ML061460295
| ML061460295 | |
| Person / Time | |
|---|---|
| Site: | Salem, Hope Creek  |
| Issue date: | 11/07/2003 |
| From: | NRC/OI |
| To: | |
| References | |
| 1-2003-045, FOIA/PA-2005-0194, NRC-1217 | |
| Download: ML061460295 (26) | |
Text
Official Transcript of Proceedings NUCLEAR REGULATORY COMMISSION
Title:
Interview (
(9 Docket Number: 1-2003-045 K.~) Location: Hancock's Bridge, New Jersey Date: Friday, November 7, 2003 Work Order No.: NRC-1217 Pages 1-25 NEAL R. GROSS AND CO., INC.
Court Reporters and Transcribers.?
1323 Rhode Island Avenue, N.W.
Washington, D.C. 20005 (202) 234-4433 A'
ct, exeptlons IC,,.
1 1 UNITED STATES OF AMERICA 2 NUCLEAR REGULATORY COMMISSION 3
4 OFFICE OF THE INVESTIGATIONS 5 INTERVIEW 6 ---------------------------x 7 IN THE MATTER OF:
8 INTERVIEW OF Docket No.
9 1-2003-045 10 (CLOSED) 11 ---------------------------x 12 Friday, November 7, 2003 13 14 PSEG 15 NRC Resident's Office 16 Hancock's Bridge, NJ 17 18 The above-entitled interview was conducted 19 at 5:30 a.m.
20 21 BEFORE:
22 SPECIAL AGENT EILEEN NEFF, OFFICE OF INVESTIGATIONS 23 ALSO PRESENT:
24 SENIOR RESIDENT INSPECTOR DAN ORR 25 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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2 1 P R O C E E D IN G S 2 5:30 A.M.
3 SPECIAL AGENT NEFF: Today's date is 4 November 7, 2003 and the time is approximately 5:30 5 a.m. Speaking is Special Agent Eileen Neff, U.S.
6 NRC, Region.l, Office of Investigations. Also present 7 is Senior Resident Inspector Dan Orr from the Salem 8 Hope Creek Facility.
9 The interview is taking place at the Salem 10 Hope Creek Facility and the interview is withi 11 13] It may have been called something different 14 way back but it's essentially the same 15 position,-t the Salem side.
16 What follows will be an interview 17 regarding allegations raised by Dr. Kim Harvin 18 (Phonetic) indicating that PSEG discriminated against 19 her in her termination as a result of having raised 20 concerns. The events primarily occurred that we'll be 21 talking about 2002-2003. The subject matter concerns 22 potential violations of 10 CFR 50.5 which is 23 deliberate misconduct and 50.7 which is employee 24 protection.
25 What I would like to do is place you under NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE.. N.W.
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3 1 oath before We continue the interview. Do you have -
2 any objection to swearing to the information?
3 Kim No.
4 'SPECIAL AGENT NEFF: If you would raise 5 your right hand. Do you swear that the information 6 that you're about to provide is the truth, the whole 7 truth and nothing but the truth so help you God?
8 So help me God, I do.
9 SPECIAL AGENT NEFF: Thank you. Now if 10 you would for the record just state your name, spell 11 -- identify your date of birth, your Social Security 12 Number. I need a home address and a home telephone.
13 Okay. My name is 14 fl L 15 SPECIAL AGENT NEFF: I said it wrong.
17 Ive heard 18 worse.
19 SPECIAL AGENT NEFF: Sorry about that.
20 1 That's okay. I 22 Myhome phone 23 number, due to events here I'm trying to keep that to 24 myself. My phone number and this will never be 25 revealed to the company? 7C NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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4 1 SPECIAL AGENT NEFF: It would only be for 2 my use.
3 4
5 SPECIAL AGENT NEFF: And I ask for it just 6 in the event that I have to contact you.
7 That's fine. I've had a 8 problem .~. m r i rr So I may 9
10 have to have a cell phone, but :for your purpose that 11 phone number would get through.
12 And what. was the other -- there was 13 something else?
14 SPECIAL AGENT NEFF: Social Security 15 Number.
16 17.
18 SPECIAL AGENT NEFF: And you are -- your 19 site telephone number?
20 rU I really don't have a desk 21 or anything. I have a back room, what they call it --
it's 22 23 SPECIAL AGENT NEFF: I see, okay.
24 -It's not a very good 25 number, but you got me there that one day, you got NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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1 lucky. I was actually there.
2 SPECIAL AGENT NEFF: It was timing I 3 think.
4 a' " " Yes.
5 SPECIAL AGENT NEFF: What I would like to 6 cover with you, we'll go back to a point in time in 7 September of 2002, but I think before we get there, 8 let me ask you how do you know o and how long 9 had you had work experience with Q 10 I believe was put in 11 place for safety. was going to talk to the 12 masses, find out for fwhat problems we were 13 having and it was job to take that back to -- I 14 don't know if it was at the time -- we change 15 managers often. But it was job to collect 16 information from the people in the field, find out 17 what our weaknesses were and then take them to 4 18 report, whoever that might have been at the time.
19 SPECIAL AGENT NEFF: At what point in time 20 is this? When did you first become associated?
21 There was that -- in 22 September 2002, we had a meeting, I guess in the 23 Training Center. I knew 0existed before then, and 24 I might have had some more informal maybe pass byA 25 conversations, but mostly at the Training Center, as NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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6 1 the entire shift of Bravo shift -- I've been on Bravo 2 shift for a while, we would have meetings. I know 3 that one day, but there might have been another 4 meeting somewhere along the line where was 5 involved.
6 SPECIAL AGENT NEFF: Was there something 7 that prompted & interest in you? You mentioned safety and some concerns that was going to take.
8 9 forward. If it wasn't could it have been 10 *at that time?
11
- Yes, it could have been 12 13 SPECIAL AGENT NEFF: In 2002?
14 Right. Actually, I think 15 it was was Working for. just 16 happened to be another manager on site at the time.
17 SPECIAL AGENT NEFF: Okay.
18 a They change so often, but 19 I believe* did work for-t the time 20 SPECIAL AGENT NEFF: Was there anything 21 that prompted this particular meeting or was this 22 routine? Did check in --
23 larThere was incidents. One 24 that comes to mind was there had been a steam leak on 25 Unit 2 that a lot of people, including myself thought NEAL R. GROSS 74 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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7 1 wasn't handled correctly and it was thought out to be 2 a typical action by PSEG, I guess you call it Mass.
3 (Phonetic), the people, the way they handle things.
4 And at the same time they're lecturing us on how safe
.....------we-- shou-i d-be-,- -that- that--ra-i sed--a--hig-s t-ir-, - -ever=ybody- -.. .
6 it got ugly as far as we were talking to management 7 and management was talking to us and there was a lot 8 of animosity. Do as we say and not as we do pretty 9 much is what it comes down to.
10 SPECIAL AGENT NEFF: This incident, is 11 this the one that involve l e hutting 12 off the valve to correct the steam leak?
13 That's correct.
14 SPECIAL AGENT NEFF: And you' re indicating 15 that's not the first time that something like that had 16 happened?
17 Unsafe actions, no.
18 There's lots of stuff to go along here, in my opinion, 19 isn't exactly the safe way to go, but again, you have 20 to think about we're working at a nuclear power plant 21 and half of it is a steam plant. If we want to be 100 22 percent safe, we'd all be lighting fires for light.
23 I mean there's a tradeoff. Sometimes I think we 24 exceed that.
25 SPECIAL AGENT NEFF: Exceed which way?
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8 1 . Meaning we go places we 2 shouldn't go. We're a little more unsafe than we 3 should be.
4 SPECIAL AGENT NEFF: We'll talk about 5 that.
6 j Not conservative enough.
7 That's the word for you.
8 SPECIAL AGENT NEFF: Okay, and I had 9 indicated I will be talking to you about the work 10 environment too, so I think we can talk about it at 11 that point and to stay with this, what was the purpose 12 of the meeting and fo- being there? The 13 concerns and the type of concerns that were raised.
14 How do you categorize them?
15 Everybody was concerned 16 that that particular incident which was really a big 17 event at that time and I feel it's really unsafe, was 18 unsafe and so we were accusing management of being, do 19 as I say not as I do. You're not doing anything.
20 Everything -- all these meetings we have are just for 21 show. It's just to show people out here we're being 22 safe. We turn right around, we close the door, go 23 back to what we do and we're doing it the same old way 24 we were. 25 SPECIAL AGENT NEFF: Okay.
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9 1 . I'm not a very quiet 2 person when it comes to a concern and I got -- me and 3 my OS, operations superintendent on 4 locked horns. We locked horns a couple of times.
5 Arguing back and forth and I'm not the only one.
6 There was a couple of others. And I believe that 7 happened on all the shifts to the point where the OSs 8 were upset about the whole thing and so they talked to 9 their chain of command and got t '.and what I 10 believe happened is F zsaid okay, I'm going to 11 appoint someone to try to find out what's going on and 12 it was 13 SPECIAL AGENT NEFF: Okay, so then this 14 meeting occurs with your 15 That's correct. "It wasn't 16 just I understood had the same meeting 17 with all five shifts. I can only attest as to what 18 happened in ours.
19 SPECIAL AGENT NEFF: At !
r 3 MM7ýj 20 direction?
21 I believe so.
22 SPECIAL AGENT NEFF: I want to refresh 23 your -- I don't even know if I need to. Do you recall 24 having e-mail back and forth with*-
~I do.
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lU 1 SPECIAL AGENT NEFF: I want to show you --
2 I don't remember the exact 3 e-mail, but yes, I remember there was e-mail.
4 SPECIAL AGENT NEFF: That's that I think 5 I might need.. And it's been a year. So I want to 6 show you -- it notes that there's a number of 7 concerns, so I'm trying to identify if that will help 8 you. What I'm going to show you is this e-mail and 9 it's dated September 24th, 2002.
10 Weill go off the record briefly, so you 11 can have a chance to look at this, so there's no dead 12 space.
13 (Off the record.)
14 SPECIAL AGENT NEFF: We're back on the 15 record after a brief break. It's about 6:42 a.m. and 16 you just said to me that we're looking at a September 17 24, 2002 e-mail from yourself to V And in 18 it it's documenting a meeting that had just occurred 19 and it had to do, I believe, with that incident at 20 least it focused on that incident involving*
21 Mnd the shutting off of the steam valve. Is 22 that accurate?
23 That's accurate.
24 SPECIAL AGENT NEFF: In it -- in that 25 first paragraph there you say "in the meeting a lot of NEAL R. GROSS z COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE.. N.W.
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11 1 concerns were aired. Some were focused on more than 2 others, but all were valid." Do you have any 3 recollection of any other concerns that were aired at 4 that time?
5 1lwould hate to guess at 6 it, to tell you the truth. I know it would be the 7 steam incident would be part of that. This is a long 8 time ago. I can't exactly say what the other concerns 9 were at that particular meeting.
10 SPECIAL AGENT NEFF: If I can't be 11 specific, I'll try and categorize. Do you recall that 12 they were concerns of a nuclear safety nature in terms 13 of either potential license requirement violations or 14 technical specification violations?
15 They probably were.
16 SPECIAL AGENT NEFF: Do you recall 17 specifically what those might have been?
18 M For the steam leak itself, 19 I figured it might have bordered on some of that.
20 Again, I can think of maybe five or six concerns now.
21 Whether or not those were the exact concerns I talked 22 to about that particular day, it's hard for me to 23 say.
24 SPECIAL AGENT NEFF: If not you, were they 25 raised by the others that were present?
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12 1 ý*Again, probably, but being 2 under oath, I cannot say definitely.
3 SPECIAL AGENT NEFF: Okay. Do you hAve 4 documentation of anything else? Would you have had 5 some sort of a record of what was discussed?
6 .,I'd have to look myself.
7 I'd have to look. And I plan on doing that for you.
8 I have some other e-mails around this time that I 9 might be able to bring up.
10 SPECIAL AGENT NEFF: Okay. So we just 11 can't be specific as to -- other than this, we know 12 was what prompted the meeting.
13 *..*.,._***Right.
14 SPECIAL AGENT NEFF: The'wfi*
15 incident.
16
- N W That's correct.
17 SPECIAL AGENT NEFF: You don't know 18 specifically what else might have been a part of a lot 19 of concerns-were aired, but they're valid.
20 I remember a lot of 21 concerns were aired. On record, I could say a lot of 22 that would probably have to do around tech specs and 23 stuff like that, but again I wouldn't swear to what 24 exactly was at that meeting. -(
25 MR. ORR: Do you know if any of it had to NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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I i 1 do with' equipment 4ssues, procedure issues --
2 *:JYes, 3 MR. ORR: Conduct of operations?
4 Ys 5 MR. ORR: Industrial safety?
6 Probably.
7 MR. ORR: Okay.
8 I have concerns there, but 9 I couldn't swear to it. The first few he mentioned, 10 I'm sure that those were brought up. Conduct of 11 operations, that goes back to -- ] procedure 12 issues. And being prompted, I can remember.
13 MR. ORR: I'm trying to help you.
14 And we have a procedure 15 problem at the island and that it takes I'd say 16 forever, but it iakes an extraordinary amount of time 17 to get our procedures through and a lot of times the 18 procedures come through without any field knowledge to 19 them. I mean they're all book knowledge, book 20 accurate, but when you. apply it to the plant and the 21 way we do things, we have problems with them and they 22 don't get resolved in any kind of a timing manner, no.
23 SPECIAL AGENT NEFF: Do you have evidence 24 of that?
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14 1 because they're actually getting better, as far as 2 that goes.
3 Back then -- no, I couldn't -- it's a year 4 ago and it's hard for me to say.
5 SPECIAL AGENT NEFF: Okay, but you might 6 have more documents and you can check?
7 I have to check into that 8 and I believe that the NCOs at the meeting had more of 9 a problem with that than we do, but yes.
10 SPECIAL AGENT.NEFF: The procedural?
11 The procedural issues, 12 yes.
13 SPECIAL AGENT NEFF: Okay. It would be --
14 in here what you're doing is sorting out what some of 15 the concerns that you were saying were valid concerns 16 and from what you sorted out as NEO whining. So 17 there's some distinction made there in terms of what 18 was covered at the meeting.
19 Right. It wasn't just 20 this meeting, but at this meeting also when -- I have 21 a strong feeling that when NEOs speak up, we're low 22 class people. I believe we're treated as low class 23 people. We're respected only as low class people, 24 that when we complain about stuff that it gets brushed 25 away. They're just whining. Yes, they have shitty NEAL R. GROSS -74 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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15 1 jobs or whatever you want to say, but we're licensed, 2 so we don't have to listen to them. We know what's 3 wrong.
4 SPECIAL AGENT NEFF: From what level are 5 you saying that you experience that?
6 *, Pretty much from the on 7 shift supervision right on up. That happened right on 8 shift, I believe, too.
9 SPECIAL AGENT NEFF: So CRS level and OS 10 level?
11 From that level up.
12 SPECIAL AGENT NEFF: Okay.
13 MR. ORR: Is that any better now, any 14 worse, same?
15 A little bit better, but 16 not much better.
17 Eventually --
18 SPECIAL AGENT NEFF: Compare the time 19 because we're talking so broadly here. You're 0 20 so in time frames where do you see -- where 21 are you in 2002, late 2002 as compared to now?
22 Better with the on shift 23 supervision, worse as far as the evel on up.
24 Actually, right now, there's no cooperation between I 25 guess they're called shift managers or department NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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16 1 managers,.
2 position.
3 Right now -- a lot of it has to do with 4 the union, but it seems like two eight year olds right 5 now are trying to run my life and I'm not happy with 6 either of them in the department. I think morale is 7 pretty much as low as it's been in a long time, but we 8 have a serious issue going on right now. It's just 9 nitpicking back and forth and the workers in the field 10 are suffering.
11 SPECIAL AGENT NEFF: There's another 12 comment in this September 24th e-mail. We're down in 13 the second paragraph and basically what you're 14 advising do is before aVo *moves forward 15 with addressing the concerns that heard at this 16 other meeting that % poll, at least poll the 17 remaining individuals in the department for their 18 concerns because you felt that others should be heard.
19 I don't like being a 20 focused individual. I have concerns that might not be 21 80 percent of people's concerns, just because I happen 22 to be at the wrong place at the wrong time. Maybe I 23 see this concern where it really isn't, but when 24 you're going to act on something you need to have a 25 lot of information and that's pretty much what I'm NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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17 1 telling And I might now have been here a day 2 when something really serious might have happened.
3 There's a real other serious concern. I 4 might not know it, so in order to get all your ducks 5 in a row, you need to talk to a lot of people.
6 SPECIAL AGENT NEFF: Okay, and then you go 7 on to say specifically, "the information asked for 8 should be of actions that we, the operations 9 department, have taken that in their opinion is 10 adverse to the safe operation of the nuclear 11 generating station. Actions that have not been taken, 12 not been in their opinion, taken with the needed level 13 of conservatism" -- it's too early for me --
14 "conservatism needed for this type of industry."
15 That focuses mostly on 16 that steam.leak with t indicate, that
- 17. statement right there.
18 SPECIAL AGENT NEFF: Okay, and then the 19 other one is the last statement. "Actions that anyone 20 feels might have a negative impact on the station 21 should any outside influence get word of it."
22 What do you mean by that last statement?
23 I believe things can get 24 glossed and filtered and cleaned up before they get 25 put into a final report. Maybe the NRC, I mean NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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18 1 anybody, NRC, EPA, anybody can get a hold of it and 2 look at it, but generically, unless you want to get 3 into a specific incident like the steam, the steam 4 leak, I believe that bleeds into a lot of other stuff, 5 like the BF19 issue that just happened a couple of 6 weeks ago.
7 Here at Salem, it goes all the way back to 8 the service water incident, the service water, they 9 shut us down almost. They'll do anything and 10 everything to keep the unit running. I mean that 11 steam leak existed for hours. I mean you weren't 12 here. That steam leak was bad. It was blown right 13 across the group buses.
14 SPECIAL AGENT NEFF: That's what we're 15 hearing.
16 al It was probably the worse 17 steam leak I've.ever seen in my life and they took 18 hours2.083333e-4 days <br />0.005 hours <br />2.97619e-5 weeks <br />6.849e-6 months <br /> and no action, just thinking about what are we 19 going to do? What are we going to do to get out of 20 this? We've got (Inaudible) coming in the morning, 21 that's hours away. They should have been shutting 22 that plant down. I mean they mainly should have said 23 that's a safety issue we need to shut down.
24 MR. ORR: Was it 4 feet, 6 feet, 8 feet, 25 20 feet?
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. °
19 1 ,,. " It was deafening. It was 2 a large steam leak.
3 SPECIAL AGENT NEFF: Where I'm seeing some 4 difficulty is trying to keep my -- and I understand 5 and I appreciate where you would say this is in 6 response to this question.
7 I'm going to try and go and save that for 8 the second part of our interview today and try and do 9 that.
10 That's what I ýthought you 11 did, but it's kind of hard for me to answer some of 12 the questions without getting into more specific.
13 SPECIAL AGENT NEFF: And I'm.asking so --
14 the difficulty I see here is keeping these two 15 distinct. And I don't want to make you go into detail 16 at this point in time that I can get from you -- I'll 17 get from you just a little bit later.
18 ]* Let me add one more thing.
19 SPECIAL AGENT NEFF: Go ahead.
20 Everything, the names you 21 mention, as far as hiring as much as 22 -Ji" ..... says, there's people that run him as much 23 as he runs me. I believe he did exactly what he was 24 expected to do and he's in a position where he needed 25 to do those things...
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zU 1 I think he works on a -- I'm trying to 2 find words -- a mentality that's trained into him and 3 that's what he needs to do. He needs to keep the 4 station running. So was acting on his -- what 5 his job is supposed to be, I believe.
6 SPECIAL AGENT NEFF: Okay. I guess 7 overall, I guess what I'll ask you for this is I want 8 to come back to this section under the next area.
9 Did%! go ahead and poll other people, to 10 your knowledge?
11 I do not know. I know 12 was talking to a lot of people, but maybe just the 13 people at this meeting. I don't know if 3 spread 14 out any further than --
15 SPECIAL AGENT NEFF: Beyond that meeting 16 or you don't know? But at least at that one 17 particular time?
18 I pretty much trust that 19 talked to at least some people, not just me. So 20 yes, l did attempt.
21 SPECIAL AGENT NEFF: What happened then?
22 Did it happen that took these issues forward? Do 23 you know what the end result was here?
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21 1 and I don't think anything came --
2 SPECIAL AGENT NEFF: How did you know you 3 were going to get something back and you --
4 We were told--
5 SPECIAL AGENT NEFF: You indicated he sent 6 ,to you, right? You got the indication that it was 7 Risending ,to get the concerns developed 8 on all the different shifts?
9 That's correct. And from 10 , I* said that there will be some kind of 11 synopsis, some kind of gathering of information and 12 their plans were going to be handed back out to the 13 people it involved.
14 SPECIAL AGENT NEFF: This is what 15 M .said?
16 That's correct. I never 17 actually talked to 1or anybody like 18 that. It was strictly my own communication was with 19 **
20 SPECIAL AGENT NEFF: Okay, so you got the 21 reasons why was there and what the information 22 would be used for from 23 That's correct.
24 SPECIAL AGENT NEFF: Did you get any 25 feedback from on what happened at all, after these NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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22 1 meetings?
2 Not that I --
3 SPECIAL AGENT NEFF: After you had this 4 e-mail with 5 Not that I remember, no.
6 SPECIAL AGENT NEFF: You don't recall any?
7.. I don't recall any --
8 SPECIAL AGENT NEFF: Fro or from any 9 other source?
10 Well, 4 said actions --
11 they're looking into it and we're going to develop a 12 plan and was involved as much as [wa'.0, 13 and we're going to work this out. As far as I could 14 tell it never really added up to or went anywhere.
15 SPECIAL AGENT NEFF: But in terms of 16 having conversations with didW tell you 17 specifically how anyone responded to these concerns?
18 No, I do not believe so, 19 no.
20 SPECIAL AGENT NEFF: Let me just go off 21 the record briefly. I want to review this and then 22 wrap it up. It's about 5:55 a.m.
23 (Off the record.)
24 SPECIAL AGENT NEFF: It's approximately 25 5:58 a.m. We're back on the record.
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1 In terms of the handling of the concerns 2 that were brought to Qattention and the 3 result of that having been brought to attention, 4 you had indicated you didn't have any conversation 5 with Mand you didn't really see any result. You 6 were supposed to get something, but you didn't see 7 anything. That would be documentary, verbal, meeting-8 wise, anything.
9 No, I did not. I don't 10 remember getting anything other than maybe a rumor 11 here and there, but nothing from4srsaying what they 12 were going to do, other than we were trying to do 13 something.
14 SPECIAL AGENT NEFF: What were the rumors 15 about?
16
]I guess they'd work up 17 some kind of memo saying that we won't do this any 18 more. We won't do that any more. Memos that you've 19 seen a hundred times.
20 SPECIAL AGENT NEFF: And this never 21 really, it didn't materialize?
22 No, it didn't materialize, 23 no. -7 24 SPECIAL AGENT NEFF; Okay. Did you want 25 to add anything to that situation?
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24 1 didn't really expect 2 anything to come out of it. I've seen efforts and 3 actions before. I believe them to be placating the 4 guys, guys being the workers in the field to make them 5 think that things are going to -- big actions are 6 going to happen to make the place safer, but I don't 7 really expect that anything was going to come out of 8 it.
9 It usually subsides for a while after 10 something like that, but I don't really expect it any 11 more. I've been there . I've seen flavors of 12 the month come and go and I'd see all of that mostly 13 as a waste of money. Unfortunately, I might have even 14 said that at that meeting that4* M job 15 was pretty much just placating them with a pacifier to 16 wait out the storm.
17 SPECIAL AGENT NEFF: Okay.
18 I called m fok 19 success stories 'had. been doing this with 20 maintenance and I said what have you done to improve 21 things here? What have your actions done to make 22 anything safer and 4 couldn't come up with one 23 example. trying. I honestly believe .was 24 trying, but couldn't at that time come up with any 25 example of any of V actions turning around with NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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25 1 specific result of making anything safer or better.
2 SPECIAL AGENT NEFF: Okay. We'll end this 3 one and we'll continue the discussion on the work 4 environment.
5 SOkay.
6 SPECIAL AGENT NEFF: The time is 7 approximately 6 a.m. We'll go off the record and 8 thank you for your time on this.
9 (Whereupon, at 6 a.m., the interview was 10 concluded.)
11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE.. N.W.
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