ML062540194
| ML062540194 | |
| Person / Time | |
|---|---|
| Site: | Salem, Hope Creek  |
| Issue date: | 03/27/2003 |
| From: | - No Known Affiliation |
| To: | Office of Nuclear Reactor Regulation |
| References | |
| FOIA/PA-2005-0194 | |
| Download: ML062540194 (11) | |
Text
Information in this record was deleted In accordance with the. Freedom Act, exemptions
)7feof Inforation Transcrt of Coin..-
&-Kymn Harvin, Manager-Culture Transformation, PSEG Nuclear Harvin: Do you have one minute?
Yeah.
(Door shuts).
Harvin: So I got a call fror*-,,
PSEG Nuclear] yesterday saying you want me out by riday.
Who does?
Harvin: He said you did.
Uhhhh.... I have made no decision on that.
has.
has
,said, told me, that the end of the week, that's it for you. Ar*id said, Okay, Harvin: Why?
I can't answer that. I don't know. I have no idea other than him
.saying you~re finished, and... uh.... I'm NOT in this decision-making at all; Harvin: Wel o
said you were. He sent me a voicemail yesterday saying he talked with you and my out-processing has gotten moved up from April 16 to tomorrow [March 28]. And I've got meetings scheduled up at.Corporate and...
STHEY called.me and said, uh, if we move you from your 45 days to
,,next week is there a problem with that from my perspective. ' said, well, I don't know what she's doing from anything else. They said well we've been told that shemay be doing some assessments for Other utilities.
Harvin: No, I told them....
I talked to her about that and I said we'll be having the line manageme~nt do that if we're going to do them. I don't know if we will or we won't. I don't know of anything that would constitute a change in that. So, uh, the motivation was then to, uh, move things up. That's what it is. But...
Harvin: Do you know why?
I believ
,ust wants it done.
0-0/nd Harvin Transcript of 3/27/03 Page I of I I
Harvin: So I have no opportunity now to muee-work with him and have him make a decisio told me on Thdrsday oe was-free to make.
O W
,1 am not...
Harvin: It's so inconsistent. Every day there's another....
am telling you.... I am nPt make (sic).... you are not working for me.
telling, and HR is asking on behalf, now whether they are taking it this Way or this way, I don't know. I've been consulted on if you were finished this week is there a problem from that from my perspective.
Harvin: We have...this week is the follow-up on all the 3C-.day assignments. We are having our big meeting on Wednesday. I've been integrally involved in that.
- -ymn, I'm not telling you anything other than they want it over. They want it over.
Harvin: But why?
.W ecause your position has been eliminated. It is position elimination and they Want it over with. Okay, I understand. And :hey want it done this week.
Okay, I understand.
Harvin: So this is.... so..... it hurts.
-wo,,,,,,
'our position has been eliminated. It is, ot about you. The position
'was eliminaied.
Harvin: Yeah, but, I was told I could work until April 6th You and will have to have that dis-,.ssion.
Harvin: He's not.here (voice raised)
Kymn, it is not me. I don't know how i y times I have to tell Harvin: (interrupting) Well.... the issue....
'(voice raising) You, you work for fuckinTI. (Yelling) Stop putting me in the middle of it. He said you're out an.
Is following it. How much simpler can I make it. I can't control it. I love yiu buttl can't do anything about itl I can't! I have been ordered, (yelling louder ordered, what do you want me to do? I have to salute and I am saluting., ) Kymn, that's the deal.
4~
and Harvin Transcript of 31,/27103 Page 2 of I I
(Kymn is audibly crying). It's over. Done. I know you're working on stuff. I know that. I know that. I don't have a say so.
Kymn, I don't know what to say. I am not in the position one way or another to control the outcome at all. I am sorry about that. And I'm sorry I'm the one that has to be the bad guy with you.... I really am, you know, because it irritates that shit out of me cause we've got heartless, fucking people that we work for. Well, you know what? This is the deal.
Harvin: (crying) So here's how it looks to me.... I go meet with I find out who made. the decision, he mpkes it~clea'r* iwahi o
Power]. It wasn't done TO rormance, it as i
crsion because we are going to attack the Union, r ' ght? I said, 'Could W**
hoose to retain me?' He says yes. I talk with him about what I am hearing over here about all the issues, how scared people are, they think we are making bad nuclear safety decisions, he says, 'That's a bunch of bullshit' and then he picks up the phone after I leave and cailld says I want her out of here.
What does that tell you?
NO
.I don't know.'
Harvin (yelling): You are an officer of this company!
Stop holding me accountable forsomething I am not accountable.
or, Kymn.
Harvin (crying): Where do I go? What do I do?
You say good bye, like you were told to do. This is not the place. I old you before. Didn't I tell you before? Kymn, this is the wrong place. I told you that. I said don't fool with this. This isn't the right time.
Harvin: Are they after me?
They are after you and they are after others. And it is only a matter otime an -I willbe in the same position. It's only a matter. of time.
Harvin: (inaudible)
Your position was eliminated period.,
as the authority to eliminate positions and he did. And he picked yours. Why he picked yours.... I can't answer that. He picked it and he's done it. He's done it. And there isn't anything I or you are going to be able to do to change it.
a~~nd Harvin"Y Transcript of 3/2"7103 Pai-e 3 of II
Harvin: This is so inconsistent with what we say we stand for. Not eliminating my job-that's not the point. But how it's done, how it's communicated, making you the bad guy, changing the timetable...
Welcome to the realities of this company. It's been this way all along,"or 20 years, all along. You think I'm in charge of the place? Uh-uh (shaking head no).
Harvin: I even said tugot the weight of the world on his shoulders.
It's not fair to put him in tht r'ositio*.'
~~Yep.
Harvin: And he shrugged his shoulders....... Why do, why do you let this happen to yourself?
hic
~Kymn, I am under contract. I have an obligation to fulfill the contract 7.which is to do the job I am paid to do and I am doing it to the best of my ability. If they tell me we don't want you anymore, that's fine. That's fine. I am not an employee of the utility company. I am an employee under contract.
Harvin: Hmmm......... Do you have a tissue?
down, please.
Harvin: I didn't want to cry.
I know you didn't.
(Door opens and shuts. Harvin is sobbing).
These aren't very soft but they're the best I have.
Kymn, yo6i and I are in a very interesting -situation and I don't have any idea what tomorrow will look like. My discussion with Was an interview-it wasn't a discussion abouttomorrow. It was an interview. I said to you three weeks ago...Kymn, I don't think you want to play in this. It is changing. It is not going to be what it was.
Uh....there's a complete distrust with Enterprise and Nuclear.
Complete. Let me tell you how it looks to me. I can't hire anyone. I can't go get anybody. I can't make any moves. I talk tound said I just had a fucking industry event, I'm disqualifying people, you can't disqualify people, I did disqualify people...
Harvin: She said you can't disqualify people? That's not her authority.
bland Harvin Transcript of 3!27/03 )
Page 4 of I I
When I'm dealing with Union people it is.
Harvin: Oh, I thought you meant the Hope Creek guys.
am talking about the Hope Creek guys, but it's Union and mrnanagement. Uh........ the....... uh........ uh.....
I'm doing the best stakeholder management I can at this point to avoid an AIT [Nuclear Regulatory Commission Augmented Inspection Team] and swooping in from the outside world. So I'm the......
M-"
-am.--
.* -=---
- _,and3 I think there's a few other jobs in there. And so I'm carrying it until such time that people say 'Here's what we want to do.'4
.made it very clear to me that he will think about things and he'll have his thoughts when he comes back. OK, I understand. Uh...... Am I in the game?
Harvin: Do you want to be, in the long run?
There's a power shift that is definitel occurring now that
, is
'out. Uh....l m not going to blame.
I think
.' as bee ldL Entrsem,,*p te some time. And no
!O coming in today. Do you know why he is coming in today? Because he doesn't think I am doing my job.,
c in on Tuesday and want to re-review all of hcanges to make because they don't think I am following the policy.
I'm going to tell you what's happening. The book is being written. The book is being written.
It is only a matter of time. It is only'a matter of time. So I tried to tell you as best I could. It's coming and you should not stay. You should not stay. You don't' want to find yourself caught up into it and being crucified. I would take it that it is purely position elimination and accept that. Write a book.
Somewhere in a week, a month, might be six months, I'll be calling you and I doubt it will be from PSEG. 30, 60, 90 days tops.
I think the outage will be very tough at Hope Creek. We'll spend more money than I have, and it won't come in exactly at 20 days as hard as everybody will work-it will be close. That will be viewed as a negative and the plants will act up a little bit in the summer and that will be probably the icing on the cake that says you will go. These are all the facts. I will get the (humping sound) letter from the CNO who will say, 'I told you you're shitty, you didn't make the right picture, so we're going to terminate your contract. That's what I think.
The other guys, I don't know how they'll do..... (inaudible) and Harvin Transcript of 3/27!'03 Page 5 of I I
I've done my communicating to where I think the plant is, and have documented where I believe the issues rest, and.....ummmm.... it is clear that I am being no more heard than you are. And the distrust must be huge that they believe they have to br'i all these people to cleck. So I've got the cops coming in here checkingi ill be here at 2:30.
- was here te thothery.. U h.... I feel the I I uy tha t w uld have me hang on t6 the job here i COM1 thinkNants me to stay, the guy that 7
wais arc h enemies wiih (laugh), would prefer me to stay.
Kymn (tone changes), I was awpre t.he date was being moved up. Why the date is being moved up I believe it i.
trying to finish everything before he leaves.
He made a commitment to Enterprise, it was positio ne* ination, and I don't think he's going to leave, you know, left over stuff fo to do.
Harvin:
theiriming is very suspect. I go meet with him, and right after that, he calls nd says escalate her, accelerate her.
make It's time. Whether it was one week or this week, it's not going to m'makean-y difference one way or the other.
Harvin: I see that now.
I1 mean, it is really not. I think you're getting a little worked up over,
ýeally, it'd b.no different a week from now. The issues that are around it, I think, youknow, have....are not going to change.
Harvin: I met wit' for about 10 minutes on Monday....at the end'of the day, cause I wanted to see for myself if this was a leader I wanted to work for and fight to work for..And it was very telling cause he said, 'What's the culture like around here?' And I said, How honest can I be? And he said, 'As honest or dish nest as you want to be.' Isaid, 'Can I shut the door?' And he said, 'No.'
And as sitting right outside. And I was unwilling to have the conversation. And...
N Why not?
Harvin: Because I didn't trust that she wouldn't immediately cal and say, "Kymn said...blah, blah, blah, blah, blah."
She probably would have anyway.
Harvin: Yeah, I'm'sure she probably told him I was there already since I wasn't on his schedule. And he said something to me like, "Well, I'm looking forward to working with you" or something and I said,,.I'm not on your team. In fact, I was due to leave April 16 and was told I have to leave on Friday. I won't be here and Harvin Transcript or 3'27,03' Page6ofII."
when you come back.' And his immediate reaction was, "Oh I can't do anything about that." And I said I'm not asking you to. I was just telling you the facts.
I said I would be willing to... I'd like to spend an hour with you and give you my insights because I have been here and I do know what the score is.
So whether or not he calls me will, in itself, be very telling.
SYou've gotten into timing and cleaning out..... before the turnover is comple'te..;That's all it is. That's all it is. If you think any more than that you're wasting emotion. Don't do that. Don't do that.
Harvin: I guess I'm naive because I was really hopeful that we could put the real issues on the table and really deal with them. And...
The real issues are with those in charge. The real issue is whose in
'charge. Is Enterprise in charge? Is the site in charge? Is the Union in charge?
It's clear both of those parties don't want Nuclear in charge. That much is clear.
And Harry has been in charge. We can debate whether he did.good or not. But the facts are I think he's kept non-Nuclear people from r'unning the place into the ground. And the cha*ige that's occurrin nws s
n e place.
Fossil what? Fossil,.
w You know, it's just the numbers? Fossil.like 'I don't understand Nuclear?' Fo-sil like we should do the same things like we do in other parts of the company?
Well, I'll say it. That's what it looks like. That's what's occurring at this point.
That's the direction"it looks like it is going to go. They want that.
Harvin: You know the Ops guys see that. That's what really scares them. That when.you have non-nuclear people putting pressure on nuclear people to make decisions and the non-nuclear people don't understand all the aspects involved and what they are asking for or pressuring for.
That was what the whole issue at Hope Creek was about.... do we go back up before we find.out about why that valve...you know all that.*.that's what they told me. It's like: 'Who is running the show?' And thank God you didn't succumb to the pressure. They Were afraid you would. If anybody weaker was in your job, what do you think would have happened?
U.... don't know. I do know is that I took a beating froriw) n or spending $25 million in lost revenue on the profit and loss statement for Hope Creek. (inaudible)
Ai*
land Harvin Transcript of 3/27/03 Pae 7 of I I
Like I said, I tryto take the information I get and I do like to evaluate it completely and there is some risk-taking I can take and am expected to do.
I hope that the outcome of Hope Creek is one where they can have some faith in the people that are here that they do understand what it takes to run the place.
-That doesn't mean that everything is as clean as one would like cause a lot of people have input bnd want to have input and by their position have input and, uh, sometimes it takes a little longer to get to. the decision. Hopefully it's the right decision. (inaudible) It takes a little more bantering back and forth.
Harvin: You kno
- SEG Nuclear] really thought you were going to go the other way-proauction over safety. I mean he's been very upset, very upset. Ane he's teen one of your biggest supporters.
(inaudible) Is there anything that would p.'ove it wasn't the right Harvin: No, you ultimately did the right thing, yes.
0 I don't know why there's skepticism in the leadership.
Why is that?
Harvin: They knew-the pressure you were under.
{.
Yeah,.it is only going to get harder. Why Because there's less money the company has these days. Gas prices are,ut the roof, there ain't no business coming from [PSEG Global] Global, and yo-, can run a highly expensive gas unit but all you do is break even. So who's makir -i your money? Well, this place.
Now, all of a sudden, you know, they are on the banr,agon lik is. They want 95% capacity factor. 95% capacity factor gi,,e ou no margin. Zero.
Absolutely none. That really is flawless execution w do you get flawless execution with the goddamn attitudes here? Fucki, (inaudible) place. It's not going to happen.
So you should not take any of this personally. You a:- simply a chess piece.
You're the move that was made. They've made it, I'.- made it, who gives a shit.
Somebody is saying I want it different.
You're right. I carry an officer title. It doesn't mean
'.t. It doesn't mean shit.
4and Harvin Transcript of 3/27103 Paue 8 of I I F
Harvin: Who has all the power?
)
.Absolutely. Absolutely. And as soon as the announcement was made 4t was leaving, the power changed. That day. That day. We are now under a completely different process.
Harvin: He doesn't have a nuclear background, right?
'101 Nope.
Harvin:.
(inaudible).
- ! I don't know. It may be these are the things one should expect, given the new environment we are in. A deregulated company that runs a nuclear plant.
Harvin: The Salem guys told me they thought this would be our demise.
- IWell, the NRC position from the word go, you know, Chairman Jackson [Shirley Jackson, former NRC Chair], said that a few yeairs agoabout deregulation. Deregulation was going to be the watedng down slowly and we'd see a safety culture change in nuclear power that would ultimately end nuclear power. The very thing it [deregulation] was intended to do to make it a viable entity ends up causing people to make poor decisions because of the economics.
And it ends up being economically not viable anymore.
(Silence)
Harvin: Well, I'm sorry we yelled'at each other.
Aw come on. That's all a part of 'straight talk' isn't it? Isn't that what you have said all along?
You've done a good job. I've told you that before. You've done a great job. You should not walk out with anything other than someone has said I want a different guard and I want a different line-up. They have that choice. They have that choice.t Maybe they will see the wisdom that was provided and, if nothing else, keep some of it and try to move it forward. If they choose not to, they choose not to.
As I said, here's no doubt in my mind, Kymn. You are just one of several others.
Trand Harvin Transcript of"3127/03.
Page9ofl I
Harvin: OK, thank you.......... But it wasn't just a job. And I don't think it is for you either. Look at us.
. Of course not, I poured my heart and soul in just like you did.
Because that's what it means to own, that's what it means to be accountable. So we demonsItrated to ourselves, if nothing else, right? You can always fuck anybody else. Can you walk out and say, "I was accountable?" Well, you wouldn't have the emotion you do if you didn't. So then that's the sign that says you did exactly what you should of and gave it 100%. You hold your head up high.
you~~wouldn't have the emotion you do if you didn't. You did exactly What you sh uld've. You gave it 100%.
So you hold your head high, say thanks a lot, it was a good ride, and I hope you don't fall off the cliff.
Harvin: OK, I'll go wash my face.
\\"Don't take it for any more than that...a chess move. Things -may
'.htange.
You know I could be way wrong. I could be way wrong but I don't really think so(laugh).
Harvin: OK, OK. Thank you.
iI Asl said before, you should do your job as well as you can up.until ihe end. And that's exactly what I'm going to do. And I am not going to let on one bit. I will do the job, I will work the hours I have to, I will give 100% and if someone'tells me 'Thanks a lot, it wasn't good enough, I'll accept that.'
Harvin: But it wasn't just a job (crying). And I don't think it is for you either.
Look at us.
Harvin: OK.
So look at it this way, alright? In a business orientated (sic) sense, Vyu had a ontract that had some expectations to go do and you did and the contract has been fulfilled and the time period is up. That's it. That's it.
You have a wealth of information this minute. I would write a book, you can at this point. Give something back. So, you know, use your creativity and do it, I 4
I and Harvin Transcript of 3/27/03 Page 10 of II
mean my God. Pass something on to somebody else who might actually use it.
And you might make some money at it!
Harvin: The Union guys, when they moved my office around the corner, saw my books, the picture of my books on the wall. They asked me could they have my autograph. It was so touching (crying).
(inaudible) tYou did The place is better. Did we cure world hunger? Not yet. You did good.
(inaudible)
Harvin: Thanks.
! ee you later.
(..
A and Harvin Transcript of 3/27/03 Pane I I of I I