ML052570634
| ML052570634 | |
| Person / Time | |
|---|---|
| Site: | Palisades  |
| Issue date: | 09/12/2005 |
| From: | Atomic Safety and Licensing Board Panel |
| To: | |
| Byrdsong A T | |
| References | |
| 50-255-LR, ASLBP 05-842-03-LR, NRC-605, RAS 10448 | |
| Download: ML052570634 (20) | |
Text
YRTA 5 I o44F I Official Transcript of Proceedings 7- 1 NUCLEAR REGULATORY -COMMISSION
Title:
Nuclear Management Company :
Palisade Nuclear.Plant Docket Number: 50-255-LR; ASLBP.No.: 05-842-03-LR DOCKETED USNRC
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Location: (telephone conference) - September 14, 2005 (11:31am)
OFFICE OF SECRETARY RULEMAKINGS AND ADJUDICATIONS STAFF Date: Monday, September'12, 2005, Work Order No.: NRC-605 Pages' 1-18 NEAL R. GROSS AND CO., INC.
Court Reporters and Transcribers 1323 Rhode Island Avenue, N.W.
- Washington, D.C. 20005 (202) 234-4433
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1 1 UNITED STATES OF AMERICA 2 NUCLEAR REGULATORY COMMISSION 3 + . . . .
4 ATOMIC SAFETY AND LICENSING BOARD (ASLB) 5 CONFERENCE 6 _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ __ -x 7 IN THE MATTER OF:
8 NUCLEAR MANAGEMENT Docket No. 50-255-LR 9 COMPANY, LLC ASLBP No. 05-842-03-LR 10 (Palisades Nuclear Plant) 11 _______-_---x 12 Monday, September 12, 2005 13 The conference came to o:rder 14 telephonically, pursuant to notice, at 1:30 p.m.
15 BEFORE:
16 JUDGE ANN M. YOUNG 17 JUDGE ANTHONY J. BARATTA 18 JUDGE NICHOLAS G. TRIKOUROS 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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2 1 APPEARANCES:
2 On Behalf of the Applicant:
3 PAUL A. GAUKLER, ESQ.
4 DAVID R. LEWIS, ESQ.
5 of: Pillsbury Winthrop Shaw Pittman, LLP 6 2300 N Street, N.W.
7 Washington, D.C. 20037-1122 8 (202) 663-8304 (PG) 9 (202) 663-8474 (DK) 10 (202) 663-8007 fax 11 12 Also Present on Behalf of the Applicant:
13 BRITTA JOHNSON, Nuclear Management Company 14 DOUG JOHNSON, Nuclear Management Company 15 16 On Behalf of the Petitioners:
17 TERRY J. LODGE, ESQ.
18 316 North Michigan Street 19 Toledo, Ohio 43624 20 (419) 255-7552 21 22 23 24 25 Also Present on Behalf of the Petitioners:
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3 1 PAUL GUNTER, Nuclear Information and 2 Resource Service 3 ALICE HIRT, Western Michigan Environmental 4 Action Coalition 5 KEVIN KAMPS, Nuclear Information and 6 Resource Service 7 MICHAEL KEEGAN, Don't Waste Michigan 8
9 On Behalf of the Nuclear Regulatory Commission:
10 SUSAN L. UTTAL, ESQ.
11 of: Office of the General Counsel 12 Mail Stop 15 D21 13 U.S. Nuclear Regulatory Commission 14 Washington, DC 20555-0001 15 (301) 415-1582 16 (301) 415-3725 fax 17 18 Also present on Behalf of the Nuclear Regulatory 19 Commission:
20 SHERVERNE CLOYD 21 MICHAEL MORGAN 22 JONATHAN RUND 23 24 25 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE.. N.W.
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4 1 P R O C E E D I N G S 2 (1:38 p.m.)
3 JUDGE YOUNG: Thanks everyone for calling 4 in. I don't think we have a whole lot that we need to 5 talk about today. But I do have a list that I wanted 6 to go through. And then the last thing on the list is 7 to ask if any of you have any questions that you would 8 like to have addressed today.
9 First off, just sort of a housekeeping 10 issue, we did see a reference to I believe under 11 Contention One to the opinion of petitioner's experts.
12 We wondered whether there was a written opinion 13 somewhere that we don't have. And if so, we'd like to 14 get a copy of that. Is there? Or is that a more 15 generalized reference?
16 MR. LODGE: This is Terry Lodge. There is 17 -- other than e-mail correspondence, there is not a 18 written opinion. And the e-mail correspondence
.19 essentially is almost verbatim the wording that we 20 used in that contention.
21 JUDGE YOUNG: Okay. The next thing is 22 sort of a related thing. It would be helpful to us if 23 we could get copies of the application. And I guess 24 that would be one copy for each of the judges and one 25 copy for our law clerk. Would that be possible Mr.
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5 1 Lew is?
2 MR. LEWIS: Yes, Judge Young. Would you 3 like the CD version?
4 JUDGE YOUNG: Well, I actually find paper 5 copy -- would find a paper copy and a CD useful.
6 MR. LEWIS: I'll be glad to provide, you 7 know, whatever is requested and would expend the same 8 courtesy to the petitioners.
9 JUDGE YOUNG: Okay. Thank you.
10 MR. LODGE: Thank you.
11 JUDGE YOUNG: Let's see. Oh, one of 12 thing. It's sort of related. It would be helpful to 13 us also if we could get electronic, copy-able versions 14 of all the pleadings. I think we have that already
-is with the possible exception of Nuclear Management. It 16 seems like that was PDF that I didn't know how to 17 copy. Am I remembering that wrong, Mr. Lewis?
18 MR. LEWIS: We did file it as a PDF. I 19 can't remember whether we -- did we file the forms?
20 No, that was -- yes, we filed it as a PDF with the 21 Licensing Board.
22 JUDGE YOUNG: Would it be possible to get 23 a text version?
24 MR. LEWIS: Yes, we can do that.
25 JUDGE YOUNG: It's just -- I mean without NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE.. N.W.
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6 1 indicating how we're going to decide on anything, it 2 is helpful for us to have from all parties electronic 3 versions so that when we are writing up a decision, if 4 we should decide to use any portions or any cites or 5 anything like that from any of your pleadings, that 6 will save us time.
7 MR. LODGE: Your Honor, this is Terry 8 Lodge. I have a question. Prospectively, would it be 9 a good idea if we dual submitted electronically in say 10 Word Perfect and PDF?
11 JUDGE YOUNG: That's fine. I don't know 12 that we particularly need the PDF.
13 MR. LODGE: Oh, okay. All right.
14 JUDGE BARATTA: Well, the PDF are helpful 15 because it preserves the pages.
16 MR. LODGE: Right.
17 JUDGE YOUNG: Okay, okay.
18 JUDGE BARATTA: And Word doesn't.
19 JUDGE YOUNG: Yes, that would be --
20 JUDGE BARATTA: I'm sorry. That was Judge 21 Baratta.
22 JUDGE YOUNG: But yes, thank you. That 23 would be helpful.
24 MR. LODGE: Okay.
25 MS. UTTAL: Judge, this is Susan Uttal.
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7 1 I think for ADAMS purposes, the PDF may be required.
2 I'm not sure on that though.
3 JUDGE BARATTA: I think you're right. As 4 a result, it would be helpful for us to get both.
5 JUDGE YOUNG: Okay. Anything else on just 6 sort of housekeeping paperwork kind of things?
7 (No response.)
8 JUDGE YOUNG: Okay. A question that I 9 have in getting now to the oral argument that we have 10 scheduled for November 3rd and 4th. First of all, I 11 guess just a couple of ground rules.
12 We would encourage all of you to pay close 13 attention to the contention rule and to the decisions 14 that are cited in the original scheduling order in 15 this proceeding so that you will be fully familiarized 16 with the existing law and rules relating to license 17 renewal proceedings.
18 Related to that, when we're in oral 19 argument, I don't think that we're going to 20 necessarily set rigid timelines. We will be issuing 21 an order setting the beginning times and the location 22 and so forth.
23 But we would strongly encourage you not to 24 merely repeat what you've said in your pleadings but 25 address issues that you feel have not been adequately NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE.. N.W.
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8 1 argued to us. And we will definitely probably have 2 questions for you.
3 One thing I noticed in the answers, it 4 does not appear that standing is going to be a 5 significant -- or an issue at all. Mr. Lodge, do you 6 -- I think the staff had distinguished between the 7 representational standing and the organizational 8 standing. Do you have any -- I guess you can indicate 9 that in your reply but we, I think, are expecting the 10 argument to be primarily on the contentions.
11 MR. LODGE: And so are we, Your Honor.
12 And I appreciate, frankly, the staff and the utility 13 responses kind of laying that issue largely to rest.
14 JUDGE YOUNG: Okay. All right. Let's 15 see. One of the things that we have been discussing 16 and we think we'll go ahead and do probably in the 17 early evening of the 3rd is hold limited appearance 18 statements, a time for that. And we're thinking about 19 doing that between five-thirty and seven-thirty in the 20 evening.
21 I don't know, Mr. Lodge, if you are 22 familiar -- I'm sure Mr. Gunter and the NIRS people 23 are familiar with those from past participation in NRC 24 proceedings. That is an opportunity for members of 25 the public -- any member of the public to come in and NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE.. N.W.
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9 1 make a short statement that will be included in the 2 record. It's not evidence for us to consider. But it 3 is an opportunity for the public to contribute.
4 What we would do is adjourn the oral 5 argument at around five and then come back at five-6 thirty so that people who have been working during the 7 day can come if they wish and make statements.
8 We'll probably limit those statements to 9 five minutes for each person depending upon the number 10 of people. If there are a much larger number of 11 people then would allow for that, we might reduce that 12 a bit.
13 But we wanted to notify you of that at 14 this point. We will confirm that in a written order.
15 With regard to that and with regard to the 16 oral argument, we will have security in some form 17 there. And there are some sort of basic ground rules 18 for adjudication proceedings. And that is we know 19 people feel strongly about these issues but we won't 20 allow signs, posters, or anything like that.
21 We're going to try to get a room large 22 enough for anyone who wants to come to fit into and we 23 will probably do that in a conference room in a hotel 24 in South Haven. We'll notify you of that when we know 25 the exact location.
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10 1 It would be helpful for us to know from 2 all parties how many you expect to attend. Or if you 3 have any idea also how many other members of the 4 community may wish to attend. Any of you can start.
5 MR. KEEGAN: Michael Keegan. I don't have 6 a notion at this point. I know there is quite a great 7 deal of interest of the members over there. Could I 8 get back to you closer to the date?
9 JUDGE YOUNG: Well, we're going to need to 10 reserve a room. I think we may have access to a room 11 that would hold 100 people. Does anyone think that 12 that might not be sufficient?
13 MR. LEWIS: Judge Young, I hope that would 14 be sufficient. This is David Lewis. I haven't got 15 the number of people who will attend for NMC but I 16 would guess that in addition to Mr. Gaulker and 17 myself, it might be a half dozen.
18 JUDGE YOUNG: All right.
19 MR. GUNTER: Judge Young, this is Paul 20 Gunter with Nuclear Information Resource Service. I 21 noticed that with regard to the signs, it is my 22 understanding that the Commission does allow signs 23 that are 18 by 18. And that it does not allow any 24 signs over that.
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11 1 is this blanket statement on signs?
2 JUDGE YOUNG: Yes, I think that there --
3 I have two answers to that which I don't know how 4 satisfactory they are. But one is that in 5 adjudication proceedings, it's a little bit different 6 than other types of public meetings. And two, 7 security. We've been more, obviously, security 8 conscious since 9/11. And security figures that that 9 is an issue that we want to -- I don't know whether it 10 is a view line. I know that they have asked us to 11 follow that rule.
12 And when I say rule, I don't think there 13 is a written rule but -- or do you think there is a 14 written rule?
15 JUDGE BARATTA: Yes, I think that -- this 16 is Judge Baratta, I think the maintenance of a decorum 17 of an adjudicatory proceeding is such that signage is 18 just not appropriate. That's been a longstanding 19 tradition. It's nothing new if that's what you are 20 getting at.
21 It is true that for staff hearings that 22 may be conducted such signage of that nature is 23 allowed. However, signage at these adjudicatory 24 proceedings is not allowed.
25 MR. GUNTER: This is Paul Gunter again.
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12 1 I would respectfully request that we could see in 2 writing because I know that the current Code of 3 Federal Regulation applies to not only staff but also 4 Commission meetings. So I'm just -- I'm inquiring 5 because this is news to me.
6 JUDGE YOUNG: And could you give us either 7 now or subsequently through Mr. Lodge the cite to the 8 provision that you are talking about?
9 MR. GUNTER: Yes, ma'am.
10 MR. LODGE: We'll definitely forward it.
11 JUDGE YOUNG: Okay. And once we get that, 12 we'll consider your argument and your request.
13 MR. LODGE: Yes, for the record, this is 14 Terry Lodge. I would just like to embody what Mr.
15 Gunter was saying into an oral motion that the Panel 16 please reconsider the prohibition against signs 17 subject to our providing the regulation.
18 JUDGE YOUNG: Okay. When you provide the 19 regulation, why don't you just provide a short motion 20 as well.
21 MR. LODGE: Very good.
22 JUDGE YOUNG: Okay? And I don't want you 23 to wait until the last minute. So could you do that 24 within a week or so?
25 MR. LODGE: Yes.
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13 1 JUDGE YOUNG: Okay. So let's see that 2 would be September 19th. Is that a -- okay, that's 3 next Monday, September 19th?
4 MR. LODGE: Fine.
5 JUDGE YOUNG: Okay. Let's see. I think 6 that is all from my list. Do either of you have 7 anything else before we ask the parties if they have 8 any questions?
9 (No response.)
10 JUDGE YOUNG: Do any of the parties have 11 any issues that we may have overlooked or that you 12 would like to raise at this point?
13 MS. UTTAL: Judge, this is Susan Uttal.
14 I have a couple of issues.
15 First of all, I didn't get -- I don't have 16 in my file a notice of appearance from counsel. And 17 I was wondering whether a notice of appearance was 18 filed for both counsels.
19 MR. LODGE: Are you talking -- is that 20 required of the petitioners?
21 MS. UTTAL: The petitioner's counsel.
22 MR. LODGE: I will file one to perfect the 23 record. My apology. I assumed that submission of a 24 petition constituted that. But I'll certainly file 25 something separate.
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14 1 MS. UTTAL: And my second issue also 2 relates to notices of appearance. I see that 3 representatives from each organization have filed 4 notices of appearances. And they are also represented 5 by counsel.
6 And I think that the Board should lay down 7 some ground rules for who will speak during oral 8 argument because usually the retained counsel or the 9 counsel representing the parties that does the oral 10 argument, not representatives of the various 11 organizations. So I'd like to make that clear.
12 JUDGE YOUNG: I think my expectation would 13 be that argument would be made by counsel. Mr. Lodge 14 -- now I know we've let Mr. Gunter speak before. He's 15 participated in NRC proceedings before. So in this 16 somewhat informal context, I have no problem with 17 that.
18 But I think that argument should be 19 through counsel unless a specific request is made that 20 someone else do some portion of an argument.
21 Mr. Lodge, do you have any problem with 22 that?
23 MR. LODGE: As a sort of general rule, no, 24 except for the fact that as you have correctly noted, 25 my friends from NIRS do have uncommon expertise in NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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15 1 some technical areas in particular. And it may be 2 more efficient for the purpose of the proceedings from 3 time to time to have Mr. Gunter or even Mr. Kamps 4 participate as our designated speakers.
5 We haven't worked that out, of course, 6 yet. But I would ask that the Board keep an open mind 7 on that possibility.
8 JUDGE YOUNG: Could you perhaps when you 9 file your reply indicate whether you wish to have any 10 of the oral argument made by anyone other than 11 yourself? And I guess in that context, we expect the 12 oral argument to be, as in any proceeding, to be 13 primarily legal argument. So that would address the 14 requirements in the contention rule and in the 15 relevant case law.
16 So if you do make a request that someone 17 else make an argument -- and I guess let me just give 18 you my reasoning for this, lawyers are trained and 19 know what types of argument they are expected to make 20 in an oral argument. And sometimes non-lawyers may 21 not make the distinction between the type of argument 22 that -- legal argument on legal issues and factual 23 argument which would not necessarily be very relevant 24 at this point.
25 MR. LODGE: I understand. And I will NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE.. N.W.
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16 1 certainly make that type of request when we reply.
2 JUDGE YOUNG: Okay. Great. Anything 3 else? And, Ms. Uttal, does that address your 4 concerns?
5 MS. UTTAL: Yes, it does. I have one 6 final point. And i'm not too clear on it regarding 7 the limited appearances. I was looking for the 8 regulation that governs that to see whether parties 9 are permitted to make limited appearances when they 10 are also appearing as parties.
11 JUDGE YOUNG: I know we've had proceedings 12 where say employees of parties have made limited 13 appearance statements. So I mean I don't think there 14 is any limitation on that. But --
15 MS. UTTAL: Well, Judge, how about this, 16 if I find something, I'll let the Board and the 17 parties know.
18 JUDGE YOUNG: Okay.
19 MS. UTTAL: That's all I have.
20 JUDGE YOUNG: Anybody else?
21 MR. LEWIS: Yes, Judge, just on your 22 request for copies of the application, I was going to 23 provide you a paper copy as well as a CD. In the 24 interest of saving trees, is it okay for me to provide 25 the other judges and the petitioners CD copies? Or NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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17 1 does anybody else need a paper copy?
2 MR. LODGE: The petitioners will certainly 3 accept it on CD.
4 MR. LEWIS: Thank you. That will save me 5 some postage.
6 MR. LODGE: Thank you.
7 JUDGE YOUNG: Okay. Thank you. We'll 8 share the one paper copy. I guess I'm still living in 9 the Dark Ages sometimes.
10 (Laughter.)
11 JUDGE YOUNG: I like books still.
12 All right, let's see. Anything else?
13 (No response.)
14 JUDGE YOUNG: All right. Then we'll look 15 forward to hearing from petitioners I guess both this 16 Friday and then Monday on your motion on the signs, 17 from Ms. Uttal on anything related to who can provide 18 a limited appearance statement. And if anything else 19 arises, you are free to file anything in writing with 20 us.
21 Try to communicate with each other, 22 obviously, on anything as well so that anything you 23 can work out between you, you can do that.
24 We will send you more specific 25 notification on the time and also on the location for NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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18 1 the oral argument in South Haven. And we'll look 2 forward to seeing everyone November 3rd.
3 MR. LODGE: Very good.
4 JUDGE YOUNG: Does the Court Reporter need 5 anything else from us? Do we still have the Court 6 Reporter?
7 COURT REPORTER: Yes, I'm still here. I 8 don't need anything right now.
9 JUDGE YOUNG: Okay. Thank you all.
10 (Whereupon, the above-entitled conference 11 was concluded at 1:58 p.m.)
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CERTIFICATE This is to certify that the attached proceedings before the United States Nuclear Regulatory Commission in the matter of:
Name of Proceeding: Nuclear Management Company Palisades Nuclear Plant Docket Number: 50-255-LR ASLBP No.: 05-842-03-LR Location: teleconference were held as herein appears, and that this is the original transcript thereof for the file of the United States Nuclear Regulatory Commission taken by me and, thereafter reduced to typewriting by me or under the direction of the court reporting company, and that the transcript is a true and accurate record of the foregoing proceedings.
William Click Official Reporter Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.
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