ML021760036
| ML021760036 | |
| Person / Time | |
|---|---|
| Site: | Browns Ferry, Watts Bar, Sequoyah  |
| Issue date: | 08/06/1998 |
| From: | Fiser G NRC/OI, Tennessee Valley Authority |
| To: | |
| References | |
| -RFPFR, 50-259-CIVP, 50-260-CIVP, 50-296-CIVP, 50-327-CIVP, 50-328-CIVP, 50-390-CIVP, ASLBP 01-791-01-CIVP, EA-99-234, OI-298-013, RAS 3933 | |
| Download: ML021760036 (81) | |
Text
1 1 UNITED STATES OF AMERICA 2 NUCLEAR REGULATORY COMMISSION 3 ------------------------- x 4 In the Matter of:
5 INTERVIEW OF GARY FISER : 01 Investigation No. 298-013 6 (CLOSED) 7 8
9 NRC Technical Training Center 10 5746 Marlin Road 11 Chattanooga, Tennesse 12 13 Thursday, August 6, 1998 14 15 The above-entitled matter came on for 16 interview, pursuant to notice, at 12:56 p.m.
17 18 BEFORE:
19 20 DIANE BENSON. Special Agent 21 DARRELL WHITE, Specal Agent 22 23 24 25 ANN RILEY & ASSOCIATES, LTD.
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2 1 CONTENTS 2 WITNESS EXAMINATION 3 GARY FISER 51 4
5 EXHIBITS 6 NUMBER IDENTIFIED 7 [NONE.]
8 9
10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 ANN RILEY & ASSOCIATES, LTD.
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3 1 P RO C E ED I NG S 2 [12:56 p.m.]
3 MS. BENSON: For the record, today's date is 4 August 6, 1998. The time now is approximately 12:56.
5 I am Special Agent Diana Benson of the NRC Office 6 of Investigations, Region II, Atlanta, Georgia, and I'll be 7 conducting this interview.
8 During this proceeding, which is being recorded 9 for transcription, the NRC Office of Investigations will 10 conduct an interview of Mr. Gary Fiser. This interview 11 pertains to 01 Investigation Number 298-013. The location 12 of this interview is the NRC Technical Training Center, 5746 13 Marlin Road, Chattanooga, Tennessee.
14 Others in attendance at this interview with Mr.
15 Fiser is Darrell White, Special Agent, Office of 16 Investigations, Region II, Atlanta, Georgia.
17 Mr. Fiser, if you would raise your right hand, 18 please?
19 Whereupon, 20 GARY FISER, 21 the Interviewee, was called for examination by the Nuclear 22 Regulatory Commission Office of Investigations and, having 23 been first duly sworn, was examined and testified as 24 follows:
25 EXAMINATION ANN RILEY & ASSOCIATES, LTD.
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4 1 BY MS. BENSON:
2 Q If you will, for the record, provide me with your 3 full name, spelling your middle and last name.
4 A Okay. It's Gary, G-a-r-y, Lynn -- that's L-y-n-n 5 Fiser, F-i-s-e-r.
6 Q Okay. And your date of birth?
8 Q Okay. And your social security number.
9 A 10 Q Okay. And your current address.
11 A .
12 13 Q Okay. And your home phone number, please?
14 A -gig_
15 Q Okay. I provided you a copy of Section 1001 of 16 Title XVIII of the United States Criminal Code and asked you 17 to read this particular section. Do you understand it after 18 having read this Title?
19 A Yes, ma'am.
20 Q Okay. All right.
21 Prior to the interview, I explained to you that 22 what we would be talking about in this investigation is the 23 DOL and ERA complaint that you filed in 1996, and that 24 during the discussion, I would ask you to identify certain 25 people that you're working with at the plant.
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5 1 But I guess first what I would like to do is have 2 you give me a little bit of background on your professional 3 career in the nuclear field prior to beginning here in the 4 Chattanooga area.
5 A Okay. I started to work in 1973 -- I think it was 6 September of 1973 -- at Arkansas Power and Light, Arkansas 7 Nuclear 1, as a chemist HP, and spent 14 years there, worked 8 up to the radiochemistry manager, and in approximately 9 September of '87, left Arkansas Power & Light to begin work 10 with TVA, Tennessee Valley Authority, as a corporate 11 chemistry and environmental manager, and my -- I was 12 assigned to basically help the chemistry program at Sequoyah 13 Nuclear Plant in Soddy-Daisy, Tennessee.
14 Q Can you tell me what level you were? Was that a 15 PG -
16 A Yes.
17 Q -- level?
18 A Actually, at that stage in '87, they referred to 19 it as an M6 position.
20 Q And what did M6 stand for?
21 A Management level 6 is what I'm guessing at.
22 Q All right.
23 A If I recall correctly. They later changed those 24 to PG something or other.
25 Q And excuse me for not having background, but what ANN RILEY & ASSOCIATES, LTD.
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6 1 does PG stand for?
2 A I'm going to guess again. Pay Group.
3 Q Okay.
4 A They just changed it from one designation to 5 another.
6 Q Is that a supervisory level?
7 A Yes, it is.
8 Q Okay.
9 A Management. As I said, the M stood for management 10 level 6.
11 Q Okay.
12 A So it was a supervisory position.
13 Q Okay. I'm sorry. I didn't mean to interrupt you.
14 And then after Soddy-Davis?
15 A I stayed at the corporate chemistry job until 16 approximately April of '88, at which point in time I became 17 the chemistry manager -- I think at the time, they called it 18 the chemistry superintendent -- at Sequoyah. I moved from 19 my corporate chemistry position in downtown, Chattanooga to 20 the site position as chemistry manager and remained 21 chemistry manager until approximately 1992, at which point, 22 in about March of '92, I think it was, I was rotated from 23 the chemistry manager position at Sequoyah to the corporate 24 chemistry manager, downtown Chattanooga, taking over for 25 Bill Jocker, and Bill moved to my position at Sequoyah as ANN RILEY & ASSOCIATES, LTD.
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7 1 the chemistry manager.
2 Now, that remained in effect for approximately a 3 year, and then in -- and these are approximate dates because 4 I don't have my notes in front of me, but in approximately 5 March of '93, I was told that my position at Sequoyah had 6 been determined to be surplus, and so I had no position, and 7 they rotated Bill Jocker from Sequoyah back to my position 8 downtown and I was placed in the employee transition 9 program, and I stayed there for roughly a year, at which 10 time -- that would have been in March, April of '94 -- I was 11 selected for a chemistry, let's see, chemistry specialist 12 position -- these titles changed all the time; I can't 13 remember exactly what it was -- specialist position back 14 downtown, corporate chemistry, and my plant that I was 15 responsible for in '94 was Watts Bar and helping them get 16 ready to start up.
17 At that time, I was working for Ron Grover, who 18 was the corporate chemistry manager, and that -- about three 19 months later, they changed that position from a chemistry 20 specialist to a chemistry and environmental specialist and 21 the title changed, nothing else changed.
22 Now, that -- I'm guessing again -- would have been 23 maybe June or July of '94.
24 Q You're saying the title changed there, but nothing 25 in your job function.
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8 I A Well, they added -
2 Q But did they -
3 A They added -
4 Q -- rewrite the job description?
5 A They added the environmental functions into the 6 job description, but we still had people that were there in 7 the environmental arena and they continued to do those 8 functions. So I never did the functions.
9 They did add them to our job description, but 10 there were others in the group that continued to do those 11 job functions. So, and this is a key point, I know, for the 12 record, we never did those. So essentially, it never 13 changed even though they did change the title. That was the 14 case until 196, so it had been two years later.
15 They decided to reorganize and get rid of some 16 positions, and that's when we had to interview for our jobs 17 again, which is basically the exact same job that I was 18 doing -- nothing changed -- and I was not selected for that 19 job.
20 So I was then -- we had the choice of either going 21 into another like in services organization for a period of 22 time and we could look for a job or go ahead and retire, and 23 I elected to retire, and that would have been in September 24 -- September the 30th of 1996.
25 So I think that's -
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9 1 Q Yes, and I appreciate the fact that you identified 2 positions, basically what we're looking at right now, -
3 A Yeah.
4 Q -- instead of going into events.
5 Really, the next portion of the interview, what I 6 would like to do is indicate that what we're looking at is 7 your 1993 DOL complaint which affected your 1996 D0L 8 complaint, or led to, possibly led to.
9 A Okay.
10 Q And some of the individuals that we'll be going 11 over, discussing today, what I would like to do is go ahead 12 and identify them right now, go over the different positions 13 they held during the 1993 time frame, and then again during 14 the 1996 time frame, and have you identify those positions 15 as you remember them that they held during those time 16 frames, okay?
17 A Okay.
18 Q The first one -- individual I would like to 19 identify is Thomas McGrath, and the spelling, for the 20 record, last name is M-c-G-r-a-t-h.
21 What position did he hold during the '93-94 time 22 frame?
23 A If I remember correctly, he was the chairman of 24 the NSRB.
25 Q Okay. The NSRB standing for?
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10 1 A Nuclear Safety Review Board.
2 Q Okay. Do you know whether that was his only job 3 function?
4 A I do not.
5 Q Okay. But you know that's a position that he held 6 at that time?
7 A Yes, I do.
8 Q Okay. And how about in July of '96? Do you 9 recall what he was doing then?
10 A In July of '96, he had -- some time previous to 11 that, he had taken over as -- and again, the exact title, 12 I'm not sure of, but -- let's see. Due to a death in the 13 organization, he was filling in for -- and a temporary 14 position, I think -- over the chemistry environmental health 15 physics -
16 Q Would that be called the Operations Support 17 Division?
18 A I think so, but again, -
19 Q Okay.
20 A -- I'm not absolutely sure.
21 Q Okay. And, okay, that was in July of '96, and 22 that's for Mr. Thomas McGrath.
23 In '93, it was the Nuclear Safety Review Board and 24 possibly in an acting position in '96 as the manager of the 25 Operations Support Division.
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11I 1 A Uh-huh.
2 Q And in '93, what -- were you underneath his 3 position at all -
4 A No.
5 Q -- as far as him being -
6 A No.
7 Q Okay. And what about in '96, when he became -
8 A Yes.
9 Q -- acting, were you -- what position did you hold 10 underneath him?
ii A Okay. In 1996, I was reporting directly to Ron 12 Grover, and Ron Grover reported directly to Tom McGrath.
13 Q Okay. That's some time in '96?
14 A That's correct.
15 Q Okay.
16 A Or possibly '95. I'm not sure exactly what time 17 that happened.
18 Q So he would be like a second-line supervisor. The 19 first line -
20 A Yes. He was in my direct line of supervision.
21 Q Okay. And the next person that we will look at in 22 '93-94 time frame is Wilson McArthur.
23 A Uh-huh.
24 Q Spelling of his last name is M-c-A-r-t-h-u-r.
25 Do you know what position he was holding during ANN RILEY & ASSOCIATES, LTD.
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12 1 the '93-94 time frame?
2 A In the '93-94 time frame, he was the corporate rad 3 protection manager.
4 Q Okay. And did he -- in '93-94, what connection 5 did he have under Mr. McGrath, if anything at all? Did they 6 work-7 A Yes. Wilson was a member. Now, McGrath was the 8 chairman of the NSRB. Wilson McArthur was one of the 9 individual members of the NSRB. So they did work together 10 in that regard.
11 Q Okay. But he also held another position besides 12 being a member of the NSRB?
13 A Correct.
14 Q Okay. In July of '96, do you know what position 15 Mr. McArthur was holding?
16 A In July of '96. Sometime -- it may have been 17 subsequent to July; I'm not sure of the exact date again 18 -- he once again became the chemistry -- the -- let's see, 19 what was I going to say. The rad-con chemistry manager.
20 Q Okay.
21 BY MR. WHITE:
22 Q Does that fall under McGrath?
23 A Yes.
24 BY MS. BENSON:
25 Q Okay. Is that next to Ron Grover or replacing Ron ANN RILEY & ASSOCIATES, LTD.
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13 1 Grover?
2 A Replacing.
3 Q Okay.
4 A Ron's job went away sometime in that time frame.
5 Q Okay. So Mr. McArthur became your first-line 6 supervisor at some point -
7 A That is correct.
8 Q -- during 1996? Okay.
9 And then we've already identified Mr. Grover, Ron 10 Grover, and Grover is G-r-o-v-e-r, and you were -- were you 11 working for him during the '93-'94 time frame?
12 A Yes, ma'am.
13 Q Okay.
14 A Well, not '93. '93, I was in employee transition.
15 Q Okay.
16 A But '94, '95 and a good portion of '96, I was 17 working for him, before Wilson took over his job functions.
18 Q Okay. And some of these may go outside, actually, 19 of the direct reporting chain here for a minute, but the 20 next one that I would like to identify is Mr. Philip 21 Reynolds, R-e-y-n-o-l-d-s.
22 What position did he have?
23 A He was the head of personnel.
24 Q Okay.
25 BY MR. WHITE:
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14 1 Q So he would be in the same line -- or not same 2 line, but same -
3 A No. He was a direct report to the CEO or head of 4 nuclear power, which would be Oliver Kingsley.
5 Q Would he be equal with McGrath?
6 MS. BENSON: No, he would be up a level -
7 THE INTERVIEWEE: Let's see. I think McGrath was 8 also a direct report to Oliver Kingsley.
9 MS. BENSON: Oh, okay.
10 THE. INTERVIEWEE: So Reynolds and McGrath would 11 have been on the same -
12 MS. BENSON: Line 13 THE INTERVIEWEE: -- level, at least in the 14 reporting chain.
15 MS. BENSON: Okay.
16 BY MS. BENSON:
17 Q And Mr. Jack Cox, C-o-x, what position did he have 18 in 1996?
19 A In '96, Jack was the rad-chem manager at Watts Bar 20 Nuclear Plant.
21 Q Okay. Was that an equal position to yours that 22 you were holding at corporate?
23 A Oh, no. It would have been well above mine.
24 Q Okay. And how did you fall -- what relationship 25 did you have with him? I mean -
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15 1 A At that point in time, as I have already stated, I 2 had responsibility to help get the Watts Bar chemistry 3 program ready for start-up, and I worked with Dave Voeller a 4 lot, who was the chemistry manager at Watts Bar.
5 Q Okay.
6 A Dave reported to Jack Cox.
7 Q Okay. Mr. Voeller is -- the spelling of his last 8 name is?
9 A V-o-e-l-l-e-r.
10 Q So you were in your position during the '96 time 1l frame -- correct me if I'm mistaken, but you were at a 12 corporate level -
13 A That's correct.
14 Q -- providing services to -
15 A That's correct.
16 Q -- the different plants, in particular, Watts Bar 17 18 A That's correct.
19 Q -- Nuclear Plant? Okay.
20 And Mr. Cox and Mr. Voeller were at the chemistry 21 sites at Watts Bar?
22 A That's correct.
23 Q Okay. John Corey, C-o-r-e-y?
24 A John was Jack's equivalent at Browns Ferry.
25 Q Okay. Charles Kent?
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16 1 A Charles Kent was Jack's equivalent at Sequoyah.
2 Q Okay. So we've got all three of those plants 3 covered, the Watts Bar, Browns Ferry and Sequoyah, -
4 A Uh-huh.
5 Q -- with Mr. Voeller, Mr. Corey and Mr. Kent. And 6 the spelling of Kent's last name is K-e-n-t.
7 BY MR. WHITE:
8 Q Who was at Browns Ferry?
9 A John Corey, C-o-r-e-y.
10 Q And he was Mr. Cox's -
11 A Equivalent. That's correct.
12 Q And they were referred to as the rad-chem 13 managers?
14 A They were over rad protection and chemistry.
15 BY MS. BENSON:
16 Q Okay. All three of those individuals?
17 A Yes.
18 Q Rad-chem managers.
19 BY MR. WHITE:
20 Q. And then Dave Voeller's would be -
21 A Chemistry manager.
22 Q Who would be his at Browns Ferry?
23 MS. BENSON: No, we won't even go into this -
24 BY MR. WHITE:
25 Q Okay. And then you had Sequoyah. Who was at ANN RILEY & ASSOCIATES, LTD.
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17 1 Sequoyah?
2 A Charles Kent.
3 Q And his position would be Cox, Corey and Kent?
4 A That's correct.
5 So these guys, Cox, Corey and Kent, were directly 6 responsible for the chemistry programs at the various sites 7 and key people.
8 BY MS. BENSON:
9 Q Sam Harvey, what position did he hold? And it's 10 H-a-r-v-e-y.
11 A Uh-huh. Sam was my equivalent from downtown, so 12 he was a chemistry and environmental specialist, as was I, 13 and his plant -- the plant that he was assigned to was 14 Sequoyah.
15 Q How many positions does chemistry and 16 environmental protection -- at the corporate level, how many 17 positions were there?
18 A It depends on what time again we're talking about.
19 Early in '96, I'm thinking there were five positions, not 20 including Ron Grover. His would make the sixth.
21 Q Okay.
22 BY MR. WHITE:
23 Q And Mr. Fiser, which one did you oversee, which 24 plant?
25 A Watts Bar.
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18 1 Q All right. Watts, Sequoyah -
2 A And then the chemistry and environmental 3 specialist, that would have been over -- that was over 4 Browns Ferry, was Chendra, and his last name is 5 Chendrasekaran. I'll spell it: C-h-a-n-d-r -
6 C-h-e-n-d-r-a-s-e-k-a-r-a-n, I think.
7 BY MS. BENSON:
8 Q Okay. And he was over -- he provided -- he was at 9 the corporate level -
10 A Yes.
11 Q -- and he provided services to Browns Ferry?
12 A That's correct.
13 Q Okay.
14 A Now, we also had people that were dealing 15 specifically almost exclusively with environmental 16 protection, and that would be Diedra Nida, D-i-e-d-r-a 17 N-i-d-a, and Tresha Landers, T-r-e-s-h-a, Tresha, Landers, 18 L-a-n-d-e-r-s. These two people were pretty much 19 exclusively dealing with environmental issues. Their jobs 20 were subsequently either done away with or combined or 21 something in mid-'96.
22 Q Okay. So the environmental positions went away in 23 '96 that they were filling?
24 A Well, they both lost their jobs, I'll put it that 25 way.
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19 1 Q Okay.
2 A There is a person that was on the rad protection, 3 radiation protection side of the house working directly for 4 Wilson McArthur, and I think he absorbed some of their 5 duties.
6 Q Okay.
7 A So I can't say it all went away, but -
8 Q The function didn't go away, but perhaps it was 9 taken up by other -
10 A Some of the functions were.
11 Q -- positions. Okay.
12 I don't see that we've gone over this name, but 13 how about David Goetcheus? It's G-o-e-t-c-h-e-u-s.
14 A Correct. David was over the steam generator 15 maintenance group -- totally separate from us.
16 Q Okay. Was he at the corporate level?
17 A Yes.
18 Q Okay.
19 A And he reported -- he was a direct report to Tom 20 McGrath, late -- in '96, anyway. I don't know how it 21 started out. Everything changes so much.
22 Q McGrath.
23 So Ron Grover and Wilson McArthur were also direct 24 reports to Mr. McGrath; is that correct?
25 A That's correct.
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20 1 Q Okay.
2 A Now, very late on -- I'm talking in maybe July, 3 August, September time frame, somewhere in there, I think 4 Ron started kind of reporting to Wilson in a lot of 5 respects, although he still went directly to McGrath due to 6 this agreement that they had or letter that was written. So 7 for a very short time, depending on who you talk to, I'm 8 sure some people would say Ron reported to Wilson McArthur, 9 but if you talk to Ron, he would probably say, I reported 10 directly to Tom McGrath.
11 Q Okay.
12 BY MR. WHITE:
13 Q And where did Reynolds come in?
14 A Reynolds was a direct report to Oliver Kingsley, 15 the head of nuclear power.
16 Q And so would McGrath?
17 A Yes, that's correct.
18 BY MS. BENSON:
19 Q And what position did Haywood Rogers, 20 R-o-g-e-r-s, have? Do you recognize that name?
21 A Yes. I'm not absolutely certain. It seems like 22 -- I'm not sure -- I'm not sure I can answer that.
23 Q Okay.
24 A It's just been too long.
25 Q And James Boyles, B-o-y-l-e-s?
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21 1 A Uh-huh. Was one of the personnel managers who 2 reported to Phil Reynolds.
3 Q Okay.
4 BY MR. WHITE:
5 Q And what was Mr. Reynolds' department?
6 MS. BENSON: Personnel.
7 THE INTERVIEWEE: He's the head of personnel.
8 Again, I'm not absolutely sure of the title.
9 BY MS. BENSON:
10 Q And Ben Easley, E-a-s-l-e-y?
11 A Uh-huh. Ben Easley reported to Ed Boyles, I 12 think. I'm not -- I'm pretty sure that's correct.
13 Q Was it James or Ed Boyles; do you recall?
14 A Ed.
15 Q Okay.
16 A Now, it may be James E. or something like that. I 17 don't know.
18 Q Okay. All right.
19 Basically, I think those are some of the people 20 that we'll be discussing today, and I just wanted basically 21 to get their names and positions out in the open now so we 22 can refer to this if we need to to understand what you might 23 be telling us.
24 If you can, I know that I provided you with a copy 25 of your sequence of events, and what I'm interested in ANN RILEY & ASSOCIATES, LTD.
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22 1 basically having you explain to us today is the results of 2 your 1993 DOL complaint, who all wa involved in that 3 complaint, and the events that subsequently happened after 4 that, the events leading to your 1996 DOL complaint.
5 A Okay.
6 Q That's a lot of information, but we're here to 7 listen.
8 A All right. Do you want me to refer to this or 9 just shoot from the hip?
10 Q Well, why don't you just take it off the top of 11 your head, and if you -
12 A Okay.
13 Q -- have difficulty remembering anything, you can 14 just refer back to that.
15 A Again, the general sequence, I pretty well 16 remember; the specific dates, I do not. It's just been too 17 long now since it all happened.
18 Basically in '93 -- actually, this would have been 19 '92 leading up to that -- and I think this is where I got 20 into serious trouble with TVA. My boss at that time was a 21 person by the name of Bill Lagergren, L-a-g-e-r-g-r-e-n. He 22 was the operations manager. He reported directly to the 23 plant manager, Rob Beacon.
24 Q And you were in what position?
25 A I was the chemistry manager. So in other words, ANN RILEY & ASSOCIATES, LTD.
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23 1 Bill Lagergren was over chemistry; he was over maintenance; 2 and he was over operations.
3 We were getting prepared for an INPO evaluation 4 and as part of that preparation, we were told to go out and 5 take the INPO criteria -- in other words, what are they 6 going to look at -- and do a self-evaluation, take that 7 criteria and go through it and do our own evaluation and see 8 if, in advance, we could pick up, oh, there are some areas 9 where we could improve or might not be as tidy as they 10 should be -- in other words, get ready.
11 Q Can I ask you one thing?
12 A Sure.
13 Q Can you explain for the record what INPO stands 14 for?
15 A I'm sorry. INPO is Institute of Nuclear Power 16 Operations, based out of Atlanta, and the various nuclear 17 plants belong to the Institute of Nuclear Power, and they 18 have very experienced personnel in all areas of the plant 19 which come and evaluation the plant to make sure that you're 20 not just meeting the basic requirements, but that you are a 21 top performer, basically.
22 They exceed the letter of the law. It's one thing 23 to do everything to satisfy NRC, but it's another thing to 24 satisfy INPO because they go way beyond the requirements 25 that you guys specify.
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24 1 Okay. Does that -
2 Q Yes. Thank you.
3 A Okay. So we were told to get prepared and do a 4 self-evaluation. The entire site did this, every 5 department. My explicit instructions from Bill Lagergren 6 were as follows: Gary, take the criteria and do a 7 self-evaluation. You are to be extremely critical. If the 8 INPO guidelines say go from A to B using a certain path, and 9 you go from A to B using a different path but you arrive at 10 the same thing, write that down. I want to know everything 11 that's different. I want to be extremely self-critical so 12 that and then we can get together as a group and say, that's 13 ridiculous, just throw that out, or maybe we need to look at 14 at this area.
15 So we were extremely self-critical, and I think we 16 came up with, oh, gosh, 130 perhaps nitpicky areas where 17 they said do it one way and we did it another or something 18 like that, and we wrote ourselves up. And he was extremely 19 pleased with the job I did, and he said, you did exactly 20 what I wanted you to do and we'll look at these. And I 21 think out of all of those issues, there were only five or 22 six that we really needed to address and fix them before 23 INPO came in and evaluated us, so that we really had a 24 sharp-looking organization.
25 Well, when I submitted -- and what we were told at ANN RILEY & ASSOCIATES, LTD.
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25 1 that time was that this is going to be low-level, we'll just 2 keep this in our desk and we'll look at it and we'll check 3 these things off the list and, you know, there's not going 4 to be a huge report or anything like that that has to come 5 out of it.
6 Well, the plant vice president at that time was 7 John LaPoint, last name L-a-P-o-i-n-t. When he found out 8 that I had discovered that there 100-and-some-odd areas 9 where we were not in explicit compliance, even though I feel 10 like we were in compliance with INPO, he was livid. There 11 is no way to understate that.
12 He called me in on a Saturday and one of my direct 13 reports, Dr. Don Adams, a PhD in radiochemistry, and for 14 hours1.62037e-4 days <br />0.00389 hours <br />2.314815e-5 weeks <br />5.327e-6 months <br />, he grilled us, and I am not underestimating, he 15 grilled us, he cussed us, he did everything but throw us out 16 of his office, and this can be independently verified 17 through Don, who still works at Sequoyah.
18 But at the end, after our lengthy chewing-out 19 session, he told me to put every one of those items 120- or 20 30-some-odd -- I don't recall how many -- into TROI. That's 21 the computerized tracking list where it takes an act of 22 Congress just about to get something entered and off that 23 list. It's -
24 Q Do you know what that stands for?
25 A TROI, Tracking and Recording Of -
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26 1 Q Is it incidents?
2 A No. I can't tell you. It's been too long now.
3 It's just been too long. It's just a computerized 4 punch-list, tracking list.
5 What it is, you state the problem and then you 6 give the date that it was found and the date that you're 7 going to have -- where you're going to have the resolution 8 to it, the date you're going to have it completely done, 9 proceduralized, and everything is finished, and then you 10 have to state what you're going to do to fix it.
11 So we had 120 or 30 of these things in TROI.
12 Okay. I knew when he made that statement that I was in 13 trouble because TROI, this list of problems, is published 14 throughout basically the entire nuclear organization. Well, 15 the NSRB, Nuclear Safety Review Board, of which Tom McGrath 16 is a member and the chairman, found out that we suddenly 17 went from a few to 100-and-something, so his -- he was not 18 very happy, nor was John LaPointe, as I have already 19 mentioned.
20 So they came out and did a -- I think they were 21 basically -
22 Q Who -- I'm sorry -
23 A The NSRB -
24 Q Okay.
25 A -- came out after INPO came in and did their ANN RILEY & ASSOCIATES, LTD.
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27 1 evaluation. By the way, when INPO came in and evaluated me, 2 they found no problems, no concerns, and that was the second 3 evaluation period in a row in which I had been chemistry 4 manager in which they had found no problems, no concerns.
5 So what I'm telling you is yeah, we entered 6 100-some-odd items into TROI, but they were nitpicky things 7 and we fixed them. There were no problems, or if there 8 were, we fixed them.
9 Q And were those 130 problems brought to the 10 attention of INPO at all? Do you recall?
11 A I am sure that -- I am almost certain that they 12 knew about them.
13 Q Because it would be published in the TROI and it 14 would be -
15 A Yes. Yes. They would -
16 Q They would have access to -
17 A I am certain that they had access to that. I 18 would be shocked if they did not. I'm pretty certain that 19 they did.
20 So they came in no concerns at all in chemistry.
21 Okay. So my boss, Bill Lagergren, immediately after the 22 INPO evaluation, I think about my first assignment after 23 that was -- he was very pleased and he said, I'm going to go 24 manage the next outage, and he said, I would like for you to 25 come and help me, you've done extremely well, we're proud of ANN RILEY & ASSOCIATES, LTD.
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28 1 1 what you've done in chemistry, I want you to come and help 2 me manage the next outage. This will be a good opportunity 3 for you to show what you're really made of, and in an area 4 outside of chemistry. Yeah, everybody knows you can do 5 chemistry, but let's go do something else, and I think that 6 it will really enhance your career.
7 He said, of course, if you go and you screw up, 8 then you're just -- the worst thing that could happen is we 9 would throw you back into chemistry and you would rot there.
10 Now, he wasn't being mean, he was being honest. And I think 11 he was genuinely wanting to promote my career with TVA.
12 So I left the chemistry organization, not my 13 title, but just in job function, to go help manage this 14 outage for the better part of a year, nine or ten months, 15 something like that.
16 While I was away, of course, NSRB, Tom McGrath and 17 others, had this long list of problems, so they started 18 really looking hard at chemistry and saying, this place is 19 out of control. Why haven't they done anything, why do they 20 have this long list, when in fact, I had another list of 21 items that we were working on that was probably twice as 22 long as that one, but you have to prioritize it, you have to 23 -- you can't fix everything at once. You have to get the 24 critical items and work down it.
25 So it seems like while I was away, I got into all ANN RILEY & ASSOCIATES, LTD.
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29 1 kinds of trouble in chemistry, and when I rotated back into 2 my chemistry manager position after the outage, NSRB was 3 scheduled to come out in January -- that would have been of 4 '93 -
5 Q And when were you gone for the outage, do you 6 recall?
7 A I'll give you approximate dates. Following the 8 INPO evaluation in '92, and that was sort of in midyear, 9 July time frame, and I was gone -- maybe it was April -- and 10 I was gone until basically January. So that would have been 11 April or May of '93 until -- of '92 until January of '93.
12 So eight or nine months, something like that. I don't 13 recall.
14 But when I got back into my position, I was 15 getting phone calls from Wilson McArthur while I was up in 16 the control room helping manage the outage, you know, making 17 statements like, boy, you know, I'm getting reports that 18 chemistry is just out of control and there's no head on the 19 horse and -- I'm kind of paraphrasing here -- and, you know, 20 we've got some real issues to work out here.
21 I said, what the heck, INPO just came in, no 22 findings and no concerns. I'm not there right now, there 23 are some people filling in for me in my absence, and it just 24 appeared to me that things were really getting in disarray, 25 not as far as chemistry itself, but as the perception.
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30 1 So I didn't really fully understand why, but it 2 seemed like after you come out of your second INPO 3 evaluation in a row with no findings and no concerns, people 4 should begin to believe that you're getting your act 5 together, but it sort of came apart.
6 Well, when I got back into my chemistry job in 7 January, NSRB came through, and it was Tom McGrath and a 8 fellow by the name of Peterson, Tom Peterson, who was a 9 consultant that NSRB had hired with, quote, experience in 10 chemistry or something, which I don't think he had much, but 11 that was what his -- or radioactive effluence or something 12 like that.
13 Well, they came to my office, and in front of my 14 staff, Tom McGrath, Wilson McArthur and Tom Peterson, and we 15 had discussions and it lasted for a long time -- I'm 16 thinking a couple of hours -- and there were issues that 17 they were raising and we were telling how we had handled it 18 or what we had done.
19 While I was away in outage management, one of the 20 things that I had instituted, although it wasn't really me 21 -- when I got on board, they were doing daily graphs of 22 various chemistry parameters, and I sort of took that over 23 and enhanced it quite a bit, and we were generating on the 24 order of 50-plus graphs a day for various chemistry 25 parameters. That's a lot of work, I'm not kidding you.
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31 I While I was away, they had computer problems and 2 that thing was shut down for a few weeks. I'm not sure 3 exactly how long. But one of the first things I did when I 4 got back into the chemistry position was get the computer 5 issues resolved, and we started generating the trends again.
6 McGrath and Peterson were very upset with the fact 7 that they were not generating these graphs, as was I. One 8 of the things that they had demanded that I do was put in 9 procedure that I would do these 50-some-odd graphs every day 10 and they meant every day, they meant Saturday, they meant 11 Sunday, they meant Christmas, they meant every day.
12 Q Is that an industry-wide program that everybody is 13 doing?
14 A I was generating at that time more graphs than any 15 nuclear plant in the world. Nobody -- and I even looked at 16 them, and I said, well, first of all, I can't do it, because 17 on Monday when we come in, we have to get all of that 18 information for Saturday and Sunday, and then Monday comes 19 in and you have a bunch of information to manually input 20 into the computer, because it was all manual at that time.
21 It may not be now, but at that time, it was a manual. And I 22 couldn't even get them out on a Monday, you know. It was 23 Tuesday before I could get them out.
24 But be that as it may, I was generating more than 25 any nuclear plant in the country, certainly and probably in ANN RILEY & ASSOCIATES, LTD.
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32 1 the world, and I said -- and they said, I don't care, I want 2 it in procedure, and I said, well, if I write that into a 3 procedure, I'm violating the procedure. I cannot do it. It 4 is a physical impossibility with the hardware and software 5 that I have in 1992, '3, to do that. It's impossible unless 6 you give me a lot more people.
7 As I was saying, it would be impossible with the 8 number of people that I had and the technology at that time 9 to do that and to get it out everyday. So if I put that in 10 the procedure, I am guaranteeing that I'm going to be in 11 violation of procedure, so I said no, I can't do it.
12 Well, they were livid. I think, in looking back 13 on it now, that NSRB, Tom McGrath in particular, was on a 14 witch hunt. I mean, I don't know any other way to say it.
15 He was upset with the fact that I had entered all of this 16 information into TROI and that there were, quote, so many 17 problems out there and that I had documented them and put 18 them into TROI. And I think he was on a mission to remove 19 me. I truly honestly believe that.
20 As a matter of fact, after that, when I refused to 21 put it in procedure because it would have been an instant 22 violation, I could not have lived with it, they just kind of 23 stormed out of the room, and then next thing I heard, my 24 plant manager called me in and said these -
25 Q And who was that?
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33 1 A That was Rob Beacon again. Called me in and said, 2 well, what the heck happened? He used a lot stronger 3 language than that. But he said, these guys came out saying 4 that you were uncooperative and you needed to be removed, I 5 needed to fire you, basically. I'm paraphrasing here 6 because it's been too long. And I told him exactly what had 7 happened and what I had said, that I could not put in 8 procedure what they had demanded.
9 I think that really sealed my doom for -- before 10 the NSRB and Tom McGrath in particular, and Tom McGrath, 11 remember, reports directly to Oliver Kingsley. So I'm sure 12 I didn't do myself any favors there.
13 Here's the problem. The problem is, it's one 14 thing to have issues and problems in a chemistry program.
15 Just get out there and fix them.
16 But if you use the corrective action process and 17 you document it, and you put it into TROI, like we are 18 required by law to do, then you get a lot of exposure, and 19 instead of somebody coming up like Bill Lagergren did and 20 saying, Gary, man, you did exactly what I wanted you to do, 21 I am proud of you, I want you to go help me manage the 22 outage and we're going to help your career, instead of that, 23 you get yourself in trouble. And I was in trouble. I 24 didn't realize it, but I was in trouble at that time because 25 I had done exactly what I was required to do by law -- put ANN RILEY & ASSOCIATES, LTD.
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34 1 it into TROI. And then you get a lot of publicity that you 2 don't want.
3 That, I think, sealed my doom. That is what would 4 have been -- would have come forward had the previous NRC 0I 5 investigator, Jim Vorse, I think that was his name, if he 6 had done his job, you know, I had all this information, but 7 he never came back to me, never answered a phone call, never 8 answered a letter, never answered a fax. I don't know how 9 he arrived at his conclusion. But had he ever done what he 10 said he was going to do, this would have come to light. It 11 didn't.
12 So the rest sort of is history, and then the swap 13 was arranged, and then they got rid of me and then a day or 14 two later, they got rid of Bill.
15 Q Are we talking 1993 time frame right now?
16 A Yes, ma'am.
17 Q Okay. Where they got rid of you in 1993?
18 A Yeah, the first time.
19 Q Okay.
20 A The first time.
21 Q So when did -- at what point did you file your DOL 22 complaint?
23 A Well, let's see, it was in -- I think it was March 24 of '93 that I was placed in their employee transition 25 program. So it would have been in approximately April or ANN RILEY & ASSOCIATES, LTD.
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35 1 May that I filed my first complaint with the Department of 2 Labor.
3 Q Okay. And at that time, McGrath was with the 4 NSRB?
5 A Yes.
6 Q And McArthur was where he was when you went to 7 corporate, at the corporate level?
8 A At that time -
9 Q He was over with -- assisting on NSRB.
10 A He was assisting with NSRB. At that time, he may 11 have had both chemistry and environmental -- I'm sorry -
12 chemistry and rad protection. I'm not sure because he had 13 -- it was an on again, off again, on again type thing.
14 Q A simple explanation needed here.
15 A Okay.
16 Q As far as the NSRB, is he still TVA?
17 A Yes.
18 Q Okay. So McGrath in his position as the chairman 19 of NSRB is still an employee of TVA?
20 A Yes.
21 Q Okay. He had no control over you in your position 22 in '93 or '94 other than -
23 A Correct.
24 Q --. coming in for-25 A That is correct.
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36 1 Q -- the review? Okay. And then going and talking 2 to your supervisor regarding -
3 A Yes.
4 Q -- the incident in your office. And who else was 5 in the office at the time? Was it -- when he came in with 6 the NSRB, Mr. McGrath and Anderson, the consultant, who else 7 was with him?
8 A You mean Peterson.
9 Q Peterson, yes.
10 A At that time, when they got up and left rather 11 suddenly, it was -- at that time, it was only Tom Peterson 12 and Tom McGrath. Wilson McArthur had gone out to take a 13 phone call; he was not in -
14 Q Okay. But he was in there previous to that.
15 A Yes.
16 Q I mean, -
17 A That's correct.
18 Q -- he was during that review that they were -
19 A That's correct.
20 Q How did that ever resolve itself? I mean, what 21 they were asking you to do or what they wanted you to do?
22 Did you just not have to comply and write that procedure for 23 yourself?
24 A Well, it was shortly thereafter that I was rotated 25 out to the corporate chemistry position. So I was sort of ANN RILEY & ASSOCIATES, LTD.
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37 1 out of the loop as far as resolving it. But there's no way 2 anybody could write in a procedure that they were going to 3 do this every day -
4 Q Right.
5 A -- and comply with it -
6 Q Okay.
7 A -- because of personnel problems and -- not hiring 8 enough people to put it in and not having them there on the 9 weekends and not having essentially a back-up computer to 10 help them in case something went down.
11 Q And the first complaint, they settled -- filed 12 with DOL was settled by TVA.
13 A Yes, ma'am.
14 Q And how was that settled?
15 A It was settled because I -- they basically paid me 16 some money which covered expenses and finding a job and 17 attorney's fees and things like that, and also they offered 18 me a job working then for Ron Grover, out from under Wilson 19 McArthur or Tom McGrath. None of those players were there.
20 And basically making some compensation for a poor 21 performance review -
22 Q Okay.
23 A -- that was given to me by Wilson against his own 24 wishes and desires. He did not feel -- he felt like I had 25 deserved a good evaluation, but he was supposedly forced to ANN RILEY & ASSOCIATES, LTD.
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38 1 give me a marginal.
2 Q You're talking about Wilson McArthur?
3 A Uh-huh.
4 Q He was writing your evaluations?
5 A Uh-huh. When I rotated to the corporate position 6 back in '83, and I was then reporting directly to Wilson 7 McArthur.
8 Q Okay.
9 A And Bill Jocker of course came out to Sequoyah to 10 take my place.
ii Q Okay. So the subsequent position that they gave 12 you in the settlement, you went out from underneath Wilson 13 and started working for Ron Grover.
14 A That's correct.
15 Q Okay. Now I understand. Okay.
16 And from the date of that last settlement up until 17 the next complaint that you filed, can you just kind of give 18 us an overview, what was happening there?
19 A Yes. Of course, I was working for Ron Grover.
20 Shortly after I began working for Ron Grover, his boss took 21 another position and a person by the name of Don Moody took 22 over as the -- what would you call it? -- the operations 23 support manager. Don Moody -- Ron Grover was then reporting 24 to Don Moody, which was fine. There were no problems.
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39 1 with the sites and good relationship with management and 2 with Ron.
3 Don had cancer and died, and after his -- well, as 4 a matter of fact, while he was going back and forth to the 5 hospital for radiation treatments, et cetera, they put Tom 6 McGrath in his position.
7 Q At the Operations Support?
8 A Yeah.
9 Q Okay.
10 A On an interim level or acting. And that got my 11 attention because I was concerned that, gosh, what if Don 12 didn't pull through and what if, what if, what if they put 13 him in that position permanently. I said, if they do, I'm 14 in trouble because he had already been actively involved in 15 my removal at Sequoyah because of finding and documenting 16 these problems and standing up to him on some ridiculous and 17 unfounded demand that we place in procedure something that 18 we could not comply with.
19 I knew that because I had stood up to this man, 20 that it would probably not go well for me. Well, that's 21 what happened. Unfortunately, Don passed away -- I'm not 22 for sure of the exact time -- and McGrath then I think 23 became a permanent manager. And he started right away, I 24 think, giving Ron Grover negative feedback on me, and Ron 25 would correct him -- no, that's not true, I can tell you ANN RILEY & ASSOCIATES, LTD.
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40 1 exactly this guy's performance and everybody else in the 2 group.
3 Ron stood up to him and said, yeah, I've got to 4 know what's going on here, but I'm going to tell you, you 5 know, I'm going to write the evaluations as I see them and 6 this guy is doing an outstanding job.
7 So I think McGrath saw that he was not going to 8 get anywhere with Ron as far as getting rid of me, so -- and 9 I think this entire thing was orchestrated, as I mentioned 10 in my sequence of events.
11 We were then -- this was in ninety -- what are 12 these dates? I have to be careful here. This was in '96, 13 early '96 time frame, we were preparing the fiscal year '97 14 budget. The instructions were as follows, using my memory 15 here, so bear with me a moment: We are going to have to cut 16 our budget this year by 17 percent. I think that's what it 17 was. Okay, so we can handle that. That's no bit deal.
18 There were a few things that we were going to do that we 19 would not be able to do for the sites. But then by the year 20 2001, we want a 40 percent reduction. Okay, guys, what that 21 means is all the nice stuff, the fluff is gone.
22 Well, we figured in five years, there would be 23 attrition, and so we said, okay, we can live with that.
24 That's fine. So we had those marching orders, and Ron was 25 told to go out and prepare a budget that -- and a five-year ANN RILEY & ASSOCIATES, LTD.
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41 1 plan that encompassed those two directives, and he did.
2 He met with -- McGrath met with all of his direct 3 reports, of which Ron was one, and I guess they had a 4 round-robin discussion. You would have to talk to Ron to 5 find out the details. I was not present. But I did get 6 feedback from Ron, as did the rest of the group immediately 7 after this meeting.
8 McGrath basically said, that's not good enough, 9 that's not what I want, I want, basically, the 40 percent 10 reduction right now. So basically, the long and the short 11 of it is not only did I lose my job, but Ron lost his, and 12 now Wilson is reporting directly to McGrath and I'm sure 13 things are operating quite smoothly between the two of them, 14 if you get my drift.
15 That's the long and the short of it. A lot of 16 details which need to be filled in, which, quite frankly, I 17 know some things about, but I'm sort of a second party. You 18 know, I was not at the meetings between McGrath and Ron.
19 Ron was. You need to talk to Ron or you need to talk to Ron 20 to find out exactly what happened.
21 But that's sort of why -- I feel like why I am 22 where I am, and that's out of nuclear power and out of a 23 job, and that's why Ron is where he is, which is looking for 24 a job because he still doesn't have one.
25 Q A permanent position?
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42 1 A Yeah. That's my understanding, and I haven't 2 talked to him in probably months.
3 Q Okay. Now, going back, now you're telling me you 4 don't have direct knowledge, but you may over some of the 5 information that was taking place. At what point in the 6 process after they told you they were going to post your 7 position -
8 A Uh-huh.
9 Q That's what you were told -
10 A Yes.
11 Q -- is that they were going to post the position.
12 Explain what positions went away and what they said they 13 were going to do.
14 A Well, they were going to -- remember they had 15 placed environmental responsibilities in our description 16 positions back in mid '94, although we never did those 17 functions because we still had Diedra and we still had 18 Tresha to do those.
19 They said, okay, we're going to get rid of 20 environmental, so we're taking all those out. Big deal.
21 we're not doing them anyway. Nothing changes because we 22 weren't doing those functions.
23 So they were going to post our positions because 24 they said this is, quote, a new position because we're doing 25 away with those functions.
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43 1 So at that point, I smelled a rat and I went 2 directly to Ed Boyles and I said, Ed, they have told me that 3 they're going to post my position. Now, my position is the 4 one that was given to me in settlement to my previous 5 complaint. If they post it, I'm going to file with the 6 Department of Labor. But Gary, they're changing it. And I 7 said, Ed, we're not doing those functions; they haven't 8 changed anything. Basically what you are fixing to do is 9 post almost the identical exact position except for a title 10 change that you offered to me in settlement, and if you do, 11 I'm going to file with the Department of Labor because I 12 smell a rat. This is not right. Then I explained to him 13 what was going on with the budget reductions and what 14 McGrath had told Ron, et cetera.
15 So Ed said, I appreciate this information. Let me 16 check into it and I'll get back with you. And he did and he 17 talked to Phil, I'm certain he talked to Phil and to 18 probably McGrath and others and came back and said, well, it 19 looks to me like what they're doing is correct and they're 20 probably going to go ahead with it. I said, okay, but I'm 21 telling you it's wrong, and when you do it, I'm going to 22 file. And I did.
23 Now, did that answer your question?
24 Q Uh-huh.
25 A Okay.
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44 1 Q Okay. So they were basically posting the position 2 that you had gained -
3 A Yes.
4 Q -- from the settlement?
5 A That's correct.
6 Q And even though the -- when that reorg. happened 7 or organization happened in 1994 and you had to bid on the 8 position again, did they make you interview?
9 A Oh, yes.
10 Q Okay. In '94?
11 A Yes, they did.
12 Q Okay. Were there any other applicants?
13 A Yes.
14 Q Okay. Do you know how many other applicants?
15 A No, ma'am, I do not recall. But at that time, you 16 know, I was under the impression that those job functions 17 were truly being added to our position description, so I did 18 not have a problem with it because it was indeed changing.
19 So I said, well, this looks legitimate and went 20 through the interview process. It was no problem. And I 21 was selected for it. I think we all were. I don't think 22 anybody was removed. It was a legitimate, bona fide 23 revision of the PD.
24 Now, as it turns out, we never did them, so in 25 essence, the job functions had never changed. So now they ANN RILEY & ASSOCIATES, LTD.
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45 1 come back with McGrath in charge and say, we're changing it 2 now, we're taking them out, and I said, no, you're not 3 changing it because we're not doing them. So nothing has 4 changed. If we had been doing those functions, then it 5 would have been different. We weren't.
6 So I kind of felt like that was a smoke screen to 7
8 Q So you weren't doing any of the environmental 9 work, basically?
10 A No.
11 Q Okay. But the first time, if I'm not mistaken, 12 there -- in '94, in the reorg., there was no downsizing. I 13 mean, there were no -
14 A No.
15 Q -- positions to be applied for, and in the 16 reorganization in '96, there was actually downsizing going 17 on -
18 A That's correct.
19 Q -- at the time?
20 A That's correct.
21 Q Okay. My understanding, reading over some of the 22 documents in this investigation, is the policy for 23 downsizing -- I don't know if you're aware of it, but I 24 think you had mentioned before and your complaint was that 25 the RIF rule should have applied as far as seniority.
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46 1 A That's correct.
2 Q And you were the number one on the senior role?
3 A Oh, yeah. I would have been -- I had the most 4 time in nuclear power and the most time at TVA.
5 Q Okay.
6 A I would have been the highest on the retention 7 register.
8 Q Okay.
9 A So they elected not to go that route.
10 Q Okay.
11 A Even though I think -- I was told -- I cannot 12 verify this -- I was told that Ben Easley, who was one of 13 the personnel directors who reported to Ed, went to them and 14 said, this is wrong, the job's not changing; therefore, you 15 should not be posting and interviewing, you should go by the 16 retention register. And I think they -- I think he did not 17 get a warm reception.
18 Q Okay. Another -- some other information I read 19 over in the investigation was that there was a certain 20 percentage of the function in that position, when it had the 21 environmental section tagged onto it, that the environmental 22 portion occupied say 10 percent of the job, 50 percent of 23 the job, but from what you're telling me, it was zero 24 percent of the job. Okay.
25 A Zero.
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47 1 Q Okay. So in fact, even though the job description 2 itself, the environmental function was dropped off of that 3 description, the job in itself remained the same?
4 A Yes, ma'am.
5 Q Okay. In your opinion, would there have been any 6 undue disruption for you to go from one position to the 7 other position?
8 A I'm not sure I understand that question.
9 Q Okay. Would there have been any problem or would 10 it have required additional training or disruption in the 11 unit for you to go with position -- from the position with 12 the environmental section on it to the other one?
13 A Absolutely not.
14 Q Okay. So anyway, they went ahead and posted.
15 There was also some information in the investigation that 16 you spoke to Sam Harvey -
17 A Uh-huh.
18 Q -- about him being preselected for this position.
19 A Yes. Yeah.
20 Q Can you tell me about the conversations you may 21 have had with anyone, including Sam Harvey, regarding that 22 preselection?
23 A Before we interviewed for our jobs, I had talked 24 to Sam -- so had Ron Grover talked to Sam, I think -- about 25 there was a position that was open at Sequoyah, and Sam ANN RILEY & ASSOCIATES, LTD.
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48 1 -- you know, we all saw the handwriting on the wall, which 2 was we're going from three chemistry and environmental 3 specialists to two, so somebody was not going to have a job.
4 So Sam starts working with Charles Kent at 5 Sequoyah and tries to get a position out there, just put him 6 out there and report to the chemistry manager at Sequoyah.
7 It is my understanding that when McGrath got wind of that, 8 that he blocked it. He said, no, I'm not going to allow 9 anybody to be transferred out there, which basically sealed 10 someone's doom downtown. It happened to be mine, but again, 11 I think -- I think that was probably part of the 12 orchestration of this entire thing. You know, he wanted to 13 get rid of somebody that had basically stood up to him.
14 Q Okay. Did you ever talk to Sam Harvey regarding a 15 conversation he had with Mr. Voeller?
16 A Yes, I did.
17 Q Okay. Do you remember any of the details of that?
18 A I'm trying to think. I may have to pull some 19 notes here.
20 But I got a call from Dave Voeller, and this was 21 again before the interviews, and Dave Voeller, the chemistry 22 manager at Watts Bar, said basically -- I'm paraphrasing -
23 what the heck is going on? I said, what do you mean? Well, 24 I just got a call from Sam Harvey, who said in essence that 25 we would be working -- we, Sam and Dave Voeller would be ANN RILEY & ASSOCIATES, LTD.
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49 1 working together a lot closer in the future because of this 2 reorganization. And Voeller says, what are you saying?
3 What are you saying, Sam? And he said, well, we'll be 4 working closer together. Are you saying that you've got the 5 job? And again here, I'm paraphrasing. I do have notes on 6 this because it was so critical, by the way. I would have 7 to refer to them. Sam said, well, basically, yeah, I've 8 been told I'm going to get the job, I'm going to get the 9 job.
10 So Voeller calls me and said, did you know this?
11 And I said, no, I didn't have a clue. I did have a clue, 12 but I led on that I did not have a clue but suspected that 13 something was going on between Wilson McArthur and Sam and 14 McGrath and Sam.
15 I said, Dave, -- Dave Voeller -- I said, you 16 better make sure you remember this, and Dave said, don't 17 worry because I took notes on the whole thing and it's in my 18 Day-Planner, you know, but I'm just telling you, this was a 19 strange conversation, I don't understand, you know, what's 20 going on here. I said, well, it looks to me like 21 preselection.
22 Now, I'm trying to recall, and I do not recall 23 whether I had a conversation with Sam. It seems like I did.
24 It seems like I did.
25 Q But you had that -- you remember the conversation ANN RILEY & ASSOCIATES, LTD.
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50 1 with Mr. Voeller?
2 A Oh, yes.
3 Q Okay. Regarding -
4 A And I did take notes on that as well.
5 Q And you are going to provide those notes to me?
6 A Yes, I will.
7 Q Okay. So you had the screening or they had the 8 interview, the screening board or the interview board. Who 9 was on that board?
10 A Wilson McArthur, Charles Kent, John Corey, Haywood 11 Rogers, and there was some other lady. Ben Easley was 12 supposed to have been on it, but he told me that due to the 13 fact that he had some involvement in the previous DOL 14 settlement, that they did not feel like it would be proper 15 for him to be on it, so he was replaced by some other lady.
16 I do not recall her name. Which is a little bit strange 17 because Charles Kent had involvement in the previous one and 18 he was on it. John Corey had involvement with the previous 19 one in a manner of speaking and he was on it. But Ben was 20 excluded.
21 Q Okay. Mr. Corey -
22 A And of course Wilson McArthur.
23 Q All right.
24 Mr. Corey, was he involved in your first complaint 25 at all?
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51 1 A No. The reason I say, and that's why I said in a 2 manner of speaking, after I got the job back in '94 and I 3 was working for Ron, Ron was gone on a trip, and so there 4 was a rad chem managers meeting, which would be Kent, Corey 5 and Cox, along with Ron. Ron was out of town, so he asked 6 that I attend, and I did.
7 We had the meeting and I was representing Ron with 8 these three rad chem managers, and on into the meeting, I 9 was asked to leave because they had matters they wanted to 10 discuss and did not want me involved.
11 Q Who asked you to leave?
12 A Charles Kent. Possibly John Corey, but I'm not -
13 I can't state that for sure. One of those two.
14 So I reported to Ron when he got back all of the 15 events, you know, to bring him up to speed, and I said, and 16 you're going to have to talk to these guys because something 17 took place and they asked me to leave. Okay, he said, I'll 18 check on it.
19 He did, and later on, he says, well, they wanted 20 you to leave because they were going to be talking about 21 some sensitive areas and they knew that you had taped some 22 recordings during your previous case, and they didn't want 23 any possibility of that.
24 So I'm saying Corey and Kent had explicit 25 knowledge about my previous case.
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52 1 Q Okay.
2 A And that's why I was asked to leave that meeting, 3 and that's what makes it a little bit strange that Ben 4 Easley was asked not to be on the committee when others who 5 had knowledge were allowed to be on it, all three of them 6 Q Okay. So Mr. Kent and Mr. Corey, who are 7 managers, rad chem managers at Sequoyah and Browns Ferry, 8 were on the board. Mr. McArthur -- did Mr. McArthur ask you 9 any questions during the -
10 A No, ma'am, he did not.
11 Q And then someone representing Human Resources was 12 also present.
13 A That's correct.
14 Q And the last person, there was Haywood Rogers.
15 A Uh-huh.
16 Q What is Mr. Haywood's -- Haywood's job?
17 A I'm only speculating here. I think he was 18 assigned to the steam generator group, but I'm not 19 absolutely sure of that. I just can't quite remember.
20 I was very dismayed at the fact that Jack Cox was 21 not on that review board because Jack was the one that I had 22 worked closely with for the previous two years, he knew my 23 performance, he knew what I had done. Due to a trip or 24 something, a day off, he could not attend, he could not be 25 present.
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53 1 Q Did he explain that to you?
2 A No.
3 Q Who explained that to you?
4 A Ron Grover. Ron was extremely upset about the 5 fact that the selection board was then biased because you 6 had two very high-level managers, Jack Cox and John Corey, 7 that could -- Jack Cox -- I'm sorry -- Charles Kent and John 8 Corey. Charles Kent could speak very authoritatively on the 9 job Sam Harvey had done at Sequoyah in the past two years 10 because he's the rad chem manager. Jack Cox could speak ii very authoritatively about the job Chendra had done at 12 Browns Ferry for the last two years.
13 BY MR. WHITE:
14 Q Mr. Corey -
15 A Yes.
16 Q -- not Mr. Cox.
17 A Did I -- I'm sorry. They start with a C. That's 18 a real problem.
19 John Corey could speak very authoritatively about 20 Chendra and the job he had done in the preceding two years 21 at Browns Ferry. Jack Cox was not present to represent me.
22 Haywood Rogers was, who had not a clue, nor was he -- did he 23 have the position or responsibility that these other two 24 did. They had very important positions at Browns Ferry and 25 at Sequoyah. I didn't have that. I think that that was ANN RILEY & ASSOCIATES, LTD.
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54 1 very unfortunate.
2 BY MS. BENSON:
3 Q During the course of the interview, the questions 4 that were presented to you, how do you feel -- you know, I'm 5 asking you something very subjective here.
6 A Sure.
7 Q But do you feel that the questions were slanted 8 towards any of the applicants or did they seem to be fairly 9 straightforward questions?
10 A They were slanted, in my opinion.
11 My expertise -- as I mentioned, I had spent 14 12 years at Arkansas and had grown up in the radiochemistry, 13 radioactive chemistry, radioactive effluence, evaluation of 14 radioactive coolant data, failed fuel reports, radioactive 15 releases. That was 14 years. Over half of my career was 16 devoted on the radiochemistry side of the house.
17 There was not one single question having to do 18 with the radiochemistry side of the house, not one, and that 19 is a very significant portion of the job, but there was not 20 one asked on that side of the house.
21 So you asked me if it was biased, and I say 22 without question, it was.
23 Q Are there other areas -- you indicated one area.
24 How would you say that the others were slanted, other 25 questions? Or that's lack of those kind of questions. What ANN RILEY & ASSOCIATES, LTD.
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55 1 about the other questions?
2 A There were -- there were questions on steam 3 generators and interpretation of steam generator data, which 4 would be Sam's area of expertise, and there were several 5 having to do with -- several questions having to do with his 6 area of expertise.
7 Q Sam's expertise?
8 A Uh-huh.
9 Q Okay.
10 A Why was nothing asked? What does it mean if 11 Argon-41 stays the same and Xenon-133 increases by 50 12 percent? What does that mean? I would like to hear his 13 response to that. What does it mean when they both decrease 14 by 30 percent, you know? I"m talking about interpretation 15 of data which could have a bearing on the performance of 16 your fuel. None of them, nothing. What's trapped uranium?
17 What is it? How do you know you have failed fuel? How do 18 you know if it's in first, second, thrice burned fuel? What 19 does the data look like? What's the cesium ratio? What 20 does that mean? Nothing, you see.
21 So -- and I subsequently discussed that with 22 Wilson McArthur, and he said, I can tell you, Gary, that I 23 am the one that selected the questions on that interview 24 process and I was not biased. And that's what he told me.
25 Q All right. Let's see. After the interview ANN RILEY & ASSOCIATES, LTD.
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56 1 process, Sam Harvey was selected for that position?
2 A Uh-huh.
3 Q And what happened then?
4 A Well, we were told to -- this was -- I don't know 5 exactly. That was in July time frame, I think. So we were 6 all -- I was losing my job in September and I was told to 7 continue business as usual and do not diminish one iota in 8 support to the sites and just continue working up until the 9 last day, which I did.
10 So I continued to go to Watts Bar and to support 11 them as they were a new plant just critical, hadn't been 12 critical that long, in evaluation of data, et cetera. So 13 nothing really changed as far as the way we functioned.
14 Now -- and I continued to report to Ron, but then 15 it got kind of grey because McArthur was wanting the 16 information and Ron was wanting the information, and so he 17 started stepping in more and more where I had to basically 18 provide him the information instead of -
19 Q That's McArthur?
20 A Yes.
21 Q Okay. At that point, had McArthur been selected 22 and -
23 A Yes.
24 Q -- Ron lost his position anyway?
25 A Yes.
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57 1 Q Okay. So that had already happened by the time 2 you were -
3 A Yes.
4 Q Okay.
5 A As a matter of fact, that happened just before the 6 interviews took place.
7 Q Okay.
8 A And so basically, that -- that prevented Ron from 9 having a lot of input into the interview process. And one 10 thing that Ron wanted to do, one thing that Ben Easley 11 wanted to do was include in the interview package that was 12 sent to these people that were going to be evaluating us, 13 send our last couple of years -- our appraisals for the last 14 two years, and I don't think that was ever done because mine 15 looked better than Sam's.
16 And so it was -- and I think that's pretty 17 customary, to attach the last year or two of your reviews, 18 your personnel reviews, and that was not done, and that's 19 another thing Ben was not happy about, was the fact that 20 they didn't put those in.
21 Plus, there was a letter on sexual harassment that 22 was written to Sam, and that should have been included, too, 23 but that was mysteriously left out, because, you know, that 24 would have biased the group in favor of me rather than 25 McGrath's choice, McGrath and Wilson's choice, which was ANN RILEY & ASSOCIATES, LTD.
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58 1 Sam. So -
2 Q Okay. So subsequently, in September, you went 3 ahead and resigned or retired?
4 A Retired, uh-huh.
5 Q And waited for the complaint to take -
6 A Yes. It takes a long time for these things to -
7 Q Did they come back with any other offers following 8
9 A Yes, they did.
10 Q Can you explain that?
11 A In -- one of the things that Phil Reynolds had 12 asked me to do, because I had told him, you know, I was 13 upset, because after nine years with TVA, I was being 14 retired, cut loose, whatever you want to say, and now I have 15 no retirement, basically. I mean, I'm getting a little 16 retirement check which is not big enough to make a car 17 payment.
18 But nevertheless, I'm saying, you know, this is 19 wrong, you know it's wrong, I know it's wrong. I've got 14 20 years at Arkansas. Had I stayed there, you know, I would 21 have 20-something years with them and a retirement would 22 mean something.
23 Well, we discussed this for a while and Phil says, 24 well, Gary, why don't you just go out and do a calculation 25 and find out -- my words now -- what you've been screwed out ANN RILEY & ASSOCIATES, LTD.
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59 1 of and come back and tell me a sum that we would have to 2 invest in an interest-bearing account or something to give 3 you the retirement that you would have received had we not 4 screwed you out of what you have. My words, not his, of 5 course. So I said sure, you know, I'll do that, so I did.
6 I went to an investment broker and said, you know, how much 7 would we have to invest to get me the time that I have left, 8 and -- which I was screwed out of until I got my 80 points 9 of retirement, et cetera, et cetera, and it came out to be a 10 figure of 800 or 900 thousand dollars or something like 11 that.
12 Well, Phil had been doing the calculation himself 13 obviously because I came back and I met with him, and I 14 think I even sent him a letter stating, you know, I got with 15 an investment broker, such and such and so and so, and this 16 is what they calculated. And he basically says, yeah, well, 17 we did -- we put the pencil to it and that's just -- we just 18 can't -- that's just impossible. We can't do anything like 19 that.
20 So I had this figure in my mind in doing what the 21 personnel director to do, which basically was to come up 22 with an amount that I felt like I had been cheated out of, 23 and so that was my basis for starting negotiations, and, of 24 course, theirs was nothing or we'll give you your same job 25 working for the same people that have screwed you ANN RILEY & ASSOCIATES, LTD.
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60 1 repeatedly. Sure, go on back.
2 Q What was their final formal offer to you?
3 A Just one second, though. Your question was did 4 they make another offer, and they did. And this was in -
5 this must have been in the June time frame.
6 Q Well, let's see, the board was in July of '96 and 7 the interview -
8 A Uh-huh. July of '96. So I lost my job in 9 September. And this one came in early to mid '97, it seems 10 like, maybe the April to June time frame.
11 But it basically said, okay, Gary, we are willing 12 to give you a job working for TVA outside of -- I'll have to 13 get you this letter because it has been so long since I read 14 it -- outside of your direct management in nuclear power so 15 that, you know, you don't have to worry about this again, or 16 you can take $100,000. I was -- call it quits, which 17 $100,000, you've got to understand, at the level to which I 18 was being compensated or should have been had they not taken 19 their action against me that they did, even back in '93, I 20 would have been, including salary and benefits, vacation, 21 wages and retirement, all of that, making around $120,000 a 22 year. That's rough. That's rough. So $12,000 a month -
23 no, it would be $10,000 a month.
24 So I'm looking at, you know, what the heck, you 25 come back after all of this and offer me basically ten ANN RILEY & ASSOCIATES, LTD.
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61 1 months, you know? I'm not going to put up with this. So I 2 rejected it.
3 Q Uh-huh.
4 A And then we got the notice from the Department of 5 Labor -- I got it -- that said that basically, they sided 6 with me and said, you know, this looks fishy, guys. And, of 7 course, you have a copy of that.
8 Q Uh-huh.
9 A And so I'm saying, well, that has certainly 10 strengthened my position. So at that point, I knew that it 11 was time to call an attorney, and I had resisted doing that 12 because of the expense, but at that point, I did get in 13 contact with an attorney and started formal negotiations 14 with them, which subsequently culminated -- first of all, it 15 was odd. They had offered me $100,000, and yet when we 16 started entering formal negotiations, they came in at 50, 17 half of what they had offered before.
18 So I spent an inordinate amount of money with my 19 attorney just to get them up to what they had agreed to 20 before because these people try to bleed you dry. They try 21 to bankrupt you.
22 So it took forever, and so then we finally get up 23 where it's reasonable and they file a motion for summary 24 dismissal, which then kicks you into high gear with the 25 attorney because you only have a certain amount of time to ANN RILEY & ASSOCIATES, LTD.
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62 1 get the information together and to file it with the 2 administrative law judge to get him to rule on the case, 3 which cost another ton of money because then you're into 4 depositions and things like that. And if you don't make it, 5 you know, the judge will dismiss it. So you get into that.
6 Well, finally, after we filed our answer to the 7 motion for summary dismissal, the judge ruled very 8 substantially in our favor, and they then entered 9 negotiations a little more deliberately, and we ended up at 10 $193,000, of which a large portion of that is attorney's.
11 Q Okay. Before the actual settlement and soon after 12 you -- I just want to make sure I've got all the offers 13 straight here. But after you were not selected, the first 14 offer to you was for that position you had bid for.
15 A Yeah.
16 Q Okay.
17 A That was strange.
18 Q And then the second one, you're saying, a year 19 later, -
20 A Or thereabouts.
21 Q -- they came to you and offered you $100,000.
22 A Or a job outside of the -- I can't remember the 23 exact wording, I'm sorry, but you can refer to it -- outside 24 of that chain of command because they knew I would have no 25 part of these guys.
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63 1 Q Okay.
2 A And they were -
3 Q I think you had indicated that in your letters, 4 too.
5 A Oh, I have. I have.
6 Q Well, how about if we take a short break, and 7 we've gotten through the summary or chronology of events, 8 and then I just have some specific questions I wanted to ask 9 about that.
10 A Sure.
11 MS. BENSON: So we'll go off the record at 2:30.
12 [Off the record.]
13 MS. BENSON: Okay. We're back on the record at 14 2:45 p.m.
15 I'll just remind you, Mr. Fiser, that you're still 16 under oath.
17 THE INTERVIEWEE: Okay.
18 BY MS. BENSON:
19 Q Just continuing on here, I wanted to ask you a 20 couple of additional questions as far as what kind of 21 personal knowledge do you have that either Mr. McGrath or 22 Mr. McArthur were aware of your previous DOL complaint 23 during the '93-94 time frame, if you can be specific as far 24 as how you know they were aware?
25 A To speak specifically of McArthur, after I started ANN RILEY & ASSOCIATES, LTD.
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64 1 working for Ron Grover again in '94, shortly thereafter, TVA 2 was in a Department of Labor complaint with Bill Jocker, who 3 was the former chemistry manager, corporate chemistry 4 manager.
5 I was told by the general counsel, Phil Pfeiffer, 6 that they may need to use some of my notes and some of my 7 taped conversations in preparation for going to trial 8 against Bill Jocker.
9 I was very concerned about that because I had 10 provided this information to TVA's IG back in '93, and I did 11 not really want it known that I had this information.
12 Well, the people they gave it to -- I was sitting 13 in an office with Wilson McArthur, who was reviewing all of 14 my notes, taped conversations that I had transcribed, some 15 of -- a lot of these conversations, I had taped from him 16 personally with the general counsel, Phil Pfeiffer, and we 17 were sitting there and he was reviewing my notes in a 18 notebook.
19 I figured at that time that this was probably not 20 going to do me a lot of good in the future with this 21 company, so I know that he knew about it.
22 Q Now, he knew about your -
23 A Previous -
24 Q -- taped transcripts.
25 A -- conversations.
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65 1 Q Right.
2 A Transcripts, everything. As a matter of fact, he 3 personally, after -- after he had selected Sam, we had a 4 conversation where he said, I know you think that this 5 selection process was biased and there's not a whole lot I 6 can say to you because I know in the past you have taped me, 7 so I'm just not willing to talk about it except to say that 8 he was unbiased and was fair.
9 So I don't think that did me a whole lot of 10 favors. So I know he know about it. And of course, McGrath 11 was his boss at that time, so he too knew about it. Unless 12 the two never talked, you know, he had to have known what 13 was going on.
14 Q Now, were either one of those individuals, McGrath 15 or McArthur, interviewed by anyone regarding your complaint 16 in '93 or '94, the '93 complaint at DOL?
17 A Oh, yes.
18 Q Okay. They were involved specifically with your 19 case?
20 A Yes.
21 Q McGrath?
22 A I know McArthur was. I do not have explicit 23 knowledge that McGrath was. I'm not sure about that.
24 Q And I think you mentioned earlier, Mr. Corey was 25 involved in your D0L complaint?
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66 1 A That's correct.
2 Q And Mr. -
3 A Kent.
4 Q -- Kent was involved in that.
5 A That's correct.
6 Q Okay.
7 A As a matter of fact, after I lost my job in 1993 8 and went into the employee transition program, on 9 approximately July the 2nd, 3rd, 4th, somewhere in that time 10 frame, I got a call from Charles Kent asking me to come out 11 to Sequoyah and talk to him.
12 Now, I had lost my job, my position at Sequoyah 13 had been determined to be surplus by Joe Binam, and he gave 14 me a letter certifying that just -- the same day they put me 15 into the employee transition program.
16 So he wants to talk to me, so I go out to meet 17 with Charles Kent and basically he said to me, Gary, I know 18 the facts, I know you got screwed, and I'm going to set this 19 straight. This was on a Tuesday following the July the 4th 20 holiday, I think it was. So here's what I want you to do.
21 I want you to interview with the plant manager here. And he 22 wasn't there long. I've forgotten his name. Oh, gosh.
23 But anyway, and he called the plant manager in and 24 the plant manager and Charles Kent talked to me for about 25 ten, 15 minutes, at which time -- I'm going to think of this ANN RILEY & ASSOCIATES, LTD.
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67 1 guy's name in a second -- at which time the plant manager 2 got up to walk out of Kent's office and looked back and 3 said, I am satisfied, I agree with this, make it happen, and 4 turned and walked out the door.
5 Then Charles looked at me and he said, all right, 6 I'm going to pay you a salary. I know that they offered 7 another fellow the chemistry manager's job out there or 8 something, and they offered it to him at a PGTN which I 9 think was in the neighborhood of $82,000 a year.
10 He says, I am going to find out exactly what they 11 offered him and I'm going to offer you the same thing, 12 because we're going to straighten this mess out because what 13 they did was wrong. And I want you to show up out here for 14 work, you just show up on about like Thursday morning, I 15 want you out here with a tie on, and it's just going to 16 happen and we're going to do it so fast that these guys 17 downtown won't have time to do anything.
18 BY MR. WHITE:
19 Q Mr. Fiser, did you say this was after the '93-94 20 or after the '96 incident?
21 A This was after the '93 incident.
22 Q Okay.
23 A While you were in employee transition?
24 Q That's correct.
25 A And so I said, man, this is wonderful how this is ANN RILEY & ASSOCIATES, LTD.
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1 all working out. So basically what happened, Wilson 2 McArthur found out about it and Wilson McArthur called Joe 3 Binam and the two of them blocked this move on Kent's part 4 and on the plant manager's part to get me out there.
5 BY MS. BENSON:
6 Q Now, how do you know that McArthur and Binam did 7 this?
8 A Because after this happened, I was livid, and I 9 slipped a tape recorder in my pocket and I went out and I 10 stood in front of Wilson McArthur's desk and I said, what 11 happened? You know, we had all this worked out. And I 12 said, did you know it? Well, yeah, I knew about it. And 13 all this is documented and I have transcribed these tapes.
14 And I said, well, what happened? Well, when I 15 found out about it, he says, I called Joe Binam -- I'm 16 paraphrasing here, guys, because it's been years -- I called 17 Joe Binam. And I said, well, why in the world would you 18 call him? Why would anybody call Binam? Well, because he 19 was involved in the previous deal and, you know, and it just 20 wasn't right. He needed to know.
21 So I got it straight from Wilson McArthur's mouth 22 that he is the one that blocked this move in 1993 to not 23 only pull me back in this, quote, surplus position -- that 24 was a lie -- but not only was there still a position, it had 25 been upgraded from a PG9 to a PG10.
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1 So that's how I know. It's straight from his 2 mouth, it is on tape, and it has been transcribed.
3 Unfortunately, after I started working for Ron Grover in 4 '94, I got a letter from TVA's general counsel that said 5 they had to prepare for their case against Bill Jocker, and 6 as part of that preparation, they had decided that it was 7 necessary to provide my tapes and the transcripts to various 8 people that were having to prepare for this trial, of which 9 Wilson McArthur was one. I thought, this isn't going to 10 help Gary Fiser's career.
11 Is that clear?
12 Q Yes.
13 A Okay.
14 Q Okay. Reading over your previous transcripts with 15 TVA IG or Department of Labor, one or the other, in that, 16 you were talking about a letter that you had sent to NRC 17 while McGrath was the head of the Nuclear Safety and Review 18 Board? Do you know anything about that? Do you recall 19 anything about that letter?
20 A Yes. Let's see. After I got my job back working 21 for Ron Grover in '94, they were doing an investigation into 22 some of the problems that had been brought to their 23 attention at Sequoyah, and there was a chemistry upgrade 24 project -- CUP is what it was referred to as -- and we were 25 having a terrible time getting this thing funded, and it had ANN RILEY & ASSOCIATES, LTD.
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70 1 been going on for years.
2 As a matter of fact, it was called something else, 3 but even before I took over in '88, people had already 4 investigated the various problems and put in writing what it 5 was going to take and what equipment we were going to need 6 to upgrade the -- and protect the steam generators at 7 Sequoyah.
8 Well, this investigation that was performed by Tom 9 Overlid, I think is the guy's name, who was sort of working 10 for McGrath in some respect -- it might have just been NSRB 11 oversight into this subcommittee -- he had written a report 12 and he had called me in and did all of this investigation 13 and talked to all of these people, and they just really, 14 quote, in-depth reviewed the problems at Sequoyah chemistry.
15 He called me, he says, Gary, I'm fixing to put my 16 report out. I said, great. What did you find? Well, what 17 I found is that this was such a huge, voluminous project, 18 millions of dollars to fix things, and protracted over 19 years, that this thing was just too big, and the problem is 20 that you guys should have broke this thing down into phase 21 1, phase 2, phase 3, something like that, so that it would 22 be a little bit more palatable to management.
23 I said, I can't believe you said that. When Jack 24 Wilson took over as the vice president of Sequoyah in 1990 25 -- I'm sorry -- nineteen-eighty -- we've got to check this ANN RILEY & ASSOCIATES, LTD.
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71 1 date -- nine, something like that, he looked at our project, 2 and one of the very first things he did was break that down 3 into phase 1, phase 2 and phase 3. So how in the world 4 could you state that the problem with it was that it was too 5 voluminous, that you should have broken it down, because we 6 did that. And as a matter of fact, you can talk to Donna 7 Wilson, who was on -- the special projects group manager, 8 that was responsible for breaking it down. So what you have 9 found is totally in error.
10 Well, we believe that's the problem. I said, no, 11 that's not the problem. The problem is that Oliver Kingsley 12 and the others would not appropriate the money that we 13 needed to fix the problem. So what you have said is not 14 true because we have done exactly what you're saying in your 15 letter that we should have done. Well, that's what I'm 16 going to write. I said, if you do, I intend to take that 17 document and send it to NRC and say, here is an example of 18 the way we cover things up at TVA, and we don't address the 19 real issue.
20 The real issue, guys, is not that we didn't know 21 what the problem was, the real issue is not that we didn't 22 have it broken down into manageable chunks in phase 1, phase 23 2 and phase 3; the real issue is that nobody would 24 appropriate the funds to fix it. And if you send that in, 25 I'm going to send it to NRC with a cover letter saying these ANN RILEY & ASSOCIATES, LTD.
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72 1 guys are tap dancing and this is not the truth.
2 Well, they submitted the letter and I sent it to 3 Mr. Vorse with a cover letter saying this is the way we 4 circumnavigate the real problem -- I'm paraphrasing here 5 -- but I never heard from the guy. I don't even know if he 6 got it.
7 Q Okay. And when was that?
8 A Well, this would have been in mid '94 to the fall 9 of '94.
10 Q Okay.
11 A Something like that.
12 Q Okay. All right. That's what I was just 13 wondering, was what that letter was about to the NRC.
14 A Yeah. It was the way that, well, we can lie, we 15 can say one thing when it is -- and I pointed out to Mr.
16 Overlid, I said, what you're saying is not the truth, so 17 you're recording something that is wrong and you're not 18 willing -- you don't have the courage to state the truth, 19 which is we wouldn't fund it.
20 Q Okay.
21 A We lied.
22 Q Okay. Now going back to the interview that you 23 had to undergo for the second position in '96.
24 A Yes.
25 Q Do you recall when you were told you were going.to ANN RILEY & ASSOCIATES, LTD.
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73 1 have to be interviewed, the date? Like did you have a 2 couple weeks to prepare or was it a week in between the time 3 you were notified, or do you recall?
4 A I do not.
5 Q Okay.
6 A I would just have to check the -
7 Q Okay. That's fine. If you don't recall, that's 8 fine.
9 Now, really like the last thing I have, unless 10 Darrell has some more, is going to be a statement on your 11 transcript here with the TVA IG interview, on page 45. You 12 were interviewed by David Van Bockren, July 17th, 1996, and 13 this is a transcript of that interview.
14 On page 45 of the transcript, you indicated -
15 well, let's go off the record for just a minute and I'll let 16 him review this.
17 [Off the record.]
18 MS. BENSON: Okay. The time right now is 3:09 and 19 I will remind you again, Mr. Fiser, you are still under 20 oath.
21 THE INTERVIEWEE: Uh-huh.
22 BY MS. BENSON:
23 Q What we're looking at is page 45 of your 24 transcript interview with TVA IG. In here, you said, as a 25 matter of fact, I tried even when I found out that they were ANN RILEY & ASSOCIATES, LTD.
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74 1 thinking about busing me and was trying to go into INPO and 2 things were working out well there, and then Wilson 3 McArthur, the same guy who they left me working for, or 4 something to that effect, promised me a job in his group and 5 said that this is wrong, so document it.
6 A Uh-huh. Yeah.
7 Q I don't like what they're doing to you even though 8 he was doing it, and I'm telling you that you have a job in 9 my group.
10 Can you explain what this information concerns?
11 A Yes. Early on in 1993, Wilson McArthur appeared 12 to be solidly behind me and could not understand and stated 13 many times to me, I don't understand how this could be 14 happening, I don't understand how you could be in trouble 15 because of all the wonderful things that you've done in 16 Sequoyah and the job you did in the outage management. I 17 just can't believe this is going on.
18 So he began to help me find something else to do, 19 and the first thing that came to my mind was possibly going 20 to the Institute of Nuclear Power for Operations, INPO, on a 21 reverse loan type situation where I was down there for a 22 year or two and then come back. And.he was willing, he 23 said, to help me do that.
24 But then he also stated, you know, you're not -- I 25 have some openings in the group downtown. I have -- you ANN RILEY & ASSOCIATES, LTD.
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75 1 know, it's not the chemistry manager's job, because that 2 belongs to Bill Jocker and he is going to come back and take 3 it, but, you know, there's a job in my group where you would 4 be working essentially for Bill, and I'm telling you, you've 5 got that job. If you want it, it's yours, it's no problem, 6 because, Gary, what's going on here is wrong and what 7 they're doing to you is wrong, and I don't understand it, 8 and I'm telling you you have that job if you want it.
9 Q So this concerned your '93 and -
10 A Yes.
11 Q -- or '94 incident or the '96?
12 A No, '93.
13 Q Okay. Okay.
14 MS. BENSON: Can you think of any other questions, 15 Darrell?
16 MR. WHITE: No.
17 BY MS. BENSON:
18 Q Do you have any additional information regarding 19 the '96 incident that -- a direction we could go, stuff, 20 information we have not covered at this point?
21 MR WHITE: I take that back. I did ask a question 22 when we were off the record about Cox, and you wanted to 23 address that.
24 MS. BENSON: Go ahead.
25 BY MR. WHITE:
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76 1 Q I was just interested in Mr. Cox, the rad 2 chemistry at Watts Bar, one individual that I guess you have 3 been working directly for and that was not able to make the 4 board for whatever reason.
5 Did he later discuss that with you?
6 A Yes.
7 Q And what was his -
8 A Basically, it was a very short conversation in his 9 office, and this was after the selections had been made and 10 I was headed out the door, essentially, or in other words 11 had not been selected for the job.
12 He just quietly and privately expressed remorse 13 for the fact that he had taken that day off, and in light of 14 how things turned out, you know, he felt really badly, I 15 think, about it, and obviously felt that had he been there, 16 maybe he could have done a better job representing me or the 17 job that I had done, or at least be able to answer those 18 questions.
19 So I think he was very saddened by the fact that 20 things turned out the way they did.
21 Q Did he give you any indication that he had spoken 22 to other members after -- other members of the board 23 afterwards and they may have provided him information?
24 A It was implicit, not explicit, you know, but I 25 really could not speculate further about that.
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77 1 Q Okay.
2 BY MS. BENSON:
3 Q Anyone else that would have any kind of direct 4 knowledge or information that would help us in this 5 investigation?
6 A Oh, absolutely. Of course, Ron Grover; Ben Easley 7 would as well in personnel; the others that we have already 8 mentioned. On the sexual harassment issue, that would be 9 Ron Grover again and possibly Tresh Landers. You've got 10 Dave Voeller. You know, Joe Binam, but that would have been 11 on the previous issue. He has been, of course, as you guys 12 already know, banned from nuclear power for five years 13 because of his role in the Bill Jocker issue and, I submit, 14 in my issue too, because they used me to get to Jocker.
15 But I think, you know, when Wilson was making the 16 statements, "I can't understand this, you know, you've done 17 a good job and we need to find you something and you have a 18 place to work in my group," and all of this, I think Binam 19 was the one pulling those strings even when they did my 1993 20 personnel evaluation, and Wilson McArthur is the one that 21 did that evaluation, and he and Ben Easley told me that I 22 was rated very high.
23 What does that mean? The top two or three people 24 of the direct reports for Wilson McArthur. In other words, 25 I was going to get a decent raise, until one of the vice ANN RILEY & ASSOCIATES, LTD.
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78 1 presidents walked in the room as they were evaluating and 2 saw the names on the board and where mine was, and he 3 immediately said, take him off, he's not going to get an 4 increase, put him down here.
5 Both Wilson and Ben were just flabbergasted by 6 this. Why? He's done a great job, he's done all this, he 7 had no INPO findings, he's gone to outage management, he has 8 done a wonderful job of managing the outage and he comes 9 back -- you know, he has done everything we've asked him.
10 Why? I won't discuss it; just put him down here.
11 I an convinced that Joe Binam was pulling those 12 strings. But again, that was the previous case, which, in 13 my opinion, led to this present one.
14 But that's about the only others that I can think 15 of that might have a direct bearing on it.
16 Q And in '96, where did -- where was Binam at that 17 time?
18 A In '96, he had been removed from nuclear power and 19 was placed over -- as a vice president over one of the 20 non-nuclear branches of TVA. He is over the operations at 21 Chicamaga Dam, the laboratory there and things like that.
22 So he has really no direct involvement with nuclear power 23 except that some of the people at the dam do metallurgical 24 tests and chemistry tests that support nuclear power. But 25 technically, I guess he has been removed from nuclear power.
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79 1 Q So he wasn't involved with operations support at 2 the time in '96?
3 A In t96, he was not.
4 Q Okay. And over the last -- during the last 5 incident.
6 A Then, of course, I can only -- well, I can more 7 than speculate. I can say Oliver Kingsley, who was the head 8 of nuclear power here for years, had direct input into it, 9 and I say that because of information I got directly from my 10 attorney, which came directly from the Office of General 11 Counsel, Brent Markalon, which said Kingsley's -- the reason 12 they offered me the $100,000 was because of his comment:
13 this guy is trouble and we need to get rid of him. So I 14 know that he had involvement in it.
15 Then I can also state I took a contracting job 16 with Commonwealth Edison at Byron Nuclear Station for six 17 months starting in July of last year, ending in 18 December/January time frame, and then for several months at 19 the Braidwood Nuclear Station in Chicago.
20 During that time, in about November, Oliver 21 Kingsley left TVA and became the chief nuclear officer for 22 Commonwealth Edison, and I was then summarily discharged 23 from my contracting position from Braidwood and was told 24 that there was a list of contractors that Kingsley requested 25 be submitted to him, and in his own handwriting, beside my ANN RILEY & ASSOCIATES, LTD.
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80 1 name or position, in his handwriting was IT, and I was told 2 that that stood for immediate termination. So I was 3 terminated that very day without due cause or anything, left 4 the site the same day.
5 So, you know, I think he had something to do with 6 it. Did he intentionally put this IT by my name? Obviously 7 he did. It's in his handwriting.
8 So that's just something I submit to you as 9 firsthand information, information from my attorney, and 10 then firsthand information, and we could get that list, I'm 11 sure, from ConEd which had his handwriting beside my name 12 and/or position. I'm sure if you call, you could get it.
13 Q Have you filed a Department of Labor complaint?
14 A No. I am giving it consideration.
15 Q You would have to file another DOL complaint 16 because that's a separate action.
17 A Okay.
18 Q So you would be starting over again.
19 A Boy, I look forward to that again.
20 Q Okay.
21 MS. BENSON: Do you have any questions?
22 All right. That concludes the interview. It is 23 3:22 p.m.
24 [Whereupon, at 3:22 p.m., the interview 25 concluded.]
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REPORTER'S CERTIFICATE This is to certify that the attached proceedings before the United States Nuclear Regulatory Commission in the matter of:
NAME OF PROCEEDING: INTERVIEW OF GARY FISER (CLOSED)
DOCKET NUMBER: 01 Investigation 298-013 PLACE OF PROCEEDING: Chattanooga, Tennessee were held as herein appears, and that this is the original transcript thereof for the file of the United States Nuclear Regulatory Commission taken by me and thereafter reduced to typewriting by me or under the direction of the court reporting company, and that the transcript is a true and accurate record of the foregoing proceedings.
Steve Anderson Official Reporter Ann Riley & Associates, Ltd.