ML021370535
| ML021370535 | |
| Person / Time | |
|---|---|
| Site: | Browns Ferry, Watts Bar, Sequoyah  |
| Issue date: | 05/09/2002 |
| From: | Johns E Neal R. Gross & Co. |
| To: | Office of Nuclear Reactor Regulation |
| Byrdsong A | |
| References | |
| +adjud/ruledam200506, 50-259-CIVP, 50-260-CIVP, 50-296-CIVP, 50-327-CIVP, 50-328-CIVP, 50-390-CIVP, ASLBP 01-791-01-CIVP, EA-99-234, NRC-338, RAS 4436 | |
| Download: ML021370535 (102) | |
Text
Official Transcript of Proceedings NUCLEAR REGULATORY COMMISSION
Title:
Tennesse Valley Authority Watts Bar Nuclear Plant, Unit 1 Sequoyah Nuclear Plant, Units 1 and 2 Browns Ferry Nuclear Plant, Units 1,2,3 Docket Number:
Location:
Date:
50-390-CivP; ASLBP No.: 01-791-01-CivP Chattanooga, Tennessee C3=F
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I4 it Work Order No.:
NRC-338 Pages 2477-2576 NEAL R. GROSS AND CO., INC.
Court Reporters and Transcribers 1323 Rhode Island Avenue, N.W.
Washington, D.C. 20005 (202) 234-4433 r-7mpl4fe = Tc,-V-o,3a SecY-on-
2477 UNITED STATES OF AMERICA
+
NUCLEAR REGULATORY COMMISSION ATOMIC SAFETY AND LICENSING BOARD HEARING In the Matter of:
I TENNESSEE VALLEY AUTHORITY Watts Bar Nuclear Plant, Unit 1;11 Sequoyah Nuclear Plant, Units 1
& 2; Browns Ferry Nuclear Plant, 1 Units 1, 2 and 3.
1i 1U Docket Nos:
50-390-CivP; 50-327-CivP; 50-328-CivP; 50-259-CivP; 50-296-CivP; ASLBP No.:
01-791-01-CivP EA 99-234
- Thursday, May 9, 2002 Courtroom B U.S. Bankruptcy Court 31 E. 11th St.
Chattanooga, TN The above-entitled matter came on for Hearing, pursuant to notice, at 9:00 a.m.
BEFORE:
CHARLES BECHHOEFER, Chairman ANN MARSHALL YOUNG, Administrative Judge RICHARD F. COLE, Administrative Judge PAGES:
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2478 APPEARANCES:
On behalf of the Nuclear Regulatory Commission:
DENNIS C. DAMBLY, Attorney JENNIFER M. EUCHNER, Attorney Office of the General Counsel U.S. Nuclear Regulatory Commission Washington, D.C. 20555
-and-NICHOLAS HILTON, Enforcement Specialist Office of Enforcement U.S. Nuclear Regulatory Commission Washington, D.C. 20555 On Behalf of Tennessee Valley Authority:
BRENT R. MARQUAND, Attorney JOHN E. SLATER, Attorney Tennessee Valley Authority 400 West Summit Hill Drive Knoxville, TN, 37902-1499
-and-DAVID A REPKA, Attorney Winston & Strawn 1400 L Street, N.W.
Washington, D.C. 20005-3502 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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2479 I -N-D-E-X WITNESS DIRECT CROSS REDIRECT VOIR DIRE GARY FISER Exhibit No.
TVA 123 2408 Mark Recd Premarked 1
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P-R-O-C-E-E-D-I-N-G-S 2
9:05 a.m.
3 CHAIRMAN BECHHOEFER: Good morning, ladies 4
and gentlemen.
We welcome you for the last day of 5
this Hearing session. We expect that we will break by 6
11:30.
7 Before we begin Judge Young has a
8 statement which, well, Judge Cole and myself don't 9
necessarily join in, but you are welcome to make it.
10 ADMINISTRATIVE JUDGE YOUNG:
In my 11 experience I found that it is very helpful to direct 12 counsel to address issues that the Judges find to be 13 possibly relevant, without suggesting, in any way, 14 what our ruling will be.
Because we have not, by any 15 means, heard all the evidence.
16 An issue arose yesterday, with regard to 17 the relevance of performance.
And both of you 18 indicated that that was only relevant, as I understood 19 you, only relevant to the '93 action.
20 But, and TVA has pretty much taken the 21 position of there was no violation, and there is 22 nothing between no violation and a violation.
23 But for me, anyway, and I think it if 24 you --
if it would help counsel to know issues that we 25 may be thinking about, and may appreciate your --
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whatever briefing you want to provide, the issue of 2
the relevance of performance with regard to the '96 3
action.
4 In other words, if, and this again does 5
not in any way suggest how we will rule.
The only 6
reason I asked Mr. Fiser not to be in the room is 7
because I don't want him to think that this is 8
suggesting that this is how we would rule.
And I 9
don't want TVA to think that is how we would rule.
10 But if we were to find that the posting of 11 the position might be inappropriate under the RIF 12 standards, regulatory, statutory policy, whatever 13 standards there are; but that it was motivated by 14 performance, I
think you ought to have the 15 opportunity, and may wish to brief that particular 16 issue.
17 Because obviously performance has been an 18 issue with both sides in the presentation of the 19 evidence and Mr. Dambly pointed out yesterday that you 20 are not --
it is not, strictly speaking, relevant to 21 the last action.
And TVA takes somewhat of an all or 22 nothing violation, or no violation position.
23 But if that is helpful in giving you some 24 guidance on the kinds of things that you might want to 25 address in your proposed findings and briefs, after NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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the Hearing, that would be helpful to me.
2 MR. MARQUAND:
Just so I can clarify, I 3
don't disagree with what you said with respect to 4
whether or not posting, whether there was some other 5
issue or reason for the motivation of the posting.
6 ADMINISTRATIVE JUDGE YOUNG:
Right.
7 MR. MARQUAND:
As you know under the 8
Supreme Court's guidance in Title 7 arena, which we 9
look to, to interpret discrimination
- laws, the 10 Plaintiffs, in this case the Staff, has a burden to 11 prove discrimination was the motivating factor.
12 ADMINISTRATIVE JUDGE YOUNG:
Right.
13 MR. MARQUAND:
And it is not enough for 14 them to say that we are wrong with respect to the 15 reason we posted it.
Because we can be wrong and 16 still not have a discriminatory animus.
17 ADMINISTRATIVE JUDGE YOUNG:
That is the 18 point I'm getting to.
19 MR. MARQUAND:
Yes, I agree.
20 ADMINISTRATIVE JUDGE YOUNG:
And that is 21 why I think it ought to be clarified, at this point, 22 that if that were the outcome, I mean, if we were to 23 find those as the facts, I want everyone --
I think it 24 would be helpful for everyone to be clear on that may 25 be an issue that we may need to look at.
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And I wouldn't want to get all your 2
briefs, and have someone not brief the issue because 3
it never was clearly defined, and to make sure that we 4
were all on the same page.
5 MR. MARQUAND:
We certainly understand 6
that that is the law, and that the issue is not 7
whether OPM would say we are right.
This Court does 8
not sit here as an NRC protection board to determine 9
is TVA right or wrong.
10 We are entitled to be wrong, just not 11 discriminatory.
And we understand that.
12 ADMINISTRATIVE JUDGE YOUNG: That is your 13 argument, okay.
14 MR. MARQUAND:
We understand --
15 ADMINISTRATIVE JUDGE YOUNG:
And if both 16 parties understood the argument already, that is fine.
17 And, again, I'm not suggesting in any way how we would 18 rule.
19 But with both of you, rather than being 20 one side at one end of the spectrum, and the other 21 side at the other end of the spectrum, you may want to 22 consider alternatives in the middle, were that the way 23 we were to come down on the facts.
24 If that is helpful, that is good. And if 25 you want to say anything, Mr. Dambly?
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MR. DAMBLY:
The only thing I would say, 2
Your Honor, is that I'm not sure that I agree with the 3
statement of the law.
We've addressed that in the 4
brief. And if they say they did it for X reason, and 5
that doesn't hold water, that is enough, in and of 6
itself, to derive the inference.
7 Reeves overruled the prior case, the St.
8 Mary's case, which would say, no.
In this case if 9
they gave us a reason and it turns out to be false, 10 that is sufficient to draw that the real reason was 11 discrimination.
12 They can't, they don't get the benefit of 13 saying, well we said we did it for this reason, we 14 lied to you, but the real reason was something else, 15 and it wasn't discrimination.
They don't have that 16 option.
17 ADMINISTRATIVE JUDGE YOUNG: I think what 18 we are getting to, here, is the pretext issue.
If 19 there is a prima facie case of discrimination, the 20 company provides a legitimate non-discriminatory 21 reason, then the burden shifts back to the Plaintiff, 22 here the Staff, to establish that the business reason 23 offered by the Defendant, here TVA, was a pretext for 24 discrimination.
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on that particular point, whether you have to show it 2
with a pretext for discrimination, and if the facts 3
were that there was a business reason which may not 4
have been legitimate under RIF regulations, but there 5
were no discrimination, that is the issue I think you 6
ought to have the opportunity to brief.
7 And, quite frankly, I'm not going to 8
suggest how you do it.
But sometimes I find that when 9
issues like these arise it is good just to make sure 10 that everyone knows what they are, and are on the same 11 page, so that you can have the opportunity to address 12 it in your closing arguments and briefs, and proposed 13 findings and conclusions.
14 MR. MARQUAND:
Let me just briefly state.
15 I disagree with counsel, Reeves doesn't overrule St.
16 Mary's, it simply reaffirms it and says --
17 ADMINISTRATIVE JUDGE YOUNG: We don't need 18 to argue that.
19 MR. MARQUAND:
I understand that.
But it 20 does say they still have the burden of proof.
And 21 even if we are wrong, we are entitled to be wrong.
22 And what we've said all along is, this is 23 the reason we had, right or wrong, it was a good faith 24 reason.
25 ADMINISTRATIVE JUDGE YOUNG: You can make NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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3 4
5 6
7 8
9 10 11 12 13 14 15 1 6 1 7 1 8 1 9 2 0 2 1 22 23 24 2 5 I
2486 your arguments later.
Having done a lot of these discrimination
- cases, the law is constantly developing, and there are all sorts of fine nuances.
And so that is why I thought it would be a good idea to just sort of let you know that should it become an issue for us you would have an opportunity to brief it.
Okay, that is all I had to say.
CHAIRMAN BECHHOEFER:
Well, I might add that I believe the parties, to the extent they believe certain evidence supports, or doesn't support their case, they will brief it, they should brief it.
And I'm not sure it is appropriate for a Board to tel parties exactly what, particularly if it is a factual issue, what they should include in their proposed findings.
I think to the extent they wish to do so, they obviously may do so.
So nothing that --
my not joining Ms. Young's statement does not, or Judge Young's statement does not mean I don't find it pertinent.
But I think it should be left to the parties to shape their proposed findings.
And particularly where it involves factual matters.
ADMINISTRATIVE JUDGE YOUNG:
And we are NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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not in disagreement about that.
It is totally up to 2
you all to brief whatever you want, and whatever 3
guidance you can obtain from what I said, you may use 4
it or not use it as you please.
5 MR. MARQUAND: Your Honors, we understand 6
that it is our burden to decide what issues in the 7
case to brief.
But as Your Honors had questions for 8
the witnesses, if you have any questions for us about 9
what we think the issues are, or what is troubling 10 you, or what you need to make the decision, we would 11 be more than happy to address them.
12 CHAIRMAN BECHHOEFER:
Are there further 13 preliminary matters this morning before we resume Mr.
14 Fiser's testimony?
15 (No verbal response.)
16 CHAIRMAN BECHHOEFER: Seeing both counsels 17 shaking their heads, let's bring in Mr. Fiser.
18 Whereupon, 19 GARY L. FISER 20 was recalled as a witness by Counsel for the Staff 21 and, having been previously duly sworn, assumed the 22 witness stand, was examined and testified as follows:
23 CROSS EXAMINATION 24 BY MR. MARQUAND:
25 Q
Mr. Fiser, I'm going to show you Joint NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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Exhibit 27.
2 (Pause.)
3 BY MR. MARQUAND:
4 Q
This has previously been admitted into 5
evidence, and you identified Joint Exhibit as a 6
document called Sequence of Events, which you claimed 7
to have prepared from your memory, from your notes, 8
and from transcribing the surreptitious tapes that you 9
secretly recorded.
Is that right?
10 A
That is correct.
11 Q
Now, yesterday we had a long discussion 12 about whether or not at some point in time you ever 13 learned that your management was dissatisfied with 14 your performance as the Sequoyah chemistry manager.
15 Do you recall that?
16 A
Yes, I do.
17 Q
And I even showed you a statement made by 18 Bill Lagergren, and you said even in 1995, when you 19 read that statement, you did not accept the fact that 20 your management at Sequoyah, or your management 21 period, was dissatisfied with your performance as 22 Sequoyah chemistry manager.
Is that correct?
23 A
That is correct.
24 Q
All right. Now, then your testimony last 25 week was that you began doing this secret tape NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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recording at some point in time when you became aware 2
that things were awry.
Is that right?
3 A
That is correct.
4 Q
What do you mean awry? It was after your 5
service review, right?
6 A
That is correct.
It was --
7 Q
And at some point in time when Wilson 8
McArthur, it was before he suggested, even, that you 9
be removed as corporate chemistry manager, correct?
10 A
I think that was the very conversation 11 that where that statement occurred.
12 Q
You tape recorded that conversation?
13 A
That is correct.
14 Q
All right.
So you began taping before he 15 suggested to you that you come out of the corporate 16 chemistry manager position, right?
17 A
That is correct.
18 Q
So it couldn't have been that suggestion 19 that prompted you to tape record, it had to be 20 something else?
21 A
That is correct.
22 Q
All right.
You received your service 23 review in September of '92, and the first conversation 24 you have here, as tape recorded, is November 16th of 25
'92?
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A That is correct.
2 Q
What prompted you to begin tape recording?
3 A
As I had said earlier I knew something 4
wasn't right, something was awry.
I knew that Dr.
5 McArthur was being told, or forced to do things that 6
he did not feel like were justifiable in his own mind 7
regarding my service review, in particular.
8 So I knew something was not right, I just 9
did not know what.
10 Q
For instance, you knew that you had been 11 ranked with the other managers such that you would not 12 get a performance increase for 1992?
13 A
That is incorrect. I had been ranked such 14 that I would have received a performance increase, but 15 that meeting
- was, as you will
- recall, those 16 discussions were stopped by Mr. Dan Keuter, a vice 17 president wherein he instructed Wilson to place me in 18 a position where I would not get an increase.
19 Q
All right.
Ultimately what happened was 20 that you didn't get a performance increase, correct?
21 A
Ultimately that is correct.
22 Q
And your ranking within the entire 23 operation support organization was such that you 24 didn't get a performance increase?
25 A
I don't know what the ranking was, but I NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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know I did not get one.
2 Q
All right. We've heard testimony that the 3
way the performance increases worked is that all of 4
the individuals on the management schedule, within 5
operations support, were ranked from A to Z, and a 6
curve essentially was applied, and the people at the 7
bottom end of the curve didn't get a performance 8
increase.
9 You were present for that meeting, weren't 10 you?
11 A
That is correct.
12 Q
And it wasn't an issue of Wilson McArthur 13 being able to rank his people and apply a curve to his 14 people.
His people had to be distributed throughout 15 the operation support organization, and the ranking 16 that was done for the entire organization.
17 Were you aware of that?
18 A
I don't think that is true.
19 Q
Were you aware of that?
20 A
No.
21 Q
Because you weren't at the meeting?
22 A
As I've already stated, I was not at the 23 meeting.
24 CHAIRMAN BECHHOEFER:
What did you say?
25 THE WITNESS:
As I've already stated, I NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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was not at that meeting.
2 BY MR. MARQUAND:
3 Q
All right.
So regardless of how Wilson 4
McArthur, if that is the way that the operations 5
support organization determined to distribute 6
performance increases, you wouldn't have any knowledge 7
about how you were ranked relative to the performance 8
of other managers within that organization, would you?
9 A
The only information I had was that with 10 respect to those people that reported directly to Dr.
11 McArthur I was ranked very high.
12 Q
But he could have ranked all of his 13 people very high, couldn't he?
14 A
No, somebody had to be high, and somebody 15 had to be low.
16 Q
Did he tell you --
17 A
I've done this many times in the past with 18 my own people.
And the statement you just made is 19 categorically incorrect.
20 ADMINISTRATIVE JUDGE YOUNG:
You are 21 saying that when you give performance evaluations you 22 could not give everyone good ones, you were somehow 23 required to give, to have some at the top and some at 24 the bottom?
25 THE WITNESS:
At times that is entirely NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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correct.
We were instructed that there would be a 2
certain percentage of people who would be, who would 3
not be ranked high.
That is correct.
4 ADMINISTRATIVE JUDGE YOUNG: Even if they 5
did high performance you are saying that you would 6
still give them a lower mark?
7 THE WITNESS: At times we were instructed, 8
by our management, that a certain percentage of people 9
would not be ranked high.
10 BY MR. MARQUAND:
11 Q
There would be a forced distribution over 12 a bell curve, essentially, correct?
13 A
That is correct.
14 Q
And with respect to your evaluation by Dr.
15 McArthur, isn't it true that what he said was he rated 16 you high, but he didn't tell you how he ranked you 17 with respect to the other people who reported you?
18 A
That is incorrect.
19 Q
What did he tell you that you ranked with 20 respect to, your relative ranking with respect to the 21 other individuals?
22 A
I was told, as I recall, that I was in the 23 top two or three.
24 Q
That is what he told you?
25 A
It was either Dr. McArthur or Mr. Ben NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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Easley, one of the two, or both.
2 Q
Now, in your sequence of events, let's 3
see, Dr. McArthur gave you your service review in 4
September of '92.
In your sequence of events you have 5
no entry reflecting that, did you?
6 A
I don't recall.
7 Q
Well, take a look at page 6 of Joint 8
Exhibit 27.
9 Do you see in the middle of the page 10 August 1992 appraisal; attachment 6, do you see that?
11 A
That is correct.
12 Q
And that is the service review we looked 13 at yesterday that you got from Dr. McArthur?
14 A
That would be consistent, yes.
This says 15 August, and I think that one was in September. Maybe 16 I'm wrong
- there, but that does appear to be 17 consistent.
18 Q
And there is no entry in the August-19 September time frame reflecting your supposed 20 conversation with Dr. McArthur in which he told you 21 your relative ranking among his direct reports?
Is 22 that correct?
23 A
I don't think it was because that was a 24 part of a taped conversation.
25 Q
It is not here in this August --
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August and October, when the service reviews came out, 2
do you see an entry on this page for such a 3
conversation?
4 A
Well, not on that page, but it is part of 5
the transcribed tapes that I did have attached here.
6 Wherein he admitted that I was ranked very high. And, 7
also, one between, as I recall, Mr. Ben Easley where 8
he confirmed that.
9 ADMINISTRATIVE JUDGE YOUNG: You said that 10 is in the transcript in this exhibit here?
11 THE WITNESS:
As I recall, Your Honor, 12 that is correct.
13 ADMINISTRATIVE JUDGE COLE: Mr. Fiser, you 14 indicated that Wilson McArthur said that you were in 15 the top two or three of how many direct reports, how 16 many direct reports did he have?
17 THE WITNESS:
Your Honor, I don't recall 18 specifically.
It seemed like there were seven or 19 eight.
20 CHAIRMAN BECHHOEFER:
Mr. Fiser, let me 21 understand, then.
If you had six brilliant 22 performers, you would have to rate one or two of 23 those, at least, as unsatisfactory, or marginal, or at 24 the bottom of the heap so that those people, even 25 though they were performing better than average, they NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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would not get any performance increases?
2 THE WITNESS:
At times that is what we 3
were instructed to do, yes, sir.
4 CHAIRMAN BECHHOEFER:
I see.
5 BY MR. MARQUAND:
6 Q
At that point in time, in 1992, do you 7
know if in fact the ratings were required to be 8
distributed over a bell curve, or just the rankings 9
were required to be distributed over a bell curve?
10 And let me refresh your recollection.
11 Isn't it true that the forced ratings came about when 12 Marvin Runyon was the chairman, and there were no 13 forced ratings in 1992, only forced rankings?
14 A
Well, I don't know, since I was not a part 15 of those proceedings, I cannot say.
I can say that it 16 was customary for there to be forced ratings and 17 rankings in the group.
18 ADMINISTRATIVE JUDGE YOUNG: Both, you are 19 saying both ratings and --
20 THE WITNESS:
At times that is correct, 21 yes, Your Honor.
22 ADMINISTRATIVE JUDGE YOUNG:
At times, 23 meaning some times?
24 THE WITNESS:
Yes, some times the word 25 would come down that these ratings and rankings would NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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be forced. And this was verbally communicated to us, 2
as I recall.
It may have been in writing, I don't 3
know.
4 But at times we had to target a certain 5
percentage to be in --
to be forced into this bell 6
shaped curve that they are referring to.
7 ADMINISTRATIVE JUDGE YOUNG: Well, say if 8
you had, I think it was a 4 point scale on here.
Say 9
you had six people, and they were 3.1, 3.2, 3.3, 3.5, 10 3.8, 4. So they would all be good scorers, but there 11 might be a forced ranking in that only --
how many of 12 those six would, for
- example, get a raise, a
13 performance raise?
14 Which is, if I'm not using the right word, 15 but which is what I understand was at issue in this 16
'92 appraisal.
Whether you would get a performance 17 raise.
18 THE WITNESS:
How many would get a 19 performance raise?
20 ADMINISTRATIVE JUDGE YOUNG:
Right.
21 THE WITNESS:
I really could not answer 22 that.
It depends on the circumstances and the 23 guidance from upper management at the time. And since 24 I was not a part of it I really could not answer that 25 question.
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ADMINISTRATIVE JUDGE YOUNG:
Okay.
2 BY MR. MARQUAND:
3 Q
Let me refer you to page 20 of your 4
sequence of events.
This is a conversation you 5
supposedly had with Dr. McArthur, is that right?
6 A
That is correct.
7 Q
Look at the bottom, look at the middle of 8
the page where Dr. McArthur says, I can tell you very, 9
and then there are some omissions, I shouldn't tell 10 you that kind of thing, where I, more omissions.
11 And then you said, well, it wasn't you.
12 Well he made it very, more omissions, he just said, 13 omissions.
At one point in time we were ranking 14 people, omissions.
And he said, I want to put Gary 15 Fiser on no increase, I said why? He said that is my 16 decision, end of discussion.
17 There is no discussion in there by Dr.
18 McArthur that you were ranked two, or three, or that 19 your ranking, your relative ranking among his direct 20 reports was very high, only that he was told by Dan 21 Keuter to rank you low enough to put you on no 22 increase, correct?
23 A
That is correct.
And what he was 24 referring to was the fact that I had just brought that 25 to his attention, where he had me ranked very high in NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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Q Does he say in here that he ranked you two or three among his direct reports? He does not, does he?
A As a matter of fact he did.
The problem was --
Q He did? Why isn't in your transcript?
A No, you are incorrect, let me answer the question.
As a matter of fact he did tell me that.
But, as I have stated to you before, if I could not clearly hear it on the tape, I did not include it in this transcript.
As much as I wanted to I would not include stuff that I could not clearly hear and understand.
So you are incorrect.
He did in fact say that.
But since I could not hear it, I could not include it. And I did not want this document to be misleading in that regard.
Q So it is --
ADMINISTRATIVE JUDGE COLE:
You couldn't get it off the tape?
THE WITNESS: That is correct. Now I may be able --
CHAIRMAN BECHHOEFER:
omissions here, perhaps the --
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9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 2500 THE WITNESS:
Yes, Your Honor. Plus there is the possibility that I could go back now and listen to the enhanced tape and pick that out.
I don't know if I could or not.
BY MR. MARQUAND:
Q Well, we went through the exercise last week of listening to the enhanced version, and we couldn't hear anything any better than is in your transcript.
A Well, I listened to some tapes where I, indeed, could hear more information than is here.
Q Now, we began this discussion by me asking you what prompted you to do taping.
A Right.
Q And you said, well it couldn't have been Dr. McArthur saying you were going to come out of the corporate chemistry job, because you tape recorded that conversation.
And you tape recorded the conversation where he told you Dan Keuter said not to give you an increase.
So now my question is, what prompted you to begin the tape recording?
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That is when, I guess, I got the strong sense that something was awry, and I needed to try to find out what was going on.
I think that is what I said earlier.
Q We are trying to establish the chronological sequence.
In this November 16th, '92 conversation you had with Mr. McArthur is where he tells you that Keuter says he didn't want you to have an increase.
So something had to prompt you to have tape recorded that conversation. And my question is, what was it?
A The fact that he was forced to write a service review --
Q No, you tape recorded that tape conversation.
What prompted you to tape record that conversation?
A The fact that he was forced --
ADMINISTRATIVE JUDGE YOUNG:
How did you know that fact?
THE WITNESS:
How did I know --
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being told to mark you, or to not give you an 2
increase?
3 THE WITNESS:
I heard that directly from 4
Mr. Ben Easley, my personnel manager.
And I had 5
already heard parts of it even from Dr. McArthur, when 6
he told me that he was going to have to rewrite that 7
service review in August-September to support not 8
giving me an increase.
9 And he was, or he at least reported to me, 10 that he was not happy about having been forced to do 11 that, about having to do that.
So that is how I found 12 out.
13 ADMINISTRATIVE JUDGE YOUNG: But were you, 14 at that point, you had already seen, or you knew that 15 there was already an evaluation, or a performance 16 appraisal, that had been marked with higher marks, and 17 then he said he had to rewrite; did you ever see the 18 first one?
19 THE WITNESS: I did not see the first one.
20 He just was upset about the fact that he was having 21 to, as he put it, and as I recall, he was having to 22 rewrite the service review to support the conclusion 23 that Dan Keuter told him he wanted to come out of this 24 review.
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conversations to find out what the heck was going on 2
behind my back.
3 BY MR. MARQUAND:
4 Q
Mr.
- Fiser, there is nothing in this 5
conversation with Dr. McArthur, that you recorded, 6
where he said he had to rewrite your service review, 7
only that Dan Keuter wanted him to rank you lower with 8
respect to the other direct reports.
9 A
I told you that was a conversation I had 10 with Dr. McArthur.
11 Q
Why didn't you make a note of that?
12 A
Why didn't I make a note of that?
13 Q
Yes. You have the sequence of events you 14 said you compiled from your notes.
Why didn't you 15 have a note of that prior to the November 16th, '92 16 conversation, why didn't you make an entry for that?
17 A
I don't know. I may have had one and just 18 forgot to put it in there.
I may have had notes of it 19 in my day planner, or something, and just failed to 20 put it in there.
21 Q
Now, you produced your day planner, and we 22 have those day planners, and we've looked, and we 23 can't find it, Mr. Fiser.
24 A
That doesn't mean it wasn't there.
You 25 thumbed through it very quickly.
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Q No, I think we spent two days in your 2
deposition.
3 A
Yes, and you had a lot to go through.
4 Q
Now, you began tape recording in November 5
of '92, correct?
6 A
Correct.
7 Q
You didn't begin taping sooner?
8 A
Not that I recall, no.
9 Q
And according to this sequence of events 10 there are conversations that you taped as late as July 11 14th of 1993, which -- and that one begins on page 78.
12 Do you see that?
13 A
Yes, I do.
14 Q
Did you make any tape recordings after 15 that?
16 A
I don't recall any recordings after that.
17 Q
Now, you were concerned about your future 18 employment at TVA, is that right?
19 A
I was concerned about the service review 20 that I had received, yes.
21 Q
You were concerned about your service 22 review, and you were taping Dr. McArthur and Ben 23 Easley, initially, to try to find out the basis for 24 the service review you got?
25 A
That is correct.
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3 4
5 6
7 8
9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 2505 Q
You weren't tape recording anything in furtherance of pursuit of any safety related concern, were you?
A I didn't know where it would lead.
Q Well, I mean, there is no discussion in these conversations about any safety concern, is there?
In your discussion with Dr. McArthur, in November 16th, '92, that begins on page 6, is there discussion of any safety related concern?
A Is there --
let's see.
Q You've got the document in front of you, take a look if you need to.
A Okay.
(Witness reviews document.)
BY MR. MARQUAND:
Q Have you finished looking?
A No, I'm still looking.
(Witness reviews document.)
BY MR. MARQUAND:
Q Well, I've looked from page 6 to 26 of your sequence, which includes the November 16th, 1992 conversation, and I don't see it.
Do you see anything related to any specific safety related concern that you were seeking to pursue with Dr. McArthur?
A There was a point in time when we were NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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required to enter a bunch of information into TROI, 2
that is --
3 Q
We know what TROI is, it is a tracking, 4
reporting of open items.
5 A
And I can't remember if that was in here.
6 Now, and again, the problem that I have is if you use 7
the corrective action process --
8 Q
I'm not talking about your generalization, 9
and your problems that you think management had with 10 you.
I'm talking about this conversation with Dr.
11 McArthur. You weren't discussing with him a specific 12 safety related concern.
13 You were talking about
- your, how 14 management perceived your performance, and your 15 service review, and whether you got an increase or 16 not, and whether you are going to go back to chemistry 17 at Sequoyah, isn't that right?
18 A
That is partially correct, I'm not sure it 19 is completely correct until I look at the document.
20 Q
Now, moving on to page 29, there is a 21 November 19, 1992 --
22 MS. EUCHNER: Objection, Your Honor. Mr.
23 Fiser has indicated that he still hasn't had a chance 24 to completely review that conversation.
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about whether there was a safety concern, rather than 2
just having Mr. Marquand's statement stand.
3 ADMINISTRATIVE JUDGE YOUNG: Well, I think 4
probably the document speaks for itself.
5 BY MR. MARQUAND:
6 Q
If you look at page 29, Mr. Fiser --
7 CHAIRMAN BECHHOEFER:
Had you completed 8
your review for the previous question?
9 THE WITNESS:
No, sir, I had not.
10 CHAIRMAN BECHHOEFER: I think he should be 11 allowed to.
12 MR. MARQUAND:
That is fine.
13 CHAIRMAN BECHHOEFER: Just to complete his 14 answer.
15 MR. MARQUAND:
That is fine.
I think in 16 that situation, Your Honor, the record will be very 17 clear whether or not he thinks that there is a safety 18 related concern, a particular safety related concern 19 he was trying to discuss with Dr. McArthur.
20 (Witness reviews document.)
21 THE WITNESS: After reviewing the document 22 what I see here is a vain attempt by Dr. McArthur, and 23 myself, to try to ascertain the reasons for the, 24 either the service review, or the fact that he was 25 being asked to demote me.
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So I would have to agree with you.
At 2
this point we did not, either one of us, I think, have 3
a clue as to what was going on.
4 BY MR. MARQUAND:
5 Q
Yesterday, towards the end of the day, 6
counsel asked you whether or not you had considered 7
Wilson McArthur to be your friend and ally at some 8
point in time.
And then asked you did you later 9
change your opinion.
10 And you went through a long discussion at 11 which point you concluded that he lied to your face, 12 and telling you one thing, and doing something else 13 behind your back.
Do you recall that?
14 A
Yes, I do.
15 Q
Do you think that secretly tape recording 16 a conversation with your friend is the act of a 17 friend?
18 A
Is the act of a friend?
19 A
Yes, do you think that your actions in 20 secretly tape recording your conversations with Dr.
21 McArthur were the acts of a friend?
22 A
I can tell you that I have been recorded 23 by friends before and it didn't bother me.
24 Q
That doesn't answer my question.
25 ADMINISTRATIVE JUDGE YOUNG:
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6 7
8 9
10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 bother you?
THE WITNESS:
It did not bother me.
ADMINISTRATIVE JUDGE YOUNG:
They did it without your knowledge and you later found out?
THE WITNESS:
That is correct.
And that didn't bother me because I try never to say anything, whether I was being taped or not, that was not true.
So let them tape.
BY MR. MARQUAND:
Q Let's turn to page 71 of Joint Exhibit 27.
A Page what?
Q
- 71.
I'm sorry, that is the wrong page.
Turn further over to the last one, I believe that this is in July.
July 14th, it is page 78.
A Okay.
Q And you've got a date on there of July 14th, 1993?
A That is correct.
Q What was going, tell the Court what was going on in Dr. McArthur's life at that point in time.
A He had returned to work from some surgery, or something.
Q Surgery for what?
A As I recall it was lung cancer.
Q And how long had he been out?
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A I don't know.
2 Q
A considerable period?
3 A
I don't know.
4 Q
More than a week?
5 A
I don't recall.
I'm sure he was, because 6
he was in the hospital.
7 Q
Now, in this conversation, the, when this 8
conversation occurred, how long had he been back at 9
work?
10 A
I think that was the day he came back, I 11 think it was the day.
12 Q
The first day?
13 A
I'm not sure.
14 Q
The first day he came back.
And the 15 conversation begins off with Dr. McArthur asking you 16 how you are doing, and he says:
How did they get you 17 in here.
Do you see that?
18 A
That is correct.
19 Q
What is that in reference to, what does 20 that mean? Are you sure he was at work?
21 A
Absolutely, without question. We were in 22 his office.
23 Q
How did they get you in here, what does 24 that mean?
25 A
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10 11 12 13 14 15 1 6 1 7 18 1 9 2 0 2 1 22 2 3 24 25 program at Q
A Q
offices?
that time.
You were still a TVA employee, right?
That is correct.
And you had access to TVA buildings and A
That is correct.
Q So when he says, how do they get you in here, what is that in reference to? I mean, this was in a TVA office, right?
A That is correct.
Q What is it in reference to?
A I don't have a clue.
I think in passing it was more said in jest or joking.
Q Was Dr. McArthur through with his cancer treatment?
A Well, I don't have a clue.
Q Well, look further down the page. Didn't you ask him?
A I know that he had made mention of the fact that they were going to have to do some surgery or cut on him, and I was shocked to hear that.
Q And he, in fact, mentioned that he was going to be getting radiation treatments?
A That is correct, later on.
Q The first day back at work?
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A That is correct.
2 Q
And do you think, you were tape recording 3
that conversation?
4 A
I was, yes.
5 ADMINISTRATIVE JUDGE YOUNG:
Pardon?
6 THE WITNESS:
I was, that is correct.
7 BY MR. MARQUAND:
8 Q
Was that the act of a friend?
9 A
At that time I had some doubts as to 10 whether he really was, I didn't know.
11 Q
No, was your act in tape recording him the 12 act of a friend?
13 A
Yes, it was, because I still considered 14 him my friend.
And I still considered Bill Lagergren 15 my friend, and I tape recorded him too.
16 Q
Who?
17 A
Bill Lagergren.
18 Q
I guess some people have different 19 standards than others, don't they?
20 A
Yes, some people --
21 MS. EUCHNER:
Your Honor, I'm going to 22 object to that question.
That is an irrelevant 23 question here.
24 THE WITNESS:
Would you object to having 25 your people follow Ron Grover's kids around?
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BY MR. MARQUAND:
2 Q
I'm asking the questions, Mr. Fiser.
3 A
Sorry.
4 ADMINISTRATIVE JUDGE YOUNG: Let's try to 5
get back on track.
6 BY MR. MARQUAND:
7 Q
So you were tape recording at least from 8
November through July, November of '92 through July of 9
'93.
WE've just looked at two conversations with Dr.
10 McArthur.
11 A
That is correct.
12 Q
And during this time frame you were 13 concerned about your continued employment with TVA?
14 A
At first I was concerned about the service 15 review that I had received, where Wilson McArthur was 16 forced to write one that he indicated he was not in 17 favor of.
18 Q
Now, on page 78, at the beginning of that 19 conversation with Dr. McArthur, on July 14th, the 20 first day back after his cancer surgery.
Do you see 21 anything in that conversation which you were tape 22 recording, of Dr. McArthur, dealing with a specific 23 nuclear safety concern?
24 A
I will have to look at it again.
25 Q
Please do.
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(Witness reviews document.)
2 CHAIRMAN BECHHOEFER:
Page 78?
3 MR. MARQUAND:
Beginning on page 78, and 4
it looks like that conversation continues through page 5
81.
6 (Witness reviews document.)
7 THE WITNESS:
I think indirectly yes, I 8
do.
9 BY MR. MARQUAND:
10 Q
Please enlighten me.
11 A
Among other
- things, as I've already 12 recalled --
13 Q
Where?
14 A
In entering a bunch of chemistry problems 15 into the TROI, the computerized data base, also in 16 sending a letter to Senator Sasser, where I had 17 discussed some problems at Sequoyah, I had --
let's 18 see, I can't remember at this time.
19 I was in the process, at this time, of 20 drawing up the, my submittal to the Department of 21 Labor and contacting attorneys. And I think that when 22 I sent that information --
23 Q
Mr. Fiser, the question was, where in the 24 transcript of this conversation, were you raising a 25 specific nuclear safety concern?
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2 3
4 5
6 7
8 9
10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 A
Q A
Q A
- McArthur, of the fac I said indirectly.
Okay, show me indirectly where.
Where Mr. Joe Bynum --
Which page?
Right here on page 18, when I asked Wilson let's see, hang on one second.
(Witness reviews document.)
THE WITNESS:
You know, you make mention
!t that this was --
BY MR. MARQUAND:
Q Can you answer the question?
A I am answering the question, I told you it was indirect.
Q Where on page 78?
A You make mention of the fact that Dr.
McArthur, this was his first day back at work --
Q Can you answer the question, then you can explain your answer.
Where on page 78 does it refer to nuclear safety concern that you were pursuing?
A It does not, I said it was indirect, and I'm trying to explain that, if you will give me a chance.
Q Can you show us where the language is that indirectly refers to it?
And then you can explain your answer.
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A Where it says that Dr. McArthur talked to 2
Mr. Joe Bynum, and that subsequently led to the denial 3
of my being able to take my job back at Sequoyah. And 4
the reason is why.
5 Q
Is your taking your job back at Sequoyah 6
a pursuit of a nuclear safety concern?
7 A
If indeed it is because I raised issues 8
with a U.S. Congressman, yes, I think it is.
9 Q
All right. You are talking about a letter 10 sent to Senator James Sasser, written by yourself, 11 Bill Jocher, and Dr. Ralph Matthews?
12 A
Yes.
And I'm also talking about all the 13 entries that I made into --
14 Q
Let's just deal with --
15 A
TROI.
16 Q
one at a time.
You mentioned the 17 letter to Sasser, and I'm just trying to confirm what 18 that letter to Sasser is.
19 Is that what you are talking about?
You 20 said you sent a letter to a congressman.
21 A
That is the letter I'm talking about.
I 22 don't recall the exact date, it would be either --
23 Q
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letter?
2 A
Yes, and that is what --
3 ADMINISTRATIVE JUDGE YOUNG:
Hold on one 4
second.
5 (Interruption.)
6 BY MR. MARQUAND:
7 Q
Mr. Fiser, if I told you that the date of 8
the letter was dated August 16th, 1993, would that 9
refresh your recollection?
10 A
Yes, it would, that is what I was looking 11 for.
12 Q
And the letter then was sent some two 13 months after this conversation with Dr. McArthur?
14 A
That is correct, even though there had 15 been verbal discussions of that
- letter, of the 16 contents of that letter before.
Plus the fact that I 17 had entered over 100 items into TROI.
18 And I think using the corrective action 19 process, and documenting problems at Sequoyah is what 20 gets you into trouble with upper management.
And I 21 would relate that --
22 Q
That is not what you said in your 23 conversation with Dr.
- McArthur, what you were 24 concerned about --
25 A
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related.
And I believe that that poisoned the well, 2
so to speak, by using the corrective action process.
3 So indirectly, yes, I think it is a safety related 4
issue, although nobody would come out and say that.
5 Q
- Now, in this conversation with Dr.
6 McArthur, about two thirds of the way down on page 78, 7
you talk about a call from Charles.
You are talking 8
about Charles Kent there, right?
9 A
That is correct.
10 Q
Let's go back to page 73.
And at page 73 11 is a reference to a conversation on May 5, 1993 with 12 Charles Kent, correct?
13 A
That is correct.
14 Q
And at that point in time you were calling 15 him to enquire about the possibility of a position 16 working for him, is that right?
17 A
That is correct.
18 Q
Now, to make it clear, it says, he is the 19 chemistry RADCON manager at Sequoyah?
20 A
That is correct.
21 Q
Until the spring of 1993 he had been the 22 radiological control manager at Sequoyah, right?
23 A
That is correct.
24 Q
And chemistry reported to operations?
25 A
That is correct.
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Q And at some time in the spring chemistry 2
was reorganized and was placed under Charles Kent, who 3
became the radiological control and chemistry manager 4
at Sequoyah, right?
5 A
That is correct.
6 Q
And in May of '93 you had already received 7
a surplus notice, and you were in the employee 8
transition program?
9 A
That is correct.
10 Q
All right. So you were looking for a job, 11 and you called Charles Kent.
Was there a vacant 12 position posted anywhere that prompted you to call him 13 about that?
14 A
I do not recall if there was or not. I do 15 recall having discussions with management of the ETP 16 program, Mr. Mannis and Mr. Brock, and it was their 17 opinion that since, indeed, my job --
this was based 18 on a letter we received from a Mr. Eytchison, and I 19 think --
20 Q
You are getting ahead --
21 A
of Mr. Joe Bynum.
22 Q
You are getting ahead of us 23 chronologically. I'm talking about May 5. May 5, all 24 I ask you was the reason that prompted you to call was 25 that there was a vacant position posted, or not?
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A I can't recall.
2 Q
Then you made another attempt to call 3
Charles Kent on May 7th, is that right?
It refers to 4
the --
5 CHAIRMAN BECHHOEFER:
Does 1452 refer to 6
Mr. Kent?
7 MR. MARQUAND:
Yes.
8 BY MR. MARQUAND:
9 Q
Where it says:
Asking to speak to him.
10 That refers to Charles Kent too, doesn't it?
11 A
That does.
And the 1452 is the time of 12 day.
13 Q
But the pronoun him refers to Charles 14 Kent?
15 A
Yes, that is correct.
16 Q
And then there is an entry for May 10th 17 where it says Charles Kent called you, correct?
18 A
Yes.
19 Q
All right.
The May 5, the May 7th, and 20 the May 10th entries are not transcriptions of any 21 tape recordings you made, correct?
22 A
That is correct.
23 Q
And did you tape record this May 10, 1993 24 conversation?
It doesn't appear so, does it?
25 A
No, I don't recall.
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3 4
5 6
7 8
9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 2521 Q
Either you tape recorded it and you didn't transcribe it, or you didn't tape it.
A I don't think I taped that conversation at all.
Q
- You, in addition to face to face conversations, you were also tape recording telephonic conversations?
A At times, yes.
Q And this was a time when you were calling Charles Kent, and you were interested in pursuing a job in the organization which you had been surplused out of, out of the chemistry organization?
A Well, I was --
let's see, I was in the corporate organization when I was surplused.
Q Doesn't the surplus notice say you have been surplused out of the Sequoyah chemistry manager' s job?
A Q
chemistry Sequoyah A
Q conversat A
It does.
You had been surplused out of the Sequoyah r manager job, and you are pursuing a job at chemistry, correct?
That is correct.
But you say you didn't tape record that ion?
That is correct.
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Q Now, the May 10th conversation, you assert 2
here that Charles Kent called you and said that the 3
organization had been standardized, and that there was 4
a RADCON and chemistry manager job.
That is him, 5
right?
6 He is the RADCON and chemistry manager, 7
right?
8 A
Yes.
9 Q
And then he says: He further said he was 10 recruiting for the technical support manager job. Do 11 you see that?
12 A
That is correct.
13 Q
Now, the technical support manager would 14 be one notch below the chemistry manager, right, in 15 the organizational chart?
16 A
I think that is correct.
17 Q
All right.
And then do you see the 18 statement: He further stated that Rob Beecken was not 19 of the opinion that I was not aggressive enough.
Do 20 you see that?
21 A
That is correct.
22 Q
Double negative.
23 A
Let's see.
24 Q
The last sentence in the entry for May 10, 25 1993, on page --
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2 3
4 5
6 7
8 9
10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 A
That is correct.
Q In other words, he was --
he had checked with Rob Beecken, because supposedly you had been criticized for not being aggressive enough?
A That is correct.
Q And Rob Beecken didn't have that opinion?
A That is what he told me, yes.
Q All right.
Are you sure of that?
A Yes, I am.
I'm sure that was Charles' opinion.
Q Did Charles tell you he had checked with Beecken, and Beecken did not have that opinion?
A Well, he didn't come out in those exact words, but that is certainly what he was trying to communicate to me.
ADMINISTRATIVE JUDGE YOUNG:
Let me understand.
The May 10th entry says Rob Beecken was not of the opinion --
oh, Kent says that Rob Beecken was not of the opinion that you were not aggressive enough?
THE WITNESS: That is correct, Your Honor.
BY MR. MARQUAND:
Q And to make it
- clear, this double negative, you had heard criticisms that you were not aggressive enough?
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A
- Yes, that was after the December 2
conversation I had with, directly with Mr. Beecken.
3 Q
So you had heard those criticisms.
And 4
here Kent is saying, I checked with Beecken and no, he 5
doesn't have that opinion?
6 A
That is what he expressed to me, yes.
7 Q
And you are certain that that is correct?
8 A
I am certain that that is his opinion of 9
his conversations, or whatever, with Mr. Beecken.
10 Q
Okay. And did you make any --
you didn't 11 tape record this, so we don't have a tape recording of 12 it?
13 A
That is correct.
14 Q
Let me show you TVA exhibit 123.
Mr.
15
- Fiser, I've handed you TVA exhibit 123.
I will 16 represent to you that this was an exhibit at your 17 deposition, and it was a copy of a page from your 18 Franklin planner for May 10th, 1993. Is that correct?
19 A
That is correct.
20 Q
If you will look at paragraph 2 on this 21 entry, do you see where it says: Charles Kent, colon?
22 A
Yes.
23 Q
Do you see where it says: Standardize the 24 organization, and it is approved?
25 A
Yes.
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Q Do you see where it says, it includes a 2
RADCON chemistry manager job.
He is recruiting the 3
tech support manager.
Do you see that?
4 A
That is correct.
5 Q
Then do you see where it says:
Rob 6
Beecken, he did not have the opinion that I was, and 7
then there is a word not, inserted --
8 A
That is correct.
9 Q
aggressive enough.
Do you see that?
10 A
That is correct.
11 Q
And doesn't it appear to you that the word 12 not is written in a finer line of either pen or pencil 13 than the rest of the words, and that it has been 14 inserted?
15 A
It has been inserted.
I don't know if it 16 was pen or pencil.
17 Q
But it does appear that it is also written 18 in a finer line, suggesting that it might have even 19 been written in a different ink, or with a different 20 instrument?
21 A
No, that is incorrect, I would not say 22 that at all.
23 Q
You do not agree that the line, the 24 thickness of the line, and the strength of the line 25 for the word not is different than the rest of the NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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words on that page?
2 A
No, I would not.
Look at the word he, it 3
is not as strong as the word aggressive.
4 Q
And you agree the word not was inserted?
5 A
I do agree that the word not was inserted.
6 MR. MARQUAND:
Your Honors, I tender TVA 7
exhibit 123.
8 MS. EUCHNER:
No objection, Your Honors.
9 CHAIRMAN BECHHOEFER:
Without objection 10 TVA 123 will be admitted.
11 (The document referred to, 12 having been previously marked 13 for identification as TVA 14 Exhibit No. 123 was received in 15 evidence.)
16 BY MR. MARQUAND:
17 Q
So you wrote down here, according to you, 18 that Beecken didn't have the opinion that you were not 19 aggressive enough?
20 A
That is correct.
21 Q
All right.
Did that not come as a 22 surprise to you?
23 A
Yes, it did.
24 Q
In fact when we look at Joint Exhibit 27 25 you had --
yesterday you told us that this came as a NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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shock to you when you heard that management was --
it 2
comes as a shock to you now when you hear that 3
management was dissatisfied with your performance at 4
Sequoyah, right?
5 A
Repeat that question?
6 Q
Well, I asked you yesterday, in 1995, when 7
you read Pat Lydon's statement, where he said that you 8
were not effective, that the chemistry program at 9
Sequoyah was inadequate, you didn't agree with that, 10 and that was a surprise to you?
11 A
As a matter of fact I believe his words 12 were completely different from that.
It said that 13 Bynum was of the opinion that I was not competent.
14 Q
And so in 1995, when you saw the statement 15 by Lydon where it said that Bynum and Beecken wanted 16 Lydon to fire you because you were not competent, that 17 was a surprise to you?
18 A
Absolutely, I never heard that before in 19 my life.
So you see, you have interchanged words 20 here, and tried to get me to say something that was 21 not true.
22 Q
When Lydon described, when you read the 23 fact where it says:
Lydon described the chemistry 24 program as "unbelievably bad", that was a surprise to 25 you?
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9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 1 7 1 8 19 2 0 2 1 22 2 3 2 4 25 2528 A
No.
What we had discussed was --
I don't think, since he had only been there a few weeks, that he had a good grasp. This is the same man, as you pointed out, that was calling chemistry traffic control, chemistry upgrade.
He did not understand --
Q You are not --
A the terms --
Q You are digressing.
A and the terminology.
How can you expect him to understand what is meant by the chemistry program, if he doesn't --
Q This is --
A even understand things that are outside the chemistry program?
Q You are assuming he doesn't understand that.
This is somebody else's --
A By his own words --
Q this is somebody else's notes of that conversation.
A So we can't trust those, I see.
ADMINISTRATIVE JUDGE YOUNG: Let's try to get to questions, answers.
BY MR. MARQUAND:
Q When you read Mr. Lydon's statement, in NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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1995, that you were taken out in order to allow Jocher 2
to see if he could fix these longstanding problems, 3
that was a surprise to you?
4 A
I think I had already heard that from Dr.
5 McArthur in the appraisal that he was forced to write.
6 So no, I can't say that was a surprise.
7 Q
When we went through your service reviews 8
yesterday, and we asked you whether or not you agreed 9
or not with whether or not you were effective at 10 Sequoyah, that was a surprise, you didn't agree with 11 those?
12 A
In 1989, the one by Mr. Steve Smith?
13 Q
Or 1990, or even now?
14 A
No, no, no.
That was the one in 1989 by 15 Mr. Steve Smith.
16 Q
All right.
When you were in --
17 A
And I think I pretty clearly delineated, 18 for you, the reasons I was in disagreement with what 19 Mr. Smith had said in that service review, yes.
20 Q
When you were in the downtown corporate 21 chemistry organization did anybody ever tell you that 22 you were not aggressive enough as Sequoyah chemistry 23 manager?
24 A
As I recall in my discussions with Dr.
25 McArthur in November of '92, his statement was, as he NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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was grabbing at straws to try to figure out how to 2
explain why he was doing the things he was doing, he 3
made mention of the fact that the chemistry problems 4
at Sequoyah were being blamed on me.
That is what I 5
recall.
6 Q
But yesterday when I asked you about that 7
you said, well, that wasn't first hand, so you didn't 8
accept that, that you were the responsible party.
9 A
I think we would have to look at that 10 testimony.
11 ADMINISTRATIVE JUDGE YOUNG: We would have 12 to what?
13 THE WITNESS:
We would have to look at 14 that testimony because --
15 BY MR. MARQUAND:
16 Q
Well, let me ask --
17 A
I think that you are, once again, being 18 misleading in your statement.
19 Q
Let me ask you this, without referring to 20 your testimony.
When you talked to Dr. McArthur and 21 he told you that you were being blamed for the 22 chemistry problems at Sequoyah --
23 A
He did make that statement, yes.
24 Q
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effective manager?
2 A
Not at that time, no, I didn't.
3 Q
So even though he told you that, you did 4
not accept it?
5 A
As a matter of fact that is why I set up 6
the meeting with Mr. Rob Beecken.
7 Q
You had a meeting with Rob Beecken, he was 8
the plant manager at Sequoyah, right?
9 A
That is correct.
10 Q
And Mr. Beecken told you, among other 11 things, that chemistry was broken, and that he wanted 12 it fixed, correct?
13 A
Among other things, yes.
14 Q
And he told you that as far as he was 15 concerned the question is, that the issue was not did 16 you find it out, and it wasn't good enough for you to 17 find something out after the fact, he wanted you to 18 have it fixed, and not to have chemistry be an issue?
19 A
As I recall that was a part of the 20 conversation, yes.
21 Q
And then he told you that the program was 22 less than fully effective for a long time while you 23 were there?
24 A
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2 3
4 5
6 7
8 9
10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 regarding that.
Q He told you, with respect to the chemistry manager position, he told you he wanted somebody who was very sharp in chemistry, and a guy who is very effective?
A At times those conversations did come up.
But I think when he was talking about somebody who was sharp in chemistry he was referring to the technicians, because he wanted somebody to come in and to be able to evaluate them, and walk away and say, you know, I won't use his exact words, but he said, boy these guys are sharp.
Q But he also told you he wanted a manager who was very effective, and is going to hold his people to standards? In other words hold those people accountable?
A Well, can you just refer to the statement, and we will look at --
Q Look at page 54.
A Okay.
Q There is, in the middle of the page, some statements by Mr. Beecken, in the last paragraph, in the middle of the page, statements by Mr. Beecken.
He says:
Well, yes, I'm upset with you.
I said, okay if I bring Gary back, the same old NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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routine.
I guess I want to get somebody, in my mind, 2
very, very sharp in chemistry, a guy that is real 3
effective and is going to hold his people to 4
standards.
5 He is talking about a chemistry manager 6
there, isn't he? And then if he brings you back he is 7
going to get the same old routine?
8 A
That is what he indicated at this time, 9
yes.
10 Q
All right.
And didn't he also tell you 11 that as far as he was concerned chemistry was broken, 12 things weren't being fixed, and he wanted to get it 13 fixed. And then he told you, how am I going to get it 14 fixed?
15 And then he made the rhetorical statement, 16 make the same guy that was here when I said it was 17 weak, broken, and in trouble, get by and let him get 18 back?
19 A
Yes, until I reminded him that when I was 20 there we had no INPO findings and no concerns.
And 21 then he makes this statement, on page 58, but I want 22 to make sure we get an objective viewpoint, and I'm 23 not getting it.
24 You know, I'm getting older, and I 25 couldn't pick that out.
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9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 1 7 1 8 1 9 2 0 2 1 2 2 2 3 2 4 2 5 2534 but he says, this is dicked-up, that is dicked up. So I want to make sure that I'm objective and fully forthright, and I will make the right choice, I have to make the right choice.
This is all I want to do, is to make the right, blank, choice.
I want chemistry, I want a strong, solid, fundamental chemistry program.
I don't want all the bells and whistles, I don't need any adjunct professors.
This is some stuff that --
What he had told me there, essentially, he was going to go back and talk to Wilson McArthur and see if, as a matter of fact I think he makes mention of the fact, see if he is just being crass, or just being unobjective, or just making a decision based upon anger.
Because I truly do not think that he had made the connection that when I was there we did not have findings and concerns. I don't think he had made the connection.
I had been gone, at this point, almost two years.
That had not crossed his mind.
And so he was second-guessing himself as to whether he was acting rationally or not.
Q He said --
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had been there, there were no findings, and that the 2
things he was concerned about had occurred when you 3
were not there?
4 THE WITNESS:
Yes, Your Honor, I did.
5 ADMINISTRATIVE JUDGE YOUNG:
Is that in 6
there?
7 THE WITNESS:
Yes, Your Honor, it is.
8 ADMINISTRATIVE JUDGE YOUNG: Can you tell 9
me where?
10 THE WITNESS: Yes, I can, I will just have 11 to look at this conversation.
12 (Witness reviews document.)
13 THE WITNESS:
If you will look, even on 14 page 50, right at the beginning of our conversation --
15 ADMINISTRATIVE JUDGE YOUNG:
Page 50?
16 THE WITNESS:
Yes, Your Honor. Basically 17 he asked me what I'm doing there. I had arranged this 18 meeting at six o'clock in the morning, after working 19 out there until, like, two o'clock in the morning, on 20 a problem, went home.
21 The only time he would meet with me was at 22 that time, that is the only time I could get him.
So 23 I went back out at six, or thereabouts.
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he says, what, what do you want to talk about?
I 2
said, what is the matter, I just wanted to find out 3
what is going on.
Obviously I feel that you are upset 4
with me for something.
5 I wanted a perfect INPO evaluation, that 6
is how come.
And he goes on.
And then the next 7
statement is, let me say something about that Rob.
I 8
honestly believe that if I had been here you may have 9
had one finding, not three.
I may have been able to 10 get you out of the equipment problem again, but I 11 can't state that unequivocally, because we had an 12 excursion the first day they were
- here, as I
13 understood.
14 And we went into action level 2, and DO 15 because somebody jerked some bags off the, there were 16 some valves that they had -- and so I had made mention 17 of the fact that I was not even there.
18 And then later on, let me find it.
19 (Witness reviews document.)
20 BY MR. MARQUAND:
21 Q
Look at page 57, about halfway down, isn't 22 that your reference to the fact that you didn't think 23 that INPO was making findings when you were there, Mr.
24 Fiser?
25 A
Yes, the six findings were in reference to NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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3 4
5 6
7 8
9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 2537 that evaluation I had with Mr. Steve Smith, when I first came in there, that he held me accountable for, even though the data had already been collated and sent to INPO.
No, that is not it.
Let me look back here.
Q Well, didn't you say we fixed it, we haven't had a finding since, isn't that what you are referring to?
A Well, that is part of it, but what Judge Young has asked is, did I point out that I had been out of the program for almost two years.
And I did that, and I've got to find that reference.
(Witness reviews document.)
THE WITNESS: If you will look at page 52, Judge Young, about three-quarters of the way down the page you will see an entry for Mr. Beecken. And that paragraph before that it says:
I say, I make this statement: Now, you've got to also understand that I've been gone for 18 months.
I haven't been in chemistry, my gosh, I'm in trouble for something that happened in the past 18 months, and I haven't even been here.
ADMINISTRATIVE JUDGE YOUNG:
Thanks.
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BY MR. MARQUAND:
2 Q
You don't disagree that Mr. Beecken was 3
telling you that he thought you had been ineffective, 4
is that right?
5 A
Nor do I disagree with the fact that he 6
was second-guessing himself, and going to check with 7
the --
8 Q
He said he was going to be fair to you, 9
and he was going to get some other data?
10 A
That is correct.
11 Q
Some other inputs.
12 A
That is correct.
13 Q
And at any point in time did he ever come 14 back and say, well Gary, my perception was wrong, and 15 I would like to welcome you back, and have you in 16 Sequoyah chemistry?
17 A
I think that is what he was telling 18 Charles.
19 Q
Did he ever come to you and offer you a 20 job in Sequoyah chemistry?
21 A
That I recall he never spoke to me again.
22 Q
Now, he is the plant manager.
You also 23 talked, the plant manager reports to the site vice 24 president, correct?
25 A
That is correct.
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Q The site vice president is the highest 2
ranking manager on-site at Sequoyah Nuclear Plant?
3 A
That is correct.
4 Q
And did the site vice president also not 5
tell you that you weren't effective, because you 6
weren't aggressive enough?
7 A
Well, I think that is only a partial 8
representation of the truth.
9 Q
Did he tell you that, or not?
10 A
At one time, and then he backed off and he 11 said --
well, we can look at his statements, and I 12 think I can --
13 Q
Can you answer the question?
Didn't he 14 tell you that you were not effective, and his 15 assessment was that you were not aggressive enough?
16 A
And at the same time he said, you can't 17 carry that too far, because as I recall, you tick 18 people off, and then you can't get anything done, 19 either.
20 Q
He said you can't be too aggressive, but 21 in your case you were not effective, and he said you 22 were not aggressive enough?
23 A
Yes. Again, you are only telling half the 24 story.
But, yes, I have to agree with that.
25 Q
So when you made this entry into your NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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planner notes, when you made the entry in your planner 2
notes, which is TVA exhibit 123, and you heard Kent 3
tell you that Beecken said you didn't have --
he did 4
not have the opinion that you were not aggressive 5
enough.
6 Did that not come as a surprise to you 7
after --
8 A
No.
9 Q
you had heard this conversation, told 10 to you by your face by both Beecken and the site vice 11 president, that they didn't think you were effective 12 because you weren't aggressive enough?
13 A
Again, you have only told half the truth.
14 But, yes, it was a surprise to me, because I had never 15 heard from him again, in any official capacity after 16 that December the 9th meeting.
17 Q
That was 180 degrees from what they had 18 told you in November and December of 1992.
19 A
Which was 180 degrees from what they had 20 told me at the stairwell.
So, yes, the story kept 21 changing.
22 Q
We know, at least you claim that you tape 23 recorded, and you claim that you transcribed it. And 24 we know, at least based on your transcription, that 25 they both told you that you weren't effective because NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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6 7
8 9
10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 you weren't aggressive enough.
A Partially that is true, yes.
Q And then we have your Franklin planner note where you wrote down, initially you wrote down:
He did not have the opinion that I was aggressive enough. And then you went back and added in the word not?
A That is correct.
Q And changed it, at that point you changed the meaning, so that it was exactly opposite of the tape recordings that you had made of both of those gentlemen?
A The way you have characterized that is incorrect.
I was taking notes as we were talking.
And sometimes when you are trying to take notes, you are trying to talk, and you are trying to listen, I would leave it out.
And rather than just scratch it out, or go find a new day planner and make it look like something it was not, I purposefully put the not in above, so anyone could look at it and say, yes, that was added.
But you are incorrect in saying I went back and changed it so it would be 180 degrees out.
You have mischaracterized that again.
Q I wasn't implying any intent on your part.
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I'm saying the change you made is 180 degrees 2
different from what they told you in November and 3
December.
4 A
That is correct.
5 Q
Now, you claimed later on, you've got this 6
conversation in July 6, 1993, and I believe your 7
testimony yesterday also was that Kent offered you a 8
job as the chemistry manager at Sequoyah on July 6th, 9
1993?
10 A
That is correct.
11 Q
But you didn't tape record that supposed 12 offer he made to you?
13 A
It was not a supposed offer, I did not 14 tape the offer he made me.
15 ADMINISTRATIVE JUDGE YOUNG:
You did not 16 what?
17 THE WITNESS:
I did not tape record the 18 offer.
It was an actual verbal offer.
19 BY MR. MARQUAND:
20 Q
You didn't tape record that conversation?
21 A
No.
22 Q
And that supposedly happened on July 6th, 23 1993?
24 A
That is correct.
25 Q
So you didn't tape record Mr. Kent making NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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3 4
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7 8
9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 2543 that supposed offer to you, and you didn't tape record the conversation where Powers approved him making that offer to you?
A Q
at page A
Q have any well?
A think it and copy Q
afterwarc A
any othe:
June, Jul That is correct.
But you've got an entry in it, beginning 74 of your sequence of events.
Beginning on page 74?
(Witness reviews document.)
THE WITNESS:
That is correct.
BY MR. MARQUAND:
Is there any explanation for why you don't notes of that in your Franklin planner, as I was --
this was an interview.
I don't is proper to sit there, during an interview, down notes in a planner.
No, but you could have made notes Is, and you didn't do that, did you?
Not that I recall.
ADMINISTRATIVE JUDGE YOUNG: Did you make r notes in that general time period, late Ly?
THE WITNESS: Your Honor, I don't recall.
This, obviously, by me being called out there, and being interviewed, being offered a job and the site VP NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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2544 1
confirming it, this was so indelibly etched in my 2
mind, I didn't feel like I had to take a note.
3 Plus I thought I would be at work, I 4
think, a couple of days after this.
5 ADMINISTRATIVE JUDGE YOUNG:
Well, I was 6
just asking if you made notes on other days in July, 7
or in late --
8 THE WITNESS:
I'm certain I did.
9 CHAIRMAN BECHHOEFER:
Do you have any of 10 those?
11 THE WITNESS: Not with me, no, Your Honor.
12 BY MR. MARQUAND:
13 Q
But you produced them at your deposition?
14 A
Yes, I produced everything you asked for.
15 CHAIRMAN BECHHOEFER: Would this be a good 16 time to take a short break?
17 MR. MARQUAND:
That is fine, Your Honor.
18 (Whereupon, the above-entitled matter 19 went off the record at 10:36 a.m.
and 20 went back on the record at 10:52 a.m.)
21 CHAIRMAN BECHHOEFER:
Back on the record.
22 Before Mr. Marquand resumes, Mr. Fiser, I just have a 23 clarifying question.
24 THE WITNESS:
Yes, Your Honor.
25 CHAIRMAN BECHHOEFER: And it is suggested, NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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I believe, on pages 50 and 51, and that is --
does --
2 when you service INPO and come back with one or more, 3
what are
- those, adverse findings?
Maybe I'm 4
mischaracterizing them.
5 Do you, or does the person who prepares 6
the material to go to, to be given to INPO, or shown 7
to INPO, do anything to change the results that come 8
back?
9 I mean, are there efforts to either cover 10 up, or minimize problems that may, in fact, exist?
11 THE WITNESS:
Can we look at --
12 CHAIRMAN BECHHOEFER:
And it comes from 13 pages, I think, 50 and 51, maybe elsewhere.
14 THE WITNESS:
Yes.
15 CHAIRMAN BECHHOEFER:
But there are --
16 (Pause.)
17 THE WITNESS: Your Honor, can you give me 18 a specific paragraph that --
19 CHAIRMAN BECHHOEFER:
- Well, I
was 20 referring to page 50, for instance.
I honestly 21 believe that if I had been here you may have had one 22 finding, not three.
23 THE WITNESS:
That is correct.
24 CHAIRMAN BECHHOEFER: So what do you do to 25 produce that kind of a result; do you massage the NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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data, so to speak, or --
2 THE WITNESS:
What I was referring to 3
here, and I would have to go back and look at the 4
exact --
5 CHAIRMAN BECHHOEFER:
There was another 6
section or two later on that implied that you could 7
have done the INPO work better than your replacement.
8 THE WITNESS:
Had I been there, the year 9
and a half, or however long it had been in between the 10 INPO evaluations, I think I would have had the 11 personnel in better shape to respond to INPO 12 questions.
I had a better presentation of 13 the chemistry program, and how it was functioning. I 14 did a better job reviewing and documenting adverse 15 trends in data.
I did a better job in preparing my 16 personnel for questions that INPO might have.
17 For example, usually in that day INPO 18 would call, take a look at the roster of people that 19 were working in the laboratory, technicians. And they 20 would choose four, five, six, to call aside and to 21 just get in a room,
- alone, and just ask them 22 questions, to check their knowledge level, to see if 23 they knew what they were doing, to see if they 24 understood the test they were performing, why they 25 were performing the various tests.
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And that is a very stressful environment 2
for a technician to be in. And so in preparation for 3
INPO coming in I would have sessions, much as an 4
attorney would do with a client, to prepare them for 5
being questioning on a witness stand.
6 I would prepare the technicians to be 7
interviewed by INPO and just ask them, I mean, we 8
don't know what INPO is going to ask, they might ask 9
define PH, what is the negative log of the hydronium 10 ion concentration.
I don't know if they are going to 11 ask that question.
12 But what I would try to do was get them 13 comfortable being in a setting where somebody is just 14 going to walk in, call them aside, and start asking 15 what tests are you running, what does it mean when you 16 add monitrol to a boran titration, what does that do, 17 how does that help you in performing the analysis?
18 To just get them accustomed to somebody 19 asking questions, when that may not be the normal 20 routine. And so I would have prepared them, I think, 21 better to answer those questions.
22 And you had this training finding in here, 23 where INPO comes in, certainly when I had them, there 24 were no training issues, and then 18 months later, or 25 however long it had been, there is a training issue.
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And Ron Beecken looked at me and he said, 2
my gosh, these people did not even know that boran, in 3
a PWR, decreases across the cycle, to maintain one 4
hundred percent power.
He said, Gary, that is not 5
something you forget.
And he is exactly right.
6 That is like asking a truck driver if you 7
turn the wheel to the right, which way does the truck 8
go?
And he can't answer it, because these people, 9
they are the ones that run the test every day.
10 And so not knowing how the question was 11 asked, not knowing if he was talking to a secondary 12 chemist when he should have been talking to a primary 13 chemist, not knowing any of the information, I could 14 not answer the question.
15 But I know had I been there the people 16 would have been better prepared for the INPO 17 evaluation, because I had done it so many years. And 18 I just wanted to make them comfortable, and to be able 19 to answer the questions in a relaxed environment.
20 Even to the point where if they ask a 21 question you don't know, you look at the INPO 22 evaluator and you say, you know, I don't know the 23 answer to that, I'm going to find it, and get back 24 with you.
I don't know if they did that.
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employee.
So all I'm saying is, I would have been 2
better prepared for the INPO evaluation than these 3
guys were.
And they would have, perhaps, had one 4
finding.
5 Because I don't think they would have had 6
the training finding had I been there.
I may be 7
wrong, I don't know. But I think they would not have.
8 And one of the other findings, I can't remember which 9
one it was, that data review problem, I believe it 10 was.
11 We generated these trends almost every 12 day, as I've already mentioned.
Another thing we 13 would do is, as a staff, that is not the technicians, 14 that is the next level up, we would get together every 15 day, and we would go through the trends.
16 And I would say, why is Iodide 131 17 increasing when Zenon 133 is not? That doesn't make 18 sense to me.
And you go and you find out, and you 19 say, operations isolated the RCS demineralizer.
20 Well then what you do is you make a note 21 on that trend that says, this perturbation in data is 22 due to an operational event for maintenance.
INPO 23 then looks at the data and says, by gosh, these people 24 generate the data, and they look at the data, and they 25 make sense out of the data, they are on top of it.
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See, I don't even know if that was done in 2
my absence.
But all I'm saying is, had I been there, 3
you know, he may have had, may have had another 4
perfect INPO evaluation, although I can't state 5
unequivocally.
6 But I think that that would have been the 7
case.
That is all I'm trying to communicate, is these 8
guys were not properly prepared, by their management, 9
for the evaluation.
Had I been there, they would 10 have.
11 ADMINISTRATIVE JUDGE YOUNG:
There is an 12 entry on page 51 where you are talking, right after 13 the interruption, 41-74 --
14 THE WITNESS:
Yes, Your Honor.
15 ADMINISTRATIVE JUDGE YOUNG:
It says, 16 there is another thing on that training, Rob, that I 17 can't prove, but Bill may have wanted to get training 18 in trouble so he could clean house over there, 19 etcetera, etcetera.
20 THE WITNESS:
Yes, Your Honor.
21 ADMINISTRATIVE JUDGE YOUNG: Bill is Bill?
22 THE WITNESS:
That is Bill Jocher.
23 ADMINISTRATIVE JUDGE YOUNG: Bill Jocher, 24 okay.
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not real clear on, if you could clarify for me.
2 First, to the extent that you know the types of 3
findings that INPO was making, could you tell me 4
those, and give some context in terms of the gamut of 5
issues that they would look at, and whether it was a 6
standardized list of things, or whether it was pretty 7
much what they chose to ask, or look at, at the time 8
they came in?
9 And then,
- secondly, there have been 10 various references to Mr. Jocher, and sometimes you 11 joined with him in writing that letter, and then other 12 times he made that statement that maybe Bill was 13 trying to --
I read it as saying that maybe Bill 14 Jocher was trying to make them get a low rating on 15 training, so that would make you look bad, which 16 indicates that there was some hostility between you, 17 or might indicate that.
18 THE WITNESS:
There was, in this specific 19 example you have just mentioned, there was a 20 tremendous animosity between Bill Jocher and the 21 training group.
22 ADMINISTRATIVE JUDGE YOUNG: The training 23 group being whom?
24 THE WITNESS:
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group.
He did not feel like this person or persons, 2
at that time, was qualified.
3 ADMINISTRATIVE JUDGE YOUNG:
What I was 4
really getting at was some problem between you and 5
Bill Jocher.
6 THE WITNESS:
Oh, there had been --
7 ADMINISTRATIVE JUDGE YOUNG:
That is one 8
area. And then the other is just what INPO looks at, 9
and what a general INPO visit consists of.
10 THE WITNESS: INPO has documents that they 11 use to develop their, essentially their audit plan for 12 the site.
13 ADMINISTRATIVE JUDGE YOUNG:
Is it a 14 standardized list of things that they look at?
15 THE WITNESS:
Yes, it is.
That does not 16 mean everything they look at is included in that list.
17 For example, if they get feedback from the industry 18 that they are having problems with a diesel jacket 19 cooling water being out of spec, even though that 20 might not be called out, they would definitely go look 21 at that, or something of that matter.
22 So it is not an exclusive list, but they 23 definitely have their guidelines, they are well 24 published, and every plant has a copy of the INPO 25 documents, and what they look at.
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ADMINISTRATIVE JUDGE YOUNG: And then with 2
regard to Bill
- Jocher, there have been vague 3
references to him not wanting you to go to corporate, 4
and here on page 51 I see this reference, you are 5
suggesting that he may have --
6 THE WITNESS:
That is correct.
7 ADMINISTRATIVE JUDGE YOUNG:
tried to 8
make things so that he could get people out?
9 THE WITNESS:
That is correct.
At that 10 time, of course, I did not have all the information.
11 I did not, as I recall, I don't even remember who the 12 INPO evaluator was.
I don't know what questions were 13 asked, I don't know of whom.
14 So I could only speculate.
But I do know 15 that at one time I had suggested that he spend a 16 little time to prepare his RLAs, as I had done in the 17 past --
18 ADMINISTRATIVE JUDGE YOUNG:
His?
19 THE WITNESS:
Radio technicians.
20 ADMINISTRATIVE JUDGE YOUNG: That you had 21 suggested that to Bill Jocher?
22 THE WITNESS: Yes, I had suggested that.
23 ADMINISTRATIVE JUDGE YOUNG:
In what 24 context?
25 THE WITNESS:
To Bill Jocher through Sam NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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Harvey. In my context as corporate chemistry manager.
2 ADMINISTRATIVE JUDGE YOUNG:
Okay.
3 THE WITNESS:
Just to say, hey, don't 4
forget, we need to make sure the guys are accustomed 5
to being pulled aside and asked questions similar to 6
what INPO would ask.
7 We, again, don't know what they are going 8
to ask, but we know how they conduct the interviews.
9 And he refused to do that, stating, it is fine, they 10 will do fine, I'm not worried about it.
11 And I thought that was a little strange.
12 Well, they did not do well. And I had to sit back and 13
- say, why did he not do that?
And I was just 14 speculating, because I knew of the problems he had 15 with people who were inside the training organization.
16 And I wondered if he may have been 17 purposefully not preparing them, so that they might 18 not do well, so that he could then clean house and get 19 some people in over there that he wanted.
20 I didn't know, I was just speculating with 21 Rob.
But when Rob Beecken told me that an RLA, radio 22 chemistry laboratory analyst, a technician, who runs 23 a boron test at a nuclear power plant, PWR, several 24 times a day, year after year, after year, does not 25 know that across a cycle boron has to go down to keep NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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the reactor at one hundred percent power, I know 2
something is not right.
3 And I even suggested to Rob, maybe the 4
RLAs were upset, and wanting to make Bill Jocher look 5
bad.
I mean, I did not have the information.
I just 6
was wondering, I know that if I could go in and get 7
the INPO notes, if I could go in and talk to the 8
person asking the questions, if I could go in and talk 9
to the radio chemistry laboratory analyst, that they 10 questioned, I know I could find the answer to that, 11 and come back and tell him, this is what happened, and 12 this is why you had the training factor.
13 But there is a heck of a lot more going on 14 than meets the surface here, because you don't have to 15 tell a truck driver which way to turn the wheel to get 16 off the road.
17 ADMINISTRATIVE JUDGE YOUNG:
Thank you.
18 BY MR. MARQUAND:
19 Q
Mr. Fiser, I'm not sure I heard an answer 20 to Judge Young's question.
There was some 21 considerable tension at this point in time between you 22 and Bill Jocher, wasn't there?
23 A
At this point in time that is incorrect.
24 It had been pretty well resolved.
25 Q
In early 1992, when he was your vocal NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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critic, and you were downtown, and he was going to Dan 2
Keuter, and he was --
3 A
I'm sorry, this is in December, after we 4
had made the swap, and the transition, and we had 5
worked a lot of these problems out.
6 Q
Did you never hear that Bill Jocher was 7
responsible for going to Dan Keuter and complaining 8
about you being the corporate chemistry manager?
9 A
Oh, that was months before.
10 Q
So you had that all ironed out too?
11 A
Yes, we did.
12 Q
Okay.
So first he is throwing rocks at 13 you while you are Sequoyah chemistry manager, and he 14 is your critic, and he causes you to be removed from 15 that position.
16 Then he goes to Dan Keuter and he is your 17 critic once again, and he causes you to be removed as 18 corporate chemistry manager, and you later ironed out 19 all your differences, and you guys proceeded to be 20 friends?
21 A
That is basically true.
22 Q
Okay.
23 A
And I have examples, if you would like to 24 go into them.
25 Q
Now, earlier, before we took a break, you NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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had referred to --
once again you referred to this 2
conversation, allegedly on the stairwell, with Rob 3
Beecken and Jack Wilson, in which they told you what 4
a great job you had been doing as the chemistry 5
manager of Sequoyah.
6 Did you make any notes of that 7
conversation?
8 A
I don't recall.
9 Q
It doesn't appear that you did.
I don't 10 see it anywhere.
11 A
I really, honestly, I don't think I did.
12 And --
13 Q
Did you tape record it?
14 A
I did not tape record that.
That is why 15 I did go back later and I had tape recorded the 16 conversation where I made mention of it to both these 17
- guys, and they acknowledged the gist of that 18 conversation in the stairwell.
19 Q
The jest or the gist?
20 A
The gist.
21 Q
You told us, yesterday, it was a very 22 jocular conversation, they were kidding you about 23 taking an easy job going downtown?
24 A
- Well, that was part of it, that is 25 correct.
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Q Now, with respect to Judge Bechhoefer's 2
question about trying to avoid INPO findings, first of 3
all, INPO comes in what, every 18 months?
4 A
Approximately.
5 Q
And that is not the only measure of 6
performance of a nuclear plant, is that correct?
7 A
That is correct.
8 Q
They are only there for a short period of 9
time, and as Judge Young asked you, they only look at 10 a certain list of things, and interview only a few 11 people, they just do a quick and dirty broad overview 12 of the plant?
13 A
That is incorrect.
14 Q
It is not a quick overview?
15 A
That is correct, it is not a quick 16 overview.
17 Q
How long are they there?
18 A
They are on-site for two weeks, but they 19 are sequestered and reviewing your data and trends for 20 weeks leading up to the INPO evaluation.
21 Q
But you agree that there are a lot of 22 other measures of performance of the plant?
23 A
That is correct.
24 Q
And the management of the plant is there 25 every day?
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A That is correct.
2 Q
Now, with respect to Judge Bechhoefer's 3
question about attempting to avoid findings by INPO, 4
you said that what you did was you took your 5
technicians aside and gave them mock interviews, that 6
you would come up with a set of questions, and give 7
them the answers, and have them practice those 8
answers, isn't that right?
9 A
Well, that is incorrect. Certainly if you 10 ask them a question and they don't have the answer you 11 want to provide that answer, or have training provide 12 the documentation for the answer, so that they can 13 refresh their memory.
14 Q
What you said you would do is you would go 15 to the various utilities and find out the questions 16 that INPO was asking?
17 A
No, I would not go to the various 18 utilities, but I would get feedback, you know, if 19 there were any particular hot topics.
20 Q
You would get feedback from the other 21 utilities about hot topics, then?
22 A
From time to time if you could.
23 Q
In other words, you would find out the 24 areas that INPO was asking about?
25 A
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because you don't know what they are going to ask.
2 Q
But you find out what has been asked of 3
other utilities?
4 A
Yes, I would find out, some times, some of 5
the questions, some of the areas that were being asked 6
at other utilities.
7 Q
So then you came up with a set of 8
questions that you would have the technicians practice 9
answering?
10 A
Well, not necessarily, no.
What I would 11 want to get them used to was my first line 12 supervisors, or myself, or even the staff, just 13 finding somebody doing work, and then asking questions 14
- like, do you understand the importance of this 15
- monitor, do you understand why you are on this 16 particular test? Do you understand why you add this 17 particular reagent --
18 Q
You answered more than I asked. Would you 19 come up with a set of questions?
20 A
No, it was more impromptu than that.
21 Q
Well, let me refer you to page 50 of Joint 22 Exhibit 27.
Look at the bottom paragraph, the lone 23 bottom paragraph.
The fourth line down, do you see 24 where it
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a set of questions, just like they do.
2 Do you see that?
3 A
I did that at one time.
4 Q
And further down, two more lines, it says:
5 We got some sample questions that INPO was asking. Do 6
you see that?
7 A
Yes, I do.
8 Q
And then you would --
do you see where it 9
says, we got them used to providing answers and 10 presenting themselves.
Well, I did that every time.
11 A
- Yes, I would get them accustomed to 12 answering questions.
13 Q
Now, have you referred to that as pumping 14 up your technicians?
15 A
No, Mr.
Beecken referred to that as 16 pumping up technicians.
17 Q
All right. Now, wasn't he critical of you 18 for doing that, instead of providing them general 19 broad training with a broad foundation?
20 A
He was, but he was incorrect in doing so.
21 Q
So he criticized you for pumping them up 22 instead of providing training, but he was wrong?
23 A
That is right, because we did provide the 24 training.
25 ADMINISTRATIVE JUDGE COLE: In addition to NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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this --
2 THE WITNESS: Yes, sir, that is correct.
3 ADMINISTRATIVE JUDGE COLE:
other 4
training?
5 THE WITNESS:
That is correct.
As a 6
matter of fact there was --
there were very few 7
technicians that had degrees, and I was sending them 8
to get their degrees.
I was sending Debbie Bodine to 9
get her degree, I sent Deidra Nida to get her degree.
10 I had sent Wayne, I can't remember his last name, to 11 get his degree, I had sent Johnny Barker, who was in 12 a staff position, to get his chemistry degree.
13 ADMINISTRATIVE JUDGE YOUNG:
What 14 chemistry degree, a bachelor's degree?
15 THE WITNESS: That is correct, Your Honor.
16 And so there was a huge deficit, as far as the 17 knowledge level of these technicians, compared to what 18 I was accustomed to at Arkansas Nuclear, where I hired 19 only degreed personnel that had a science related 20 degree, or out of the nuclear Navy program.
21 Here that was not the case, so we started 22 at a tremendous deficit, and I was --
23 BY MR. MARQUAND:
24 Q
Now, TVA has a program --
25 A
to take care of.
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Q that any individual can go to school, 2
and TVA reimburses them for job related courses?
3 A
That is correct, and I was doing that.
4 Q
That is what you were sending people to 5
do.
Now, at Sequoyah Nuclear Plant, the plant has a 6
training center, doesn't it?
7 A
That is correct.
8 Q
And there is on-site training specific to 9
the job tasks that the individuals have to do, not 10 just general BS degrees in chemistry, but specific 11 training with respect to the job tasks the employees 12 have to do, correct?
13 A
That is basically correct.
14 Q
And did anything happen to the training 15 program for chemistry while you were the manager?
16 A
While I was the manager I think it is 17 while I was the manager, that it was basically, 18 several of the instructors were RIFd, or they did away 19 with it.
We ended up with one instructor who did not 20 have a degree.
21 ADMINISTRATIVE JUDGE YOUNG: You ended up 22 with one instructor who did not have a degree?
23 THE WITNESS:
As I recall, Your Honor, 24 that is correct.
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they were RIFd?
2 THE WITNESS: That is correct. The budget 3
for the training center was cut by Mr. Kingsley and 4
Mr. Bynum, as I understood.
And these people had to 5
find other jobs.
So whereas we had --
6 ADMINISTRATIVE JUDGE YOUNG:
Were you in 7
charge, did you make those decisions?
8 THE WITNESS:
No, Your Honor, I did not.
9 I was very much opposed to it.
10 ADMINISTRATIVE JUDGE YOUNG:
No, I mean, 11 who got RIFd.
12 THE WITNESS: No, that was based on --
I'm 13 not sure if that was based on seniority, or what.
I 14 don't recall.
15 ADMINISTRATIVE JUDGE YOUNG:
But you are 16 not, you are saying that you were not the person who 17 was in charge of making decisions about the RIF?
18 THE WITNESS:
No, Your Honor, I was very 19 much against it.
20 ADMINISTRATIVE JUDGE YOUNG: The question 21 I'm trying to get answered is, when a RIF is done, 22 someone makes a decision about how it is to be done.
23 I know you were against it.
Were you the person who 24 made the decisions about how it was to be done, or was 25 that someone else?
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THE WITNESS:
That would be someone else.
2 ADMINISTRATIVE JUDGE YOUNG:
Okay, thank 3
you.
4 BY MR. MARQUAND:
5 Q
And while you were the chemistry manager, 6
you discontinued using the laboratory in the training 7
center?
8 A
Well, that is basically incorrect. It was 9
turned into a storage room, that is correct.
10 Q
While you were the chemistry manager?
11 A
I don't know if that was while I was the 12 chemistry manager or not, because if you would recall, 13 Mr. Kingsley put a letter out, that would be in 14 January of 1991, wherein he delineated that the 15 training department at Sequoyah, in chemistry, was 16 going from an instructor based, as I recall, to an in-17 plant --
I can't remember the exact terminology, we 18 can look at the letter, self-study type program.
19 That letter came out in January, basically 20 120 days later I was gone, I was in outage management, 21 and then I was downtown corporate chemistry.
So I 22 don't think that is an accurate representation.
23 Q
See, 120 days is four months, right?
24 A
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of there.
So they were in the process of converting 2
over to this self-study type program, which I think 3
obviously was problematic.
4 Q
Before we broke, I just want to finish 5
this one topic, we will be ready to go.
6 Before we broke we were talking about the 7
conversations you had with Charles Kent about an 8
attempt to find a job out at the plant, and the fact 9
that you had not made any notes, or tape recorded this 10 supposed offer he made to you.
11 If you would turn to page 75, 76, that is 12 the conversation which Charles Kent tells you that, 13 and you referred to this yesterday, that he had 14 attempted to get some feedback from Wilson McArthur 15 about talking to the right people, about whether or 16 not he could further consider you for the chemistry 17 manager position at Sequoyah, correct?
18 A
I think that is correct, yes.
19 Q
Now, Mr. Kent worked for the plant manager 20 and the site vice president at Sequoyah, right?
21 A
That is correct.
22 Q
And the site vice president in return 23 reported to Joe Bynum, who was the vice president of 24 nuclear operations?
25 A
I don't know. I know at that time that he NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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was taking another job, I don't know when he took 2
another job.
I don't know if he was even in that --
3 Q
When you had been the Sequoyah chemistry 4
manager, Joe Bynum was the vice president over nuclear 5
operations?
6 A
That is correct. But at this time I don't 7
think he was.
Wasn't there a Mr. Eytchison that was 8
in charge?
9 Q
I'm not sure when he came in.
But let's 10 refer back to somebody who had knowledge of your 11 experience as a Sequoyah chemistry manager, and that 12 was Joe
- Bynum, the vice president of nuclear 13 operations, right?
14 A
That had knowledge of mine --
15 Q
He was in your management chain when you 16 were the Sequoyah chemistry manager?
17 A
That is correct.
18 Q
And then you went, the corporate chemistry 19 function was managed, was under the management of 20 Wilson McArthur?
21 A
That is correct.
22 Q
In that capacity he would interface with 23 the plant, and also Sequoyah chemistry, and had a 24 chance to observe your performance, as well as 25 management's perception of your performance?
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A He who?
2 Q
Wilson McArthur.
3 A
Yes.
4 Q
And Wilson McArthur in turn reported to 5
Dan Keuter, who was operations support?
6 A
Yes.
7 Q
And Mr. Keuter also reported to Joe Bynum?
8 A
I don't know if that is correct at that 9
time, because as you recall, at some point Mr. Bynum 10 took another job, and I don't remember --
11 Q
I'm talking about when you were Sequoyah 12 chemistry manager.
13 A
We are talking about when this 14 conversation took place on July --
15 Q
I'm talking right now, when the Sequoyah 16 chemistry manager, Wilson McArthur had an opportunity 17 to observe your performance, and also to observe 18 management's perception of your performance?
19 A
I would say that is correct.
20 Q
And when you were Sequoyah chemistry 21 manager, Wilson McArthur reported to Dan Keuter?
22 A
That is correct.
23 Q
And at the same time Dan Keuter reported 24 to Joe Bynum?
25 A
You know, at some point in time, in the NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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time I was at Sequoyah, Wilson McArthur reported to a 2
Mr. Barker.
So I don't know --
3 Q
And his management chain ended up 4
reporting to Joe Bynum, correct?
5 A
That is correct, at the time I was the 6
Sequoyah chemistry manager.
7 Q
So you were having discussions with Mr.
8 Kent about installing you at Sequoyah as the chemistry 9
manager?
10 A
That is correct.
11 Q
And that would have been a position that 12 reported ultimately to Joe Bynum?
13 A
That is incorrect.
I think at that time, 14 I don't think he was any longer in that position. And 15 you can check the record for July the 6th, and find 16 out.
I'm not absolutely sure of that.
17 But I think at that time Mr. Bynum was no 18 longer in that position.
19 Q
In this earlier conversation, prior to the 20 one referenced on page 76, when you were having a 21 discussion with Charles Kent, and he said he needed to 22 talk to Wilson to approach the right people, the 23 conversation referenced on page 75, on July 6th.
Do 24 you see that?
25 A
I see that.
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Q He determined he needed to talk to Wilson 2
McArthur because you brought up the subject that some 3
people in management might have the perception that 4
your performance at Sequoyah might not make you 5
welcome back there?
6 A
No.
No, I think either I or Charles, I 7
can't remember which one of us, made the comment that, 8
you know, we need to take a look and make sure you 9
don't have a target on your back, or something, for 10 some reason.
11 And, honestly, I can't remember which one 12 of us made that statement, either Charles or --
this 13 statement that, you know, we need to look and make 14 sure you don't have a target on your back.
15 ADMINISTRATIVE JUDGE YOUNG:
You are not 16 sure whether he said that, or you said that?
17 THE WITNESS: That is correct, Your Honor, 18 I can't remember who said it first.
19 ADMINISTRATIVE JUDGE YOUNG: What did you 20 mean by target?
21 THE WITNESS: The only reason that I would 22 have said that would have been to say Charles, I don't 23 want you to do something if it is going to cost you 24 your career.
That would be, basically, the only 25 reason I would say that.
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It is because he could take these --
he 2
could --
3 ADMINISTRATIVE JUDGE YOUNG:
I didn't ask 4
why you said it, I said what did you mean by having a 5
target on your back?
6 THE WITNESS:
That he --
7 MR. MARQUAND:
I think he is explaining 8
that, Your Honor.
9 THE WITNESS:
Obviously somebody, from a 10 very high up level, was directing these people below 11 them to do things they were not in agreement with.
12 Dr. McArthur not giving me an increase, Rob Beecken 13 going from you've done a wonderful job, we love you, 14 go downtown, to I don't want you back.
15 So I felt like, you know, from some place, 16 somebody at a very high level, was calling the shots 17 that people below them were not necessarily in 18 agreement with.
And I was concerned, I would have 19 been concerned that if Charles just moved me out 20 there, as he was intending to do, that he might, 21 indeed, put his own career in jeopardy.
That is why 22 I would have said it.
23 ADMINISTRATIVE JUDGE YOUNG: Did you have 24 any idea why you would have been a target if you were 25 a target?
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THE WITNESS:
I was trying to figure it 2
out, I did not know.
I assumed it was because I had 3
found problems, documented them, used the corrective 4
action process, and these people, some people do not 5
like to see their problems in writing.
That is the 6
only thing I could come up with.
7 But I was trying very desperately to 8
figure out what was going on.
9 BY MR. MARQUAND:
10 Q
You assumed that somebody was torpedoing 11 you, as you said, that you had a target on your back 12 because you documented safety concerns, right?
13 A
Yes.
Or used the corrective action 14 process.
15 Q
And you made that assumption despite 16 having been told by the site vice president, and the 17 plant manager, that you were not effective because you 18 were not aggressive enough?
19 A
Yes, when those same two people had, just 20 a few months ago --
21 Q
It doesn't require an explanation, just 22 yes or no.
You made that assumption in the face of 23 being told that by both of those gentlemen?
24 A
Yes.
25 Q
And then you have seen Mr.
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statement where he says the chemistry program was 2
terrible, and he didn't think you were competent, and 3
that Beecken and Bynum wanted you fired because you 4
were not competent.
5 And you still made the assumption that it 6
was because you raised and documented safety concerns?
7 A
Yes.
8 Q
Now, my question to you was, who, was it 9
you, or was it Kent who raised the issue about whether 10 upper management might have a problem with placing you 11 in that job?
12 A
As I said, I can't completely recall.
It 13 seems to me like it was Charles, but I'm not sure.
14 One of the two of us.
15 Q
Do you remember when I
took your 16 deposition on December 11th?
17 A
Yes.
18 Q
Referring to page 117.
You don't have it 19 there, I'm just going to read these questions and 20 answers to you, and ask if it refreshes your 21 recollection.
22 You were telling me that Kent told you to 23 be out at the plant.
And I said, did you?
And you 24 said, no.
Question:
Why not?
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stated would be the right people to make sure the 2
transition was going to go well, or smoothly.
One of 3
those right people was Wilson McArthur.
4 Question:
Do you know why he talked to 5
Wilson? Answer:
He did not tell me.
Question: Did 6
you ever suggest to him that he should do so? Answer:
7 I expressed to him that I had some concerns about the 8
fact that it appeared that I had a target on my back, 9
that I did not understand, and that I did not want him 10 to do something that would get him into trouble, so I 11 wouldn't deny that I did that.
12 I don't specifically explicitly recall it, 13 but that would, if I did, it should be a part of the 14 record.
15 A
Again, that does not answer --
16 Q
Does that refresh your recollection that 17 you told him you had concerns about having a target on 18 your back, not understanding it, not wanting to get 19 him in trouble, and suggesting that maybe he should 20 talk to some people to make sure that it was all right 21 to put you in that job?
22 A
Yes.
23 Q
All right.
And wouldn't it make sense 24 that he talked to the people in his upper management 25 chain, including people who had been in his upper NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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3 4
5 6
7 8
9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 2575 management chain, and had observed their performance previously?
A Q
I don't know who he was going to talk to.
Doesn't it make sense that he would do that?
A Not if he was trying to get me out there and get me in the chair before anybody, quote, found out and had a chance to raise opposition.
No, that does not make sense to me.
Q So you would expect him to install you in that job before his management --
A His management already knew about it and approved it.
Q Okay.
Rob Beecken still worked for TVA?
A No, Rob Beecken was --
yes, he was in TVA.
Q He still worked for TVA?
A He had been removed as a Sequoyah --
Q He still worked in nuclear power?
A At Watts Bar.
Q And Joe Bynum still worked for TVA?
A Somewhere.
Q Wilson McArthur still worked for TVA?
A Yes.
Q Dan Keuter still worked for TVA?
A Don't know.
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3 4
5 6
7 8
9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 2576 Q
And what would happen to Charles Kent if he installed you in such a position, and his management later found out that all the people in his management chain, or your management chain, who had previously observed your performance, and found it to be lacking, that he had gone around his management's back and installed you in that position?
A His management --
Q What would happen to Kent?
A His management already knew it.
Q What would happen to Kent if his management --
A His management already knew it.
Q found out that you had been removed from that job for not being effective?
A His management already knew it.
CHAIRMAN BECHHOEFER:
Mr. Marquand, we should be looking to a break.
MR. MARQUAND:
We can break now, if you would like, Your Honor.
CHAIRMAN BECHHOEFER: Okay. We will break now, we will return, and I guess it will be in the same room, on June 11th, 9 a.m.
(Whereupon, at 11:3 5 a.m. the above-entitled matter was adjourned.)
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CERTIFICATE This is to certify that the attached proceedings before the United States Nuclear Regulatory Commission in the matter of:
Name of Proceeding: Tennessee Valley Authority Watts Bar Nuclear Plant, Unit 1, Sequoyah Nuclear Plant, Units 1 and 2, Brown ferry Nuclear Plat, Units 1,2,3 Docket Number:
50-390-CivP; ASLBP No. 01-791-01-CivP Location:
Chattanooga, Tennessee were held as herein appears, and that this is the original transcript thereof for the file of the United States Nuclear Regulatory Commission taken by me and, thereafter reduced to typewriting by me or under the direction of the court reporting company, and that the transcript is a true and accurate record of the foregoing proceedings.
Ed Johns Official Reporter Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.
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