ML17095A443

Transcript of 811103 Commission Meeting in Bethesda,Md Re Diablo Canyon Seismic Review.Pp 125-269.Viewgraphs Encl

ML17095A443
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Site:	Diablo Canyon
Issue date:	11/03/1981
From:	NRC COMMISSION (OCM)
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125 UNITED STATES OF ANEHXCA NUCL:AH REGULATORY CON!fXSSXON DIABLO CANYON SE-S~ZC REVZEV Room P-116 Phillips Building 7950 Norfolk Avenue Bethesd>>,

Aa ryland 9 PRESENT:

10 12 13 15

Tuesday, Nov ember 3,

1981 JORDAN HE DENTON D>>

EISENHUT B-BUC(LEY R.

VCLL("iER E

YOUNG J-CRE'rJS R

FAULKENBERRY J-XNjGHT F.

lfXRA LEA On behal or the NHC 16 17 R;

HUBBARD H.

BROWN On behalf of l'ntervenors 18 19 20 21 G-NANEATiS B.

NORTON D

BRAND I

RAY"OND GANGLOFF R

CLOUD Y

GHIO H.

BETTlNGER THESL H

J BLU'i1E On behal.

of PGCE 24 25 ALDERSON REPORTING COMPANY, INC, 400 VIRGINIAAVES.'H'HASHINGTON.O.C. 20024 (202) 55< 2345

P

~ '

208

)) l 1 hoped. "hat the entire nuclear des'On process vi h its "I

O/~(2(

I 2 margins and, its requirements vou3.d.

oe enough tha" any o

the 3 errors th t one voul" expec to zind in a reviev o=

a lot of 4 calculations vou3.d not affec safety.

And I bel'eve that 5 th t is the situa,tion that

~e find ou selves in nov at the 6 moment

'~e do not find the basic safety of the pl nt has 7 be n compromised,,

but ve have zound instances of 8 misapplication oz seismic d.at.

Thank you-

!fR'eYOUHG:

Hay I ask a cues ion?

Vhy d,'d. you 10 hope you vouldn't find large errors that vould impose upon saf ety?

4hy did you hope that?

I could see vhy the util'y 12 vould hope that, but as an independent rev'ver,

".hy did you 5B.

CLOUD I'm speaking as

a. professional 15 engine r iH.

DeYOUNG:

Sometimes if you hooe or something, 17 you direct your ac ivities tovard that hope.

It's a strange 18 statemen" for an independent re rieve~.

19 ZB YOLLZrH-Bob, getting back to some of the 20 errors that you found, I'm curious, vere these found because you r -did. the calcul tions or because the des'gn-22 documen-ation vas so good you can go back a,nd.

ind very 23 specifically vhere the error occurred?

24 ZB.

CLOUD: 'ur vork up to nov has been based upon 25 the rev ev of the applicability of the data.

'le checked the ALOERSON REPORTINQ COMPANY. INC, 4CO VIRGINIAAVES.WWASHINGTON.O.C. 2C024 (202) S~ 2S~S

1 were not changed to indicate that this analysis

could, be 2 used

=or Ua' 1 if you so chose.

Ill3/II(

During the design process of the suppor s in Unit 4

2

t was decided to change 'the anchor design 'n Un' 2 from 6 what we hai 'n Unit 1, and th y changed the anchor to allow 6 rota ion but anchored it to prevent any translat'onal 7 movement.

<<hen that change was made it be" ne necessary to 8 rerun that Unit 2 thermal analys's which was used for Un't 2

9 and. Unit 1, to properly nodel the anchor.

The analysis was 10 rerun and issued, and the previous Un' 2 analysis was cancelled-Fortunacely, the pipe designers recognized that 13 since it was speci=ic to Unit 2 and that it modeled a

fe ent nchor configuration, they should cont'ue to use 16 the cancelled prev'ous Unit 2 analysis fo Unit 1

and they 16 di" So tne design was proper-17 5R.

DENTOH:

Do we have

a. report from you on 16 this?

All the things you just ment'ned?

19

~B -

CRE'AS Me Xo have an LER think "e have go the initial report-21 lfR. THESLER.

I have descr'ed s to 3eg on 5,

~ yes.

R-DEÃTON:

Let a.e move back to an issue that we Z4 s rted on and. that's the degree of independence o

Dr.

g5 Cloud.

Tell us who in the organization he repor-s to.

ALOERSON REPOA'nNG CCMPANY, INC.

CR VIRGINIAAVE. S.W.. WASHINGTON, O.C. 2G024 (202) SW~.2345

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XAltEATIS I 4as going to add that Dr. Cloud 2 doesn't repor" to anyone in our organization.

He has been 3 retained to do an independent and indeoth reverif'ca"'on-

'1B-DEBTOR:

Who gives him h's direc-ions as to 5 scopet I

4AN ATIS As I had ear'er indicated,

":ir-7 Brand, our Vice President of Eng'neering, is direct'ng this 8 vhole investigation and re-analysis program.

And he, vith 9 his subo'rdinates has retained him to,make this independent 1O investigation.

."H.. CLOUD: 'If I could add some hing o thati I 1Z would say the program that I presented 4as based cn a'1 my 13 ovn ideas and I formulated it mysel f vithou any help rom 1g the people at PGEE.

15 "H. itAHEATIS:

And I vould further comment that on 18 the basis of his

'ndings that he reported in his inter'm 1y r eoort, I think it is cle r tha.t his rev'v is objective 18 LR'E!lTO'.i:

Do Me get the same repor s

he gives 19 you.

20 KA!t=A7IS You just'ot it.

And I have to say 4r-Den on, tha.

some of these things have jus been 22 disclosed to me, so you got it almost the sa.me time I did.

KH-EISE!fHUT:

When vill '-e be expecting to see

24. that short-term "eport, Bob Cloud. said it's essent'ally 25 "ompTete-ALOERSCN REPORTING COMPANY. INC, 400 VIRGINIAAVE $ W WASHINGTON 0 C Z0024 tZOZI 54'234$

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NORTON:

Dr. Cloud, could you answer that?,

216 II/3/g('B.

CLOUD: I believe it's -- we will be turning 3 it in either this week or r.ext, so you should have '

4 sho'rtly ther eai ter

!fB. NORTON:

I might add we do not have it. It' 6 not a question of us.reviewing it.

Me don'ave it, 7 either It just hasn' been done yet.

Y. H.

D E NT C N-'ell, since his is a particularly 9 sensitive issue, I was wondering how you propose to handle 10 commences on th's draft, or are you going to send us the same report he sends you and.

add vou cover letter to it?

Or how 12 will you preserve inde pen" ence?

13

!fH NDHZOH:

Mell, like any othe mat" er, I'm a 14 little bit concerned about suddenly there be'ng questions 1G abou the independence of the review.

The NRC has.retained, 16 a consul ant and the same question mignt be asked -- well 1y gee how 9o we know that review is indepen"-ent?

mean, 16 there is no reason to believe this review isn 't independent 19 ZH-DENTON:

I'm just asking how ind pendent is it 20 NORTON -

Any sugges ions you have -- if you 21 want the report be=ore we see it, fine.

I "rankly-resent 22 the implication tha D=. Cloud. is not an indeoendent 23 reviewer because he is-As Nr. 8aneatis jus= repor ed to 24 you, we heard. this presenta tion to you yes erday -- in fact, 25 we heard it Sunday for therst time-I assu e you that 's ALOERSCN REPCRTINQ CCMPANY, INC.

CN VIRGINIAAVF-S W AIASHINGTON OC 2C024 (202) 55 23~

1 service contr c:s during th's period of Interes-,

four o=

3I 236 l( >gt 2 which you desc ibad.

~ he other eight would be 1ooked at

~ under the seismic "ever'='ca tion program And 'n addit>>on, 4 than you searing you QA ha vill look at a11 gel ve?

5R.

RAYMOND:

Yes DENTJN':

"-or evidence o-cont=ols?

ZR.

RAYHOND:

'Xes.

KR DENTON:

Dur'g that, period.

10 KR. RAY".OND:

Yes.

ZR.

DE YOUNG:

I gain o

C O

O 11 reviev, you have tvo major programs under> y:

one, the 12 ver'=icat on program vith Dr-C1oud, someone rom out 13 completely independen; the other hing is the QA check frorx i4 within the company.

D'd you consider going outside to get 16 an indepenient ch ck o+ that?

16 "R.

NORTON.

No iy program and audit is such The nature of quality'ssurance that ve believe very s rongly that 16 ICr". and, for that matter, NRR can easily veri:y ou audit-ig It is the vary n tu e oi the paper trail, the aud' is going 20 to be done and., of course create its own paper trail.

And 21 ve believe he NRC can e

22 or depth of the audit and sily sa y it'se1=

o= the extent the accuracy simply by

~ spotcheck'ng without a g-at deal o

input, on the HRC's 24 part e 25 HR DE. YQGNG:

Dr. Cloud. said he had spent about a

ALQERSQN REPCRTING COMPANY, INC.

400 YIRGINIAAYE S.H'HASHINGTQN, O.C. 20024 (202) 5W.2245

I

~

~

237 tlag 1 thousand

~an-hours to date.

Hov zany man-hours h

ve you 2 spen.

on your part o

it?

3AYYCND.

The quest'on vas hov ~any man-hours 4 have ve expended on the 'nforzation ve have iden i=ied to 5 da e. right'?

"R.

DE YOUNG:

VLOgo 5R RAY.".OND:

Let ze do sone zen al ari theet'c 8 real quick.

Approximately 250 to 300 nan-hours-10 13.

DENTOH:.

Do you report to any organ'za.tion'?

NR. 3AYiIOHD:

The vice pres'dent of nuclear pover 11 generation.

12 vR.

DEHTON:

is this independ nt then o= the 18 organizational units -hat you are auditing' 14 "R..

RAY".;OHD:

Yes.

15

.".R DEHTOH:

You say di=feren t pe rson than just 16 head o= the engineering staff?

17 5R.

RAYMOND:

Yes, he is.

Don Br nd is vice 18 president of the engineering departZIent..".-.

Schuyler is 19 the vice president of nuclea,r pover gener tion.

~ vo dif=eren t "'tinc+. people.

21

ÃR-DENTOH = I vould li'(e to -ouch on just a fev 22 other c'anup issues here.

i do not vant to pu Dr. Bloom 23 on the soot.

But I vill anyvay, since he is qu'e c pable 24 of ansvering a.ny questions in his 'ld.

25 i vonder, do you have any comI2en s.you vould, like ALOERSGN REPGRTING CQMPANY, INC.

e% VIRGINIAAVE S.WWASHINGTON, O.C. 2G024 (202) SW 23<5

1 like to reite-a e

Lat we feel the

!tHC is fully capable/

253

(((>(II(

2 it has, to con "inue to evaluate that.

t."istocically in the 3 indus "y, the

<<-C has cect inly <<ocn a black ha

'n the t 4 area.

33.

D"-.'(TON:

Thank you.

In the pec'o'd. s'nce "e met, Dick De Young and I 7 and our staffs have met to reFlec

~ on what we heard th's 8 morn'ng an" what

'<<e have gathered.

by direct d'scuss'on over 9 th last thre we ks, and we ha ve cone to some conclusions 10 about the scope and exten of your ac ivities that I think 11 in some respects

<<ould. substant'lly broaden the ex en of 12 design vecificat< on.

13 Let me talk about these areas.

One area our view 14 still h sn't changed on, and I think that is what you are 1S now emba.rked on -- you remember last time we indicated we 16 thought you should.

do an independent review and. verizicat'n 17 of all the seismic rela.ted act'ities prior to fuel load'ng, 18 and the results of this should be forwarded to us, and any 1g modif'cations that that program.m requires should e'her be 2p made or it should be justified to us bezore you be permitted to load fuel.

22 I think our views on that are the 'same and.I 23 think the Cloud approach substantively will be addressing 24 tha.t issue-So I think wi h cegac" to the ac iv'es 2g requiring =uel loading you are embacked on a prog am that ALOERSON REPORTING COMPANY. INC, 400 VIRGINIAAVE S.W WASHINGTON, Q.C. 20024 I202) 55< 2345

'r.

9~4>>:

1 satis ias vhat ve tnink should be done in tha,t area.

254 II/~(~(

And vhat T see you do'ng,

-ust o res ate, E see 3 an independent "es'gn reverificat'on being done in all 4 se'smic desi'gn related areas.

That includes the eight 5 service type contrac ors.

So T. think. in tha" area vhat ve 6 are stat

~ ng

~ s not d ~ ffarant than

<<hat ve said last tine.

A think vhere ve do differ is vhat e se needs to 8 be done beyond that-Tt seems to us that before ve can make 9

a, determin tion about going above 5 percent

pover, assuming 10 that the seismic design verifica.t'on progr m had been 11 complet d, that the scope oz Discovery vas not any larger, 12 and i s modifications required had been

made, ve think you 1a need

a. similar independen design ver'cation o

all the

14. saf ety relat d other service contracts.

15 The other our-that you mentioned, you had 16 proposed to do a

QA check on those vhich, in our vie'<<, vould 1T only go partvay tovard addressing the problem.

T. think 16 those other four service re'a.ed cont acts should have the 19 same sort of in-depth independent desi gn ver" icat'n-20 One meaning of the vord "independent" for me is 21 independent o.. the people vho did the original vork g and 22 vhe ther that vas done by your existing contrac or, Dr.

23 Cloud., or some other group, it seems to me in order to be

24. valuable it has got to be done more or less outside our 25 design organiza.tion.

ALQERSGN REPORTING COMPANY, INC, 400 VIRGINIAAVE 5 WHASHINGTON,0 C 20024 ( 02) 554 2345

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~

~ (

255

((/~(g(

HDRZOV:

Excuse me

".r ~

Den on.

I am not sure 2 you>> n ended o say vha" I though l heard you say, but I 3 have heard other people say it-Dr-Cloud has not vo ked 4

o PGc.i be ore on this project-Someone said he vas a

5 consultant before-That is not so.

ZB.

DE~TOV:

No, I vas trying not, to say that he 7 vouldn't be suitable-I vas say'ng tha.t it didn 't have to 8 be Dr-Cloud. but a similar e==ort l'ke that done by him or 9 someone vho is independen of the design ac ivities related 10 to those four other serv>> ce type contracts.

Secondly, and I think the bigger

e. or, vill be 12 to conduct a sim>>lar -- and

. or the area I just men ioned, tp-

~"

f 13 these four other service related contracts, I think it 14 should be to the same depth that is being Cone on he first 16 eight I think there has been sufficient doubt about the 16 formal>>

y of the informat'on vith regard to service 17 contracts ha.t you should do that not only zor the eight you 18 have started, but for the other zour-19

Ãov, I think on the sampl'ng basis you need to 6o I

20 an independent design veri 'cation of PGCi's ovn internal des'n act'ities vhich ve vere no t able to es abl'h "4 ~ s 22 morning that there vere internal organizational s'u "-'ns 23 ox procedures that somehov precluded some o=

ch>> s t

24 inzormality to get into your ovn internal process-2g vould think you need n

cog pa able o vha 48 have A "EAscH REpcRl hn c Mp~v,;hc,

~ VIAG{N{AAIR S.'t!C cVASl'lhQ7QN Q C. {.~$ {7~ 5~c

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"B. JOBDAit-I think you could cl

"..".at by 262 "l~(@

2 saying

.hose reports would not substitute or you" technical

-.'f3.

VORTOlt:

Ve iso have 5255(d) or Unit 2-5 These vouli ba in addi ion to that.

KB DEVTGV -

de tried to write this down in pla'n 7 language as opposed to regulatory language.

("eneral laugh er.)

HH.

DEVTONc And

'<<e <<ill pass these around for 10 people interested.

It might be well i you spend

'a momen to take a.

12 look. at it-5H.

HOBTO!(

Excuse me-Earlier I sa'd that Dr.

14 Cloud had not been a consultant before.

What I meant vas 16 not during any of the timeframe that all this vas going on.

16 He vas involved in a seismic system in"eraction prog"am that 17 vas done =or the

ACBS, and. since somebody pointed ou vhen I 18 said ha vas not a consultant be ora, vha" I "as think'ng of 1g vas during th' time rame ve. are talk'ng about,-

'76, '77, 2p '78, and. I believe late

'.79 when the seismic system 1

21 interaction program was going on.

"R-DEVTOV-I appreciate the clarificat'on.

23 I'uess just to reiterate, my v'av o= 'n"ependence 24 vould. mean as

a. minimum Zou are not revieving the vork with 25 vhich you vera associatad.

ALGERSON REPORTING COMPANY, INC, 400 VIRGINIAAVE S.W.. WASHINGTON, O.C. 20024 {202) SS< 22> power unless speicifc exemptions are approved by HRC.

V