ML12181A368
| ML12181A368 | |
| Person / Time | |
|---|---|
| Site: | Indian Point  |
| Issue date: | 06/29/2012 |
| From: | Riverkeeper |
| To: | Atomic Safety and Licensing Board Panel |
| SECY RAS | |
| Shared Package | |
| ML12181A367 | List: |
| References | |
| RAS 22866, 50-247-LR, 50-286-LR, ASLBP 07-858-03-LR-BD01 | |
| Download: ML12181A368 (5) | |
Text
f2_AS H-f ~ 3 Official Trans;cript of Proceedings NUCLEAR REGULATORY COMMISSION
Title:
Docket Number:
Location:
Date:
Work Order No.:
Entergy f\\luclear Vermont Yankee 50-271-LR; ASLBP No. 06-849-03-LR Newfane, Vermont Thursday, July 24, 2008 NRC-2296 NEAL R. GROSS AND CO., INC.
Court Reporters and Transcribers 1323 Rhode Island Avenue, N.W.
Washington, D.C. 20005 (202) 234-4433 DOCKETED USNRC July 25, 2008 (1:50pm)
OFFICE OF SECRETARY RULEMAKINGS AND ADJUDICATIONS STAFF Pages 1451-1741 1?5-03 RIV000109 Submitted: June 29, 2012 EXCERPT
1475 1
portraying erosion corrosion to be a combined term 2
between the corrosion that we are now reserving to 3
mean flow-accelerated corrosion from that which is 4
caused mechanically as I interpolate him saying of an 5
erosion type of aspect.
So what's your definition of 6
erosion under those assumptions that we're going to 7
reserve the word corroslon to be a shortened version 8
of FAC, flow-accelerated corrosion.
9 MR. HOPENFELD:
Erosion, actually, Idon't 10 even know it's completely separate from erosion 11 corrosion.
I'll have to explain that.
But strictly 12 speaking of erosion, my understanding would be you 13 have particles in steam, droplets ln steam impinging 14 15 JUDGE W.li.RDWELL:
Is that steam droplet 16 impingement?
17 MR. HOPENFELD:
Yes, that would be.
18 JUDGE WARDWELL:
We separated that out.
19 MR. HOPENFELD:
It could be called 20 JUDGE WARDWELL:
That's droplet 21 impingement, so back to the corrosion.
If they 22 removed droplet impingement, do you agree with his 23 definition of erosion as a mechanical process 24 MR.
HOPENFELD:
Not necessarily in the 25 context of corrosion and erosion, I can't separate it.
(202) 234-4433 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 (202) 234-4433
1476 1
I can explain to you why.
You *can't separate the two.
2 There is no acceptable theory as exactly what happens 3
during the erosion corrosion process.
It lS 4
acceptable for the last 30 or 40 years, but you don't 5
have enough shear stress, calculated shear forces 6
during normal flow.
There is not. enough shear there 7
to abrade or wash off, as NRC defines it., to wash off 8
that. layer. There's been acceptance in the paper that.
9 was written in '76 on that subject..
10 JUDGE WARDWELL:
Let me stop you right.
11 there.
12 It's my impression that. flow-accelerated 13 corrosion isn't. a physical washing off of the oxide, 14 but. more of a chemical melting of it., my simplistic 15 mind, and I thought I heard Dr. Horowitz-- again, at 16 the next hearing I'm on, I'm going to limit how many 17 Hs are present for witnesses.
18 Dr. Horowitz seemed to agree to that.
19 MR. HOPENFELD:
I took the next step.
20 JUDGE WARDWELL:
There's no argument, no 21 one says there's enough shear forces to physically 22 remove it, but. there's enough chemical action to melt 23 it, isn't there?
24 25 MR. HOPENFELD:
No, no, no.
NRC says it's a washing away of the oxide.
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JUDGE WARDWELL:
I'll get to the NRC.
2 MR.
HOPENFELD:
But back to what I was 3
coming to, there's no acceptable theory.
Ther*e are 4
concepts.
One concept I'm familiar with that has to 5
do -- that you can have very, very --
some velocity.
6 You may have sufficient, sufficient shear force.
It 7
doesn't take much to affect the cohesion, to affect 8
the oxide *layer.
And I am not an expert on oxide 9
layer characteristics and all the details of that.
10 That's one theory.
There are other theories that Dr.
11 Hausler has proposed, the creation of local extremely 12 high pressure.
I'd rather he talk about that.
13 Their definition doesn't cover those acts, 14 those two acts as I just said.
15 JUDGE WARDWELL:
Dr. Hausler, would you 16 like to expound on that in regards to the definition?
17 DR.
HAUSLER:
- Yes, sir.
Your Honor, 18 actually, I would.
With your permission I would like 19 to cut through this fog of definition fairly quickly.
20 What this demonstrates that in fact over 21 the years the corrosion engineers have made confusion 22 in their semantics.
And the chronology has developed 23 over the years.
I mean perhaps to be more specific as 24 to what it is that I want to say.
25 (202) 234*4433 Originally, erosion has been used for NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 (202) 234*4433
1478 1
corrosion phenomena were the two extremes, were, in 2
fact, mixing with the salts, salts mixed into the 3
fluid streams.
We did, in fact, then have abrasion, 4
mechanical removal of the surface layers.
Now this is 5
not what we're looking at.
6 JUDGE WARDWELL :
So are you saying we 7
don't have to worry about the erosion part of erosion 8
corrosion?
9 DR. HAUSLER:
I think that the corrosion 10 engineers have, in fact, used erosion just like Dr.
11 Horowitz and as Mr. Fitzpatrick indicated in areas of 12 high turbulence where you have high turbulence and you 13 get somewhat localized corrosion, but without the 14 definition of what localized really means.
And that 15 the corrosion engineers have identified that as 16 erosion.
17 To approach the problem, I think we would 18 be a lot better off to look maybe at the mechanism of 19 that fundamental.
And here is what I would say lS 20 that both are corrupt as well as what we might call 21 erosion corrosion due to high turbulence in a specific 22 location are, in fact, due to a dissolution mechanism 23 of the oxide layer on the surface.
And the reason for 24 that is that very recently in Germany calculations 25 have been made with respect to the compressive (202) 234*4433 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
WASHINGTON. D.C. 20005*3701 (202) 234*4433 I