ML19141A139
| ML19141A139 | |
| Person / Time | |
|---|---|
| Site: | Turkey Point  |
| Issue date: | 05/01/2019 |
| From: | William Burton NRC/NRR/DMLR/MRPB |
| To: | |
| Burton W, (301) 415-6332 | |
| Shared Package | |
| ML19198A167 | List: |
| References | |
| NRC-0300 | |
| Download: ML19141A139 (55) | |
Text
Official Transcript of Proceedings NUCLEAR REGULATORY COMMISSION
Title:
Preliminary Results of the NRC Staff's Environmental Review for Turkey Point Nuclear Generating Units 3 and 4 Subsequent License Renewal Public Meeting - Evening Session Docket Number:
(n/a)
Location:
Homestead, Florida Date:
Wednesday, May 1, 2019 Work Order No.:
NRC-0300 Pages 1-53 NEAL R. GROSS AND CO., INC.
Court Reporters and Transcribers 1323 Rhode Island Avenue, N.W.
Washington, D.C. 20005 (202) 234-4433
1 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 (202) 234-4433 UNITED STATES OF AMERICA NUCLEAR REGULATORY COMMISSION
+ + + + +
PRELIMINARY RESULTS OF THE NRC STAFF'S ENVIRONMENTAL REVIEW FOR TURKEY POINT NUCLEAR GENERATING UNITS 3 AND 4 SUBSEQUENT LICENSE RENEWAL
+ + + + +
WEDNESDAY MAY 1, 2019
+ + + + +
The Public Meeting was convened in Homestead, Florida at 6:00 p.m., Mr. Mussatti, Facilitator, presiding.
PRESENT:
DANIEL MUSSATTI, Facilitator RAY MCKINLEY, Acting Director of Office of License and Renewal WILLIAM "BUTCH" BURTON, Project Manager
2 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 (202) 234-4433 CONTENTS Welcome and Introductions..........................3 NRC's Regulatory Role.............................15 License Renewal Process...........................16 Environmental Review Process......................17 Environmental Review Findings.....................19 Next Steps........................................21 Public Comments...................................26 Adjourn...........................................53
3 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 (202) 234-4433 P R O C E E D I N G S 1
(6:00 p.m.)
2 MR. MUSSATTI: Hello, my name Dan 3
Mussatti and I am your Facilitator for today. NRC 4
has asked me to be here to manage this meeting, to 5
make sure that it says on topic as much as possible, 6
that we gather as much information as possible, and 7
that we stay, at the same time, on schedule. Which 8
means that we have about two hours to be able to do 9
this.
10 Not a lot of wiggle room because the 11 people that are with the City Hall have to stay here 12 as long as we do, and they're volunteering their time 13 so that we can have this meeting tonight. We don't 14 want to impose on that or take advantage of that too 15 much.
16 Today if you are wondering where you are, 17 this is a public meeting to discuss the preliminary 18 results for the environmental review for Turkey Point 19 Nuclear Generating Units Numbers 3 and 4.
20 And this is the second of these meetings 21 that we had. There was one earlier today, and this 22 will be the last one that we're going to have before 23 we take this information back with us, go over all of 24 the comments that you have given and incorporate that 25
4 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 (202) 234-4433 into the Final Environmental Impact Statement, which 1
will represent our assessment of the potential 2
impacts of the continued operation of Units 3 and 4.
3 A few pieces of business before we get 4
started. The NRC is a safety organization. Our 5
whole goal is the safe operation, the civilian 6
operation of nuclear materials, and in that we get to 7
get to be safety on most everything, so I'm going to 8
start there.
9 If for some reason we have a reason to 10 have to evacuate this building, bed bugs, fire alarm, 11 anything like that, what we want to do is we want to 12 leave as orderly as possible, as fast as possible.
13 Which means the door to my right, over here, where 14 you all came in, and the door to the left over here, 15 will both be available to you.
16 What we want to do is leave and gather 17 outside at Washington Avenue, which is on the other 18 side of the building here, I believe. It's over this 19 direction? Thank you, sir. I have my constabulary 20 in the back in the room correcting me. And we're 21 going to gather over there and then we will take roll 22 call, so that we will know that everybody actually 23 got out, which is the reason why we've got you filling 24 out the sign-in form in the other room. It's my only 25
5 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 (202) 234-4433 way to know that your head wasn't left in the building 1
when we do a head count. So please make sure that 2
you have signed in so you can be a part of that.
3 If you have a great urge that you need to 4
go out of this room for a few minutes, the mens room 5
is off over to the right. The ladies room is over 6
off to the left over here through these doors. But 7
if you exit through these doors you will not be able 8
to enter back through those doors because they are 9
sealed off for security purposes. You'll have to go 10 all the way back around and come back through the 11 security group over on this side. That's the only 12 kind of a bummer about the arrangement of the room, 13 is that there is that little bit of a distance 14 impediment.
15 Like I said before, for exiting, you are 16 more than welcome to use either door to get through 17 here.
18 Right now, has everybody filled out a 19 card for us if they want to speak? The only way that 20 I know that you want to speak is if you have filled 21 out one of these cards, like Scott is bringing forward 22 for me now. Another person has signed in. Thank 23 you.
24 And if you want to speak and somewhere 25
6 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 (202) 234-4433 during the middle of the meeting you decide that the 1
spirit has moved you but you hadn't filled out one of 2
these at the beginning, please exit out. Find the 3
people at the table over there, fill out one of those 4
cards and get it to Scott or to me somehow so that I 5
can get you into the list of people that want to 6
speak. But otherwise this is my only way of knowing 7
that you really are interested in making a comment 8
for us.
9 Today's meeting is a Category 3 meeting, 10 and that's kind of NRC language for a very specific 11 type of a meeting that deals with public input.
12 It's divided into three parts. The first 13 part is going to be a bunch of introductory slides, 14 the first of which you see up on the screen above you 15 here, that will be presented by the office that is 16 manning this project here for the relicensing. And 17 that will start out with Ray McKinley who is the 18 Acting or Deputy. What's the proper term? Acting 19 Deputy Director for the division that he's in. He'll 20 introduce himself, 21 talk for a few minutes. He's associated with the 22 project.
23 And then we'll follow it with Butch. If 24 you have a problem, he's the one that you want to 25
7 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 (202) 234-4433 talk to because here's the Project Manager.
1 And after they get done with their 2
introductory comments, there's a good chance that 3
we're going to have left you with this feeling that 4
you don't understand how the process goes, why we're 5
doing things the way we do it, what in the world is 6
our logic.
7 So what we're going to do is open up the 8
second segment of the meeting, which is a public 9
question and answer period, where you will ask us 10 questions about the process only. We're not going 11 to take questions about the actual plant, about any 12 of the aspects of the environmental project at the 13 plant, only about the process: Why is your deadline 14 this late; why did you only give us 30 days for this 15 period here; when is our next opportunity to do 16 things. These sorts of things, and we will answer 17 those to the best of our ability.
18 Then we will start the final part of the 19 meeting, which is the most important part, which is 20 the public comment period. And at this time you may 21 think that the NRC is very stoic and very quiet. But 22 we are not going to be answering directed questions 23 here because these are very highly technical 24 questions, especially if this morning is any 25
8 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 (202) 234-4433 indication as to they type of comments that we're 1
going to be getting.
2 And we don't think it's really fair for 3
us to have to answer technical questions without 4
having a chance to read up and to get caught up, back 5
up to speed on everything. And to avoid us making a 6
misstatement, we are going to listen to your comments, 7
accept them gracefully, and we are going to take them 8
back with us and consider them at that time.
9 But we will probably, unless it's a very, 10 very, very simple question, we're not going to answer 11 any questions. We're just going to listen during 12 that last period.
13 Like I said, today the Agenda starts out 14 with Ray McKinley and then follows up with Butch, and 15 then we'll move on into this process questions and 16 answers, and then we'll move in to just taking 17 comments from the group.
18 A couple of things about the comment 19 period here. First of all, this whole meeting is 20 going to be recorded and it's being transcribed so 21 that we can get a real accurate transcript of this 22 for in the public record.
23 To do that we need to ask some things of 24 you. If you have a cell phone, we're asking that you 25
9 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 (202) 234-4433 shut it off. If it's possible for you to shut it off 1
and not have to worry about a sick family member at 2
home, or you don't have to worry about there might be 3
an emergency call that I have to take for my job or 4
anything like that, please turn your phone off.
5 If you must leave your phone on for some 6
reason, put it on vibrate so that we don't have to 7
worry about everybody in the room enjoying your 8
marachi theme-song music for the ring tone, and you 9
can exit the room quietly to the right and then start 10 talking on your conversation. To minimizes the backfeed 11 on the microphones and the chance for us to get a bad 12 part on the transcript.
13 The other thing is, in the same vein, if 14 somebody is talking we don't want to have a lot of 15 sidebar conversations going on in the room because they 16 tend to make it hard for the people transcribing to 17 hear the record that's being recorded to get that 18 accurate transcript. And there's nothing worse than 19 having a transcript that you've got to approve and 20 it's got a second in there with braces that says, 21 garbled, or something like that. We really want to 22 make sure that we get as accurate as possible a read 23 on this as we can.
24 We have about two hours to get this done, 25
10 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 (202) 234-4433 and that's not a lot of time. This morning when we 1
had the meeting we filled it up rather quickly with 2
speakers, and we ran right up to the bitter end on 3
it.
Normally we ask for like a three to five-4 minute time limit on your discussion here. We don't 5
have that many speakers yet, so I'm going to play it 6
a little bit loosey-goosey as we start. But it may 7
get to the point where it looks like we might not get 8
to everybody if we don't enforce a time limit on 9
people speaking.
10 And the people this afternoon, some of 11 them felt that a little bit. And like I said, we're 12 going to start out with being a little bit looser.
13 But because I happened to cut off one of 14 our final speakers so that we could get to everybody 15 at once, I'm going to let him speak first. People 16 that have spoken this morning are going to be the 17 last speakers, after everyone that has not spoken has 18 spoken. I think that's only fair, because for the 19 most part we're going to be hearing the same comments 20 from the same people over again, only in an evening 21 setting rather than an early afternoon setting. So 22 we want to make sure that we hear as many different 23 voices as possible. So we're going to hold off on 24 people that have spoken already until the very end.
25
11 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 (202) 234-4433 Except from the gentleman that I stole the microphone 1
from so that we could finish out the day with everyone 2
having a chance to speak.
3 When you do get an opportunity to speak, 4
I'll call you forward and you'll come up to this 5
microphone here. You have to make sure that you're 6
pointed towards the microphone as much as possible, 7
so that we're getting a clear transcript.
8 State your name, first of all, and if 9
your name is a little bit hard to spell or there's a 10 lot of guessing involved in getting the spelling 11 right, it's not Smith or Jones, then spell your name 12 for the transcriber so we can make sure we get it 13 right.
14 And for the record, my name is spelled M-15 u-s-s-a-t-t-i. It's as simple as that. That way we 16 make sure we know who it was that has spoken and what 17 they were speaking about.
18 So even if you have spoken before, we need you 19 to say your name before you start speaking each time 20 you come to the microphone.
21 One last thing. Everybody has opinions 22 and some of the opinions about the environmental 23 issues that are surrounding Turkey Point 3 and 4 are 24 very deeply held. This does not give us the right 25
12 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 (202) 234-4433 to interrupt a speaker if they disagree with you, to 1
have ad hominem comments, blow raspberries, any of 2
those sorts of things that are not productive in the 3
room. We want to make sure there is some decorum in 4
this forum and that we all listen respectfully to 5
people that we do not necessarily agree with.
6 If you feel that there is a need for you 7
to rebut something that somebody has said, you need 8
to have your name on a yellow card so that you can 9
have an opportunity to be invited to the front of the 10 room to speak on the microphone, otherwise you're not 11 going to get that opportunity.
12 So make sure you have filled out a card, 13 or if somebody says something that you think you 14 really need to have an alternative point of view 15 brought forward on, that you have filled out a card 16 and are prepared for that.
17 I don't think I have any other real 18 comments to point out to you. Most of you have been 19 through this kind of meeting before, and we're kind 20 of all adults here, we know how to act. So all we 21 need to do is make sure that we do act that way.
22 And what I want to do now is, I want to 23 ask, are there any quick questions from anybody in 24 the room clarifying anything that I've said so far?
25
13 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 (202) 234-4433 (No response.)
1 MR. MUSSATTI: Okay. If not, what I want 2
to do is turn the meeting over to Ray.
3 MR. MCKINLEY: Thank you. Good evening.
4 My name is Ray McKinley. I'm the Acting Deputy 5
Director for the Division of Materials and License 6
Renewal in NRC's Office of Nuclear Reactor 7
Regulation.
8 I'd like to thank you for attending 9
today's meeting, and this gives us an opportunity to 10 communicate the preliminary results of our 11 environmental review.
12 FPL submitted its subsequent license 13 renewal application in January of 2018. It is the 14 first application submitted by a licensee requesting 15 operation of the nuclear unit for as long as 80 years.
16 The NRC staff since been conducting 17 safety and environmental reviews and we have 18 considered information provided in the application, 19 additional information provided by the public during 20 the Scoping process, staff audits and FPL responses 21 to staff requests for additional information.
22 We hope that today's meeting will be 23 informative to you and that we also would suggest and 24 recommend that you submit comments for our review and 25
14 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 (202) 234-4433 get the environmental review. Thank you.
1 And I'll turn it over to Butch.
2 MR. BURTON: Thanks, Ray.
3 Everybody can hear me okay?
Any 4
problems?
(No response.)
5 MR. BURTON: There were some problems 6
this morning. I want to make sure we don't have 7
that.
8 Good afternoon. My name is Butch Burton.
9 I'm the Environmental Project Manager in the Division 10 of Materials and License Renewal at the NRC. I'm 11 overseeing the NRC staff's environmental review of 12 the license renewal application submitted by Florida 13 Power and Light requesting a 20 year extension to the 14 current operating licenses for Turkey Point Units 3 15 and 4.
16 The staff issued its Draft Supplemental 17 Environmental Impact Statement on March 29th of this 18 year, and will update its review results after 19 considering any comments that may be provided before 20 the deadline of May 20th, including any comments you-21 all may have to provide either verbally or in writing 22 this evening.
23 In addition to Ray McKinley, we also have 24 a number of NRC staff here who also participated in 25
15 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 (202) 234-4433 the environmental review.
1 And, I'm starting to work through the 2
slides. Hopefully everybody has a set to follow 3
with.
4 This is the Agenda for this evening's 5
meeting. I'll first present the NRC's regulatory 6
role and the purpose and need for the proposed action.
7 I'll then briefly discuss the environmental review 8
process, including the resource areas that are 9
reviewed, and how the environmental impacts are 10 defined.
11 Next I'll summarize the preliminary 12 results and conclusion from the staff's environmental 13 review for the renewal of Units 3 and 4 licenses.
14 Finally I'll finish up by going over the 15 NRC's schedule for completing its environmental 16 review, how you can contact us and how you can submit 17 comments on this review.
18 The NRC is a
Federal Agency that 19 regulates the civilian use of nuclear materials. The 20 Agency's authority comes from several statutes 21 including the Atomic Energy Act and the Energy 22 Reorganization Act.
23 The Atomic Energy Act authorizes the NRC 24 to grant 40 year operating licenses for nuclear power 25
16 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 (202) 234-4433 plants. This 40-year term was based primarily on 1
economic considerations and antitrust factors, not on 2
safety or technical limitations.
3 The Atomic Energy Act also allows for 4
renewals of operating licenses. When it receives an 5
application for license renewal, the NRC conducts 6
both a safety and an environmental review of the 7
application.
8 The NRC's environmental review is 9
performed in accordance with the National 10 Environmental Policy Act, otherwise known as NEPA.
11 This Act established a
national policy for 12 considering environmental impacts and provides the 13 basic architecture for federal environmental reviews.
14 All federal agencies must follow a 15 systematic approach in evaluating potential impacts 16 and assessing alternatives for proposed actions. By 17 law the NEPA process involves public participation 18 and public disclosure.
19 In conducting any review the NRC's 20 mission is threefold: To ensure adequate protection 21 of public health and safety, to promote the common 22 defense and security, and to protect the environment.
23 The specific objective of the NRC's 24 license renewal review is to determine whether the 25
17 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 (202) 234-4433 nuclear power plant can continue to be safely operated 1
for an additional 20 years and to determine the 2
environmental impacts from such continued operations.
3 This slide shows the licensing history of 4
Units 3 and 4. I won't dwell on some of the prior 5
dates. You can see them up there.
6 But in particular, in January of 2018, 7
Florida Power and Light submitted an application to 8
renew these licenses for a second time, such that if 9
the licenses are approved, they would expire on July 10 19th, 2052 and April 10th, 2053 for Units 3 and 4 11 respectively.
12 The staff documents its environmental 13 review in an Environmental Impact Statement which is 14 made publicly available. We've recognized that some 15 environmental impacts related to license review are 16 similar across multiple plants, and therefore to 17 improve efficiency, we use a generic Environmental 18 Impact Statement that addresses a number of impacts 19 that are common to all nuclear power plants or a 20 distinct subset of plants.
21 As part of our environmental review, the 22 staff re-examines the conclusions reached in the 23 generic EIS to determine if there is any new and 24 significant information that would change the 25
18 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 (202) 234-4433 conclusions in the generic EIS.
1 We also supplement the generic EIS with 2
a discussion of environmental impacts that are 3
specific to a particular power plant being reviewed.
4 As part of this supplement the staff 5
determines if there are any potentially new issues 6
that should be included in our environmental review.
7 The staff obtains information to support 8
the site's specific review from information provided 9
in the license renewal application, from 10 consultations with Federal, State, Tribal and local 11 government
- agencies, from our own independent 12 environmental review, including site visits and 13 audits, and from public comments.
14 With respect to Turkey Point, the staff 15 has completed the draft of our site specific 16 Environmental Impact Statement, which we published, 17 as I mentioned before, on March 29th of this year.
18 The draft is available on the NRC's 19 website and the URL is given at the end of this 20 presentation.
21 For the environmental review the NRC 22 looks at a wide range of environmental resources and 23 evaluates the impacts to those resources from the 24 continued operation of the nuclear power plant.
25
19 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 (202) 234-4433 This slide identifies the resource areas 1
the NRC reviews. And I'll give you a moment to take 2
a look at some of those.
3 (Pause.)
4 The NRC staff addresses each 5
environmental resource area by analyzing in detail 6
the impacts that operation of the power plant may 7
have on the resource area. The staff then 8
characterizes these impacts as small, moderate or 9
large.
10 As you can see from the slide, these 11 definitions are based on whether the impacts are 12 detectable and whether the impacts are substantial 13 enough to alter the resource.
14 For some environmental resource areas the 15 characterization of impacts is dictated by statutes 16 or Executive Orders. The definition of the impacts 17 and the implementing legislation for threatened and 18 endangered species and essential fish habitats are 19 shown on this slide.
20 The definition of the impacts and the 21 implementing legislation for cultural and historic 22 resources and environmental justice are shown on this 23 slide.
24 And here's where we get to it. These 25
20 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 (202) 234-4433 next two slides summarize the NRC's findings 1
regarding the environmental impacts associated with 2
the continued operation of Units 3 and 4 for an 3
additional 20 years.
4 As you can see from this slide, the 5
majority of the resource areas continue to experience 6
small impacts from extended operation. I'll give you 7
just a second to look over those.
8 (Pause.)
9 For the groundwater and aquatic resource 10 areas, the impacts would be small to moderate.
11 For both resources the continued 12 operation of Units 3 and 4 for an additional 20 years 13 may noticeably alter the
- resource, but not 14 destabilize the key attributes of the resource.
15 For example, the continued operation of 16 FPL's Upper Floridan aquifier production wells, 17 particularly the freshening well system, will likely 18 affect offsite well systems by increasing draw down 19 in the aquifer beyond that currently being 20 experienced due to regional groundwater production 21 alone.
22 Additionally, the impingement and 23 entrainment of some aquatic species in the cooling 24 canal system are expected to continue, but will be 25
21 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 (202) 234-4433 limited due to the layout of the cooling canal system.
1 With respect to special status species 2
and habitats, the continued operation of Units 3 and 3
4 is likely to adversely affect the American Crocodile 4
and the Eastern Indigo Snake and may result in adverse 5
modification to the critical habitat of the American 6
Crocodile.
7 Finally, the continued operation of Units 8
3 and 4 for an additional 20 years would not adversely 9
affect known historic or cultural resources and there 10 is no evidence that continued operation of the units 11 would disproportionally and adversely impact minority 12 or low income communities.
13 The National Environmental Policy Act 14 also requires that we take a hard look at the impacts 15 of the continued operation of Units 3 and 4 in 16 combination with other past, present and reasonably 17 foreseeable future actions in the area.
18 The future actions that were considered 19 for the cumulative impacts analysis are shown on this 20 slide. The impacts for climate change were also 21 considered as part of the staff's cumulative impacts 22 analysis.
23 The National Policy Environmental Policy 24 Act also requires the NRC to consider alternatives to 25
22 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 (202) 234-4433 issuing renewed operating licenses and the 1
environmental impacts associated with those 2
alternatives.
3 Accordingly, the Draft EIS includes a 4
discussion of alternatives, including identification 5
of alternatives not considered and the basis for 6
removing them from further consideration and an 7
evaluation of the environmental impacts of the 8
remaining alternatives.
9 The alternatives that the NRC staff 10 evaluated in depth were new nuclear generation, 11 natural gas combined cycle generation, and a 12 combination of natural gas and solar photovoltaic 13 generation.
14 The NRC staff also evaluated a no action 15 alternative, which looked at the impacts if Units 3 16 and 4 licenses are not renewed.
17 Finally, the NRC staff evaluated the 18 environmental impacts from using mechanical draft 19 cooling towers instead of the existing cooling canal 20 system.
21 Based on its evaluation of the 22 environmental impacts of operating Turkey Point Units 23 3 and 4 for an additional 20 years, the NRC's 24 preliminary recommendation is that any adverse 25
23 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 (202) 234-4433 environmental impacts of renewing the Unit 3 and 4 1
licenses are not so great that preserving the option 2
of license renewal for energy planning decision 3
makers would be unreasonable.
4 This slide shows important milestones for 5
the environmental review process. The date for 6
completion of the final Environmental Impact 7
Statement is an estimate. As you can see, that's 8
August, but that will depend on the number of comments 9
that we get on the Draft EIS and how long it will 10 take us to work through those. So, the August date 11 is an estimate.
12 The Draft EIS can be viewed at these local 13 public libraries. You can also find it on the NRC 14 website at this address.
15 This slide provides links to several 16 important web pages. The website for Turkey Point 17 has links to the license renewal application, the 18 environmental report, the current schedule and the 19 project managers for the plant.
20 If you would like to receive 21 correspondence related to the project, you can join 22 the Turkey Point Listserv at the link on the slide.
23 And that would be item number three, Turkey Point 24 Listserv.
25
24 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 (202) 234-4433 For additional information you can 1
contact me, and my contact information is provided 2
here.
3 This slide shows how you can submit 4
comments on the Draft EIS. Comments will be accepted 5
through May 20th and can be submitted by mail, by 6
email or through the regulations.gov website. We'll 7
leave this slide up for the remainder of the meeting.
8 This completes the presentation and I'll 9
turn it back to Dan.
10 MR. MUSSATTI: All right, thank you, 11 Butch.
12 One thing I do want to stress again, that 13 Butch just finished on, and that is the fact that we 14 are taking public comments in writing all the way up 15 through the 20th of the month.
16 A lot of times when you speak in here, 17 what you say is you think exactly what you wanted to 18 say and it doesn't come out that way, or we don't 19 understand it because we're not hearing it correctly.
20 It's always a good idea if you have made a public 21 statement verbally, to follow it up with a written 22 transcript that will allow you to be able to craft 23 your language to get it as close to exactly what you 24 wanted to say as close as possible.
25
25 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 (202) 234-4433 This is especially important when I've 1
seen a handful of people that have come up here with 2
scripts in their hands that they wanted to speak, and 3
they've got editing that they have done on it. And 4
it's hard to read through that editing when you have 5
the pressure of the crowd in front of you and speaking 6
in public and these sorts of things, so things can 7
get a little garbled. Clean up those notes and please 8
send them in to us. It's important for us to get as 9
accurate a comment as possible from you so that we 10 know what in the world we're supposed to be looking 11 at.
12 So with that I'd like to open up this 13 middle section of this Category 3 meeting, which is 14 asking questions of the staff about our process. And 15 I would like to reiterate here that we are talking 16 about process.
17 We wandered off into the environmental 18 world and we wandered off into the regulatory impact 19 analysis world this morning, and we do not want to do 20 that. We're asking questions, clarifying for you 21 right now, anything that you don't understand about 22 why we do things the way that we do in general. Not 23 just for Turkey Point 3 and 4.
24 Why is it that we have a two-step process, 25
26 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 (202) 234-4433 or why is it there's a 30-day period in this section 1
of it; how do you do these other things that you want 2
to do. Those kind of questions. Not about Turkey 3
Point 3 and 4 in particular.
4 Is that fairly clear?
5 (No response.)
6 MR. MUSSATTI: Okay. So I'm going to 7
open it up now. Do we have any questions from the 8
floor about the process?
9 (No response.)
10 MR. MUSSATTI: I think we did a pretty 11 good job in explaining what we do.
12 All right. I'm going to take advantage 13 of this to get as much time for us into the comment 14 period so we can get as many speakers as possible.
15 Like I said earlier, I'm going to play a little bit 16 loose with the three to five minute rule, but I wanted 17 to see if everyone can at least try to be concise a 18 bit.
19 And if you have spoken earlier today, we 20 have several speakers that have signed up again, we're 21 going to save you until the end because we want to 22 make sure we get as many different voices as possible.
23 I think that's only fair.
24 But for right now I think I need to do a 25
27 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 (202) 234-4433 verbal apology to somebody that I almost literally 1
took the microphone away from him so that we could 2
make sure everyone got to speak this morning, and 3
that's Steve Schoedinger, who was in the middle of a 4
compelling discussion when he was asked to give the 5
microphone over.
6 So, if you could conclude those remarks 7
from this morning, please.
8 MR. SCHOEDINGER: Thank you.
9 My name is Steve Schoedinger, I'm a 10 resident of Ocean Reef and Chair of Water Resources 11 Advisory Committee to North Key Largo Utility 12 District. I'm a professional engineer for over 40 13 years, specializing in water quality and water 14 treatment.
15 And what I'd like to talk about a little 16 bit is the use of water resources for the various 17 alternatives that are evaluated in the EIS for the 18 Turkey Point plant.
19 The two alternatives, especially as it 20 relates to the cooling water systems that are being 21 looked at, which are either cooling towers or to 22 continue with the canals, the open canals that are 23 there.
24 Presently the source of the water for the 25
28 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 (202) 234-4433 canals is out of the Floridan, which is brackish 1
water, which contributes somewhere between a million 2
and a half pounds of salt per day into those canals, 3
which is, you know, part of the problem that we're 4
identifying today. Over decades that's generated 5
part of the problem we're dealing with at this point 6
in the admissions to the Bay.
7 If you look at the Floridan going into 8
cooling towers, then you don't deal with the impacts 9
of salt into a body of water that might leach into 10 surrounding resources. It is truly a closed-loop 11 system, and it would, at that point, be used to cool 12 and you'd use much less, because in order to use the 13 canals, out of the Floridan, you have to generate 30 14 million gallons a day more than you really need for 15 the process to allow for the evaporation that takes 16 place daily over 6,000 acres of these 3-foot deep, 20 17 and 50-foot wide canals. And that's a horrendous 18 use, a horrible use of water resources for South 19 Florida.
20 We are growing more and more reliant on 21 the Floridan for our drinking water. For example, 22 FKA, a third of the capacity at that plant is an RO 23 plant that takes water from the Floridan in order to 24 serve the Florida Keys.
25
29 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 (202) 234-4433 And I think at this point that is a 1
serious resource. We have a drought in North Florida 2
where the Floridan takes it water, you know, then the 3
water levels in the Floridan could drop down to levels 4
which would impact the operation of a lot of water 5
supply, irrigation systems that are being used, and 6
maybe in some case drinking water systems.
7 So, you know, you really don't have to 8
deal with that and you're talking about 10,000 maybe 9
gallons per day of blow down, which I think could get 10 agglomerated and maybe disposed in a landfill or it 11 could be put down to the Boulder Zone, which seems to 12 be where all the other unwanted waste goes these days.
13 But at any rate, it doesn't go to the 14 Bay, it doesn't go to the well fields west. All that 15 is eliminated.
16 And we are a supporter of use of reclaim 17 water. We use reclaim water in our RO system that 18 we use on the golf courses and the common areas.
19 So I think the idea -- I hope it's very 20 successful that Miami-Dade and Florida Power and 21 Light will reach a deal to provide reclaim water.
22 Now reclaim water going into the canals, 23 you have to almost treat it to drinking water 24 standards to be at non-degradation levels to not 25
30 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 (202) 234-4433 impact the Bay when it leaks out of the canals.
1 So in that scenario, $500 million plus on 2
a tertiary plant, an RO plant, that Miami-Dade or 3
FP&L would have to pay for to make this deal work.
4 If you use cooling towers you can use 5
sewage affluent that doesn't have to be treated to 6
drinking water standards. It can be advance treated, 7
they call it. It's done all over the U.S. and the 8
world, and used in cooling towers and nuclear power 9
plants, and it can be treated at a much less level.
10 And of course treatment is exponentially, when you 11 try to get finer and finer quality it goes up 12 exponentially, and that price tag will be half, 250 13 to $300 million dollars.
14 So you got 250. There's a difference.
15 And that alternative goes into cooling towers. And 16 like I already said, it doesn't go into any canals, 17 it doesn't hit the Bay, it doesn't go west. You 18 know, the spent water goes down into the Boulder Zone.
19 And the other idea on the reclaim water.
20 Again, you don't have the problem with the canals.
21 You're not losing 30 million gallons a day. Miami-22 Dade's going to treat 60 million gallons, which they 23 want, to come over to use 30 million gallons in the 24 process, and then 30 million to evaporate out of 25
31 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 (202) 234-4433 canals.
1 And imagine 30 million gallons a day of 2
almost drinking water being evaporated into the air, 3
and you're talking 10, $20 million a year to operate 4
a system. I mean it's such a poor use of our water 5
resources to just waste 30 million when you don't 6
have to.
7 So I think that was the point I wanted to 8
make this morning. I think the 200 million in the 9
savings, that if you built a plant, less costly.
10 There's all this discussion about the cost of 11 cooling towers. Well, Bill Powers' report has been 12 looked at over and over, and I think the number of 13 400 million is a very accurate number of the capital 14 costs for the cooling towers that would serve Turkey 15 Point Reactors 3 and 4, which is one of the 16 alternatives.
17 And the 200 million that you would save 18 in not having to build a drinking water plant and use 19 just tertiary from Miami-Dade, could be applied by 20 FP&L to fund that cost.
21 So, I mean, you know, we went through the 22 numbers and I know that the NRC people have looked at 23 the cost effectiveness on a cost effective life cycle 24 basis. There's no way the canals even come close.
25
32 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 (202) 234-4433 So I just want you guys, when you consider 1
things, just the impact on the water resources, which 2
is a factor you consider, and the impact on also the 3
Bay. I think it's a two for one here if we go with 4
cooling towers, which are really recommended in the 5
alternatives. And I'm not advocating so much for 6
cooling towers, I'm just against continued use of the 7
canals for another 40 years, because I don't think 8
that they're safe and the most cost effective way to 9
use our water resources. Thank you.
10 MR. MUSSATTI: Okay. Thank you very 11 much. And please make sure we get a transcript from 12 you. There's a lot of notes right there.
13 Vivian Gutierrez. She's with the League 14 of Women Voters. We heard one of her compadres this 15 morning and now we're going to hear from her.
16 MS. GUTIERREZ: Good afternoon, my name 17 is Vivian Gutierrez and I'm a member of the League of 18 Women Voters of Miami-Dade County.
19 We at the League, together with other 20 community leaders from the
- County, have been 21 following FPL's persistent attempts to renew their 22 Turkey Point cooling canals permit for over two years 23 now.
24 We are deeply concerned of the 25
33 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 (202) 234-4433 environmental and economic impact these cooling 1
canals are having on Biscayne Bay and our fresh water 2
drinking supply, Biscayne aquifier.
3 Even more concerning perhaps is FP&L's 4
lack of concern for the health and welfare of our 5
community and our customers, which grant them access 6
to a very profitable business and location.
7 Since Turkey Pont's cooling canal system 8
has been leaking nutrient-rich hyper-saline water 9
into Biscayne Bay and aquifer for over 30 years, 80 10 percent of Biscayne Bay's seagrass and 50 percent of 11 Biscayne aquifer have been destroyed.
12 For over 30 years FP&L has been quietly 13 dumping 3 million pounds of salt per day into Biscayne 14 Bay and aquifer. Biscayne aquifer is Miami-Dade's 15 only source of drinking water. FP&L has now applied 16 for a permit renewal which will add another 30 years 17 to their permit to pollute, taking them to the year 18 2050.
19 It is estimated that if FP&L Turkey Point 20 continues operation of their cooling canals, our 21 drinking water supply will be unusable within 5 to 20 22 years.
23 Finally, it is surprising that the 24 Nuclear Regulatory Commission would consider renewing 25
34 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 (202) 234-4433 a nuclear facility that is antiquated and vulnerable 1
to sea level rise and storm surge.
2 Miami-Dade County community and customers 3
request you to halt your cooling canal operations and 4
provide electricity to us by any one of your 5
alternative methods. Thank you.
6 MR. MUSSATTI: Thank you very much. And 7
you're going to submit that to us or give us a copy 8
of that in writing?
9 MS. GUTIERREZ: Yes. I will submit it.
10 MR. MUSSATTI: Okay, thank you.
11 Jody Steele.
12 MS. STEELE: My name is Jody Steele and 13 I've lived in South Florida for 40 years. We raised 14 two sons here. We've always lived on the water, 15 either in Miami Beach or now in Key Largo. And our 16 sons and now six grandchildren have lived on the water 17 and enjoyed the water, and of course they all drink 18 the water.
19 I was a school principal for 45 years and 20 a teacher. And my mission was to teach children to 21 do the right thing.
22 We have an alternative here, a good 23 alternative that is safe. We are putting things in 24 our water and in our drinking water and in the Bay, 25
35 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 (202) 234-4433 that are dangerous. They're having an effect 1
already.
Turkey Point is located in the 2
worst place. Here we are in a very low level, facing 3
rising sea waters, and then of course hurricanes. So 4
we are in a danger situation. The cooling canals are 5
not the solution. We have a much better solution.
6 And I implore you to consider doing the right thing.
7 Thank you.
8 MR. MUSSATTI: Thank you very much.
9 Steve Shriver. Is there a Steve Shriver 10 in the room? He just stepped out.
11 I have four cards left. I have Steve 12 Shriver and I have three people that have spoken 13 before, so we're going to have plenty of time here.
14 That does not mean we're going to take like, you know, 15 tons and tons of time on each comment. But we'll 16 play it a little bit loose.
17 Is Mr. Shriver available? Mr. Shriver 18 is not available. Okay. So he will be providing 19 written comments only? Okay.
20 Then we will move on to David Guest, who 21 was a speaker this morning.
22 MR. GUEST: I won't repeat what I said 23 this morning, we're kind of short of time. So I'm 24 giving you kind of a different angle on this thing.
25
36 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 (202) 234-4433 These canals are in the aquifer, they're 1
in the Biscayne aquifer. So what you put in there 2
goes into the groundwater. And you hear all these 3
stories we've heard today; people referring to these 4
things as a closed-loop system. It's not. These are 5
canals in the aquifer.
6 And as you heard earlier you have about 7
3 million pounds a day of salt going through into the 8
aquifer. Even FPL, which is known to stretch the 9
truth pretty thin, even they acknowledge 660,000 10 pounds of salt goes into the aquifer every day from 11 operating this system. It's not closed loop. It's 12 aquifer contamination and it's moving at 15 inches a 13 day.
14 We've had five previous plants based on 15 FPL modeling that would stop the salt plume. All 16 five failed completely. It's been moving at 15 17 inches a day for 35 years. And the new plant, number 18 6 model, has what is absolutely necessary for them in 19 it, which is a promise that if this plan fails, like 20 the previous five did, that they'll produce another 21 one. That's the obligation is to just keep on doing 22 experiments. And with the level of contamination we 23 have now, I think the time for experimentation has 24 ended, and indeed ended long ago.
25
37 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 (202) 234-4433 Now the new scheme is even more exotic 1
than the previous ones. Now what we're going to take 2
is treated sewage water and put it into these aquifer 3
canals. There is no honest debate about where 4
there's a direct connect between these aquifer canals 5
and Biscayne Bay. It's established in nine different 6
ways. Nobody's seriously contested it. If you read 7
your EIS, FPL minimizes it, certainly minimizes it, 8
but doesn't deny it. No honest person could even 9
think about denying that.
10 And so what you're talking about doing is 11 putting sewage water into the canals, which goes 12 straight into Biscayne Bay.
13 And what's happening in Florida? There's 14 one big issue that's happening in the Florida 15 environment, and that is the algae crisis. There is 16 an algae crisis on East and West Coast. There's one 17 in the great St. John's River, the biggest river in 18 Florida, that's developing, as we speak. There's 19 emergency measures by the Corps of Engineers, by 20 Governor DeSantis, by the legislatures.
21 There's hundreds of millions of dollars 22 of fixes to try to stop the algae crisis as it is 23 now. But then you want to talk about adding sewage 24 water into Biscayne Bay, which is teetering on the 25
38 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 (202) 234-4433 edge of collapsing like the rest of them have.
1 It's crazy. It's absolutely crazy to be 2
putting sewage water into a place where it's going to 3
go straight into the Bay and risk a broadening toxic 4
algae crisis. It just makes no sense at all.
5 And you guys don't have -- as an 6
alternative, you don't have the straight sea water 7
exchange into Biscayne Bay, like it was long ago.
8 And it's a good reason it's not there. It's because 9
the carnage that it does to the Bay if you do that.
10 Well, that's the standard that you should 11 be operating on. Carnage to the Bay is not a viable 12 alternative. And the sewage plant is just that, it's 13 not a viable alternative, it should be taken off the 14 table. Thank you.
15 MR. MUSSATTI: Thank you, sir. Thank 16 you very much.
17 Next we have Laura Reynolds.
18 MS. REYNOLDS: Thank you. Do you mind 19 if I use the other mic?
20 MR. MUSSATTI: Excuse me? Do you want 21 this mic?
22 MS. REYNOLDS: Is that okay? That way I 23 don't have to hunch over and go like this.
24 MR. MUSSATTI: Make sure you keep it 25
39 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 (202) 234-4433 fairly close.
1 MS. REYNOLDS: Yes, yes. Laura Reynolds 2
representing the Florida Keys Fishing Guides 3
Association.
4 And I did speak earlier today and you did 5
get my handout. For those of you who just got here, 6
there is a poster in the back of the room with a 7
handout, if you'd like to take one. And what that 8
shows is the impact to Biscayne Bay.
9 And I think it's pretty clear that we've 10 been seeing a slow addition of salt and nutrients 11 over 40-plus years of operations. And that shows how 12 it's getting there and what the impact is. So I 13 won't repeat that.
14 But what I do want to talk about is the 15 conflict with Everglades restoration. So for those 16 of you who might not be familiar, there are 68 17 projects around South Florida. There's 2 in the 18 vicinity of the cooling canal system.
19 Now, this is a State and Federal funded 20 project, all 68 of them. And Dade County, for 21 example, their drinking water is predicated on full 22 implementation of CERP. So their consumptive use 23 permit for use of water is predicated on that success.
24 And I wanted to leave this for the record.
25
40 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 (202) 234-4433 I only have one copy. But the report card for 2012 1
through 2017 of Everglades restoration shows that the 2
only poor condition throughout the entire system is 3
in the southern coastal systems, and it gets the 4
lowest rating. And the things that it's rated for 5
are crocodiles, crashing the nesting, salinity, and 6
the prey fish community. All of those things have 7
been affected by the cooling canal system. So not 8
only do you have the salt loading that David Guest 9
talked about, which is in direct conflict with the 10 goals of Biscayne Bay coastal wetlands.
11 The goal stated in the Yellow Book for 12 that project is to bring the near shore environment 13 back to mesohaline conditions. Which essentially 14 means, bring it back to an estuary because it's been 15 getting too salty.
16 And the operations of the plant.
17 Basically all it does is evaporate fresh water and 18 leave behind salt and any contaminants that are in 19 that water. And it does that very well, just like a 20 radiator.
21 And we know that whatever water is being 22 pulled in through the water budget, that gets 23 concentrated over time. That could be a little bit 24 of fertilizer from a farm, it could be the salt from 25
41 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 (202) 234-4433 Biscayne Bay, it could be something from rainfall.
1 And it could also be whatever input you have.
2 So I think it's a good point that Steve 3
Schoedinger made, that if you put in recycled sewage 4
water, you're adding to the problem. Not only EPOCs, 5
but also additional nutrients.
6 So the future water supply to continue 7
operating this plant is very important to think about.
8 And I would argue that generally using nuclear power 9
is a bad choice because of its water demands for South 10 Florida.
11 One of the things that we're lacking for 12 Everglades restoration success is clean, fresh water.
13 We don't have enough of it. And the southern coastal 14 system, like I said, gets the poorest rating out of 15 the entire system, and that includes Lake Okeechobee, 16 which only gets one little red mark. If you look at 17 this whole thing there's not much red on the rest of 18 the system, just Biscayne Bay.
19 So I would argue that the operations of 20 the cooling canal system are in direct conflict with 21 a federally funded project. Two of them, at least, 22 if not more.
23 In addition, you have the C-111 project, 24 which is basically just to the west. Now, the way 25
42 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 (202) 234-4433 that the system operates there's -- I don't remember 1
exactly how many acres it is. But the model land 2
region, which is just west of the cooling canal 3
system, is a series of wetlands.
4 Now recently Dade County in fact 5
documented salinity levels increasing in the surface 6
of those model lands from contamination from the 7
L-31-E traced back to the cooling canal system.
8 Now after Irma those weirs were opened up 9
to flush water out and that salinity level dropped 10 again.
But the canal system actually was 11 contaminated, and so was the surface wetlands to the 12 west. So I think continued operations will continue 13 to contaminate those wetlands, and many of them have 14 been purchased for restoration purposes.
15 In addition, the water levels in that 16 area are kept at 1.8. Now that happens to be the 17 trigger to operate the interceptor ditch pumps. The 18 interceptor ditch pumps actually can pump water into 19 the cooling canal system at about 3 million gallons 20 a day on average.
21 That water would otherwise be available 22 for restoration, would maybe go into Taylor Slough or 23 south into other parts of the system. Instead, it's 24 being pumped into the cooling canal system to keep it 25
43 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 (202) 234-4433 fresher.
1 So in my opinion, a direct conflict with 2
water, water quality, water quantity, and the 3
storage. So if you were able to meet the trigger 4
identified in the Yellow Book for C-111, you would go 5
up to 2.4 to 2.9 feet, holding that water level higher 6
and in fact improving restoration benefits in the 7
area. By keeping it low and staying at that trigger 8
you're losing all of those benefits.
9 And so what I would argue is that you 10 must consider the cumulative effects of what this 11 does to Everglades restoration.
12 Now, I remember talking on the record at 13 the 6 and 7 NRC hearing, saying the same thing; that 14 this is in direct conflict with Everglades 15 restoration. And so, please, consider that. It 16 doesn't seem to have enough weight in your EIS draft, 17 so you need to take another look at really what those 18 conflicts are.
19 And I ask you to go back to the Yellow 20 Book, look at the benefits and see the report on why 21 the coastal systems next to Turkey Point, because 22 there's two projects there, are failing. And I would 23 argue that it's because this system is in direct 24 conflict with it and you wouldn't see any of these 25
44 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 (202) 234-4433 benefits. It masks everything.
1 Okay, thank you.
2 MR. MUSSATTI: Okay, thank you. And once 3
again, a PDF copy of that so that we have an 4
electronic version?
5 MS. REYNOLDS: It doesn't exist.
6 MR.
MUSSATTI:
It doesn't exist.
7 Somebody's going to have to do some magic with that.
8 If you would just hand it to Butch on the way past, 9
he will be responsible for that.
10 MS. REYNOLDS: I can try to email them, 11 but I just have this.
12 MR. MUSSATTI: All right. We'll figure 13 something out. But we do need to have some sort of 14 electronic version if we're going to maintain that 15 record.
16 Okay. It is now about five minutes until 17 7:00. We have until 8:00 o'clock. I really don't 18 want to fill up an hour and five minutes with the 19 last speaker, but we are down to our last speaker and 20 I would like to call her to come up right now. And 21 that would be Bonnie Rippingille.
22 I'm not sure I pronounced that correctly.
23 I'm sorry.
24 Are you going to use the handheld or the 25
45 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 (202) 234-4433 little microphone?
1 MS. RIPPINGILLE: Thank you.
2 This afternoon I spoke to the group and 3
we talked about the many times that FP&L has tried to 4
fix the cooing canal situation with respect to the 5
hyper saline plume, and how every single time it's 6
been unsuccessful.
7 In this case there's no evidence that 8
it's working and that the EIS is premised -- if you 9
read the EIS, that many of the statements that they 10 make and findings they make, are based upon this 11 system working.
12 And you heard from Carolyn McLauglin who 13 said there was no indication that it was working. In 14 fact, we had a statement by several of the speakers 15 that the plume was moving and there was a new report 16 out on wells that were in the western part and that 17 the plume is moving.
18 I didn't address climate change and that 19 fact that it's bringing higher sea levels to Southeast 20 Florida. And it's clear that sea level rise is 21 accelerating faster than previously understood. And 22 it's supposed to be substantially faster in Southeast 23 Florida than any other place in the United States.
24 And you can't ignore this in considering a permit for 25
46 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 (202) 234-4433 another 20 years.
1 The cooling canals are only about two 2
feet above sea level and it's dramatically reducing 3
the amount of available fresh water in the Biscayne 4
aquifer because of salt water intrusion. And that's 5
a real problem for this community in South Florida 6
because we are growing. We are growing and we're 7
going to be continuing to grow, by the looks of it.
8 I know all of you experienced the traffic coming here, 9
and know what it's like to try to even get to work in 10 Miami-Dade County.
11 I wanted to go over with you, I went on 12 a little dive trip about a year ago and we did some 13 sampling. And one of our Auxiliary Coast Guard in 14 Ocean Reef Club, of which Ms. Steele's husband, who's 15 here today, is one of the officers. And we were 16 taken out, and I was present, and we did sample four 17 separate what we call cave or upwelling exits, and we 18 took about two dozen samples.
19 And the photos show that the phosphorous 20 was 1,000 percent greater than average geometric 21 mean. And the nitrogen was 300 percent greater than 22 average geometric mean. And the chlorophyl was 100 23 percent greater than average geometric mean.
24 We were less than a quarter mile from the 25
47 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 (202) 234-4433 FPL plant and the cooling canals. And the well that 1
we were close to was TPGW-14-D, less than one quarter 2
mile east of the southeast corner of the CCS, the 3
cooling canal system.
4 I implore the NRC to extend their date 5
for final EIS a few months if necessary to consider 6
the content of the final issued new NPDES permit, if 7
one is issued, for FPL TPP. I don't know whether you 8
realize, but that permit has not even been a live 9
permit for practically ten years because of all the 10 problems that FDEP recognized with FPL's compliance 11 with the terms of their existing permit. So that's 12 a very important issue.
13 And the records, and I'm happy to supply 14 them to your group, of their non-compliance and what 15 was done about it in administrative hearings and other 16 proceedings, resulted finally in DERM and FTP citing 17 them for violations. And they're still in violation 18 and they're going to continue in violation. And the 19 NPDES permit conveniently appears to make those 20 violations not a violation with respect to the Bay 21 and the coverage under the NPDES permit.
22 And I suggest to you that they know it's 23 not going to work, and that's why they're going for 24 this new permit. And this new permit was submitted 25
48 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 (202) 234-4433 during the final months of the Scott administration.
1 And we didn't find out about it -- the 2
environmental groups didn't find out about it until 3
15 days before the meeting, the public meeting on it.
4 And there was an extension granted, and that meeting 5
is going to take place next week, and we hope that 6
everybody will come back so that we can talk about 7
this again, because they are not in compliance with 8
their permit. They know it, DERM knows it, FDEP 9
knows it.
10 And why would you give an NRC permit for 11 another 20 years to FPL when they're in violation of 12 their permit? And when they're in violation of the 13 DERM and FDEP consent order and consent decree, why 14 would you reward them like this? Because all you're 15 going to do is incentivize them to continue to delay, 16 delay, delay in doing something about those cooling 17 canals.
18 And that's what happens in the state of 19 Florida. And frankly, I was a Judge in Miami-Dade 20 County, and I retired. I went up to the Gulf Coast 21 to work on the post-Katrina recovery with my family 22 and I'm back here again. And I've learned about 23 this. I'm volunteering for my club. I have worked 24 on this for three years. A lot of you saw me at the 25
49 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 (202) 234-4433 last hearing and Commission meetings, and the Florida 1
Keys Marine Sanctuary. And you heard from them today 2
and what they think of the cooling canal system.
3 I have the charts that show what we found 4
there out in that Bay, and I'm going to file them 5
with you. I believe there's also video footage of 6
the dive. I just collected the samples that came in 7
and charted them on the chart. I wasn't diving. But 8
we have video footage of it.
9 So I implore you to look at their non-10 compliance over the last 30, 35 years and ask you to 11 delay granting this license until they show that they 12 can comply with the rules.
13 And you heard from Tom Schievelbein, who ran 14 the naval -- not the naval yard but a nuclear yard up 15 in Norfolk, Virginia. And he said to you, the most 16 important thing is your duty to comply with the rules.
17 Because you're in an area where -- outstanding federal 18 water, the Everglades, from which we get our water 19 supply, on each side of this plant.
20 And we have a lot to lose in Florida.
21 There are millions of people that come here as 22 tourists. Millions. And they spend money and they 23 support business activity in the area. And I want 24 to continue to go and do fish frys. I don't want to 25
50 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 (202) 234-4433 have the Bay pickled, and that's what's happening 1
because everything's dying.
2 There was nothing on the bottom when they 3
were doing the dive. I saw the footage. The 4
seagrass was gone. If you go out to the Arsnicker's 5
the seagrass is gone.
6 Somebody in Ocean Reef said to me, well, 7
I went fishing in the Arsnicker's and it was clear, 8
you know, really clear water. They must have done 9
something about it. Rich, I said, it's clear because 10 the seagrass is all gone, the bottom is bare so the 11 water's very clear out there.
12 So anyway, this is what we need to do as 13 a country, we need to follow the rules and we need 14 the Nuclear Regulatory Commission to be our stewards, 15 because you are the people that enforce these rules 16 for us.
17 I understand there's other pollutants 18 coming into that Bay that aren't the responsibility 19 of FPL. But you know what? FPL runs a nuclear 20 plant. A nuclear plant that is in our neighborhood.
21 We are in the zone, South Dade is in the zone. Just 22 imagine if something happens to one of the pumps and 23 the water isn't going through the reactors. It takes 24 three days in a storm to shut down a reactor. Three 25
51 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 (202) 234-4433 full days.
1 So we have a lot to lose here. We could 2
lose our higher environment, our homes, the value of 3
our homes. We need to do something about this and 4
this is a reasonable request because we are citizens, 5
we are residents of Florida, and we are entitled to 6
be protected by our Governor and also by our 7
Legislature, and also by you as the Federal regulators 8
under the Nuclear Regulatory Commission.
9 And we ask you to keep that in mind and 10 to resist rushing along with this. I think on the 11 current permit there is 16 years left.
12 Am I right, 16 years? 16 years left on 13 the current permit. I think we're in the 4th year 14 of the 20 years to 2032.
15 So anyway -- but there's plenty of time 16 to take care of this. We need to step back and 17 require FP&L to comply with FDEP administrative code 18 rules, they need to comply with your rules, they need 19 to do what they're supposed to do by virtue of the 20 fact they've been granted this license.
21 And they're guaranteed profits. They're 22 not even paying for that water that they've taking 23 away from us. They get a guaranteed percentage every 24 year. It's almost like they're running it as a 25
52 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 (202) 234-4433 capitalist organization when really it's, you know, 1
a utility that is regulated by the state of Florida, 2
and serves us.
3 We are the community, and we are at risk 4
here. And, please help us. Thank you.
5 MR. MUSSATTI: All right. Thank you, 6
Bonnie. I would like to thank you for two things.
7 First of all an amazing metaphor; that 8
you're here for the fish frys, not the pickles. I 9
find that pretty cool.
10 The other thing is, as Bonnie was 11 talking, you have heard a great deal of acronyms and 12 shortened names and nicknames for organizations.
13 She's not the only culprit in the room. If you have 14 spoken and you were using acronyms or you were using 15 shortened names made out of acronyms to identify 16 technical aspects, organizations, these sorts of 17 things, I would invite you, before you leave, to take 18 a minute or two and go and visit our transcribers, 19 our court reporters here in front of the room and ask 20 them if there's anything that they did not get that 21 you could clarify for the acronyms that are in there; 22 NPDES.
23 Most of us that are working in the 24 business, we understand what that is. But to 25
53 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 (202) 234-4433 somebody that is outside of our science they may not 1
understand those or catch them as quickly as we do.
2 So, please, take a minute, introduce yourself to the 3
court reporters and ask them, did you get everything 4
I said or can I clarify a spot that would have said, 5
garbled, in the transcript. And we can do that, I 6
think we can close this meeting.
7 The first thing I'd like to do is remind 8
you that we're taking comments all the way up through 9
the 20th, written comments, and we've got the address 10 up here on the board.
11 The second thing is, is that we're always 12 trying to make these meetings better, and the only 13 way we can make them better is if we get critical 14 input from people. The critical input being here 15 that we need to know what we did right so we can do 16 more of it, and what we've done wrong so that we can 17 stop doing it, and what we need to do better so we 18 can figure out a way to get that done for you.
19 We're here to receive your comments and 20 to hear what you have to say, but that's kind of hard 21 to do and we only do it every six months, eight 22 months, and we don't have an opportunity to do it 23 very often. So your comments very definitely do 24 help.
25
54 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 (202) 234-4433 I don't have anything else to add to this 1
except for the fact that I think you've been a great 2
audience and you did fabulously at staying within the 3
time limits that I did not hold you to.
4 And I'm going to turn this over to Ray 5
and we'll close out the meeting.
6 MR. MCKINLEY: Thanks, Dan. Again, 7
thanks everybody for coming out. Some folks came out 8
for both meetings, so we definitely appreciate 9
receiving everybody's perspectives on this issue and 10 giving us the opportunity to present the results of 11 our environmental review.
12 So with that I would say have a good night 13 and have a safe trip home.
14 (At 7:08 p.m., the public meeting was 15 concluded.)
16 17 18 19 20