ML13347B133
| ML13347B133 | |
| Person / Time | |
|---|---|
| Site: | FitzPatrick  |
| Issue date: | 12/12/2013 |
| From: | Banic M Division of Policy and Rulemaking |
| To: | Thadani M Division of Operating Reactor Licensing |
| References | |
| Download: ML13347B133 (29) | |
Text
1 NRR-PMDAPEm Resource From:
Banic, Merrilee Sent:
Thursday, December 12, 2013 1:47 PM To:
Nieh, Ho; Thadani, Mohan; Beall, Robert; Lupold, Timothy; Casto, Greg; Kavanagh, Kerri; McCarver, Sammy; Hamzehee, Hossein; Gilman, Joseph; Lockhart, Denise; Yoder, Matthew; Simmons, Anneliese; Sanders, Serita; Jones, Steve
Subject:
Attached pleas find the transcript for PRB telecon with petitioner Lochbaum Attachments:
PRB Meeting Transcript.doc I will be sending out a scheduler for a PRB meeting in January to discuss acceptance of the petition.
Hearing Identifier:
NRR_PMDA Email Number:
954 Mail Envelope Properties (87B1F1BDFE5A554CA9DC5EAA75EB6D0D013A9BC1B77D)
Subject:
Attached pleas find the transcript for PRB telecon with petitioner Lochbaum Sent Date:
12/12/2013 1:46:35 PM Received Date:
12/12/2013 1:46:52 PM From:
Banic, Merrilee Created By:
Merrilee.Banic@nrc.gov Recipients:
"Nieh, Ho" <Ho.Nieh@nrc.gov>
Tracking Status:: Response: None : 10/30/2013 12:23:00 PM "Thadani, Mohan" <Mohan.Thadani@nrc.gov>
Tracking Status:: Response: None : 10/31/2013 7:12:00 AM "Beall, Robert" <Robert.Beall@nrc.gov>
Tracking Status:: Response: None : 11/1/2013 7:13:00 AM "Lupold, Timothy" <Timothy.Lupold@nrc.gov>
Tracking Status: None "Casto, Greg" <Greg.Casto@nrc.gov>
Tracking Status: None "Kavanagh, Kerri" <Kerri.Kavanagh@nrc.gov>
Tracking Status:: Response: None : 10/30/2013 11:11:00 AM "McCarver, Sammy" <Sammy.McCarver@nrc.gov>
Tracking Status: None "Hamzehee, Hossein" <Hossein.Hamzehee@nrc.gov>
Tracking Status: None "Gilman, Joseph" <Joseph.Gilman@nrc.gov>
Tracking Status:: Response: None : 10/31/2013 4:21:00 PM "Lockhart, Denise" <Denise.Lockhart@nrc.gov>
Tracking Status: None "Yoder, Matthew" <Matthew.Yoder@nrc.gov>
Tracking Status:: Response: None : 10/30/2013 1:27:00 PM "Simmons, Anneliese" <Anneliese.Simmons@nrc.gov>
Tracking Status:: Response: None : 10/30/2013 11:07:00 AM "Sanders, Serita" <Serita.Sanders@nrc.gov>
Tracking Status:: Response: None : 11/1/2013 2:12:00 PM "Jones, Steve" <Steve.Jones@nrc.gov>
Tracking Status: None Post Office:
HQCLSTR01.nrc.gov Files Size Date & Time MESSAGE 113 12/12/2013 1:46:52 PM PRB Meeting Transcript.doc 86074 Options Priority:
Standard Return Notification:
No Reply Requested:
No Sensitivity:
Normal Expiration Date:
Recipients Received:
Official Transcript of Proceedings NUCLEAR REGULATORY COMMISSION
Title:
10 CFR 2.206 Petition Review Board RE Fitzpatrick Nuclear Power Plant Docket Number:
50-333 Location:
Teleconference Date:
Wednesday, November 13, 2013 Work Order No.:
NRC-396 Pages 1-24 NEAL R. GROSS AND CO., INC.
Court Reporters and Transcribers 1323 Rhode Island Avenue, N.W.
Washington, D.C. 20005 (202) 234-4433
NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 1
UNITED STATES OF AMERICA 1
NUCLEAR REGULATORY COMMISSION 2
+ + + + +
3 10 CFR 2.206 PETITION REVIEW BOARD (PRB) 4 CONFERENCE CALL 5
RE 6
FITZPATRICK NUCLEAR POWER PLANT 7
+ + + + +
8 WEDNESDAY 9
NOVEMBER 13, 2013 10
+ + + + +
11 The conference call was held, Ho K. Nieh, 12 Jr., Chairperson of the Petition Review Board, 13 presiding.
14 15 PETITIONER: DAVID LOCHBAUM 16 17 PETITION REVIEW BOARD MEMBERS 18 HO K. NIEH, JR., Director, Division of Regional 19 Support 20 MOHAN THADANI, Petition Manager for 2.206 petition 21 JOSEPH GILLMAN, Office of 22 General Counsel 23 24 25
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NRC HEADQUARTERS STAFF 1
ROBERT BEALL, Branch Chief, DORL, NRR 2
MERRILEE J. BANIC, Petition Coordinator, NRR 3
CARRIE KAVANAGH, NRO 4
MATTHEW YODER, Chemical Engineering Branch, Division 5
of Engineering, NRR 6
7 NRC REGION I OFFICE 8
10 ALSO PRESENT 11 CHRIS ADNER, Licensing Manager, FitzPatrick Nuclear 12 Power Plant 13 JESSICA AZULAY, Alliance for a Green Economy 14 TIM JUDSON, Citizens Awareness Network 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25
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P R O C E E D I N G S 1
1:32 p.m.
2 MR. THADANI: I would like to thank 3
everybody for attending this meeting. My name is 4
Mohan Thadani, and I'm the NRC's Senior Project 5
Manager assigned to FitzPatrick Plant. We are here 6
today to allow Petitioner, Mr. David Lochbaum, to 7
address the Petition Review Board regarding a 10 CFR 8
2.206 petition dated July 25, 2013, filed by him on 9
behalf of Alliance for a Green Economy, Beyond 10
- Nuclear, Citizens Awareness, and the Union of 11 Concerned Scientists. I'm the petition manager for 12 this petition; the Petition Review Board chairman is 13 Mr. Ho Nieh, Director, Division of Inspections and 14 Regional
- Support, Office of Nuclear Reactor 15 Regulation.
16 This teleconference is scheduled from 1:30 17 p.m. to 2:30 p.m. Eastern time; the meeting is being 18 recorded by the NRC Operations Center, and will be 19 transcribed by a court reporter. The transcript will 20 become a supplement to the petition; the transcript 21 will also be made publicly available and will be the 22 PRB's meeting summary. I'd like to open this meeting 23 with introductions. In our room here today, I will go 24 on my left.
25
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MR. BEALL: This is Robert Beall, Acting 1
2 MS. KAVANAGH: Kerri Kavanagh, I'm the 3
Chief of the Quality Assurance Vendor Inspection 4
Branch, Office of New Reactors.
5 MR. YODER: Matt Yoder, NRR Division of 6
Engineering, Chemical Engineering Branch.
7 CHAIRMAN NIEH:
Ho
- Nieh, Director, 8
Division of Inspection and Regional Support.
9 MS.
BANIC:
Lee
- Banic, Position 10 Coordinator, NRR.
11 MR. GILLMAN: Joe Gillman, Office of the 12 General Counsel.
13 MR.
THADANI:
We have completed 14 introductions at NRC Headquarters, and I would now 15 request those who are on the phones, please identify 16 yourself.
17 MR. LOCHBAUM: This is David Lochbaum, 18 Director of the Nuclear Safety Project for the Union 19 of Concerned Scientists.
20 MR. ADNER: This is also Chris Adner, the 21 Licensing Manager at the FitzPatrick Nuclear Power 22 Plant.
23 MR. KORS: This is Ken Kors, Licensing, 24 FitzPatrick Nuclear Power Plant.
25
NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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MS. AZULAY: This is Jessica Azulay, Staff 1
Organizer with Alliance for a Green Economy.
2 MR. THADANI: Is that everybody? I'd like 3
to emphasize that we each need to speak clearly and 4
loudly to make sure that the conversation is 5
accurately recorded and subsequently correctly 6
transcribed. If you do have something that you would 7
like to say, please first state your name for the 8
record. For those dialing in the meeting, please 9
remember to mute your phone to minimize the background 10 and distractions. If you do not have mute button, 11 this can be done by pressing star 6; to unmute, press 12 star 6 again. At this time, I'll turn the meeting 13 over PRB Chairman, Mr. Ho Nieh.
14 CHAIRMAN NIEH: Thank you, Mohan. This is 15 Ho Nieh, the Chair of the Petition Review Board.
16 Hello, Dave and Jessica; thank you for taking the time 17 today to discuss your petition with the PRB, and also 18 good afternoon to I think Chris and Ken from the 19 FitzPatrick Station. Today, we're going to discuss 20 the 2.206 petition that was submitted by Mr. Dave 21 Lochbaum on behalf of the Alliance for a Green 22 Economy, Beyond Nuclear, Citizens Awareness Network, 23 and the Union of Concerned Scientists. Before we get 24 into the details of the petition, I would like to 25
NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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provide a brief overview of, and some background on 1
the 2.206 petition process, which is in Title 10 of 2
the Code of Federal Regulations.
3 This process is a public process in which 4
any member of the public can petition the NRC to take 5
an enforcement type action related to an NRC licensee 6
or a licensed activities. Depending on the results of 7
the NRC's evaluation of these petitions, and 8
consistent with the NRC's safety mission, the NRC 9
could modify, suspend or revoke an NRC-issued license 10 or take any other appropriate enforcement action to 11 resolve a safety issue at an NRC-licensed facility.
12 The NRC conducts its review of 2.206 petitions in 13 accordance with the guidance in Management Directive 14 8.11, and that is a publicly available document if you 15 would like to take a look at that.
16 The purpose of today's teleconference is 17 to allow the petitioners an opportunity to provide any 18 additional explanation or support for the petition 19 that they have submitted so the PRB can consider that 20 in its evaluation. I do want to note that this 21 meeting, it's is not hearing nor is it an opportunity 22 for the petitioners to question or examine the PRB on 23 the merits of the issues in the request, and the 24 Petition Review Board, or PRB, will not be making a 25
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decision on the merits of the petition at this 1
meeting.
2 Following this
- meeting, the Petition 3
Review Board will conduct an internal deliberation on 4
whether the petition meets the criteria for review, 5
and again, those criteria are presented in Management 6
Directive 8.11. And once that decision is made, the 7
NRC will inform the petitioner of the decision. A 8
typical Petition Review Board at the NRC consists of a 9
chairman usually, and a senior executive service 10 manager. It also has a petition manager and a 11 Petition Review Board coordinator, and the NRC also 12 brings in other members of the NRC staff to support 13 the review, and that's based on the specific content 14 of the petition that was submitted.
15 As described in our process, the NRC staff 16 during this call may ask clarifying questions in order 17 to better understand the petition and the information 18 presented to the NRC staff today, and again, that's 19 done with the goal of reaching a decision on whether 20 to accept or reject the petitioner's request for 21 review under the 10 CFR 2.206 petition process. I'll 22 give you just a brief summary of the petition. In the 23 petition request dated July 23, 2013, Mr. Lochbaum 24 requested that the NRC take enforcement action by 25
NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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imposing an Order of regulatory requirement that the 1
condenser tubes at the FitzPatrick Plant be replaced 2
prior to the reactor restarting after the Fall 2014 3
refueling outage.
4 Before I turn the meeting over to Mr.
5 Lochbaum, I would like to remind those on the phone 6
again to please mute your phones to minimize any 7
background noise. In addition, since the call is 8
being recorded and transcribed, if you are speaking, 9
please identify yourself so the court reporter can 10 properly document your statement. So at this time, 11 I'd like to turn the meeting over to Dave Lochbaum.
12 Dave, you have the floor.
13 MR. LOCHBAUM: Thank you. This is Dave 14 Lochbaum. I appreciate this opportunity to appear 15 before the Petition Review Board, albeit remotely, at 16 my convenience. I think the petition is fairly clear, 17 and I really requested this opportunity to, as Ho 18 pointed out, answer any clarifying questions if there 19 are any about what we're seeking in the petition or 20 why we're seeking it. So it's really an opportunity 21 to provide any clarification if it's requested by the 22 NRC staff.
23 I did want to take a moment to highlight a 24 couple of portions in the petition; they both appear 25
NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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on page 5 of the petition. Towards the top of that 1
page, we extracted a quote from an NRC inspection 2
report dated April 23, 2013, where the NRC inspection 3
report mentions Entergy's plans to replace the 4
condenser tubes during the Fall 2014 refueling outage.
5 So we think--we cited that because that is the 6
company's plans; it seems to be reasonable, or the 7
request that we're asking is not unreasonable because 8
the company's already announced its plans to do that.
9 All we're trying to do is to kind of highlight it by 10 the next paragraph, where we talk about the NRC 11 issuing a confirmatory order on July 1, 2013 to the 12 Accone Occonee licensee, basically requiring some 13 previously committed to items be completed by a 14 certain date, a specified date, which basically turned 15 a commitment or a promise into a more enforceable 16 regulatory requirement.
17 That same kind of regulatory footprint or 18 regulatory leverage is what we're seeking with the 19 company's plans to replace the condenser tubes at 20 FitzPatrick; basically to have the NRC issue some kind 21 of regulatory requirement, order, amendment to the 22 license or whatever it takes to basically do the same 23 thing that was done at Accone Occonee--transform a 24 promise or a
commitment into a
more legally-25
NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 10 enforceable requirement that ensures that it happens.
1 That would not preclude the licensee from 2
changing that date and going past the Fall of 2014, 3
but it would entail prior NRC review and approval for 4
that to happen, whereas a commitment could be revised 5
and extended much more readily. So that's what we're 6
seeking in the petition is to basically make that 7
current plan more of a
legally-enforceable 8
requirement. With that, I'd be glad to entertain any 9
questions, clarifying questions about the petition or 10 anything in the petition, if there are any.
11 CHAIRMAN NIEH: Okay, thank you, Dave.
12 I'll--maybe I'll offer the opportunity for anybody 13 from the NRC staff here that has any questions? No 14 questions? Mohan, please.
15 MR. THADANI: Yes, we have--wWe don't have 16 anything specific to ask now, but we do reserve the 17 right to ask in the future, when we do some further 18 studies reviews.
19 MR. LOCHBAUM: Okay, fair enough, but I'd 20 be glad to provide any information at any time now or 21 down the road, so just let me know if I can help in 22 any way.
23 CHAIRMAIN NIEH: No I'm sorry, this is Ho.
24 I did have a question, but I believe Jessica, if you 25
NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 11 have something to add, please do.
1 MS. AZULAY: Yes, this is Jessica. I 2
believe my colleague, Tim Judson from CAN is on the 3
phone, and I wanted to give him an opportunity to 4
speak first.
5 CHAIRMAN NIEH: Okay. Tim, are you on the 6
line there?
7 MR. JUDSON: I am, I am. Sorry I called 8
in a few minutes late. And thanks to Jessica for 9
giving me the time and thanks to the Petition Review 10 Board for letting us comment today. So I just wanted 11 to be able to put the issue of the FitzPatrick 12 condenser into a larger context, which we're very 13 concerned about, you know, the trajectory that this 14 reactor is headed down. We are--a number of the 15 petitioners in this proceeding are also involved in a 16 separate 2.206 proceeding regarding the financial 17 qualifications of Entergy to continue operating 18 FitzPatrick, and this particular issue of the 19 unplanned power changes and the role of the condenser 20 in that has been a central issue of evidence in that 21 petition regarding Entergy's financial condition and 22 their desire--their cutting costs on safety-related 23 maintenance issues at the plant.
24 And we really think that this is an 25
NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 12 important issue for NRC to deal with as an individual 1
item as a way to mitigate the broader safety concerns 2
that may arise in the financial environment that 3
operators like Entergy, and particularly FitzPatrick, 4
are operating in. As an example of that, one of the 5
concerns that's come up most recently with respect to 6
these issues has been a concern about how NRC is 7
evaluating cost-benefit analyses regarding the sort 8
of--in relation to the financial condition that 9
operators are--that licensees find themselves in.
10 In particular, there was a report by UBS 11 Investment Research in February of this year, having 12 met with NRC regarding the concern of particularly 13 Entergy's reactors in the markets that they're 14 operating in. And they made a very concerning comment 15 about how NRC made the decision not to require filters 16 on hardened vents for Mark I BWRs, and in particular 17 they mentioned that there was a concern by NRC about 18 the impact of requiring safety upgrades in the 19 financial condition that they're operating their 20 reactors in. More particularly, I mean clearly that 21 the requiring--that issuing safety requirements may 22 cause certain reactors to go out of business, or at 23 least be an additional burden on their continued 24 operations.
25
NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 13 We would be very concerned about NRC 1
deferring action on an item like the condenser, both 2
because it clearly has resulted in a safety impact vis 3
a vis the white rating under the unplanned power 4
changes indicator, and this is precisely the sort of 5
thing that NRC needs to be able to take action on in 6
order to protect safety standards within the economic 7
context like those licensees like Entergy are finding 8
themselves in. One additional concern with respect to 9
how this is playing out at FitzPatrick, what is 10 Entergy's diffidencedefiance about its plans regarding 11 the continued operation of FitzPatrick.
12 You know, we know that the plan as Entergy 13 has suggested it has been to replace the condenser 14 tubes at FitzPatrick at an extra fueling outage, which 15 would occur next October, but it's also increasingly--
16 because Entergy has indicated increasing uncertainty 17 as to whether they will actually conduct that 18 refueling outage, or take FitzPatrick into a shut down 19 condition. And, in particular, at a state Senate 20 hearing in early October, an Entergy representative 21 said that the continued operation of FitzPatrick past 22 the Fall of 2014 refueling is an item that they "have 23 to review on a routine basis at this point."
24 And we realize that the issue of the 25
NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 14 condenser is very much hung up in this, because 1
Entergy is going to need to plan for the capital 2
investment and order the equipment necessary to 3
conduct such a replacement at that time, and the fact 4
that the reactor is continuing to have unplanned power 5
changes as a result of the condenser and presenting an 6
ongoing safety concern in the meantime very much 7
underlines the need for NRC to act on this issue. So 8
with that, I'll close my comments and cede the floor 9
to Jessica. Thanks.
10 MS. AZULAY: Thank you, Tim. So again, my 11 name is Jessica Azulay, I'm a staff organizer for 12 Alliance for a Green Economy; I'm calling in from 13 Syracuse, New York today. And I just wanted to let 14 you all know a little bit about Alliance for a Green 15 Economy. We're a coalition of environmental and 16 social justice organizations based in New York State, 17 and our member organizations are the Atlantic Chapter 18 of the Sierra Club, Peace Action New York State, 19 Center for Health, Environment and Justice, Citizens 20 Environmental Coalition, Central New York Citizens 21 Awareness Network, Peace Action of Central New York 22 and the Syracuse Peace Council. So as you can see, 23 together our member groups represent tens of thousands 24 of New Yorkers concerned about nuclear safety, and 25
NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 15 many live in the region surrounding the FitzPatrick 1
reactor.
2 For more than a year, we've been concerned 3
about the increasing number of unplanned power changes 4
at FitzPatrick. In the fourth quarter of last year, 5
the plant exceeded the green-white threshold for 6
unplanned power changes; but even before that, it was 7
already seeing an above-average number of these 8
destabilizing events.
And since crossing the 9
threshold, FitzPatrick has stayed in the white for 10 unplanned power changes for four quarters now. WE 11 know that not all of these unplanned power changes 12 stem from the condenser issues, but the majority of 13 them do. We know this from reading the quarterly 14 inspection reports and the licensee notes on the 15 Safety Performance Summary.
16 So we joined this petition in order to 17 insure that the NRC will address the underlying cause 18 of the ongoing unplanned power changes at FitzPatrick, 19 and will enforce its quality assurance regulation on 20 the plant by requiring Entergy to replace the tubes in 21 the condenser. These unplanned power changes are 22 destabilizing and they increase the safety risks of 23 running the reactor. Entergy's failure to replace the 24 condenser so far obviously at the end of its reliable 25
NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 16 life, and which has caused such an elevated number of 1
unplanned power changes for more than a year now is a 2
threat to our safety. So we're asking NRC to require 3
a true fix to these issues with a clear deadline.
4 For the financial reasons that Tim Judson 5
just laid out, we don't believe Entergy can be relied 6
upon to act decisively in the public interest in this 7
case, or to honor the time line it previously 8
discussed with the NRC. Even though that NRC 9
inspection report that Dave Lochbaum just pointed out, 10 where Entergy stated its plans to replace the tubes in 11 the condenser during next year's refueling outage, we 12 don't believe that Entergy considers this a solid 13 commitment. In an interview with the Syracuse Post 14 Standard about six weeks ago, Bill Mohl, President of 15 Entergy Wholesale Commodities, was reported as saying 16 that Entergy is considering replacing the condenser 17 tubes during the next refueling outage, but he said 18 that no final decision has been made.
19 So it's increasingly
- unclear, given 20 Entergy's financial situation at FitzPatrick, whether 21 the company will refuel the reactor in 2014 or will 22 close it, and even if Entergy does refuel the reactor 23 in 2014, the plant will still be under economic 24 pressure and at risk of imminent retirement, unless 25
NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 17 something dramatic shifts in the New York electricity 1
market. With the future of the plant in limbo, and 2
free cash flow in the negative, it is all the more 3
important that NRC hold Entergy accountable for 4
investing in this vital equipment we all rely on for 5
our protection from a nuclear accident. Without this 6
requirement that we're asking for, it would be all too 7
easy for Entergy to put financial interests above 8
safety, to absorb the hassle of unplanned power 9
changes and increased inspections, while putting off 10 this expensive investment as long as possible.
11 If Entergy does refuel the reactor next 12 year, they cannot be allowed to waffle on replacing 13 the condenser, no matter how expensive or hard it will 14 be for their bottom line. So we're asking that this 15 Petition Review Board consider this petition very 16 seriously and issue the requirement that we're asking 17 for. Thank you.
18 CHAIRMAN NIEH: Okay thank you, Jessica, 19 Tim and Dave. Well in my job as the Petition Review 20 Board Chair--this is Ho Nieh, NRR speaking--you know, 21 we'll insure that the NRC staff thoroughly considers 22 the information submitted in the petition, as well as 23 the information you all presented on the phone today.
24 I do want to point out that--Tim, you mentioned this 25
NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 18 as well, and Jessica, you touched on this also in your 1
remarks with respect to the financial issues raised in 2
a separate petition; that is also in the NRC's process 3
here, and there's been a separate board convened to 4
evaluate the information in that petition. So that 5
will be something that we'll remain aware of with 6
respect to what that petition review board is 7
evaluating, but it will likely not be something that 8
we'll consider as part of this petition. But unless 9
there's a reason to join those two together, you know, 10 we'll have to think about that at some point in time 11 in the future. But I do want to separate those two 12 issues, because there are two separate petitions.
13 I did have one question, and Tim and 14 Jessica, your remarks touched on this with respect to 15 the unplanned power changes and the risk to public 16 health and safety, but I would ask also Dave, I was 17 reading the petition before the meeting, and I 18 understand that you're seeking an enforcement action, 19 similar to what we did with OconeOconee and the 20 modifications they were making to that facility, which 21 basically puts in place a legally-binding requirement 22 to complete the modifications by a certain date in 23 time. And in the petition, it's quoted "While perhaps 24 not posing the same heightened risk to the public as 25
NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 19 the safety shortcomings at Occonee, the condenser tube 1
degradation at FitzPatrick poses risk to the public."
2 That was the part I was quoting from the petition.
3 So Dave, let me ask I guess, are there any 4
other issues that you'd like to make the Board aware 5
of with respect to safety risks to the public beyond 6
what was described by Tim and Jessica with the 7
unplanned power changes and the white performance 8
indicator?
9 MR. LOCHBAUM: This is Dave Lochbaum. No, 10 I think to elaborate what was in the petition, the 11 quote you just read from the petition, you know the 12 NRC's ROP used to have the unplanned scrams with 13 complications, where loss of the normal heat synch 14 sink or the condenser was an initiator, and that was 15 in recognition that while not technically safety grade 16 or relied upon in a safety analysis, if you lose the 17 condenser or the normal heat synchink, you're making 18 your life more difficult; you're increasing the risk.
19 And basically, that's what I was alluding 20 to in the
- petition, is that here there's an 21 identified, well-established problem with the 22 condenser which makes its reliability less than it was 23 if they replaced the steam generator codenser tubes.
24 It doesn't--it's not that you're one step away from 25
NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 20 meltdown, but you are reducing the reliability of the 1
plant the way it's operating. So that's the safety 2
implications to the public I was inferring from that 3
statement.
4 CHAIRMAN NIEH: Okay, thank you very much, 5
Dave, I appreciate that clarification, and you know 6
when you mentioned that--this is Ho again from NRR--I 7
kind of reflect to my days back as an inspector; in 8
fact, I was at a site not too far away from 9
FitzPatrick, at Genay Ginna, but I do remember that 10 performance indicator scram with lotss of normal heat 11 removal. And now finding myself back in this position 12 some 13 years later, things have changed in the 13 performance indicators, and yes you were correct that 14 that indicator is no longer part of the PIs that are 15 voluntarily reported by industry. But Dave, thanks 16 for that clarification and elaboration on that point 17 in your petition. Any other questions from the group 18 here? Okay I think Jessica, did you--were you going 19 to make another comment?
20 MS. AZULAY: Yes, this is Jessica Azulay.
21 I just wanted to respond to the question of the 22 financial qualifications petition and its relationship 23 to this petition. I wanted to clarify that we're not 24 suggesting that these petitions be joined. We do 25
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(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 21 realize that they are separate petitions, and that our 1
financial qualifications petition is in process, and I 2
think I just wanted to clarify that we are bringing 3
this issue to you today because we do think it has 4
bearing on how the company will--how we can predict 5
the company will act, and whether--and what they're 6
considering and what kind of constraints and pressures 7
they're under in deciding whether to conduct this tube 8
replacement that they've said they're planning to do.
9 And so that's why we wanted to bring 10 these issues to your attention and bring that 11 proceeding to your attention. We believe the company 12 is under a lot of financial pressure to put off this 13 tube replacement as long as possible, which is part of 14 why they've put this tube replacement off so long 15 while these unplanned power changes continue for such 16 a long period of time, and until the company makes a 17 decision about whether it's going to continue 18 operating for a long period of time, we predict they 19 won't want to invest in such an expensive repair and 20 replacement. So that's why we wanted to bring these 21 to your attention, not to suggest that these two 22 petitions should be joined.
23 MR. JUDSON: That's right, and this is 24 Tim, and just to add to that, I think the additional 25
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(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 22 context in which we wanted to raise those issues was 1
with respect to NRC might conduct a cost-benefit 2
analysis in deciding sort of how to provide regulatory 3
enforcement on this issue in particular, and we would 4
just like to sort of be out there up front, sort of 5
calling attention to our concerns about how NRC might 6
conduct that cost-benefit analysis and what factors it 7
may consider.
8 CHAIRMAN NIEH: Okay, thank you very much, 9
Tim and Jessica for that clarification. The NRC staff 10 here do not have any additional questions, I guess 11 Dave, any final comments for the Board?
12 MR. LOCHBAUM: This is Dave Lochbaum, I 13 just--I should have done it at the opening. I wanted 14 to thank Mohan Thadani for arranging this meeting. We 15 went through a couple of iterations because of the 16 Government shutdown, but he did a fantastic job of 17 setting us up and arranging this, and I appreciate 18 that effort and the extra effort he had to go through 19 because of the Government shutdown that was beyond his 20 control. So I appreciate that.
21 MR. THADANI: Thank you very much.
22 CHAIRMAN NIEH: Okay, thanks for the 23 acknowledgment, Dave. I guess before--so we'll get 24 ready to conclude the meeting. I did want to just 25
NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 23 clarify one thing I mentioned in my opening remarks.
1 I said the wrong date for the petition; I said July 2
23, but the date of the petition is actually July 25, 3
so I wanted to clarify that. So before I conclude the 4
meeting, I know we have some members of the public on 5
the phone, I'd like to perhaps take the opportunity 6
here to see if any members of the public have any 7
questions for the NRC on the process, not the merits 8
of the petition we just discussed, but are there any 9
questions from members of the public on the phone 10 about how the NRC dispositions 2.206 petitions?
11 MR. GUNTHER: This is Paul Gunter with 12 Beyond Nuclear; I don't have any questions at this 13 point.
14 CHAIRMAN NIEH: Okay, thank you, Paul.
15 All right, well Mr. Lochbaum--okay, does the licensee 16 have any questions about the NRC's 2.206 petition 17 process?
18 MR. KORS: No, we do not.
19 CHAIRMAN NIEH: Okay, thank you. Thank 20 you, Mohan. Okay, I'd like to--excuse me?
21 MR. KORS: Just giving you my name, Ken 22 Kors.
23 CHAIRMAN NIEH: Oh, okay. Thank you, Ken.
24 Okay, well Dave and Jessica and Tim, thank you for 25
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(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 24 taking the time to talk with the Board today, I found 1
your remarks helpful and we'll consider them in 2
addition to the petition that was submitted on July 3
25, 2013. And with that, the meeting is adjourned.
4 Thank you.
5 MR. LOCHBAUM: Thank you. Bye.
6 MS. AZULAY: Thank you.
7
[Whereupon, the meeting was concluded at 8
2:02 p.m.]
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