ML030920372
| ML030920372 | |
| Person / Time | |
|---|---|
| Site: | Browns Ferry, Watts Bar, Sequoyah  |
| Issue date: | 04/20/1999 |
| From: | NRC/OI |
| To: | |
| Byrdsong A T | |
| References | |
| +adjud/ruledam200506, -RFPFR, 50-259-CIVP, 50-260-CIVP, 50-296-CIVP, 50-327-CIVP, 50-328-CIVP, 50-390-CIVP, ASLBP 01-791-01-CIVP, RAS 6215, TVA-Staff-97 | |
| Download: ML030920372 (77) | |
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RULE11AJUNGS AND ADJUDICATIONS STANl 58 x
ai the Matter of:
ITERVIEW OF ILSON COOPER McARTHUR
- LOSED)
Case No. 2-1998-013 x
Tennessee Valley Authority Lookout Place Building 12th and Chestnut Streets Chattanooga, Tennessee Tuesday, April 20, 1999 The above entitled matter came on for interview, pursuant to notice, at 10:43 a.m.
BEFORE:
DIANA S. BENSON, Investigator APPEAR~ANCES:
On Behalf of TENNESSEE VALLEY AUTHORITY:
BRENT R. MARQUAND, Senior Attorney TENNESSEE V7ALLEY AUTHORITY 400 West Sununitt Hill Drive YKnoxville, Tennessee 37902 ANN RILEY & ASSOCIATES, LTD.---
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WITNESS WILSON COOPER McARTHUR BY MS. BENSON EXAMINATION 4
E X HI BIT S
NUMBER
[NONE. I IDENTIFPIED ANN RILEY & ASSOCIATES, LTD.
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10 11 12 13 24 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 P R O C E E D I N G S
[10:43 a.m.]
MS. BENSON:
For the record today's date is April 20, 1999.
The time now it's approximately 10:43 a.m..
I am Special Agent Diana Benson of the NRC Office of Investigations and I will be conducting this interview.
During this proceeding which is being recorded for transcription the NRC Office of Investigations will conduct an interview of Wilson Cooper McArthur, M-c-Ar-t-h-u-r.
This interview pertains to 01 Investigation No. 2-1998-013.The location of this interview is TVA Lookout Place Building, Chattanooga, Tennessee.
Others in attendance at this interview are the Court Reporter Mr. J. B. Shelton and also TV Attorney with Office of General Counsel Mr. Brent R.
Marquand, M-a-r-q-u-a-n-d.
Prior to the interview, Mr. McArthur, was it explained to you that Mr. Marquand also not only represents you but also TVA?
THE INTERVIEWEE:
TVA, yes.
MS. BENSON:
Or the interest of TVA, and have you voluntarily asked him to be present today?
THE INTERVIEWEE:
Yes.
MS. BENSON:
Okay, and also prior to going on the record I asked you to look over Section 1001 of Title 18 of the U.S. Code. Did you read over that?
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>15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 THE INTERVIEWEE:
Yes.
MS. BENSON:
Do you understand that?
THE INTERVIEWEE:
Yes.
MS. BENSON:
Okay.
Whereupon, WILSON COOPER McARTHUR, the Interviewee, was called for examination and, having been first duly sworn, was examined and testified as follows.
DIRECT EXAMINATION BY MS. BENSON:
Q Mr. McArthur, for the record can you please state your full name?
A Wilson Cooper McArthur.
Q And your date of birth?
A Q
And your Social Security number?
A Q
Okay, also prior to going on the record I indicated to you that you're being interviewed concerning the 1996 Department of Labor discrimination complaint filed by Mr. Gary Fiser against TVA concerning the posting of his Corporate Chemistry position at Chattanooga, Tennessee during the 1996 time frame.
A Right.
Q Are you aware of what was occurring at that time?
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I've not seen official documents of any kind but was aware through various sources.
From Human Resources.
didn't know the details but I certainly know that this was going on.
Q Well I'm - but you were aware of the-posting of that particular position?
A Oh, absolutely, yes.
Q Okay, and can you please provide me with your employment history here at TVA?
A I came in April of 1990 as Manager of Technical Programs which consisted of RADCON, Chemistry, RADWASTE, environmental, --
prepared this security and fire protection.
Q Okay.
A I think that was it and that wan inrnhah1v fn-r I
I about three or four years.
Then there was reorganization and I was made as a RADCON Manager with responsibilities for RADCON, RADWASTE, environmental, and chemistry, and then --
Q A
Q A
Q A
Do you -
and what time was that?
I don't know exactly.
You don't recall what year that was?
No.
Okay.
That's one of the things I'm not very good at is ANN RILEY & ASSOCIATES, LTD.
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and Chemistry Support.
That's what my position is now.
Q And I'll go more into detail regarding these separate positions you know later on.
A Sure.
Q I'm just trying to basically get your experience here at TVA.
A Okay.
Q And prior to coming to TVA what were you doing?
A I was working - well I had had my own company out on the West Coast and sold the company to another company and they kept me on for a couple of years to you know to bring the company into their organization so the last company before TVA was a company called Quadrex.
Prior to that I had my company KLM which stood for Kanazrus*, --
and McArthur, three guys that were principles in the company.
Q Okay.
A And prior to that I was --
Q And what type of business was this?
A Consulting and radiological chemistry, RADWASTE matters.
We built robots, things like that.
Prior to that I was with -
prior to KLM I was with two consulting companies, EDS Nuclear and Tara.
Then prior to that I was with Carolina Power and Light Company for about eight years ANN RILEY & ASSOCIATES, LTD.
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Prior to that I was working on Ph.D..
Q Okay, and what do yo have your Ph.D. in?
A Logical Physics.
Radiation Physics I guess is probably the best way to --
Q Okay, and if you can please indicate to me your knowledge of Mr. Gary Fiser in your past working relationships with him.
A When I first came to TVA he was at Sequoyah.
Q And that was in April of '90?
A Right.
Q Okay.
A I don't -
from my recollection tells me that he was not the Chemistry Manager then.
He was the Outage Manager but sometime shortly thereafter he became the Chemistry Manager.
Q Okay.
A And then there was a switch from my Corporate Chemistry Manager a guy by the name of Bill Jocker* switched for a year period.
Had an agreement to switch for one year that Gary would come downtown to Corporate.
He came down to Corporate and let's see that was 19 -
I thought I would remember that.
I don't remember the specific date and in the new organization he became the -
one of the what we call Chemistry Environmental.
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Okay, and this is Mr. Fiser?
A This is Fiser, yes.
Q Okay.
A And then the organization reorganized again and we had three Chemistry Environmental - might have had four but I know we had three Chemistry Environmental people and we were -
and the decision had been made to bring that down to two.
At that point and time is when -
and we had a Board that interviewed.
There were a number of other people in addition to the three principle people, Sam Harvey, Chandra and Gary Fiser.
I take the two people, Sam Harvey and Chandra, and Gary then I'm not sure what happens after that.
I'm not -
you know as far as what Human Resources does.
I know that we would rift people before and they would go to some kind of organization.
I don't know the status of that or what happened from that point on.
Q Okay, so basically you knew Mr. Fiser from April of 1990 until he left the organization in '96?
A That's correct.
Q About that time frame?
A Un-hum.
Q And did you know him outside of work or socially at all?
A No, not at all.
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And what about Mr. Chandrasekeran what was your working knowledge of him?
A Similar.
He came to work after I came and he was probably about within a year after I came to TVA both he and well actually Bill Jocker came and then he --the two people, Sam Harvey and Chandra worked with him but he's with Line Power Company so they came on board also.
Q They came with Mr. Jocker?
A They didn't come with him.
Jocker came first.
Q And then kindly they followed him?
A Yes.
Q Okay, and so you knew both of them about the same time frame?
A Oh, yes.
Q Did you know either one of them outside of work here at all?
A No.
Q No social contacts with them at all?
A No.
Q Okay.
A Now that's during that time frame, okay.
Q Okay, well from 1990 to 1996?
A Yeah.
Q None at all?
A Nothing socially other than go to lunch once in a ANN RILEY & ASSOCIATES, LTD.
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Q No outside activities?
A No.
Q In 1993 Mr. Fiser filed a Department of Labor complaint against TVA.
What was your knowledge of that complaint?
A My first recollection when I talked with the lawyers here is I couldn't remember very much about it at all.
In fact I didn't know the basis -
I never saw anything official.
A document that stated what the concerns were.
I've never seen anything of that nature.
I became more aware of it by a little bit from people that I talked to they would tell me something, or then I was given a document this morning that one of my testimonies I referred to it or it leaves some indication I was knowledgeable but not -
I couldn't tell you what the concerns that Gary had in that particular DOL.
Q Do you know how that complaint was resolved?
A Um, again, nothing official but he would come back to a position in - who was then under a fellow by the name of Ron Grover.
I did not -
I was not the Manager of that group that he came back to.
Q What were you doing at that time?
A Undergoing a major cancer operation for ANN RILEY & ASSOCIATES, LTD.
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Q Okay.
A And he reported to Ron Grover who was - it was divided into the Manager Radiological Support and Manager of Chemistry and Environmental Support so the people in the Chemistry group held both chemistry and environmental responsibilities under Ron Grover.
Q Well we'll go back into this a little bit more later.
A Okay.
Q But in his 1993 Department of Labor complaint during that time frame from 1990 to '93 besides the positions that you previously listed were you on any of the Boards like Nuclear Safety Review Board?
A Yes, Nuclear Safety Review Board.
Q And how long were you a part of that?
A It's been off and on.
I'm still a part of that now but as an alternate at this point and time because of my job functions.
I know for at least four years - the first four years that I was a permanent member of NSRB and since then it's been on for a period of time and then as an alternate.
Q And did you work with Mr. McGrath in the NSRB?
A Mr. McGrath was the Chairman of the NSRB.
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Okay.
A I was on a sub-committee.
RADCON and chemistry sub-committee.
Q So you had working contacts with Mr. McGrath as far as the NSRB goes?
A Yes, that's correct.
Q And were you aware that Mr. Fiser's 1993 complaint had to do with his disagreement with the NSLB on some of the things they were trying to implement or change or procedures?
A I'm aware of that, yes.
Q And how did you become aware of that?
A We had a -
NSRB what we do is go down -
around and we would interview various people, and then we would go out into the Plant and look at conditions of equipment, those kinds of things.
We had a meeting in Gary's Office and this fellow by the name of Tom Peterson who is now an outside consultant to TVA he and I were in talking to Gary and we had found that - well there were really three concerns that day.
One of them had to do with the PASS.
Let's see --
Q For the record can you --
A Yes, --
sampling system.
MR.
MARQUAND:
Tell us what the acronym is for the record.
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\\._z' 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 13 THE INTERVIEWEE:
Okay.
The pass for some reason the p word slips in with us.
MR. MARQUAND:
Post --
sampling system.
BY MS. BENSON:
Q Okay.
A It's the lawyers telling me that.
I don 't know and then we also were concerned about under monitored released points.
We were talking about that, and the third area was the area that Tom Peterson and I both had looked at and normally in a nuclear power plant in the Chemistry Department you trend a lot of different things.
Let's see your sodium, phosphates, dissolved oxygen, those kinds of things you do that on a routine basis to see if anything is getting out of kilter, and for whatever reasons Gary wasn't doing that.
In fact one of the documents I read last night he made the comment that he was doing better than any other Plants in the USA which is absolutely not true so we were concerned because we weren't trending things, and Gary said well I'm just not going to do it.
lQ Un-hum.
A So we began to continue the discussion on the basis well this is a smart thing to do.
We need to be doing this kind of thing.
His comment was I don't have the resources.
Itm going back in memory trying to remember what ANN RILEY & ASSOCIATES, LTD.
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If I remember correctly we wrote it up in the minutes of the NSRB meeting.
What it was -
and this is not uncommon.
We do have these kind of problems at other sites too.
The people just say I don't have resources I can't do this.
I didn't see it as an unusual thing.
I thought it was one that we needed to convince him that it made sense to do trending just from the standpoint of knowing what's going on at the Plant.
Q Un-hum.
A But we were not very successful.
Q Un-hum.
Had he been having problems with the computer system that they logged the information on to do these trends? Had there been a problem with that?
A Not that I'm aware of.
I don't remember --
Q Because you had indicated that you know he hadn't been doing them, or you know there was a --
A Yeah, it was a conscious decision not to do them.
Q Un-hum, but you don't know whether there was in fact a problem with the computer system or whatever system he was using?
A Most of these things you could do manually if you didn't have - you don't have to use a computer system.
Q Well you know I'm not arguing that but I mean do ANN RILEY & ASSOCIATES, LTD.
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A No.
Q Okay, so after this meeting that you had with Mr.
Fiser and he declined to implement a procedure is that what it was?
A That wasn't a decline to implement a procedure.
He declined to track and trend chemistry data.
Q Okay.
A He was tracking some but he wasn't tracking the normal things you would track in a PWR.
It was a very strong feeling on the part of Mr. Peterson.
He's an outside consultant in the chemistry area.
He felt very strongly that we should be doing that tracking and trending.
Q Un-hum.
Were they not doing any tracking or --
A They done some.
Q You're saying they weren't as doing as much as he felt they should be doing?
A And it was more not doing enough.
Q And after this meeting you had were you present in a room when Mr. McGrath was speaking to Mr. Fiser?
A Yes.
Q Okay, you were in the room?
A Yes.
Q Was Mr. McGrath upset with Mr. Fiser?
A Not any more than usual.
He was upset over the ANN RILEY & ASSOCIATES, LTD.
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,15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 16 fact that we weren't getting any place on this tracking and trending but that was -
it was nothing uncommon.
It was you know that was his nature.
He wasn't angry with his eyes blurring or something like that.
They was just saying it doesn't make any sense.
We need to be doing the tracking and trending.
Q Now was the -
of course we're getting back into the 1993 complaint.
A Okay.
Q But I just want to find out what your analysis is of this but was the request to do more trends or was the request to implement a written procedure stating he would do that?
A Um, I don't recall that.
I think that the only information I could give you is that there are probably thirty-five -
on that order of thirty-five things that you would trend in chemistry in a nuclear power plant.
We were probably trending four or five.
Q Un-hum.
A The thing about the procedure I mean it's possible that Tom could have asked for a procedure but I don't recall that.
Q Okay. Anyway you -
correct me if I'm wrong but you indicated this was the basis of Mr. Fiser's '93 DOL complaint was this disagreement --
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As good as I know -
honestly, I better say no to know because I don't know.
I did not - never saw anything.
I heard different things but I never heard the details of what --
Q What other different things did you hear regarding the complaint?
A It had something to do with protective what do you call it - working in a protected area.
That's not the right way to say it.
There were safety concerns and I don't have any idea what any of those were.
Q Okay.
A I don't have any idea.
Q And any other rumors about what his DOL complaint was about?
A No.
Q Were you familiar with Mr. Bill Jocker?
A Yes.
Q Were you familiar that he had also been involved in a DOL complaint against TVA?
A Yes.
Q Were you made aware that Mr. Fiser had been secretly tape recording you?
A Yes, I was made aware of that.
Q Okay, and what were you told about this recording ANN RILEY & ASSOCIATES, LTD.
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I was just told to be careful that Gary was tape recording people and it became obvious to me because right after that on several occasions he came in and he would ask blunt questions.
Obviously, he was seeking something.
I said Gary, that's not the right question to ask me.
It's not any of your business or something bf that nature.
I knew he was tape recording me.
Q Un-hum.
A I didn't know at the time what for but I was notified.
I didn't know that he was doing that.
Q Un-hum, and when you were notified of this tape recording what were you told about it?
A Just told to be careful that he is tape recording.
There was not no other comments other than you're being tape recorded be careful.
You could be tape recorded be careful.
Q Were you allowed to review the transcripts that had been transcribed based on the tape recorded conversations?
A I went -
I guess we went through some of them at one point and time.
They were very - not very good information on them.
A lot of problems in translating but we did look at them at one point and time very briefly.
Not in detail.
MR. MARQUAND:
I think he may be mixing up those with the transcripts of the IG tape recordings of the Jocker ANN RILEY & ASSOCIATES, LTD.
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MS. BENSON:
Un-hum.
MR. MARQUAND: Those are the only transcripts I've ever seen.
MS. BENSON:
Okay.
THE INTERVIEWEE:
Yeah, my mind tells me I had looked at them briefly and they were just -
in fact I think I was told by TVA Legal that the basis stuff was not very clear.
You couldn't comprehend anything on the tapes and that's about what I thought I saw.
BY MS. BENSON:
Q Un-hum.
Who else did you tell that Mr. Fiser had been tape recording people?
A I told my boss.
Q And who was that?
A At that point and time it was probably John McJeskey or Dan Kiter.
One of the two.
I'm not sure.
Q And who else?
A I don't recall.
I didn't make it a general statement to people.
Q Did you advise Charles Kent that you were - that you had been tape recorded?
A I don't think so but it's possible.
Charles is our peer group leader so that would be a feasible thing but I don't remember doing that.
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And what about Mr. Easley did you tell him you had A
I think I probably the Human Resources person that's the kind of thing I would tell Human Resources.
Q Un-hum.
A I don't recall a specific time doing that but I wouldn't be surprised if I didn't do that.
Q Did you tell anyone else?
A No, I don't think so.
Q It was pretty common knowledge among the Corporate chemistry people according to the ones I've interviewed so far that he had been tape recording so --
A Okay.
Q I'm just trying to establish you know your specific knowledge and who you may have told.
Were you ever interviewed as a witness in Mr. Fiser's 1993 DOL complaint?
A Um, I don't know.
Brent, can you help me out there?
MR. MARQUAND:
He was interviewed by the 1G.
I don't know who else he may have talked to.
BY MS. BENSON:
Q So you were actually a witness in the 1993 DOL complaint?
MR. MARQUAND:
It never was tried.
There was no witnesses per se.
The IG talked to a number of people.
We AIIN RILEY & ASSOCIATES, LTD.
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MS. BENSON:
Okay, but that was following a DOL complaint?
MR. MARQUAND:
Yes.
MS. BENSON:
And DOL never did an investigation.
You're just saying IG's?
MR. MARQUAND:
I don't know.
I don't remember if DOL did an investigation.
In fact I think they might not have because it was settled before it went to -
I think it was settled before it went - it was decided by Wage and Hour.
BY MS. BENSON:
Q So basically as far as the 1993 complaint you may have been interviewed just by the TVA IG?
A That -
was that --
MR. MARQUAND:
That was by TVA IG that I'm aware of.
I don't know if Wage and Hour did interviews.
It was their practice to postpone those as long as they could to see if there was going to be a settlement.
You know this case -
that case didn't get settled until '95 some fifteen, sixteen months after it was filed.
It took them forever.
MS. BENSON:
Un-hum.
BY MS. BENSON:
Q How did you feel about the treatment Mr. Fiser got during 1993 when he was placed into the ETB program or I ANN RILEY & ASSOCIATES, LTD.
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MR. MARQUAND:
Employee transition program.
A Employee transition program.
Q Employee transition program at TVA.
A Well actually I had tried to keep him.
I thought Gary was a good chemist.
He was very strong rated primary chemistry guy.
Not very good in secondary chemistry but at that point and time I thought I would be able to save him downtown because they had one fellow, Don Adams, that was going to take a position out at Sequoyah so I thought that I would have that head count to keep him on, but then that head count was taken away so I did not have a position for him.
You know he was a good man.
Q And that's a '90 -
after the '93 complaint?
A I think that's -
I believe that's correct.
Q Did you ever talk to Ron Grover about the fact that Mr. Fiser was being placed into the chemistry -
Corporate Chemistry Division following his -
as a part of his 1993 complaint?
A I don't remember a specific conversation.
Q That he was coming into this position as a result of a settlement?
A I think that all transpired after Ron Grover became the Manager of that group so, therefore, I wouldn't be involved but I don't remember having any kind of ANN RILEY & ASSOCIATES, LTD.
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Q So you may or may not have is what you're saying.
You don't recall?
A I don't recall.
Q Okay.
Do you ever recall stating that you felt Fiser had been done wrong and that he was a real good guy and he deserved a good shot?
A Like I said I thought he was a good chemist.
I mean with certain limitations.
You know we --
to TVA quite frequently so you get use to that kind of thing happening.
You also have to make choices sometimes of filling positions with two out of three or something so - yeah, I don't like to see anybody lose their job.
Q Yeah, but do you recall making that comment?
A No.
Q Is it possible you could have made that comment?
A Yes.
Q Do you recall what position Sam Harvey was holding in Corporate Chemistry from '93 to '96?
A Let's see -
I think it was in one of these positions of Chemistry and Environmental -
the TGA position.
The same thing the other -
Chandra and Gary were filling I believe in that time frame.
Q And were you ever approached by anybody in 1996 after you were made Manager regarding the possible -
no, ANN RILEY & ASSOCIATES, LTD.
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A Okay.
Q While you were still there did you remember discussing with anyone about a possible transfer of Sam Harvey from Corporate over to Sequoyah?
A Yes.
Q Who did you talk to about that?
A Charles Kent.
Q And what was discussed?
A He felt that Sam was a very valuable person both primary and second chemistry.
He wanted him out at Sequoyah and I told him that you know I would have to talk to Tom McGrath and I'm sure it was Tom McGrath.
Tom basically said no, we can't do that.
They have to advertise the position so he never really ended up going to Sequoyah.
Q Did Charles talk to you about this, or did he talk to Ron Grover about this?
A He probably talked to both of us.
I know he talked to me because he wanted Sam out at the site.
Q But did Sam belong to you at that point?
A When we first started talking about it, yes.
When we went into the new organization RADCON and Chemistry I'm sure that's the point and time he would have talked to Ron if he did.
I can't say for sure.
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Well I'm talking about in 1996 what position did you hold prior to being placed in the RAD Chem Environmental position?
A I was the RADCON Manager.
Q And who worked for you?
A Chemistry, RADCON, RADWASTE:
I think that's right.
Q And what position did Ron Grover hold?
A He was Manager of Chemistry and Environmental.
Q And who worked for him?
A Wait a minute.
Did I say chemistry?
Q Un-hum.
A I had RADWASTE and RADCON.
Okay, I'm sorry and Ron Grover had chemistry and environmental.
Q So who worked for him?
A I don't know if I know everybody but he had Sam Harvey, Chandra, a guy by the name of David Serell, and a lady by the name of Dee Drinita*.
I believe that's correct.
Q Okay.
A And there may have been others but that's the only ones I can remember.
Q So going back to my previous question did Charles Kent ask you about this, or do you know whether Charles Kent talked to Ron Grover about this?
A I can't tell you anything about Ron Grover.
I ANN RILEY & ASSOCIATES, LTD.
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9 10 11 12 13 14 K>'15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 know that every since I've been here - every since Sam has been here Sequoyah has been trying to transfer Sam Harvey to Sequoyah so there were many conversations in that regard.
Q Un-hum.
I'm just kindly trying to wonder why Charles Kent would have talked to you when Ron Grover was his boss?
A Well at one point and time it was appropriate because he was working for me.
Q But during that time frame he belonged to Ron Grover?
A I don't know if I talked to him during that time.
I don't recall the specific dates.
I just know that Charles Kent wanted him out at the site.
Q Okay.
A In fact I'believe Ron Grover came to me and said the same thing and so we made Tom aware and Tom said no, it's not something we can do without putting this position up for -
advertise this position.
Q A
Q transfer A
Q Sequoyah Do you know why the position was not advertised?
Which position?
That position at Sequoyah that they were trying to him into?
I have no idea.
Was there any discussion of moving Fiser out to or trying to get him to advertise or advertise ANN RILEY & ASSOCIATES, LTD.
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positions so Fiser could fill that position?
2 A
I don't know of any -
I really don't know what 3
went on there.
That was a site situation.
4 Q
So nobody discussed that possibility with you?
5 A
No.
6 Q
And was there a vacant position out at Sequoyah?
7 A
I don't think there was a vacant position at that 8
point and time.
They were looking -
that was the reason 9
they were having trouble because they didn't have a head 10 count that could bring somebody out and that's my 11 recollection.
12 Q
After you went in as the -
or transferred into the 13 RAD CHEM Environmental position - Manager.
14 A
RAD Chem for radiological control -
radiological 15 and chemistry services, yeah.
16 Q
Okay, I'm sorry if I'm mispronouncing that.
17 A
It's okay.
18 Q
Did -
and before those other positions were 19 advertised, the chemistry positions were advertised and the 20 other ones that were being filled, was Mr. Harvey assigned 21 temporarily out to Sequoyah do you know?
22 A
I know he was there for steam generator outage 23 like a weeks time frame or something like that.
He was 24 working for David Gatches* who is our Steam Generator 25 Manager.
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A Un-hum.
We do that quite often.
We loan people for outages.
Q Okay, going back to July the first reorganization that you all went through in July or during 1994.
A This was the one where I became the RADCON Manager?
Q Right.
A Okay.
Q Okay, the position you held before that was Manager of Technical Support.
A Programs, yeah.
Q And then in July -
the time frame of July of '94 as a part of this reorganization that position was eliminated?
A Yes.
Q And a new position was created?
A Right.
Q And you were ultimately selected for this new position of RAD --
A CON Manager.
Q RADCON Manager.
Who were you working for at the time?
A Q
John McJeskey.
And do you know who was responsible for rewriting ANN RILEY & ASSOCIATES, LTD.
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10 11 12 13 14 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 those position descriptions and the vacancy announcements for the new positions in 1994?
A I don't know anything about but I usually write my own job description.
That's been my experience.
I don't remember specifically writing that one but I suspect that I did.
Q Does Human Resources normally assist in that?
A They just take and file them away.
In fact I've got an understanding that there is a description for me as Manager Technical Programs apparently but I do specifically remember writing one.
The one for RADCON Manager I don't think Human Resources found a copy.
They do have a copy of my current position.
Q Un-hum, but you wrote the one in '94?
A Yes.
Q And do you have a copy of that?
A No, I've looked.
We've moved a couple of times and it may still be in a box some place but I haven't been able to find it.
Q But there was a position description on that?
A I remember writing a position description.
Q Okay, and what do you do once you write a position description who do you give it to?
A You get approval from your boss first, and then you give it to Human Resources.
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Do you know whether you got approval for that position description?
A I honestly do not remember.
Q Okay.
A I know it was submitted you know but I don't know if it ever was signed and sent back.
I just don't have any recollection.
Q It was submitted to who?
A Tom McGrath and to Human Resources.
Q Okay.
A I probably sent an advance copy to them saying this is in the hands of my boss he's reviewing it so they would know what is going on because that was the normal practice.
Q And your boss at the time was?
A Tom McGrath.
Q It wasn't McJeskey at the time?
A No. but we were going through a lot of changes during Q
A careful McJeske this period of time.
Okay.
I remember specifically - well I'm being a little I think it was Tom McGrath.
MR. MARQUAND:
Wasn't there somebody else between By and McGrath too?
THE INTERVIEWEE:
Dan Kiter.
It could have been ANN RILEY & ASSOCIATES, LTD.
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15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Dan Kiter.
MR. MARQUAND:
I thought Kiter was before that.
THE INTERVIEWEE:
That's right.
That's right.
Kiter was before McJeskey.
McJeskey and then Tom McGrath and now Jack Bailey.
MR. MARQUAND:
What about Don Moody?
THE INTERVIEWEE:
Oh, yeah.
Yeah, I can't forget Don.
He was in there before -
let's see he -
what's ---
Who was - I can't remember if he was before McJeskey or not.
I think it was just before McJeskey.
BY MS. BENSON:
Q Or was he after McJeskey?
A Q
I -
right now I can't --
Who was the one that passed away?
MR. MARQUAND:
Don Moody died I believe at the time McGrath took over.
THE INTERVIEWEE:
That's what it was, yeah.
- Yeah, that's correct. Tom took over Acting from Don Moody.
BY MR. BENSON:
Q So in 1994 do you recall who you were working for?
A No.
I'm sorry.
I'm sure I can go back in my notes and find out.
MR. MARQUAND:
Mr. McGrath I think will have a fairly good recollection when he took over and at least when Don Moody was in the office.
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10 11 12 13 14 K2.15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 MS. BENSON:
Un-hum, because it seems to me looking at those past descriptions that you all sent to me during this time frame that McJeskey may have been in there.
MR. MARQUAND:
I think that at least at the outset he was when you look at --
I think McJeskey was there.
MS. BENSON:
Un-hum, un-hum, Itm pretty sure.
BY MS. BENSON:
Q writing A
Q A
So, anyway, the point being is that do you recall that position description?
Yes, I do.
And do you recall submitting that to someone?
Yes, I do.
Q Okay, you're not sure who you submitted it to?
A No, I'm sure I gave it to Human Resources.
Ben Easley was my contact at that point and time and also to whoever was the Manager of what was called Operations Support back then.
Q What is it called now?
A It's now called Engineering and Technical Support.
Q I didn't know it had changed.
A I can't even keep up with the name changes.
Q But you don't recall ever seeing that back again or anything like that?
A Usually what would happen is they were sent in they would go to the Pay Committee.
Pay Committee would do ANN RILEY & ASSOCIATES, LTD.
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15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 an evaluation and then you get that evaluation back.
I don't recall ever getting the evaluation back.
It pretty well tells you were you stand on the pay scale and that kind of thing, but I don't remember that happening.
It could have happened but I don't remember that.
MR. MARQUAND:
If you recall the --
it does have McJeskey's name on it.
I believe it does say that it was pending and it uses the word --
(cannot hear due to someone coughing at this point.) approval.
BY MS. BENSON:
Q When you - after you wrote that position were you interviewed for that job?
A Yes.
Q And who interviewed you?
A John McJeskey.
Q So that would have been your supervisor.
Right?
A Yeah, it makes me -
it helps out.
Q And were there any other applicants for that position that you're aware of?
A I honestly cannot say.
All I know is that John McJeskey called me in and said you have the RADCON Chemistry the RADCON Manager position.
Q Un-hum.
A That's all I can tell you.
Q Okay.
In comparing and I need you to think back -
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9 10 11 12 13 14 3.5 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 34 MR. MARQUAND: You said -
did you say the RADCON Chemistry --
THE INTERVIEWEE:
I changed it to RADCON.
MR.
MARQUAND:
Okay.
MS. BENSON:
RAfDCON Manager at the time.
BY MS. BENSON:
Q In comparing the RADCON position that you were selected for and the position description that you wrote were the Manager of Technical Support or the exact title I'm not sure what was the difference in those job descriptions?
A It was a lot more to the Technical but all the things that were in the RADCON and any other positions that I've had were part of the original Technical Program position.
Things like at one point and time security was -
I kept -
I talked to Management and said it doesn't make sense for Corporate to have -
security ought to be at the sites so they transferred 650 policemen to the sites.
Divided them into sites.
Fire protection was the same thing so those and industrial safety.
I didn't even mention that earlier so that was transferred out by our Training Academy so then what was left was --
and this RADCON, Chemistry, Environmental, RADWASTE, and of course the new position was some of those elements but not all the elements.
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So the new position basically certain job functions were taken away?
A That's correct.
Q But you still maintain some of the old ones?
A Yes, that's correct.
Q And when you got the new position as RADCON Manager was that position ever changed along the way?
From
'94 to '96 were additional functions added on to that job?
A I don't think so.
I don't recall anything.
Q And after you were selected for the position of RAD and I say RADCON Chem --
A Yes.
Q Manager in '96 were additional duties added on to that job description?
A This is my current position?
Q Right.
A Yes.
Q When exactly were you selected for that position?
Do you remember the date?
A No.
Q And who wrote the job description for that?
A I did.
Q And has that been revised?
A No.
Q Okay, have you added responsibilities on since you ANN RILEY & ASSOCIATES, LTD.
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16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 initially wrote that description?
A I think it was a point and time that Management said they wanted -
I'm also responsible -
I didn't mention this either.
I'm responsible for Ermi* which is a laboratories for calibrating, repairing TVA instruments and Management told us to go out and seek business outside of TVA for the Ermi Facility. At that point and time I recall making a little change to the position description.
That's the only one I know of.
Q Since 1996 that's the only change you're aware of?
A That I can think of.
Q And you don't know exactly what day you were selected for that?
A No.
Q During the time that you was selected for that position in '96 and I'm looking at the summer time of 1996 what position was Ron Grover selected for?
A Chemistry Manager.
Q In '96?
A Yeah, when I was selected as the RADCON Manager he was selected as --
MR. MARQUAND:
No, we're talking '96 not 194.
THE INTERVIEWEE:
Oh, okay.
Then I was selected as Radiological Control and Chemistry Services.
Somewhere along there he went to Empo.
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Q Okay.
A And that's what -
I don't know if he had a position here or not as such but I know he went to Empo right around that point and time.
Q When you were selected for that position did you have -
was that position advertised?
A No.
Q Did you have to interview for that position?
A I don't remember a specific interview, no.
Q Okay.
A I think they went back to the original Technical Programs position.
In fact I was under the impression it was going to be advertised and Human Resources made a decision not to advertise the position.
That's what I understand the case was.
Q And prior to being transferred into that position or selected for that position what pay grade level were you?
A Well Technical Programs I was a PG Senior.
Until I was a RADCON Manager I was a PG 11, and then when it come to this - back to this position I was PG Senior.
Q And you don't recall the approximate date that you started fulfilling the duties of the new position of RADCON Chem Manager in 1996?
A No.
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A Q
A Time frame at all?
I've never been good --
Okay.
At that kind of things.
MR. MARQUAND:
Maybe it would help if you could -
if you need to put it in context of some events he might b able to do that.
MS. BENSON:
Well you know you can always look at it's not that important because we know --
MR. MARQUAND:
Okay.
MS. BENSON:
We know ourselves.
BY MS. BENSON:
Q I'm just trying to see if you have that recollection yourself.
A Okay.
Q In your new responsibilities were you made responsible for selecting members to be on the Board, screening panel for the other positions that were going to be advertised?
A Yes, all positions.
Q All positions?
A All positions were going to be advertised in the new organization.
Q And who made you responsible for selecting the Board members?
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A Tom McGrath.
2 Q
And who did you contact to be on this Board?
3 A
Well first of all I wanted to have Chemistry 4
Managers from each site and I checked with the RADCON 5
Chemistry Manager due to schedules that was an 6
impossibility, and so at one of our RADCON peer group 7
meetings RADCON Chemistry Manager said well, you know, might 8
as well use the RADCON Chemistry Managers because we're the 9
people that you're providing us support to.
So it was going 10 to be John Cory from Brown's Ferry.
Charles Kent from 11 Sequoyah and Jack Cox from Watts Bar. That was the plan.
12 Then Jack Cox was unable to be a member.
I know 13 those were the three people we selected.
Was unable to be a 14 member for some kind of schedule reasons.
We tried to find 15 an alternate from Watts Bar.
We talked to the Assistant 16 Plant Manager and he was unable to attend on this particular 17 day.
18 Then in talking with Tom McGrath and with Human 19 Resources they felt that Rick Rogers who knew Gary they had 20 worked together at Sequoyah would be a good member to put on 21 the Board so we would have no - not very much knowledge of 22 the other guys who thought that was a fair thing to do.
23 Q
So you contacted each one of the site Chemistry 24 Managers and no one was able to --
date?
25 A
I didn't contact the Chemistry Manager.
I talked ANN RILEY & ASSOCIATES, LTD.
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I think a couple of outages were coming up and it was just impossible that the core of those people leave.
Q So it was decided that during one of the peer group meetings because everybody is getting together anyway we'll go ahead and hold the interviews during that time?
A They were going to hold them after our next RADCON Chemistry peer group meeting.
We would have a meeting in the morning and do the interviews in the afternoon.
Q And can you explain why again Mr. Cox was not selected to be on the Board?
A He was selected.
Q And why he was not -
ended up --
A I can't respond to that because he just said I won't be available.
Q Do you ever remember having a discussion with Mr.
McGrath wherein it was discussed that he should not be on the Board because he had indicated he was in favor of Mr.
Fiser because of the support Fiser had provided?
A That's correct.
Q And that because of this time constraint thing and his favoring Fiser that he shouldn't - would not be able to biased or unbiased?
A The way I understand it we were having a little of ANN RILEY & ASSOCIATES, LTD.
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10 11 12 13 14 V15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 coffee break after a RADCON Chemistry peer group meeting.
We were standing outside and at that point and time I knew that Jack wasn't going to be available but he made the further comment.
He said that well I don't need to be a member anyway.
You guys already know what my vote is.
I would vote for Gary Fiser and I mentioned this to Tom, and Tom said well that would exclude him from the Board.
The Humai Resources said the same thing you know.
Q Who in Human Resources said that?
A I'm sure it would be Ben Easley. Again, I don't remember specifically who it was.
Q Un-hum.
A He was my contact for Human Resources.
Q So did you notify Mr. Cox that he wouldn't be needed on the Board?
A Oh, yeah.
Well we knew he wouldn't be there but we would rather have had him on the Board.
That was the first preference but due to his own schedule or whatever he was unable to be a part of it.
Q Were you ever told that you shouldn't hold the Board without Mr. Cox being there?
A No.
I talked with my boss about this on a number of -
I was sensitive to the fact we wanted to do this thing right, and from my standpoint having Rick Rogers on board ANN RILEY & ASSOCIATES, LTD.
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It was a very fair Board.
Q And why do you consider that made it a fair Board?
A Knowing Rick Rogers is a very professional individual.
I have a lot of respect for him.
I thought he would be a fair evaluator.
Q And the other two members on the Board were Charles Kent and --
A And John Cory.
Q John Cory, and they were -
Charles Kent was from Sequoyah?
A Right.
Q And Mr. Harvey provided support to Charles Kent anid his organization?
A Actually, he provided support to all three sites but much more of his time was spent at Sequoyah.
Q And John Cory was it Watts -
not Watts Bar --
A Brown's Ferry.
Q Brown's Ferry and Chandra had provided him support?
A That's correct.
Q Chandrasekaren.
A Right.
Q So that leaves us Watts Bar?
A Right.
Q And that's where Mr. Fiser had been providing ANN RILEY & ASSOCIATES, LTD.
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A Q
Voeller*
A Q
43 That's correct.
Was there ever any consideration of having Mr.
stand in for Mr. Cox?
I don't remember that.
What kind of Chemistry background does Mr. Rogers have?
A It's more of an engineering background.
I can't really state to you what his Chemistry background is.
He was at that point and time he was a support to Operations so Chemistry would be involved in his day to day work, but as far as his degrees and that kind of thing I don't know.
Q And what kind of support did any one of these candidates, Chandra, Harvey, and Fiser, provide to Mr.
Rogers in the past?
A All I can tell you is they - it was a day to day function site operations.
The Chemistry worked together very closely so from my side I can't sit here and tell you that Rick Rogers and Gary communicated every day but I'm sure they had to have communications to work with each other.
Q A
Q A
Okay.
And he had a pretty high opinion of Gary.
Un-hum.
I knew that.
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s15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Q
Un-hum.
Who was responsible for rewriting these job descriptions for the Chemistry positions?
A This is the new Chemistry Environmental positions?
Q Un-hum.
A Ron Grover.
Q Well not - this is when Environmental was taken away.
A Oh, okay, you're going back to the RADCON.
Q No, let's see we were taking away -
in '96 prior to the reorganization you had Chemistry and Environmental together?
A Right.
Q And then as a result of this reorganization they took Environmental away?
A Okay.
Q And do you recall who --
A This is my current position we're talking about?
Q Exactly.
A Yeah.
Q Do you recall who wrote the other position descriptions for the other Chemistry positions?
A They were under my direction.
Q So did you write them or someone else?
A No, individuals would write them and then I would review them, change them, discuss them, that kind of thing ANN RILEY & ASSOCIATES, LTD.
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Q Was Ron Grover participating in this -
rewriting of those job descriptions?
A He probably was.
My direct answer is I don't know.
Q Okay.
A But I'm sure I had enough confidence in Ron I would expect him to be involved because he knew the people much better than I did.
Q Un-hum.
A And had been very much involved in the current problems in the Chemistry areas.
Q And what about Ben Easley was he involved in rewriting the job descriptions?
A No.
Q Nobody consulted with him?
A Not that I recall.
I don't see what kind of value he had he would have provided.
Q Does - well that's a Human Resources question anyway.
A Basically broken it down in two positions. The Chemistry is a PWR Chemistry person and a BWR Chemistry person.
Q Un-hum, okay.
Do you ever recall being told that these -
that Mr. Fiser should be allowed to roll over into ANN RILEY & ASSOCIATES, LTD.
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10 11 12 13 14 Kl15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 46 that new position, or any complaint from Mr. Fiser that it was not fair for TVA to advertise that position?
A Gary never came to me directly with that comment that I can recall.
I probably heard -
I'm not sure exactly when I heard that was the case but, again, it was one of these things that wasn't factual.
It might have been Human Resources that said something to me.
Q Prior to holding this Board who in Human Resources was working with you on preparing the selection Board packages and packages for the selection Board?
A Ben Easley.
Q Okay, Ben Easley.
In my understanding of this and I could be wrong because you know I'm not an HR person is that when the -
after the positions are advertised a package is put together on that candidate and it's given to the Manager of the position whoever the position falls under.
Do you know who -
do you remember receiving individual packages on applicants for all those?
A Yes.
Q And can you recall what was inside those packages?
A Let's see there was a resume and, of course, the announcement. A resume and job history.
Information like that.
That's all I can recall on that.
Q Do you recall there being any evaluation in those individual packages not on the Board selection packages but ANN RILEY & ASSOCIATES, LTD.
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A An evaluation.
You mean like -
I'm not sure what Q
Performance evaluations?
A I'm really not sure.
Q Okay.
A Sometimes I've been on Boards before where we do have evaluation forms but I don't remember them being a part of this.
Q Who was responsible from Management's standpoint of compiling the notebooks used by the Board?
A Human Resources.
Q Do they assist you in that or --
A They put them together.
Q Okay.
A They first of all bring up a sheet of all the people that have applied.
Q Un-hum.
A And we would go down -
I with Human Resources would go down I'd say well this guy doesn't have the degree and then so we would eliminate some names.
Q Un-hum.
A Right off the bat and then the remaining people were the ones that we would interview for the position.
Q Now when they put together these -
the packages ANN RILEY & ASSOCIATES, LTD.
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A Yes.
Q Of all the applicants?
A Correct.
Q And the questions that are used during the interview?
A Yes.
Q And the vacancy announcement and whatever else in there.
Who - you're saying Human Resources prepared those packages?
A That's right.
Q For this Board?
A That's correct.
Q And who did they give those to?
A They gave them to me and I handed them out to the Board members.
Q And did you remove anything that was contained in those notebooks before giving them to the Board members?
A I wouldn't do that.
Q I'm not saying in violation of policy --
A No, just don't do that.
Q Do you recall those evaluations ever being in those packages?
A No.
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Do you recall --
A I wouldn't be surprised if we didn't have some but I really do not remember whether they were or not.
Q Do you recall instructing anybody in Human Resources not to include evaluations in the packages going to the Board members?
A No.
Q And you don't recall ever removing evaluations from a Board package?
A I didn't remove them.
Okay.
Q Okay.
Do you know whether anyone else removed them?
A No.
Q Evaluations?
A No.
Q Did anyone else have access to either the notebook on each - package on each applicant or the notebook given to the Board member?
A I had them in my office but you know I can't --
Q Did you ever give those to Mr. McGrath?
A I don't think so.
Q Okay.
A He normally -
the general policy in TVA is I was handled it in my level and other people very seldom -
I would keep Tom aware of what we were doing and who was on ANN RILEY & ASSOCIATES, LTD.
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9 10 11 12 13 14 1~5 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 the selection Board and that was the reason that we made that when Jack couldn't be on there he was involved in helping me find somebody that could fill that position.
In fact he's the one that asked me to call the Assistant Plant Manager at Watts Bar and we couldn't --
that one out, but he was very - very little.
He didn't come to the hearing Board or anything so it was very little involvement on his part.
Q Do you know whether he looked -
reviewed any of these packages or the Board notebooks?
A I have no knowledge.
I would be very surprised if he did.
Q Un-hum.
A I know he didn't come to me.
Q But you don't know?
A I don't know.
Q And you're saying that you never gave them to him?
A No.
Q For review?
A No, that was not common practice to do that.
Q Un-hum, and he never asked to see those?
A Not that I can recall.
Q Now you mentioned just a second ago about was it Cox because he wasn't able to be on the Board.
You know I'm not quite sure what you were saying.
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He had some schedule conflict.
Q Un-hum.
A I don't -
I can't remember if Watts Bar was in an outage then or not which is really tough to get people away from the sites during outages, but he had some specific reason that he wanted to leave by 1:00.
We had the peer group meeting in the morning and then about 1:00 we were going to start the interviews and he just wasn't able to stay for the interviews.
MS. BENSON:
Excuse me for a minute.
[Pause.)
Q After Mr. Cox told you and I don't recall whether you indicated this to me because I know we've jumped around quite a bit on different issues, but after Mr. Cox indicated to you that he had something else planned and wasn't going to be able to be there on the Board do you remember stating to anyone that you would have to talk to McGrath about this before you all made a decision on you know who was going to be a Board member?
A I don't remember if I did that but I did talk to Jack - to Tom about it because you know I figured we needed to find somebody else to fill that position and we were under the gun to get it done in a fairly short period of time, so I did talk to Tom but I don't know if I mentioned it to anybody else or not.
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And I know I asked you this earlier but did anybody recommend to you from Human Resources or from any other organization even your own that you really should have Mr. Cox there?
A No.
Q You don't recall that -
anyone recommending that to you?
A No.
Q Ron Grover?
A No, not that I recall.
Q Did you ever tell Mr. McGrath that this recommendation was made to you?
A I didn't know anything about a recommendation.
Q How soon before the Board met or before that last peer group meeting when the interviews were held that afternoon and I may have asked you this earlier but you know when did you say Cox indicated that he was going to be busy?
A It was sometime before - we had a RADCON peer group meeting.
The next following meeting we were going to have the peer group meeting and have the interviews in the afternoon.
Q Un-hum.
A Somewhere along that time frame he just said I won't be Q
available that afternoon.
Un-hum.
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He told this to all the RADCON Chemistry Managers and myself and the ones from the other sites.
Q Okay, and he told you this during that first peer group meeting?
A I believe that's the case.
Q When you all were deciding to hold the next -
interviews during the next peer group meeting?
A That's right.
Q He stated at that meeting and everyone heard?
A Yes.
Q That he wouldn't be able to make it at that time?
A Well I can't guarantee everybody heard but I heard it.
Q And he also stated at that time that you know he would vote for Fiser and --
A Yeah, somehow -
I don't know.
I can't give you the exact time frame but somewhere along in that period of time he made that comment.
Q And at no time at all did you ask Mr. Voeller to represent Watts Bar on that Board?
A It's a possibility.
I don't remember that.
The RADCON Chemistry Managers-basically said in the peer group meeting it makes sense the three of us to do it.
Q Un-hum.
A You know because we're the customer.
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Right.
A We're the primary first customer.
Q In the --
A Remember I said in the very beginning that we did try to get the Chemistry Managers at one time and Voeller was one of those.
Q Un-hum.
A And the RADCON Chemistry Managers just said they weren't available so that would make it seem kindly strange for me to go to Voeller separately and independently of their --
Q Did you ask Mr. Cox whether Voeller could represent him?
A Again, I don't remember that specifically but that would have been common for me to have done.
Q Un-hum, that would make sense but you don't recall asking him that?
A No.
No, wait -
man, I'm really trying to dig back in my memory.
I don't -
I just don't recall it, but it could have been a possibility.
Q And when did you ask Rick Rogers again to be on the panel?
A After going to Tom McGrath and telling him that I had a problem that Jack Cox was not going to participate and that's when he told me he said well let's get somebody from ANN RILEY & ASSOCIATES, LTD.
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I came back to -
I know it was Tom McGrath.
I'm not sure if Ben Easley was there or not, and Tom recommended Rick Rogers.
I think -
I believe he was temporarily assigned to Corporate at that point and time.
Q Un-hum.
A He recommended Rick and you know I had worked with Rick on several occasions.
Had a lot of respect for him so I thought that would be a fair way to handle it.
Q Who was the Assistant Plant Manager out at Watts Bar?
A Gosh, I can't remember his name.
MR. MARQUAND:
I believe it was Dennis Kohl.
THE INTERVIEWEE:
I believe that's right.
It was Dennis Kohl, K-o-h-l.
I never talked to him.
I talked to his secretary and she said he would not be available.
Q And so when did you notify or ask Rick -
so this was - when did you go to Tom McGrath and tell him about your problem?
A I don't know specifically but during that time frame I went to him and told him that --
Q And how much notice was Mr. Rogers given regarding his being on the Board?
A I know I sent a package to him so it had to be ANN RILEY & ASSOCIATES, LTD.
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I really don't know the answer to that.
Q A Board package like for him specifically?
A Yes, so he could read the resumes of all the people that were applying.
There were multi positions.
Several in -
two in Chemistry.
Two in RADCON.
One in RADWASTE and -
well RADWASTE and Environmental together.
Q Okay, but you don't recall when you spoke to him about that or when you sent the package?
A No.
Q How much time did he have?
A I'm sure he had enough time to read through those but I got those out before we had the meeting.
Q Okay, I guess what I'm trying to ascertain is maybe the specific time that you contacted him.
You're saying like -
the peer group meetings are once a month.
Is that correct?
A That's correct.
Q So your initial discussion about having these site RADCON Chem Managers being on the Board would have been a month prior to the actual interviews?
A Yeah, I do know I -
I remember talking to him on the phone.
He said well be sure I get a Board package because I want to be sure to read the resumes and be familiar with the people that we're interviewing.
Q But you don't recall how much time he had?
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No.
Q Do you recall having a conversation with Charles Kent prior to the screening panel indicating that - where Mr. Kent indicated that he didn't feel Jack Cox could be unbias if he was a panel member?
A That he could be unbiased?
Q Yeah, where Charles Kent said that he didn't think Jack Cox could be unbiased towards --
A I don't remember that.
The only thing I remember is you know Jack Cox saying this is the guy I would vote for.
Q But you don't remember Charles Kent ever saying Cox shouldn't be a Board member because he can't be unbiased?
A I can't honestly answer that because I don't recall.
Q And prior to the screening Board itself on that particular date do you recall ever telling Charles Kent that Mr. Fiser had filed a DOL complaint regarding the post of his Chemistry position?
A No.
Q You don't remember telling him that?
A No, Charles Kent said that.
Q Okay, Charles Kent told you?
A Yeah, he - we were in a group.
Another one of ANN RILEY & ASSOCIATES, LTD.
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We were standing there and I don't remember the exact words but Charles said something along the line of are you guys aware of Gary's DOL thing and I said that's improper for us to talk about and it ended it right there.
There was -
nothing else was said.
Q Did anyone ask you not to be a voting member of this screening panel because of his 1996 - this immediate complaint?
A I don't remember that but I was not -
I chose not to be a voting member.
I chose to -
I wrote the questions for the interviews and the Board selected so many -
I maybe wrote sixty questions or something.
I don't remember the number.
They picked the ones prior to the interviews the questions that we would ask everybody, and I know I was very specifically myself and I don't know if Human Resources recommended it or not but I did not want to be a voting member.
I would be the final decision.
If they selected someone I thought was really haywire then I had the right to intervene but that didn't take place.
Q Un-hum, okay, but you don't recall specifically anyone recommending to you that since there was an ongoing DOL complaint that you should not be a voting member?
A It is possible that Human -
I don't recall that ANN RILEY & ASSOCIATES, LTD.
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Q What about Charles Kent do you recall him saying that?
A I don't remember.
Q Was there any attempt to postpone these interviews so that Mr. Cox could be present?
A No, we were very concerned about getting it done and moving on so no, there was no -
I don't recall anybody saying why don't we just postpone it until next month.
Q Un-hum, and whose decision would that have been?
A That would have been my decision.
Q And that wasn't ever a consideration?
A No.
I thought we had an adequate - when we put Rick Rogers in there I felt very strongly we had an adequate review Board.
Q At one time Mr. Fiser fell under your supervision.
Is that correct?
A That sounds bad.
Fell under.
He reported to me, right.
Q Reported to you?
A Yeah, when I first came here - when he came down to Corporate from Sequoyah he reported to me as the Manager of Technical Programs. Then he reported to me again when we went through that last reorganization.
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Okay, so anytime were you responsible for writing any of his performance evaluations?
A Yes.
Q Were you -
did you ever change his evaluations and down grade them at anyone's request?
A No.
Q Did you ever tell him that you wanted to give him better evaluations but you were told not to?
A No, that never happened.
Q I'm not saying -
I was just asking you whether that happened?
A No.
Q At one point and I'm going to go back again -
jump back during the time frame of the 1993 DOL complaint.
There was an attempt to place Mr. Fiser out at Sequoyah.
Charles Kent was trying to fill a position at Sequoyah during 1993.
Do you recall that?
A That I know very little about that.
I knew that Charles was talking to Gary but that was about it.
Q Did Mr. Kent talk to you about this?
A I don't recall having any discussion about that.
It's possible.
Q Do you recall ever calling anyone such as Mr.
Bynum* in asking what their thoughts were on transferring?
A Yeah, I got a call from Mr. Fenick.
He was the -
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10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 61 I don't know whether he was a site VP or the Plant Manager at that point and time.
He asked me what I thought about Gary and I said well Gary had been - was a good primary.
Just like I said before he was a good primary Chemistry guy not - was pretty weak in the secondary Chemistry area and was not an extremely good manager because I had had problems with him in the Corporate position when he came down as a Corporate Chemistry Manager.
I passed that on to Fenick.
That's all I can tell you about that.
Q Did you ever talk to Mr. Bynum about this transfer?
A I don't remember doing that.
I think Mr. Fenick -
as I recall Mr. Fenick is the only one that asked the question.
Q He's the only one that asked you?
A Yes.
Q Okay, did you ever discuss -
did you ever call Mr.
Bynum or have a conversation with him wherein you indicated Charles Kent was trying to get Fiser down there -
transfer him down there?
A No, I don't recall that.
Q You don't recall any conversation like that with Mr. Bynum?
A No, the only thing I remember talking to him about was that I thought I had a solution to the situation that ANN RILEY & ASSOCIATES, LTD.
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He was the one that was going out to Sequoyah and if that was the case then I would have a vacant position.
Q For?
A For a Chemistry Manager -
for a Chemistry person.
Q And that solution was for what?
A Keeping Gary Fiser in that position.
Q And this was discussed with Mr. Bynum?
A I recall that.
I don't remember the details of the discussion but I remember making him aware of that.
Q Un-hum, and what was Mr. Bynum's response to that?
A Well very shortly after that I was told I did. not have a head count.
Q And who told you that?
A Gosh, I don't know.
I really don't know the answer.
Somebody from Human Resources or my boss.
Q And your boss at that time was?
A Help me out.
MR. MARQUAND:
Kiter.
THE INTERVIEWEE:
Kiter - Dan Kiter.
BY MS. BENSON:
Q Okay. Explain to me one more time what the purpose was in having the site RADCHEM or --
Chem Managers on the Board.
What was the purpose?
A Primary customer.
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Okay.
A They're the guys that the --
person when we go to the sites the normal requirement I have is you check in with the RADCON Chemistry Manager although you may work for the RADCON Manager.
When you get through you go back and inform him of what activities you're involved in.
Q Un-hum.
A And I also would ask each year from each one of the RADCON Managers their assessment of individuals.
Q Un-hum.
A In fact everybody in my department I would say well how does so and so perform.
How have they performed for you this year, this kind of thing so they had some input to the review process on an annual basis.
Q Un-hum, so basically it was you know because they were the customer and they were most knowledgeable about that person's what kind of service they had provided and what kind of expertise that person had?
A They had the big picture.
Q Un-hum.
A Compared to a more narrow --
form from another position.
Q Okay, and do you not consider or what are your thoughts by removing -
Cox not being present on that Board that his primary -
the customer that he served was not there ANN RILEY & ASSOCIATES, LTD.
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A It really didn't bother me because I felt we had three fine people on the Board and they were very fair people.
Q But if that was the purpose of having those people there and he wasn't there you know --
A I cannot control the schedules of another individual.
Q Un-hum.
A An individual -
if all three of them said they didn't want to be there I would have had to come up with another Board.
Q And I guess I'm just asking you you know what your thoughts are if that's what the purpose is of having those particular people there to present you know the different sites is that fair --
A Yes.
Q As far as representing all members that were applied for that?
A If you look at the evaluation you will see that all three of them came, ranked the people exactly the same.
Even the points were fairly close.
I was very surprised at that myself so I think it was very fair.
Q Did Mr. McGrath ever tell you that he wanted Harvey selected for that position?
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No.
Q Did Mr. McGrath ever indicate to you that he wanted Harvey's expertise in Chemistry at Corporate?
A No, not that I can recall. He thought Sam was a good Chemistry person.
In fact he was by far the best PWR Chemistry guy we had.
He just resigned just two weeks ago.
Q Did Mr. McGrath ever indicate to you that he wanted to get rid of Mr. Fiser?
A Absolutely not.
Q Regarding any of the information I've asked you about today, any of the questions would you be willing to take a polygraph examination?
A Absolutely.
MS. BENSON:
Maybe we can move it together with you in arrangements.
Today is the - because I know maybe that we're trying to work something else out at the same time.
Are there any questions you would like to ask at this time?
MR. MARQUAND:
Yeah, I do.
CROSS EXAMINATION BY MR. MARQUAND:
Q With respect to the subject about having RADCON Chemistry Managers on the Board because they were the primary customers of Corporate Chemistry?
A Right.
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Was there a purpose in considering the RADCON Chemistry Managers --
SRB because each of them was a proponent of a candidate?
A No.
Q Was the idea to have the selection review Board and these questions was it looking at past performance, or was it looking at technical competency?
A Technical competency.
Q Were any of the questions that were put to the candidates by the Board did they have anything to do with anything besides technical competency?
A There was maybe some Management questions but mostly technical --
Q Managerial competencies?
A That's correct.
Q Didn't have -
as far -
you know there was some discussion between you and Ms. Benson about whether or not previous service reviews were in the packages.
A Yeah, it's not uncommon but I just don't recall any being in there.
Q Well do you recall -
I mean you've seen the selection package and you've seen how -
or at least I assume you have you've seen the scoring of the candidates?
A Right.
Q Was any part of the scoring based upon past ANN RILEY & ASSOCIATES, LTD.
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A No.
Q Was it based in any way upon the experience that those individuals had had with those candidates?
A It was strictly a list of questions.
We graded those specific questions.
Q Based on the answers at the review?
A Based on the answers that we were provided.
Q With respect to the question about postponing the interviews so that Cox could participate were there other interviews going on before the Selection Review Board that same day besides the program manager for Chemistry?
A There were a number of interviews that day.
We spent all afternoon interviewing.
Q Other positions?
A Yes.
Q Like what other positions?
A RADCON positions, Environmental RADWASTE positions.
Q All right, and was there some importance to get the process completed?
A Yes, and another point of view I might throw in here it was not uncommon whenever we would have a RAflCON Chemistry peer group meeting some of these meetings lasted until 6:00 or 7:00 in the evening.
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10 11 12 13 14 1.5 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 It was normal for Jack not to attend after 1:00.
Again, I can't relate to you what his reasons were but quite often he would be - he was normally the first one to leave.
He would normally leave fairly early so to try to reschedule could have been very difficult.
Q You could have had the same problem?
A That's right.
MR. MARQUAND:
I don't have anything else.
That's all the questions I've got.
MS. BENSON:
Okay.
REDIRECT EXAMINATION BY MS. BENSON:
Q Okay, the only thing I wanted to clarify with you just at this time when this reorganization was going on was and there was attempt by --
A The new one, the recent one?
Q Yeah, '96 and there was an attempt by Charles Kent and Gordon Rich from Sequoyah to get Harvey transferred out to Sequoyah.
I mean it's obviously -
I mean it would seem -
appear obvious that they were in support of Harvey if they wanted him out there at their site?
A Yes, they did.
Q And later a conversation with Mr. McGrath where you indicated Mr. McGrath felt that Cox couldn't be unbiased on the Board because he was in support of Fiser.
Do you see ANN RILEY & ASSOCIATES, LTD.
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A No, because I didn't say that he was biased.
I just told the direct statement that he made.
That was whatever Tom's conclusion was from that.
I just told him he made the comment.
Q Okay, but the comment was that Cox was in support of Fiser?
A His comment specifically was, I don't need to be on the Board.
You guys know where I stand.
I would support Gary Fiser.
Q Okay.
Do you see a difference between that and there being a bias and unbias and you know the attempts by Charles Kent to get Harvey transferred out there?
Isn't he showing a bias there also?
A Well Brown's Ferry would like to have Chandra full time and so Watts Bar would probably have liked to had Gary Fiser full time.
Q Un-hum, but is that a reason not to have Cox on the Board though just because he made a statement like that?
A I would not make that determination -
that was a Human Resources decision from my standpoint.
I would not make that decision.
Q What was the Human Resources decision?
A I went to my boss and I said this comment was made by Gary Fiser which is my responsibility to do that.
That's lANN RILEY & ASSOCIATES, LTD.
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Q So that was Mr. McGrath's --
A Yes.
Q Comment?
A Yeah.
Q Okay.
A I know Human Resources was involved and they supported his position from what I recall.
Q Who at Human Resources --
A From Ben Easley again. Normally the guy we were doing with.
I can't say that as a fact but Human Resources was involved.
There's a guy that -Ben reports to that quite often got involved in some of these discussions.
Q Okay, but you're not sure about that but you're -
what you're saying is that he made the comment well then that disqualifies him from the Board?
A I didn't make that decision.
Q Okay, but you're saying he made that comment?
A Yes.
Q Okay.
Now another thing that came up during a conversation that you had with Mr. McGrath was that you all were attempting to eliminate anybody from the Board that had any past knowledge of Fiser's past DOL complaint?
A I do not remember that ever happening.
I don't ANN RILEY & ASSOCIATES, LTD.
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<\\~215 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 71 recall sitting down with Tom and saying well let's make sure I just thought we would have a good fair Board.
- People, professionals and could do their job.
I don't - it could have happened but I don't remember having a discussion with Tom to say let's make sure we don't have anybody on there that's knowledgeable -
on the Board that's knowledgeable of this DOL.
I wasn't aware of it enough.
I didn't know enough about it.
Q You were aware of it?
A Was aware is probably the right word.
Q I'm just asking you whether that discussion took place with Mr. McGrath --
A I do not recall that.
Q As far as you getting together with Human Resources to see whether any of the Board members, panel members, had been involved in his prior DOL complaint -
complaint or complaints?
A I do not recall that.
Q You don't recall that conversation?
A No, no.
Q With Mr. McGrath?
A No.
Q Okay.
It's possible that conversation took place.
You just don't recall it?
A It could have, yeah.
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Okay.
MR. MARQUAND:
Let me ask you some more.
RECROSS EXAMINATION BY MR. MARQUAND:
Q With respect to Mr. Kent indicating a desire to move Sam Harvey to Sequoyah and that obviously showed that he had some respect for Mr. Harvey's abilities?
A Yes.
Q When you discussed with these gentlemen the fact that they were going to be on the Selection Review Board or you wanted them to be on the Selection Review Board did Mr.
Kent ever indicate to you that he could not or would not put his personal opinions about Sam Harvey aside when he sat as a member on the Selection Review Board?
A I said that at the beginning of the Board.
I said what you need to do is listen to the questions.
Listen to the answers and don't have any other considerations as you hear these people speak so at that point I know that took place.
I don't remember anything specific with Charles.
Q Well did he ever tell you he couldn't set aside his personal opinions?
A No, no, he did not.
BY MS. BENSON:
Q Do you have any questions today yourself?
A No.
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Or any comments that you would like to add?
A No.
Anything I would say would be -
I just don't understand what's going on here.
It seemed so obvious to me that everything that could possibly be done and done right was done.
I look at this kind of thing and I say how in the world did we get ourselves -
I mean any individual has a right if something has been done wrong to seek you know clarifying whatever situation is.
In this situation we can go back and you can look at second guessing and all those kind of things.
It's just beyond me if we can have a case like this it's like me looking at you and saying you committed a robbery out at Hamilton Mall.
Okay, and then somebody says well did you see her do it.
No, I didn't see her but I have the feeling that she did that.
.Q Un-hum.
A And I look at this and I say how in the world -
we have hundreds of cases like this come up that are foolish.
You know and I'm not saying - Gary was a good man.
I respected Gary and Gary did a good job when he was here but when it comes down to the point where you've got to pick two out of three somebody is not going to have a job.
Now if everybody in the Company decides if I don't get the job I can now go try to get relief then gosh, we ANN RILEY & ASSOCIATES, LTD.
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Q Okay.
I appreciate what you've said.
MS. BENSON: Do you have anything else, Mr.
74 Marquand?
MR. MARQUAND:
No.
MS. BENSON:
I don't think I have anything further.
I appreciate your time.
I know it was a long interview.
I will get with Mr. Marguand regarding a polygraph.
There are a couple of questions.
THE INTERVIEWEE:
Okay.
Does this mean that a number of people are going to be polygraphed, or is it just me in particular?
MS. BENSON:
Well --
THE INTERVIEWEE:
I don't mind doing it at all but MS. BENSON:
The decision makers --
THE INTERVIEWEE:
You've got some too, okay.
MS. BENSON:
No, no, I mean - well we would look at the decision makers.
THE INTERVIEWEE:
Yeah, that would be fine with me.
MS. BENSON:
Okay, I appreciate that.
I know it's been a long interview.
I know you were probably wishing it was a little shorter but if there's nothing more that Mr.
Marquand has I'd like to close it out by asking you if all ANN RILEY & ASSOCIATES, LTD.
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15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 the information you've provided today was provided voluntarily and without threat by any employee of the NRC?
THE INTERVIEWEE:
Everything was -
I answered the best, as honestly that I could.
MS. BENSON:
Okay, I appreciate it.
Thank you.
The time now is 12:11 p.m..
[Whereupon, at 12:11 p.m., the interview was concluded.)
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UNITED STATES NUCLEAR REGULATORY COMMISSION REPORTER' S CERTIFICATE I,
J.B.
SHELTON, reporter, hereby certify that the foregoing transcript consisting of pages is a complete, true, and accurate transcript of the testimony indicated, held on April 20, 1999 in Chattanooga, Tennessee in the Matter of the interview of WILSON COOPER McARTHUR.
I further certify that this proceeding was recorded by me, and the foregoing transcript has been prepared under my direction.
Date: APRIL 23, 1999 Official Reporter ANN RILEY C ASSOCIATES, LTD SUITE 1014 1025 CONNECTICUT AVENUE, N.W.
WASHINGTON, D.C. 20036 Ann Riley & Associates, Ltd Washington, D.C. 20036