 1
k at it...
Let's see.
He signs it when he's satisfied that the jobs 4
1 done.
If he feels he has to go look at it he does.
The tags are cleared...
I Si FASANO: What does that mean, cleared?
7f 8!
ROLLIN:
The tags are cleared meaning they're removed and the valves are g
returned to their original position.
That is done by the operators and is checked by the control room operator who is on switching and tagging as to 11:
any more verification, that's up to operations.
i 131 FASANO: And to your knowledge, this was been a fact that this always goes on... that you people do and its a routine that you don't jump over this.
1_,.
You don't do a job without...
17 ROLLIN:
You don't avoid tags? At times there's a valve in line that's operating that may need a packing adjustment, alright? You have to adjust 19t a pump packing while its rotating or you stand a good chance of burning it 20!
up.
Sometimes there's a valve that's leaking a corrosive liquid and you 21!
don't want to change the position of it.
You just want to tighten down on 22!
i t.
So, in those cases where no valve position or don't change the...
23!
241 g:. >
25i cql A
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35 i
1; FASANO: Water stoppage...
I 2!
3j ROLLIN:
System of the...
4 gj FASANO:
Function...
Si 7j ROLLIN: Of whatevers going on, they let that go as, and usually the foreman gj is down there with you if that's the case.
9!
FASANO:
10!
So, operations is always apparently in control of their systems.
11!
,y ROLLIN:
Yes.
13l FASANO:
14, I have no further questions.
15!
ROGERS:
This will conclude the interview with Donald Nebinger and John L.
y Rollin, Jr.
The time 2:05 p.m., July 3,1979.
Thank you, gentlemen.
18!
19i 20l 2 14 22!
231 1
24!
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