ML022590208
| ML022590208 | |
| Person / Time | |
|---|---|
| Site: | Browns Ferry, Watts Bar, Sequoyah  |
| Issue date: | 09/11/2002 |
| From: | Robert Davis Neal R. Gross & Co. |
| To: | Office of Nuclear Reactor Regulation |
| Byrdsong A T | |
| Shared Package | |
| ML022590224 | List: |
| References | |
| +adjud/ruledam200506, 50-259-CIVP, 50-260-CIVP, 50-296-CIVP, 50-327-CIVP, 50-328-CIVP, 50-390-CIVP, ASLBP 01-791-01-CIVP, EA-99-234, NRC-521, RAS 4845 | |
| Download: ML022590208 (124) | |
Text
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"R A 5 48q6-Official Transcript of Proceedings NUCLEAR REGULATORY COMMISSION
Title:
Tennessee Valley Authority DOCKETED USNRC September 12, 2002 (10:41AM)
Docket Number:
Location:
Date:
OFFICE OF SECRETARY RULEMAKINGS AND ADJUDICATIONS STAFF 50-390-CivP et al.
Rockville, Maryland Wednesday, September 11, 2002 Work Order No.:
NRC-521 Pages 5157-5387 NEAL R. GROSS AND CO., INC.
Court Reporters and Transcribers 1323 Rhode Island Avenue, N.W.
Washington, D.C. 20005 (202) 234-4433 Iemp Ict_ =5 sc y-c3s
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10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 UNITED STATES OF AMERICA NUCLEAR REGULATORY COMMISSION ATOMIC SAFETY AND LICENSING BOARD TENNESSEE VALLEY AUTHORITY (Watts Bar Nuclear Plant, Unit 1, Sequoyah Nuclear Plant, Units 1&2, Browns Ferry Nuclear Plant, Units 1, 2, & 3
) Docket Nos. 50-390-CivP
) 50-327-CivP 50-328-CivP
) 50-259-CivP 50-260-Civ.P
) 50-296-Civ.P
) ASLBP No. 01-791-01-CivP
) EA 99-234
)
)
Nuclear Regulatory Commission Two White Flint North 11545 Rockville Pike Rockville, Maryland Wednesday, September 11, 2002 The above-entitled matter came on for hearing, pursuant to notice, at 9:00 a.m.
BEFORE:
CHARLES BECHHOEFER, Chairman ANN MARSHALL YOUNG, Administrative Judge RICHARD F. COLE, Administrative Judge NEAL R. GROSS' COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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APPEARANCES OF COUNSEL:
2 On Behalf of the Nuclear Regulatory Commission:
3 DENNIS C. DAMBLY, Attorney 4
JENNIFER M. EUCHNER, Attorney 5
Office of the General Counsel 6
U.S. Nuclear Regulatory Commission 7
Washington, D.C.
20555 8
-and-9 NICHOLAS HILTON, Enforcement Specialist 10 Office of Enforcement 11 U.S. Nuclear Regulatory Commission 12 Washington, D.C.
20555 13 14 On Behalf of the Tennessee Vallev Authority:
15 BRENT R. MARQUAND, Attorney 16 JOHN E. SLATER, Attorney 17 Tennessee Valley Authority 18 400 West Summit Hill Drive 19 Knoxville, Tennessee 37902-1499 20 21 22 23 24 25 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 2 0 2 1 22 23 24 25 WITNESS Heyward R. Rogers Tom McGrath H. Keith Fogleman EXHIBIT NO.
TVA 125 Supervisor's-142 H. Keith Foc 144 Heyward Rog4 Staff 115 Rogers Depot, 147 Motion for.
148 Order Denyii Summary Judc 5'.
I-N-D-E-X DIRECT CROSS REDIRECT RECROSS 5162 5202 5253 5261 5309 5351 5350 5353 159 E-X-H-I-B-I-T-S DESCRI PTION IDENT REC'D 3 Handbook aleman's Resume ars' Resume 5377 5356 5164 5379 5357 5164 5238 5335 5335 3 it ion Dummary Decision aig Motion for 3ment 5211 5335 5335 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE.. N.W.
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P-R-O-C-E-E-D-I-N-G-S 2
(9:08 a.m.)
3 CHAIRMAN BECHHOEFER: Good morning, ladies 4
and gentlemen.
5 MR. MARQUAND:
Good morning.
6 CHAIRMAN BECHHOEFER:
Today, as I'm sure 7
you know, is September 11th, 2002, which is one year 8
after the events of September 11 last year.
Along 9
with the Commission Chairman, who did this 15 minutes 10 ago, I ask everybody here to observe a moment of 11 silence to honor the victims of the attacks of last 12 year.
13 (A few moments of silence in honor of the 14 victims of the September 11, 2001 attacks on the 15 United States.)
16 CHAIRMAN BECHHOEFER:
Thank you.
17 This morning there is heightened security 18 in this building, and all non-NRC employees have to be 19 escorted everywhere they go in the building.
So 20 anyone, when they leave the courtroom, this is the TVA 21 people at least, they will have to be escorted 22 anywhere they go.
23 JUDGE YOUNG: Including to the cafeteria.
24 CHAIRMAN BECHHOEFER:
Including even to 25 the bathroom, not in the stalls, but --
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(Laughter.)
2 MS. EUCHNER:
Thank goodness.
3 CHAIRMAN BECHHOEFER:
Anyhow, there will 4
be someone around to escort TVA people.
5 We have received from the court reporter 6
a bunch of exhibits from Chattanooga that were 7
entered, used in Chattanooga.
We haven't examined 8
what we got --
9 JUDGE YOUNG:
Just today?
10 CHAIRMAN BECHHOEFER:
Just five minutes 11 ago.
These include the CDs that we couldn't find the 12 extra copies of and which the staff actually handed to 13 the reporter.
14 These are not sorted, however, nor are 15 they stamped.
These are the ones that we were having 16 the most problems with.
17 JUDGE YOUNG:
Is there a date? Are they 18 all from one day?
19 CHAIRMAN BECHHOEFER:
Well, this lists a 20 day.
21 JUDGE COLE: This is copies of 168 and 169 22 of the Staff Exhibits.
23 CHAIRMAN BECHHOEFER:
This lists May 2, 24 but I don't know if they're all from May 2 or not.
25 Anyway, we inquired about these earlier, NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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and the reporter didn't have any knowledge of any 2
exhibits, but, lo and behold, they found some.
3 JUDGE YOUNG: But we have different court 4
reporters.
5 CHAIRMAN BECHHOEFER:
Right, right.
6 MR. DAMBLY:
I'm sure those CDs made 7
interesting drive-time in a car radio.
8 (Laughter.)
9 CHAIRMAN BECHHOEFER: Before we begin this 10 morning, are there preliminary matters that any party 11 wishes to raise?
12 MR. DAMBLY:
None for the staff.
13 MR. MARQUAND:
None for TVA.
14 CHAIRMAN BECHHOEFER:
Okay. Mr. Marquand 15 or Slater, as the case may be?
16 MR. SLATER:
We call Rick Rogers.
17 MR. ROGERS:
Good morning.
18 CHAIRMAN BECHHOEFER:
Good morning.
19 WHEREUPON, 20 HEYWARD R. ROGERS 21 was called as a witness by Counsel for the Authority, 22 and having been first duly sworn, was examined and 23 testified as follows:
24 CHAIRMAN BECHHOEFER:
Thank you.
25 DIRECT EXAMINATION NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 BY MR. SLATER:
Q Mr. Rogers, could you state your full name for the record, please?
A My name is Heyward R. Rogers.
Q And where are you employed, Mr. Rogers?
A Employed at TVA.
Q Could you tell us when did you first become employed at TVA?
A In October of 1978.
Q What is your current position?
A I'm the Design Manager for Engineering at Sequoyah Nuclear Plant.
Q When did you become the Design Engineering Manager?
A Q
different A
Q A
from the Q
asked to A
Q In May of 2001.
Between 1978 and today, have you held any positions?
Yes, a number of positions.
What is your educational background, sir?
I have a mechanical engineering degree University of Tennessee at Chattanooga.
Now prior to coming here today, were you put together a resume?
That's correct.
Did you do that?
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10 11 12 13 14 i5 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 2 3 24 25 A
Yes, I did.
MR. SLATER: Your Honors, I would like to show the witness TVA Exhibit 144.
[Whereupon, the above-referred-to document was marked as TVA E x h i b i t 1 4 4 f o r identification.]
Q Exhibit A
Q position position A
Q backgrou BY MR. SLATER:
Mr. Rogers, could you tell us what TVA 144 is?
This is my resume that I provided you.
And does it reflect the positions, all'the Is that you've held, at least most of the s you've held between 1978 and today?
Yes.
Does it also reflect your educational nd?
A Yes.
MR. SLATER:
Your Honors, at this time I move that Defendant's 144 be admitted.
CHAIRMAN BECHHOEFER:
Any objection?
MS. EUCHNER:
No objection.
CHAIRMAN BECHHOEFER: TVA Exhibit 144 will be admitted.
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to document marked as TVA 2
Exhibit 144 for identification 3
was received in evidence.]
4 BY MR. SLATER:
5 Q
Mr. Rogers, turning your attention to the 6
June-July timeframe of 1996, were you asked to sit on 7
a selection review board for some selections 8
concerning Chemistry Program Manager and some other 9
positions?
10 A
Yes, I was.
11 Q
Could you tell the Board how you were --
12 tell us how you became a member of the board.
13 A
Wilson McArthur was a peer of mine. I was 14 working in Chattanooga at the time as a Technical 15 Support Manager. He asked me to sit in on a selection 16 review board for him, and I agreed to do so.
17 Q
To add some context to that, how much time 18 were you given between the time of the request from 19 Mr. McArthur and the time that you actually sat on the 20 Board and had the interviews?
21 A
It was a couple of days.
22 Q
Was it just for one particular position 23 that you were asked to sit on the selection review 24 board?
25 A
No, Dr.
McArthur had a
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positions. We were in the process of reorganizing our 2
corporate offices, and my Department as well as his 3
Department was going through a reorganization. He had 4
several positions, five or six positions, to fill, and 5
he asked that I serve on the selection review board 6
for all those positions.
Those positions included 7
Chemistry, Environmental, Rad Chemistry or Rad Con.
8 Those are the major ones that I recall.
9 CHAIRMAN BECHHOEFER: Were the boards the 10 same for all of those?
11 MR. ROGERS:
The same personnel on the 12 selection boards.
13 CHAIRMAN BECHHOEFER:
I mean each board.
14 MR. ROGERS:
Yes, sir.
15 CHAIRMAN BECHHOEFER:
Thank you.
16 BY MR. SLATER:
17 Q
In 1996, when you were asked by Dr.
18 McArthur to sit on the review board, what was your 19 position at that particular time?
20 A
At that time I was the Maintenance Support 21 Manager.
My group that I was in, and I went to 22 corporate in '95, I was the Technical Support Manager.
23 In '96, we reorganized.
My group was RIFed.
I 24 reapplied on a job and I was selected as the 25 Maintenance Support Manager.
So at the time of the NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N W.
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selection I believe I was the Maintenance Support 2
Manager.
3 Q
I have sitting in front of you Joint 4
Exhibit 20.
It's in Volume 3 of the Joint Exhibits.
5 And if you would, turn to page 1. If you look to the 6
bottom, it's "GG", a number of zeroes, and 111.11 Do 7
you see that?
8 A
Yes, I do.
9 Q
On that first page there is a listing of 10 positions.
Do you see that?
11 A
Yes.
12 Q
Are those positions the positions that you 13 were asked to sit on the SRB to evaluate the 14 interviews of the candidates?
15 A
Yes, those look like the right positions.
16 Q
And there are five positions there, is 17 that correct?
18 A
That's correct.
19 Q
It's the Chemistry Program Manager BWR, 20 Chemistry Program Manager PWR, the Rad Con -
21 Programmatic, Rad Con Technical Support, and Rad 22 Waste/Environmental Protection, is that correct?
23 A
That's correct.
24 Q
There has been some suggestion during this 25 hearing that you may not have been the proper person NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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to sit on the selection review board, and I want to 2
ask you some questions about your qualifications to 3
evaluate the candidates for these positions.-
4 Let's start with the Chemistry PWR 5
position.
Could you explain to the Board why or how 6
you were qualified to sit on the SRB and to fairly 7
evaluate the candidates who appeared as interviewees?
8 A
Okay, I have 24 years of power plant 9
experience at Sequoyah and Watts Bar for TVA, and I 10 also hold a Shift Technical Advisor Certification and 11 a Senior Reactor Operator Certification.
In addition 12 to that, of course, my college background included 13 chemistry, but as part of the SRO and STA 14 certifications there were chemistry courses as part of 15 those, educational courses.
16 JUDGE YOUNG:
Excuse me.
17 MR. ROGERS:
Yes.
18 JUDGE YOUNG:
"SRO" and "S" --
19 MR. ROGERS:
Shift Technical Advisor is 20 the STA and SRO is the Senior Reactor Operator.
21 JUDGE YOUNG:
Thank you.
22 MR. ROGERS:
Okay.
23 In addition to that, I also worked closely 24 with our Steam Generator Group at different times in 25 my career, and as part of that group, chemistry, an NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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understanding of chemistry was important to assure the 2
integrity of steam generators for PWR or Pressurized 3
Water Reactors.
4 BY MR. SLATER:
5 Q
Could you tell us, when did you work 6
closely with the chemistry folks?
7 A
In various groups.
I worked with 8
chemistry as part of my work when I was in compliance, 9
which was, looking at the resume here, in the '81 to 10
'86 timeframe, as an Instrument Engineer. My position 11 there required me to prepare licensee event reports, 12 root cause analysis evaluations, which included 13 aspects of the plant that touched chemistry and 14 obviously other portions of the plant.
15 Q
Could you tell us how your SRO 16 certification aided in the qualifications to sit on 17 the SRB to evaluate the PWR position?
18 A
SRO certification included courses in 19 chemistry as well as part of the position's 20 responsibility was to interface with chemistry for the 21 Shift Manager or the Shift Engineer, depending on what 22 time of the course that we were in, where TVA today 23 they're called Shift Managers, and discussions with 24 chemistry was a daily portion of that job to 25 understand where the plant was for primary and NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N W.
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secondary site of chemistry and to ensure that we were 2
in specifications for those parameters, and consulting 3
with the Shift Manager and make recommendations for 4
any changes with chemistry.
5 Q
And could you tell us how your STA 6
certification aided in making you qualified to sit on 7
the SRB?
8 A
Those requirements for the Shift Technical 9
Advisor were similar to the SRO requirements; 10 responsibilities were held concurrently.
11 Q
Prior to the meeting of the SRB, were you 12 handed some materials? Were you given some materials 13 to help in evaluating or that you used during the 14 interview process?
15 A
At the time of the selection review board, 16 when I got to the room for the selection review board, 17 we were handed a notebook with different information 18 concerning the positions that were to be interviewed 19 for that day.
20 Q
Could you tell us what kinds of 21 information or what information was in the notebook?
22 A
If I may refer back to my --
23 Q
Sure.
24 A
book here, if I may?
It was VPAs, or 25 the Vacancy Position Announcements, as part of this NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N W.
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notebook, and the Candidates' Vacancy Position Form, 2
which was a TVA-9824 form.
3 Q
Is that the application?
4 A
That's the application form.
There were 5
questions for each of the positions.
There was a 6
blank sheet for grading to the questions for each of 7
the individuals.
8 Q
Now we just talked briefly about your 9
qualifications to evaluate the candidates for the PWR 10 position, PWR chemistry position.
Were you also, in 11 your
- opinion, qualified to sit and judge the 12 interviews in the other positions that are set forth 13 on page 1 of Joint Exhibit 20?
14 A
Yes. These positions are Program Manager 15 positions.
They serve really two roles.
They were 16 positions that interfaced with our three sites, Watts 17 Bar, Sequoyah, and Browns Ferry in the respective 18
- areas, such as Rad Con and Environmental and 19 Chemistry.
They interfaced with the managers and 20 technical people at those sites.
21 I had a number of years as an engineer at 22 the sites as well as manager experience, and then 23 also, again, my SRO/STA background of providing the 24 interface with each of these areas, including Rad Con 25 and Environmental groups as well as the Chemistry NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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- groups, 2
Q Who else sat on the SRB with you?
3 A
Charles Kent, who is the Rad Chem Manager 4
for Sequoyah; James (sic) Corey, Rad Chem Manager for 5
Browns Ferry, and myself. Dr. McArthur was there, who 6
was the selecting manager, but did not participate in 7
the questioning of candidates, and there was also a 8
Human Resource Manager there.
9 Q
Is that Milissa Westbrook?
10 A
That's correct.
11 CHAIRMAN BECHHOEFER:
The three people 12 were the only people on the board that you mentioned:
13 Mr. Kent, Mr. Corey, and yourself?
14 MR. ROGERS:
That's correct.
15 BY MR. SLATER:
16 Q
Prior to the start of the interviews, did 17 you have any conversations with Kent or Corey about 18 how to evaluate the candidates as they responded to 19 the interview questions?
20 A
No, I did not.
21 Q
Did anyone suggest to you how to evaluate 22 the candidates?
23 A
No one did.
24 Q
Could you tell us what your method --
the 25 method you used to evaluate the candidates?
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A Yes.
Each of the candidates had to 2
respond to a certain number of questions, and I graded 3
the candidates based on their technical responses to 4
the questions as well as their demeanor, if you would, 5
through projecting themselves in the question.
6 These positions were positions that had to 7
interface with a number of people on the site, 8
managers, from plant managers down to the engineers or 9
worker levels.
So, in addition to the technical 10 understanding of the issues, I felt that they also 11 needed to understand how to conduct themselves and 12 present themselves to management. So I graded them in 13 both categories.
14 Q
Prior to interviewing any of the 15 candidates, did anyone give you any input with respect 16 to the past experience, past work history, of any of 17 the candidates?
18 A
No.
19 Q
Did you review any past history or past 20 work experience of any of the candidates?
21 A
No.
We just got the book that day as we 22 walked into the room for the selection review board.
23 Q
Now at some point in time you and the 24 other board members agreed upon a number of questions 25 that would be asked during the interview, is that NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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correct?
2 A
That's correct.
3 Q
If you will turn over to page 42 --
4 A
Okay, I'm there.
5 Q
On pages 42 and 43, is that the list of 6
the questions?
7 A
Yes, these are the questions that were 8
asked for the PWR Program Manager.
9 Q
Okay.
There are some questions that are 10 circled on both pages. What's the significance of the 11 circling?
12 A
Circling identifies the questions that 13 were to be asked.
The selecting manager, Dr. Wilson 14 (sic), put together a series of 16 questions, and 15 prior to the interviews being taken, the selection 16 review board picked out the questions that we were 17 going to ask.
18 We didn't have time, nor saw the need, to 19 ask all 16 questions, but we chose the ones that we 20 thought were pertinent to the jobs, and we also added 21 one additional question, which was Item No. 17. So we 22 chose questions one, two, seven, nine, eleven, twelve, 23 fifteen, sixteen, and, again, as I said, we added 24 question seventeen. That question dealt with defining 25 molar ratio.
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Q Who suggested adding question seventeen?
2 A
I do not recall specifically who.
3 Q
Was there a consensus of the board members 4
that the question --
5 A
The team agreed that that was an 6
appropriate question for the particular position.
I 7
do not know who suggested the question.
8 Q
Now to the right of the circled questions 9
there are some initials.
10 A
Yes, those initials represent -- that's in 11 my handwriting, and those represent the individual who 12 was going to ask that specific question.
For 13 instance, questions one, two, and seven have "HRR" 14 beside it, and those are my initials.
Then question 15
- nine, eleven, and twelve have
'CK,"
and that 16 represented Charles Kent, and then fifteen, sixteen, 17 and seventeen had '1JC," and that represented James 18 (sic) Corey.
19 Q
Now as to the candidates who were the PWR 20 Chemistry Program Manager position, prior to you 21 sitting on the SRB did you know Gary Fiser?
22 A
Yes, I knew Gary Fiser.
23 Q
Could you tell us how you knew Gary Fiser 24 prior to sitting on the SRB?
25 A
Gary was the Chemistry Manager at Sequoyah NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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in the early nineties, if I recall correctly.
I was 2
the Acting Technical Support Manager, and he was 3
Chemistry Manager, and we periodically interfaced.
4 Q
What about Sam Harvey?
5 A
I knew who Sam was.
I had some interface 6
with him.
He worked out of corporate, and he 7
occasionally came to the sites to assist the Chemistry 8
group.
9 Q
What about Chandra?
10 A
Chandra was a BWR person who worked with 11 mainly Browns Ferry.
I knew who he was, but did not 12 have a great deal of interface prior to this 13 particular time.
In my short period at corporate, I 14 had a little bit m6re interface with him, but prior to 15 that time I had very little interface.
16 Q
And prior to the interviews and prior to 17 you scoring the candidates, were you aware of any 18 protected activity of Gary Fiser?
19 A
No, I was not.
20 Q
Were you aware of any safety concern that 21 he might have raised?
22 A
No.
23 Q
Were you aware or did you know.of Mr.
24 Fiser's 1993 DOL complaint?
25 A
No.
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JUDGE YOUNG: Did you hear any references 2
to any complaint or anything like that in the 3
discussion before you started?
4 MR. ROGERS:
There were no references to 5
any of those type of things in the discussion of the 6
selection review board.
7 JUDGE YOUNG:
I mean before you actually 8
started, out in the hallway or anything like that?
9 MR. ROGERS:
No.
10 CHAIRMAN BECHHOEFER:
Was there any 11 reference to a 1996 DOL --
12 MR. ROGERS:
No.
13 CHAIRMAN BECHHOEFER:
complaint that 14 Mr. Fiser had filed?
15 MR. ROGERS:
No, sir.
16 BY MR. SLATER:
17 Q
Could you tell us, when did this board 18 meet?
I mean not when, but time of day.
19 A
Time of day, if I recall, was in the 20 afternoon.
It was after lunch, one or two o'clock 21 timeframe, and we met up until about 6:00 or so that 22 evening, going through the processes.
23 Q
Were the other members already there when 24 you got there?
25 A
Yes, they were.
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Q Do you know why they were already there?
2 A
It appeared that they had been in what we 3
call a peer team meeting, and I came at the designated 4
time and they were already there in the room.
So I 5
just joined them at that point in time.
6 Q
So I take it that you're not a member of 7
the peer team?
You weren't?
8 A
No, I'm not. This was a Rad Con Chemistry 9
Manager peer team that basically includes the 10 representatives, the managers of those departments at 11 each of the three sites, plus the Corporate Manager, 12 and that would be Wilson McArthur.
13 Q
Now I believe you said that there were two 14 other people present during the interviews, Ms.
15 Westbrook and Dr. McArthur?
16 A
That's correct.
17 Q
Did Dr. McArthur participate in any way in 18 the questioning of any of the interviewees?
19 A
No, he did not ask any questions.
20 Q
Did he participate at all with respect to 21 any aspect of the interview process while you were 22 there?
23 A
Not during the interview process.
Prior 24 to the process, he did give us books and told us that 25 these were the positions that he had to fill, and that NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE, N W.
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these were the questions, and the selection review 2
board picked out the questions, the ones I mentioned 3
that were circled, and from there Dr. McArthur 4
listened.
5 JUDGE YOUNG:
I'm sorry, from there, Dr.
6 McArthur what?
7 MR. ROGERS:
Listened.
8 JUDGE YOUNG:
Listened?
9 BY MR. SLATER:
10 Q
Now we just talked about the circled 11 questions.
I believe you said that you and the other 12 board members decided to cull the list down to nine?
13 A
That's correct.
14 Q
In your opinion, was this list of nine 15 questions a fair way to evaluate the candidates for 16 the PWR Chemistry position?
17 A
Yes, these questions had both questions 18 that were directed at the individual's managerial 19 experience as well as his ability to address technical 20 questions and where he felt his strengths and 21 weaknesses were.
22 Q
Would you point out to the Board which 23 questions you considered went to the candidate's 24 managerial experience and which ones would point to 25 the technical ability or abilities of the candidates?
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A Questions one, two, and seven were, quote, 2
"managerial."
And let's see, number nine, and 3
question sixteen.
The technical questions were more 4
from questions eleven, twelve, fifteen, and seventeen.
5 Q
Why did the board believe that questions 6
twelve and seventeen were important to ask during 7
these interviews?
8 A
Twelve and seventeen --
9 MS. EUCHNER: Objection, Your Honors. Mr.
10 Slater can ask the witness why he believes the 11 questions were important, but I don't think Mr. Rogers 12 can testify as to what Mr. Kent and Mr. Corey were 13 thinking.
14 MR. SLATER:
Your Honor, I --
15 MS. EUCHNER: He should limit the question 16 to what Mr. Rogers thought.
17 MR. SLATER:
Your Honor, I believe they 18 met and they came to a consensus as to which questions 19 should be asked.
20 JUDGE YOUNG: Why don't you rephrase your 21 question in terms of what was said by the others that 22 would have led him to --
23 BY MR. SLATER:
24 Q
Were there any discussions concerning 25 questions --
among the board members --
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questions twelve and seventeen?
2 A
Questions twelve and seventeen were 3
questions directed at secondary site chemistry for the 4
plant.
The reason we chose those questions was 5
because secondary site chemistry was important to the 6
integrity of our steam generator tubes.
7 Denting, of course, is an industry-known 8
phenomenon where you get impurities built up between 9
the tube sheets or the tube support plates and the 10 steam generator tubes, and the impurities cause a 11 stress corrosion on the tubes.
Basically, that's 12 called "denting."
You put a stress on the tubes, and 13 if you had a flaw existing, pre-existing flaw, you 14 could actually have a tube burst or a tube leak there.
15 Of course, molar ratio control was also 16 important to us because that's one of the methods that 17 we use to control the chemistry of our secondary site 18 steam-generated water to ensure that we minimize the 19 effects of, I guess, crevice impurity build-up.
20 JUDGE YOUNG:
Are you now talking about 21 your own opinions or was there a discussion among the 22 three of you about why to select those questions?
23 MR. ROGERS: This is my opinion as well as 24 the opinion of the selection review board.
We did 25 discuss --
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2 3
4 5
6 7
8 9
10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 5182 JUDGE YOUNG: And you base your conclusion that it was the opinion of the board on what?
MR. ROGERS:
We agreed that denting was important, discussed that denting was important to secondary site chemistry at a PWR, as well as molar ratio control.
Q interviewed' BY MR. SLATER:
Who was the first candidate to be A
I believe Mr. Fiser was, based on looking at page GG00036.
This is the order of the interview schedule.
Q Could you tell the Board what was your impression of Mr. Fiser's interview?
A I'll refer back to my notes --
Q Okay.
A
-- my book here, if I may.
Some of the general comments, the overall comments that I had made on this particular individual's responses was that he was not technically clear on addressing the issues, and I had mentioned chemistry index and denting.
I had also noted his communication, that Mr. Fiser was rather long-winded and not to the point responding to questions and that he seemed much more NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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- relaxed, to the point of uninterested at the 2
interview, and I was surprised at that really.
3 Q
Why were you surprised at that?
4 A
As I said earlier, I had worked with Gary 5
at Sequoyah, and Gary --
I considered Gary a very 6
effective manager in chemistry.
I thought he did a 7
good job while he was there. My discussions with Gary 8
in chemistry matters, Gary seemed a very technically-9 competent individual.
10 Q
And if you would turn over to page 44, 11 tell us what that page is.
12 A
That page represents the ratings that I 13 gave Fiser on the questions that were identified 14 earlier.
15 Q
Could you tell us what your ratings --
16 well, first of all, what was the rating scale?
17 A
The rating scale was from one to ten, ten 18 being the highest, and then we rated each individual, 19 I rated each individual on each of the questions that 20 were asked.
Individuals answered the question, and 21 then, once the interview was over, we graded, I graded 22 the questions.
23 Q
After you graded the questions, did you 24 have any discussions with the other members as to what 25 your rating was?
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A No.
I don't recall that.
2 Q
Did anyone try to influence what your 3
rating should be?
4 A
No.
I graded my own questions then, and S
the other board members graded their own questions, 6
and there was no collusion between any of us on the 7
questions.
8 Q
Could you just for us read into the record 9
what your rating or ratings were for each of the 10 questions for Mr. Fiser?
11 A
Question one I rated a five. Question two 12 I rated a five.
13 JUDGE YOUNG:
For me, it might be helpful 14 if, as you do that --
I see that you've written notes 15 by each of the questions on pages 42 and 43, and I 16 can't read all those.
Since they're being presented 17 to us, perhaps you could read what you've written by 18 each one, as you tell the score?
19 MR.
ROGERS:
I'll attempt to read my own 20 writing.
It's been a while, but I believe I can do 21 that.
22 Question one dealt with strengths of the 23 individual, and I had made a note that the strength 24 was people skills to get things done.
I rated that 25 question a five.
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JUDGE YOUNG:
What is that up at the very 2
top of the page?
3 MR. ROGERS:
That is a note I had made 4
when he had answered a question.
I believe it must 5
have been number nine, that "escalate, must go to Rad 6
Chem Manager and his boss."
7 JUDGE YOUNG:
"Escalate"?
8 MR. ROGERS:
"Escalate."
9 BY MR. SLATER:
10 Q
Now, Mr. Rogers, also as to question 11 number one, there was another note underneath 12 "strength" there.
Do you see that?
13 A
Yes, and I believe that goes with question 14 number two.
15 Q
Okay.
16 A
Question number two talks about the 17 weaknesses, and that talks about his answer dealt with 18 trusted people too much was his weakness. See, I drew 19 an arrow down to that.
20 Q
Well, how did that, in your opinion, rate 21 as a five versus something else?
22 A
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was a weakness. At least to me it was unclear.
2 Q
Continue, please.
3 A
Question seven deals with describing some 4
projects that this individual initiated, helped to 5
complete, in chemistry areas, and he mentioned at the 6
Watts Bar Station Chemistry he had worked on a project 7
there including equipment. He mentioned another Watts 8
Bar Chemistry on sodium throws.
9 JUDGE YOUNG:
It says, "sodium"?
10 MR. ROGERS:
"Throws."
That's basically 11 about return --
if you had like in a mixed bed or 12 something, and the bed was collecting impurities, and 13 it may change the pH on it, and it may give off sodium 14 products and it would. contaminate your steam 15 generator.
16 JUDGE YOUNG:
And that's down on the 17 righthand side you're reading?
18 MR. ROGERS:
Yes, I'm reading down this 19 column on the righthand side over here.
20 JUDGE YOUNG:
Oh, I see.
21 MR. ROGERS: And I can't really read what 22 that note under it says.
23 Then it says, "INPO,"
it looks like 24 "Coordinator."
I can't really make sure; my copy's 25 kind of weak.
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chemistry.
Wrote 12 PERs."
PERs are corrective 2
action program documents, Problem Evaluation Reports.
3 Then the Count Room was his biggest area 4
of concern.
Those dealt with question --
5 JUDGE YOUNG: And then underneath it?
6 MR. ROGERS:
seven.
And what I had 7
under there is that he mentioned that those areas that 8
he had worked in Watts Bar, kind of his interfaces 9
with EPRI, the Electrical Power Research Institute, 10 Westinghouse, and steam generators.
"SG" stands for 11 steams generators.
12 JUDGE YOUNG:
He would have had contact 13 with a steam generator group at TVA or steam 14 generators --
15 MR. ROGERS:
Just working with the steam 16 generator folks at Sequoyah, and I don't recall if he 17 mentioned any other utility or not.
18 Question nine talks about the 19 responsibilities and the level of responsibilities of 20 this position, how it would contribute to the success 21 of the program.
22 Right after that I made a note that, No.
23 1, that he believed that the role reflects the 24 chemistry program; No. 2, that it doesn't mean to go 25 behind the Chemistry Manager's back, and, No. 3, "must NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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be in the field."
I had made an arrow up to question 2
three, "must do things" --
I can't make out the next 3
notes there --
"as declaring into startup chemistry."
4 JUDGE YOUNG:
"Declaring into startup 5
chemistry"?
In other words, it's been completed, so 6
that the startup can go forward?
7 MR. ROGERS: Yes, that's what I -- I mean, 8
that's what I would have to say it was.
I don't 9
remember the exact words that he used.
10 Question eleven talked about describing 11 two chemistry concerns --
I'm just trying with my 12 bifocals here to read these questions.
13 JUDGE YOUNG:
You can pull this closer 14 (referring to the microphone).
15 MR. ROGERS:. Again, I'm back on question 16 eleven dealing with chemistry concerns.
17 Keeping up with technology looks like one 18 I had mentioned out to the right there, such as molar 19 ratio control and --
I can't read what those top words 20 are.
"Not sure what new, urgent" --
or whatever --
21 "on the horizon," I think is what it says.
I think 22 what I remember him saying, he wasn't sure trying to 23 keep up what new issue might be on the horizon in the 24 chemistry world.
25 Question twelve dealt with determining or NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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defining what denting was and how does it occur.
I 2
made a note out to the right that that was sludge 3
build-up at penetration of tube sheet and support 4
plate.
5 I made a note underneath of it that 6
"support unit one has denting" in like C-1 there.
I 7
assume that meant row one, one of our major areas.
8 And in "primary,"
I guess that's 9
"constituent" or "primary" --
I'm not sure what that 10 next word is.
"Not sure with the iron," and then 11 question mark after "iron."
12 At the bottom of the page were some 13 general notes again.
I had made a bullet that said, 14 "overly gregarious, not to the point.
No one was --
15 had trouble staying, focusing on one issue or one 16 question."
In other words, he rambled.
17 Question fifteen dealt with chemistry INPO 18 index, what its significance was, and I had made a 19 note out to the right that said:
There are two for 20 molar ratio control and one not on molar ratio 21 control, or "MRC," as it shows here.
22 And then, "Provides industry number for 23 certain atoms such as sodium and iron, et cetera." I 24 can't make out those next notes out to the right 25 there.
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And the next bullet says, "Changes, gets 2
tighter."
3 The next bullet says, "Allows you to see 4
how you stack up against industry."
5 And the next bullet dealt with "Not 6
familiar with Sequoyah, number owned, or what to 7
expect" --
something "to be" --
I can't tell what that 8
next little blurb there meant.
9 JUDGE YOUNG:
"WB"?
10 MR.
ROGERS:
That could be Watts Bar.
11 That's possible.
12 And then under that same question I had --
13 well, let's see now, under question sixteen dealing 14 with management experience, he had 24 years in the 15 business, was a Chemistry Manager at Sequoyah for four 16 years.
His best training was at Sequoyah, Manager, 17 and his next bullet was, "Must know how to handle 18 people."
"Ups and downs" is what the arrows mean.
19 "How to present your case" is my note under that.
20 Then question seventeen dealt with 21 defining molar ratio control and its primary 22 indicators in control.
I made a note that he gave a 23 definition related to sodium control related to number 24 of atoms --
or, excuse me, atomic number.
Then 25 "adjusted by getting sodium down."
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Do you want me to talk about the overall 2
comments?
I think I mentioned most of those.
3 BY MR. SLATER:
4 Q
Yes, please, why don't you?
5 A
Okay, overall comments, I had noted, as I 6
said earlier, that the bullet here, "Technically was 7
not clear on addressing issues."
I pointed out 8
chemistry index and denting, and then, "Communication 9
was too long-winded, not to the point."
10 The next bullet dealt with strengths and 11 weaknesses; almost directly opposed or opposite, I 12 believe I meant there.
13 And I made a note at the bottom that said, 14 "Seem relaxed."
15 Q
Now if you turn over to page 44 --
16 A
Okay.
17 Q
and if you would, explain to us how 18 your notes or your impressions from the interview 19 support the ratings that you gave for each question.
20 A
Well, for instance, question number one, 21 at the time I rated him five.
It didn't seem like he 22 knew, understood where his strengths were, as well as 23 question two dealing with his weaknesses, he didn't 24 seem to be very specific of understanding what his 25 weaknesses were and how he would have to deal with NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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those or be able to work around those to make them 2
more work to his advantage. So I rated him basically 3
neutral or five in that area.
4 On question seven, I also rated him a 5
five.
He seemed to be rambling quite a bit on this 6
particular area and did not ever come to a point where 7
he could show how the areas that he worked on 8
specifically helped in the chemistry area.
9 Question nine, I rated him seven, was up 10 more toward the top.
That dealt with some of his 11 responsibilities that he had had.
12 Question eleven, again, rated it six.
13 That dealt with his understanding of chemistry 14 concerns at Sequoyah. He seemed to have a reasonable 15 understanding, so I rated him six on that.
16 Question twelve, defining denting, I
17 thought he did a fair job on that, understanding 18 denting.
19 Question fifteen, on the chemistry index, 20 I did not think he did quite as well on that question.
21 Being the experience that he had as the Chemistry 22 Manager at Sequoyah, I felt he probably should have 23 understood that or given a more straightforward answer 24 on that question.
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- also, in that he,
- again, rambled a great deal, 2
particularly as far as dealing with how to deal with 3
people, and I felt he wasn't able to show how his 4
management experience or how he could manage people, 5
which would be important in this particular job.
6 Then question seventeen dealt with molar 7
ratio control.
Again, I thought he did a fair job 8
with that one.
I rated him a seven in that.
9 Q
Now if you would, could you compare Mr.
10 Fiser's interview to the interview of Mr. Harvey?
11 A
Mr. Harvey's notes --
12 Q
Start at page 56.
13 A
Over a few pages?
Page 56?
14 Q
Yes, sir.
15 A
Okay.
Again using my notes here, on the 16 second page, which would be page 57, I noted overall 17 that Mr. Harvey was technically very -sound.
He 18 understood denting and molar ratio.
19 I had noted in communications that he was 20 very confident, had very good verbal skills, and 21 another bullet I had was that he knew his strengths 22 and weaknesses and how to use them.
23 Q
And could you turn over to page 58?
Is 24 that the page containing the ratings for each of the 25 questions for Mr. Harvey?
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A That's correct, these are.
2 Q
Could you explain to the Board your 3
particular ratings for each of the questions on page 4
58?
5 A
- Again, I rated the questions as the 6
individual answered them, and the same questions were 7
asked because it was the same position.
8 Dealing with his strengths, he talked 9
about his experiences that he had at previous power 10 plants at Brunswick and Hatch, and that he had gained 11 he understood secondary chemistry and raw water 12 corrosion. I rated him a nine on his response to that 13 question.
14 On question two dealing with his 15 weaknesses, he felt his weakness was BWR because he 16 had been out of --
I can't make out what my little 17 note there meant on that one --
and that PWR was the 18 Count Room, was an area that he felt he could 19 strengthen himself on.
I had rated a nine since he 20 understood where he was in those areas.
21 JUDGE YOUNG:
What's the Count Room?
22 MR. ROGERS:
The Count Room is where 23 chemistry uses to count samples basically, when they 24 are looking for --
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other type of instruments to count isotopes or 2
whatever.
3 JUDGE YOUNG: Where the data is collected 4
and analyzed and trended, and so forth?
5 JUDGE COLE: Not just radioactivity level?
6 MR. ROGERS:
It could be either one.
7 Question
- seven, it's dealing with 8
programs.
He had talked about his work with Calgon, 9
which is a vendor for cleaning up demineralized water, 10 making demineralized water.
He had talked about his 11 work with Ecolochem and also --
12 JUDGE YOUNG:
Back on Calgon, what's the 13 word under "Calgon"?
14 MR. ROGERS:
"Contract."
15 JUDGE YOUNG:
"Contract."
Thank you.
16 MR. ROGERS:
And then the third bullet 17 looks like "secondary optimization at Sequoyah" 18 project, I believe that he worked on while he was in 19 corporate with our Sequoyah chemistry folks.
And I 20 rated him an eight on that particular one.
21 Question
- nine, again, that was 22 responsibilities.
I have made some notes here that, 23 above the question I had made a note that he had 24 responded back that, whatever it takes to solve the 25 problem, from getting in the field to doing big NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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picture, and then after that, after the question, I 2
made a note that "the multi-functional role. He would 3
improve the program and decrease the cost, take big 4
picture look and not get lost in details."
5 And I made a note down the side of the 6
page that he would find that the key was to find the 7
resource to solve the problem.
He gave a Sequoyah 8
example.
And I had rated him a --
that was question 9
nine --
I rated him an eight on that.
10 Question eleven, dealing with chemistry 11 concerns, he talked about steam generator degradation, 12 and I cannot read those next words:
something 13 "chemistry."
14 Under that, he talked about hydrogen 15 chemistry and zinc degradation.
He understood the 16 causes and concerns.
17 I guess up to the left of that page I had 18 said, "Was familiar with Watts Bar's numbers in steam 19 generator chemistry."
And I had rated him a nine on 20 that question.
21 Question twelve dealt with denting, and he 22 talked about the fact related to the support plates 23 and steam generators, unprotected magnetite-at the 24
- tube, and something "to cracking" I guess 25 "susceptible to cracking" is what that word is.
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I had rated him nine on that question.
2 Question fifteen, industry INPO index, he 3
was familiar with the content and its purpose.
He 4
gave examples of what has affected TVA in the INPO 5
chemistry index.
That's what "ICI" stands for.
6 Then the next bullet says, "ICI is good 7
for common-ground check, not necessarily good to say 8
good chemistry. It's got to be relational." In other 9
words, what he was saying is that it gives you a 10 relationship to other plants other than chemistry.
I 11 rated him an eight on that.
Excuse me --
yes, an 12 eight on that one.
13 And on question sixteen related to 14 management experience, he indicated that "the last 15 five years as a program" -- and I'd have to --
I don't 16 recall specifically what that meant to me at the time, 17 but it meant something to me.
18 "Goes over wide range of people.
Must 19 make customers happy." And based on that response, I 20 had rated him eight.
Whatever other words he used, 21 these are just my notes I had here.
22 And "what is the molar ratio control" 23 question, I had just made a note there that he knew 24 some history.
I had rated him nine on that one.
25 BY MR. SLATER:
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1 2
3 4
5 6
7 8
9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 2 0 21 22 23 24 25 5198 Q
If you would just keep your finger on page 58, if you can just turn back to 44, and could you tell us what overall total score you gave Mr. Fiser?
A Mr. Fiser's grade was 51 of 90.
Q And how does that compare on page 58 to the score for Mr. Harvey?
A Mr. Harvey's was 77 of 90.
Q As to all of the other interviews that came after Mr. Fiser and Mr. Harvey, did you use the same process and method to evaluate how they responded to the questions that were asked during their interviews?
A Yes, I did. I rated each individual based on their technical response and their presentation of the response.
Q And that was for the folks who interviewed for the PWR job, the BWR job, also the Rad Con positions, and the Rad Waste positions, is that correct?
conclu McArth A
That's correct.
Q Now could you tell us, after the sion of all the interviews, what did you do?
A I gave my book to Wilson McArthur.
Q Did you have any discussions with Mr.
ur about how you graded the candidates?
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2 3
4 5
6 7
8 9
10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 A
Nothing specific.
Q What do you mean?
A Well, basically, we just said we graded them and here are the grades, and my notes are attached there, and if you have any questions, give me a call.
Q Upon leaving, did you know who had scored highest with respect to any of the positions?
A No.
Q And why is that?
A We didn't discuss any of the grades among the selection review board. Normally, it's up to the selecting manager to take those grades or those notes and use those in making his selection.
MR. SLATER:
If I could have a moment, Your Honors?
(Pause.)
MR. SLATER:
No further questions.
JUDGE YOUNG:
Do you need a break?
MS. EUCHNER: Your Honors, I need a break to prepare my cross.
CHAIRMAN BECHHOEFER:
Okay.
Before we take a break, let me just ask one question.
I would like to ask just one question before we break, Mr.
Rogers.
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Were there any guidelines or standards to 2
determine how you graded from one to ten, such as like 3
five, "knew some of it but not all of it" or anything, 4
any specific guidelines for how you got either one to 5
ten or some level in between?
6 MR. ROGERS:
I graded those based on the 7
way I felt I would answer the questions and my 8
knowledge of the questions and how I would answer the 9
managerial questions.
I did not have a checklist, if 10 you would, but it's based on my experience and my 11 understanding of the questions, how they should be 12 answered.
That's the way I graded each individual.
13 CHAIRMAN BECHHOEFER: I see. Did you have 14 any discussions before the board meeting started with 15 either the other board members or with perhaps Dr.
16 McArthur as to how you should, how you determine what 17 the scale would be for each question?
18 MR. ROGERS: No, we did not discuss how we 19 would grade each question.
The sheets indicated it 20 would be zero --
or one to ten, and just grade them 21 one to ten, based on the response to the question.
22 There was no discussion about how you would grade each 23 question. It was up to the individual selection board 24 member to grade each individual candidate.
25 CHAIRMAN BECHHOEFER:
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10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 5201 specific guidelines as to what constitutes a five or seven --
MR. ROGERS:
No, sir.
CHAIRMAN BECHHOEFER:
or eight?
MR.
ROGERS:
No, it was up to the individual selection board member.
CHAIRMAN BECHHOEFER:
Okay, thank you.
MR. SLATER:
Could I have a follow-up question?
CHAIRMAN BECHHOEFER: Yes. Yes, you may.
CONTINUED DIRECT EXAMINATION BY MR. SLATER:
Q Prior to sitting on this particular SRB, had you sat on others?
A Yes, I had.
Q And the manner in which you graded the interviewees in this particular SRB, could you compare that to how you did it in others?
A In the same manner.
Again, it was based on how the individual responded to the questions technically and also how they presented themselves in response to the question.
And I've sat on interview boards both for technical positions as well as managerial positions.
Q In the others did anybody tell you how or NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 5202 suggest to you any guidelines or process in which to evaluate the responses to the questions?
A No.
Selection review
- boards, each individual grades the candidates by themselves based on their own understanding of the issues that's presented and the individual, how he presents himself.
That's the whole purpose of a selection review board, is to get the different opinions and input for the selecting manager from three or four different people, so that he can make a good choice based on that.
Q Thank you.
CHAIRMAN BECHHOEFER:
Thank you.
Let's take a 15-minute break, which means about 10:25.
(Whereupon, the foregoing matter went off the record at 10:13 a.m. and went back on the record at 10:33 a.m.)
CHAIRMAN BECHHOEFER: Back on the record.
Ms. Euchner.
CROSS EXAMINATION BY MS. EUCHNER:
Q Mr. Rogers, I'd like you to turn to TVA Exhibit No. 144 which is your r6sume.
A Okay.
Q Earlier you testified that in 1996 at the NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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time that this selection review board took place that 2
you just had become the maintenance supervisor.
Is 3
that correct?
4 A
Yes, that position as technical support 5
manager I show here went away in about that timeframe 6
and when we reorganized and the position was retitled 7
as maintenance support manager.
I didn't show that 8
specifically on the resume here but that was the way 9
it was retitled.
10 Q
So what the resume should read would be 11 January 1995 to approximately summer of 1996 technical 12 support and then summer of 1996 to April 1997 13 maintenance support?
14 A
Yes.
15 Q
During that timeframe, who was your 16 immediate supervisor?
17 A
For the first part of that, it was Don 18 Moody. Then Don Moody became ill and Tom McGrath took 19 over the position.
My direct supervisor when I was 20 technical support manager though was David Goetcheus.
21 Don Moody was the next level up.
22 Q
And in the 1996 reorganization then Mr.
23 McGrath became your first line supervisor.
24 A
Yes, he was the direct supervisor at that 25 point.
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Q Mr. Slater on your direct testimony took 2
you through your chemistry training and other 3
experiences.
Have you ever worked as a chemist?
4 A
No.
5 Q
Have you ever supervised a chemistry 6
department at TVA?
7 A
No.
8 Q
It's noted on your resume and in your 9
testimony that you have the certifications for senior 10 reactor operator and shift technical advisor. Did you 11 ever work as an SRO?
12 A
No, that's a certification so I do not 13 have a license from NRC.
I have a certification. But 14 I did work as a shift technical advisor on shift with 15 operations.
16 Q
And when was that?
17 A
That was during the timeframe that the 18 resume shows I was in the compliance section. That's 19 between 1981 and 1986. What that position did was you 20 worked your normal job and then periodically you would 21 go on shift with operations as a technical advisor.
22 You would spend a few months on shift and then you 23 would rotate back off and go back on shift 24 periodically. So you would go back and forth between 25 your normal job and the shift technical advisor NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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position with operations.
2 JUDGE YOUNG:
If I could just interrupt 3
here and back up just a second.
Could you explain to 4
me your understanding of the difference between 5
certification and licensure for the senior reactor 6
operator?
7 THE WITNESS: Yes, NRC issues a license to 8
people who pass the NRC exam for senior reactor 9
operators.
The SRO certification is within TVA's 10 house itself. We take all the same screening that an 11 SRO would take except we do not sit for the NRC exam.
12 TVA issues a SRO certification based on their training 13 program.
You get all the training as an SRO but you 14 just don't sit for the exam that NRC has.
15 JUDGE YOUNG:
Thank you.
16 JUDGE COLE:
Do they have a similar 17 program for the shift technical advisors?
18 THE WITNESS:
Yes, the shift technical 19 advisors, it's the same program.
20 JUDGE COLE:
Does NRC license the shift 21 technical advisors or just the reactor operators?
22 THE WITNESS: No, just the senior reactor 23 operators.
24 JUDGE COLE:
Thank you.
25 MS. EUCHNER: I'd like you now to turn to NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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Joint Exhibit No. 20 which is the notebook you used 2
for the selection.
When did you get this notebook?
3 Did you get it on the day of the interviews or prior?
4 THE WITNESS:
The day of the interviews 5
when we came to the interview board.
6 BY MS. EUCHNER:
7 Q
When you got it, did you read any of the 8
information in it?
9 A
I just looked at who the interviews were 10 going to be and then I looked at the questions as I 11 went through each of the positions.
12 Q
Did you read the candidates' resumes?
13 A
No.
14 Q
Did you read the vacant position 15 announcements?
16 A
No.
17 Q
Did the position descriptions for these 18 positions appear anywhere in this book?
19 A
I will have to look. They don't appear to 20 be.
21 Q
You testified earlier that the questions 22 that the board asked of the candidates were pertinent 23 to the PWR chemistry area.
If you didn't read the 24 vacant position announcement or see a position 25 description for the position, how did you know that NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE.. N.W.
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these questions were pertinent to the position you 2
were interviewing for?
3 A
I was familiar with the aspects of having 4
a PWR and VWR chemistry person as well as some of 5
these other positions based on similar positions prior 6
to this timeframe and understanding that their role 7
was to interface with the chemistry folks at Sequoyah 8
and I understood their role at Sequoyah.
9 Q
I'd like you to turn now in the notebook 10 to page 175 towards the back of the book.
11 A
Okay.
12 Q
The questions that were asked that day, I 13 believe you testified earlier that you felt that they 14 fairly well covered what the PWR chemist would be 15 doing and that they would be representative of what 16 they would be looking for for someone to hold this 17 position.
Is that correct?
18 A
Yes, they are relative to the position and 19 how the individual would carry out his 20 responsibilities and they would allow enough 21 information to probe the individual to see if he was 22 capable of carrying out those responsibilities.
23 Q
And you felt that it was representative of 24 what all those responsibilities would be.
25 A
Yes.
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Q On page 175 of Joint Exhibit No. 20, can 2
you please read the duties section?
3 A
"Provide senior technical direction, 4
expert
- support, oversight and program project 5
management in the chemistry programs of TVAN 6
facilities, develop programmatic requirements for 7
chemistry management programs. Incumbent serves as a 8
primary liaison between TVAN sites and TVAN corporate.
9 Incumbent manages the implementation of directives, 10 standards and policies and regulations at all TVAN 11 sites.
Incumbent is the PWR chemistry contact for 12 insuring that high standards are set and maintained at 13 both corporate and the TVAN sites."
14 Q
Would you say that's a fairly broad 15 description of the PWR chemistry manager position?
16 A
Yes, I would.
17 Q
Does it say anywhere in the description of 18 those duties anything about steam generator chemistry?
19 A
No, it doesn't.
20 Q
Does it say anything about secondary 21 chemistry?
22 A
No, not specifically.
23 Q
Then why did the questions that were asked 24 solely relate to steam generator and secondary 25 chemistry?
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A For the individual 'to be able to develop 2
programmatic requirements for chemistry and for being 3
able to be the liaison between the sites and the 4
corporate
- folks, an individual would have to 5
understand secondary side chemistry, primary side 6
chemistry and things such as the effects on steam 7
generators.
Otherwise he would be ineffective at 8
being to interface with the sites and being able to 9
insure that the program's policies and standards would 10 be the right ones for TVA to insure that we have the 11 right chemistry for our plant.
12 Q
You just stated not just secondary and 13 steam generator but primary chemistry.
Did the 14 questions you asked cover primary chemistry?
15 A
No direct questions with primary 16 chemistry, no.
17 Q
And that's included in this broad 18 description of duties, is it not?
19 A
Yes, it is.
20 Q
You testified earlier that when you graded 21 each of the candidates that the way you determined 22 what score you would give is based on how you would 23 answered the question, is that correct?
24 A
How I would answer it and how I would 25 expect him to answer the question.
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6 7
8 9
10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 5210 Q
How would Mr. Fiser or for that matter any of the other candidates know what you personally would have thought was the correct answer to those questions?
A Again this was my judgement on how I expected them to answer the questions.
Q And what if Mr. Kent and Mr. Corey had totally different expectations for answering the questions?
A They graded the individual based on their knowledge and understanding of the answer as I graded the individual myself based on my understanding of the question and how I expected the person to answer the question.
Q The three of you never discussed either prior to or some time during the interviews to make sure that you were all being consistent in your grading?
anythi guidar correc A
That's correct.
We did not Lng like that.
Q You testified that you never ice on how to score the candidates.
zt?
discuss got any Is that A
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10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 you have served on, is it?
A That's correct. This is not the only one.
Q About how many would you say you served on?
A Probably six or seven.
Maybe as many as ten including some since this particular one.
Q In any of those, does the selecting manager ever give guidance as to what he or she is looking for in the candidates?
A No, not in the ones I've been in.
MS. EUCHNER:
I'm going to have Staff Exhibit No. 115 marked.
(Whereupon, the above-referred to document was marked as Staff's Exhibit No.
115 for identification.)
MS. EUCHNER:
Mr. Rogers, do you recall last November I took your deposition in this case?
THE WITNESS:
Yes, in Chattanooga.
BY MS. EUCHNER:
Q What you have in front of you, is that a transcript of that deposition?
A It appears to be.
Q I'd like you please to turn to page 32.
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9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 5212 going to have to look pretty carefully but line one starts with "...procedures.
It's been guidance from our human..." if you can't read the page numbers.
JUDGE COLE: Would you repeat again what's at the top of the page?
MS. EUCHNER: Line 1 says, "... procedures.
It's been guidance from our human..."
JUDGE COLE: The typewriter must have run out of ink.
JUDGE YOUNG:
JUDGE COLE:
JUDGE YOUNG:
THE WITNESS:
MS. EUCHNER:
Okay, I found it.
What page number?
Thirty?
Thirty-two.
Can I go ahead? I found it.
Your Honors, have you all found it?
JUDGE COLE: Yes, I started counting from the front.
MS. EUCHNER:
Do you recall during the deposition that I asked you a number of questions about your prior experiences serving on selection review boards?
THE WITNESS:
Yes, I do.
BY MS. EUCHNER:
Q And I
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either themselves or with the selecting manager 2
discuss the questions.
Do you recall that?
3 A
It looks like it's on this page here, yes.
4 Q
And do you recall that on this page you 5
told me that the selecting manager might give guidance 6
as to what he was looking for in a correct answer?
7 A
Yes, basically what I said here if I can 8
look at this, it says "selecting manager goes through 9
the questions...
" I'm reading about halfway down the 10 page. For instance I said "Brett, you're going to ask 11 questions one, two, three and I went around the table.
12 Then the selecting manager says here is the kind of 13 things I might be looking."
He might give some 14 guidance and that's true if he wants to but typically 15 that's not normally done but he could, has I guess in 16 the past.
I just don't recall anyone at this 17 particular point in time right now.
18 Q
So what you are saying is at the moment 19 you don't recall anybody doing that.
But in your 20 deposition you did remember in the past someone having 21 done that.
22 A
For the McArthur board, there was no 23 guidance given.
That's what I was talking about.
24 Q
But for boards in general, the selecting 25 manager can and in the past has given guidance.
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A
- Yes, if he wants to but for that 2
particular board Dr. McArthur did not give any and 3
that was what I was referring to.
4 Q
Let's go now to the questions for the 5
chemistry PWR and that's on page 42 of Joint Exhibit 6
No. 20.
7 JUDGE YOUNG:
What was the page again?
8 MS. EUCHNER:
Forty-two.
You testified 9
earlier that for a position such as this, management 10 skills were important because you would be interfacing 11 a lot with the sites.
Is that correct?
12 THE WITNESS:
Yes.
13 BY MS. EUCHNER:
14 Q
What sort of management skills would be 15 important for this sort of position?
16 A
You would need to know how basically 17 processes worked at the plant.
He would need to be 18 able to present a case clearly, very succinctly.
He 19 needed basically to recognize when problems existed, 20 to be able to do an overview and be able to point 21 those out to management.
He would need to be able to 22 make presentations to management and also be able to 23 provide guidance to the management, make 24 recommendations to them when they need to make changes 25 to programs or processes or possibly even people.
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Q Are interpersonal skills important for 2
that?
3 A
Interpersonal skills would be important to 4
that job.
5 Q
If someone had problems with interpersonal 6
skills, that would be relevant in determining whether 7
they would make a good chemistry manager.
8 A
It could influence the way his particular 9
program manager is working.
That's correct.
10 Q
Would mistreatment or harassment of female 11 employees be relevant to determining whether someone 12 would have the relevant interpersonal skills for this 13 job?
14 MR. SLATER: Objection. Beyond the scope 15 of direct examination.
16 MS. EUCHNER:
Your Honors, he questioned 17 him about management skills being important.
Mr.
18 Rogers just testified that interpersonal skills are 19 part of that.
I believe he opened the door.
20 CHAIRMANBECHHOEFER: Objection overruled.
21 MS. EUCHNER: Do you need for me to repeat 22 the question, Mr. Rogers?
23 THE WITNESS:
Would you repeat the 24 question?
25 BY MS. EUCHNER:
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Q Would either mistreatment or harassment of 2
female employees be a relevant interpersonal skill in 3
considering whether someone could handle this job 4
well?
5 A
Harassment of any type is not appropriate 6
for managers regardless of the position.
7 Q
When you interviewed Mr. Harvey and asked 8
him the question about his weaknesses, did he mention 9
interpersonal skills as a weakness?
10 A
Not that I recall.
11 Q
The question about weaknesses which reads 12 "Indicate weaknesses that you need to address if you 13 fill this position" how do you rate that question?
14 What's a one for that question and what's a 10.
If 15 you have no weaknesses, you get a 10.
Or if you have 16 a lot of weaknesses, you get a 10?
17 A
No, I based the answer on if the 18 individual knew what his weakness was and how he would 19 use that to his advantage.
In other words, if I have 20 a weakness, I want to be able to recognize I have that 21 weakness and be able to use that weakness not in a 22 negative way but within a positive way.
To try and 23 make a positive out of my weakness and recognize that 24 since I have that weakness, I know that I need to work 25 on that and develop that in different ways.
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That's what I was looking for.
Q How would you know when the candidate was answering that question whether they even knew what their real weaknesses were or whether they were communicating to you what their true weaknesses were?
A I was looking at how the individual responded.
Did he say my weakness is X and I recognize that and this is the way that I deal with that weakness and here's what I'm doing to improve myself to overcome that weakness?
Q So essentially you weren't looking to the substance of the answer.
You were looking to demeanor, self-confidence.
A I was looking to see did he understand that he had a weakness and did he understand what that weakness was and what it meant to him in that particular position. I truly don't know if that's his weakness or not if I didn't know the individual personally and had seen him in action so I couldn't attest to whether he was accurate or not or he just gave me an answer.
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utilize that particular weakness to improve or to be 2
able to improve themselves or work toward positive 3
aspects of that weakness.
4 Q
So essentially in your own personal 5
scoring, you didn't care whether they were giving you 6
their true weaknesses.
You were just going to grade 7
them on what they told you.
8 A
It wasn't that I didn't care.
I just 9
didn't have the ability to make the assessment of 10 whether it was true or not true without spending a lot 11 of time with an individual.
This was an interview 12 situation so you are asking an individual a question.
13 They are responding back to me.
I'm having to assess 14 okay this individual recognizes the question I'm being 15 asked and is able to respond to it.
16 Q
On page 42 of the questions and these are 17 your notes with the questions for Mr. Fiser.
Under 18 question two, you have a note that says "trust people 19 too much" as Mr. Fiser's weakness.
Were you aware 20 that in the past Mr. Kent and Dr. McArthur were people 21 that Mr. Fiser had trusted and cost him his job at 22 Sequoyah?
23 A
No.
24 Q
Would it surprise you that he didn't 25 elaborate more on what his weakness was with the two NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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of them in the room?
2 A
All I can say is Gary answered the 3
question. He answered the question and I didn't think 4
he understood what his weakness was.
5 Q
For question number nine for Mr. Fiser, 6
you have a note that says "doesn't mean to go behind 7
the chem manager back."
Is that correct?
Is that 8
what that says?
9 A
Question nine?
10 Q
Question nine.
11 A
Yes, my sub note two or circle number two 12 there indicates doesn't mean to go behind chemistry 13 manager back.
14 Q
You said that you had interactions with 15 Mr; Fiser back when he was Sequoyah chemistry manager, 16 correct?
17 A
That's correct.
18 Q
And I believe you testified that you 19 thought he did a good job and that he was an effective 20 Sequoyah chemistry manager.
21 A
Yes, I did.
22 Q
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his position as Sequoyah chemistry manager?
2 A
No, I was not aware of that.
3 Q
Would it have impacted his answer knowing 4
that in the past he had had people do exactly that?
5 A
I can't answer for him if he felt that 6
would impact his answer.
7 Q
If you would have had that knowledge, 8
would that have impacted your score of Mr. Fiser on 9
that question?
10 A
No.
11 Q
You don't think that knowing that in the 12 past he had been in that exact situation that him 13 acknowledging that that could potentially be a problem 14 demonstrates awareness on his part as to what a 15 corporate chemistry manager should be doing?
16 A
You will have to rephrase the question.
17 I'm not sure what you are asking.
18 Q
You just said that knowing that in the 19 past a corporate chemistry manager had gone behind Mr.
20 Fiser's back and undermined his authority at the site 21 would not have changed your view of his answer to that 22 question.
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their backs but instead working closely with them to 2
solve any problems.
3 A
I'm not sure whether I remember the 4
conversation six or seven years ago but I had to grade 5
it back then. I don't remember exactly what the words 6
were.
7 Q
Is supporting plant management a good 8
thing for a corporate chemistry manager?
9 A
Is supporting plant management? Yes.
10 Q
Would doing something to undermine plant 11 management be a bad thing for a corporate chemistry 12 manager?
13 A
You couldn't undermine any other manager 14 but you can be direct to a manager and say the wrong.
15 You have to know how to present it.
16 Q
Question number 12, the question about 17 denting, you stated earlier that a good answer was one 18 that would have been the way you answered it.
How 19 would you have answered this question?
20 A
I would have expected them to describe, 21 and as I recall Fiser did a pretty fair job on this 22 one here, that denting basically is where you build up 23 impurities in the tube-to-tube sheet area and 24 basically cause stress erosion on the other tube in 25 this crevice area and cause stress on the tube and NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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basically have the potential of causing cracks in the 2
tube.
That's basically what denting is.
3 Q
Would you have expected the candidates to 4
go beyond that basic answer to state how you can 5
minimize denting or prevent it in the future?
6 A
For this particular position, I would have 7
accepted to go a little further than that.
Yes.
8 Q
So even though the question didn't ask him 9
to go any further, you would have assumed that he 10 would know that he was supposed to go further.
11 A
Yes, I would think he would have explained 12 it better than what I just did.
13 Q
Okay.
I just have asked you to explain 14 what you were looking for in an answer. Now you just 15 told me that you would have expected him to go further 16 than what you just answered.
17 MR. SLATER:
Objection.
I believe she 18 followed that up with what is denting.
I think she 19 narrowed the question.
20 MS. EUCHNER:
I believe I asked him to 21 give me what he thought his answer to this question 22 was.
I didn't read the question.
23 MR. SLATER:
And then she attached to it 24 what is denting.
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question is.
2 MR. SLATER:
There were two questions.
3 MS. EUCHNER:
Then I asked an additional 4
question that does not appear in this question and he 5
said he would have expected an answer to that 6
question.
But he didn't give it to me.
7 MR. SLATER:
There were two questions on 8
the table.
9 JUDGE YOUNG:
Which were?
10 MR. SLATER: The first one was what do you 11 expect --
12 JUDGE COLE:
How would you answer the 13 question?
14 MR. SLATER: Then there was a follow-up to 15 it before he could answer that particular question.
16 She then asked "What is denting?"
17 MS. EUCHNER:
All right.
I have no 18 problem allowing the witness to --
19 CHAIRMAN BECHHOEFER: Answer all three.
20 JUDGE YOUNG:
I think they all get to the 21 same general point.
22 CHAIRMAN BECHHOEFER:
Yes.
23 MR. SLATER:
I think he's entitled to 24 answer one at a time.
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what he would expect a complete answer to this 2
question that he would have given a 10 to. That's all 3
I need to know from him.
4 THE WITNESS: I would have expected him to 5
describe denting and the mechanisms that cause denting 6
in steam generator tubes.
7 MS. EUCHNER:
- Okay, and for my next 8
question, would you expect him to go beyond that to 9
say what actions are necessary to take to minimize 10 denting?
11 THE WITNESS:
I do not recall what 12 specific follow-up questions I may have asked at that 13 particular time.
But if at that particular time I 14 wanted to know more, I would have asked a follow-up 15 question. It may not have been written down here. If 16 I didn't feel like he had proceeded further enough 17 along that I wanted to hear, I would have asked a 18 follow-up question verbally.
19 JUDGE COLE: You would do that even though 20 Mr. Kent that was in charge of that question and 21 asking the question.
22 THE WITNESS: Yes. Selection review board 23 members can ask follow-up questions if they wish.
24 JUDGE COLE:
Okay.
25 JUDGE YOUNG:
To what extent was your NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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score for Mr.
Fiser based on the answer to the 2
question of what is denting? And to what extent was 3
it based on answers to any follow-up questions?
4 THE WITNESS:
I'm not sure I can recall 5
that far back as to whether it was based on any 6
follow-up questions or not but again I tried to grade 7
him based on how he answered denting and its 8
mechanisms and how does it occur.
I don't recall if 9
there was a follow-up question or not.
I cannot tell 10 that now from my notes here.
11 JUDGE YOUNG:
Do you recall what 12 inadequacies you perceived in his answer?
13 THE WITNESS:
I cannot discern that now 14 from my notes here.
15 JUDGE YOUNG:
Do you recall whether you 16 felt that he did not understand what denting was or 17 did not completely understand what denting was or is?
18 THE WITNESS: As I noted on the next page, 19 I said he was not technically clear on addressing 20 denting so I would be speculating now on what he 21 exactly said.
22 JUDGE COLE:
You would what?
23 THE WITNESS:
I would be speculating now 24 on what he said six or seven years ago because I don't 25 remember exactly what he said six or seven years ago.
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When I graded the question, I graded it based on the 2
fact of what I heard at that particular time and I 3
don't recall the specific words.
I apologize but I 4
just don't recall specific words.
I just didn't feel 5
at the time six or seven years ago that he was 6
technically clear in addressing denting. I'm not sure 7
what aspects of it I was --
8 JUDGE YOUNG:
If you could clarify for me 9
please if you were asked the question today and you 10 are being asked the question today, define the term 11 "denting" and where and how does it occur, what would 12 your answer be that would be expected to give yourself 13 a perfect score on that.
14 THE WITNESS:
I would describe it as how 15 denting occurred again from a build-up of impurities 16 in the crevices.
I would describe how that process 17 works and you have low-flow regions between the tube 18 sheet and the tube and that it is impurities in those 19 areas.
Because of the nucleate boiling and the film 20 boiling going on there, you get impurities that --
21 JUDGE YOUNG:
The nuclear boiling and the 22 pin --
23 THE WITNESS:
Film boiling.
24 JUDGE YOUNG:
Film?
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on thesurface of the tube.
Those two areas because 2
of a low flow get impurities that played out on the 3
tube and between the tube and the tube sheet.
That 4
puts *a stress on the tube itself.
That stress is 5
called denting.
That stress can cause openings or O
leaks add/ofL Cbe ripLure, in steam generator tubes 7
such as happened at Ginna a number of years ago.
8 JUDGE YOUNG:
What impurities are you 9
talking about?
10 THE WITNESS:
We're talking about anions 1
and cations:
sodiums, pocassiums ana also you can 12 transport iron particles or copper particles from the 13 rest of your piping into secondary side. You can have 14 copper in your feedwater tubes or your condenser tubes 15 and of course the iron particles off the carbon steel 16 pipe which is typically what your secondary side is 17 made up of.
Those could also become deposited in 18 there.
19 It's similar to boiling a pot of water and 20 you bo'il a pot of water basically down and you'll see 21 the whte residue on the side of the pot. That's your 22 deposit, your impurities, that would boil out. That's 23 what basically happens in this crevice area because of 24 the" low flow, impurities boil out and you start 25 building them up and sufficiently fill that void and NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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it starts building a stress if you would on the tube 2
itself.
3 JUDGE YOUNG:
Thank you.
4 CROSS EXAMINATION (con't) 5 BY MS.
EUCHNER:
6
.Q You stated in your earlier testimony that 7
demeanor played at least a part in how you rated each 8
of the candidates.
To what extent did demeanor play 9
a role in the scores you gave each person?
10 I looked to see how the person composed 11 himself, how he presented the questions, was he direct 12 and to the point.
I looked at that for each of the 13 questions whether it be for the managerial questions 14 and'che technical questions.
It was a portion of the 15 answers.
I was looking to see how they responded 16 really on all questions but more so probably on the 17 management questions but also how he addressed the 18 board ;and was he attentive and focused and succinct in 19 responding to the question.
20 Q
Did you deduct points for someone who 21 wasn't like that?
22 A
Yes.
23 Q
And you added points for someone who was?
24 A
- Yes, someone who was more direct and 25 succinct and to the point I gave him greater marks
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than the one who was not and who did not come to the 2
point.
3 Q
Even if they both gave the same technical 4
answer.
5 A
Even if I had someone who gave exactly the 6
same answer.
That's what I believe your question is.
7 If I had person A giving one answer and if person B 8
gives the same exact answer but their demeanor isn't 9
the same, yes, I would have graded the individual with 10 the better approach slightly higher than the one 11 without.
12 Q
Did you score each question as you asked 13 the question or did you wait until the end of the 14 interview and then go in and fill the score sheet out?
15 A
I believe it was at the end that I scored 16 them.
17 JUDGE COLE:
At the end of all the exams 18 or just after you finished Mr. Fiser for example?
19 THE WITNESS: After Mr. Fiser, Mr. Harvey 20 and Mr. Chandra and so forth.
After each of their 21 interviews, I graded each of those questions.
22 JUDGE COLE:
So when you finished Mr.
23 Fiser,- you then graded all his questions before you 24 went to the next examinee.
25 THE WITNESS:
Yes, sir, that's correct.
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MS. EUCHNER:
In your notes for each one 2
of the circled questions, do you indicate what the 3
candidate's demeanor was for each question?
4 THE WITNESS:
Not specifically for each 5
question necessarily. I do have overall notes that I 6
noted on here.
7 BY MS. EUCHNER:
8 IQ So did you use your overall notes in 9
determining the demeanor for how to score each 10 question or did you recall what Mr. Fiser's demeanor 11 was for question one as opposed to what his demeanor 12 for question two?
13
- A Both.
14 Q
So I believe you testified earlier that 15 you fel-t Mr. Fiser was kind of laid back and quiet.
16 Is that correct?
17 A
He wasn't quiet.
He was laid back.
18 Q
Laid back? Relaxed?
19 A
Laid back, relaxed, yes.
20 Q
So you felt that he was too laid back and 21 relaxed for this interview.
Does that mean he got a 22 lower score on every question you asked him because of 23 that attitude?
24 A
It impacted each of the questions, yes.
25 Q
So you essentially deducted his score on NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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5 6
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9 10 21 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 2 0 2 1 22 23 24 25 5231 each question simply because you thought he was too relaxed.
A
- Yes, his presentation to each of the questions was not formal and he didn't sit up and present himself as I would expect him to presenting to a selection review board and to management.
I would expect him to be attentive and sit up straight and to address the points directly.
All of his answers and in ail the interview he did not do that.
Q If you could turn now to page 44, this is your score sheet for Mr. Fiser.
Earlier today, Mr.
Slater took you through each one of those scores and you testified as to why you gave Mr. Fiser each of those scores.
Do you recall that testimony?
A..
Yes, Mr. Slater asked me to go through and describe my notes to each one of these questions to be relative to the score back here.
Q I believe you read your notes first at Judge Young's request.
.'A Yes.
Q You read each note and then you went back and Mr.
Slater asked you about the score.
You testified as to more specific information than was in your notes. Do you recall when I took your deposition back in November I asked you the exact same questions NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE.. N.W.
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5232 1
about each one of these questions?
2 A
No.
3 Q
All right.
Let me see if I can get you a 4
page number.
I think it's starting on page 61 towards 5
the bottom.
6 CHAIRMAN BECHHOEFER: Which exhibit is the 7
deposition?
8 MS. EUCHNER:
One-fifteen.
Staff 115.
9 THE WITNESS:
Page 61?
10 MS. EUCHNER:
Yes.
11 MR.
DAMBLY:
Maybe I can ask while 12 everyone is looking for that.
Do you need a break at 13 this time, Judge?
I thought you said 11:00 a.m.
14 CHAIRMAN BECHHOEFER:
Yes, it would be 15 useful.
16 MS. EUCHNER:
We can take a break now.
17 CHAIRMAN BECHHOEFER:
Okay.
About ten 18 minutes please.
Ten minutes should be enough.
Off 19 the record.
20 (Whereupon, the foregoing matter went off 21 the record at 11:17 a.m. and went back on 22 the record at 11:40 a.m.)
23 JUDGE YOUNG:
On the record.
Are you 24 ready?
25 MS. EUCHNER:
Yes.
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JUDGE YOUNG:
Go ahead.
2 BY MS. EUCHNER:
3 Q
We are looking at Staff Exhibit 115 which 4
is your deposition.
If you look on the bottom of page 5
61 the very last line, it says "Question.
Do you 6
recall anything else of his answer other than what you 7
wrote there?" Your answer was "No. Not at this point 8
in time."
9 Then again at the bottom of that page on 10 line 21 I ask you "Can you explain to me why you gave 11 Mr. Fiser a five? Answer. Well, I don't know at this 12 point in time.
It's been too long, I mean, since I 13 interviewed the guys."
Do you recall that?
14 A
Yes.
15 Q
Can you explain to me why it was today 16 when Mr. Slater asked you why you gave Mr. Fiser a 17 fivq you had recollection of things other than your 18 notes, but when I asked you ten months ago you didn't 19 have any recollection?
20 MR.
SLATER:
Objection.
That's a 21 mischaracterization of my question.
22 MS. EUCHNER:
Mr. Slater took him line 23 through line through this score sheet and said why did 24 you give Mr. Fiser a five, why did you give him a 25 five.
Mr. Rogers responded.
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his deposition. Every time I asked I got told I don't 2
recall.
3 MR.
SLATER:
He responded based on 4
referring back to his notes.
5 MS. EUCHNER:
He went further than his 6
notes today.
7 JUDGE YOUNG: I think it may be difficult 8
to go back since we don't have a transcript to look 9
at.
I tend to think that the door was opened to 10 giving explanations of why.
11 MR. SLATER:
She's asking it for further 12 information. I didn't ask Mr. Rogers to give further 13 information.
I just asked him why did he give Mr.
14 Fiser and Mr. Harvey X, Y, Z scores. He went back and 15 referred back to his notes.
16 MS. EUCHNER: Well, I believe if you read 17 on the bottom of page 62, my question is "Can you 18 explain to me why you gave Mr. Fiser a five?"
The 19 answer was "I don't know at this point in time." That 20 is.not what he answered to Mr. Slater today.
21 JUDGE YOUNG:
Did Mr. Rogers have his 22 notes in front of him during the deposition?
23 MS. EUCHNER:
Yes, Your Honor, he did 24 because if you read through all of the sections I had 25 him do exactly what he did today and read his notes to NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE.. N W.
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me.
That way I could make sure I was reading them 2
properly. Then I asked him the question "Why did you 3
give Mr. Fiser or Mr. Harvey this score." Every time 4
I asked that question I got told "I don't know other 5
than what my notes say.",
6 JUDGE YOUNG:
Mr. Rogers, what further 7
explanation can you provide on why you gave him the 8
score you did and why you might not have known at the 9
time of the deposition and whether there was any 10 difference between what you thought then and what you 11 answered earlier today.
12 THE WITNESS: Again, Your Honor, I graded 13 the question based on the individual's response to the 14 question.
I read the question a few moments ago and 15 read my notes and tried to interpret my notes here so 16 that you could understand my notes.
I still do not 17 recall any additional details other than what my notes 18 say. I was just trying to interpret my notes for you.
19 BY MS.
EUCHNER:
20 Q
Well, can you explain to me then why you 21 didn'tf interpret your notes for me when I asked you 22 the same exact questions that Mr. Slater asked you?
23 MR. SLATER:
Objection, Your Honor. Maybe 24 she should have asked him that question in the 25 deposition.
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MS.
EUCHNER:
I asked him the same 2
question that you asked him pretty much verbatim. He 3
decided to come up with new information for you and 4
didn't do that for us.
5 MR. SLATER:
Your Honor, again --
6 CHAIRMAN BECHHOEFER: Just to clarify for 7
the record, I understand at least you had these notes 8
available during your deposition.
9 THE WITNESS: Yes. I had this book at the 10 deposition.
11 CHAIRMAN BECHHOEFER:
Thank you.
12 (Judges confer.)
13 JUDGE YOUNG:
We'll allow you to go a 14 little way with it.
15 CHAIRMAN BECHHOEFER:
The objection is 16 overruled at this point.
You may ask the question.
17 MS. EUCHNER: Could you give me a moment, 18 Your Honor?
19 BY MS. EUCHNER:
20 Q
If you look back at page 62 of the 21 deposition at the bottom of the page where I ask you 22 "Can you explain to me why you gave Mr. Fiser a five?"
23 and you answered me "I don't know at this point in 24 time."
Do you know why you gave Mr. Fiser a five?
25 A
I gave Mr. Fiser a five based on the NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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5237 1
answers he gave me at that point in time to the 2
questions.
3 Q
Could you be more specific than that as 4
you were earlier in your testimony?
5 A
I can read you the notes that I have here 6
on the page.
7 Q
Well, how about why don't you interpret 8
your notes the way you did when Mr. Slater asked you 9
the question? Or do you feel unable to do that?
10 A
Which question do you want me to look at?
11 Q
We're starting with question number one.
12 A
Again, the question was "What strengths do 13 you have?"
The answer that I had or the note that I 14 had -- and again these are not detailed notes.
These 15 are just some comments that I had made here.
16 I noted that strength was people skills to 17 get things done.
I had graded him a five.
- Again, 18 based on his response, I gave him a grade of five.
19 That's all I can say at this point.
20 Q
Again, the top of page 63 I asked you if 21 you could recall why you rated Sam Harvey a nine.
22 Your response was "Well, it would have been based on 23 his response to the question at the time."
Then I 24 asked you if you could recall anything else. You said 25 no.
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7 8
9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 5238 Earlier today when you discussed why you gave Sam Harvey a nine are you again saying that you were basing that testimony solely on your notes? You were interpreting your notes essentially.
A I graded Mr. Harvey based on the answer that he gave at the time.
Q So essentially what you're telling me today is that you can't remember anything about why you scored Mr. Fiser or Mr. Harvey the way you did other than what's in your notes.
A What I said was I graded him based on his response to the question he gave me at the time.
I made a few bullets on the sheet of paper, but bullets are not enough for me to recall his entire response to the question.
Q So you can't give any specifics.
A No.
MS. EUCHNER: Your Honors, I move to have Staff Exhibit 115 entered into evidence.
MR. SLATER:
No objection.
CHAIRMAN BECHHOEFER: Without objection, the Staff 115 will be admitted.
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5239 1
Exhibit 115, was received into 2
evidence.)
3 JUDGE YOUNG:
Have you given them to the 4
Court Reporter?
5 MS. EUCHNER:
Yes.
She's already marked 6
them.
Although did you mark them as admitted?
7 REPORTER:
I do it afterwards.
8 MS. EUCHNER:
Okay.
They were already 9
marked.
I don't know whether they've been tabbed as 10 admitted.
11 JUDGE YOUNG:
If you want to do it later, 12 you can do it later.
But just to save you --
13 REPORTER:
I have been.
14 JUDGE YOUNG:
Oh, you have been?
Okay.
15 So if it's not too much trouble.
16 REPORTER:
It's more trouble to hold up 17 the proceeding.
18 JUDGE YOUNG: Okay. Great. That's fine.
19 Go ahead.
20 CHAIRMAN BECHHOEFER: Are we tabbing them?
21 MS. EUCHNER: They're already marked, Your 22 Honor.
I have nothing further.
23 MR. SLATER:
No further questions.
24 CHAIRMAN BECHHOEFER:
Before we ask 25 questions, you don't have additional questions?
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MR. SLATER:
No, sir.
2 JUDGE COLE:
Just a couple of questions, 3
Mr.
Rogers.
We heard questions about your 4
qualifications in chemistry.
Do you recall those 5
questions, sir?
6 THE WITNESS:
Yes.
7 JUDGE COLE:
You indicated that a lot of 8
your chemistry training was associated with your 9
certification as an SRO and as a shift technical 10 advisor. What sort of chemistry training did you get 11 in preparation for those positions?
12 THE WITNESS:
Those classes were formal 13 classroom training in part of the overall course that 14 was provided by TVA.
I think it was about a 44-week 15 course. Two or three weeks of that was chemistry.
I 16 don't recall how many.
I think two weeks was 17 chemistry.
18 JUDGE COLE:
When you say "two weeks of 19 chemistry" is that eight hours a day for two weeks?
20 THE WITNESS:
Yes.
21 JUDGE COLE:
All right, sir.
Was the 22 chemistry of a fundamental nature or was it geared 23 specifically towards the technology as to just what 24 you needed to use in your job position were you to 25 function as an SRO or as a shift technical advisor?
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THE WITNESS:
It was geared toward power 2
plant operation. Chemistry plays a part in the power 3
plant operation of the primary and secondary side of 4
chemistry and how it's used and how it's controlled.
5 JUDGE COLE:
In your service on these 6
review boards, you have indicated that you served on 7
six or seven review boards.
8 THE WITNESS:
Yes, sir.
I don't remember 9
the exact number but in that neighborhood or maybe 10 even more.
11 JUDGE COLE:
The particular review board 12 that we talked about today, the one that involved Mr.
13 Fiser, began at noon and went until 6:00 or 7:00.
14 THE WITNESS:
Sometime after lunch and 15 then went until that evening, yes.
16 JUDGE COLE: With your other review boards 17 that you served on, do you recall what the starting 18 time was?
19 THE WITNESS:
Depending upon when the 20 selection manager set up the review board. Sometimes 21 they might be in the morning, sometimes in the 22 afternoon.
23 JUDGE COLE:
Well, the ones that you 24 served on, what were the times, sir?
Do you recall?
25 THE WITNESS:
They varied depending on NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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8 9
10 21 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 2 0 2 1 2 2 23 24 2 5 5242 what review board it was.
They weren't always at the same time.
There's no specific time for a selection review board to occur.
If for instance the maintenance manager was selecting a position, he might have picked his time at ten o'clock in the morning or he might pick two o'clock in the afternoon depending on what his availability and what the availability of the selection board were.
JUDGE COLE:
All right, sir.
But you served on six or seven.
What times did they start?
THE WITNESS:
Again, some started in the morning, some started in the afternoon.
I'm not sure what you're asking me because --
JUDGE COLE: Well, did most of them start in the morning and this one was an unusual time to start at noon?
THE WITNESS:
An afternoon SRB is not unusual.
It could happen.
I've sat on afternoon selection review boards and I've sat on morning selection review boards.
JUDGE YOUNG:
Would it be unusual to go into the evening?
THE WITNESS:
It was unusual to have five or six positions in one selection review board.
Typically you're selecting one position.
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selection review board deals with that one position 2
and that's all you deal with. It was unusual that you 3
went through a whole series of positions that you were 4
selecting for so we had a lot of candidates to cover.
5 That was the unusual part about that one.
6 JUDGE COLE: So it was rare to go into the 7
early evening for a review board.
8 THE WITNESS:
For that length of time.
9 JUDGE COLE:
All right, sir.
Thank you.
10 CHAIRMAN BECHHOEFER: Following up on the 11 timing question, I have a few questions about that.
12 From this schedule we have in Joint Exhibit 20 page 13 four, the schedule says that it starts at 12:00 for 14 board preparation and then it runs through 8:00 p.m.
15 Wouldn't it be somewhat unusual to have a review board 16 meeting scheduled to last at least until 8:00 p.m.
17 which I presume is after the normal work day?
18 THE WITNESS: Yes, sir. It is unusual for 19 review boards to go that long.
As I said, it was 20 because of the number of candidates and positions that 21 were to be interviewed.
Dr. McArthur being the 22 selection manager chose to do them all at one time.
23 I told him I could support him.
24 CHAIRMAN BECHHOEFER:
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10:00 a.m. and maybe have a break for lunch and resume 2
in the afternoon?
3 THE WITNESS:
Yes, sir.
4 CHAIRMAN BECHHOEFER: So that practice was 5
alsoo followed.
6 THE WITNESS: Yes, sir. Occasionally that 7
would occur.
8 CHAIRMAN BECHHOEFER:
I understand when 9
the particular review board was set up initially it 10 was set up with someone other than yourself.
Is that 11 correct? A Mr. Cox.
12 THE WITNESS: At the time I was not aware 13 of that.
14 CHAIRMAN BECHHOEFER:
I see.
Because we 15 have been told down in Chattanooga that it was 16 initially set up to include Mr. Cox.
His schedule 17 didn't permit him to serve at this late hour. A bunch 18 of questions were asked.
Why didn't they change the 19 hour2.199074e-4 days <br />0.00528 hours <br />3.141534e-5 weeks <br />7.2295e-6 months <br />? Why wasn't a different date chosen? A bunch of 20 questions along that line.
21 To my satisfaction, I never received a 22 very satisfactory answer.
But from what you're 23 saying, it was more or less up to, in this case, Dr.
24 McArthur who would have set the schedule and 25 determined that it should be followed. Am I correct?
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THE WITNESS: Yes, sir. Dr. McArthur set 2
the schedule and the time and asked me if I could 3
support that.
I said yes I could.
This was a couple 4
of days before the timeframe.
At the point in time, 5
I went down to the particular room and proceeded on.
6 Normally the selecting manager sets the time and the 7
place.
He confirms that the board members can be 8
there.
It's the typical process.
9 CHAIRMAN BECHHOEFER: I see. If the board 10 had initially been conceived of as not including 11 yourself but Mr. Cox, would you have known why?
Mr.
12 Cox apparently just couldn't meet the schedule.
Do 13 you know of any reason why the schedule would have 14 been adhered to, the starting at noon as stated here 15 rather than trying to change the schedule to try to 16 accommodate Mr. Cox's needs?
17 THE WITNESS:
I'm not aware of any of 18 those proceedings.
I was just asked to come in and 19 support him.
I was able to do so.
Being a peer with 20 Dr.
McArthur in the corporate organization, we 21 supported each other.
I was trying to support him in 22 his endeavor here.
So I'm not aware of any reasons 23 why he didn't accommodate Mr. Cox.
Does that answer 24 your question?
25 CHAIRMAN BECHHOEFER:
Yes.
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JUDGE YOUNG:
I wanted to clarify 2
something if I could with you related to some earlier 3
testimony. Do you recall any occasion where Mr. Fiser 4
back early on I guess, I'm not sure of the exact date, 5
but several years prior to the events that we're 6
talking about now whether he had ever come to you or 7
you had any discussion with him about the diesel fuel 8
oil tanks and a perceived problem with how they were 9
set up and how the recirculation --
10 THE WITNESS:
I don't not recall any 11 conversation particularly with Gary on that.
Do you 12 have any more details? I don't recall any particular 13 conversation associated with that.
14 JUDGE YOUNG:
I think he would have been 15 with Mr. Don Adams and told you that the diesel tanks 16 had not been recirculation properly and indicated that 17 he wanted to write a SCAR, significant corrective 18 action report, I think is the right language, with 19 regard to that. Do you recall any discussion with him 20 about that at any time?
21 THE WITNESS:
No, ma'am, I do not.
22 JUDGE YOUNG:
Thank you. Judge Bechhoefer 23 was suggesting would you like to see the transcript 24 where you describe that? Do you think that might help 25 you recall whether that happened?
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2 3
4 5
6 7
8 9
10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 5247 THE WITNESS:
I don't think it would.
I don't recall any particular conversation with Gary on that particular subject.
Is there a reference to any particular SCAR number or particular timeframe or anything 'like that in there?
JUDGE YOUNG:
I think there's an exhibit related to this.
Isn't there?
MR. MARQUAND:
There are several, Your Honor.
JUDGE COLE: You are aware of the problem with the sampling of the diesel tanks.
THE WITNESS:
I'm not aware of any problems now with the sampling.
JUDGE COLE: No. A previous problem where they were not in conformance with the ASTM testing procedures for sampling diesel tanks.
MR. DAMBLY: If it helps, it's TVA Exhibit 146.
It has Mr. Roger's signature in a couple of places.
THE WITNESS:
If I could refer back to a document, maybe that will help me.
JUDGE YOUNG:
It's one of the ones that's not on the original volume.
THE WITNESS:
What he's given me is TVA Exhibit 146.
It's a CAQR which is a corrective action NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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1 2
3 4
5 6
7 8
9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 5248 document at that timeframe back in it looks like 1989.
If you'll give me a moment to look at it if I can remember it.
JUDGE YOUNG:
Also, if you recognize the handwriting on there, you might indicate that.
THE WITNESS:
This appears to be a corrective action document associated with a technical specification that was in place at the time for a surveillance requirement sampling of the seven day diesel fuel oil storage tanks.
It appears that the issue was that the sampling was not consistent with the Sequoyah sampling methods.
This was written it looks like Don Amos who was a chemistry engineer at the time.
He has since retired from the company.
JUDGE COLE:
Did you say Don Amos or Don Adams?
I THE WITNESS: It looks like Amos. A-M-O-S is what it looks like.
It's the initiated by person.
JUDGE COLE:
You have my copy.
THE WITNESS:
Oh, I'm sorry.
It's A-M-O-S, Don Amos.
There was a Don Amos and there also was a Don Adams.
Don Adams still works for the plant.
Don Amos is retired.
JUDGE YOUNG:
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a time sequence.
I'm looking at the transcript for 2
June 11 on pages 2740 through 2748. Was there a plant 3
manager named Cal Vongrove?
4 THE WITNESS:
Cal Vondra? V-O-N-D-R-A I 5
believe is the way he spelled his last name.
6 JUDGE YOUNG:
When was he the plant 7
manager if you recall?
8 THE WITNESS: I'd have to go back and look 9
at some records.
I don't recall off the top of my 10 head.
We had a number of plant managers through a 11 period of years there.
12 JUDGE YOUNG:
Okay.
13 THE WITNESS:
He came to us from another 14 plant, Hope Creek, and he stayed with us a short 15 period of time.
16 JUDGE YOUNG:
Do you think it could have 17 been at the same time as this Exhibit 146 was done 18 which was, it says September 1989?
Do you think it 19 could have been around that same time?
20 THE WITNESS:
It could have been.
21 MR.
DAMBLY:
Mr. Rogers, do you see page 22 17, 18 and 19 of that document?
23 THE WITNESS:
Yes.
24 MR.
DAMBLY:
Is that your signature?
25 THE WITNESS:
Yes.
Those are my NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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documents. I was part of the Plant Reporting Section 2
as the supervisor.
Those were my responsibilities.
3 JUDGE YOUNG: At that point and if Counsel 4
can help me here also, do you recall what Mr. Fiser's 5
position was?
6 THE WITNESS:
In '89?
7 JUDGE YOUNG:
Yes. The reason I'm asking 8
is I would like to get clear for myself who or what 9
persons in what positions would be the ones who would 10 ordirarily sign these things.
11 THE WITNESS:
- Well, the section that 12 Counsel over here mentioned, pages 17, 18 and 19 of 13 this exhibit, that was the responsibility of a 14 different group than chemistry which was the 15 responsibility of the Plant Support Superintendent 16 group which I was in charge of which included a Plant 17 Reporting Section and a couple of other sections.
18 They were responsible for dealing with operability 19 requirements and recording the licensee event reports 20 to the NRC. This evaluation here was documenting that 21 evaluation done by an engineer that worked for me at 22 the time.
23 JUDGE YOUNG:
And the engineer was?
24 THE WITNESS:
It looks like James Kent.
25 JUDGE YOUNG: Where is that signature, on NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE.. N.W.
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5251 1
which page?
2 THE WITNESS:
Page 17, 18 and 19.
3 JUDGE YOUNG: Okay. So do you recall what 4
Don Adams' position was at that time?
5 THE WITNESS: Don Adams and Don Amos both 6
worked in the chemistry department.
7 JUDGE YOUNG:
Mr.
Fiser was their 8
supervisor.
9 THE WITNESS:
Gary was the chemistry 10 supervisor.
They would have worked for him when he 11 was chemistry supervisor.
I don't recall if he was 12 chemistry supervisor specifically in '89 or not.
It 13 was in that timeframe though.
14 JUDGE YOUNG:
If he was their supervisor 15 and let's assume that he was, was there any standard 16 practice as to whether the supervisor or the people in 17 Don Amos' and Don Adams' positions would have been the 18 one to sign?
19 THE WITNESS:
Do you have a copy of this 20 in front of you?
21 JUDGE YOUNG:
Yes.
22 THE WITNESS: If you go down to the bottom 23 of the first page there, it shows the prepared by and 24 a supervisor. You can see Don Amos' printed name and 25 then Don Adams signed as a supervisor. Typically the NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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way you do these particular documents here is a person 2
prepares it and then a supervisor signs it, initials 3
it.
Don Adams evidently was signing here as the 4
supervisor for whoever that was or he was the 5
supervisor.
I'm not sure which.
6 JUDGE YOUNG:
Was there a hierarchy such 7
that Don Amos could have reported to Don Adams and Don 8
Adams could have reported to Mr. Fiser?
9 THE WITNESS:
Yes, ma'am.
Typically in 10 the chemistry section and there was the lab section 11 which had chem lab supervisors.
Then there was the 12 technical section.
That, technical section had a 13 W supervisor.
They would report to the chemistry 14 managers. So you had two reporting places. Don Adams 15 was the technical supervisor for a long time. He may 16 have been supervisor at this point in time.
Since he 17 signed this, I would have to assume that he was.
18 JUDGE YOUNG: So even if Mr. Fiser was Don 19 Adams' supervisor at that time by virtue of being the 20 chemistry supervisor, would it have been normal or 21 abnormal for Mr. Fiser to have signed or not signed 22 it?
23 THE WITNESS:
Mr. Adams could sign this 24 document byj procedure if he was the direct supervisor 25 of the individual who prepared it.
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JUDGE YOUNG: Does this tell you anything 2
- about whether Mr. Fiser would have known about this or 3
had any role in it just from looking at it?
Is there 4
anything that would indicate that?
5 THE WITNESS:
I don't see anything that 6
jumps out at me that says he was made aware of it or 7
he signed this document unless you can point something 8
out. I don't see anything here. Typically department 9
managers like that are made aware of these types of 10 issues, high visibility issues.
11 JUDGE YOUNG: Do you recall anything about 12 this in terms of having any discussions with Mr. Adams 13 and Mr. Fiser expressing any hesitance on your part to 14 filling out the corrective action report?
15 THE WITNESS:
I don't recall any 16 particular conversations.
I'm not aware of any 17 hesitancy on my part to complete the document.
I'm 18 required to do so by procedure.
19 JUDGE YOUNG:
Thank you.
20 (Judges confer.)
21 JUDGE YOUNG: Any follow-up questions, Mr.
22 Slater?
23 MR. SLATER:
Yes, Your Honor.
24 REDIRECT EXAMINATION 25 BY MR. SLATER:
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Q Mr. Rogers, just a follow-up to one of 2
Judge Bechhoefer's questions about the number of 3
interviews that were done by your SRB in July 1996.
4 Do you recall during that timeframe a number of major 5
reorganizations going on at TVA?
6 A
In '96, there were major reorganizations 7
across TVAN in that timeframe including my own 8
organization.
9 Q
There were a number of positions to be 10 filled during that time.
11 A
Yes there was.
12 Q
These positions were being evaluated 13 through the SRB process.
Is that correct?
14 A
Yes. TVA used the selection review boards 15 for management positions at that timeframe.
16 Q
You also indicated that this selection 17 with Mr. Fiser and Mr. Harvey was a little unique. Do 18 you remember that? A little different.
19 A
As far as the number of people being done 20 at that time, yes.
21 Q
What's the typical number of positions in 22 your experience that are filled by SRBs at any one 23 sitting?
24 A
Normally at one sitting as I mentioned 25 earlier we do one position typically at a time.
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5255 1
may have four or five candidates that you have to 2
interview, but it's typically one position at a time.
3 Q
Just to clarify one additional point. As 4
a SRB member, is it your job to evaluate the answers 5
that are provided to the questions asked?
6 A
Yes.
The job is to grade the individual 7
based on the answers provided at the time that it was 8
given.
9 Q
The role of the SRB is not to take into 10 consideration past work history and past work 11 experience.
12 A
No.
The way the process works as I 13 understand the process is the selecting manager has a 14 position that is vacant.
He works with the human 15 resources department and gets approval to put the 16 vacancy announcement out for bid if you would.
Then 17 candidates apply on the vacancy announcements.
All 18 the applicants then are put together by the human 19 resource department.
20 They put a spread sheet together for you 21 for the selecting manager.
Then from that spread 22 sheet and the resumes or whatever is provided, the 23 vacancy announcement application sheet and anything 24 that's attached to it by the applicant is given to the 25 selecting manager.
He then goes through there and NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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sets ip what are the minimum qualifications of the job 2
and any other qualifications that he believes are 3
required for that position.
4 Then he goes through and screens the 5
candidates.
If individuals do not meet the screening 6
criteria then they're screened out.
The ones that 7
screen in if you would are the ones that typically are 8
interviewed for the position.
Then from those that 9
are selected to be interviewed, the selecting manager 10 sets up a selection review board.
Usually it's made 11 up of peers.
It could be peers of the individual 12 that's going to be in that position or it could be 13 ones who he may report to, not directly but a higher 14 level position in other words.
15 Those people come together and ask the 16 questions that the selecting group manager has put 17 together for that particular position. The selection 18 review board members grade the individual based on the 19 responses to the question.
That information is 20 typically given to the selecting manager.
21 That selecting manager uses that 22 information along with the other details that he has, 23 that is the resumes and the vacancy announcement and 24 the work history of the individual and the performance 25 evaluations and whatever.
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5257 1
and consulting with the human resource department 2
makes his selection based on the best candidate for 3
the position. That's typically how the process works.
4 Q
One last question.
As to the other SRBs 5
on which you have served where those SRBs were filling 6
only one vacancy, was that because those typically are 7
assembled to one position that has been vacated 8
through retirement or promotion?
9 A
Yes. Normally only in your group you may 10 have a position where somebody moves off to another 11 job or leaves the company or whatever it might be.
12 That's the position you need to fill.
Typically in 13 the organization you have attrition of some type 14 whether it be retirement or whatever and then you fill 15 those positions.
It's typically one at a time that 16 you fill.
17 In this particular case here, we had a 18 reorganization where for instance in my organization 19 we had two groups and that whole department was 20 reorganized down to one group. They all received RIF 21 (PH) notices. We all had to reapply on jobs that were 22 put on the board for the remaining organization that 23 was left.
The same thing occurred in the group that 24 Wilson McArthur had as well.
25 Q
When you became the manager of your group, NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N W.
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did you have a number of positions that you filled?
2 A
Yes. During the '96 reorganization, as I 3
said, the group that I was in was two groups.
It 4
boiled down to one.
I had to apply on my job.
I had 5
to sit in front of a selection review board and was 6
interviewed and was selected for the job.
7 When I was selected for that job, my 8
responsibility was to fill the positions that worked 9
for me.
I had eight or nine positions under me.
I 10 had to fill those.
I used the selection review board 11 process for those eight or nine positions as well. I 12 did those on an individual basis.
13 Q
Thank you.
14 JUDGE YOUNG:
Who was on your SRB that 15 selected you?
16 THE WITNESS:
I'm sorry. I don't remember 17 specifically.
I could probably dig up the 18 documentation because I'm sure it's there somewhere.
19 Typically it was peers, possibly somebody from the 20 plant, probably somebody from corporate organization.
21 It was dependant on who was available and who I 22 thought were the right type of people that this 23 particular person might interface with. For instance, 24 I had --
25 JUDGE YOUNG:
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5259 1
that selected you.
2 THE WITNESS:
Oh, I'm sorry.
I thought 3
you meant for the ones that worked for me at the time 4
who did I have for those.
Who was on my selection 5
review board?
I don't remember for sure.
6 JUDGE YOUNG:
Who was the selecting 7
official?
8 THE WITNESS:
I don't remember.
It may 9
have been Tom McGrath, but I don't remember. I'd have 10 to go back and look at the records to be sure.
11 JUDGE YOUNG: And you don't remember who 12 was on the board that selected you.
13 THE WITNESS:
No.
14 JUDGE YOUNG:
Thanks.
15 MR. SLATER:
No further questions.
16 MS. EUCHNER:
Nothing further.
17 CHAIRMAN BECHHOEFER: Mr. Rogers, you are 18 excused.
We thank you for your appearance.
19 THE WITNESS:
Thank you.
Here are your 20 documents.
21 (Witness excused.)
22 JUDGE YOUNG: Did you all get those back?
23 I'd say come back at 1:30 p.m.
24 (Judges confer.)
25 JUDGE COLE:
We're off the record.
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CHAIRMAN BECHHOEFER:
Off the record.
2 (Whereupon, at 12:25 p.m., the above-3 entitled matter recessed to reconvene at 1:52 p.m. the 4
same day.)
5 CHAIRMAN BECHHOEFER:
Okay.
Back on the 6
record.
Mr. Marquand or Slater.
7 MR. MARQUAND: Yes, Your Honor. TVA calls 8
Tom McGrath.
9 CHAIRMAN BECHHOEFER: Mr. McGrath, welcome 10 back.
11 THE WITNESS: Thank you.
12 CHAIRMAN BECHHOEFER:
You're still under 13 oath.
14 THE WITNESS:
I understand that.
15 MR.
MARQUAND:
- And, Your Honor, we 16 recognize that Mr. McGrath was called as part of the 17 Staff's case in chief, and that we examined him at 18 that time. We are calling him as part of our case in 19 chief, and we're also calling him to respond to 20 testimony that was placed in the record after his 21 testimony back in, I guess it was April.
22 CHAIRMAN BECHHOEFER: April, I think.
23 MR. DAMBLY:
I guess just to start things 24 off then, I thought he was called as part of their 25 case in chief the last time, where they went in NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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5261 1
through all the NSRB Minutes and a whole bunch of 2
other stuff that we didn't.
I mean, if they want to 3
recall him for rebuttal purposes or whatever, I don't 4
have a problem, but I don't think we need to start 5
over with his testimony.
6 MR. MARQUAND: I don't intend to do that.
7 MR. DAMBLY: We already went through that 8
last time.
9 MR. MARQUAND: We hope to have him in and 10 out of here before the end of the afternoon.
11 JUDGE YOUNG:
If any specific instances 12 arise that cause you to raise specific objections, 13 just raise them at that point.
14 MR. MARQUAND:
There will, obviously, be 15 some overlap with what he testified previously, but 16 I'm hoping to add some additional insights into his 17 thought processes, especially as to matters as to 18 which there's been testimony since the last time he 19 testified.
So, obviously, there's some overlap, but 20 that's only necessary to set the stage, or direct all 21 the parties' attention to the subject matter we're 22 discussing.
23 JUDGE YOUNG:
Understood.
24 MR. MARQUAND:
Thank you, Your Honor.
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BY MR. MARQUAND:
2 Q
Mr. McGrath, I have placed before you 3
Joint Exhibit 44.
It is a September 20, 1999 letter 4
from the Nuclear Regulatory Commission, signed by 5
Loren Plisco, to John Scalice of TVA.
And if you 6
would turn to page, the page that's Bate's marked AB-7 7
of that document.
It should be the last page of that 8
document.
9 According to the transmittal letter, that 10 is a summary of the Office of Investigation's report.
11 And according to the first page of the letter, that 12 summary forms the basis for the NRC's conclusion of an 13 apparent violation.
And I want to direct your 14 attention to some specific language in the summary of 15 the OI report.
16 Do you see in the second paragraph of the 17 summary, the last sentence that says, "In his DOL 18 complaint" -
Mr. Fiser -
"the employee named as 19 parties to his discrimination, the individuals who 20 served as committee member, Nuclear Safety Review 21 Board, and Chairman NSRB in 1993."
22 A
Yes, I see that.
23 Q
And you understand that that reference to 24 the Chairman of the SRB is you.
25 A
That's correct.
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Q And if you would also look at the fourth 2
paragraph of this summary. You see where it says, "In 3
late 1995 and early '96, the two individuals who 4
served as NSRB Committee Member and Chairman in '93, 5
and who were named as culpable parties in the 6
employee's '93 DOL complaint, were placed as RADCON 7
Chemistry Manager, and Manager of Operation Support."
8 Do you see that?
9 A
Yes.
10 Q
And you understand that the reference to 11 the Chairman in '93, and the reference to the Manager 12 of Operation Support refers to you.
13 A
Yes, that's correct.
14 Q
Now if you would turn over a couple of 15 more pages to Joint Exhibit 49.
If you will turn to 16 the second page of that document.
In the top 17 paragraph, in the very last sentence of that top 18 paragraph, do you see where it says --
this is a 19 letter, by the way, directed to you.
Correct?
20 A
Correct.
21 Q
Indicating that the NRC was issuing a 22 Notice of Violation against you.
Correct?
23 A
That's correct.
24 Q
All right.
And in this top paragraph, 25 they're talking about the pre-decisional enforcement NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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3 4
5 6
7 8
9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 5264 conference.
And do you see the last sentence that says, "You also clarified that the NRC's September 20, 1999 letter was inaccurate in stating that you were named as culpable party to Mr.
Fiser's
'93 DOL Complaint."
Do you see that?
A Yes.
Q So you understood --
you understand now that the NRC was saying we were wrong.
You weren't named as a culpable party in Fiser's
'93 DOL complaint.
A That's correct.
Q And you've also seen Fiser's
'93 DOL complaint, and do you understand that he didn't name you.
Is that correct?
A That's correct.
Q All right.
Now aside from the fact that the Staff's assertions were just wrong about your involvement in his '93 complaint, I want to ask you about your involvement in some other matters.
MR. DAMBLY:
I'm going to object to the question as mischaracterizing what's in here, and what was already testified to.
It didn't --
it said he wasn't named.
The Staff is not in error that he was
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it's Joint Exhibit 27.
And we heard the tape played 2
about Mr. McArthur's statements of Mr. McGrath's 3
stuff, so I don't think it's fair to say the Staff was 4
in error in relying on apparently the DOL statement in 5
the second complaint, that he was named as a party in 6
the first complaint.
He wasn't named as a party, but 7
he certainly was culpable in the first complaint. And 8
that's just a mischaracterization of what he just went 9
through.
10 JUDGE YOUNG:
You've clarified that.
11 Questions aren't evidence, obviously, anyway, but was 12 that part of the question that was pending, or that 13 referred back to the question?
14 MR. DAMBLY: That was part of the question 15 he was just asking him.
16 MR. DAMBLY:
Well, if counsel wants to 17 argue about it, I'm going to inquire of counsel, my 18 question specifically referred to Joint Exhibit 44, 19 the summary of the OI report that said in his 20 complaint, in his DOL complaint the employee named as 21 parties to his discrimination McArthur and McGrath.
22 Now if counsel wants to show me where my statement is 23 inaccurate, or where the OI report is correct in that 24 regard, I would like to know that at this time.
25 JUDGE YOUNG: Mr. Dambly, as I understood NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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what you said, you were objecting to characterizing 2
the 1993 complaint as not involving Mr. McGrath. What 3
you wanted to clarify was that even though Mr. McGrath 4
was not named, that the Staff did not agree that he 5
was not involved.
6 MR. DAMBLY:
That was exactly my point, 7
and that's not what is being covered in these 8
documents.
These documents, the Staff admitted yes, 9
he wasn't specifically named. And they were in error 10 in the OI report when they said he was.
That's 11 different than he was not involved.
12 MR. MARQUAND: I didn't --
I don't believe 13 I said that.
If I did --
14 JUDGE YOUNG:
Well, why don't we just 15 rephrase the question, and limit it to what --
16 MR. MARQUAND:
I don't think I asked a 17 question yet, and there was an objection. My question 18 is, I said I would like to discuss, and ask Mr.
19 McGrath about his involvement in certain matters.
20 BY MR. MARQUAND:
21 Q
Mr. McGrath, did you have involvement in 22 the decision to rotate Mr. Fiser, or to send Mr.
23 Fiser from his position as Sequoyah Chemistry 24 Superintendent to the Corporate Chemistry position in 25 1992?
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A No, I had no involvement in that decision.
2 I was not even aware that that decision was made until 3
after the rotation had occurred.
4 Q
All right.
You just mentioned the 5
rotation.
Let me ask you about that.
You're aware 6
that there was a rotation between Gary Fiser and Bill 7
Jocher. Did you have any involvement in the decision 8
with respect to that rotation?
9 A
No, I had no involvement in that.
I 10 didn't become aware of it until after it actually 11 occurred.
12 Q
In the fall of 1992 --
you're aware that 13 we had testimony, you're aware that Mr. Fiser went 14 downtown and was the Acting Corporate Chemistry 15 Manager at the beginning, at the inception of this 16 rotation.
You're aware of that today.
17 A
I'm aware of that today, yes.
18 Q
All right. And subsequently there's been 19 testimony that in the fall of '92, Mr. Fiser was 20 removed from that Acting Corporate Chemistry Manager 21 position, and placed in a Chemistry Program Manager 22 position.
Did you have any involvement in that 23 decision, or in his removal from that position as 24 Acting Corporate Chemistry Manager?
25 A
No, I had no involvement in that.
In NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N W.
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- fact, in my jobs I had at that time, I didn't even 2
normally deal with Corporate Chemistry.
I don't think 3
I was even aware it happened.
4 Q
In the fall of '92, Mr. Fiser received a 5
performance appraisal, and that's when merit increases 6
and bonuses were handed out.
And Mr.
Fiser has 7
complained that his performance appraisal was lower, 8
and he received a lower merit increase than he thinks 9
he was entitled to.
Did you have any involvement with 10 his performance appraisal in the fall of '92?
11 A
I had no involvement with his performance 12 appraisal.
In fact, in all the time I've been at TVA, 13 I've only had involvement in the performance 14 appraisals of individuals who were direct reports to 15 me.
16 Q
Did you have any involvement in the 17 decision of how much, or whether to lower the merit 18 increase or bonus that Mr. Fiser received in the fall 19 of '92?
20 A
No, I did not.
And again, that is not 21 something that I would have involvement in, unless the 22 person --
I was a supervisor of the individual.
23 Q
All right.
In the late fall/early winter, 24 December '92, there was testimony about a conversation 25 between Robert Beecken, who was then the Sequoyah NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N W.
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Plant Manager, and Mr. Fiser. We've seen a transcript 2
or purported transcript of that, and there is a 3
recording of that that's been entered in the record.
4 And in that conversation, Mr. Beecken informed Gary 5
Fiser of various problems he perceived with Sequoyah 6
Chemistry, and informed Mr. Fiser that because of 7
those perceived problems, he did not think that Mr.
8 Fiser should return to Sequoyah as a Chemistry 9
Superintendent.
Do you have any knowledge of the 10 basis for Mr. Beecken's decision in that regard?
11 A
No, I don't.
I was not aware that there 12 was such a conversation.
I was not aware that Mr.
13 Fiser was under consideration for resuming in the 14 position of Chemistry Manager at Sequoyah.
15 Q
So did you have any make any 16 recommendations one way or the other to Mr. Beecken 17 about whether Mr. Fiser should be allowed to return in 18 that position?
19 A
No, I did not.
I didn't make any 20 recommendations or any opinions, nor did Mr. Beecken 21 ask me for any.
22 Q
All right.
There has been testimony in 23 this proceeding that in the --
in June/July '93 time 24 frame, Charles Kent was having discussions with Gary 25 Fiser about a job as the Sequoyah Chemistry Manager.
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Did you have any recommendations or input into Mr.
2 Kent's decision not to select, or recommend, or place 3
Mr. Fiser in that position?
4 A
No, I did not. Again, I was not aware he 5
was being considered for the position.
I did not 6
provide any input to Mr. Kent, nor did Mr. Kent ask 7
for my opinion.
8 Q
When Mr.
Fiser testified in this 9
proceeding, one of the judges, and it may have been 10 Judge Young, asked Mr. --
Mr. Fiser was discussing 11 issues he was involved with at Sequoyah, and was 12 suggesting that Mr. Beecken had some animosity towards 13 him for those concerns.
14 In response to Judge Young's question -
I 15 believe it was Judge Young. And I apologize if it was 16 one of the other judges.
One of the judges asked Mr.
17 Fiser how he knew that Mr. Beecken had animosity 18 towards him. Mr. Fiser testified about a problem with 19 diesel generator fuel tanks several years before. And 20 the problem had to do with the fact that the sampling 21 procedure didn't comply with Sequoyah's tech specs or 22 the ASTM standards.
23 Now what I'd like to ask you is, did you 24 ever discuss with Sequoyah plant management or Mr.
25 Beecken, whether Gary Fiser should be disciplined for NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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his involvement, or lack of involvement in that issue?
2 A
No, I did not discuss that with Mr.
3 Beecken or anyone else in Sequoyah management.
In 4
fact, I did not discuss even that topic, I mean the 5
topic of the diesel tank sampling with any of the 6
Sequoyah management.
7 COURT REPORTER:
I'm sorry.
You're 8
breaking up.
9 THE WITNESS:
I said I did not discuss 10 that particular problem with Mr. Beecken.
I did not 11 discuss with him anything about Mr.
Fiser's 12 involvement.
And, in fact, I did not discuss that 13 particular issue, which I think was in an LER, with 14 anyone in Sequoyah's management.
15 BY MR. MARQUAND:
16 Q
All right.
You're aware that when you 17 assumed the position of Acting Manager, General 18 Manager of Operation Support that Mr. Fiser and 19 Chandra, and Sam Harvey, and Sorrelle had a position 20 description of Chemistry and Environmental Program 21 Manager.
22 A
Yes. The one correction I'd have to that, 23 I think Mr. Sorrelle you're referring to here is David 24 Sorrelle.
I don't think he was any longer on the 25 staff at that time.
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Q But you did have people with Chemistry and 2
Environmental Specialists or Program Manager 3
positions?
4 A
That's correct.
5 Q
All right. There's been testimony by Mr.
6 Fiser that he didn't perform environmental duties, or 7
if he did, that they were 5 percent or less of his 8
assignments. As the manager of the organization which 9
he was in, did you have an expectation that those 10 environmental functions that were in that position 11 description, in those position descriptions would be 12 performed?
13 A
Yes.
It was the responsibility of the 14 Chemistry and Radiological Control Manager, who was 15 Mr. Grover at the time, to get the responsibilities of 16 his department done.
Exactly how he divided those 17 among his employees was his decision.
18 Q
Did Mr. Grover or anyone else ever tell 19 you that the environmental responsibilities of the 20 Chemistry and Environmental group was not being done?
21 A
No, no one informed me of that.
22 Q
Now I'd like to turn to 1996 in the 23 matters that we're here about; that is, the selections 24 for the PWR Chemistry Program Manager position.
25 Before that selection was made, were you informed that NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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Tresha Landers had made some allegations against Sam 2
Harvey?
3 A
No, I was not.
4 Q
When did you learn about that?
5 A
Wilson McArthur told me about that, I 6
believe it was several weeks after the selections had 7
been made.
And if I could add, at the time, he 8
characterized it to me as allegations which were not 9
substantiated, but as part of the review, a decision 10 had been made that it would be useful for Mr. Harvey 11 to take some training related to inter-personal 12 relationships.
I don't recall exactly what the 13 training was called.
14 Q
Prior to the selections taking place, were 15 you aware that Ron Grover had put a memo in, or sent 16 a memo to personnel for inclusion in personnel's file 17 on Mr. Harvey, documenting that such an allegation had 18 been made?
19 A
No, I was not aware of such a memo.
20 Q
Did Mr.
Grover tell you about the 21 allegations?
22 A
No, he did not.
23 Q
Did he tell you that he had sent a memo to 24 Sam Harvey's file?
25 A
No, he did not.
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5274 How and when did you learn about that
.f 1
2 3
4 5
6 7
8 9
10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Q
memorandum?
A I did not learn about that memorandum until some of the preparation for this case years afterwards.
Q Prior to the selections taking place, were you aware that Dave Voeller, the Chemistry Manager at Watts Bar, had some concerns about Sam Harvey's inter-personal skills?
A No, I was not aware of such a problem.
Q Did Mr. Grover ever acquaint you with the fact that he thought Mr. Harvey had some problems with inter-personal skills?
A No, he did not.
Q At some point did you learn of a telephone conversation between Sam Harvey and Dave Voeller, in which Sam Harvey conveyed to Mr.
Voeller the impression he would be selected --
he would be the one selected for the PWR Chemistry Program Manager position?
A I did not learn of that discussion until several years later.
I don't recall at this time whether it was --
I may have been asked about it during the OI investigation, or it may not have been until the preparations for the enforcement conference.
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I don't remember exactly which one, but it was several 2
years later.
3 Q
Do you have --
4 CHAIRMAN BECHHOEFER: Are you referring to 5
6 THE WITNESS:
7 CHAIRMAN BECHHOEFER:
NRC OI.
Okay.
8 BY MR. MARQUAND:
9 Q
Do you have any knowledge why Sam Harvey 10 may have felt that he would be the individual who was 11 selected?
12 A
No, I do not.
13 Q
Did you ever give Mr. Harvey any reason to 14 think that he would be the one that was selected?
15 A
No, I did not.
16 Q
Did you give anyone else any reason to 17 think that Sam Harvey may be the one who should be 18 selected, or would be selected?
19 A
No, I did not.
20 Q
In June of '96 when Mr. Harvey, when Mr.
21 Fiser approached Ed Boyles and threatened to file a 22 Department of Labor complaint if a VPA was posted for 23 the Chemistry Program Manager position, and when Mr.
24 Boyles told you of that threat, did Mr. Boyles tell 25 you that Gary Fiser claimed that the new position was NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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exactly the same as the position he received as a 2
result of the '93 settlement?
3 A
Mr. Boyles informed me that Mr. Fiser felt 4
that if we posted it, we would be in violation of the 5
settlement of his prior DOL case.
I would say 6
primarily with regard to what the position was.
7 Q
All right.
Did you make an attempt to 8
compare the position descriptions?
9 A
No, I did not. Not knowing what the prior 10 DOL case was, and those are not documents that are 11 made, the case, the settlements of them, readily 12 available. At my request, Mr. Boyles referred that to 13 the personnel in Human Resources who handled the DOL 14 cases, and they along with, I believe, assistance from 15 the Office of General Counsel, made that review to see 16 if there was anything -- whether it be the position or 17 anything else we were doing that would be in 18 violation, or inconsistent with that settlement.
19 Q
Did the review by Human Resources and 20 Labor Relations, and the Office of General Counsel, 21 satisfy you that posting the job would not be 22 inconsistent with the settlement?
23 A
Yes.
24 Q
Throughout this proceeding, there have 25 been questions whether or not it might be possible for NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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a manager to write a position description in such a 2
way, that the intent or the new position description 3
would have to be posted for competition?
Do you 4
understand my preface?
With respect to the PWR 5
Chemistry Program Manager job, did you write the 6
position description for that job?
7 A
No, I did not write that position 8
description.
9 Q
Did you edit it?
10 A
No, I did not edit it.
11 Q
Did you even seen it before the selections 12 took place?
13 A
No, I did not see it, and it was 14 consistent with similar level positions throughout the 15 Operation Support Group, which at that time was being 16 reorganized, and there were a dozen or more new 17 positions.
And with the exception of the positions 18 which would be direct reports to me, I did not review 19 any of those position descriptions.
20 Q
Did you give instructions on what should 21 be included, or not included on that new position 22 description?
23 A
I gave no direction specific to any one 24 position description, no directions at all on the 25 Chemistry ones.
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5278 1
generally was that the position descriptions needed to 2
reflect the job of the individuals.
We had had a few 3
problems on some of the older position descriptions 4
throughout the entire organization, that they were 5
written very vaguely, and very generally, and were not 6
a good representation of what the actual 7
responsibilities of the position were.
8 Q
Did you make the decision to post the VPA 9
for that position?
10 A
Well, all of the positions that were 11 impacted by the reorganization in Operation Support, 12 and those revised position descriptions were sent to 13 Human Resources for review.
Human Resources came 14
- back, and based on their review, said that all of 15 those positions needed to be advertised.
We did not 16 discuss the basis for any -
the only one at that time 17 that I questioned was one position, where I knew there 18 was only one individual in the company qualified, but 19 they told me the rule still said you had to post it, 20 so we went ahead and posted it.
21 Q
Do you know who the Human Resource who 22 made the decision to post those jobs was?
23 A
The decision was conveyed to me by Ed 24 Boyles, and I believe Ed Boyles made that decision 25 based upon the recommendation of his staff.
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- sorry, I just drew a blank of the name of the 2
individual who did most --
Ben Easley, I believe, was 3
the person who at least did those reviews for him, is 4
my understanding.
5 Q
I show you TVA Exhibits 55 and 56.
Mr.
6 McGrath, I will represent to you that TVA Exhibit 55 7
are position descriptions and vacant position a
announcements for positions created in Operation 9
Support in the 1996 reorganization.
And I will also 10 represent to you that TVA Exhibit 56 are the position 11 descriptions for the positions that were eliminated in 12 the 1996 reorganization of Operation Support.
13 Now we've already had considerable 14 testimony about the fact that Wilson McArthur was 15 placed in the Rad Chem Manager position without a VPA 16 being posted, or competitive selection occurring. Are 17 you aware of any other new positions created in 18 Operation Support in '96 that were not competitively 19 bid?
20 A
All of the others, except the position you 21 referred to with Mr. McArthur were competitively bid.
22 Q
And to the extent that my record keeping 23 is complete, then TVA Exhibit 55 shows all of these 24 new positions and the VPAs for those jobs.
Is that 25 right?
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