ML20199K039
| ML20199K039 | |
| Person / Time | |
|---|---|
| Site: | Braidwood  |
| Issue date: | 06/26/1986 |
| From: | Atomic Safety and Licensing Board Panel |
| To: | |
| References | |
| CON-#386-971 OL, NUDOCS 8607090020 | |
| Download: ML20199K039 (210) | |
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hR G MA1.
,O UN11EU STATES NUCLEAR REGULATORY COMMISSION IN THE MATTER OF: DOCKET NO: 50-456 OL 50-457 OL COMMONWEALTH EDISON COMPANY (Braidwood Station, Units 1 & 2)
'O LOCATION: JOLIET, ILLINOIS PAGES: 5702 - 5973 DATE: THURSDAY, JUNE 26, 1986
\
N N ACE-FEDERAL REPORTERS, INC.
O Official Reporters 444 North CapitolStreet Washington, D.C. 20001 (202)347-3700 8607090020 860626 6 PDR ADOCK 0500 NATIONWIDE COVERACE
5702 1 UNITED STATES OF AMERICA 2 NUCLEAR REGULATORY COMMISSION
, 3 BEFORE THE ATOMIC SAFETY AND LICENSING BOARD 4
__________________x 5 :
In the Matter of: :
6 : Docket No. 50-456 OL COMMONWEALTH EDISON COMPANY : 50-457 OL 7 :
, (Braidwood Station, Units 1 :
8 and 2) :
__________________x 9
10 College of St. Francis 500 North Wilcox Street 11 Joliet, Illinois 60435
, 12 Thursday, June 26, 1986.
13 The hearing in the above-entitled matter reconvened 14 at 9:00 A. M.
1 15 i 16 BEFORE:
- 17 JUDGE HERBERT GROSSMAN, Chai rman Atomic Safety and Licensing Board 18 U. S. Nuclear Regulatory Commission Washington, D. C.
19 JUDGE RICH ARD F. COLE, Member, 20 Atomic Safety and Licensing Board U. S. Nuclear Regulatory Commission j 21 Washington, D. C.
22 JUDGE A. DIXON CALLIH AN, Member, Atomic Safety and Licensing Board 23 U. S. Nuclear Regulatory Commission Washington, D. C.
24 APPEARANCES:
25
- CE) On behalf of the Applicant:
Sonntag Reporting Service, Ltd.
Geneva, IlliTwir--6013 4 (312) 232-0262
5703 1
MICHAEL I. MILL ER , ESQ.
2 JOSEPH GALLO, ESQ.
EL EN A Z . KEZELIS, ESQ.
3 Isham, Lincoln & Beale Three First National Plaza 4 Chicago, Illinois 60602 i 5 On behalf of the Nuclear Regulatory Commission Staff:
6 4
ELAINE I. CHAN, ESQ.
7 GREGORY ALAN BERRY, ESQ.
U. S. Nuclear Regulatory Commission 8 7335 Old Georgetown Road Bethesda, Maryland 20014 9
On behalf of the Intervenors:
10 ROBERT GUILD, ESQ.
11 DOUGLASS CASSEL, ESQ.
12
()
13 14 15 16 17 18 19 j 20
. 21
< 22 23 4
24 25 CE)
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5704 1 EXHIBIT INDEX Marked Received Staff Exhibit No. 4 5851 5889 2 Staff Exhibit No. 5 5970 5972 3 TESTIMONY OF TERRY LEE GORMAN 4 DIRECT EXAMINATION BY MR. GALLO: 5706
. 5 BOARD EXAMINATION 6 BY JUDGE GROSSMAN 5806 7 CROSS EXAMINATION BY MR. CASSEL: 5808 8
BOARD EXAMINATION 9 BY JUDGE GROSSMAN : 5841 -
10 BOARD EXAMINATION BY JUDGE COLE: 5842 11 CROSS EXAMINATION 12 BY MS. CH AN : 5846 13 REDIRECT EXAMINATION BY MR. GALLO: 5855 14 BOARD EXAMINATION 15 BY JUDGE GROSSMAN: 5867 16 BOARD EXAMINATION BY JUDGE CALLIHAN: 5868 17 RECROSS EXAMINATION 18 BY MR. CASSEL: 5883 19 RECROSS EXAMINATION BY MS. CH AN : 5889 20 REDIRECT EXAMINATION 21 (Continued)
BY MR. GALLO: 5890 22 TESTIMONY OF DEAN LE VERNE PETERSON 23 DIRECT EXAMINATION 24 BY MS. KEZELIS: 5892 0' 25 CROSS EXAMINATION BY MS. CHAN 5968 Sonntag Reporting Service, Ltd.
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i 1 JUDGE GROSSMAN: The hearing is reconvened.
2 This is the 29th day of hearing.
3 Do we have any preliminary matters before we get to 4 the next witness?
1 5 MR. CASS EL : I would only note, Judge, that 6 we have just served on the Board and on the parties --
7 and it's on Miss Chan's table there, although I don't 8 know that she's seen it -- a motion asking that the 9 Board, following its session in camera in connection J
10 with the OI documents, grant full disclosure of the 4
11 documents in accordance with the Commission's policy 12 statement.
O 13 JUDGE GROSSMAN: Fine. We've received that.
l 14 Mr. Gallo, would you call your next witness?
15 MR. GALLO: Your Honor, I'd like to call Mr.
16 Terry Gorman at this time. He's at the witness table.
17 JUDGE GROSSMAN: Mr. Gorman, would you stand, 18 please, and raise your right hand?
l 19 (The witness was thereupon duly sworn.)
f 20 JUDGE GROSSMAN: Please be seated.
l 21 MR. GALLO: Mr. Gorman, my name is Joe Gallo, 22 and I'm one of the lawyers for commonwealth Edison.
23 To my lef t is Mr. Guild, who represents the 24 Intervenors. To my right is Miss Chan and Mr. Berry,
() 25 who represent the NRC Staff, and the three members of --
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1 the three individuals in front of me are members of the 2 Board.
3 We all will be asking you questions during the 4 course of this morning. I will start first, Mr. Guild 5 will go second, then the NRC Staff, and then the Board 6 will likely have questions.
7 MR. GUILD: Mr. Gallo, I might just say that 8 Mr. Cassel is here at table, and he's going to conduct 9 the examination of Mr. Gorman.
10 This is Mr. Cassel.
11 (Indicating.)
12 MR. GALLO: I stand corrected.
13 TERRY LEE GORMAN 14 called as a witness by the Applicant herein, having been 15 first duly sworn, was examined and testified as follows:
16 DIRECT EXAMINATION 17 BY MR. GALLO:
18 0 Would you state your full name for the reporter, please, 19 and business address?
20 A My name is Terry Lee Gorman, and I work at the 21 Commonwealth Edison Nuclear Plant in Draidwood, 22 Illinois.
23 0 Are you currently employed by BESTCO?
24 A Yes, sir.
() 25 0 Were you employed by BESTCO on about July, 1985?
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! 1 A Yes, sir.
2 Q Do you work at Braidwood as a QC Inspector?
3 A Yes, sir.
4 0 Are your inspection duties involved with the electrical 5 work performed by Comstock?
6 A Yes, sir.
7 Q Did you work for Comstock prior to the time that you 8 were employed by BESTCO?
9 A Yes, sir.
l 10 0 When did you join Comstock, to the best of your 11 recollection?
12 A October of 1983.
O 13 Q And who was your employer prior to joining Comstock?
14 A I worked for General Foods Corporation.
i i 15 0 And how long did you work for them?
16 A 14 years.
17 0 While you were working at General Foods, did any of your 18 duties involve quality assurance or quality control 19 activities?
l 20 A Yes, sir. -
21 0 Which one or both or -- was it both?
22 A Quality control, mostly.
l 23 Q Can you describe what your quality control duties were?
24 A For General Foods I was a Quality Control Supervisor for
() 25 quite a period of time.
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1 Previous to that, I was a laboratory technician, 2 analyzing -- we did some maintenance work on specific 3 equipment that was installed in the plant.
4 0 When you were Quality control Supervisor, did you 5 supervise inspectors?
6 A Yes, sir.
7 0 Did they have -- did they designate their inspectors as 8 Level I, Level II or Level III?
9 A No, sir.
10 0 Was there a standard or -- an industry standard that 11 controlled the discharge of their duties?
12 A I don't understand your question.
13 0 Okay.
14 Are you f amiliar with the ANSI standard that 15 governs inspection activities for the nuclear industry?
16 A Yes, sir.
17 0 Is there a similar standard that exists with respect to 18 the General Foods activities that you were involved in?
19 A There were some government standards we had to adhere to 20 at one time because we made products for the government.
21 Q What did you and your inspectors inspect?
22 A Pet foods.
23 0 I'm sorry?
24 A Pet foods.
() 25 0 And what was the purpose of the inspection?
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1 A To make sure the quality of the product was acceptable 2 for the consumers who purchased them.
3 0 And prior to the time that you worked for General Foods, 4 were you employed in another capacity or have I backed 5 you up to school?
6 A That's quite a while ago.
7 I worked at several different jobs prior to that.
8 0 Did you have any QC, quality control, experience prior 9 to your employment with General Foods?
10 A No.
11 Q All right.
12 Now, what were your duties at the time of joining O 13 Comstock?
14 A When I first joined Comstock, I was assigned to document 15 review.
16 Q And was this in October of 1983?
17 A Yes, sir.
18 Q And where did you conduct this document review work?
19 A We were basically assigned in the vault area.
20 0 What was your position?
21 A Level II -- well, not at that time. I was just hired in 22 as a doc reviewer, and then later I became a Level II 23 Inspector.
24 Q So you were hired in initiclly as a document reviewer?
()
25 A Nore or less, yes.
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1 0 And is it f air to say that as a document reviewer, you 2 worked in the Comstock vault?
3 A Yes, sir.
4 0 Who was your supervisor at that time?
5 A I think we reported directly to Mr. Seese at that time.
6 0 This would be in October of 1983?
7 A Yes, sir.
8 0 Now, how long did you work in the vault with respect to 9 document review activities?
10 A Approximately six to eight months, I believe it was.
11 0 Was Mr. Seese your supervisor during all that time?
12 A I believe so, most of the time; and then -- it was O 13 either he or Mr. DeWald.
14 There were some organizational changes to where we 15 reported our -- we were directly reporting to Mr. Seese 16 and then Mr. DeWald.
17 0 Do you recall whether you ever reported directly to Mr.
18 DeWald or was it always through Mr. Seese?
19 A I think it was through Mr. Seese at that time.
20 0 Well, I'm talking about the six to eight months' time 21 that you were in the vault.
22 A I'm not really sure. I can't remember that far back.
23 0 Now, what certifications did you qualify for af ter you 24 joined Comstock? -
() 25 A The first certification I believe was in conduit Sonntag Reporting Service, Ltd.
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3 inspection.
2 0 Can you remember when that was?
3 A No, sir.
4 0 Was it -- do you remember perhaps the year?
5 Was it 1984 or 1985?
, 6 A I believe it was '84, sir.
l 7 Q Do you remember whether it was the early part of the
. 8 year or the later part of the year?
9 A I believe it was somewhere in the early part; January or i
10 February, somewhere in that area.
11 Q January or February of 1984?
12 A Yes, sir.
O 13 Q Did you qualify for any other -- strike that.
14 What is a conduit -- what are the duties of an 15 inspector when he inspects conduit?
16 A To make sure that the conduit installation is installed 17 properly; that it is installed where there should be 18 hangers; make sure there's no damage to it.
19 There's certain criteria that we have to 20 specifically look for: make sure that the attachments 21 that it goes to are properly installed, all connections 22 are tight.
23 Q Do you inspect against an installation drawing?
24 A An installation drawing?
() 25 0 Yes.
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1 A We utilize installation drawings to show us where the 2 conduit is, but we have a procedure that we go by for 3 inspection purposes.
4 D Did you qualify for any other certifications?
5 A I qualified in configurations.
l l 6 0 Do you remember approximately when that was?
l l 7 A No, sir.
8 0 Well, was it in 1984, do you think?
9 A I believe so, yes.
10 0 The first part or the latter part of the year?
11 A I don't remember.
12 0 All right.
O 13 And what are the duties of an inspector who 14 inspects configurations?
15 A Configuration inspectors are responsible for going out 16 and making sure that the specific hangers that will hold 17 like conduit or cable pan are properly installed and in 18 the correct location.
19 0 Did you qualify for any other certifications?
20 A Yes, sir: receiving of materials on-site.
21 0 And what are the duties of that particular activity?
22 A Receiving duties -- we receive materials on-site that 23 are nuclear-grade materials, and our responsibility is 24 to check them and make sure that they are the proper
() 25 materials that were ordered on-site for installation in Sonntag Reporting Service, Ltd. _
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1 the plant.
2 Q Do you recall when you received that certification?
3 A No, sir; sometime in the year 1984, I believe it was.
4 0 In 1984?
5 A I'm not really sure on that one. I can't remember.
6 0 Were you ever certified in cable pan?
7 A Yes, sir.
8 Q What are the duties of a cable pan inspector?
9 A A cable pan inspector's duties are to make sure that the 10 cable pan is properly installed at the specific location 11 per the drawings.
12 Q Do you recall when you became certified as such an 13 inspector?
14 A I trained in it previously, and my certifications didn't 15 come until quite a while later. I'm not specifically 16 sure when that happened.
17 Q Do you recall the year?
18 A No, sir.
19 Q Now, you've indicated that you're qualified in conduit 20 -- certified, I should say, in conduit, cable pan, 21 configurations, receipt and receiving.
22 Did you ever actually perform those duties as an 23 inspector at Comstock?
24 A Yes, sir.
(} 25 0 Which ones?
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1 A I believe I did conduit and configurations for -- when I 2 was employed by Comstock and possibly receiving, also, I 3 believe.
4 0 Now, I don't mean by my question to limit your 5 employment activity while you were employed by BESTCO, 6 so let me ask the question differently.
7 During the time that you were employed by Comstock 8 or BESTCO, did you ever conduct, in fact, conduit 9 inspections?
10 A Yes, sir.
11 Q And did you ever , conduct cable pan inspections?
12 A Yes, sir.
Os 13 For any particular length of time, do you recall?
Q 14 A No.
15 0 How about receipt and receiving inspections? Did you 16 ever perf orm those?
17 A Yes, sir.
18 Q And finally configuration inspections? Did you ever 19 perf orm those at Comstock?
20 A Yes, sir.
l 21 Q Now, you indicated to me that you first became employed 22 at Comstock in October of '83, and you worked in the 23 vault for six to eight months.
24 A Yes, sir.
() 25 Q Now, did these inspections that we have been discussing l
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1 -- did they come during that time you were at the vault 2 or afterwards?
3 A They were af ter the time I was at the vault.
4 There was a period of time in there while I was in 5 the vault that I was pulled out to train in the area, 6 and then off and on you were -- you would do inspections 7 in the field.
8 Q But in the main, during the six to eight months you were 9 assigned to the vault, that was the primary work 10 responsibility that you had?
11 A Yes, si r.
12 O You stated that when you first came aboard at Comstock 13 in October,1983, that you were a document reviewer.
14 Did you have occasion to progress any higher in 15 terms of your responsibilities at -- while you worked at 16 the vault?
17 A Yes, sir.
18 0 Can you tell me what those responsibilities were and the 19 job titles?
20 A Af ter a period of time, I became a Lead in the vault and 21 was responsible for running the vault.
22 0 A Lead Inspector?
23 A Yes.
24 Q Do you remember approximately when that was?
25 A No, I can't remember specifically.
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1 0 Well, it had to be sometime in the six- to eight-month 2 period that you worked in the vault; right?
3 A Yes.
4 0 That's only an eight-month period. <
5 Do you think it was in the early part of the 6 eight-month period, six to eight months, or was it in 7 the latter part?
8 A No. It *;as in the latter part.
9 0 The latter part?
10 A Yes, sir.
11 0 So that would likely be sometime in early 19857 12 A No. I believe it would be '84.
O 13 JUDGE GROSSMAN: Excuse me.
14 Do you have the year right?
15 THE WITNESS: I started in '83, sir.
16 MR. GALLO: Yes, yes, yes.
17 I'm sorry. I should have said "the early part of 18 1984."
19 A (Continuing. ) I should say the middle part -- well, 20 somewhere around there, yes. I don't specifically 21 remember the exact time.
22 BY MR. GALLO:
23 0 Now, Mr. Gorman, do you know a Mr. Saklak?
24 A Yes, sir, I do.
(} 25 0 Was he ever your supervisor?
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%i 1 A No, sir.
2 0 While you worked -- during the time you worked at 3 Comstock and while he was working there as well, did you 4 have occasion to observe his behavior in the workplace?
5 A Yes, sir.
6 Q Did you observe his behavior towards the QC Inspectors?
7 A Yes, sir, on one occasion I did -- well, I should say on 8 several occasions, but the one that stands out most in 9 my mind was a situation.
10 0 All right.
11 Can you describe for me your perception of his 7.- 12 behavior?
D 13 A Well, his behavior at the time of -- that I observed 14 that stands out most in my mind was he was very -- he 15 was very upset with an inspector and became very 16 belligerent with him and used extreme prof anity towards 17 the individual.
18 Q Did he shout and yell at him?
19 A Yes, sir.
20 Q Did he gesture angrily towards him in any way, do you 21 recall?
22 A He was very upset. I guess he was kind of angry, and he 23 was upset with the individual and tried to -- I don't 24 know how you'd say it.
25 He was more or less trying to get the individual to
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1 be quiet, but he was doing it very --
2 0 was he abusive?
3 A Yes.
4 Q Now, was that your perception generally of Mr. Saklak's 5 behavior towards QC Inspectors or was that only just 6 this one instance?
7 A Just the one instance that I had a chance to observe.
8 I wasn't in contact with him that much. He -- most 9 of the QC Inspectors' area was upstairs, above the vault 10 area; and on occasion Mr. Saklak would come to the vault 11 for certain papers or whatever.
12 0 Are you aware of an argument in August of '84 between 13 Mr. Saklak and Mr. Seeders, John Seeders?
14 A No, sir.
15 Q Did you hear about such an argument?
16 A Yes, sir.
17 Q How was it that you heard about it?
18 What were the circumstances that caused you to l 19 learn about this incident?
t
- 20 A I don't really remember; just at that time it was 21 discussed by several of the inspectors, and it was l 22 second-hand f rom all the individuals that I heard the l
23 information f rom.
l 24 0 Was this -- would you characterize it as " shoptalk"; you 25 learned it through that mechanism?
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5719 1 A Yes, sir.
2 0 And what was the shoptalk with respect to Mr. Saklak's 3 behavior towards Mr. Seeders?
4 A I don't recall at this time what it was. It was quite a 5 while ago.
6 Q Do you recall whether his behavior was characterized as 7 abusive?
8 A Yes. I heard that as shoptalk.
9 Q And do you recall whether it was characterized as a 10 situation where he was shouting at Mr. Seeders?
11 A Yes, sir.
s, 12 Q Are you aware of an argument between Mr. Saklak and Mr.
~
13 Franco Rolan that occurred in November of 1984?
14 A No, sir.
15 Q Had you had occasion to hear about it during the course 16 of your work at Comstock?
17 A Possibly, yes. I don't remember the specific instance, 18 though.
19 0 Well, let's take it a step at a time.
20 Do you reca31 hearing about it through shoptalk?
21 A I don't remember.
22 0 Well, have you ever become aware of an argument between 23 Mr. Rolan and Mr. Saklak?
24 A Possibly at one time it was shoptalk, but I -- the only
(} 25 one I specifically remember was the one with Mr.
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1 Seeders.
2 0 All right.
3 Did you become aware of an argument between Mr.
4 Saklak and Mr. Snyder?
5 A Yes, through shoptalk.
6 0 And how was Mr. Saklak's behavior characterized to you 7 through this shoptalk, in terms of his interaction with 8 Mr. Snyder?
9 A In what way do you mean, sir?
10 0 Well, was Mr. Saklak's behavior characterized as 11 abusive?
12 That is, to Mr. Snyder.
7 13 A Through shoptalk, yes.
14 0 And through the shoptalk, was his behavior characterized 15 as being one of shouting at Mr. Snyder?
16 A I don' t know if there was a shouting match.
17 I -- I'm not really sure what transpired at that i
18 time. It was just that there were some statements that 19 Mr. Saklak made that were kind of derogatory towards Mr.
f 20 Snyder.
l l
21 Q And it was your general impression that he was abusive 22 towards Mr. Snyder? l l
l 23 A Possibly, yes.
24 0 I mean, is that what you heard through the shoptalk?
i 25 A Yes, yes, sir.
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1 Q All right.
2 Now, you mentioned one incident that you yourself 3 witnessed; is that correct?
4 A Yes, sir.
! 5 0 And who was the inspector involved with Mr. Saklak?
6 A Joe Hii, Jr.
7 0 And is Mr. Hii -- or was at the time Mr. Hii a QC 8 Inspector at Comstock?
9 A Yes, sir.
10 0 And can you explain -- and did you witness this 11 incident?
12 A Yes, sir.
13 0 Can you explain what you saw?
14 A Well, the incident took place down at the vault area 15 where I was working at at the time, and I think Mr. Hii 16 approached Mr. Saklak to tell him some specific 17 inf ormati on. I'm not really sure what it was at this 18 time.
1 19 Mr. Saklak became very outraged with him and f 20 continually told him to shut his mouth and became very i
21 loud and obnoxious.
22 Q Do you remember what the substance of the discussion was 23 about?
24 A No, sir, I don't remember specifically.
l
(} 25 Q Did you know it at the time when you heard it and you've I
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O 1 since forgotten it? Is that it?
2 A No.
3 The only thing I remember was what transpired; that 4 the inspector was trying to tell him something, and he 5 just practically refused to listen.
6 0 Well, how did the incident end?
7 A I think Mr. Hii just walked away. He finally just left.
8 0 Did you talk to Mr. Hii about the incident af terwards?
9 A I don't believe so, no. I just --
10 0 Did you and Mr. Saklak ever interact during' the 11 performance of your duties at Comstock?
12 A We had occasion to work together in certain instances.
O 13 He would come to the vault, as I was a Lead, and want 14 specific information on stuff that might be in the 15 vault.
16 0 This is -- he wpuld come to the vault at the time you 17 were the Lead Inspector for the vault?
18 A Yes, sir.
19 0 And explain for me briefly just how the vault works.
l 20 Can anybody just walk into the vault and get l
21 whatever they want or are there some controls imposed?
22 A There are controls imposed.
23 There's a list on the door of people who have l 24 authorized acceus to the vault area. At the time I was 25 in charge as a Lead in the vault, it was my l
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1 responsibility to make sure that program was followed.
2 If a person was not given access to the vault by 3 Mr. DeWald in a written memo -- either verbally or by 4 small written memo -- he would give permission for that 5 individual to have access to the vault for that day.
6 0 Well, could an individual just come up to the vault door 7 and ask for a specific document and request that you 8 retrieve it for him?
9 A Yes, sir.
10 0 could anybody do that or did that require specific 11 authorization?
12 A No. Anyone that was available could do that:
7S U 13 Engineering, QC Inspectors. Commonwealth Edison did it 14 for audits.
15 0 Were the documents checked out and kept track of if they 16 were given out?
17 A Most of the time we never let them leave the vault area.
18 They were given access to look at them there. In 19 specific instances Mr. DeWald would give permission to 20 have them signed out or sign them out himself.
21 0 But if an individual wanted to come in the vault and 22 look for himself at whatever documents he was interested 23 in, that had to be cleared by Mr. DeWald first; is 24 that --
() 25 A Correct.
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1 0 -- correct?
2 A Yes, or his Assistant Manager, who was Mr. Seese at that 3 time.
4 0 And when Mr. Saklak came to the vault while you were the 5 Lead Inspector, did he have occasion to request 6 documents?
7 A He would request them and look at them, yes, 8 specifically.
9 0 Did he ever want to go into the vault to find his own 10 documents?
11 A on cer$ain occasions I believe he did come into the 12 vault to look for certain things, but someone would O 13 assist him in some way.
14 0 Was he a -- one of the individuals that was authorized 15 on a routine basis by Mr. DeWald to enter the vault?
16 A I can't remember specifically.
17 0 Well, during this activity, did you ever have occasion 18 to ref use Mr. DeWald's -- I'm sorry; Mr. Saklak's
! 19 request for documents?
l 20 A If he wanted documents to take with him, yes, I would l
l 21 refuse him until I had prior permission to take them out l
22 of the vault or make copies of any type.
l
, 23 If he wanted to look at them at the vault, no, I l
24 never refused him.
() 25 0 All right.
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1 Well, did he ever request of you the opportunity to 2 carry documents away from the vault for his use?
3 A For his own personal use?
4 0 Yes.
5 A I don't think so.
6 0 Well, for his use in his work activities.
7 A Like I say, he had to have prior written permission 8 before he could take those with him.
9 0 I understand that.
10 Well, did he ever request them of you without 11 having the prior approval?
12 A I'm sure he did at times, but I wouldn't give him access 13 until he had gotten written permission or verbal 14 permission f rom Mr. DeWald.
15 0 What I'm trying to zero in on is if you recall at any 16 time that he requested documents of you and the 17 requisite approval from Mr. DeWald was not present.
18 Do you recall any instances like that?
19 A I don't remember.
20 0 In your dealings with Mr. Saklak, did he ever become 21 loud or abusive to you?
22 A No, sir.
23 0 What about when you refused to give him documents he 24 wanted? Did he ever become loud and abusive then?
25 A No, he never did.
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(d 1 I think there were times that he was about to.
2 0 Can you explain that?
3 A Well, just the way he would come across. He would want 4 the documents, and I would refuse him until he got 5 permission f rom Mr. DeWald or Mr. Seese.
6 Q So you remember an occasion where he wanted documents 7 and he didn't have the authorization from DeWald, and 8 you refused to give it to him; right?
9 A I ref used to let him take it f rom the vault area, yes.
10 0 Okay.
11 A He was qui te f ree to see it at the vault; but to take it 12 out of the vault area, it was my responsibility to make U-- 13 sure that nobody did that without permission.
14 Q And on occasion Mr. Saklak asked to do that even though 15 he didn' t have the requisite approval from DeWald?
16 A Yes, sir.
17 Q Do you recall how of ten that might have occurred?
18 A No, sir.
l
- 19 0 And, now, you mentioned in your testimony that while he 20 wasn't loud and abusive to you -- I don't want to 21 mischaracterize your testimony, but you seemed to 22 indicate that maybe he was close to becoming in that l
23 fashion.
l 24 A Yes.
f'T 25 Q Do you recall -- can you explain better just what his l \.)
l Sonntag Reporting Service, Ltd.
ueneva, __
Illinois 001ag (312) 232-0262
5727 1 behavior was?
2 What made you think that, that he was about to --
3 I'll use the word " erupt"?
4 A Well, his expression on his f ace would become -- I don't 5 know how to really explain it; just by the expression on 6 his face, and he seemed to get kind of red in the face.
7 Q He looked like he was getting mad; is that it?
8 A Yes.
9 Q But he held his temper; is that correct?
10 A Yeah.
11 Q Now, let me see if I understand your testimony.
12 You were aware of the Seeders incident by this
()
13 tim e --
14 A Yes.
15 0 -- is that true?
16 A Uh-huh.
17 0 You were aware of his general reputation of losing his 18 temper and being abusive; is that correct?
19 A Yes.
20 MR. CASSEL : You said -- excuse me.
21 You said "his general reputation," and the witness 22 answered "yes."
23 Just so the record is clear, are you referring to 24 Mr. Saklak or Mr. Seeders?
(} 25 MR. GALLO: I'm referring to Mr. Saklak.
Sonntag Reporting Service, Ltd.
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1 BY MR. GALLO:
2 0 Is that how you understood my question?
3 A Yes, sir, that's how I interpreted this.
4 0 Thank you.
5 Nevertheless, despite this knowledge, when he 6 requested to carry away documents without the proper 7 approval, you refused to give it to him --
8 A Yes, sir.
9 0 -- is that correct?
10 Weren't you intimidated by his presence?
11 A Yes, sir, to some extent; but it was my job to make sure g- 12 that that didn' t happen.
~
13 0 And is that what you did?
14 A Yes, sir.
15 0 When you say you were intimidated by Mr. Saklak, how 16 would you characterize your feelings at the time?
17 A Well, the feelings were as he was a Quality Control 18 Supervisor and I was a Lead in that respect and he had a 19 lot more authority than I did, but yet my direction came 20 mainly from the Assistant QC Manager or the Manager.
21 Q Well, did his -- did his demands f or the documents make 22 you nervous?
23 A In a way, yes.
24 0 Were you worried that perhaps you might get in trouble 25 for refusing him?
(')T Sonntag Reporting Service, Ltd.
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5729 (J
1 A No.
2 I just was kind of afraid that he might even lose 3 his temper or become abusive with me.
4 0 were you af raid of physical violence?
5 A No, sir.
6 0 You just -- you were just af raid of the argument, the 7 confrontation?
8 A Kind of a nervous situation, yes.
9 0 All right.
10 Do you know a Mr. Marino?
11 A Yes, sir.
12 Q Did you ever have occasion to work with him while you O 13 were discharging your duties at Comstock?
14 A Did I occasionally work with him --
15 0 Yes.
16 A -- or meet with him and talk with him?
17 0 Work with him, first.
18 A Not specifically work with him.
19 He came on-site several times.
20 0 Can you tell me the occasion that you might have met 21 with him?
22 A Oh, he would come around and introduce himself as Mr.
23 Marino and talk to the different individuals in the 24 different areas.
25 Who is Mr. Marino?
(]) Q Sonntag Reporting Service, Ltd.
Geneva, Illinois 60134 (312) 232-0262
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O 1 A I think he was Quality Assurance Manager at the time for 2 Comstock -- Commonwealth -- I'm sorry; Comstock, out of 3 the corporate office.
4 0 Do you know where the corporate office was?
5 A I believe it was in Pennsylvania. I'm not really sure 6 of the city.
7 0 Did Mr. Marino ever shout at you or abuse you in any way 8 during your meetings?
9 A No, sir.
10 0 Did you ever feel intimidated by him?
11 A No, si r.
-- 12 0 Do you know Mr. Seltmann?
?
13 A Yes, sir.
14 0 Did you have occasion to work with Mr. Seltmann during 15 the time of your duties -- performing your duties at 16 Comstock?
17 A Yes, sir.
18 0 can you explain the occasions?
19 A Again, in the same type -- similar situation.
20 In the vault area, Mr. Seltmann would -- as QC 21 Manager, would need access to the vault; and he would 22 come in and look at specific items or records or 23 whatever he needed to do his audits.
24 0 Did he ever ask to carry away documents without the
() 25 requisite approval from Mr. DeWald?
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]
1 A No, I don't believe so.
2 He wasn't in the vault that much; just on certain 3 occasions he would come in and look at certain items.
4 0 Did you have occasion to become familiar with Mr.
5 Seltmann's management style?
6 A Yes, sir.
7 0 Can you describe it for me?
8 A I thought Mr. Seltmann was very well organized in his 9 different -- his style of management.
10 He was a f airly easy individual to get along with.
11 I never had any problems with him. He was very 12 cooperative on anything that he might want or how he 13 would address me in wanting things.
14 0 Was he ever your supervisor?
15 A No, sir.
16 0 When you say he was " organized" -- or "very well 17 organized," can you explain better for me what you mean I
l 18 by that?
t 19 A Well, he seemed to know what he wanted when he came to 20 the vault to perf orm a specific audit. He knew exactly 21 what he wanted.
l 22 0 Was he calm in his manner?
23 A Yes, si r.
24 0 Well, did he ever have occasion to shout at you or abuse 25 you?
(])
l l Sonntag Reporting Service, Ltd.
l Geneva, Illinois 60134 (312) 232-0262 i
5732
(
l A No, sir.
2 Q Did you ever feel intimidated by Mr. Seltmann?
3 A No, sir.
4 Q Did you ever feel harassed by Mr. Seltmann?
5 A No, sir.
6 Q Do you know Mr. Seese?
7 A Yes, sir.
8 0 I believe you testified that he was your supervisor 9 while you worked in the vault.
10 A Yes, sir.
11 0 Did you become f amiliar with his management style?
12 A Yes, sir.
O 13 0 Can you describe that for us?
14 .A I believe Mr. Seese was also very well organized in 15 everything he done.
16 I had close contact with him there for quite a 17 while because I reported directly to him. He gave me a 18 lot of directions on questions that I would have 19 pertaining to the vault area or on situations where I 20 needed assistance in making a decision.
l 21 Q How would you describe his manner?
22 A Very calm, collected.
23 Q Did he ever establish deadlines for the completion of l 24 work for you?
l l
(} 25 A I don't remember.
l i
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(~)
\. /
1 I'm sure he did; at some times there were specific 2 items that he wanted something done with.
3 0 By a certain time?
4 A Yes.
5 0 Did he -- how did he indicate to you that he wanted it 6 done by a certain time?
7 A Sometimes I believe he would send me memos or he would 8 verbally tell me that he needed something by this date 9 or to try and track it down.
10 0 And how did you feel about getting these memos?
11 Did you feel nervous or threatened by them?
i 12 A No, sir.
[)
'~
13 0 Did you have occasion to -- strike that.
14 At the time when Mr. Seese might have established a 15 deadline either orally or in writing, did you have 16 occasion to af terwards discuss with him whether or not l 17 it was feasible to achieve the deadline?
l l 18 A I don' t really remember.
l 19 Q Did you ever -- do you recall not meeting one of his 20 deadlines?
21 A I don't remember. Possibly I may have; I may not have.
22 Most of the time I tried to meet all the deadlines l
l 23 that I could in any way possible.
l 24 0 Well, were you always successf ul?
l 1
() 25 A Oh, no, not always.
-~
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5734 (3
U 1 Q Now, we're talking about Mr. Seese.
2 Can you recall perhaps circumstances when you 3 didn't meet one of his deadlines?
4 A No, sir.
5 Q Do you recall whether or not he ever shouted at you or 6 abused you in any way for failing to meet a deadline?
7 A No, sir.
8 Q Did he ever have occasion to shout at you generally?
9 A No, sir.
10 Q Do you recall ever being abused by Mr. Seese generally?
11 A No, sir.
,- 12 Q Did you feel harassed or intimidated at any time by Mr.
V) 13 Seese?
14 A No, sir.
15 Q Now, I think in your testimony -- at least I'm unclear 16 as to -- my recollection of it is a little unclear in my 17 mind at least as to whether or not Mr. DeWald ever was 18 your direct supervisor or not.
19, A Yes, he was.
} 20 Q He was?
21 A Yes. I reported direct -- directly to him for a period 22 of time when I was the Lead in the vault.
23 Q Oh, is that right?
24 A Yes, sir.
/~ 25 0 I see.
V) l Sonntag Reporting Service, , Ltd.
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5735 h
1 So you started out as a doc reviewer in October of 2 '83 and at that time generally reported to Mr. Seese?
3 A I believe he was in charge of the vault at that time.
4 0 Then you became a Lead Inspector for the vault in early 5 to mid 1984.
6 Is that about the time when you began to report 7 directly to Mr. DeWald?
8 A No, sir. At that time I was still reporting to Mr.
9 Seese. He was in charge of the vault at that time.
1 10 At a later period of time, for which I can't i 11 specifically identify a date, the organizational chart 12 was changed and Mr. Seese was relieved of those f,
U 13 responsibilities and I did report directly to Mr.
14 DeWald.
15 0 And at this time did you work in the vault --
16 A Yes, sir.
17 0 -- as the Lead?
18 A I was the Lead in the vault.
l l 19 0 All right.
l 20 And did you have occasion to observe, the management t
21 style of Mr. DeWald at this time?
l l
22 A Yes, sir.
l 23 Q How would you describe Mr. DeWald's management style?
l
! 24 A I would say his management style kind of reminded me of
() 25 being in the military.
Sonntag Reporting Service, Ltd.
Geneva, Illinois 60134 (312) 232-0262
, 5736 1 0 Well, did you think he was --
2 JUDGE GROSSMAN: Excuse me.
3 Did you finish your answer?
4 MR. GALLO: I didn't mean to cut you off, 5 THE WITNESS: That's all right. I'm sorry.
6 Go ahead.
7 MR. GALLO: If you'd like to add to that, 8 feel free.
9 THE WITNESS: No. That's fine.
10 MR. GALLO: I was going to follow up anyhow.
11 THE WITNESS: Go ahead.
> 12 BY MR. GALLO:
! 13 0 You say that he was -- his management style seemed to be
! 14 as if he was in the military.
15 I believe I read in your deposition -- I recall you 16 using the term that he was " militaristic."
l 17 A Yes.
18 0 What did you mean by that term?
19 A Well, the military style is, in my opinion -- in certain l
l 20 instances in the military when one person messes up and 21 does something wrong, they use a type of mass l
l 22 discipline.
23 His management style was along those similar lines.
24 Q Did you feel that he was too authoritative?
25 A Yes.
(])
l l
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l _
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5737
,f-w) 1 0 Too demanding?
2 A In some instances, yes.
3 0 What instances do you have in mind?
4 A Just my own personal feelings that sometimes he would 5 demand more work out of individuals as a mass.
6 Instead of approaching individuals on a one-on-one 7 basis and saying that they were not doing enough work or 8 accomplishing what they were specifically assigned to 9 do, he would bring the whole group tot, ally together and 10 tell everybody they were messing up and weren't doing 11 enough work.
12 Q Let's start first with Mr. DeWald's management style as
('~#)
13 it affected you when you were the Lead Inspector in the 14 vault.
15 Was he demanding in making assignments to you 16 during that time?
17 A Yes, sir.
18 0 Would he request you to do specific work by a certain 19 deadline?
f 20 A Yes, sir, l
21 Q And how did you -- how do you believe that that activity 22 was a demanding activity?
23 A Just by the impression of how he would come across to 24 give you the assignment to do it.
l
(} 25 Q Can you explain better how he came across -- how he came l Sonntag Reporting Service, Ltd.
I Geneva, Illinois 60134 (312) 232-0262
5738 O
1 across to you?
2 -A Well, my impression was there was no options; you met 3 his deadline.
4 Q So he was kind of inflexible?
5 A Yes.
6 Q was that the appearance that he had?
7 A Yes, yes.
8 Q Did you ever protest when he established a deadline and 9 say, "Look. It can' t be done by that time"?
10 A Yes.
11 Q How did he react to that?
12 A He really didn't want to hear that.
( 13 He just wanted it done --
0 14 A Right.
15 Q -- by whatever the deadline was?
16 A Yes.
17 Q Now, you make ref erence to these " mass meetings. "
18 A Yes.
19 0 Can you just tell me what -- what you mean by the term
! 20 " mass meetings"?
21 A Well, the inspectors were called in to the main office 22 at several times. They were always on a Friday or 23 whatever. They were set up, and there would be a memo 24 sent out. For a period of time, I think we always had
(} 25 them on a Friday at 4:00 o' clock.
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a 1 Certain items would be discussed pertaining to 2 whatever was going on or --
3 0 Who would call the meetings?
4 A Mr. DeWald.
5 0 I see.
6 Did you attend these meetings?
7 A Yes.
8 0 And what was there about Mr. DeWald's style at these 9 meetings that you didn' t approve of ?
10 A Well, again, like I said, he would have a specific 11 problem with an individual, but he would address the 7s 12 issue with the whole group.
d 13 Instead of going one-on-one with the individual 14 that he had a problem with, he would more or less tell 15 everyone they were having -- he was having problems with 16 all of them.
17 Q So would he identify the individual at the mass 18 meetings?
19 A I don't recall any such instance.
20 0 So if I understand your testimony, if ..a had a 21 particular problem with one or more inspectors, he 22 tended to generalize it and discuss it generally at 23 these meetings --
24 A Yes.
25 0 -- is that right?
(}
Sonntag Reporting Service, Ltd.
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5740 1 A Yes.
2 0 Kind of suggest that everybody was --
3 A Yes, sir.
4 0 Let me finish the question.
5 He was kind of suggesting that everybody was I'll 6 use the term " guilty" of whatever offense that he 7 believed had occurred; is that correct?
8 A Yes, sir.
9 0 And you didn' t appreciate that?
10 A No, sir.
11 Q Was that because you yourself didn't feel guilty with i 12 respect to these circumstances?
( 13 A Yes, sir.
14 0 Then you believe instead that Mr. DeWald ought to seek 15 out whoever the individual or individuals were and 16 discuss it with them privately?
l 17 A Yes, sir.
18 0 Well, how would you compare DeWald's management style 19 with the style of Mr. Seese?
20 A If Mr. Seese had a problem with something I was doing, 21 he would -- he would addresa it with me directly as a 22 one-on-one individual.
23 Q Did he handle the work assignments any diff erently than 24 Mr. DeWald --
25 A No, I don't believe so.
/"_3
(/ ;
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l 5741 l
CE) 1 0 -- in terms of establishing deadlines?
2 A No, I don't think so.
3 0 Did you ever have occasion to protest to Mr. Seese that 4 you couldn't get the work done by a certain time?
5 A Yes, sir.
6 0 And how did he react to that?
7 A I think on occasions he'd say, "W ell , try to do the best 8 you can. Meet the deadline if you can."
9 0 All right.
10 A It all depended on what priority it had.
11 If it was a priority-type situation where they had 12 to have it, he would express it to me that it was a very 13 dire need and to drop everything else I was doing and 14 research whatever I had to to get the information to 15 him.
16 Q Did you consider Mr. Seese's style to be demanding?
17 A Not really, no.
18 0 Did you consider him to be militaristic --
19 A No, sir.
20 0 -- or too authoritati e?
21 A No, sir.
22 O Did you consider Mr. DeWald's management style, as you 23 described it in answer to my questions, intimidating to 24 you?
l
{} 25 A Yes, sir, Sonntag Reporting Service, Ltd.
Geneva, Illinois 60134 (312) 232-0262 1
5742 O
v 1 0 Well, did he -- again while he was supervising you when 2 you were the Lead in the vault, did he have occasion to 3 shout at you at any time?
4 A No.
5 0 Did he ever abuse you in any way in a manner similar to, 6 say, Mr. Saklak?
7 A No.
8 JUDGE GROSSMAN: Excuse me.
9 Was that question "in any way" or "similar to Mr.
10 Saklak"?
11 Did he abuse you in any way?
12 THE WITNESS: Mr. Seese or Mr. Saklak?
O 13 JUDGE GROSSMAN: Mr. DeWald.
14 Were we talking about Mr. DeWald?
15 MR. GALLO: Yes.
16 JUDGE GROSSMAN : Did Mr. DeWald abuse you in 17 any way?
18 TH E WITN ESS : Some derogatory remarks, yes, 19 in certain instances.
20 JUDGE GROSSMAN : Okay.
21 I thought I saw him answering, and then you 22 added --
23 MR. G ALLO: You asked the question, Judge, 24 that I didn' t ask, but I'm glad you asked it.
() 25 JUDGE GROSSMAN : Mr. Gallo, if you look back i
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v 1 in the transcript, you'll see you asked two questions in 2 one.
3 Could you read the question back again, please?
4 (The record was thereupon read by the 5 Reporter.)
6 JUDGE GROSSMAN: It's either "in any way" or 7 "similar to Mr. Saklak," and we got two different 8 answers.
9 MR. GALLO: Well, I thought that was one 10 question. All right.
11 BY MR. GALLO:
12 O N ow , you said that Mr. DeWald was -- had -- was 13 derogatory -- that is, made some derogatory comments 14 towards you; is that correct?
15 A Yes, sir.
16 Q Do you recall the circumstances when that was?
17 A No, sir.
18 Q But you recall that he made some derogatory comments?
19 A He used some abusive language in some instances where he 20 -- in some cases, yes, which -- I thought it was 21 uncalled for and unwarranted at the time.
4 22 Q Do you remember now the occasion where he used the 23 abusive language?
24 A No.
(} 25 Q Well, did he use abusive language in your discussions Sonntag Reporting Service, Ltd.
Geneva, Illinois 60134 (312) 232-0262
--s-- y -.,,-w + - . - . - , ,- - -
5744 s
0a 1 over the reasonableness of the deadlines he set?
2 A I believe at times he did, yes.
3 In some instances where I didn't think it was 4 feasible to meet the deadline, he would use the language 5 that he under any circumstances wanted it done by that 6 time.
7 0 Okay, 8 He would say to you that, "Regardless of your view, 9 I want it done by that time"?
10 A Yes.
11 Q Well, did he ever swear at you or curse at you?
12 A Yes.
k 13 0 What did he say?
14 A I don't specifically recall what he did say. He did use 15 language that was -- I thought was unbecoming a manager.
16 0 I see.
17 Do you remember on how many occasions --
18 A No, si r.
19 0 -- this might have been?
20 Was it more than once?
21 A I don't recall.
22 0 Could it have been only once?
23 A I don't remember specifically.
24 0 All right.
!(} 25 Now, when you worked in the vault under Mr.
Sonntag Reporting Service, Ltd.
Geneva, 111imois 60134 (312)' 232-0262
5745 1 DeWald's supervision as the Lead, did you have any 2 assistance at that time?
3 A In what way do you mean " assistance"?
4 0 Well, was there somebody else in the vault working with 5 you to help you out?
6 A There was several people in the vault that worked.
7 I did mostly the document review every day that 8 came into the vault before it went into the storage 9 cabinets.
10 0 I'm sorry. Go ahead.
11 Are you finished?
12 A I'm finished.
O 13 0 Did you have anybody to assist you in this activity?
14 A Not for a period of time, no. I did most of it myself.
15 Then later on they assigned another inspector into 16 the vault area to help me review.
17 0 Was this during the time that Mr. DeWald was your 18 supervisor --
19 A Yes.
20 0 -- direct supervisor?
21 Did you ever go to Mr. DeWald and say that you 22 needed help in the vault and that --
23 A Several times, yes.
l 24 Q Did he provide it?
25 A No.
(]}
Sonntag Reporting Service, Ltd.
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5746 (9
v 1 Q What were the circumstances that you finally di6 get 2 this assistance?
3 A I don' t really recall. It's just that af ter a period of 4 time, I guess he got tired of hearing me complain about 5 it and provided me some assistance.
6 Q So he ultimately did provide it?
7 A Af ter some period of time.
8 0 Do you recall how long you had to nag him before he 9 provided the assistance?
10 A I don't remember.
11 MR. CASSEL: Objection.
12 BY MR. GALLO:
7-
~
13 0 Was it longer than a month?
14 A Yes.
15 0 Was it longer than two months?
16 A Possibly three or four months.
17 Q How did he react to your initial request for help?
18 A I didn't need it.
19 0 Did he -- did he explain to you why he believed that?
20 A No.
21 Q Now, when you were working in the vault as a Lead, what l 22 were your primary duties at that time?
l 23 A I was responsible for all the file clerks and all the 24 document review of documents that came into the vault on I
25 a daily basis; researching specific projects that needed
(])
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i Geneva, Illincts 00114 (312) 232-0262
5747 p
O 1 to be done; assisting people at the vault door that 2 needed help with anything, wanted to see documents; 3 controlling access to the vault.
4 0 Are you finished?
5 A Yes.
6 0 Were you the only person doing the document review?
7 A Yes, sir, for a period of time, I was.
8 0 We're you the only person doing the research for these 9 special research assignments?
10 A It all depends if I was directly given them or if 11 someone else would research them.
12 They would give access to certain individuals to O 13 come into the vault to do research.
14 Q And did Mr. DeWald have occasion to give you assignments 15 in addition to your normal work duties?
16 A Yes, sir.
17 0 Was it for these assignments that he established 18 deadlines that you felt were unreasonable?
19 A Yes.
20 Q Well, how did you get your work done if you had these 21 special assignments and you had your normal work to do?
22 A A lot of it built up or backed up, and I had to rush to 23 get it done.
24 Q Did you establish your own priorities as to which came 25 first?
(])
l l
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5748 r's V
1 A More or less it was established for me by Mr. DeWald, 2 the way he would come across and say how he wanted it 3 done and when he wanted it done.
4 0 So if he gave you an assignment and said he wanted it 5 done rather quickly, did you put that at the top of the 6 pile?
7 A Yes, si r.
8 Q And did you re-arrange your priorities with respect to 9 your other tasks?
10 A Yes, sir.
11 Q Did you have occasion to work overtime to address this 12 workload?
O a 13 A We worked primarily ten hours a day.
14 Q How many days a week?
15 A Normally five, and an eight-hour Saturday.
16 Q Is that all straight time or is that overtime, some of 17 it?
I
- - 18 A Well, anything over eight hours is overtime, and i
19 Saturday, of course, was overtime.
l 20 0 Now, was the overtime mandatory or was it permissive?
l 21 A I think most of it -- the ten-hour days were mandatory.
22 Saturday was the kind of a deal that if they wanted i
23 you, they assigned you to come in.
24 0 And were you ever assigned to come in on Saturday?
(} 25 A Yes.
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5749 O
1 0 Did you object to that assignment?
2 A Most of the time, no.
3 0 Now, did you always meet the deadlines set by Mr.
4 DeWald?
5 A I tried to meet them as best I could. I'm not sure if I 6 did meet them all. I can't remember specifically.
7 There were a lot of deadlines that he would give 8 me. I would try to meet them. Like I say, they would 9 be my primary issue to do at that time.
10 0 I'll accept the proposition that you tried your best to 11 meet his deadlines, but were you always successful?
12 A N o.
13 Q Do you remember what his reaction was when you f ailed to 14 meet one of his deadlines?
15 A Well, he wasn't very happy about it.
16 0 Do you recall how of ten it happened that you didn't meet 17 one of his deadlines?
18 A No.
19 0 Was it more than once?
20 A I can't recall. I don't remember.
21 Q How did he find out that you didn't meet a deadline?
22 Did you seek him out and tell him or did he find 23 out some other way, do you know?
24- A Sometimes he'd put it in a memo form; and if he had the
] (} 25 memo and it became due that date and I didn't have it, I
Sonntag Reporting Service, Ltd.
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5750 0
1 he'd come and find me and ask me why I didn't have it 2 done or he would verbally give me'an order and he'd want 3 to do know why I didn't get it done at that time.
4 0 Were -- do you recall ever going to him and telling him 5 that, "The deadline is today, and I'm just not going to 6 get it done. I need a time extension"?
7 A I don' t remember.
8 Q You don't recall ever doing that?
9 A No.
10 0 Now, when you missed one of these deadlines and he 11 confronted you with it, did he yell at you then?
12 A No.
O 13 Q Did he abuse you in any way, use derogatory language?
14 A Yes.
15 Q What did he do? Did he -- at that point?
16 Did he give the work to somebody else?
17 A No, sir.
18 0 What did he do?
19 A He just wanted me to get it done at that time.
20 0 Did he -- well, the time now had passed.
21 Did he extend the deadline?
22 A You mean extend it further or --
23 0 Yes.
24 A He would -- I don't recall.
(} 25 I think he wanted it right then. He wanted me to Sonntag Reporting Service, Ltd.
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5751 0
1 drop everything I was doing and do it right now.
2 0 But now we' re at a point where the deadline has come and 3 passed.
4 Would he take the work away from you and give it to 5 somebody else or would he give you more time to finish 6 it?
7 A He would just give me more time to finish it.
8 0 Now, were you ever disciplined by Mr. DeWald f or f ailure 9 to meet these deadlines?
10 A I don't believe so.
11 0 Did he ever put a warning in your file because of it?
12 A I don't know.
O 13 0 Are you aware of the practice at Comstock that if a 14 warning is put in an inspector's personnel file, that a 15 copy is given to the individual involved?
16 Are you aware of that practice?
17 A No, sir.
18 0 To your knowledge, you were not given a warning?
j 19 A As far as I know, si r.
20 0 were you threatened in any way with being fired?
i 21 A No.
22 JUDGE GROSSMAN : Excuse me.
l 23 Were you af raid at the time that you might be 24 fired?
() 25 TH E WITN ESS : Possibly, yes.
1 Sonntag Reporting Service, Ltd.
- Geneva, Illinois 60134
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5752 (v9 1 BY MR. GALLO:
2 Q Now, despite your ability to apparently get extensions 3 of time to meet these deadlines set by DeWald -- strike 4 that. Let me ask you a different question.
5 Did Mr. DeWald ever discuss with you and urge you 6 to get the other work done that you -- that you had on 7 the back burner because you were doing his special 8 projects?
9 A No, sir.
10 Q He did not -- was he aware that you essentially were 11 letting your everyday work slide to do his special 12 proj ects?
( 13 A My belief was he wanted it done that way; he wanted his 14 work Priority No. 1. Everything else was to be let go 15 until it was accomplished.
16 Q And he was aware of that, to your knowledge?
17 A I would say so, yes.
18 Q And did he ever discipline you or threaten you because 19 your normal everyday work was backing up?
20 A No, sir.
! 21 Q Now, denpite Mr. DeWald's willingness to extend the 22 deadlines that you missed and to accommodate the 23 situation because you had so much work to do --
24 MR. CASSEL: I'm going to object to that
() 25 characterization.
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1 JUDGE GROSSMAN: Yes. It is objectionable.
2 I believe the witness indicated that Mr. DeWald, 3 when he didn't meet the deadline, would tell him to do 4 it right then.
5 Isn' t that correct?
6 THE WITNESS: Yes, sir.
7 MR. GALLO: All right.
8 BY MR. GALLO:
9 0 Well, I want to be clear on this point.
10 At the time that the deadline had come and passed, 11 did you request an extension specifically, do you
- 12 recall?
13 A I don't recall. I can't remember.
14 Q But it's your memory that DeWald gave you more time to 15 finish the job?
16 A Well, it depends on what you' re talking about as f ar as 17 amount of time: a day, a week or, you know, a few 18 minutes.
19 It was demanding. He wanted it done now and not 20 tom or row.
21 Q But he still gave you additional time?
22 JUDGE GROSSMAN: Well, Mr. Gallo, I don't 23 think that's a fair question.
24 The time had already passed, so what the witness is 25 saying is any time past that is additional time, and he
(]}
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/~')
\_J 1 wanted it done right then.
2 So if you look at "a few minutes" as being 3 additional time, as the witness says, the answer would 4 be yes.
5 Dut I don't think you can carry it further than 6 that, and I think the witness has been pretty clear as 7 to what was required.
8 BY MR. GALLO:
9 0 At the time when the deadline had come and passed and 10 Mr. DeWald was asking you whether or not the work was 11 completed and you said no, did you have occasion to 12 discuss how much additional time was needed to complete O 13 the particular job?
14 A There was no discussion. He demanded that it be done 15 yet.
16 0 He demanded it to be done now, but did he, in fact, 17 expect it to be done in the next few minutes?
18 A More or less, yes.
l 19 0 Was it feasible to do any of your jobs that were l
l 20 incomplete in the next few minutes?
21 A Possibly, yes. I don't remember.
l l 22 0 Well, did Mr. DeWald tell you that he wanted it done as 23 soon as possible and that was his way of getting the l
j 24 message across to you?
l ~T 25 He didn't literally expect you to get it done in i (%)
l l
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1 the next few minutes?
2 A That was my impression: that he wanted it done in the 3 next f ew minutes. He wanted it done now; not tomorrow, 4 but now.
5 Q Now, you've testified that you found Mr. DeWald 6 authoritative and militaristic and that he was too 7 demanding, as you've explained, and that he didn't 8 engage in sufficient one-on-one meetings with people.
9 A Yes, sir.
10 0 Is that a fair characterization of your testimony?
11 A Yes, sir.
i 12 0 You found his behavior to be intimidating to you; is 13 that correct?
14 A Yes, sir.
15 Q Mr. Gorman, I have here a dictionary, and it's Webster's 16 Ninth New Collegiate Dictionary. It's stuck together --
17 the pages.
i l 18 Webster defines " intimidate" as "to make timid or 19 fearful; f righten; to compel or deter by or as by l
l 20 threats."
21 Did Mr. DeWald's management style make you 22 fearful --
23 A Yes, si r .
24 0 -- and timid?
() 25 A Yes.
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(_)
1 Q Did it make you timid?
2 A Yes.
3 (Indicating.)
4 JUDGE GROSSMAN: The witness is nodding "yes" 5 to the second question.
6 BY MR. GALLO:
7 Q Did it frighten you?
8 A Yes, sir.
9 0 And in what way did it frighten you?
10 A It f rightened me in the manner that I thought he might 11 fire me.
12 0 All right.
7s
' O 13 And did his management style compel you to do 14 anything in the discharge of your duties that you
- 15 normally wouldn't have done but for that behavior by Mr.
16 DeWald?
17 A In what way do you mean?
18 0 Well, did you -- in conducting your document reviews, 19 did you attempt -- did you conduct them in a less 20 careful manner because of Mr. DeWald's behavior?
21 A In some instances, yes.
22 0 You did?
23 And did you -- can you explain to me just the 24 instances you have in mind and how you did that?
1 Q
N/
25 A Well, in instances where he would be demanding and want Sonntag Reporting Service, Ltd.
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I (J~')
l something at this time, I would have to lose my l
2 concentration on what I was previously doing and 3 concentrate on what he needed.
4 It would become disturbing and upsetting sometimes, 5 the way he demanded it, the way he came across that he 6 wanted it.
7 It was hard to go back and really concentrate on 8 what I was doing af ter that.
9 0 You mean whatever assignment he gave you?
10 A Not always every assignment; certain specific ones.
11 0 Can you bring one to mind?
12 A No, sir; just -- no.
O 13 JUDGE GROSSMAN: Excuse me. Mr. Gallo, I l
' 14 think you misunderstood the answer.
15 He's saying not trouble concentrating on the 16 assignment that Mr. DeWald gave him, but concentrating 17 on what he was working on bef ore Mr. DeWald came in with i
18 that assignment.
l l 19 Isn't that so?
20 MR. GALLO: I don't think that's the witness' l 21 testimony.
22 THE WITNESS : No, si r.
23 JUDGE GROSSFmN: Maybe I'm wrong. I thought 24 that's what he said.
() 25 MR. GUILD: I heard it the same way, Judge.
l Sonntag Reporting Service, Ltd.
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(T v
1 MR. CASS EL : I heard it both ways, Judge.
2 Maybe we can clear it up right now.
3 JUDGE GROSSMAN: Well, it's Mr. Gallo's 4 option.
5 BY MR. GALLO:
6 0 Let's go back over this ground.
7 I thought I heard you say that you became nervous 8 and upset with respect to the direction to change your 9 work assignment.
10 A Yes.
11 Q And did that feeling that you had cause you to do your 12 new work assignment in a less careful manner?
O 13 A You mean the specific assignment that he wanted done at 14 that time?
15 Q Yes.
16 A No.
17 Basically it would be afterwards where I would go 18 back and have to do my work that I was previously doing.
19 0 You'd have to return -- when you returned to your --
20 A Yes.
21 0 -- the job that was interrupted?
22 A Yes.
23 Q N ow , would this be some -- some hours or days later that 24 you returned to the job that was interrupted?
(} 25 A Basically the same day.
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.[vD 1 Q The same day.
2 But it was af ter some period of time?
3 A Yes.
4 Q N ow , what was there -- if I understand your testimony, 5 you were able to do the DeWald assignment that caused 6 the interruption reasonably carefully; is that correct?
7 But when you returned to your original assignment, 8 then you were upset and not able to exercise the same 9 care; is that correct?
10 A Yes.
11 0 Can you explain --
12 A It put me behind in my daily work.
13 Every day there was a certain amount of documents 14 that would come in. It was my responsibility to get 15 them reviewed on a daily basis.
16 0 It put you behind --
17 A Yes.
18 0 -- on doing this work?
19 A Yes.
20 Q And you tried to catch up; is that it?
21 A Yes.
22 Q And in what fashion, then, were you less careful?
23 A I would probably go over them a lot quicker than I 24 normally would if I had more time to do it.
(} 25 0 I see.
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1 So you'd just go through the documents more 2 quickly?
3 A Yes.
4 Q Do you recall any incident af terwards where you had 5 overlooked something that was brought to your attention 6 later?
7 A Yes. Some of the clerks would find some of the things 8 when they would file them, and they would show me that I 9 had missed something.
10 Q Now, were these instances where you were feeling these 11 feelings of being rushed or were these instances when 12 you weren' t being rushed?
O 13 Do you know the difference between the two? l 14 A Yeah; possibly both instances -- both ways. It can 15 happen in both ways, yeah, basically because when I l 16 would be given an assignment, I would rush to catch up 17 for that day.
18 The next day I'm further behind. The next day I'm 19 further behind. One just -- it snowballs. It leads to 20 a snowballing effect. It just continues to build.
l 21 0 Well, essentially it's your testimony that you were 22 getting further behind because of the need for 23 assistance or because of these interruptions by Mr.
24 DeWald?
i
(} 25 A Both.
e Sonntag Reporting Service, Ltd. j Ueneva, Illinois 60134 (312) 232-0262
5761 1 Q Both.
2 Now, when you -- you say you were getting further 3 behind, and this caused you to not be as careful as you 4 m,igh t.
i 5 A Yes, sir.
6 Q And the clerks brought examples to your attention, and
- 7 it might have been in either case: when you had these 8 feelings of being rushed or under normal circumstances; 4
9 is that correct?
10 A Yes, sir.
11 Q Now, what caused these feelings of being rushed?
i 12 I thought it was your testimony that Mr. DeWald
(:) 13 never jumped on you for having this work backlogged.
14 Couldn't you have taken your time if you had wanted 15 to?
16 A My impression was I wasn' t going to get any assistance.
[ 17 It was all my job to do, and there was not going to be i
18 any assistance in the next X amount of days or any time 19 pe riod.
20 0 Well, did Mr. Seese or Mr. DeWald say you had to get 21 that everfd ay work done every day without fail before 22 you went home?
23 A No. It was implied.
24 0 But isn't it a fact that your feelings of being rushed 25 were really self-induced?
(])
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V 1 A Yes.
2 JUDGE GROSSMAN : Was that because you saw the 3 work piling up and were worried that sooner or later 4 something would catch up with you?
5 THE WITNESS: Yes, si r. At a future time 6 period, unbeknown to me, he might come down and just 7 chew me out for being so far behind.
8 BY MR. GALLO:
9 0 Did he ever do that?
10 A No.
11 0 We're talking about Mr. DeWald.
12 A Yes, sir.
O 13 0 All right.
14 Did Mr. Seese ever do that?
15 A No, sir.
16 0 Now, was this the DeWald behavior you complained about
-17 when you went to the NRC on March 29, 1985?
18 A Yes, sir.
19 0 Do you recall that there were two meetings that day 20 between the inspectors and the NRC resident inspectors?
21 A No, sir.
22 I only attended one. I think it was in the 23 afternoon.
24 0 You went to the af ternoon -- there was a meeting in the 25 afternoon.
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V 1 You went to that?
2 A I believe -- yes. We went right over there af ter lunch.
3 Q You attendeo that meeting?
4 A Yes, sir.
5 MR. GALLO: Judge Grossman, at this time I'm 6 going to s ask a number of questions f rom the in-camera 7 exhibi t, Intervenors' 42-A.
8 I suppose, if you please, you might want to give 9 the Reporter instructions with respect to this part of 10 the transcript.
11 JUDGE GROSSMAN: Right. Okay. I think the 12 Reporter is f amiliar with that.
O 13 We'll probably have some names mentioned that are 14 confidential, and so we'll have to correct the 15 transcript or conf orm it to the practice that we've 16 adopted here, so you're on notice of that, Miss 17 Reporter.
18 BY MR. GALLO:
19 0 Mr. Gorman, I show you what has been introduced and 20 marked for identification as Intervenors' 42-A.
21 MR. GUILD: Excuse me. I want to make 22 certain that all those present in the room are presently 23 signatories of the nondisclosure.
24 JUDGE GROSSMAN : I believe that's the case, 25 Mr. Guild.
(]}
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v 1 MR. GUILD: Thank you, Mr. Chai rman.
2 BY MR. GALLO:
3 0 It's a letter dated April 5, 1985 -- or, actually, a 4 memorandum written f rom a f ellow by the name of Weil, N
5 W- E-I- L , f rom the NRC, to his director.
6 I'll show it to you and ask you if you've ever seen 7 it before.
8 (Indicating.)
9 Take your time. It's three pages.
10 You don' t have to read it in its entirety. I'll 11 point to a specific question.
12 My question right now is whether you've ever seen 13 it before.
14 A I don't believe I've ever seen it, no.
15 MR. GUILD: Mr. Gallo, he might not recognize 16 it with the brackets around it. That's not the form he 17 got it in.
18 MR. GALLO: Okay.
19 BY MR. GALLO:
20 0 counsel for the Intervenors has been kind enough to 21 point out that perhaps you might have seen it in a form 22 that did not include the brackets around the names.
23 THE WITNESS: Can I look it over, please?
24 MR. GALLO: Sure, sure. I didn't mean to
(} 25 rush you before. Take your time. I didn't mean to rush Sonntag Reporting Service, Ltd.
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1 you before.
2 Perhaps maybe a short recess would --
3 JUDGE GROSSMAN : That's why I was going to 4 suggest it. I didn' t .want to interrupt your 5 questioning, though. Let's take ten minutes now.
6 (WHEREU PON , a recess was had, after which 7 the proceedings were resumed as follows:)
8 JUDGE GROSSMAN: Okay. We're back in 9 se ssion.
10 Mr. Gallo, would you continue, please?
11 MR. GALLO: Thank you, your Honor.
12 BY MR. GALLO:
O 13 Q Did you have occasion during the recess, Mr. Gorman, to 14 look at Exhibit 42-A?
15 A Yes.
16 Q Do you recognize it now af ter having more time to look 17 at it?
18 A Yes, I do believe I recall seeing it, reading it.
19 Q Do you remember the circumstances through which you 20 received the document?
21 A I think I received it f rom the BPI group.
22 0 And when you saw the document, do you recall whether or 23 not it had brackets around these names?
24 (Indica ting. )
(} 25 A I don' t think it -- no, I don't think it did. I'm i Sonntag Reporting Service, Ltd.
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1 pretty sure it didn't.
2 0 Do you recall whether the names were in any way blocked 3 out or was the document unaltered?
4 A It was unaltered, I believe.
5 MR. GUILD: If I could ask for -- if I could 6 consult with counsel for one moment before he continues 7 his examination --
8 JUDGE GROSSMAN: Sure.
9 Off the record.
10 (There followed a discussion outside the 11 record.)
12 JUDGE GROSSMAN: Back on the record.
O 13 MR. GUILD: Mr. Chai rman, for the record, BPI 14 sent copies to counsel and the others that had all the 15 names blacked out and simply informed the addressee that 16 his name was among the names that had been blocked out, 17 without identifying in particular which one it was or 18 what the other names were contained in the document.
19 If counsel doesn't mind, it's my belief that the 1
20 NRC originally sent all of the inspectors, including Mr.
21 Gorman, the document with the names included in the 22 text.
23 JUDGE GROSSMAN: Okay. That's fine.
24 You don't have any reason to doubt that was said,
(} 25 do you?
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O 1 THE WITNESS: No.
2 I received that letter f rom the NRC, I received 3 memos f rom you and letters, and I also received them 4 from the NRC; one or the other, okay.
5 I do recall one copy was blacked out and the other 6 one did have the names, and I can't distinguish which 7 one I received.
8 JUDGE GROSSMAN : That's fine.
9 BY MR. GALLO:
, 10 0 Is it your understanding -- and if you need your 11 understanding refreshed, just say so -- that what this 12 document does is to report to Mr. Norelius the excerpts O 13 of the QC Inspectors' discussions with the NRC residents 14 that occurred in the afternoon meeting on March 29th?
15 Is that your understanding?
16 A Yes, si r.
17 0 Okay.
18 If we turn to Page 3 of that memorandum, your name 19 appears near the bottom of the page, does it not?
I 20 A Yes.
21 Q And it indicates that Saklak -- strike that.
l 22 One of the things that appears -- the first l.
23 sentence that appears af ter your name is that, "Saklak l 24 berates inspectors."
25 Did you tell that to the NRC resident inspectors?
[}
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5768 1 Is that a fair characterization of your discussion 2 with them?
3 A I don't specifically remember what I did say. I know I 4 did say the last part of it.
5 I don' t remember saying that the -- the part about 6 Saklak. I possibly could have.
7 Q You don't remember at this time? ;
8 A No, I don't.
9 Q Let's go to the next sentence that appears in the 10 letter: "Many inspectors have been discriminated 11 against at one time or another by Irv DeWald, Comstock 12 QA Manager."
( 13 Do you recall saying that to the NRC resident 14 inspectors?
15 A I think I did, yes.
16 Q "DeWald's attitude," it goes on to say, "is," quote, 17 " 'How can I hang you, ' not, 'How can I help you? '"
18 Do you recall saying that?
19 A Yes.
20 0 Now, when you made this statement to the NRC inspectors 21 that DeWald had discriminated against many inspectors at 22 one time or another, did you include yourself in that l 23 category?
24 A I can't really recall what my reasoning was that day I l
25 said that. That's been a long period of time, and I
(]}
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I Geneva, Illinois 60134 (312) 232-0262
5769 1 don't really recall what my thoughts were at that time 2 when I said that.
3 Q Let me ask you again.
4 This sentence uses the words " discriminated 5 against."
6 It's not " intimidate" or " harass"; it's just --
7 A I'm not even sure I used the word " discriminated. " I 8 can't recall if I used that word or " intimidated. "
9 0 You don't recall at this time?
10 A No.
11 Q Do you recall what other inspectors you had in mind when
! 12 you made the statement?
O 13 A Not at this time I don't recall. I can' t remember.
14 Q But you recall making the statement to the NRC resident 15 inspectors?
16 A Yes.
17 But 3tke I said, I'm not sure if I used 18 "discrimAnated" or " intimidated. " I don' t remember 19 using that specific word.
20 0 All right.
21 Did you have perhaps some of the other inspectors 22 that had worked in the vault in mind when you made this 23 statement?
24 A I don't -- at that time there were no other inspectors
(} 25 in the vault. I was the only inspector per se.
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() !
- 1 Q This is March 29, 1985, we' re talking about now.
2 A I don't remember. I can't recall the exact date that
< 3 they did assign another inspector to the vault.
4 We had an individual in there, a young lady, who 5 was training in the field to become a Level I inspector; i
6 and they assigned Mr. Connors at a specific time.
7 I don't remember when this all took place. I can't
- 8 remember the specific dates.
9 0 Was it prior to -- to your knowledge, prior to March 29, 10 198S?
11 A I don' t remember. I really can't recall.
12 Q Do you recall any incident where Mr. DeWald O 13 discriminated against the young lady that was assigned 14 to the vault or the other gentleman you've just it mentioned?
16 A I can't recall. I don't remember.
17 Q How about if I changed the question to " intimidate"?
7 18 Do you recall any instance where Mr. DeWald 19 intimidated either the young lady or the gentleman whose 20 name you just mentioned?
21 A Not that I know of.
l 22 Q For the record, who was the gentleman that you've 23 referred to?
24 A Mr. Kevin Connors.
(} 25 0 Kevin Connors?
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1 A Yes.
2 Q All right.
3 Well, when you made this statement to the NRC 4 resident inspectors that many inspectors have been 5 discriminated or perhaps intimidated against by Mr.
6 DeWald, did you have any of the inspectors in mind that 7 did the Level II inspections out in the field?
8 A I think that's what I was basically talking about, was 9 that all the inspectors per se -- not the clerks or 10 anything, but a lot of the inspectors I f elt were being 11 intimidated by Mr. DeWald.
12 Q Do you remember -- did any particular inspector ever O 13 tell you that, that you can recall?
14 A No, I can't remember, 15 Q Do you think they may have told you that?
l 16 A I don ' t rem ember . I don't recall.
17 0 Was this a judgment that you just perhaps formed on your 18 own, based on your own experience?
19 A From my observations, yes, possibly.
l 20 Q From attending these mass meetings --
21 A Yes.
22 0 -- where instead of dealing one-on-one, he just 23 attributed the things he thought were going wrong to 24 everyone ?
l 25 A Yes.
l (]}
l l
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5772 O) q 1 Q Now, do you recall saying that, "DeWald's attitude is, 2 'How'" -- quote, "'How can I hang you, ' not, 'How can I 3 help you? '"
4 Do you recall saying that to the residents?
5 A Yes, something similar to that.
6 I'm not sure that that's the exact words that I 7 used at that time. I don't remember.
8 0 That's a pretty colloquial statement; it's a pretty 9 unique statement; would you agree?
10 A Uh-huh.
11 Q Let me ask you again whether you think you made a
- 12 statement along those lines or not.
13 A Yes, I did.
14 0 What did you mean by it?
15 A Well, he was constantly trying to pick at individuals 16 for different things. He was always trying to find ways 17 to get rid of individuals, it seemed, in my impression.
18 Certain individuals he didn't care for, he didn't 19 like, so he'd constantly watch them.
20 Q Do you have any individuals in mind that you're aware i 21 that Mr. DeWald was trying to get rid of?
22 A I can't really say, no; just --
23 , O This was just a feeling you had?
l 24 A Yes, i
(} 25 O Do you think Mr. DeWald liked you?
l l
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(V 1 A I really don't know. His disposition was such that you 2 never knew if the guy liked you or not.
3 Q Did you develop any impression yourself as to whether or 4 not he liked you?
5 A Sometimes I thought he did. It all depended on what his 6 mood was. He was a very moody person.
7 0 Were there tir.es that you thought he didn't like you?
8 A Oh, yeah, sure.
9 0 Did he ever make a move to get rid of you?
10 A I don't know. He may have at some time.
11 Q But --
12 A Not directly -- not directly to me.
O 13 0 To your knowledge?
14 A No.
15 0 All right.
16 Mr. Gorman, do you recall telling the NRC resident 17 inspectors on the 29th of March that you thought 18 Comstock was lacking in management ability?
19 A Yes, sir.
20 Q Do you recall telling them that you thought Comstock's 21 management lacked leadership?
22 A Yes, sir.
23 0 Who did you have in mind when you made that statement?
24 A Mr. DeWald.
(} 25 Q Did you have Mr. Seese in mind?
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1 A No, si r.
2 0 Mr. Seltmann?
3 A No, sir.
4 Q Mr. Marino?
5 A Mr. Marino I didn't think was directly involved in 6 management on-site.
7 0 So it was just Mr. DeWald?
8 A Yes, sir.
9 JUDGE GROSSMAN: Mr. Gallo, can I make sure 10 that everyone in the courtroom now has signed the 11 protective agreement?
12 MR. MILLER: That gentleman has not.
O 13 JUDGE GROSSMAN : NRC or -- I don't recognize 14 you.
l 15 MR. DEMOS: I had asked, when I came in, if l
16 we were in camera.
17 MR. SMITH: We weren' t at that point.
18 MR. GALLO: I don' t think, Judge Grossman, l
19 that I'm going to pursue this line much longer, so the 20 gentleman can come back in when --
21 JUDGE GROSSMAN : Okay, sure.
l-22 It's just that there are some names that are 23 confidential, and we want to make sure that they remain 24 so.
(} 25 MR. GALLO: May I have a moment?
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1 JUDGE GROSSMAN : Sure.
2 MR. GALLO: In fact, Judge Grossman, I'm 3 going to change the line; so if that gentleman wants to 4 come in, it's -- it's perf ectly acceptable.
5 JUDGE GROSSMAN: Mr. Smith, we're not --
6 we've been inf ormed by Mr. Gallo that nothing now is 7 going to be confidential, and so that gentleman can 8 return.
9 MR. SMITH: Thank you, sir.
10 BY MR. GALLO:
11 Q Let's turn, Mr. Gorman, to these mass meetings that you 12 described.
13 A Yes, si r.
14 0 I think you pointed out that certainly one purpose of 15 the meetings was to provide Mr. DeWald the opportunity 16 to point out the shortcomings that he perceived among 17 one or more inspectors; that's true, isn' t it?
18 A Yes, sir.
19 Q Do you know whether or not there were other purposes to l
20 these mass meetings?
21 A To convey information to the inspectors that they may or 22 may not need know, pertaining to their work in the 23 field, or announcements of some type or whatever he l
l l 24 thought was valuable to the inspectors to know.
I 25 Q Did he ever at these meetings, to your knowledge -- I'm
{~ }
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1 talking about Mr. DeWald -- complain that not enough 2 inspections were being performed by the inspectors?
3 A Yes, si r.
4 0 can you recall the circumstance when he did that, what 5 he said?
6 A I can recall vaguely, in my own words, that there was 7 instances where he said that too many people were 8 sitting in the office and that he didn't want people 9 sitting in the office; that they needed to be out in the 10 field performing more inspections; not enough work was 11 being accomplished.
12 That's my own words f rom what I --
13 0 I understand, I understand.
14 When you say that he indicated that too many people 15 were sitting in the office, did you understand that to 16 mean that too many QC Inspectors were sitting in the 17 office?
18 A Yes, sir.
j 19 0 What office are you referring to?
20 A The upstairs office where the inspectors were assigned i
21 to sit at specific desks.
22 0 What was the -- are you aware of what work might be 23 performed by inspectors in that office?
24 A Mainly research would be performed in the office on 25 prints.
(~}
I Sonntag Reporting Service, Ltd.
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5777 1 Q All right.
2 A Getting your inf ormation that you needed to go out and 3 perform an inspection.
4 0 Did Mr. DeWald ever complain that inspectors were 5 loafing in that office?
6 A Yes.
7 0 He did?
8 You recall him saying that or indicating words to 9 that effect?
10 A Yes, yes.
11 I don' t specifically remember the word " loafing,"
12 but the impression came across that too many people were 7.-
~#
13 sitting in the office.
14 Q And not doing work?
15 A Right.
16 Q Did you ever develop an impression in that direction?
17 A Impression in what direction, are you saying?
l 18 0 Let me rephrase the question.
19 Did you ever develop an understanding that some of 20 the QC Inspectors were -- and I'll use the word now --
l 21 loafing up in the workroom -- up in the office?
22 A My main area was assigned down at the vault, and I very 23 seldom ever went upstairs.
24 On occasion I'd go up to talk to Mr. Seese or an 1
l
(} 25 inspector that I needed to make a correction on a Sonntag Reporting Service, Ltd.
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1 document or whatever or address a specific issue and to 2 explain it to me so that I understood it a little 3 better, because I didn't quite have the understanding.
4 I --
5 0 Well -- go ahead.
6 A I didn't go up and make specific observations of 7 individuals loafing in the office.
8 0 Well, when you made these trips for the purposes you 9 indicated, did you have occasion to see anybody loafing?
10 A Possibly, yes.
11 I don' t -- I really don' t -- I don' t know if I'd i 12 say I made that observation.
( 13 People sitting around, yes. Whether they were 14 loafing or working or sitting back -- we had flexible 15 time at that time. We could drink coffee at our desks, 16 kind of sit back and relax a minute -- I take that back; 17 not "we." I was not an inspector in that area at that 18 time.
19 The inspectors in the area were kind of flexible on 20 what they did.
21 How you interpret " loafing" is an individual's 22 observation.
23 0 Well, I'm talking about your observation.
24 Do you recall observing such --
(} 25 A Like I said, I was just up and down through there, and I Sonntag Reporting Service, Ltd.
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1 really didn't make observations of people loafing. That 2 was not really what I was up there for. l 1
3 I'm possible -- I'm sure some of my observations l 4 could have been, yeah, some guy was loafing; but I 5 really didn't have that knowledge of whether he was 6 loafing or not.
7 I don't know what he was doing. I never asked him.
8 It wasn't my job to ask an individual if he was working 9 or loafing.
10 I wasn't a particular part of management, so again 11 I didn' t draw those conclusions of inspections --
12 inspectors.
13 0 Would you agree that it was proper for management to 14 determine whether or not these inspectors might be 15 loafing?
16 A I believe, yeah, as management personnel, it was their 17 -- their job to make sure the work got done.
18 Q What about in the vault?
19 Did you ever have occasion to witness any loafing
(
20 going on in the vault among the clerks and other 21 workers?
I 22 A Yes, sir.
23 Q Did you have occasion to loaf yourself?
24 A Yes, sir.
(} 25 Q Did Mr. Seese or Mr. DeWald ever become aware of this l
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, O 1 loafing on your part, to your knowledge?
2 A I don' t recall.
3 Q Did they ever reprimand you for loafing on the job?
4 A Oh, they might have said something to me about it; that 5 I wasn ' t -- well, I can' t remember. I take that back.
6 Q All right. Let me divide the question up.
7 First of all, did Mr. Seese ever reprimand you with 8 respect to loafing on the job?
9 A I don't recall any instance, no.
10 Q How about Mr. DeWald?
11 Did he ever reprimand you with respect to his 12 notion that you were loafing on the job?
O 13 A Not directly.
14 Maybe he would say certain words that would give me 15 the impression that he thought I wasn't performing the 16 best I could as far as getting the work done.
17 Q But do you understand that to be the same as being 18 reprimanded for loafing?
I 19 A Well, when you say " reprimanded," are you talking about 20 a specific write-up that he addressed me with?
21 Q Either in writing or verbally reprimanded you --
22 A No.
23 Q -- for whatever --
24 A No, I can't recall any such issue.
() 25 Q But you do recall on occasion having loaf ed on the job?
Sonntag Reporting Service, Ltd.
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1 A Oh, yes.
2 0 And to the extent that you were loafing on the job, were 3 you getting further behind in your workload?
4 A Possibly; more than likely, yes.
5 It all -- let me define this. Let me say what's 6 " loafing, " okay? I'll go back to the same situation 7 where we were flexible and able to sit back and have a 8 cup of coffee.
9 You can determine that as being " loafing," or you 10 can sit in the office for a period of time, three hours, 11 and consider that " loafing. "
12 My impression of loafing is yeah, I'm sitting back, O 13 drinking a cup of coffee for a few minutes or talking to 14 someone to kind of relax f or a minute.
15 It all depends how you want to define " loafing."
16 0 All right.
17 A The person that defines " loafing" -- if you' re loafing 18 for three hours in the office, that's different.
19 If you're sitting back, drinking a cup of coffee 20 and taking more than a ten-minute break, yeah, I've 21 loafed.
22 0 Let me see if I understand your testimony.
23 When I asked you whether or not you were ever --
24 whether you ever loafed on the job, I didn' t intend to l (~T 25 include the coffee-break situation or the casual
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1 conv er sa tion.
2 I was thinking more of a situation where you simply 3 spent time not doing yeur work but doing something else 4 for a period longer tL.in ten minutes.
5 Did you ever loaf, based on that kind of a 6 definition?
7 A Yeah.
=
8 0 All right.
9 During these meetings, these mass meetings that Mr.
10 DeWald chaired -- or I guess he held.
11 He was in ch-arge of the meeting; right?
12 A Yes, sir.
O 13 Q You indicated that he urged the inspectors to do more 14 ins pections.
15 Do you recall him ever establishing a quota or a 16 norm of inspections that he expected to be complet'ed in i 17 a day?
l l 18 A Not that I can recall, no.
19 Q Does eight or ten inspections jog your memory on that?
20 Do you recall him ever saying that he expected l
21 people to complete eight or ten inspections a day?
22 A I don't recall those specific numbers, no.
23 Q Do you recall any numbers?
24 A No, sir.
l
{} 25 Q Do you recall Mr. DeWald ever complaining to the l
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1 inspectors about a lack of quality in their inspections 2 and that they might have -- they would have to improve 3 their perf ormance?
4 A No, sir.
5 0 You don't recall that?
6 A Uh-uh.
7 Q N ow , Mr. Gorman, I take it sometime af ter early '84 or 8 mid '84, you lef t the vault and then became a Level II 9 QC Inspector in the field; is that correct?
10 A No.
11 I went out and trained to become a Level II 12 Inspector, and then I was assigned back to the vault as 13' the Lead.
- 14 Q As the Lead?
15 A Yes. I was in the vault for approximately a year as the 16 Lead.
17 Q And do you remember approximately when you lef t that 18 position?
19 A I believe it was February of '85.
20 Q February of '85.
21 Well, let me digress for a minute.
22 Then in your earlier testimony, would it be -- you 23 may have said something different in your earlier 24 testimony, and I want to clarify that.
(} 25 Would it be f air to say that you worked in the Sonntag Reporting Service, Ltd.
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w
)
1 vault generally -- perhaps sometimes you didn't when you 2 were trained and that sort of thing, but you worked generally from October of ' 83 until February of '857 3
4 A Yes, sir.
5 0 All right.
6 Now, what were your inspection duties af ter you i
7 lef t the vault in February of '857 8 A I was assigned to the field to do conduit inspections.
9 0 Again, what was the -- can you describe for me the work 10 environment within which you did these inspections at 11 that time?
12 A Can you elaborate on that?
O 13 0 Sure.
14 A What do you mean, " work inspections," " work 15 environment"?
16 0 Yes. I agree. It's a vague question. Let me see if I 17 can sharpen it.
18 At the time in February and March of '85, did you 19 have the f reedom and the flexibility to conduct thorough 20 inspections?
21 A Yes.
22 O And did that situation maintain up to the present time?
23 A Up until now?
24 0 Yes.
{} 25 A Yes, sir.
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O 1 Q Were you able to conduct research of the documentation 2 whenever you thought it was necessary?
3 A Yes, sir.
4 0 And during any of this time, did you ever -- I'm talking 5 about f rom February of ' 85 to the present -- did you 6 ever knowingly compromise the quality of your 7 inspections?
8 A No, sir.
9 0 Did you ever knowingly overlook a defect that you knew 10 was a def ect but you didn't mark it on the checklist?
11 A No, si r.
12 Q Did you -- do you think perhaps that you may have 13 overlooked something because you were feeling nervous, 14 similar to the way you described your feelings when you 15 worked in the vault?
16 A Up until this time?
17 0 From about February of '85 to the present.
18 A I don't recall. I don' t -- I didn' t feel the pressure 19 of doing an inspection like I was -- it was in the 20 vaul t.
21 It wasn' t as demanding. There was no amount of l 22 inspections that we had to do per day to accomplish our 23 work.
24 It was very free; and if you got ten done a day, 1
25 that's fine. If you had problems and you had to l (]}
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1 research one, it was fine.
2 There was no specific time limit put on how much 3 work I had to do in the field.
4 0 So your inspection activity from about February, '85, to 5 the present -- it was less demanding than your work in 6 the vault; is that correct?
7 A My feeling, yes.
8 0 There was less pressure?
9 A Yes, si r.
10 0 And you felt you were able to conduct your inspection 11 activity reasonably carefully; is that correct?
12 A Yes, sir.
13 0 Now, you had indicated in the prior testimony -- in your 14 prior testimony that you may have, because of the 15 pressure or your feeling of nervousness, overlooked 16 matters in conducting your document review.
17 Do you recall that testimony?
18 A Yes, sir.
19 Q Now, wasn't it a f act that during this period of time, 20 you were calling to Mr. DeWald's attention problems with 21 the documents that you were reviewing?
22 A Yes, sir.
23 0 And what were those problems, just generally?
l 24 A The problems seemed to be that some of the paperwork was 25 not sufficient enough to stand on its own as to what was
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1 in the field.
2 0 And what time f rame are we talking about?
3 A I don't remember.
4 0 Well, let's see if I can be helpf ul to you.
5 You started the vault -- working in the vault in 6 October of 1983, you became the Lead in the spring or 7 summer of '84, and you lef t the vault in February or so 8 of 1985.
9 A Yes, sir.
10 Q Now, when -- when did you first encounter these document 11 problems that you've testified to?
s 12 A Well, when I was first assigned to the vault as a doc 13 reviewer, we were having a specific program to go 14 through and review documentation to make sure that it 15 was acceptable and would stand on its own as a primary 16 inspection of what was in the plant itself.
17 There were occasions where specific things were 18 pointed out to Mr. DeWald that did not stand on its own.
19 0 And did you do the pointing-out to Mr. DeWald?
20 A On a -- on a specific occasion that I do recall, yes.
21 Q All right.
22 N ow , to your knowledge, what corrective action, if 23 any, was taken with respect to the shortcomings in the 24 documentation that you've just described?
(} 25 A At that time we specifically addressed the issues which l
Sonntag Reporting Service, Ltd.
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O 1 we called the Phase 1 part of the program. We wrote up 2 the deficiencies on a separate paper.
3 Then it went into -- at a later date after 4 everything was reviewed, it was to go into a Phase 2 5 program, where certified inspectors would make 6 corrections on the papers or address issues that were 7 wrong or reinspect specific problems that were 8 identified as needing reinspection because the paperwork 9 would not stand on its own.
10 0 If I understand your testimony, during Phase 1 of this 11 document review program, the deficiencies were 12 identified and noted; is that correct?
13 A Yes.
14 Q Was it done on NCR's --
15 A No.
16 0 -- or some other document?
17 A There was a specific document that we used. I can't 18 recall what it was. It was an attachment that we put 19 with the paperwork.
l 20 0 But it was -- the deficiencies were documented; is that 21 correct?
22 A Yes.
23 0 And then during Phase 2, corrective action was taken
- 24 with respect to those identified deficiencies; is that 25 your testimony?
(]}
1 l
Sonntag Reporting Service, Ltd.
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j 5789 1 A Yes, by certified inspectors that would look over the 2 checklist themselves and identify the problems that were 3 identified by the individuals doing the review or other 4 things that they may pick up, as a certified inspector, 5 that we did not.
6 0 Now, at the time that you were feeling this pressure 7 because you were falling behind in your work and you 8 thought you might have made mistakes and were less 9 careful, was.. that during Phase 1 of the doc review 10 program?
11 A Eo.
12 0 When was that?
i
- 13 A Basically what I was doing was -- it was later on. I 14 can't recall specific dates. It might have been late in 15 '84, the fall of '84, or over a period of time whenever 16 he gave me an assignment to do.
l 17 I didn't only review Phase 1 or Phase 2. I was 18 involved with every document that went into the vault.
i 19 0 I understand.
20 And when was Phase 2 of this document review l
21 program initiated, do you recall?
22 A No, si r.
23
=
0 Was it in '85?
! 24 A It was initiated at the time I was in the vault, because
(} 25 I do specifically remember that I did review a lot of Sonntag Reporting Service, Ltd.
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1 Phase 2 work.
2 As Lead in the vault, I was giving direction to 3 make sure that all corrections were made properly and 4 sign off the memos saying yes, they did address the 5 issues.
6 Q Were other people working on this Phase 2 document 7 review program as well, besides yourself?
8 A In what way; as an inspector, certified inspector --
9 Q Yes.
10 A -- reviewing?
11 Q Yes.
12 A Yes.
O 13 0 Yes?
14 A Yes. '
15 Q Do you recall how many people there were?
16 A There was several. I don't recall how many.
17 There were two different programs set up. The 18 first one was a Phase 1-Phase 2 type of situation.
19 Af ter a period of time, it was addressed that the 20 program was not properly completed.
21 There was a decision made -- and I'm not really 22 absolutely positive who made it, whether it was with 23 Comstock or Commonwealth Edison -- they made a decision 24 to go back and completely do it all over again.
After several issues had been addressed with
(} 25 Sonntag Reporting Service, Ltd.
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5791 1 quality problems, the paperwork not standing on its own, 2 a decision was made to go back and completely review 3 every document that was in the vault again.
4 This was af ter I had lef t the vault.
5 0 This was done af ter you had lef t the vault?
6 A Yes.
7 Q And so this review would have included any documents 8 that you had reviewed initially but when you were 9 working in the vault --
10 A Ye s, si r.
11 0 -- is that correct?
12 Then you --
13 A The only thing that I --
14 0 Let me finish my question.
2 15 I think it was your testimony that Commonwealth 16 Edison had ordered or directed that all the documents in l 17 the vault be reviewed again; is that correct?
18 A I believe so.
19 Q And it was done af ter you had lef t the vault?
20 A Yes, si r.
21 Q All right.
22 So the review must have occurred af ter that time?
23 A Yes, si r.
24 Q And would that have included the documents that you 25 yourself reviewed in the first instance when you worked
(])
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1 i in the vault?
l 2 A Yes, sir.
3 0 So to the extent that any mistakes were made by you 4 because of the pressure or other nervous feelings that 5 you were experiencing, this review may have caught 6 them --
7 A Yes, sir.
8 0 -- is that correct?
, 9 A Can I explain something quickly?
10 0 Sure. Go ahead.
11 A When you' re talking review of the documents, my basic 12 job as reviewer was to make sure all appropriate areas 13 were addressed.
14 In other words, if it was to have a checkmark in 15 that box, if it was to have N/A, if it was to have a 16 specific rev -- all areas were addressed on that 17 checklist. That was my document review.
18 I made no corrections in any other capacity. If I 19 found a problem, I would go directly to the inspector 20 that did the inspection and address him and say, " Hey, 21 is this right," or, "Should you change this," or, "Would 22 you change it," or something like that.
23 My specific assignment was to make sure the 24 checklist was complete in all areas.
(} 25 0 And when you said -- testified earlier that you may have Sonntag Reporting Service, Ltd.
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U 1 made mistakes in that document review, what kind of 2 mistakes did you have in mind?
3 A Possibly overlook a date not being proper or a line-out 4 and it not being -- a write-over not being lined out and 5 initialed and dated; something along these lines.
6 Q And were those the kinds of deficiencies that the latter 7 program was addressed to try to uncover; that is, the 8 one --
9 A Along with other specific items.
10 Again, I wasn't involved with the program at a 11 later date, so I can' t specifically say what items they 12 were addressing.
13 The program we set up before was to make sure that 14 the checklist was complete; that it was inspected and I 15 properly addressed as being that hanger hanging in the 16 -- in the plant or whatever it may be, whatever item, a 17 junction box, a cable properly pulled or whatever.
18 0 Well, wasn't it your understanding that the program that l
19 was initiated by Comstock, after you left the vault, 20 with respect to the document review was for the purpose l 21 of searching for and correcting errors in the 1
22 documentation?
23 A To some extent, yes; to also review and make sure the 24 correct rev was used for the inspection.
25 0 All right.
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1 A Again, this was done as a certified inspector. I was 2 put back into the area af ter the document review had 3 been completed by individuals, 4 It was our job to research and make sure the 5 correct data was on the checklist; that it would stand 6 on its own for an inspection.
7 They identified specific problems that an inspector 8 was not certified or whatever.
9 MR. GALLO: May I have a moment?
10 JUDGE GROSSMAN : Sure.
11 BY MR. GALLO:
, 12 0 When you had indicated to me, Mr. Gorman, that on 13 occasion you went to other inspectors with respect to 14 questions you had on the documents you were reviewing --
15 A Yes.
16 0 -- did the procedure specifically permit that activity 17 and encourage it, require it?
18 A What's that?
19 Q The procedures that you were working against for your 20 document review process.
21 A 4131, I believe it was, for the document review?
22 0 Yes.
23 A I don't really recall at this time.
24 Like I say, I've been out of there for almost two
(} 25 years. I can't remember what the -- I may have been Sonntag Reporting Service, Ltd.
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1 given verbal permission by Mr. Seese or Mr. DeWald to go 2 to the inspector to have it corrected at that time.
3 0 You don't recall whether the procedure specifically 4 directed that activity?
5 A N o, sir, I don't remember.
6 Q Let's return to March 29, 1985, and the meeting with the 7 NRC resident inspectors.
8 JUDGE GROSSMAN: Excuse me, Mr. Gallo.
9 Are we now going to be talking about confidential 10 names?
11 MR. GALLO: No.
12 JUDGE GROSSMAN: Okay.
O 13 MR. GALLO: No, your Honor.
14 BY MR. GALLO:
15 Q How did you become aware that there was going to be a 16 meeting at noon on March 29th?
17 A Mr. Bossong informed me that there was going to be a 18 meeting.
19 Q Did he invite you to attend?
20 A He said it was my discretion whether I wanted to go or 21 not; there were several inspectors going over.
22 0 What did he tell you the purpose of the meeting was?
23 A Just that they were going to the NRC and talk to them 24 about specific issues.
25 I don't recall exactly what his words were why they l(~'}
l l Sonntag Reporting Service, Ltd.
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5796 ,
O 1 were going over there. It's just --
2 0 What was your -- I'm sorry. I interrupted you.
3 A It's just that if you had any problems that you wanted 4 to address to the NRC, they were all going. They were 5 just more or less letting everybody know.
6 0 when you say " problems," what kind of problems?
7 A Any thing: quality problems, problems with management; 8 any type of problem that you wanted to go over and 9 specifically point out to the NRC that could be 10 addressed.
11 0 Was it your understanding that the NRC resident i
12 inspectors were essentially a forum for general O 13 complaints?
14 A No.
15 0 Well, you had indicated in your earlier answer that one 16 of the reasons for going to the NRC was to complain 17 abcut management.
18 A Management was related to the problems with quantity 19 versus quality inspections under their direction.
20 Management was giving direction to the inspectors 21 that they wanted more quantity instead of quality, and 22 if -- as far as I'm concerned in my interpretation, 23 management was a problem.
l 24 Q Now, how did you -- what was the basis f or -- what is l
25 the basis for your judgment that at the time prior to
/}
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1 March 29, '85, Comstock management was stressing 2 quantity over quality?
3 A The general meetings.
4 Q These general meetings again --
5 A Uh-huh.
6 0 -- these mass meetings?
7 What was there about the meetings that caused you 8 to form that judgment?
9 What was said?
10 A Well, in the meetings they addressed issues that there 11 wasn' t enough work being done. They wanted people out t
12 in the field more of ten, getting out of the office.
O 13 "You' re not doing enough inspections. You're not 14 getting enough work done."
15 0 And you interpreted this as emphasizing quantity over 16 quality?
17 A Yes, sir.
18 0 What was there about working in the office that you f elt 19 would be compromised if they went out in the field and 20 did their instructions, if anything?
21 A I don't understand your question.
22 What do you mean?
23 Q All right. Let me restate it.
24 I thought your earlier testimony was that Mr.
(} 25 DeWald was encouraging these inspectors to get out of Sonntag Reporting Setvice, Ltd.
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1 the office and do their inspections.
2 Is that correct?
3 A Encouraging them?
4 0 Urging them.
5 A That's a better word, yes, sir.
.6 0 " Urging them" -- is that a f air characterization of your 7 testimony ?
8 A Demanding them to get out of the office.
9 Q Demanding them to get out of the office?
10 A Right.
11 0 Now, what was there about that direction that you felt 12 was a situation where quantity was being emphasized over O 13 quality ?
14 A Well, it's not necessarily the getting out of the 15 office.
16 It's the -- the basis of the meetings was to get 17 .out and do more inspections.
18 0 In other words, to get more work done?
19 A Yes.
20 0 Well, did you believe that that was an improper 21 prerogative of management to urge that more work be done 22 by the inspectors?
23 A It all depends on how you -- how you perceive the 24 impression f rom the individual talking.
25 You can use words in a -- in a way that they can be f')N w
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V 1 very demeaning or mandatory of making you get out and do 2 something, or you can come across in a different manner.
3 You can get more production out of a person by a 4 choice of words instead of saying -- an example, I would 5 say -- there's diff erent ways to talk to different 6 individuals.
7 0 Such as the style used by Mr. Seese?
8 A Yes.
9 0 If Mr. Seese had, in his style, been urging that more 10 inspections be perf ormed, would you have felt he was 11 emphasizing quantity over quality?
12 A I can't remember any specific issue where he addressed
( 13 that.
14 Again, like I said, it's a choice of words and your 15 observation of how the person is using those words to 16 get it f rom you.
17 Q So DeWald was authoritative, is that right, in his --
18 A Yes.
19 0 -- demands f or more inspections?
20 A The problem was he wouldn' t address specific people. He 21 was telling everybody they were lazy and lackadaisical 22 and loafing.
23 Instead of addressing the one individual one-on-one 24 and saying, "I have a problem with you," it would be the 25 whole body; and that's not a fair evaluation of other Oa Sonntag Reporting Service, Ltd.
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1 individuals.
2 An individual that's out there doing a good job 3 gets the impression then that he's -- he's screwing up; 4 he's not doing a good job.
5 0 All right.
6 So you've testified that you disagreed with that 7 management approach?
8 A Yes, sir.
9 0 Is that what led you to conclude that Mr. DeWald was 10 emphasizing quantity over quality, that management 11 approach?
12 A To some extent, yes, with the general- meetings that O 13 demanded that more work get done.
14 JUDGE GROSSMAN: Excuse me, Mr. Gorman.
15 Do you know that Mr. DeWald had particular 16 individuals in mind or was he perhaps exhorting everyone 17 to go out and do more?
18 TH E WITN ESS : I can' t specifically pinpoint 19 anyone, but why would he address -- okay.
20 No, I can't specifically pinpoint any one 21 individual.
22 JUDGE GROSSMAN : I just want to establish 23 whether you know that that's what he had in mind or --
24 THE WITNESS: My impression, being in a
(} 25 general mass meeting, was that, yeah, everybody -- if he Sonntag Reporting Service, Ltd.
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5801 1 -- that's my impression, again, as to he was saying 2 everybody was loafing instead of specifically -- he had 3 been -- I take that -- that was my interpretation of how 4 he was coming across to each individual.
5 Shoptalk would go on af ter that.
6 JUDGE GROSSMAN : Okay.
7 So what you know is that -- or what you understand 8 is that he was trying to get everyone to do more?
9 TH E WITN ESS : Yes.
10' JUDGE GROSSMAN : Okay.
11 Now, do you or do you not know, when he was saying 12 that, whether he had in mind that some individuals were O 13 doing less or are you just speculating that that's what 14 brought this about?
15 THE WITNESS: I would say speculation, yes.
16 JUDGE GROSSMAN: Okay.
17 BY MR. GALLO:
18 Q Now, when you went to the NRC on March 19th, did you 19 tell -- I'm talking about you now, Mr. Gorman -- did you i
20 tell the residents that you thought that Mr. DeWald was 21 emphasizing quantity over quality?
22 A I don't specifically remember me addressing it.
23 I think some of the other inspectors in the room 24 did.
25 0 You don' t recall doing it?
(])
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1 A I don' t remember.
1 2 O Okay.
3 Was there any other reason, besides what you've 4 indicated with respect to Mr. DeWald's behavior, that 5 caused you to go to the NRC on the 29th of March?.
6 A What do you specifically mean; the problems with what I 7 had identified in the vault as not being substantial to 8 stand on their own as 'f ar as paperwork?
9 Q No, I don't mean that.
10 Were you aware of the union activities going on at 11 that time?
12 A No. To my recollection, I don' t -- I don' t remember any i ( 13 union activities going on at that time until a later 14 date.
15 0 You don't recall that Mr. Bossong was a union organizer 16 at that time?
17 A No, sir.
18 Q Had you developed a position with respect to the union 19 at that time, whether you f avored it or --
20 A Yeah.
21 I was against it.
22 Q You were against it?
23 A Yes, si r.
24 At that time -- I shouldn' t say "at that time."
(} 25 I didn't -- when it came about at a later date and 4
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(2) 1 things started to transpire, then I was against it.
2 At that specific date, I don't even remember being 3 in contact with anyone about the union.
4 Q Did anyone suggest to you, Mr. Bossong or anyone else, 5 that at the time prior to going to the meeting at noon 6 on the 29th, that going to the NRC was one way of 7 getting even with L. K. Comstock's QC management?
8 A No, sir.
9 0 was that the reason you went?
10 A No, sir, 11 I thought there were specific problems with the 12 management and the quality of the paperwork that was in O 13 the vault.
14 0 Well, isn' t it true you didn' t like Mr. DeWald's 15 manag9 ment style?
16 A Yes, si r.
17 Q Isn't it true that you thought he lacked management 18 ability?
19 A Yes, si r.
20 0 Isn't it true that you thought he lacked leadership?
21 A Yes, sir.
22 0 Isn't it true that he passed you up f or a promotion?
23 A Not at that time, no. That happened later.
24 Q That happened af ter the 29th?
(} 25 A Yes, sir -- or wait a minute. I'm sorry. I take that Sonntag Reporting Service, Ltd.
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1 back.
2 No. That was prior to the 29th. Yes, it was.
3 0 It was prior to the time that you lef t the vault?
4 A Yes -- no. It was af ter the time I lef t the vault.
5 Q That's right.
6 So isn't it true that he had passed you over for a 7 promotion?
8 A Yes, sir.
9 0 You were hoping to become supervisor of the vault, and 10 he didn't give you that job?
11 A He had told me that I would become supervisor of the 12 vault.
0 13 0 And he didn't give you that job, did he?
14 A No, si r.
15 0 You basically just didn't like the man?
16 A Oh, I liked him. I got along well with him at the time 17 I was in the vault. I had no problems with him -- I i
18 shouldn't say, "I had no problems with him."
19 I did have problems with him. I mean, I wasn' t to 20 the point where I hated the man. I didn't specifically 21 like his management style, but I didn' t hate him.
j 22 Q All right.
23 So you didn't like his management style and he had 24 passed you over for a promotion, but you liked the man l [} 25 never theless; is that your testimony ?
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1 Isn't that the reason you went to the NRC: You 2 just wanted to get even with him?
3 A No, si r.
4 0 One last question about the meeting at the NRC:
5 Do you recall whether the complaints that were made 6 on the 29th were complaining that the actual quality of 7 the work that the QC Inspectors were doing was being 8 adversely affected?
9 Do you recall complaints to that effect?
10 A I don' t specifically remember.
11 Q Do you recall whether or not the complaints were in the 12 nature of concerns that if something wasn't done, the 13 quality may in the future become adversely affected?
14 A I don' t remember.
15 0 All right.
16 You testified that in your dealings with Mr.
17 DeWald, you were intimidated and that you were af raid of 18 him; one reason was because you thought he might fire 19 you.
l 20 Do you recall that testimony?
21 A Yes, sir.
22 0 Are you af raid that you might be fired as a result of l 23 your testimony here today?
24 A I don't know. I hope not.
f~T 25 0 But I'm asking you --
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1 A I really don't know. I can' t draw that conclusion.
2 I don't think I will, no.
3 0 Well, are you f earf ul of that eventuality as you sit 4 here right now?
5 A N o.
- 6 MR. GALLO
- That's all the questions I have.
! 7 BOARD EXAMINATION 8 BY JUDGE GROSSMAN f
9 0 When you testified that you loafed on the job, do you 10 believe that every individual loaf s at some time or 11 another?
12 A Yes, sir.
13 Q Did you consider that you loafed more than the usual j
14 amount of loafing that the average individual does?
15 A No, sir.
16 Q Going to that meeting with the NRC on March 29th, you
! 17 testified that you recall that some individuals were i
l- 18 saying that Mr. DeWald was stressing quantity over i
19 quality.
20 A Yes, si r.
i 21 Q Did you agree with that statement or those statements, 22 if more than one individual made those statements?
l 23 A Did I agree with them myself --
24 Q Yes.
() 25 A -- as f ar as -- f rom my own interpretation, yes, from Sonntag Reporting Service, Ltd.
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v 1 talking to other inspectors, from the mass meetings, 2 general mass meetings, that he was wanting more quantity 3 than quality.
4 0 Did the NRC give you an opportunity to express 5 disagreement with any statements being made?
6 A No, I don't believe so.
7 At that time? At that meeting?
8 0 Yes, at that meeting.
9 A No.
10 0 Now, returning to those Friday meetings that were had 11 with management, what was the -- do you recall what the 12 feelings were that you had and perhaps feelings
<O' 13 expressed by other QC Inspectors to you when they heard 14 that a meeting was to take place?
15 A No, I don't remember or recall any specific 16 conversations with any inspectors.
17 They were just mainly a general meeting every i
l 18 Friday.
l 19 0 Okay.
l 20 What I'm trying to get at is: Was there any 21 feeling of apprehension or were the meetings just taken 22 as a matter of course?
23 A Yes, just a matter of course.
24 JUDGE GROSSMAN : Okay.
(} 25 Mr. Cassel?
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V 1 MR. CASSEL : Thank you, Judge, 2 Mr. Gorman, are you doing okay?
3 Do you need a break?
4 TH E WITN ESS : No. I'm fine.
5 CROSS EXAMINATION 4
7 Q At the March 29th meeting with the NRC, do you recall 8 one of the NRC people asking for a show of hands as to 9 whether people agreed with statements that quality --
10 quantity was being emphasized over quality, at the 11 particular meeting you attended?
12 A I don' t remember.
) 13 MR. CASS EL : I'm about to ask about the 14 in-camera document here. I'll try to keep my questions 15 on that limited, sir.
17 Q Mr. Gorman, I'm showing you again a copy of the document 18 that Mr. Gallo showed you earlict, the April 5th memo.
19 On Page 3, next to the name of Mr. Herschel Stout, 20 the memo indicates, " Inspector productivity overrides 21 the quality of the inspection. "
22 Then there's a parenthetical note, apparently f rom 23 the author of the document, sta ting, "(At that point a 24 show of hands was done. The resident inspectors 25 indicated that the Comstock inspectors agreed 100 i
(]}
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5809 V'O 1 percent with that statement)," unquote -- or end of 2 pa r enth ese s.
3 Does that refresh your recollection as to whether 4 there was a show of hands taken at the meeting that you 5 attended?
6 A I really can't recall. I can' t remember.
7 0 Is it possible that that happened and you just don't 8 recall?
9 A Yes, it is possible.
10 I just can't recall what transpired at the meeting.
11 0 Thank you.
12 At the meeting with the NRC on the 29th, did you 13 feel free to -- if you disagreed with anything you heard 14 being said, did you feel free to speak up and tell the 15 NRC that you disagreed with it?
16 A Yes.
17 0 And did you, in fact, indicate to the NRC that you 18 disagreed with anything that was said at the meeting?
19 A I don' t believe so, no.
20 JUDGE GROSSMAN : Excuse me.
21 Do you recall anything being said with which you 22 actually disagreed at that meeting?
23 TH E WITN ESS : I don' t -- again, af ter -- we 24 read the memo and the day -- it was a year or so ago;
(} 25 and I can't really recall what actually transpired as Sonntag Reporting Service, Ltd.
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a 1 far as who said what without reading the memo again and 2 specifically -- no.
3 MS. CH AN : Excuse me. Could I have Mr.
4 Cassel's question read back?
5 I did not hear --
6 JUDGE GROSSMAN: Miss Reporter, please?
7 MS. CH AN : -- the earlier question.
8 (The record was thereupon read by the 9 Reporter.)
10 MS. CH AN : Thank you.
11 BY MR. CASSEL:
12 Q Now, Mr. Guild -- excuse me; Mr. Gallo asked you about
( 13 whether Mr. Seltmann or Mr. Seese harassed or 14 intimidated you.
15 You did not report, did you, to Mr. Sel tmann?
16 A No, sir. He was QA Manager.
I 17 0 And you and the other QC Inspectors reported to the QC 18 Manager through your chain of command; is that correct?
19 A Yes, sir.
20 0 And you indicated that for a time, you reported directly 21 to Mr. Seese and he did not harass or intimidate you; is 22 that correct?
l i 23 A No, sir.
24 0 Is it the case that most QC Inspectors for Comstock
() 25 reported not to Mr. Seese but, rather, to Mr. Saklak or l
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1 other supervisors for the field inspectors?
2 A Yes, si r.
3 0 You also testified that, as I recall -- and whenever I 4 make a statement like that, if I misstate it, please 5 correct me.
6 As I recall, you also testified to the effect that 7 once you went into the field and lef t the document room, 8 beginning at about February of 1985, from that point on, 9 you did not recall being pressured and having -- and 10 getting nervous and having that effect on the care with 11 which you did your work; is that correct?
12 A Yes.
O 13 Q How long were you in the field all together before you 14 went back to document review responsibilities, if you 15 recall?
16 A (No response.)
17 Q Let's see.
18 Do you recall approximately when you went back 19 to --
20 A I think I went back into document review to do the 21 document review again in November of '85.
22 Q So you were in the field f rom approximately February to 23 November of '85?
24 A Yes, si r.
25 0 And almost that entire period occurred af ter the March
(]}
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1 1 29th incident where the inspectors went to the NRC?
2 A Yes.
3 0 Now, while you were in the field, to whom did you 4 repor t?
5 A Mr. Tuite.
6 0 Now, was he your Lead --
7 A No.
8 0 -- or was he your supervisor?
9 A He was my supervisor.
10 My Lead at that time was Ash Parulekar.
11 Q Who?
12 A Ash Parulekar.
O 13 MR. GALLO: You might want to spell that.
14 MR. CASS EL : For the Court Reporter, if you 15 can.
16 TH E WITN ESS : Okay. P- A- R- U- L- E-K -A- R .
l 18 Q And with what other inspectors did you do conduit l
19 inspections while you were in the field?
20 A Oh, gosh. I think I was involved with Jim Embog, and I l 21 think -- I can't specifically remember who else, l
22 O At any point did you work directly for Mr. Saklak?
23 A No, sir.
24 0 You testified in response to Mr. Gallo's questions about 25 the Phase 1-Phase 2 document review program.
(~)
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a 1 Was that one of your duties beginning when you 2 arrived at Comstock in October of '83?
3 A Yes, sir.
4 O And were you told at all what the reason for the program 5 was at that time?
6 A I'm sure I was, but I can't recall specifically what was 7 said.
8 0 Can you recall what your general understanding of the --
9 of the reason for the program was?
10 A I think the program was to make sure that all the-11 documentation was correct and would stand as a viable 12 inspection sheet on its own as to what was in the plant.
O 13 0 And were you told why it was thought necessary to have 14 such a program?
15 A I don't remember.
16 I'm sure there were some problems with it that 17 people had identified previously, and the program was
(
18 set up to correct those problems that previous t
19 individuals had identified that were problems.
20 Q when you say that, is that based on some information you 21 were given at the time?
22 A No. That's just my own conclusion.
I 23 0 were you aware of any backlog in connection with that 24 program at the time you arrived?
(} 25 A Backlog of inspections?
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5814 (QJ l Q Backlog of document review work to be done in connection 2 with the Phase 1-Phase 2.
3 A When that started -- it initially started when I arrived 4 here -- or had just gotten underway af ter I had started 5 there.
6 0 How about a backlog with respect to documentation of 7 inspections that were ongoing?
8 A Yeah. I think -- I think there was a considerable 9 backlog of inspections that needed to be done.
10 0 Mr. Gorman, I'm going to show you a letter which is part 11 of Intervenors' Exhibit 18, which has previously been t 12 marked.
13 It's a letter dated December 14, 1984, addreused to 14 Mr. Ken Worthington, Assistant QA Manager of Comstock, 15 from an inspector by the name of Daniel Asmussen.
16 I just want to ask you to take a look at that and 17 ask you first whether you have ever seen that letter.
18 (Indicating.)
19 A No, sir.
20 MR. MILLER: Did you say December 18th?
21 MR. CASS EL : December 14th. It's 22 Intervenors' Exhibic 18.
23 BY MR. CASSEL:
24 0 Would you take just a moment to read through it?
/~N 25 Then I'll ask you if you are f amiliar with the U
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\J 1 subj ect matter discussed in it.
2 MR. GALLO: You don't mind if I look over his 3 shoulder, do you?
5 JUDGE GROSSMAN: Should we take a five-minute 6 recess now or --
7 MR. CASS EL : That would be fine with me, 8 Judge.
9 JUDGE GROSSMAN : Okay. Why don't we do that.
10 (WHEREUPON, a recess was had, af ter which 11 the proceedings were resumed as follows:)
12 JUDGE GROSSMAN : We're back in session.
O 13 Mr. Cassel?
14 BY MR. CASSEL:
15 0 Mr. Gorman, during the break, did you have a chance to 16 review the letter there that's a part of Exhibit 18?
17 A Yes, sir, I did.
18 0 Okay.
19 And having reviewed that now, were you f amiliar in 20 that time f rame with the -- any of the concerns being 21 raised in that letter?
22 A Yes, si r.
23 I had never seen the letter previously, but I did 24 have knowledge of it f rom talking with Mr. Asmussen and
(} 25 Mr. Blake, who were doing the review.
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1 0 I see.
2 And which of the information or concerns in the 3 letter were you f amiliar with at the time?
4 A Well, only through discussion with them was hearing of 5 the welds that were completed in one day, the total 6 amount of welds.
7 Q Specifically what in the letter are you referring to 8 there?
9 A Well, the letter telling about zero percent reject rate 10 on welds inspected for that day, and it lists 1,166 11 welds for the -- for that day, for a one-day inspection.
12 Q And did you -- were you told or did you have any O 13 knowledge of who it was who had -- who had performed 14 that 1,166 welds referred to there?
15 A What do you mean; inf ormed by Mr. Asmussen or by --
l 16 Q Did you have any way of knowing who the inspector was 17 who had supposedly inspected 1,166 welds?
18 A Oh, yeah. I reviewed a lot of this paperwork. I've 19 seen -- I've seen a lot of this paperwork like this.
20 Like I say, I was in charge of the -- as a matter i
21 of fact, if you look back here to this last page, I did 22 review this document paperwork.
23 (Indicating.)
24 0 I'm ref erring specifically, though, to the 1,166 welds 25 and whatever inspector it was who did that.
(]}
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1 Did you know at the time who it was or were you 2 ever told?
3 A No.
4 JUDGE GROSSMAN: Do you know now who it was?
5 THE WITNESS: Yes, sir, after reading it.
6 JUDGE GROSSMAN: Oh.
7 JUDGE COLE: Well, who was it, Mr. Gorman?
8 TH E WITN ESS : Mr. Yanketis, I believe.
9 BY MR. CASSEL:
10 Q Now, in addition to that -- now, in addition to the 11 1,166 welds in one report by Mr. -- what was the name?
12 A I thought it was Yanketis.
) 13 0 -- Yanketis, were you also aware of other inspection 14 reports involving more than 1,000 welds in a single 15 inspection report?
16 A I don' t know specifically offhand of 1,000 or more, but 17 I -- there were several.
18 0 And do you recall who some of the inspectors were who l
t i 19 had performed those?
l 20 A I believe Mr. DeWald had, Rick Martin, and I believe 21 Mike Kast also had done some.
l l 22 JUDGE GROSSMAN : Excuse me.
23 You said "maybe not more than 1,000, but several. "
24 I'm not sure what you mean by "several. "
{} 25 If they' re not over 1,000, what did the "several" l
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2 TH E WITN ESS : Oh, I'd say above 100.
3 JUDGE GROSSMAN : Above 100?
4 THE WITNESS: Uh-huh.
5 JUDGE GROSSMAN: Okay.
6 THE WITNESS: As a figure I pulled out of'the 7 ai r. I'm not really positive.
8 I know they were considerable as to what 9 inspections required -- what they do nowadays compared 10 to back then, 11 JUDGE COLE: What do they do nowadays on the 12 average, sir?
O 13 THE WITNESS: I would say between eight to 14 ten to -- somewhere in that number.
15 JUDGE COLE: Thank you.
16 BY MR. CASSEL:
17 0 And whatever the specific number was in connection with 18 Mr. DeWald, how did you become aware of that?
19 A By review of paperwork.
20 0 And do you recall approximately when you became aware of 21 Mr. DeWald signing off a large number of welds on one 22 repor t?
23 A No. It was during doc review that we did it. We 24 identified them in doc review. We had seen them in doc 25 review.
( (~ }
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\_
1 Q And did you ever discuss what you found with respect to 2 Mr. DeWald with other inspectors and Comstock QC 3 employees?
4 A I'm sure I have. Everyone, I think, has talked about it 5 at one time or another.
6 I can't specifically say, "The date that I seen it, 7 I talked to so-and-so."
8 It was shoptalk around the plant -- or around the 9 area for quite a while.
10 0 Did you ever discuss it with Mr. DeWald?
11 A No.
-. 12 0 Did he ever discuss it with you?
\'
13 A No.
14 0 And what about the inspection sheet with the large 15 number of welds by Mr. Kast?
16 How did you become aware of that?
17 A Through the document review.
18 JUDGE GROSSMAN: Excuse me.
19 What was the nature of the shoptalk about these 20 inspection reports with large numbers of welds on them?
21 TH E WITN ESS : It was impractical to do that 22 many weld inspections in one day and do them 23 quality-minded or accurately.
24 JUDGE CALLIH AN : Excuse me, Mr. Cassel.
( ')
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l JUDGE CALLIH AN : There has been, during these 2 proceedings, considerable discussion of this point: 100 4
3 or more or 1,000 or more welds listed on a single sheet, 4 presumably bearing a single date.
5 From your experience and knowledge, particularly r
6 regarding the handling of records in the vault, is there 7 a mechanism of paper handling -- is there a flow of 8 paper such that, as an example, an inspector is 9 compelled to turn in the record of his accomplishments 10 on a daily basis or, coming to the point in question, is 11 there a likelihood or a possibility, even, that an 12 inspector may truly, over a period of several days, do O 13 that many inspections and then collect them in one place 14 on one piece of paper so that there is an inspection 15 repor t, if that's the proper term for the document we' re 16 speaking to -- collect his several days' worth on a 17 single report so that if one went no further than that l
- 18 one piece of paper, there is a strong appearance that 19 the 1,000 or more or several hundred, as the case might i
20 be, were truly done in one day?
I
! 21 N ow , I've made that a very long sentence, and I'll
! 22 go back and break it down if you don't understand it.
t i
23 So criticize my statement first.
l 24 THE WITNESS: Well, the requirements are,
(} 25 today and for the time period I've been there, as an 1
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5821 1 inspector, what you inspect today and you make out a 2 checklist for -- you turn it in at the end of the day 3 with your status report. There is a status report made 4 out.
5 The time period of doing 1,000 welds, 500 welds --
6 I can't say. I wasn' t there at that time. I don't know 7 what the requirements were.
8 Possibly, yes, they could have done a whole week's 9 work, combined it onto one sheet and turned it in.
10 Again, I can' t speak f or what they did at that time.
11 All I know is since I've been there, the
_ 12 requirement is you do an inspection and sign off a 13 checklist today, and you turn it in at the end of the 14 day to your Lead, to your supervisor, whoever it may be.
15 JUDGE CALLIH AN : There appears even in this 16 most recent -- most recently discussed document, the 17 letter from Mr. Asmussen to somebody -- to Mr. DeWald --
4 18 to Mr. Worthington, in connection with our discussion --
19 reading that, it appears in here someplace -- perhaps 20 it's in Mr. DeWald's reply -- that -- and I quote --
21 " inspections written on one check sheet. "
22 Is that what we' re speaking of ?
23 I called it an " inspection report. "
24 THE WITNESS: Yes.
(} 25 JUDGE CALLIH AN : Sometimes it is a check Sonntag Reporting Service, Ltd.
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5822 1 sheet?
2 THE WITNESS: A checklist.
3 JUDGE CALLIH AN : It could possibly be a total 4 of several days' work?
5 THE WITNESS: Possibly.
6 JUDGE GROSSMAN: That's the point I was 7 addressing; and as you say, from your current 8 experience, they truly do represent -- such sheets truly 9 do represent a day's work --
10 THE WITNESS : Yes, sir.
11 JUDGE CALLIH AN: -- at present, is your
- 12 statement, I believe.
'# THE WITNESS: Yes, sir.
13 14 You may do X number. There's no requirement that 15 you have to do 1,000 or whatever.
16 But today if you do one inspection, okay, you make 17 out one checklist for that specific inspection..
i 18 JUDGE CALLIH AN: And you are not really in a
~
19 position to discuss the 1985 procedures -- or late 19847 20 THE WITNESS : Not welding, sir. I was never 21 in welding.
-t 22 JUDGE CALLIHAN: Thank you.
23 JUDGE GROSSMAN: Excuse me.
I 24 There were two points made in this letter, at
(} 25 least: one being the total number of inspections made
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1 on one checklist, and the second being with regard to 2 the zero percent reject rate.
3 Was that also a matter of shoptalk?
4 TH E WITN ESS : Yes, sir.
5 JUDGE GROSSMAN: Okay.
6 JUDGE CALLIH AN: One further question 7 following: What was kept in your vault, if I may so 8 characterize it?
9 You slowed me down a moment ago, and you said you
. 10 had nothing to do with welding.
11 Were there not -- were there records of welding 12 inspections in your vault that passed through your
( }. 13 hands?
14 TH E WITN ESS : Yes, sir, but my statement 15 there was I was not a welding inspector.
16 I can't specifically say how many welds you can do 17 in a day. I can only go by shoptalk or hearsay. I was l
! 18 never a weld inspector.
19 JUDGE CALLIH AN: I think we understand. I 20 did not address the function and activity of a welder.
21 THE WITNESS: Right.
t 22 JUDGE CALLIH AN: I was speaking to you only I
23 on the basis of your experience with handling paper.
I 24 THE WITNESS: I see.
(} 25 JUDGE CALLIH AN: I think we've agreed.
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t .
1 Thank you very much.
2 BY MR. CASSEL:
3 Q Now, Mr. Gorman, in responding to some of the Judges' 4 questions, do I understand your testimony correctly that 5 the requirement that the inspection sheet for the
! 6 inspections done that day be turned in at the end of the 7 day has been in effect since you arrived on-site?
8 A As f ar as I can remember, yes. Ever since I've been an i 9 inspector, that has been the requirement, yes.
l 10 0 You arrived on-site in October of 1983?
11 A Yes, but I didn't go to the field until a later date 12 because I was in the vault area until -- what was it? --
(:) 13 February of 1985, I believe; somewhere in that time 14 zone.
15 So I officially went out to the field -- I did j 16 previous inspections, okay; but when I officially went 17 out to the field to start doing inspections every day, 18 then it was a one-on-one situation.
19 0 While you were in the vault reviewing documents l
j 20 beginning in the f all of 1983, were you aware of any l
21 procedure that called f or the inspections done in a l
, 22 particular day to be written up at the end of the day?
l 23 A I wasn't in contact that much with the procedures. I 24 don't remember. I don't recall.
i
(} 25 0 From your review of weld reports that came into the Sonntag Reporting Service, Ltd.
Geneva, utinois 60174 (312) 232-0262 i . - .-- - . -. _. _
5825 m
U 1 document vault becinning in October of 1983, did you 2 have any --
3 A I wasn't reviewing documents that came into the vault as 4 of October, 1983.
5 That came about later when I made Lead.
6 0 I see.
7 A I think it was in the early part of the spring of '84.
8 0 Well, then, from your review of --
9 A I'm sorry; the summer of '84.
10 Q From your review of the documents that you were 11 reviewing in October of 1983, did you have any way of 12 detecting f rom the document whether there was a practice O 13 involving the reporting of inspections at the end of the 14 day they were done?
15 A Not first-hand; just by coming into the vault on a daily 16 ba si s, I reviewed them and they were one inspection, one 17 checklist.
I 18 0 Coming in daily from each inspector?
l l 19 A Into the vault.
l 20 The inspectors were responsible for turning them in l
21 to their Lead, the Lead gave them to the supervisor, the f 22 supervisor transmitted them to the Status Department --
23 and I believe that was the system -- and then the Status 24 Department gave them to me for review for filing in that 25 vault.
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1 Q So your understanding, from your review of documents 2 beginning in October of 1983, was that there would be a 3 report for each inspector for each day?
4 A As far as I know, yes, as far as I can recall.
5 0 Now, do you know when Mr. DeWald had arrived at the 6 site?
7 A well, he was there two different times. He was there 8 previously as an inspector. He was on-site before I got 9 there, so he was the QC Manager before I came on-site.
10 0 Are you aware that he had arrived as QC Manager of the 11 site only shortly before you began your work there?
12 A Yes, sir.
O
\# 13 I don' t know exactly what time it was. I believe 14 it was in August or something, September; somewhere 15 around that time period.
16 JUDGE CALLIH AN: Mr. Cassel, before you 17 finish this point, I have another question --
18 MR. CASSEL: Absolutely, Judge.
19 JUDGE CALLIH AN: -- at whatever time is 20 convenient.
21 MR. CASSEL : It's okay now.
22 JUDGE CALLIH AN s I'm a little confused about 23 this time f rame.
24 The most recent instance -- the most recently
(} 25 discussed instance within these proceedings concerns a Sonntag Reporting Service, Ltd.
Geneva, HTinols 60174 (312) 232-0262
l l
1 5827 l 1 letter of December 14, 1984, which Mr. Cassel showed to 2 you a few moments ago.
3 THE WITNESS: Yes, sir.
4 JUDGE CALLIH AN ; Now, what were you doing on 5 or about December 14, 19847 6 TH E WITN ESS : I was the Lead in the vault, 7 reviewing paperwork. That was my --
8 JUDGE CALLIH AN : So that the --
9 TH E WITN ESS : -- specific responsibility.
10 JUDGE CALLIH AN : I'm sorry. I apologize.
11 Did you get his statement?
12 THE NOTARY: Yes.
O 13 JUDGE CALLIHAN : At that time, then, what, to 14 your knowledge, was the practice of turning in 15 checklists by the inspectors?
16 Was it on a daily basis then?
17 THE WITNESS: Yes, sir.
18 JUDGE CALLIH AN : Thank you.
20 Q Judge Grossman pointed out to you a few minutes ago, Mr.
21 Gorman, that in this December 14th letter, there were 22 really two problems raised -- one was the large number 23 of welds, and the other was the zero percent reject rate 24 -- concerning the report that you believe was done by 25 the gentleman whose name begins with Y.
(]}
I ;
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1 With respect to the other reports involving large 2 numbers of inspections that you referred to a few 3 minutes ago by Mr. DeWald and Mr. Kast -- and was there 4 one other?
5 I don' t recall.
6 A And Mr. Martin. ,
7 0 -- and Mr. Martin, do you recall whether those reports 8 also involved zero percent reject rates?
9 A I don ' t' r em em be r .
10 0 Do you recall whether you knew at the time you first 11 learned of them?
12 A No.
~()
13 0 Was the -- I believe you testified a few moments ago 14 that there was shoptalk concerning the report by Mr.
i 15 DeWald.
16 Did that shoptalk talk at all about the reject 17 rate, if any --
18 A No.
19 0 -- in Mr. DeWald's report?
20 A I think all the shoptalk pinpointed was the total amount 21 that were completed at one time.
22 0 Mr. Gorman, further on in Intervenors' Exhibit 18 is a 23 document which -- it's the next to the last page of 24 Exhibit 18, which I will now show you.
(} 25 (Indicating.)
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1 It's a -- some form of written communication f rom 2 Sally Campbell to I. DeWald; and it has a line in the 3 lower right-hand corner marked " supervisor," with a 4 signature above the name " supervisor. "
5 Is that signature your signature, sir?
6 A Yes, sir.
7 0 And there's certain information about deficiencies noted 8 on the document.
9 Can you explain what the -- what the nature of 10 deficiencies were that you were attempting to detect 11 with reference to this document?
12 A The individual reviewed the paperwork, and she O 13 identified these as, like it specifically says, the unit 14 number on the drawing was missing, the rev was missing 15 on the -- the rev of the drawing was missing, and there 16 was no welder ID.
17 Q And were these the only types of deficiencies that your 18 review was intended to detect or were there others?
19 A That was basically all of it.
20 Not only -- not those specifically; but along those 21 lines, if we found anything that was missing, missing 22 inf ormation, we detected it and noted it on that sheet.
23 0 And was it in the course of that review, looking for 24 those kinds of defects, that you came across these ,
25 reports by Mr. DeWald and Mr. Kast and the others?
(])
l Sonntag Reporting Service, Ltd.
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1 5830 m
V 1 A Yes.
2 Q Now, following the December 14, 1984, letter to Mr.
3 Worthington f rom Mr. Asmussen, were you made aware at 4 the time of whether there was any response to that 5 letter f rom Mr. DeWald?
6 A No, sir.
7 0 Were you made aware of any corrective action taken in 8 response to the concerns raised in that letter?
9 A No, sir.
10 0 Did you have any discussions with Mr. Asmussen 11 concerning what response, if any, he got f rom management 12 to his letter?
13 A No, sir.
14 0 Did you have any discussions with anyone concerning what 15 response, if any, was made to that letter?
16 A No, sir.
b 17 0 As of today, are you aware whether there was any la response to that letter?
19 A No, sir.
- 20 0 or any corrective action taken in response to it?
21 A No, sir.
22 0 And when you found these deficiencies in your 23 documentation, were the deficiencies limited to 24 inspections in n particular area, such as cable pans or 25 welding, or did they relate to all areas of Comstock QC
(]}
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i GenovaMi~1-ino15 60134 (312) 232-0262
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V 1 inspection work?
2 A It was -- it covered all the areas. We reviewed all 3 documents in the vault.
4 0 And did you find deficiencies in all areas?
5 A I didn't. I didn't specifically review all -- review 6 all the documents. I only did specific areas.
7 Some of the other people reviewed other areas, and 8 I -- they found errors, I'm sure.
9 0 Are you aware of any areas in which deficiencies were 10 not found?
11 A No.
12 Q Now, you testified earlier that you perceived an O 13 emphasis on quantity over quality, based on a number of 14 factors.
15 Do you recall any other inspectors complaining to 16 you that they had been pressured to emphasize quantity 17 over quality?
18 A I don't specifically remember any --
19 0 Do you recall --
20 A -- cer tain person.
21 0 Do you recall Danny Holley complaining to you that he 22 had been pressured while --
23 A I can't recall. He might have.
24 0 Okay.
25 Let me ask you, Mr. Gorman: Do you recall your
(])
Sonntag Reporting Service, Ltd. -
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1 deposition being taken in this case --
2 A Yes.
3 0 -- on May 13 th?
4 Do you recall being asked in your deposition about 5 whether Mr. Holley had said anything to you about being 6 pressured?
7 A I don ' t remember --
8 Q Okay.
9 A -- specifically what -- there were so many questions 10 that day, I can' t remember.
11 0 okay. Let me see if we can ref resh your re' collection by 12 referring you to Page 66 of your deposition, Mr. Gorman.
O 13 Let me just ask you to take a moment to read the 14 discussion concerning Mr. Holley on Pages 66 and 67.
15 (Indicating.)
26 A Yeah, that's possible. I think I remember saying that 17 now.
18 0 Having read that now, Mr. Gorman, does that ref resh your 19 recollection as to Mr. Holley telling you that he was 20 being pushed to produce quantity over quality?
21 A I believe at the time I was training with him, he did 22 state to me that he thought he was being pushed to get 23 more quantity out than more quality.
24 0 And approximately what time f rame were you in training 25 with him, if you can recall?
(])
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(
1 A I don' t remember. I don't really recall.
2 0 would it have been during the period when you were 3 working in the vault or af terwards when you went out 4 into the field?
5 A No. It was the period when I was in the vault.
6 0 so that would have been sometime during the period 7 between October,1983, and February of 1985?
8 A Yes, sir.
9 0 And do you recall that it was in approximately the 10 spring of 1984 when the push for additional training 11 began?
12 A I don't recall the specific time period.
O' 13 0 And it is correct, isn't it, Mr. Gorman, that you 14 remained in the vault until at least the end of 15 February, 1985?
16 A It was -- it was February of '85, is all I remember. I 17 don't remember the specific date.
18 Yeah, I think it was towards the end of the month.
19 0 What kind of training were you doing with Danny Holley?
20- A Configuration inspection.
21 JUDGE GROSSMAN : Why don't we take a break 22 for lunch now, unless I'm interrupting a line of 23 questioning, Mr. Cassel.
24 What would you pref er?
(} 25 MR. CASS EL : Only that I'm pretty close to Sonntag Reporting Service, Ltd.
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5834 O
1 being through, but we can have him pretty close to being 2 through right af ter lunch as well.
3 JUDGE GROSSMAN: Well, Mr. Gorman would have 4 to come back af ter lunch anyway, so we'll return at 5 1:15, then.
6 MR. CASSEL: Thank you, Judge.
7 (WHEREU PON , the hearing was continued to 8 the hour of 1:15 o' clock P. M.)
9 10 11 12 7s U 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 C:)
Sonntag Reporting Service, Ltd.
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[ l JUDGE GROSSMAN: We're back in session.
2 Mr. Gorman, you are still being examined.
1 3 Mr. Cassel, please continue.
4 MR. CASSEL: Thank you, Judge.
5 BY MR. CASSEL:
! 6 Q Mr. Gorman, Mr. Gallo asked you this morning about 7 Comstock executive Mr. Marino and whether he had ever
]
i 8 harassed you.
9 Do you recall Mr. Marino ever being on site while 4
10 you were there?
l 11 A Yes, sir.
12 O On approximately how many occasions?
13 A Oh, I imagine three or four times.
! 14 Q Do you recall in particular a meeting in approximately 15 the spring of 1984 when Mr. Marino spoke to the 16 inspectors as a group?
17 A Yes, sir.
18 0 And what was the essence of that meeting, if you recall?
19 A I think at that meeting -- I'm not really sure.
I
- 20 I think he gave several meetings when he came on l
l 21 site spring of '84. I believe in April he came on site;
! 22 and he was discussing all the upgrading of the pay with 23 the individuals, bring them up to a certain level for
- 24 pay.
!O 2s o veu ter trea ee sev r 1 ei#es-Sonntag Reporting Service, Ltd.
Geneva, Illinois 661T4 (312) 232-0262 1
5836 (D
V 1 Did you also attend other meetings at which Mr.
2 Marino spoke?
3 A I think there were a couple others. I can't 4 specifically pinpoint when.
5 I think he did come in a couple times, and I think 6 he did give one other meeting -- oh, yes, prior to the 7 union vote. He came in a couple days prior to the union 8 vote and gave a speech.
9 Q And did you have any one-on-one dealings with Mr.
10 Marino?
11 A Oh, yes. When I was in the vault, I had one-on-one rx 12 dealings with him.
(
13 He would come to the vault and I would talk with 14 him or we would discuss items that he wanted to talk 15 about or whatever he may want to discuss.
16 (Indicating.)
17 Q What were the nature of the discussions you had with Mr.
18 Marino in the vault one on one?
19 A Oh, basically he'd come in and ask me how things were 20 going and what things were going on, just different 21 typical questions of that sorts how things were going in 22 the vault.
23 (Indicating.)
24 Ile'd come in and look the vault over; kind of
() 25 overview different things.
floDntcLg_Reportino service, Ltd.
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1 Q And did you ever tell him about any of the problems you 2 were having in terms of backlog and need for additional 3 resources in the vault?
4 A No, sir.
i 5 Q Did you ever tell him about any of the incidents you had 6 with Mr. DeWald?
7 A No, sir.
8 Q Now, in the Phase 1 portion of the document review, when 9 you detected some shortcoming in a document such that it 10 required reinspection, is it correct that you would 11 attach a separate piece of paper to the document you 12 were reviewing indicating that a reinspection would be
)
13 needed?
14 A No. I believe most of the -- it was done on the one 15 sheet that had my name on them that -- like the one you 16 showed me Miss Campbell had.
17 I believe it was written on that sheet that it 18 needed the reinspection.
19 Q Now, that was not actually the document that was 20 reviewed? That was a sheet relating to the document 21 you reviewed; is that correct?
22 A Yeah.
23 0 And when reinspection was recommended, were there any 24 problems in terms of the reinspection note that you put
() 25 on the document, on the separate piece of paper, not Sonntag Reporting Service, Ltd.
Geneva, Illinois 6DTT4 (312) 232-0262
5838 1 being addressed?
2 A There was instances, yes, that it wasn't being addressed 3 properly, and I did bring it to management's attention.
4 0 You also talked about an incident or two involving Mr.
5 Saklak during this morning's tnstimony.
6 Did you have a perception, Mr. Gorman, that Mr.
7 Saklak's behavior toward Mr. Hii, for example, was 8 strictly a matter of Mr. Saklak's own personality or, 9 instead, that it reflected pressure he was receiving 10 from his superiors?
11 A I feel at the time with Mr. Hii, my own observations, it 12 was his personality.
(~)
v' 13 Q How about in general, though?
14 A I think at times Mr. Saklak had a lot of upper-echelon 15 pressure on him; my own observation.
16 0 And by upper-echelon pressure on Mr. Saklak, who in the 17 upper echelon are you referring to?
18 A I would say Mr. DeWald.
19 0 And what type of pressure are you referring to?
20 A To really get the job -- to get more of the job done, 21 get more things done. He wasn't getting enough 22 accomplished.
23 0 And, likewise, with respect to Mr. DeWald, was it your 24 impression that the statements he made, which you
() 25 interpreted to stress quantity over quality, were SonntaglepatingJe rvice ,_Ltd .
Geneva, Illinois 60134 (312) 232-0262
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1 strictly a result of Mr. DeWald's own management view or 2 that they, too, reflected pressure that he was receiving 3 from above?
4 A You mean Mr. DeWald was facing?
5 Q Mr. Dewald; right.
6 A I don't know if he was under any pressure to get 7 anything accomplished or not.
8 Q Did you --
9 A I never observed any instances where that may have 10 happened.
11 (Indicating.)
12 0 Did you have a perception that he was under pressure 13 from CECO to increase production?
14 MR. G ALLO : I object; asked and answered.
15 He said he didn't know whether Mr. Dewald had 16 experienced any pressure or not.
17 Doesn't that answer this question as well?
18 MR. CASSEL: I think the witness has given a 19 more elaborated testimony in his deposition, and I'm 20 leading up to refreshing his recollection here, Judge.
21 JUDGE GROSSMAN: Overruled, then.
22 A I can't recall.
23 BY MR. CASSEL:
24 Q Mr. Gorman, let me show you Page 38 of your deposition
() 25 and ask you to review the question beginning at Line 4 l
i i Sonntag Reporting Service, Ltd.
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5840 0
1 and your answer to that question, and then after you've 2 had a chance to review that, I'll ask you a question.
3 (Indicating.)
4 A Yeah, it was my -- my own opinion. I did say that, 5 yeah.
6 0 Okay. We need to -- just so the record is clear, you 7 were asked, " Based on the fact that you did report to 8 Mr. DeWald for some time directly, in any other contact 9 you may have had with him, did you have an opportunity 10 to form an opinion as to whether or not he was quality 11 minded," and you answered, "Again, I thought he was. My 12 impression is that he wanted a lot more work done. He 13 was -- again, this is my own opinion. I feel that he 14 was under the pressure of CECO, Commonwealth Edison, to 15 get some things done and that he felt uncomfortable with 16 the amount of work that was being done," and it goes on 17 from there.
18 Do you -- is that your opinion as you -- as you sit 19 here today?
20 A Yeah, that was my own viewpoint at that time when the 21 question was asked me before.
22 Again, that's my opinion as to I thought he might 23 have been under pressure to get some stuff done.
24 (Indicating.)
O 2s o ^#d were you eiee aware, ee e#v time der 1#9 voer Sonntaa Reportino Service, Ltd.
Geneva, Illinois 60134 (312) 232-0262
5841
,-\
V 1 employment at Comstock, of rumors that Comstock was in 2 danger of losing its contract at the site?
3 A Shop talk, yes.
4 MR. CASSEL: No further questions, Judge.
5 BOARD EXAMINATION 6 BY JUDGE GROSSMAN:
7 Q I believe you indicated earlier that you are not fearful 8 of testifying here; is that correct;?
9 A Yes, sir.
10 0 I take it you've discussed the prospect of testifying 11 here with others who are under call to testify here,
(~) 12 have you, sir?
U 13 A That have been here previously or --
14 0 Well, I'm just saying that -- no; ones that are expected 15 to be called to testify.
16 Have you, in general, discussed with anyone the 17 fact that they -- not the specifics of what they are 18 going to say, but the fact that they might be called to 19 testify?
20 A Possibly just maybe mentioning it with some of the 21 others that got a subpoena, asking, " Yeah, I'm going,"
22 or, "You're going? "
23 0 Okay.
24 A These people --
r (yj 25 Q My question is a real easy one.
Sonntag Reporting Service, Ltd.
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1 I just wanted to find out if anyone has expressed 2 any apprehension about being called here to testify.
3 A No.
4 0 Okay. What do you think would happen to a QC Inspector 5 if he were to come here and testify that he had ever 6 deliberately overlooked an inspection defect for any 7 reason?
8 A I think he would be terminated if he had -- if he said 9 he did do that deliberately.
'/ 10 Q How about if he were to come here and say that he had 11 overlooked a defect because of the press of work?
s 12 A I really don't know. I don't --
13 Q Do you think he might be in danger of losing his 14 position?
15 A I -- I wouldn't think so today, no.
16 (Indicating.)
17 JUDGE GROSSMAN: Okay, i
18 BOARD EXAMINATION 19 BY JUDGE COLE:
20 Q Just a couple questions, Mr. Gorman.
21 In response to a question earlier today, you j 22 indicated that the records in the vault were -- I forget i 23 your exact words, but, in effect, they were in a mess.
24 Do you recall saying that, sir?
() 25 A Not specifically.
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- Geneva, Illinois 60134 (312) 232-0262
5843 i
o 1 I may have said that, yeah, but I don't recall i
2 exactly.
1 ,
3 Q Well,.there were some significant problems with the 4 records --
- 5 A Yes, sir.
6 Q -- in the vault?
4 7 A Yes, sir.
! 8 Q What did you mean by that, sir?
) 9 A The problems of -- I'm trying to remember what that !
10 specific issue we were talking about was, j 11 The paper work wasn't complete or possibly items 12 lef t open or the checklist not stating specifically what i
13 they had inspected. In other words, not being a
- l 14 checklist that would stand on its own as a total i
- 15 inspection of the particular item.
! 16 (Indicating.)
i j 17 Q All right, sir.
18 Now, who was responsible for making sure that that 19 was not the case and that the records were in order?
20 Who's responsibility was that?
l i 21 A Making sure the checklists were properly filled out or I
22 they were the proper inspections of the items?
i 23 I'm --
24 Q Yes.
f) 25 Well, you indicated that there was a problem with
! Sonntag Reporting Service, Ltd.
Geneva, Illinois 60134 (312) 232-0262
5844 1 the records in the vault?
2 A Yes, sir.
3 Q And if all things were done properly, there should be no 4 problems with the records in the vault?
5 A Yes, sir.
6 Q And who's responsible for making sure that there are no 7 problems with the records in the vault?
8 A Well, there's several people involved:
9 The inspector themselves that fills out the 10 checklist; the Level II Inspector who signs it as saying 11 that the checklist is complete.
A 12 Totally, I guess Comstock management would be V
13 responsible to make sure everything is complete.
14 Q I believe you indicated you had document review 15 responsibilities?
16 A Yes, sir.
17 Q You get the records from the inspectors prior to the 18 time they go into the vault?
19 A From the supervisor after they have reviewed them and
! 20 transmitted them to me.
l 21 Q All right, sir.
! 22 So are you the last one who handles the documents l 23 before they go into the vault area?
p 24 A Yea, sir, I was at that time.
O 25 Q we11, in whee way are you respons181e for ehe seaeue of Sonntag_Reparting service. Ltd.
Geneva, Illinois 60134 (312) 232-0262
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1 the records in the vault?
2 A The status?
3 Q Did all this happen before you got there?
4 A Yes, a lot of it happened prior to me coming there.
5 My responsibility, again, like I said, was to make 6 sure the checklist was completely filled out.
7 I wasn't responsible for inspection itself, making i 8 sure that it was done, explained exactly, the item in 9 the field.
10 I was responsible to make sure that all of the 11 blanks were filled in; that I was trained to make sure 12 they were properly filled out; all -- everything was i 13 signed, dated; no check marks were left out of the boxes i
14 that should have check marks; writeovers or something of 15 that sort was properly addressed.
16 (Indicating.)
l 17 Q And do you feel that you accomplished the task that you l
18 were supposed to be doing during the time period that 19 you were responsible for this, sir?
20 A Yes, sir.
f 21 Q And the problems that you found there -- could you tell 22 me again what kinds of problems they were and what time i
! 23 periods might be involved?
t 24 A Oh, gosh.
() 25 I just looked at the -- almost every piece of paper
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s 5846 pJ s.
l that came in there.
2 There would be lineouts or writeovers or dates 3 missing or something of that sort; they would leave off 4 a drawing -- a drawing number; different things of that 5 sort.
6 There were many, many items that could be wrong 7 with it. It's hard to address a specific one.
8 Q The problems that you found, what time period were they, 9 particularly with respect to the time that you were 10 responsible for documents getting into the vault?
11 A It was all the time that I was a Lead Inspector there in 12 the vault for approximately a year, I believe it was, or 13 somewhere around that time period.
14 Q So they were documents that were generated before both 15 ,
and during your tenure in that position?
16 A Yes.
17 JUDGE COLE: All right, sir.
18 Thank you.
19 JUDGE GROSSMAN: Mr. Berry.
20 MR. BERRY: Miss Chan will represent the l
21 Staff.
22 CROSS EXAMINATION 23 BY MS. CHAN:
24 Q Mr. Gorman, I'd like to show you an exhibit labeled
/>
(,) 25 Applicant's Exhibit 39. It's a notice to employees by Sonntaa Reporting Service, Ltd.
Geneva, Illinois 60134 (312) 232-0262
5847
.Q
\>
1 the U. S. Nuclear Regulatory Commission.
2 (Indicating.)
3 I'd like you to look at it and see whether or not 4 you remember seeing that posted around the site.
5 A Yes, I believe I've seen this before.
6 0 In your previous testimony, you said that you did not 7 fear any retaliation, such as firing, for appearing in 8 this hearing.
9 You'll note here, if you can read that --
10 A Uh-hub.
11 0 -- one paragraph says, "Can I be fired for talking to 12 the NRC," and another paragraph says, "May I talk with
/
(s~T 13 an NRC Inspector without fear of retaliation?"
14 When you went to the NRC, were you aware of your 15 protections under this?
16 A I don't remember. I don't recall that I was, no.
17 That may have been posted around the area and I 18 just never really read it that thoroughly.
19 Q I see.
20 MR. GUILD: Mr. Chairman, for the record, as 21 noted previously when counsel raised this document with 22 a prior witness, the record still does not establish 23 which version of the form this is.
24 We're awaiting some clarification from Applicants
() 25 on that point.
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1 MR. GALLO: Applicants?
2 BY MS. CHAN:
3 0 Mr. Gorman, did you understand generally that you 4 couldn't be fired for going to the NRC to discuss any of 5 the matters you discussed with them?
6 A No, not at the time that I went to the NRC. I wasn't 7 really sure.
8 Q Had anyone told you, like Mr. Bossong, when he asked you 9 to come along?
10 A No.
11 Q Do you recall a meeting with NRC Inspector Mr. Mendez?
, 12 A Yes, ma'am.
13 Q And at the time of that meeting, which lasted -- did 14 that last about 20 -- excuse me -- 30 or 40 minutes, as <
15 you recall?
16 A I don't remember the exact time.
17 0 At that time, did he assure you -- were you talking one 18 to one with him?
19 A Yes, ma'am.
20 Q And did you feel free to speak to him --
21 A Yes, ma'am.
22 0 -- honestly?
23 JUDGE COLE: Did you answer that last 24 question?
() 25 JUDGE GROSSMAN: After she said " Honestly," I Sonntag Reporting Service, Ltd.
Geneva, Illinois 60134 (312) 232-0262
5849 b
1 take it the answer is yes?
2 THE WITNESS: Yes.
3 BY MS. CHAN:
4 Q And were you aware that no punitive action could be 5 taken against you for anything you said to the NRC 6 Inspector?
7 A I don't specifically recall the conversation Mr. Mendez 8 and I had at that time.
9 I don't remember if he pointed that out or what.
10 I wasn't aware that I couldn't be fired.
11 Q I see.
12 You -- were you aware that the NRC was 13 investigating the concerns brought up by the inspectors 14 who had gone to the NRC on March 29th?
15 A Yes, ma'am.
16 0 And that a report was to be written based on the 17 investigations of this inspector, and that information 18 you were supplying to him at this time would be used in 19 his report?
20 A Yes, ma'am.
21 Q And did you feel the responsibility to cooperate and be 22 truthful --
23 A Yes, ma'am.
24 0 -- in that interview?
() 25 Did Mr. Mendez ask you about your relationship with Sonntag Reporting Service, Ltd.
Geneva, Illinois 60134 (312) 232-0262
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/~ T U
1 Mr. DeWald at that time?
2 A I don't remember.
3 Q Do you recall telling him about Mr. DeWald?
4 A Yes, I believe I did.
5 Q Early in your testimony, you had -- I believe it was Mr.
6 Gallo had brought to your attention Intervenors' Exhibit 7 42A, which was a letter from Chuck Well, Mr. Weil, of 8 the NRC, that set forth some of the information about 9 the inspectors' allegations brought up at the March 29th 10 meeting?
11 A Yes, ma'am.
12 Q And you said -- and you said that you had received a 13 copy of that --
14 A Yes, ra'am.
15 0 -- from the NRC?
16 I'd like to show you a cover letter dated April 8th 17 from Charles Weil addressed to you at 317 North 18 LeVesseur Avenue --
19 (Indicating.)
20 A Uh-huh.
21 Q -- in Bourbonnais, Illinois.
22 Do you recall receiving that?
l 23 A I possibly could have. I don't remember at this time 24 that I did get it.
() 25 I didn't keep it if I did.
l l Sonntaa Reporting Service, Ltd.
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5851 (D
1 MS. CHAN: All right. I'd like to mark this 2 Staff Exhibit No. 4, please.
3 (The document was thereupon marked 4 Staff Exhibit No. 4 for identification as 5 of June 26, 1986.)
6 BY MS. CHAN:
7 0 If you can look at the last paragraph in this letter and 8 read it to yourself, that last paragraph requests that 9 if you have any additional information or corrections to 10 the enclosure, or any questions, that you contact Mr.
11 Weil.
12 Do you recall contccting Mr. Weil about any U
13 comment { on the enclosures?
14 A No, ma' m.
15 Q Early in your testimony, you discussed deadlines that 16 Mr. DeWald had imposed on assignments he had given you.
17 Can you describe what kind of work assignments 18 these were?
19 A Ibformation that he would need to give for auditors or 20 give to Commonwealth Edison.
21 Q Was it something like locating a particular document?
22 A Yes, ma'am.
23 Q Did he ever ask you to review large quantities of 24 documents and report to him within a short period of
() 25 time?
l Sonntag Reporting Service, Ltd.
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5852 O
1 A No, I can't remember of any specific instance.
2 Q So the deadlines he gave you for identifying or locating 3 a particular document for them -- for him were just 4 times that he would like to have you find a document by; 5 is that correct?
6 A Yes.
7 Q Do you see any problem with a manager giving you a time 8 at which he needed certain material so that he could --
9 A No; if it's a reasonable time, if -- if I can accept it 10 as a reasonable time.
11 If I -- .
12 Q Did you finish your answer?
13 A Yeah.
14 Q So do I understand your testimony that you found that 15 the time that Mr. DeWald gave you to identify or locate 16 a particular document was unreasonable?
17 A In some instances, yes, and to complete my daily work.
18 Q If Mr. DeWald had not given you a particular deadline by 19 which to find a certain document, when would you do-it?
20 A Well, I -- I would set it in my priorities as to what j_ 21 was to be done first.
22 I would still try to meet the deadline, but in a 23 different manner.
24 0 You mentioned that Mr. DeWald -- if he didn't give you a
() 25 time by which he needed the document, would you just Sonntaa Reportina Service, Ltd.
Geneva, Illinois 60134 l (312) 232-0262
5853 1 decide in your own mind how it would fit with your daily 2- schedule and how much you had to do and then do it at a 3 time that was convenient for you?
4 A I would rearrange my priorities to where I could, yes --
5 Q Isn't the --
6 A -- do it.
7 Q Isn't -- the assignment of a deadline, doesn't~that help 8 you set priorities as to when it should be done?
9 A To some -- some extent, yes; but you also have deadlines 10 of your own work to do every day to meet as well as 11 priorities of other items.
12 Q You've testified that you thought Mr. DeWald was 13 somewhat militaristic in that he held mass meetings for 14 mass discipline and you thought this was unfair.
15 Do you recall any time when one of the suggestions 16 at the mass meetings might have been directed to you if 17 it were on a one-to-one basis?
.8 1 A No. I just felt that it was directed at everyone at the 19 meeting.
- 20 Q But no one time, when Mr. DeWald was giving one of his 21 disciplinary meetings, did you feel that that particular j 22 comment was addressed to you in particular?
23 MR. GALLO: Objection; form of the question; 24 use of the term " disciplinary"; no foundation.
() 25 JUDGE GROSSMAN: I'm sorry.
Sonntag Reporting Service, Ltd.
Geneva, Illinois 60134
( (312) 232-0262
5854 4
O 1 What is the objection?
2: I didn't hear it all, Mr. Gallo.
3 MR. GALLO: Form of the question; the use of 4 the word " disciplinary"; lack of foundation for that 5 characterization.
i 6 MS. CHAN: I'll rephrase the question.
j 7 BY MS. CHAN:
8 Q Did any of the comments that Mr. DeWald made at one of
) 9 these mass meetings -- did you feel that that applied to l 10 you as an individual?
11 A Yes, I think it applied to everybody at the meeting.
I 12 It all depends'how the individual takes it in 13 context.
i 14 Q But did you feel that any of those were justifiably 15 addressed to you as a -- as opposed to Mr. DeWald's 16 general address to all the inspectors?
l 17 A No.
18 Q You've testified that you were afraid that you might be
- 19 fired if you missed a deadline that Mr. DeWald had set 20 for you.
( 21 Can you please elaborate on the basis for your --
2 22 for that fear?
- 23 A The interpretation I got of how he came across to -- for !
[ 24 me to do the -- the --
() 25 Q So it was his attitude or --
I l
i P
Sonntac Reportina Service, Ltd.
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5855 O
1 A Yes, the impression I formed of him of how he came 2 across.
3 Q He didn't threaten you with firing, did he?
4 A No.
5 Q Do you know if anyone has been disciplined or written up 6 for failure to meet a deadline set by Mr. DeWald?
7 A No.
8 Q Do you know if anyone has been fired for failure to meet 9 a deadline set by Mr. DeWald?
10 A No.
11 MS. CHAN: I have no further questions for 12 the witness at this time.
13 Thank you, Mr. Gorman.
14 JUDGE GROSSMAN: Mr. Gallo, redirect.
15 REDIRECT EXAMINATION 16 BY MR. GALLO:
17 0 One follow-up question to counsel's questions.
18 Did you feel, during any of these general meetings 19 which Mr. DeWald was conducting, that you -- even though 20 he was talking to the masses generally of inspectors, 21 that you yourself was being singled out for criticism?
22 A No.
23 0 In answer to one of Mr. Cassel's questions, you 24 indicated that -- I believe it was your testimony that
() 25 you returned to work in the vault in November of 1985.
Sonntag Reporting Service, Ltd.
Geneva, Illinois 60134 (312) 232-0262
i 5856 4
t 1 Do you remember that testimony?
2 A Yes, sir.
3 Q All right. And what did you do exactly at that time 4 when you returned to the vault?
5 A I didn't really go back into the vault.
6 We were assigned as document reviewers of specific 7 areas that we were certified in, and there was several i
8 individuals involved in this, and I was picked as one 9 individual to do the research on items that had 10 identified problems.
11 (Indicating.)
12 Whatever they may be, it was my job to take that 13 document and make it right, correct it to the specific 14 problems that were identified by other individuals who
- 15 had done the document review.
16 (Indicating . )
17 Q Did you ever return to the field after November, '85, to-18 do inspections?
l 19 A Yes, sir.
i 20 Q Do you remember approximately when that was?
21 A March of this year, I believe.
22 Q March of '86?
- 23 A Yes, sir.
24 Q You were showed Intervenors' Exhibit 18 by Mr. Cassel,
() 25 and in particular, I believe you looked at a -- an Sonntag Reporting Service Ltd.
Geneva, Illinois 60134 l (312) 232-0262
5857 s
N]
1 inspection checklist by a Mr. Yanketis.
2 Do you recall that?
3 A Yes, sir.
4 Q First of all, you testified with respect to the present 5 practice of -- of recording inspection results.
6 I believe it was your testimony that generally the 7 results of one day's inspections are supposed to be 8 recorded by the inspector on the checklist after that 9 day is over; is that correct?
10 A If he's completed with that inspection and signs off the 11 checklist, yes.
12 Q And is that a -- a rule established by Mr. DeWald; do j )
13 you know?
14 A I believe it was, yes.
i 15 Q Now, do you know, from your review of -- of inspection 16 checklists, how the -- the inspected welds are recorded 17 on the checklist?
18 Is it by hanger?
19 A It all depends what you are inspecting.
20 If you are inspecting a hanger, you do the welds 21 that are on that specific hanger, yes, sir.
22 Q You would report that particular -- you would show that 4
23 particular hanger --
i 24 A Yes, sir.
() 25 Q -- on the checklist?
- Sonntag Reporting Service, Ltd.
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5858 O
1 A Yes, sir.
2 Q And if you did two hangers that day, you would show both 3 of them on the checklist?
4 A No, sir.
5 Q How would you reflect that?
6 A You would fill out separate checklists for each 7 individual one you inspected.
8 Q All right. Now, returning to the checklist that is part 9 of Intervenors' 18, the one signed by Mr. Yanketis, can 10 you tell me, from looking at the checklist, when that 11 was signed off by Inspector Yanketis?
12 A It looks like it was signed off 5/8/79.
13 0 1979?
14 A Yes.
15 Q And is this the checklist that shows 1,166 welds 16 inspected?
17 A This doesn't -- well, yes, 1,166 welds.
18 (Indicating.)
19 It doesn't specifically say welds. " Quantities of l
20 weld this grid, 1,166," yes.
l 21 Q " Quantities of weld this grid, 1,166"?
l 22 A Uh-huh.
! 23 Q Now, what does that mean, if you know?
( 24 A I don't really know. I'm not a Weld Inspector.
() 25 0 Are you aware of -- of the use of the designation, i
Sonntag Reportina Service, Ltd.
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l
- 5859
()
I within a particular area, of grids for purposes of weld 2 inspection?
3 A No, sir. l 4 Q Do you know how many hangers would be in a grid?
1
! 5 A Several. I'm not really familiar with how many would be 1
- 6 in there.
7 I would say there are -- there could be a hundred, 8 200 in there.
9 Q What, hangers?
l 10 A Yes, sir.
11 Q Well, then, you are familiar, to some extent, of what a 12 grid means or --
l 13 A Yes, sir.
14 0 -- or what it describes in terms of this checklist; is 15 that correct?
16 A Yes, sir.
17 Q Well, can you help me and give me that understanding, 18 please?
19 A Basically, a grid could be a whole area of a room, one
! 20 specific room.
! 21 Q It's kind of an arbitrarily-designated area --
22 A Yes, sir.
I 23 Q -- in the room?
l 24 And from looking at this checklist, can you tell i
() 25 whether or not the 1,166 welds represents a Sonntag Reporting Service, Ltd.
! Geneva, Illinois 60134 (312) 232-0262 I
- . - ._ ~ - - - - _ . . - _ . . - - . . . _ . - - - . - - . . - . - . - . . - . - _ .-
i i
5860 i ' (/~)N 1 particular -- or not a particular, but a grid area?
2 I'll give it back to you if you would like to look.
3 (Indicating.)
4 A I can basically go by the checklist that is represented j 5 by the cover sheet that tells y6u how many hangers he
!' 6 did within that specific area.
7 Q And how many is that?
l 8 A Do you want me to count them all?
j 9 Q No.
- 10 It's several, isn't it?
i
). 11 A Yes.
! 12 Q It speaks for itself, yes.
- 13. The witness is referring to the sheet dated May 8,
{
{ 14 1979, in front of the c,hecklist that I asked him 15 questions about, all of.which is a part of Intervenors' 1
16 Exhibit 18.
17 Can you tell, from the documentation in front of i
18 you, for certain whether or not those hangers were all l 19 inspected in one day?
20 A~ No, sir.
! 21 Q But it's clear from looking at the exhibit, in the 22 sheets I showed you of Exhibit 18, that at least in --
i 23 in 1979, the practice was other than what you were l 24 familiar with and testified to; is that correct?
() 25 A Yes, sir, yes, sir.
i I Sonntaa Reportina Service, Ltd.
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- (312) 232-0262 i _ _ _ _ . . ,___..
5861 l'h U
1 Q Instead of showing -- reflecting the results of 2 inspection on one hanger per checklist, it was several 3 hangers per checklist?
I 4 A As far as I know.
5 Q I believe you testified that you were familiar -- in 6 answer to Mr. Cassel's questions, that you were familiar 7 with several other' instances, involving other people 8 besides Mr. DeWald, of large numbers of welds being 9 inspected and -- and that being shown on a particular 10 checklist.
11 Do you recall that?
r 12 A . Yes, sir.
13 Q I'm going to show you a document that's part of 14 Intervenors' Exhibit 19. It's from -- well, part of it 15 is whited out or not reproduced; but, anyhow, it's to a 16 Mr. Smitana at Pittsburgh Testing Lab from what looks 17 like -- from an individual whose first part of the name 18 I can recognize as Brown.
19 (Indicating.)
20 A Uh-huh.
21 Q Do you recognize that individual? Can you help me with
, 22 who that is?
! 23 A I think he was QC Manager on site at that time for L. K.
24 Comstock.
() 25 That is before my time.
I Sonntag Reporting Service, Ltd. ,
Geneva, Illinois 60134 (312) 232-0262
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('~)
v 1 Q His name was Brown?
2 A Robert Brown.
3 Q All right. What I'm referring to is this memorandum 4 dated March 12, 1981, and ask if you had seen this 5 particular document before this time.
6 You can look at the second page as well.
7 (Indicating.)
8 A I possibly could have seen it before.
9 I reviewed thousands of pieces of paper, and I 10 can't recall.
11 Q You can't recall this particular one?
r" 12 A No, sir.
(>)
13 0 Does this show -- can you tell from this document who 14 the inspector was that reported the results of the -- of 15 his inspections?
. 16 A It looks like Mr. DeWald was the inspector.
17 Q Could you see from the document the total number of 18 welds that he inspected?
19 A Yes.
20 0 What is that number?
21 A According to the document, it says 551.
22 Q Can you tell from the documents in front of you whether 23 it's -- those inspection results are reported on a grid
, 24 basis or not?
() 25 A I would say yes.
Sonntag Reporting Service, Ltd.
Geneva, Illinois 60134 (312) 232-0262
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5863 LO i
1 It's from the grid of Q to V 10.7 to 15 area.
2 0 What does that mean?
3 A Oh, it's a specific area within the plant that he did 4 inspections there.
i, l 5 Q And that would be one of these so-called grid areas?
6 A Yes.
7 Q Do you recall -- do you recall or know when the -- the 8 practice at Comstock was changed for reporting 9 inspection results of welds on a -- on a -- multiple k 10 inspection results on one inspection. checklist versus 11 just one particular hanger on one checklist?
- 12 A I think that was already a practice at the time when I
-13 started with Comstock. I'm not really positive.
14 Q You believe it was in October of '83?
i i 15 A I think it was.
16 Q Do you know whether it was in -- it was a practice that 17 was being implemented prior to your coming to the site?
18 Do you recall?
19 A I don't know, I don't recall, I don't remember.
20 Q Returning to Exhibit -- Intervenors' Exhibit 18, you i 21 were showed a letter in that exhibit written by Mr.
22- Asmussen to Mr. Cassel.
23 Do you recall being shown that letter?
l 24 A Yes, I saw it from him.
i i
() 25 Q And he asked you a number of questions about whether or Sonntag Reporting Service, Ltd.
. Geneva, Illinois 60134 j (312) 232-0262
5864 p]
L 1 not you were aware of -- of any corrective action that 2 was taken and whether or not Mr. Asmussen was given any 3 advice with respect to any corrective action.
4 Do you recall those questions?
5 A Right.
6 Q I believe you indicated that you -- you were not aware?
7 A I don't recall being aware of it.
8 Q Can you tell, from the front page of Exhibit 18, whether 9 or not Comstock management made Mr. Asmussen aware of 10 the corrective action -- of any corrective action?
11 Yes, that's two pages; and take your time.
12 A From looking at this, it seems that Mr. DeWald answered 13 his letter and sent him a copy of it.
14 His name is mentioned in here to get a carbon copy 15 of it.
16 0 Who are you referring to?
17 A Mr. Asmussen.
18 Q All right, all right.
19 Do you know whether or not Mr. Asmussen took any 20 further action with respect to this matter after he 21 received this memorandum -- a copy of this memorandum 22 from Mr. DeWald?
23 A No, sir.
24 Q Do you know whether he did any further inspections?
() 25 A Further inspections in the field or --
Sonntag Reporting Service, Ltd.
Geneva, Illinois 60134 (312) 232-0262
5865 1 Q No.
2 A -- researched it further?
3 0 Inspections with respect to the matter he was referring 4 to in his letter there.
5 A I don't know.
6 Q You don't know?
7 A I really don't know.
8 Q Have you ever seen -- to your recollection, have you 9 ever seen any inspection reports -- they are Form 19, 10 aren't they? Isn't that what they are called, Form 11 19's?
, 12 A There are several forms.
13 Form 19's a welding inspection, yes, sir.
14 Q Yes.
15 Have you ever seen any Form 19's signed by Mr.
16 DeWald showing more than 551 welds being inspected?
17 A I can't recall.
18 Q I believe you testified that -- that Mr. DeWald was on 19 site at two different times?
20 A Yes, sir, to my knowledge, he was.
21 I wasn't there when he was there the first time.
22 0 Well, do you know when he was there the first time?
23 A No, sir.
24 Q Do you know what year he -- he came on site the first
() 25 time?
Sonntag Reporting Service, Ltd.
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5866 O
1 A No, sir.
2- Q Do you know when he left?
3 A I believe it was -- I can't say for sure. I think it 4 was 1981. I'm not really pcsitive.
5 Q Do you know what he did when he was on site during that 6 first time?
7 A Welding inspector.
8 Q And then when did he come on site the second time, to 9 your recollection?
-10 A He was there before I got there in 1983, October. I 11 believe he was there in August or September.
12 0 All right. At these mass meetings that you attended, do 13 you ever recall Mr.'DeWald saying something like, when i 14 he was urging these inspectors to do more work, "By
- 15 golly, if I could do a thousand welds in a day, you 16 ought to be able to do much more than what you are 17 doing," words to that.effect?
l 18 A I don't recall any specific instance, no.
l 19 Q Now, I believe you testified that --
20 JUDGE GROSSMAN: Excuse me.
l 21 Mr. Gallo, are you on a different topic than
[ 22 Exhibit 18 now?
i 23 MR. GALLO: Yes.
24 JUDGE GROSSMAN: Do you mind if I ask one or
() 25 two questions here so we can get you back on redirect?
Sonntag Reporting Service, Ltd.
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. _ , . - _, . . . _ _ _ . _ _ . - - _ _ , _ . . . . _ _ . . ~ _ _ . _ _ _ _ . . _ _ _ . _ _ . . _ - _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ -. .
- _ . . . . - - - .~ - -.. __ _ .~. ._ -_ _
5867
- O .
1 1 MR. GALLOW: Go ahead.
2 BOARD EXAMINATION 3 BY JUDGE GROSSMAN:
i ,
4 Q Mr. Gorman, Mr. Gallo asked you a question referring you 5 to the inspection report on Intervenors' Exhibit 18, and 6 asked you whether, from looking at that report, you can 7 tell when the inspection was performed, and I think you 4 8 said no, you couldn't.
. 9 Could you take another look at that document now?
i 10 MR. GALLO: Your Honor, I think I asked him j 11 if he could tell when it was signed off, and he did give 12 me an answer to that question.
j 13 THE WITNESS: Yes, he asked me.
, 14 He asked me, also, if I could tell him if all those 15 inspections were done over a period of time or on one 16 day. ;
i 17 JUDGE GROSSMAN: Well, I think the question I 18 heard was whether you could tell, from looking at the f 19 inspection report, what date the inspection was 20 performed on.
21 Did you ask that question, Mr. Gallo?
[ '22 MR. GALLO: Well, go ahead and ask it, Judge.
l 23 JUDGE GROSSMAN: Well, I will ask you.
24 BY JUDGE GROSSMAN: -
l ()
l 25 Q Can you, from looking at the form?
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. -. . .. ....._.. .-- - . - .= .-. _ - -- . - . _ -
E 5868 D
. s-r -
1 A No, that's not the form I looked at, sir.
2 Q Oh, okay.
3 A It was this one here I looked at.
4
- 4 (Indicating.)
5 That's a PTO overview of the inspection of what he 6 turned in.
- 7 JUDGE GROSSMAN
- Well, then I'm sorry I 8 interrupted your questioning, Mr. Gallo.
9 JUDGE CALLIHAN: While'you are interrupted, 10 Mr. Gallo, may I ask a question?
i 11 (Laughter.)
~
12 BOARD EXAMINATION 13 BY JUDGE CALLIHAN:
14 Q Mr. Gallo showed you Exhibit 19, which, if I may --
j 15 MR. GALLO: Yes.
j 16 BY JUDGE CALLIHAN:
17 Q -- we'll also bring to your attention.
l l 18 (Indicating . )
19 Tell us what that front page shows; will you 20 please?
I 21 There are a number of items, most of which, at any
{ 22 rate, are prefixed by an H --
23 A Yes, sir.
24 Q -- listed.
() 25 What do those tell you?
Sonntaa Reportina Service, Ltd.
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5869 q
V 1 A It tells me that they are specific hangers in the field.
2 The designation H means it is a cable pan hanger, 3 and that of all those cable pan hangers that he
- 4 inspected, there was 515 -- I'm sorry -- 551 total 5 welds.
6 0 On all the hangers.
7 So these are not individual welds; these are the 8 hangers --
9 A Yes, sir.
10 0 -- that are listed?
11 A Yes, sir.
12 These hangers may have as many as 15, 20 welds on 13 each one --
14 JUDGE CALLIHAN: Yes.
15 Thank you very much.
16 A (Continuing.) -- or more.
17 I'm not really sure.
18 (Indicating.)
19 BY MR. GALLO:
20 Q I believe you were asked by Mr. Cassel whether or not it 21 was your perception that Mr. Saklak was being pressured 22 by his -- his upper echelon, was the term I believe you 23 used, and you clarified that to mean Mr. DeWald; is that 24 correct?
(m) 25 A Yes, sir.
i Sonntag Reporting Service, Ltd.
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'V 1 Q And I think you indicated that you thought he was; is 2 that correct?
3 A Yes, sir.
4 Q How did you learn of -- of this pressure of Mr. DeWald 5 upon Mr. Saklak?
6 A Just my own personal observation of how Mr. Saklak was.
7 Q Did Mr. Saklak ever discuss it with you?
8 A No.
9 Q He didn't complain to you that Mr. DeWald was on his 10 back and, therefore, something had to be done?
11 A No. ,
r~ 12 Q Did Mr. DeWald ever discuss it with you?
\_)g 13 A No, sir.
14 Q Did any of your fellow inspectors indicate to you that 15 they had heard such a thing?
16 A No, sir.
17 0 Is it fair to say that your judgment that Mr. Saklak was 18 being pressured by Mr. DeWald was just an inference you 19 drew based on what you observed and the way Mr. Saklak 20 behaved?
21 A Yes, sir.
22 0 You also testified that you thought that Mr. DeWald was 23 being pressured by CECO.
24 Do you recall that testimony?
() 25 A I thought that -- I thought that may be -- there may --
Sonntag Reportina Service, Ltd.
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i 5871 1 he may be being pressured by Commonwealth Edison to get 2 work caught up and done. That was my own feelings.
3 Q It was your own feeling that he may be pressured?
4 A Right.
5 Q Did you know, in fact, that he was being pressured?
6 A No.
7 Q Did Mr. DeWald ever complain to you about that?
4 j 8 A No.
9 Q Did you ever observe a situation where it was clear to i
10 you that some member of Commonwealth Edison was i
11 pressuring DeWald?
1 12 A No.
13 Q You had indicated that you had heard through shop talk 14 that it was possible that Comstock might lose the i 15 contract for the work at Braidwood.
16 A Yes, sir.
17 Q Was that just the QC inspection work or was that the 18 contract as a whole; do you recall?
19 A The contract as a whole.
20 0 Was that because -- the shop talk was because production i 21 was behind schedule?
22 A You mean as far as QC Inspectors or are you talking l 23 production people?
j 24 Q Yes, production people.
I () 25 A I'm not really sure why, what the reasons were.
Sonntag Reporting Service, Ltd.
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__ _ . _ _ m.
5872 1 Q Now, Mr. Cassel asked you a couple questions about Mr.
I 2 Holley --
3 a Yes.
4 0 -- and he referred to the deposition transcript at Pages 5 66 and 67.
6 I'm going to show them to you in a minute for r
7 purposes of refreshing your memory as to whether or not 8 you had ever been told by Mr. Holley that he had 9 experienced a situation where DeWald or QC management 10 emphasized quantity over quality.
11 Do you recall that series of questions by Mr.
12 Cassel?
13 A Yes.
14 Q And he showed you -- at first you answered that you l 15 - ', didn't -- you couldn't recall.
16 _ Do you recall that?
I
, 17 f A Right.
18 '
Q Then he showed you the transcript and that refreshed 19 -
you'i' memory?
4 %
- y 20 s A Yea ~, sir.'
' s21 Q Now, I want to show you the -- we'll start on Page 66.
22 Mr. Holley's name is -- is mentioned for the first time t 23 '
,. on\thispageatLine19;andI'llreadthe--the x , . e .
"24 , quistion -- well, the two prior questions.
- ^ ()
25 "All right" --
this is a question -- I guess the
. s m
- - Sonntad'Reportino Service, Ltd.
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Geneva, Illinois 60134 s (312) 232-0262
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5873 O
1 questioner is Ms. Kezells.
2 "O All right. This is while you were training 3 people or when you were being trained?"
4 "A When I was being trained 5 "O And these were people who were training you 6 that were telling you that they got pushed, some 7 individuals?
8 "A Some individuals; not all of them.
9 "Q Of the names that you gave me earlier today, 10 can you recall who they might have been?
11- "A Danny Holley.
12 "O Danny Holley. Okay.
13 Anybody else?
14 "Not that I recall," is the answer.
15 "O Do you recall what you said to Mr. Holley 16 when he said that to you?
17 "A No. I just more or less listened to him to 18 see what he had to say.
19 I could have made some comments back. I i 20 don't remember.
l l 21 "O Did he ever tell that you a particular number 22 of inspections were imposed upon him; that he was 23 required to perform a particular number?
24 "A No.
() 25 "O Did he ever tell you that any kind of quota i
Sonntag Reporting Service, Ltd.
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5874 1 was being imposed upon him?
2 "A No.
3 "O Okay. Did he ever tell you what the basis 4 was for his feeling of pressure to perform more 5 inspections?
6 "A No.
7 "Q Did he ever tell you that he had been 8 instructed to ignore the quality of his inspections for 9 quantity or words to that effect" -- I'll repeat that I
< 10 question.
11 "O Did he ever tell you that he had been 12 instructed to ignore the quality of his inspections for O(w
! 13 quantity or words to that effect?
14 "A Not that I can recall.
15 "O Did he ever identify who he thought was 16 pressuring him?
17 "A I think it was Mr. Saklak at that time."
i 18 And then there's a series of questions on Page 68 19 that go on about the relationship between Saklak and 20 Holley.
l 21 Now, the question is:
22 Mr. Gorman, what was there about these two pages 23 that you read in answer to Mr. Cassel's question that 24 refreshed your memory that Mr. Holley had told you that
,() 25 he felt that QC management was emphasizing quantity over
+
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1 quality?
2 If you want to take some time to look at this, 3 that's all right.
4 A Just the way he was discussing things with me when I was 5 training, that they wanted more work put out.
5 0 Well, was there anything on Pages 66 or 67 that 7 refreshed that memory --
8 A No.
9 Q -- or is this just something that you recall?
10 A Well, I recalled it after I seen it there, what I had 11 said at the deposition.
12 (Indicating.)
13 Q So you recalled your conversation with Mr. Holley at 14 that time; is that right?
15 A Yeah.
16 0 Okay. And, I mean, you recall now your conversation 17 with Mr. Holley?
18 A Right.
19 Q And Mr. Holley told you that he thought there was an 20 emphasis on quantity versus quality; is that correct?
21 A Yes.
22 0 And that was during the training exercise?
23 A Yes, sir.
24 Q Okay. Did he explain to you the basis for his opinion?
() 25 A I don't recall that, no.
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V 1 Q Did you ask him?
2 A I don't think so.
3 Q Do you recall your reaction to his statement?
4 A I just -- like I said in the statement there in the 5 deposition, I just kind of listened to him to see what 6 he had to say.
7 (Indica ting . )
8 0 I'm going to show you Pages 66 and 67 again, and in 9 particular, the questions and the answers on Page 67.
10 (Indicating.)
11 My question is:
rT 12 If I were to --
U 13 JUDGE GROSSMAN: I'm sorry.
14 Is there a pending question?
15 MR. GALLO: The witness is reading the next 16 page that I am going to direct my question to.
17 I'm waiting for him to finish.
18 MR. GUILD: The next page?
19 MR. CASSEL: Which page is that, Joe?
20 MR. GALLO: He's now on Page 69.
21 MR. CASSEL: Which page do you want to ask 22 about?
23 MR. GALLO: 66.
24 MR. CASSEL: 66.
() 25 BY MR. GALLO:
Sonntaa Reportina Service, Ltd.
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1 Q Okay. Have you finished?
2 A Yes, sir.
3 Q Actually, it's 67.
o 4 Now, Mr. Gorman, looking at Page 67, if I were to 5 ask you the same questions that were asked of you during 6 your deposition and the questions as they are reflected 7 on this page, would your answers be the same?
8 A Yes.
9 0 Take your time and look -- check your answers.
10 (Indicating.)
11 If you want to change any of the answers, feel free 12 to do so.
13 Would your answers be the same?
14 A Basically, I think so, yeah.
15 Q Did.you ever consider going to the NRC and complaining 16 about Mr. DeWald prior to March 29, 1985?
17 A No, sir.
- 18 0 When did you have your meeting with Mr. Mendez?
19 A I don't remember.
20 Q Was it after --
21 A It was after that, I believe, yes.
22 Q After March 29th, after March 29th?
23 A Yes, yes, I'm pretty sure it was.
24 Q As part of your duties when you were in the vault, did
() 25 you routinely or otherwise review the welder Sonntag Reporting Service, Ltd.
< Geneva, Illinois 60134 i
(312) 232-0262
~
5878 1 qualification records looking for discrepancies?
2 A In what area are you talking about?
3 As far as if they're qualified?
4 Q Yes.
5 A We reviewed them -- I can't remember.
15 Q Take your time.
7 A Yes, I think we did do that when we did document review, 8 to make sure that an individual that did do inspections 9 was qualified -- certified at the time of his.
10 inspection, 11 Q Yes. My question wasn't clear enough.
'12 What I meant to say was:
13 Did you review welder qualification records looking 14 for --
15 A No, sir.
16 Q -- discrepancies?
17 A No, sir.
18 I thought you meant weld inspectors. I'm sorry.
f 19- Q No. My question was not clear.
l i 20 In answer to one of Mr. Grossman's questions, I i 21 believe you -- you indicated that -- that you didn't 22 believe that if someone testified in'this proceeding i 23 that they had overlooked a defect during an inspection 24 or during a document review -- and you correct me if I'm
() 25 characterizing your position wrong -- that you didn't Sonntag Reporting Service, Ltd.
Geneva, Illinois 60134 (312) 232-0262
5879 4
(~%
GI 1 believe'that if that was disclosed in this hearing, that 2 that individual would be fired; is that a fair 3 statement?
4 JUDGE GROSSMAN: Excuse me.
5 I said " deliberately," and so that if someone 6 testified that he had deliberately overlooked a defect 7 for any reason, that he would be fired.
8 MR. GALLO: All right.
9 BY MR. G ALLO :
, 10 0 I thought that Judge Grossman also asked you whether or 11 not you would be fired if just because you testified you 12 overlooked a defect because of the press of work.
13 Do you recall that testimony?
14 A No, I don't remember.
15 JUDGE GROSSMAN: Well, I'll recall it for 16 you.
17 The witness didn't answer in the affirmative there.
j 18 He said he didn't know what would happen.
- 19 BY MR. GALLO
l
- 20 0 Does that now refresh your memory?
21 A (Indicating.)
22 0 All right. Do you know what would happen if -- if it 23 was disclosed that a discrepancy was overlooked because 24 of pressure from a supervisor to get work done?
() 25 Do you think an inspector might be terminated in Sonntaq Reporting Service, Ltd.
Geneva, Illinois 60134 (312) 232-0262
5880 l^)
V 1 that event?
2 A Possibly.
3 Q You testified, in answer to one of Mr. Grossman's 4 questions, that -- that you thought they would be 5 terminated if they testified that they deliberately 6 overlooked a -- a defect.
7 Do you recall that?
8 A Yes.
9 Q Now, I asked you earlier this morning whether or not you 10 had over -- ever purposely overlooked a defect during 11 either your document review days or when you were an
. 12 inspector in the field and I believe your answer was no.
4 13 Do you recall that testimony?
14 A Yes; not to my knowledge.
15 Q Yes.
16 Well, I -- I'm talking about knowingly doing it,
- 17 deliberately.
18 And you said no; is that correct?
- 19 A Correct. <.
i 20 Q And that's still your testimony right now?
21 A (Indicating . )
22 Q Now, you understand that you are under oath, do you, Mr.
23 Gorman?
24 A Yes.
() 25 JUDGE COLE: Mr. Gorman, the question before Sonntag Reporting Service, Ltd.
Geneva, Illinois 60134 (312) 232-0262
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.(
1 last, you just nodded your head.
2 That might not come across in the transcript. You 3 have to answer yes or no.
4 THE WITNESS: Okay.
t 5 Yes.
6 MR. GALLO: Okay. Let's start it again.
7 BY MR. GALLO:
8 Q Do you recall your earlier testimony that you had not 9 knowingly overlooked a defect during your document 10 review days in the vault or when you were inspecting in 11 the field?
12 Do you recall that testimony?
13 A Yes.
14 Q And you said no?
15 A To the best of my knowledge, yes.
16 Q Right.
17 And is that your testimony right this instant?
18 A Yes.
19 Q Now, are -- are you giving me that answer because you 20 fear that you are going to be fired or because you 21 believe it to be true?
22 A I believe it to be true, sir.
23 0 What do you think would happen to a supervisor if it was 24 disclosed in these hearings that he had urged and
() 25 pressed QC Inspectors to overlook quality in favor of Sonntag Reporting Service, Ltd.
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- l. quantity?
2 Do you think he would be fired.
3 A I can't answer that question. I'm not in that position 4 to say whether the guy would be fired or not. -
5 Q You don't know?
6 A I don't know.
7 Q Do you know what happened to Mr. Saklak?
8 A I've heard several stories on what has happened to him.
9 Q Are you aware he was fired?
10 A No, sir. I was aware that he was laid off until further 11 investigation of the allegations against him.
12 Q Has he -- has he returned to the site to work?
13 A I don't know.
14 Not -- to my knowledge, I haven't seen him.
15 (Indicating.)
16 MR. GALLO: I have no further questions.
17 JUDGE GROSSMAN: By the way, just to clarify 18 the record, I think, in response to that question I 19 asked, rather than the witness saying he didn't know, I 20 believe he said that he didn't think so.
21 MR. GALLO: That's right.
22 JUDGE GROSSMAN: And so I apologize for 23 putting the wrong answer. My recollection was wrong at 24 the time.
() 25 Mr. Cassel.
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(_N/
1 RECROSS EXAMINATION 2 BY MR. CASSEL:
3 0 Mr. Gorman, when we were earlier discussing the 1,166 4 welds on one report document, Judge Grossman pointed out 5 that there were two concerns raised in the letter that 6 Mr. Asmussen wrote about that; one being the number of 7 inspections and the other being the fact that there were 8 no defects found.
9 And then Mr. Gallo showed you Intervenors' Exhibit 10 19, indicating on one inspection report that Mr. DeWald 11 had reviewed 551 welds.
12 Can you tell, Mr. Gorman, from that inspection
(~)
\_/
13 report, whether Mr. DeWald found any defects in the 551 14 welds he inspected?
15 A I'd rather not say, because I'm not a Weld Inspector and 16 I don't know. I can't tell by looking.
17 As far as the checklist, it looks like he accepted 18 everything.
19 0 So he found -- perhaps I asked the question wrong.
20 Can you tell from that inspection checklist whether 21 Mr. DeWald accepted every one of the 551 welds?
22 A I would say yes.
23 0 Is there anything on there that indicates that he 24 rejected even a single one of the 551 welds?
()
25 A No, sir.
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1 Q Now, if you don't have enough knowledge to answer this 2 question, Mr. Gorman, just please feel free to say so. ;
3 But do you know whether it is reasonable to expect 4 551 welds and not find a single one that's rejectable?
5 A I have no knowledge of that. I'm not a Weld Inspector 6 and I couldn't make that determination.
7 Q In the letter from Mr. Asmussen in Intervenors' Exhibit 8 18, Mr. Asmussen atated -- and let me show you the 9 letter again -- with respect to the 1,166 welds, "I 10 cannot accept a zero percent reject rate for that many 11 welds inspected."
12 (Indicating.)
13 Do you have any basis or expertise sufficient to 14 agree or disagree with that statement by Mr. Asmussen?
15 A He's pertaining -- he's speaking basically about 16 welding, and I know nothing about welding, so I can't 17 make any judgment on that at all.
18 Q Okay. Now, I believe Mr. Gallo asked you whether Mr.
19 DeWald had ever said anything about receiving pressure 20 from CECO, and I believe you answered that you -- you 21 didn't recall him saying anything about that?
22 A No.
23 Q With reference to the mass meetings that occurred on 24 Friday afternoons, do you recall Mr. DeWald ever saying
() 25 that, with reference to getting the work done, that CECO Sonntag Reporting Service. Ltd.
Geneva, Illinois 60134 (312) 232-0262
5885 1 wanted to make sure that more work was done?
2 A No.
3 0 Is it possible that he said something like that and you 4 just don't remember it?
5 A I don' t know. I don't think so. I don't ever recall 6 it.
7 (Indicating.)
8 I wasn't at every meeting. There was days that I 9 missed.
10 It could have happened, it may not have.
11 (Indicating.)
4
(-)
U 12 Q Miss Chan asked you, when you went to the NRC in March 13 of 1985, whether you were aware if you could be fired
. 14 for going to the NRC, and you answered that you weren't 15 really sure.
16 At the time you went to the NRC, did you know --
17 had you known an individual named John Seeders?
18 A Yes.
19 Q Were you aware that John Seeders had previously gone to i 20 the NRC?
21 A I'm not sure if I was aware or I had heard through shop 22 talk that he had written a letter to the NRC; one or the 23 other.
24 Q And regardless of whether you knew it or had heard it
() 25 through shop talk, were you aware of what happened to Sonntag Reporting Service, Ltd.
' Geneva, Illinois 60134 (312) 232-0262
. 5886 1 Mr. Seeders after he went to the NRC?
2 A Yes, sir.
3 Q And what was that?
4 A He was transferred out of the QC Inspector group.
5 Q Now, at the time you went to the NRC in March of 1985, 6 were you -- were you -- had you also known an individual 7 named Worley Puckett?
8 A I don't specifically remember when Mr. Puckett was there 9 on site. He was on there for a limited period of time.
10 I did know the individual, yes, when he was there.
11 Q And did you know whether or not Mr. Puckett had made any 12 complaint to the NRC?
13 A No, sir.
14 Q Had you heard shop ta.1k to that effect?
t i 15 A I had heard that -- he had made complaints to management I
16 is all I knew, had knowledge of.
- 17 0 And did you know what happened to Mr. Puckett after he 18 made those complaints?
l 19 MR. GALLO: Objection; form of the question.
! 20 It's vague. In particular, the reference to "those 1 21 complaints."
22 Does counsel mean those complaints to Comstock 23 management?
24 MR. CASSEL: They are the complaints.
l '
O 2s 30o08 oaossa^ni ra e' wa e ene wita -
l Sonntag_ Rep _orting Service, Ltd.
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O 1 testified to.
2 overruled.
3 BY MR. CASSEL:
4 Q Do you know what happened to Mr. Puckett after he made 5 his complaints to management, whether he remained on 6 site or in the employ of Comstock?
7 A He was terminated from Comstock.
8 If it was for those specific reasons, I don't know, 9 because he complained to the NRC.
10 There was rumors going around that he had flunked 11 his test, that he wasn't qualified.
12 (Indicating.)
u 13 0 Were there also rumors and shop talk that he was fired 14 for complaining?
15 A Yes, I believe there was.
16 0 Now, Miss Chan asked you some questions about what it 17 was that Mr. DeWald asked you to do when he gave you 18 deadlines that you regarded as inflexible or 19 unreasonable, and one example that she asked you about 20 was where he would ask you to look for a particular 21 document and find it by a certain date.
22 Was that the only kind of task Mr. DeWald ever 23 asked you to do with a deadline or were there other 24 kinds of tasks as well?
() 25 A Mainly being in the vault as the Lead, yes, that's --
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)
1 all it concerned was documents within the vault that he 2 needed information on or something that he needed by a 3 specific date. +
4 Q Did it sometimes involve more than one document?
5 A Yes.
6 Q Mr. Gallo asked you a number of questions about Page 66 7 of your deposition testimony, Mr. Gorman.
8 One of the questions and answers on Page 66 appears 9 at Lines 14 through 16, and the question is.
10 "And those were people who were training you that 11 were telling you that they got pushed," and the answer 12 is, "Some individuals, yeah; not all."
13 If you were asked this same question today, would 14 your answer be the same?
15 And if that's not clear to you, I'll -- I'll 16 rephrase the question.
17 A I probably wouldn't say some individuals. It's kind of 18 a generalization.
19 I can't really recall any specific instances except 20 with Danny Holley that this happened.
21 When I say "some individuals," I trained with 22 several people, and I can't remember everything that was 23 said with those individuals.
24 (Indicating.)
,( ) 25 MR. CASSEL: I have no further questions.
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U 1 JUDGE GROSSMAN: Miss Chan.
2 MS. CHAN: Staff would like to move Staff 3 Exhibit 4 into evidence at this time.
4 JUDGE GROSSMAN: Any objections?
5 MR. GALLO: No objection.
6 MR. CASSEL: No objection.
7 JUDGE GROSSMAN: Received.
8 (The document was thereupon received into 9 evidence as Staff Exhibit No. 4.)
10 MS. CHAN: I have one question for Mr.
11 Gorman.
12 RECROSS EXAMINATION 13 BY MS. CHAN:
14 Q Mr. Gorman, do you have any personal knowledge of Mr.
15 Seeders' visit to the NRC?
16 A No, ma'am.
17 Q Do you have any personal knowledge of the reasons why l 18 Mr. Seeders was transferred?
.19 A No, ma'am.
20 MS. CHAN: Thank you, i 21 A (Continuing.) Only hearsay, shop talk.
( 22 MS. CHAN: Thank you.
23 JUDGE GROSSMAN: Mr. Gallo, within the scope l
j 24 of.
() 25 MR. GALLO: Yes, your Honor.
l 1
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5890 (G_)
1 REDIRECT EXAMINATION 2 (Continued) 3 BY MR. GALLO:
4 Q Was some of the shop talk you heard with respect to Mr.
5 Seeders' transfer to the effect that he was not 6 qualified for his job? Did you hear that?
7 A No, sir.
8 Q Did ycu hear that, as part of that shop talk, that he 9 had messed up the records for the -- in the calibration 10 area?
11 A Yes, sir.
12 MR. GALLO: No further questions.
13 JUDGE GROSSMAN: Anything further, Mr.
14 Cassel?
15 MR. CASSEL: No, Judge.
16 JUDGE GROSSMAN: Staff?
17 MS. CHAN: No further questions.
18 JUDGE GROSSMAN: Thank you, Mr. Gorman.
19 You are excused. Thank you very much for 20 testifying.
21 THE WITNESS: You are welcome.
22 MR. MILLER: The usual instruction, your 23 Honor?
- 24 JUDGE GROSSMAN
- Oh, yes.
() 25 Please don't discuss the testimony with anyone Sonntaq Reporting Service, Ltd.
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.\-)
l else.
2 THE WITNESS: Yes, sir.
3 JUDGE GROSSMAN: Fine.
4 Okay.
5 JUDGE COLE: Thank you very much.
6 (Witness excused.)
7 MR. GALLO: Can we have 10 minutes before the 8 next witness?
9 JUDGE GROSSMAN: Sure.
10 (WHEREUPON, a recess was had, after which 11 the hearing was resumed as follows:)
7- 12 JUDGE GROSSMAN: We're back in session.
V) 13 Ms. Kezelis, would you call your next witness, 14 please.
15 MS. KEZELIS: Thank you, Judge Grossman.
16 The Applicant calls, pursuant to subpoena, Mr. Dean 17 Peterson to testify.
18 JUDGE GROSSMAN: Okay. Mr. Peterson, would 19 you stand, please, and raise your right hand.
20 (The witness was thereupon duly sworn.)
21 JUDGE GROSSMAN: Please be seated.
22 MS. KEZELIS: Mr. Peterson, my name is Elena 23 Kezelis. I'm one of the attorneys for Commonwealth 24 Edison Company in this proceeding.
() 25 DEAN LE VERNE PETERSON i Sonntag Reporting Service, Ltd.
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1 called as a witness by the Applicant herein, having been 2 first duly sworn, was examined and testified as follows:
3 DIRECT EXAMINATION 4 BY MS. KEZELIS:
5 Q Would you state your full name for the record, please, 6 and spell your last name?
7 A Dean LeVerne Peterson, P-E-T-E-R-S-O-N.
8 MS. KEZELIS: Mr. Peterson, to my left is Mr.
9 Bob Guild, who represents the Intervenors in this 10 proceeding; to my far right is the NRC Staff Counsel, 11 Ms. Elaine Chan; and seated across from me are the three es 12 judges of the Licensing Board in this proceeding.
b 13 BY MS. KEZELIS:
14 Q By whom are you currently employed, sir?
15 A BESTCO.
16 Q And that is at the Braidwood Station; is that correct?
17 A Yes.
18 Q And in what capacity are you employed by BESTCO?
19 A Quality Control Inspector.
20 Q Okay. Have you attained a particular level in that 21 capacity?
22 A I currently work as a Level II Welding Inspector, 23 Raceway Inspector and Concrete Expansion Anchor 24 Inspector.
() 25 Q Have you been dispatched by BESTCO to perform Sonntaa Reportino Service, Ltd.
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1 inspections for any particular contractor at Braidwood?
2 A I'm currently working for Newberg.
3 Q How long ago did you start working for Newberg?
4 A Approximately December 14th last year, 1985.
5 Q Okay. And the areas of certification that you just 6 described are those at Newberg; is that correct?
7 A Correct.
8 JUDGE COLE: Excuse me.
9 Mr. Peterson, could you put the microphone on, 10 please?
11 BY MS. KEZELIS:
gg 12 Q Prior to the -- well, when were you first employed by V BESTCO, if you recall?
13 14 A Somewhere around July 24, 1984.
15 Q All right. Does 1985 sound more possible than 1984?
16 A I'm sorry.
17 '85, yes.
18 0 Okay. And prior to the time of your employment with 19 BESTCO, by whom were you employed?
20 A Comstock.
l 21 Q And when were you first employed by Comstock?
22 A Give or take a couple days, December 12, 1983.
23 0 Was that at Braidwood Station as well?
24 A Correct.
() 25 Q Okay. Prior to your employment by Comstock at Sonntag Reporting Service, Ltd.
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1 Braidwood, can you describe for us briefly what your 2 employment history had been?
3 A For approximately seven, eight years, I had worked for 4 two different independent testing labs as a Level II 5 Radiographer, Mag Material Inspector and Die Penetrant 6 Inspector.
7 Q That was seven to eight years; is that correct?
8 A Yes.
9 Q Can you describe for us what the nature of those 10 inspections consisted of?
11 A Well, it. varied quite a bit.
12 Being that I worked for an independent lab, we went 13 to many different local construction sites.
14 I worked on many different projects: Coal plants, 15 oil plants, tanks, water towers.
16 Most of my work consisted of X-raying welds.
17 Q Were any of the sites that you visited nuclear-related?
18 A Just once I went to the Genoa Station in La Crosse, 19 Wisconsin.
20 Q During the course of your employment by Comstock at 21 Braidwood during the period of December, '83, through 22 July or so of 1985, was there any particular area in 23 which you performed the majority of your inspections?
24 A Weld inspections.
() 25 0 Weld inspections.
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()
1 Can you roughly estimate what percentage of your 2 time was occupied with weld inspections?
3 A Approximately 70, 80 percent, I'd say.
4 Q Let me direct your attention now, Mr. Peterson, to the 5 events of March 29, 1985.
6 I'll represent to you that that's the day that a
- 7 group of QC Inspectors from Comstock visited the NRC.
8 You were one of the inspectors who visited the NRC; 9 correct?
10 A Correct.
11 0 All right. And you were in the group that went over 12 during the noontime hour --
13 A Correct.
14 0 -- is that correct?
15 How did you first learn that a group of inspectors 16 was going to be visiting the NRC on that date?
17 A A fellow inspector, whom I can't remember, had said 18 that -- had explained the incident with Rich Snyder, and 19 had stated that the NRC had said if anybody else had any 20 concerns or wanted to go over there to say anything else 21 about Saklak or anything else going on, that they would 22 like them to go over at that time.
23 0 But you can't recall at this time who the inspector was 24 who told you about it?
()
25 A No, I can't.
Sonntag Reporting Service, Ltd.
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5896 th 1 Q What was your personal reason, sir, for visiting the NRC 2 on that date?
3 A Part of the reason was to show support for Rich Snyder 4 having gone over there and another part was because I 5 had myself been a witness to the intimidation done -- by 6 Rick Saklak done to another inspector.
7 JUDGE GROSSMAN: Excuse me.
8 Ms. Kezelis, you are not expecting to conclude your 9 direct today, are you?
10 MS. KEZELIS: Oh, I think there's a chance I 11 will, yes.
12 JUDGE GROSSMAN: Continue.
13 MS. KEZELIS: Is there a problem with that?
14 JUDGE GROSSMAN: And you are not prepared to 15 cross-examine; is that correct, Mr. Guild?
16 MR. GUILD: No, sir, I'm not.
17 JUDGE GROSSMAN: It's not a problem.
18 It's just an eventuality that we hadn't considered; 19 but continue.
20 MS. KEZELIS: Excuse me, Judge Grossman.
21 I believe I had understood that yesterday there was 22 an agreement that if Mr. Guild was capable, he would 23 conduct his cross examination tomorrow morning. That 24 was the understanding that I had had.
() 25 And in the event I finish much before 5:00 P. M.,
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v 1 then obviously we can break at that point and Mr. Guild 2 can use the remainder of the day to prepare for tomorrow 3 morning.
4 JUDGE GROSSMAN: That was not my 5 understanding.
6 But is that okay with you, Mr. Guild?
7 MR. GUILD: I think Mr. Miller browbeat me 8 into accepting that I would make my best effort to be 9 prepared in the morning.
10 JUDGE GROSSMAN: Okay. That's fine.
11 I wasn't party to that understanding.
12 MR. GUILD: And I said I would do so, Judge.
(-
13 I have not had a chance to complete Mr. Peterson's 14 deposition at this point.
15 I have no objection to going forward with Edison's 16 direct questioning under the circumstances; and as I 17 said, I would burn the oil tonight.
18 JUDGE GROSSMAN: The understanding I had was 19 you weren't decided as to whether you could --
20 MR. GUILD: That's true.
21 JUDGE GROSSMAN: -- cross.
22 MR. GUILD: That's true.
23 JUDGE GROSSMAN: But now you are saying that 24 if the direct is concluded this afternoon, that you will 25 go ahead with cross tomorrow morning?
(])
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(G 1 MR. GUILD: Well, I'm still not decided.
2 I told Mr. Miller I'd make my best effort. . That 3 was what I had assured him privately; and if the Board 4 directs me to, of course, I will go forward when my turn 5 comes.
6 JUDGE GROSSMAN: Okay, fine.
7 Continue, Ms. Kezelis.
8 MS. KEZELIS: Thank you.
t 9 BY MS. KEZELIS:
10 0 Do you recall if it was Mr. Snyder who might have told 11 you what had transpired that would cause the inspectors i 12 to visit the NRC on that date?
13 A No, it wasn't.
14 Q It wasn't Mr. Snyder?
1 15 A No.
I j 16 Q Okay. Do you recall if it was Mr. Bossong?
17 A No, it wasn't.
18 Q Okay.
19 JUDGE GROSSMAN: Excuse me.
i 20 It was or it wasn't?
21 THE WITNESS: It was not.
22 MS. KEZELIS: It was not.
23 BY MS. KEZELIS:
24 Q Do you recall whether it was an individual who had --
() 25 who told you that he himself had witnessed the incident Sonntag_ Reporting service. Ltd.
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't 1 between Mr. Snyder and Mr. Saklak?
2 A To be perfectly honest, I can't -- I really don't 3 remember.
4 It was awhile ago. I have no idea.
5 You could list everybody's name there and-I would 6 keep saying no.
7 0 okay. In other words, I have exhausted your 8 recollection as to that particular discussion?
9 A I can't remember who it was. I just went.
10 0 Another reason that you testified about a few moments as 11 your reason for visiting the NRC on that date was that 12 you had yourself witnessed an incident regarding Mr.
13 Saklak; is that correct?
14 A Correct.
15 Q All right. Can you descibe for us what, in fact, you 16 had witnessed?
17 A As I had stated in the Chicago hearings, Rick Saklak had 18 asked Mike Mustered to sign off an ICR. Mustered said 19 he wasn't able to do that because there apparently 20 hadn't been a proper ECN or a drawing rev or whatever 21 issued in order to -- for Mike to accept this item.
22 I'm not sure what the item was. I don't know.
23 Saklak told Mustered that they had had a meeting 24 with S & L; that the matter was going to be resolved;
() 25 just go ahead and sign off the ICR.
Sonntag Reporting Service, Ltd.
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.s i ,
- l' To the best of my recollection, Mustered told him,
-2 - well, more or less, "Just because you had a meeting 13 doesn't really mean anything. I have to see something
~
4 inblacpandwhite." Then Saklak told Mustered, "Well, 5 there shouldn't be a problem. .They will get it taken
- - s6, ,, , care of. Just go ahead and sign it off."
'7 Mike continued to tell him no, and the more he said 8
no, the -- the madder that Rick Saklak got.
' ^
9 Finally, it just ended up where Saklak was just --
10 well, was looking down at him -- pointing his finger 11 -
down at him and saying, "Just sign it off, sign it off, 12 ( oign it off," to which Mike responded -- to the best of 13 my recollection, he stated to Saklak, "Well, if that's 1,4 ,.
how you feel, why don'.t you sign it off," being that 15 Saklak was the supervisor at the time. Saklak responded 16 that, "Well, I can't because I'm not certified in that 17 area." Mike merely said, "I rest my case," and walked
^
18 out the door.
s 19 (Indica ting . )
'20 Q And you witnessed the entirety of this incident; is that s
21 correct?
'22 A Yeah.
23 Q Did you talk to Mr. Mustered about it afterwards?
24' A Yes, I did.
) 25 Q All right. Can you describe for us what the substance Sonntaa Reportina Service, Ltd.
') Geneva', Illinois 60134
~(312) 232-0262
I 5901 1 of your conversation with him was?
2 A Basically, I just told Mike that, you know, I was a 3 witness to it.
4 There were other people in the room at the time. I 5 felt other people had thought it was just a joke. To me 6 it was not a joke. I didn't appreciate Saklak's 1 behavior at all; and I just let Mike know that, you 8 know, if he needed a witness or support, that I would be 9 willing to do so.
10 (Indicating.)
11 Q What was Mr. Mustered's reaction to what you have just 12 testified about?
13 A We didn't talk at length on it. He just said, "Well, 14 that's good to hear," or whatever, and that was about l 15 it, really.
16 Q One of the statements you made just a few moments ago is 17 that some people regarded it as a joke.
18 Do you recall saying that?
I 19 A Yeah. 1 20 0 All right. Who, in your understanding, regarded that 21 incident as a joke?
22 A I'll tell you people that were there.
23 I'm not going to make assumptions as far as name
(
! 24 wise.
l
() 25 Q Well, start with --
i-l Sonntag Reporting Service, Ltd.
l Geneva, Illinois 60134 (312) 232-0262
.. . - - - - -- . . .. - - . _ . . = = _ - _ . = . . . - . . -
5902 i
l ) l s
1 A Let's say at the time there were certain people ;
2 laughing.
i 3 I can't say exactly -- remember exactly who was
~4 laughing. I just remember there were some people there.
5 Q Okay.
6 A I'm not going to say who was laughing or who wasn't.
1 7 Q Is that because you can't recall at this point?
8 A Not accurately, no.
9 Q Okay. Would you identify for us who was there?
10 A There were a gentleman there by the name of Mike 11 Lechner, Dave Soberski, Bob Tuite.
s 12 That's all I can remember offhand right now.
13 It was awhile ago.
'14 Q Okay. Do you recall approximately when this incident l
15 took_ place?
16 A No, I don't.
17 Q All right. In relationship to your visit to the NRC on f 18 March 29, 1985, can you pinpoint roughly how far in 19 advance of that date that the incident had taken place?
! t. 20 A All I can say is it had to be that -- they had a fire
. 21 at -- in the QC office at one time. We had to move into 22 the building, the Leads, and I was a Lead at the time.
23 The Leads had moved into the Aux Building at that 24 time.into a certain room, and we were in that room at
() 12 5 that time.
Sonntag Reporting Service. Ltd.
Geneva, Illinois 60134 (312) 232-0262
5903
(~T v'
1 So some time between the fire and March.
2 Q Okay,. Did you say that you were a Lead at that time?
3 A I think at that time I was, yeah.
4 Q Okay.
5 A Well, I'm -- I was a Lead at that time, yeah.
6 Q Okay, all right.
7 Had you witnessed any other incident with respect 8 to Mr. Saklak other than the one you have just testified 9 about involving Mr. Mustered?
10 A None that I can recall right now.
11 Q Okay. You testified that those were the two reasons why 12 you went to the NRC on March 29, 1985.
(-]
v 13 During the course of your visit, did you have an 14 opportunity to make any statements yourself?
15 A Yes, I did.
16 Q All right. And did you identify these two concerns to 17 the NRC as you have identified them to us today?
18 A Well, I didn't actually say, you know, "I'm here in 19 support of Rich Snyder," or anything like that.
20 I did identify the situation with Saklak and Mike 21 Mustered.
22 Q Okay. Do you recall any other statements that you might 23 have made to the NRC on that date?
24 A I -- there were -- there was something else I had said.
() 25 I believe it was concerning -- it was concerning the Sonntag Reporting Service, Ltd.
Geneva, Illinois 60134 (312) 232-0262
5904 O
1 amount of work that was being done and how our -- our --
2 our Leads at the time and supervisor were -- how shall I 3 say -- pushing us as to the amount of -- quantity of 4 work we were doing.
5 Q So you were not a Lead at that time; is that correct?
6 A Correct.
7 Q Do you recall at what point you no longer became a Lead?
8 A Not really.
9 I was only a Lead for about a couple months. It 10 was more like a fill-in-type thing.
11 You know, it was like I walked in one day and they 12 needed somebody to take care of a certain thing, and 13 then it was over -- after awhile it was over and then I 14 just went to do my other stuff.
15 Q Okay. Can you be more specific about the statement you 16 just made regarding the amount of -- the quantity of 17 work that your Leads were asking you to do or having you 18 to do?
19 A Again, let me -- give me a second to recall here.
20 0 Okay.
21 A Okay. I was called into the room -- into a room by John 22 Walters, who was my Lead at the time, and Ken 23 Worthington, who was my supervisor at the time, and they 24 had talked to me that they were concerned about the
() 25 amount of work I was getting done.
Sonntaq Reporting Service, Ltd.
Geneva, Illinois 60134 (312) 232-0262
5905 1 They showed me a daily production sheet of 2 inspectors; that some inspectors were doing -- they 3 would flash those up and then they would -- they would 4 flash mine at me and said, "You are not getting near the 5 work that our" - "that the other people are done," and, 6 "I can't warrant overtime for this amount of work,"
7 something to that effect.
8 (Indicating.)
9 At that time I tried to explain to them -- once 10 again, I should add -- tried to explain to them I was 11 taking quite a bit of time trying to get paint off the
, 12 welds, and that if -- if the weld had been cleaned 13 effectively, that my production would probably have at 14 least doubled, at least.
15 (Indicating . )
16 Q Now, do you recall when this incident took place?
17 A I can't give you an exact date on that, no.
18 Q All right. It was some time before your visit to the 19 NRC on March 29, 1985; is that correct?
20 A Right.
21 Q Okay. Do you recall approximately when -- and let me 22 set this out for you so we might be able to pinpoint 23 better when this took place.
24 Do you recall approximately when Quality First
() 25 conducted its site-wide interviews of QC Inspectors?
Sonntag Reporting Service, Ltd.
Geneva, Illinois 60134 (312) 232-0262
5906 (2) 1 A I couldn't even give you a month on that.
2 Q All right. Do you recall that you participated in 3 that --
4 A Yes. i 5 0 -- process?
6 All right. If I represent to you that that took 7 place some time between February and the middle of March 8 of 1985, does that help pinpoint when this incident 9 would have taken place?
10 Well, let me try it another way; and I'll withdraw 11 the prior question.
12 Do you recall whether this incident took place 13 before you went through the interview process with 14 Quality First or after?
15 A I'm sorry. I can't recall.
16 Q All right, all right. .
i 17 Do you recall whether the incident took place some 18 time in 1985?
- 19. A I believe it did.
20 Q Okay. Do you recall whether it took place some time 21 after the union vote in November of 1984?
22 A I'm pretty sure it did happen after that.
23 0 Okay. You said that you had explained to them again or l 24 that you tried to explain again that there was paint on
() 25 the welds that you were inspecting?
Sonntag Reporting Service. Ltd.
Geneva, Illinois 60134 (312) 232-0262
,-yy _ _ _ . _ , _ - , . , , _ - . . . _ , . , - . , . , , - - _ _ _ _ - - , . - , , , , , , . _ . - . , _ , _ = . -._r -. - - - - - _ , _ - -
5907
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1 A Correct. l 1
2 Q Had you made such a statement to your Lead or your l l
3 supervisor or both before this incident?
4 A Yeah. As a matter of fact, we all had, all the 5 inspectors; and they had -- they did have a team of 6 people that were working ahead of us cleaning the paint 7 off, so there was an effort being made to take all the 8 paint off the welds.
9 Unfortunately, the type of welds that I was looking 10 at was on a galvanized area, and with a galvanized spray 11 paint, depending on how you shine the flashlight on the 12 weld will depend on whether or not you see the paint.
13 There are certain areas we worked in where you 14 could shine a flashlight directly at the weld and not 15 see any paint, and then you hold the flashlight sideways 16 to the weld and then you would see the paint in what 17 they call the toe of the weld.
18 Q The toe, T-O-E, of the weld?
19 A Yes.
20 And that was -- where I was having my major problem 21 was digging all the paint out of there.
22 (Indicating.)
23 Q All right. Would you explain for us, please, what the 24 significance is of having paint on a weld, in the first
() 25 place, in terms of performing your inspection?
Sonntag Reporting Service, Ltd.
Geneva, Illinois 60134 (312) 232-0262
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<~
l A Well, you can't do an accurate visual inspection of a 2 weld when there's paint on it, because this could be 3 covering up certain discontinuities.
4 Q You can't; is that correct?
5 A Correct.
6 0 Okay. Is that something that's pretty well known --
7 A Yes.
8 0 -- among the welding inspector work force?
9 A I hope so, I hope so, yes.
10 0 Is there any requirement on the Form 19's to identify 11 the condition of the weld with respect to paint or 12 covering up the discontinuities? -
13 A Yeah, I believe it was. One of the first items on the 14 Comstock Form 19's was asked that the -- the -- the weld 15 were covered with -- free of form material or paint or 16 something to that effect.
17 Q Okay. Let's return to the -- this incident.
18 How did it come to be that you had to explain to --
19 well, first of all, the first time that you brought up 20 this problem of paint on welds, was it to Mr. Walters or 21 Mr. Worthington or both?
22 A I would have to assume that it was Mr. Walters, since he 23 was my Lead and I would go-to him first.
24 Q All right. And you -- how did the first such discussion
() 25 about this situation take place, come about?
Sonntag Reportino Service, Ltd.
Geneva, Illinois 60134 (312) 232-0262
r 5909 1 Did you go to him or did he come to you?
2 A I don't really recall.
3 I just know that I was daily finding problems with 4 trying to find welds that were totally clean, and I just 5 mentioned to him that, you know, maybe he could see to 6 it that they had tried to do a little better job of 7 cleaning up the welds or use flashlights after they 8 cleaned them to make sure they had gotten them all 9 clean.
10 See, the problem was they were cable pan welds, and 11 some of them were fairly hard to get to when you had 12 pane above and below you, and if people would reach in 13 there, cleaning them off, they thought they had them 14 clean, you know, but they weren't looking at them real 15 closely to make sure they were clean.
16 (Indicating.)
17 Q Okay. With respect to the specific incident that you 18 described for us a few minutes ago when Mr. Walters and 19 Mr. Worthington flashed individuals' work at you and 20 then flashed yours at you, what was it that they were 21 flashing?
22 A Daily production sheets.
23 Q Okay. Are you referring to the status sheets handed in 24 by individual inspectors?
() 25 A Yes.
Sonntag Reporting Service, Ltd.
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r 5910
(
l Q All right. Had you -- well, could you identify that, in 2 fact, one of yours was being shown to you?
3 A To the best of my memory, he -- Worthington showed me 4 somebody else's sheet -- I don't know whose --
5 0 Okay.
6 A -- and then he just -- I believe he showed me mine.
7 0 Okay.
8 A You know, it was just done, you know, like in a matter 9 of five seconds.
10 Q All right. And this sheet has -- is a form, is it not?
11 A Correct.
. 12 Q And the more filled out it is is reflective of the 13 number of inspections --
14 A Correct.
15 0 -- is that correct? ;
16 Okay. So you saw one that had more material filled 17 out on it?
18 A Correct.
19 Q And then you saw what you thought was -- was yours, 20 perhaps?
21 A Yes.
22 0 Which had less filled out on it --
23 A Yes.
l 24 Q -- is that correct?
l
() 25 Okay. When he flashed the more-fil' led-out form, I
l Sonntaa ReDortina Service, Ltd.
Geneva, Illinois 60134 (312) 232-0262
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1 did he give you an opportunity to see who the inspector 2 was who had handed that one in?
3 A No. It was -- like I say, it was done in a matter'of 4 seconds, so I --
5 Q Okay, okay.
6 A I mean, it didn't matter to me, because I knew there 7 were a few other guys that were getting more done than 8 me.
9 Q How would you characterize the speediness or slowness 10 with which you were performing inspections at that time?
11 A I really don't understand how you mean that.
~
12 Q Okay. How would you characterize -- you yourself now, 13 Mr. Peterson, characterize how fast or how slow you were 14 in performing your own inspections during that time 15 period?
16 A Due to the amount of time I had to spend to take the 17 paint out -- off the welds, I would say it was a very 18 low amount of work compared to what I could have done 19 had the welds be cleaned.
20 Q Had the welds been cleaned?
21 A Yes.
l 22 0 You can't inspect a weld if it's painted, can you?
23 A Right.
I 24 Q What was Mr. Walters', or Mr. Worthington's reaction,
() 25 for that matter, when you explained to them.that there f
Sonntag Reporting Service, Ltd.
i Geneva, Illinois 60134 (312) 232-0262
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r' 5912 g
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1 was paint on the welds that you had been sent out to 2 inspect?
3 A I guess, to the best of my recollection, they had merely 4 said that they had gone out, looked at some, and they 5 didn't think they looked that bad.
6 0 Okay. Did you explain to them what you have just 7 explained to us about the angle in which you hold a 8 flashlight as making a difference?
9 A I can't remember if I did or not.
10 I probably did, but I -- I can't say I did.
11 Q Did either of them give you any impression or 12 understanding, by wh3'c they said or how they acted, that 13 they wanted you to accept painted welds?
14 A No.
) 15 Q Okay. Did either of them give you any impression or 16 understanding, by either word or action, that they 17 wanted you to ignore, in any respect, the paint on the 18 welds?
19 A No.
20 Q Okay. How, if at all, did that incident affect the 21 manner in which you performed your weld inspections 22 thereafter?
23 A None at all.
24 Q All right. Did it affect in any respect the time that
() 25 you took on each individual inspection thereafter?
Sonntaa Reportina Service, Ltd.
Geneva, Illinois 60134 (312) 232-0262
5913 1 A Not really.
2 I just did my job. I just did it the way I felt I 3 should do it and --
4 Q All right. Did you continue to run into problems 5 thereafter with paint on welds?
6 A For -- during the duration of that project, it was --
7 they had a different grcup of people doing it.
8 That was the main thing until -- I would say until 9 the end of that project, yeah.
10 0 All right.
11 A Till I was involved -- till I was moved to another area.
f- 12 0 Okay. And what was your practice typically when you V 13 came upon a weld that you were to inspect that had paint 14 on it?
15 A I -- I had a small pick-like item and -- and a small 16 wire brush, and I would use the wire brush to clean the 17 cover of the weld and -- and take the pick in the toe of 18 the weld and try to pick out all the paint.
19 Q And you would then perform an inspection of it?
20 A Yes.
21 Q Do you have any understanding, Mr. Peterson, as to how 22 it came to be that you were assigned to perform an 23 inspection of welds that were painted when there was at 24 the same time a team going around cleaning off these 25 welds?
Sonntag Reporting Service, Ltd.
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f a 5914
(
l 1 A As I believe I stated before, they would go ahead of us 2 and take the paint off.
3 Sometimes they didn't do quite a complete job of ;
i 4 getting the paint off as what was needed to do the 5 inspection.
6 Q And this was a special project that you had been 7 assigned to; is that correct?
8 A Yes.
9 Q What was the nature of the project or did it have a 10 commonly known name?
11 A It was just commonly known as the cable pan holddown 12 weld project.
13 0 Who was supervising that project, if anybody in 14 particular was?
15 A The majority of it was Dave Soberski, and then after 16 some months John Walters took over the welding part of 17 it.
18 Q Did you have an opportunity to discuss with any of your 19 fellow inspectors who were performing the same types of i
l 20 inspections about the problems you had been running into 21 with paint on welds?
22 A I am sure I did, yes.
23 Q Okay. To the best of your recollection, were they 24 running into the same kind of problem?
25 A I can't really say, offhand. I don't know.
(])
' Sonntag Reporting Service, Ltd.
ueneva, Illinois 60174
- (312) 232-0262
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3 5915 U-.
1 Q You just don't recall at this point?
2 A Yes.
3 Q Okay. Do you have any reason to believe that any of 4 your fellow inspectors who were performing this type of 5 inspection work would disregard paint or accept a weld 6 that had paint on it?
7 A To the best of my knowledge, no.
8 Q You also testified that one of these two individuals --
9 and I don't recall right now whether it was Mr. Walters 10 or Mr. Worthington -- said that he could not warrant 11 overtime for you?
12 A Correct. It was Mr. Worthington.
Os 13 Q It was Mr. Worthington, okay.
14 Can you recall specifically what it was Mr.
15 Worthington said to you?
16 A Basically, just what you said.
17 Q Did he say it in a loud or threatening voice?
18 A No. We were just in normal conversation.
19 Q Had you been working overtime immediately prior to this 20 conversation with Mr. Walters and Mr. Worthington?
21 A I can't recall.
22 Q Do you recall whether immediately after that incident 23 you were working overtime?
24 A I can't recall.
(} 25 Q Do you recall whether you at any time thereafter worked Sonntag Reporting Service, Ltd.
Geneva, Illinois 60134 (312) 232-0262
r 5916 1 overtime?
2 A Well, yes, I have worked many hours overtime.
3 Q Did you have any understanding as to whether Mr.
4 Worthington had the authority to determine whether or 5 not you could work overtime?
6 A I believe he did, yes.
7 0 All right. What do you base that belief on?
8 A Well, being that he was supervisor and he did tell me 9 that they had, I guess, Wednesday overtime meetings and 10 that's when they decided what the overtime was going to 11 be and who would work it.
- 12 0 Okay. So in that time period, in other words, everyone
~#
13 wasn't working overtime; is that correct?
14 A Not everybody. There were some groups that were, 15 depending upon how hot of a project they were working 16 on.
17 Q Overtime, to the best of your understanding, appeared to 18 be assigned on the basis of needs in particular areas of 19 work?
20 A Yes.
21 Q All right. When Mr. Worthington made that statement to 22 you about overtime, did you feel threatened by it in any 23 respect?
24 A I felt pressured, I guess you could say.
25 It was quite obvious what he was saying.
({')
Sonntag Reporting Service, Ltd.
Geneva, 111in~6is 60174 (312) 232-0262 I
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5917 i
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1 Q What did you understand him to be saying?
2 A That if I wanted to assure myself of overtime in the 3 future, I should deliver more work.
4 Q Did that feeling of pressure itself cause you to become 5 more lax in your inspection work?
6 A Never, never.
7 Q You seem very confident in that?
8 A You bet.
9 Q Would you amplify, please?
10 A I --
11 MR. GUILD: Objection.
- 12 Ask a question directly. You just can't turn a 13 witness loose and say, "Tell us anything you want to 14 tell us."
15 THE WITNESS: I guess the reason why I --
16 MR. GUILD: Excuse me, Mr. Peterson.
17 I have an objection.
18 JUDGE GROSSMAN: I will let the witness 19 answer.
20 MS. KEZELIS: You may answer.
21 A I guess I am just saying that irregardless of all the 22 hassles and everything that went on there over the last 23 couple of years, I myself never let it affect my work.
24 BY MS. KEZELIS:
25 Do you take pride in your work?
(]) Q Sonntag Reporting Service, Ltd.
Geneva, Illinois 60134 (312) 232-0262
F-5918
("s U
1 A You bet. ,
2 Q Did Mr. Worthington give you at that time or at any 3 other time any indication that he expects you to perform 4 a certain number of inspections per day?
5 A No. That was really the only time we have ever had any 6 conflict that I can recall at this time.
7 0 Okay, okay. Did anybody within Comstock management or 8 supervision ever give you any impression that you were 9 expected to perform a certain number of inspections per 10 day?
11 A Well, nobody that would come right out and say you have
- 12 to do a set amount a day.
13 Even Comstock wasn't that stupid.
14 Q No one ever gave you a quota as to the amount of work 15 that you had to perform; is that correct?
16 A No, no.
17 Q Did you ever have an understanding that there was an 18 implied quota, even though nobody may have come out and 19 said -- have said one specifically?
20 A I can't -- no, I don't really want to say yes to that, l
21 because there is -- I don't want to confuse implied l 22 quota with merely an employer expecting you to do a l
23 day's work.
24 Q All right. Was your understanding as to any pressure i
i
() 25 that you did feel merely that of an employer expecting l
l Sonntag Reporting Service, Ltd.
Geneva, Illinois 60134 l (312) 232-0262 i
5919 O
1 his employees to give a day's work for a day's pay?
2 MR. GUILD: Objection.
3 Mr. Chairman, this is really leading beyond fair 4 proportions.
5 The witness, obviously, has an opinion. He should 6 be asked to state the opinion directly instead of having 7 the opinion supplied by counsel.
8 JUDGE GROSSMAN: Well, Ms. Kezelis, I have 9 heard that phrase used by you before and I think it is a 10 leading phrase. It suggests an answer and it's a little 11 too much like a jingle here.
-12 I think, you know, that it's possible to ask more O 13 neutral questions.
14 MS. KEZELIS: I do believe that the witness 15 initiated it himself; but what I propose to do is 16 withdraw that question and ask the Court Reporter to 17 read the last answer to me because I think that's where 18 I heard it.
19 JUDGE GROSSMAN: That's fine.
20 (The answer was thereupon read by the 21 Reporter.)
22 BY MS. KEZELIS:
l 23 Q Mr. Peterson, what did you mean when you used the term, 24 "an employer expecting an employee to do a day's work"?
l
() 25 A Well, merely that, you know, they are paying you a l Sonntag Reporting Service, Ltd.
Geneva, Illinois 60134 (312) 232-0262
5920 '
O 1 salary.
2 They, obviously, expect you to perform the function 3 that you are there for.
4 Q What was the understanding that you had of your 5 employer's expectations of you?
6 A That I was there to do weld inspections or whatever 7 other type of inspections that I was certified to do.
8 JUDGE GROSSMAN: Excuse me. You contrasted 9 an implied quota with a day's work.
10 Were you then saying that what was expected of you 11 was one or the other? If so, which one was it?
12 THE WITNESS: No. I am just saying it's easy 13 to confuse the two together.
14 JUDGE GROSSMAN: Oh, okay.
- 15 BY MS. KEZELIS:
16 Q Which one did you feel you were operating under?
17 A The majority of the time that they just expected you to f
l 18 do a day's work for a day's pay.
19 Q Okay. Now, let's move to the minority of the time.
20 What did you feel then?
21 A As far as that, I can't really give you any specifics.
22 I guess the only time I really had a problem with 23 them -- a real problem with them -- as far as amount of f 24 work was the situation we were talking about before with I
(} 25 the cable pan welds.
Sonntag Reporting Service, Ltd. _
ueneva, Illinois cu134 (312) 232-0262
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5921 1 Q The incident with Mr. Walters and Mr. Worthington and 2 yourself?
3 A Yes.
4 Q Okay. And that's the only thing that you can recall 5 that would fall within the minority of the time that we 6 just discussed?
7 A Offhand.
8 Q Or can you recall any others?
9 A Offhand, yeah.
10 0 Some time after your visit to the NRC on March 29, 1985, 11 you received a copy of an April 5th memo from the NRC 12 summarizing what your allegations and other inspectors' O. 13 had been; is that correct?
14 A I believe so, yes.
15 0 At this time I am going to be moving into some 16 potentially in-camera topics.
j 17 Mr. Peterson, let me show you what has been marked
- 18 and admitted into evidence as Intervenors' Exhibit 42-A l
19 for identification.
20 For the record, it's a copy of the unexpurgated 21 version of the April 5, 1985, memo from Mr. Weil to Mr.
l 22 Norelius.
j 23 Mr. Peterson, I will ask you to take a look at that 24 and tell me if you have seen that document before?
() 25 A Yes, I have.
Sonntag Reporting Service, Ltd.
l Geneva, Illinois 60131 (312) 232-0262
5922 f
1 As a matter of fact, now I remember. The day after 2 I received this, I went over to the NRC during my lunch 3 hour and explained to them that they had -- there were 4 two incorrect items in here.
5 0 All right.
6 A No. 1, they had my name wrong; and, No. 2, I was never 7 told that I would lose my job.
8 Q Are you referring to Page 2 of this document, Mr.
9 Peterson?
10 A Yes, the bottom paragraph, Page 2.
11 Q When you said that your name was wrong, what were you
-s 12 referring to?
13 A It says, " Gene Peterson," on the bottom there.
14 The person they are referring to is me, Dean 15 Peterson.
16 Q You understood that that paragraph under " Comment" was 17 to be attributed to you and was your statement, in 18 effect, but that the name was wrong; correct?
19 A Correct.
20 0 You identified a second item that was inaccurate to the 21 right of your name.
22 Can you explain to us more fully what that was?
23 A It states here that John Walters, Peterson's lead, and 24 Ken Worthington, Peterson's supervisor, told Peterson 25 that he would lose his job if he did not hurry up and
()
Sonntag Reporting Service, Ltd.
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5923
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1 produce more inspections.
2 That's totally incorrect. I never said that and I 3 went back to them immediately the next day, so that they 4 would change that, because I felt it was -- there is 5 quite a difference. That's quite an extreme case there.
6 Q Now, you just said that you never said that.
7 Did anybody ever make that threat to you at 8 Comstock?
9 A Never.
10 Q Okay.
11 A You would have heard about it before if they had.
12 Q Okay. Do you recall who you spoke to at the NRC about 13 that, the two inaccuracies that you have'just identified 14 to us?
15 A I know it wasn't Bob Shultz.
16 Q Would it have been Mr. McGregor?
17 A I believe. I am going off memory here but I believe it 18 was Mr. McGregor.
19 Q Would it have been one of the resident inspectors at 20 that time?
1 21 A Yes. I think at that time there were two of them, Mr.
22 Shultz and Mr. McGregor; and I think it was Mr.
23 McGregor.
24 Q Let's turn to Page 3, if you will, Mr. Peterson.
() 25 There are two additional paragraphs before we reach Sonntaa Reporting Service, Ltd.
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1 another name for attribution on Page 3 of this document.
2 Are the two top paragraphs also attributable to 3 you, sir?
4 A -Yes, they are.
5 0 All right. With respect to the first paragraph, can you 6 tell us, please, what you had in mind when you made that 7 allegation to the NRC?
8 A That paragraph is the one we had talked about previously 9 with Rick Saklak and 10 Q Okay. And the third paragraph also is attributable to 11 you?
12 A The one where it says, "Comstock wants us to work with 73 13 blinders on"?
14 Q Yes, sir.
15 A Yes, it is.
16 0 What did you mean when you made that allegation?
17 A Well, I would like to state that nobody at Comstock ever 18 told me that they expected that out of me.
19 I guess at the time it was just a summary of my 20 feelings as far as what the Comstock management was or 21 what they expected.
22 O What were your feelings at that time?
23 A That they wanted us to work with blinders on.
24 0 Can you explain to us --
l
() 25 A I am not trying to be smart here.
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-s 1 Q I understand. It's probably my questioning.
2 Can you explain to us, Mr. Peterson, what you meant 3 with respect to the term, " working with blinders on"?
4 A Okay. Well, I guess the thing is when you work for 5 somebody -- I believe at that time it had been a 6 year-and-a-half, right around there -- you form an 7 opinion of somebody; and when asked of an opinion, you 8 use summaries or examples and you can't always -- if 9 somebody says, "How come you feel this way or exactly 10 why did you come upon this opinion", you can't always 11 reach out and grab things out of the top of your head 12 and say, "This is exactly why, because this happened on O 13 such and such a date and this happened on such and such 14 a date."
15 It's a summary --
16 JUDGE GROSSMAN: Mr. Peterson, I think -- I 17 am sorry.
a 18 A (Continuing.) I was going to say: It's just a summary
. 19 of my own personal feelings.
20 JUDGE GROSSMAN: I don't think Ms. Kezelis is 21 asking you the basis for your feelings.
22 I think she is trying to find out exactly what you 23 meant by, " work with blinders on."
24 What does that connote or denote? What does that
(} 25 mean?
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1 A (Continuing.) Well, pretty much just to do exactly 2 what your inspections are set out to do and, basically, 3 don't worry about anything else that you might possibly 4 stumble upon, although I have to add that nobody had 5 ever actually said that to me. I am just going off my 6 own personal opinion.
7 BY MS. KEZELIS:
8 Q Such an incident, to the best of your recollection 9 today, never had taken place?
10 A Correct.
11 Q Okay.
12 JUDGE GROSSMAN: When you say anything that 13 you might stumble on, you mean some defects that you 14 might see?
15 THE WITNESS: (No response.)
16 JUDGE GROSSMAN: I am not trying to lead you 17 into any answer, but we are trying to find out exactly 18 what you mean; and if that is not it, say it's not it 19 and see if you can say what is it.
20 THE WITNESS: I guess all I can say is that 21 we just had the opinion that their attitude was, you 22 know, "Do exactly what we are telling you to do as far 23 as the work you are to look at and don't worry about the 24 other stuff, because it will be taken care of."
i
() 25 JUDGE GROSSMAN: What other stuff do you Sonntag Reporting Service, Ltd. _
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5927 1 mean?
2 THE WITNESS: I am not trying to imply that 3 there are other things out there that, you know, we 4 passed up; or if we saw a crack in a wall or something 5 like that, that we wouldn't say anything.
6 I am just trying to think, offhand. Now, there are 7 times that, you know, we would come up to them and say, 8 "What about this? We think this might be a problem in 9 the future as far as paper work or the way they were 10 doing things."
11 We were constantly told not to worry about it. It 12 would get taken care of during walkdown or it will get 13 taken care of during another inspection process. Just 14 don't worry about it.
15 From being continually told that, you more or less 16 just got the attitude: Stick to what your daily routine I
l 17 is and don't worry about any of the other stuff.
l .
18 JUDGE GROSSMAN: Okay. I am sorry, Ms.
19 Kezelis. I didn't mean to interrupt your questioning.
l 20 MS. KEZELIS: That is quite all right.
l 21 BY MS. KEZELIS:
22 O With respect to blinders on, do you ever recall having 23 an understanding or an impression that Comstock might 24 want you to ignore other contractors' problems and 25 concentrate on your own inspection activities?
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I l
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1 A As far as me personally, no. I know that -- I believe 2 -- I think it's in this memo here somewhere, that 3 another inspector had seen a problem.
4 Q Are you referring to 5 A I believe that's who it was.
6 Q Okay. So with respect to other contractors' work, such
~
7 an incident or impression had never occurred to you nor 8 had you ever had such an understanding; is that correct? ;
9 A As far ac other contractors' work, nothing that had 10 affected me personally.
11 Q How about with respect to other QC Inspectors' work?
12 A Just from what I know, the problem that 0 13 had.
14 Q I am just trying to focus in on blinders, Mr. Peterson; 15 and that's where I am coming from.
16 Do you recall ever having any exchanges with Mr.
17 Saklak that would lead you to feel that Comstock 18 expected you to work with blinders on?
19 A Just one example I can think of, offhand, now was one 20 time I was working in the vault and I had seen some old 21 paper work that, to me, didn't seem to be very traceable 22 or be a very good reflection as to what would be out in 23 .the field.
24 And I pointed this paper work out to him; and I got 25 the typical response of, " Don't worry abou't it at this
( )'
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I 1 time. We will catch it during walkdown."
3 2 Q All right. Could that be what you had had in mind when 3 you made the statement to the NRC that Comstock wanted 4 you to work with blinders on, if you recall?
5 A Yeah, yeah.
6 Q Do you recall how old that paper work was that you l 7 pointed out to Mr. Saklak?
8 A Oh, I would say -- I would have to venture to say at 9 that time -- I am guessing -- three to four years old.
I 10 It was quite old.
11 Q Ok ?.1 12- A' It was the old system that they used of the paper.
lO 13 Q What old system is that?
14 A One of the original checklists that they had come up i 15 with.
j 16 Q All right. Do you recall whether it was a Comstock 17 documentation or E. C. Ernst documentation?
-18 A (No response.)
t 19 0 If you don't recall, that's all right.
20 A I believe it was Comstock. It could have been Ernst.
21 We had a lot of the Ernst stuff, also; and that was 22 just --
23 Q Do you recall what kind of paper work it was or what 24 type of inspections the paper work was reflecting?
I
() 25 A I believe it was for weld inspections.
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V 1 Q What was it about that old paper work that you were 2 dissatisfied with?
3 A I think it was the first time I had gotten into the 4 vault, I believe; and -- it wasn't the first time I was 5 in the vault but the first time I got to look at some of 6 the old, old paper work.
7 I was a little dismayed of the fact the old paper 8 work was just pretty much a blank check, just a small 9 heading and people were putting on many, many.various 10 hangers on the old paper work.
11 Then they would put on grid lines. As far as 12 location of the hangers, they would merely put like grid O 13 lines 21 and 26 L to P, for example, which, you know, 14 for one thing, it didn't point to exactly which hanger 15 they had done.
16 They had the hanger number, but in many cases there 17 are the same hanger numbers in the same room, so you had 18 no way of knowing if it was Hanger 1 on one side of the 19 room or Hanger 1 on the other side of the room.
20 Q And your understanding was that these were inspections 21 performed on the grid basis; is that correct?
22 A Well, that's how they reported them on the paper work.
23 They would write down, " Inspected in grid lines 21 24 to 26 L to P," for example.
() 25 Q All right. Did you ever talk to anybody other than Mr.
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RJ l Saklak about those types of inspection reports?
2 A Oh, yes.
3 Q Do you recall with whom?
4 A Probably everybody. It was quite a conversation piece 5 with all the inspectors there.
6 Q Do you recall anybody specifically with whom you might 7 have had a conversation about that type of paper work?
8 A As far as the old paper work, I can almost guarantee we 9 have all talked to everybody about it.
10 It was just something we have all looked at and 11 joked about.
- 12 Q Okay. Mr. Peterson, you just testified that it was
'~'
13 something all of you talked about and that it was 14 something of a joke.
15 Do you recall making that statement?
16 A Well, we ourselves probably laughed at the style of the 17 old paper work, because we felt it was very crude, 18 really not very traceable, didn't reflect a true
( 19 understanding of exactly what was inspected.
20 We just felt they could have come up with a lot
! 21 better system.
22 Q Okay. And that was the manner in which you referred to 23 it as a joke?
24 A Yes.
() 25 Q Okay. Can you recall what the parameters or the nature Sonntaq Reporting Service, Ltd.
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1 of the inspection checklists were when you began 2 performing weld inspections for Comstock at Braidwood in l
3 1983?
4 A Okay. They were somewhat better than what the old forms 5 were.
6 They had a heading, which would ask for specific 7 hanger number, it would ask for location, drawing 8 details and then below that they had all the different 9 types of weld discontinuities that could occur; and then 10 you would have to mark whether they were acceptable or 11 rejectable or N/A.
12 O Have those forms continued to change over time, to the
'O 13 best of your knowledge?
14 A There have been revisions made to them, yes.
15 That's just a common thing.
16 Q Do you recall seeing more than a thousand welds 17 documented on any individual inspection report?
18 A Oh, yeah.
19 Q Do you recall when you first came across such a document 20 or documents?
21 A Some time during my employment with Comstock is all I 22 can say.
I 23 It's just -- I have seen it a couple of times.
l 24 JUDGE GROSSMAN: Excuse me. A couple meaning
(~) 25 two times?
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1 THE WITNESS: To the best of my knowledge, at 2 least twice, if not more.
3 BY MS. KEZELIS:
4 Q This is one document that you had seen twice or two 5 separate documents that you saw?
6 A I have seen a couple, a couple'of different documents, 7 some with -- I have seen a couple with, like, say, 800 8 welds on them and I believe one was around a thousand to 9 1,200 welds.
10 Q Do you. recall where these documents were when you saw 11 them?
12 A They were in the vault; and I think the first time I saw O 13 them was when I was doing research on a hanger that I 14 was possibly looking at, trying to check up on what the 15 old paper work was on it and I had seen that.-
16 I believe the other time somebody else had it in 17 their hand and was making a comment about it.
18 Q Do you recall what hanger or what drawing number or what 19 location it was that you were performing research for 20 when you ran into one of them?
21 A No, I can't. I have looked at so many different hangers 22 and drawings out there that --
23 Q Do you recall who had it in his or her hand, who had 24 such a document in his or her hand and showed it to you?
25 A No, I can't, offhand, no.
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1 Q What kind of research were you performing on the hanger 2 when you came across it?
3 A Well, when I say I was performing research, I am merely 4 saying that, to the best of my memory, that's probably 5 what I was doing that would bring me to the vault to 6 happen upon that paper work.
7 Q And why --
8 A I am not sure that's exactly what I was doing there.
9 0 If that's what you were doing there, why were you 10 performing research on a particular hanger?
11 A Well, see, a lot of times you get old NCR's or such, 12 ICR's, that you are closing out or trying to close out 13 on hangers.
14 Then you would perform research to get all the 15 background on it, to see what has been inspected and 16 accepted already, because if it's already been accepted 17 on certain parts, then you would move onto the other 18 things that had to be looked at.
19 Q Did you at any time perform reinspections?
20 A As far as --
21 Q As far as the welds on given hangers.
22 A Things that were already inspected?
23 Q Yes, sir.
24 A Oh, yes, definitely.
(} 25 Q Do you recall the date or dates or roughly the years of Sonntag Reporting Service, Ltd.
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5935 1 either of these two documents that you have been talking 2 about?
3 A No.
4 Q Do you recall the identity of any inspector who had 5 signed such a document?
6 A Just one of them I remember. The inspector was Irv 7 DeWald.
8 Q Do you recall the number of inspections that appeared on 9 that or the number of welds that appeared on that 10 particular report that you are referring to now?
11 A To the best of my knowledge, it was a minimum 800, 12 possibly a thousand welds.
13 0 When you say to the best of your recollection, it was a 14 minimum of 800 to a thousand welds, Mr. Peterson, is 15 your recollection quite certain on this point?
16 A Yes, it is. I can't give you an accurate number; but, 17 you know, I was shocked enough when I saw it that that 18 stuck in my mind.
19 0 Is the one that you saw, which had been signed by Mr.
r 20 DeWald, the one that you identified earlier which
- 21 reflected 800 welds or the one that you identified 22 earlier that reflected 1,000 to 1,200 welds?
23 A I -- I can't recall. I can't honestly say which one it 24 is.
25 Let me show you two documents at this time, Mr.
-( ) Q
! Sonntaq Reporting Service, Ltd.
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'O 1 Peterson. They are Intervenors' Exhibits 18 and 19 in 2 this proceeding.
3 Let me ask you first if you have ever seen Exhibit' 4 18, and, in particular, the two pages immediately 5 ,
preceding the PTL documentation?
6 A (No response.)
7 Q I will ask you to take a look, Mr. Peterson, at the 8 couple of pages immediately preceding and immediately 9 following the sheet that I have open to you and I will 10 also ask you to take a look at Exhibit 19 at the same 11 time.
12 MR. GUILD: Mr. Chairman, I believe there is O 13 a pending question, which is to identify one page of the 14 multi-page documents that she put in front of him.
- 15 MS. KEZELIS: I had thought I asked him to
! 16 take a look at them.
17 I don't think I asked him a question at that point.
i l
18 JUDGE GROSSMAN: At all of Exhibit 18?
19 MS. KEZELIS: No, sir. Just the few pages 20 immediately surrounding, the pages immediately preceding 21 the PTL documentation, the page before it as well.
I I 22 BY MS. KEZELIS:
l 23 Q With respect to the five or so pages that you have 24 looked at in the middle of Intervenors' Exhibit No. 18, 25 Mr. Peterson, do you recall ever having seen copies of l
1 Sonntag Reporting Service, Ltd.
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5937 1 those documents before? i 2 A I don't believe I have ever seen these actual documents 4 3 right here before.
4 0 Okay, all right. And with particular reference to the 5 number of welds identified by Mr. Yanketis in that 6 series of documents in Intervenors' Exhibit 18, the 7 quantity of welds in that grid appear to have been 8 1,166; is that correct?
9 A Yes.
10 Q Do you recall whether you had seen a figure like that 11 before in any of the documents that you had reviewed?
12 A Offhand, no.
( 13 Q Let me direct your attention now to Intervenors' Exhibit 14 No. 19 and ask you to take a look at that two-page 15 document, sir.
16 A Okay. This type of form looks a lot more familiar to me 17 now.
18 This is how a lot of the older paper work was 19 filled out, with various hanger numbers in the body of a 20 form.
21 The inspector had to fill out drawing and the area 22 and the total amount of welds. It was not asked for on 23 the form.
24 It was pretty much like a blank sheet.
() 25 0 Is this the type of paper work that you had been Sonntag Reporting Service, Ltd.
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0 1 referring to when you described the statements you had 2 made to Mr. Saklak a few minutes ago, generally the type 3 of paper work you had been referring to?
4 A It could have .be en. I can't really recall offhand.
5 And now that I think about it, you asked me before 6 if it could have possibly been Ernst paper work, it 7 might have been Ernst paper work, too, that I was 8 looking at.
9 MR. GUILD: Mr. Chairman, for clarity, the
). 10 witness is looking at a two-page document, Intervenors' i-19, and it refers to the form.
11 12 Could the witness clarify whether he is looking at
.O 13 the first page or the second page of that exhibit?
i 14 THE WITNESS: I'am familiar or have seen 15 forms like these, both forms.
16 MR. GUILD: Thank you.
17 BY MS. KEZELIS:
18 Q Was one or the other form more similar to the paper work l 19 you had mentioned to Mr. Saklak or were they both the f 20 type of paper work? .
i j 21 A Oh, I am sure it was more like the top form here, the
! 22 pretty much blank one.
23 Q The first sheet than the second sheet?
24 A Yes, definitely the first sheet.
l
() 25' Q Do you recall -- and I realize this is a difficult Sonntag Reporting Service, Ltd.
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1 question.
2 Do you recall whether this might have been a 3 document that you had seen, Mr. DeWald's, reflecting a 4 large number of inspections on the single sheet of 5 paper?
6 A I can't -- I can't say that this was an exact piece of 7 paper that I had in my mind. I can't say that.
8 All I can say is I had something that was, in 9 effect, something like this with his name on it.
10 Q Okay. Have I pretty well exhausted your recollection, 11 Mr. Peterson, with respect to the identity or location 12 or specifics of any document you may have seen O 13 documenting 800 to a thousand or so inspections on a 14 single report signed by Mr. DeWald?
15 A At this time, yes.
l 16 Q Did you ever talk to Mr. DeWald about such a document?
17 A No.
18 Q All right. Why not?
19 A I had very little conversations with him.
20 Q Did Mr. DeWald ever discuss such an inspection report in L
21 your presence?
22 A No.
23 Q Did Mr. DeWald ever say words to the effect in your 24 presence of, " Hey, guys, I have been able to perform so
() 25 many inspections per day when I was here as an Sonntag Reporting Service, Ltd.
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1 inspector. You can do the same"?
2 A I don't recall him saying that, no.
3 Q Do you have any understanding as to the manner in which 4 inspections were performed and subsequently documented 5 during, say, 1981 by Comstock at Braidwood?
6 A I -- are you getting at as far as --
7 Q Have you ever had an opportunity to discuss with any 8 other inspector the manner in which inspections were 9 performed back in 1981 in terms of inspection and 10 subsequent documentation of that inspection or 11 inspections?
12 A (No response.)
O 13 0 If you --
14 A Nothing I can recall, offhand.
15 Of course, after working there for a while and 16 seeing the paper work, we had talked about how things 17 probably were back then, what things were probably like; 18 but it was just assumption on our part.
19 0 What was your understanding as to how things were done 20 then?
21 A Well, I can only give you an assumption as far as my 22 feelings. I can't give you anything as far as concrete, 23 as I was told.
24 0 I don't want you to speculate.
() 25 If you don't recall speaking with anybody who would Sonntag Reporting Service, Ltd.
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5941 1 have known how inspections were performed during that 2 time period, I don't ask you to speculate in any 3 respect.
4 A I would just as soon not comment on that at this time.
5 0 That's fine, that's fine.
6 Did you ever show the documents that you have 7 spoken to us about today to anybody else?
8 A Concerning the amount of welds done by Irv DeWald in one 9 day?
10 Q Yes, sir.
11 A At the time I had seen them, I don't believe I showed 12 them to anybody else.
~
13 I have talked to other people about it.
14 Q You say the amount of welds done by Irv in a single day.
15 Did you mean --
16 A Well --
17 Q Let me ask you a question.
18 Did you have an understanding that the number of 19 welds you saw were, in fact, all inspected on a single 20 day by Mr. DeWald?
21 A I can't say that, no.
22 That's what I was going to say. I should have
- 23 stated that a little bit differently: The amount of 24 welds that were put on the form and dated with one date.
() 25 0 But your prior answer was, yes, in fact, you did talk to Sonntag Reporting Service, Ltd.
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1 other people; is that correct?
2 A Yes.
3 Q Do you recall with whom?
4 A As far'as that type of paper work, just about everybody 5 there.
6 Q Do you recall, generally, what types of statements you 7 would make about it?
8 A Just that we thought it was very, very lax as far as the 9 type of forms, the old forms.
10 We were pretty disappointed that they couldn't have 11 come up with anything better than that as far as an 12 inspection form.
7-
~#
13 Had they had a better form, they certainly wouldn't 14 be having a lot of the problems they are having now.
15 Had they had a better form, they wouldn't have to 16 worry about a thousand welds appearing on one sheet.
17 Q Do you have any reason to believe, Mr. Peterson, that 18 Mr. DeWald would have falsified such an inspection 19 report?
20 A I have no reason to believe that, no.
21 Q You made the statement, " Problems that they are having 22 now."
23 I believe you had already testified that you 24 haven't worked at Comstock since December of 1985; is
() 25 that correct?
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b 1 A Yes.
2 Q All right. Then what were you referring to when you 3 said, " problems that they are having now"?
4 A I just meant as far as the old paper work more or less 5 coming back to haunt them now.
6 Q All right. Did you ever participate in the document 7 review programs that Comstock undertook?
8 A As far as the paper work document review?
9 Q Yes.
10 A There was one area I was in -- partially involved in.
11 It was the cable pan weld re-inspection program.
,f 3 12 0 Did you have an understanding as to whether that was an 13 inspection being performed in order to undertake and 14 resolve deficiencies in the old paper work that had 15 existed?
16 A Yes.
17 0 That was your understanding?
18 A As far as that, yes. We were looking over a lot of the 19 old paper work from the cable pan welds and deciding 20 what we felt would be traceable, and what wasn't we 21 would put on a list for re-inspection.
22 Q Did you have an understanding as to when Mr. DeWald 23 became QC Manager for Comstock at Braidwood?
24 A As far as the exact date, no.
() 25 Q Had he already been QC Manager, to the best of your Somntaa Regoriing_ Serv 1.g.e; Ltd_,
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1 recollection, when you came on site?
2 A He was QC Manager when I started there, yes.
3 Q Did you have an understanding of how long he had been 4 there when you came on in December of 1983?
5 A I assumed for about a year. I am not exactly sure of 6 the exact time.
7 Q Okay. Your understanding was that he had been there 8 since, perhaps, the end of 1982 as QC Manager?
9 A Possibly, yes.
10 JUDGE GROSSMAN: Ms. Kezelis, whenever you 11 want to take a break.
12 MS. KE73LIS: I was just going to suggest O 13 one.
14 JUDGE GROSSMAN: All right. We will take ten 15 minutes.
16 MS. KEZELIS: Thank you.
17 (WHEREUPON, a recess was had, after which 18 the hearing was resumed as follows:)
19 JUDGE GROSSMAN: We are back in session.
20 BY MS. KEZELIS:
21 Q Mr. Peterson, have you ever had occasion to observe 22 bimetallic welds within Comstock's scope of work; and by 23 that term I mean the welding of carbon steel to 24 stainless steel as base metals?
() 25 THE WITNESS: I didn't catch quite all you Sonntag Reporting Service, Ltd.
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2 Would you repeat that?
3 MS. KEZELIS: Would you read the question-4 again?
5 (The question was thereupon read by the 6 Reporter.)
7 A No, I haven't.
8 BY MS. KEZELIS:
9 Q Have you ever had occasion to inspect stainless steel 10 junction boxes?
11 A Not while I was employed with Comstock, no.
12 Q Have you seen any bimetallic welds, as I have just 13 defined them, during the course of any of your 14 inspection for Newberg?
15 A No, I haven't.
16 Q Have you ever had occasion to inspect stainless steel 17 junction boxes?
18 A I have inspected junction boxes for Newberg, yes.
19 Q Have they been stainless steel junction boxes?
20 A (No response.)
21 Q If you recall.
22 A None that I can recall offhand.
l l 23 I mean, they were junction boxes that matched the 1
24 model and type that were called for by design.
25 As far as if they were stainless and painted over,
({}
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m 5946 1 I don't know. They could have been.
2 Q Do you recall how it was that they were physically 3 attached or installed?
4 A Quite a few of them are attached by concrete expansion 5 anchors.
6 Q And the rest?
7 A Would be attached by a stand. They are attached with 8 cap screws to a unistrut and the unistrut is welded to a 9 stand on the floor or the ceiling.
10 0 So that the junction box physically itself is not welded 11 to another component?
7g 12 A Correct.
U 13 Q Any of the junction boxes that you have had occasion to 14 inspect?
15 A Correct.
16 Q Let me turn now to the topic of the status reports which 17 came up some time before the break.
18 What specifically did you understand those status 19 reports to be?
20 A I would imagine, depending on the project they were 21 working on, to keep track of exactly what was done, so 22 that the lead person could tally what work was done, 23 keep everything up in his logs and to, basically, see 24 what the amount of work is that each person is doing a 25 day.
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s 1 0 When you say, " basically to see the amount of work each 2 person is doing each day," what did you mean by that?
3 A That's an assumption on my part. I am assuming what I 4 would feel was in their thoughts with those status 5 sheets.
6 You know, nobody from Comstock management ever said 7 to me, "We are going to keep track of, you know, exactly 8 how much work you are doing."
9 Q You testified earlier today that you were a lead for a 10 time period; is that correct?
11 A Yes.
7- 12 0 Were status sheets ever handed in to you?
O 13 A Oh, yes.
14 0 What did you do with them?
15 A Boy, I believe we used them at that time to compile a 16 log, which we would give to a secretary-type person, who 17 is -- who had a huge log of all NCR's that were being 18 closed or ICR's that were being closed and exactly how 19 many conduit hangers were being inspected and cable pan 20 hangers that were being inspected.
21 Q Do you recall personally creating or filling out a log 22 of the total number of inspections your inspectors 23 working under you had performed?
24 A I believe we -- yeah, we had some sort of form blank, a
() 25 form that we would add up the total of all work done by Sonntaq Reporting Service, Ltd.
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1 the guys.
2 Say you had five guys working for you. You would 3 add up the total of conduit hangers done, put it down on 4 the-form under conduit total, total amount of ICR's 5 closed and NCR's, something to that effect.
6 Q Mr. Peterson, did you personally review the individual 7 status sheets turned in to you when you were the Lead 8 Inspector in order to determine the amount of work 9 performed by an individual inspector on a daily basis?
10 A No.
11 Q All right. Did you have an understanding as to whether 12 there was a particular individual responsible for the 13 overall status report system at Comstock?
14 A To the best of my understanding, it was Larry Seese.
15 Q Did you ever have an occasion to discuss with Mr. Seese 16 tle status reports or the impressions about them that 17 you have just testified to today?
18 A Not that I can recall, no.
19 Q Did you ever have occasion to talk to any other Lead 20 about what he might have been doing with these status 21 reports being turned in to him?
22 A As far as what they were doing with them? As far as --
~
23 Q Yes, sir, as far as what they were doing.
24 A Not really. I mean, it was just a matter of keeping
() 25 track of logs so they could keep a total account of how Sonntag Reporting Service, Ltd.
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1 much work was getting done.
2 Q To the best of your recollection, was this during the 3 course of the -- strike that. Let me try again.
4 During that time period, do you recall whether or 5 not there was a backlog of inspections to be performed 6 overall for Comstock at Braidwood?
7 A There usually was, so I am sure during that time there 8 was.
9 Q Okay. Did you have any understanding as to the 10 relationship of the status reports to the reduction of 11 the backlog effort?
12 A Just that, you know, when we got them in, that they O 13 wanted them to be statused as soon as possible, just so 14 they could get an idea of how much was being done, 15 because they were, obviously, interested in getting the 16 backlog trimmed down as quickly as possible.
17 Q Okay. Did you have an understanding during the course 18 of your employment either with BESTCO for Comstock or 19 with Comstock itself as to whether or not the overall 20 backlogged inspections for Comstock had ever been caught 21 up to?
22 A That we had caught up the backlog?
23 Q Yes, sir.
l.
- 24 A Yes, we did.
i () 25 Q Do you recall approximately when that was?
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1 A No, I don't.
2 Q When you said earlier that you almost always had a 3 backlog, were you referring to something other than the 4 completion of the backlog you have just testified about 5 now?
6 A I merely meant they usually had a backlog of inspections 7 as a whole in most all areas.
8 Q All right. What is your definition of backlog, let's 9 try that?
10 A Simply, that they are behind on their inspections as far 11 as the amount of work that craft had done that hadn't 12 been inspected yet.
O 13 0 Did you have an understanding that the definition of 14 backlog by Comstock was an installation performed more 15 than 30 days before without inspection having taken 16 place in that time?
17 A Yes, I believe 30 days was the limit.
18 0 And you, nevertheless, testified that the backlog --
19 quote, unquote backlog -- for Comstock at Braidwood was 20 completed; is that correct?
21 I guess I am a little confused.
22 A There was a time when they had had a big deal going on 23 where they, Comstock, was supposedly worried that they 24 were going to get kicked off site because they had such 25 a bad backlog problem.
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5951 1 Larry Seese gave us a speech that things were 2 looking very critical as far as Comstock. They needed 3 to get the backlog taken care of and everybody's efforts 4 would be appreciated, you know, that type of thing.
5 And, eventually, that work that he was talking 6 about at the time, eventually, that did get done.
7 0 Is that the backlog that was eventually completed that 8 you are referring to?
9 A I believe so, yes.
10 0 When you said earlier that there was always a backlog, 11 did you, in fact, mean that some areas of inspection 12 would be lagging; whereas, others might be caught up to O 13 date --
14 A Yes.
15 0 -- as in a normal course of business?
16 A Yes.
17 Q Do you recall the circumstances in which Mr. Seese made 18 that speech to you?
19 A What do you mean as far as circumstances, the date or --
20 0 Was this at a general meeting or had he called together 21 a special meeting?
22 A Yes. Not everybody there was. There was maybe a dozen 23 people there at the time.
24 Q Do you recall whether or not you were being assigned to 25 a special project in connection with the completion of
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1 the backlog at that time?
2 A Yeah, I believe at that time I was working on a project 3 where we would take the old, what they called HIR's and 4 CIR's -- they are Hanger Installation Reports and 5 Conduit Installation Reports.
6 What they were trying to do was get them all 7 organized, so they knew exactly what work that they had 8 to do that wasn't done yet.
9 They had a whole pile of them, and nothing was 10 organized, nothing was filed; and it was up to us to get 11 them organized, do research on them.
12 We would take an HIR, which would tell us that such O 13 a hanger was installed, we would go in the vault, dig 14 through the vault, see if the hanger was installed --
15 excuse me, see if it was inspected.
16 If it was inspected, see if it was weld inspected 17 and accepted; and then go through the configuration 18 files and see if it was' configuration inspected and 19 accepted; and if it was, that would be marked as done 20 and then we would continue on with the next HIR or CIR.
21 Q I take it then or it would be fair to say that Mr. Seese 22 was supervising this particular project, if you recall?
23 A I.-- he possibly was at that time.
24 I think Ken Worthington had it for the most part.
() 25 Q In the event that a documented weld inspection or a Sonntag Reporting Service, Ltd.
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1 documented configuration inspection could not be 2 located, what, if anything, did you do then?
3 A They were stamped -- let's see.
4 Well, they were put in a file. There was a special 5 file that they were put in.
6 And in that case, then, they were put in a file by 7 drawing number -- okay? -- as work to be done, so then 8 on a daily basis that work in those files would be 9 handed out to inspectors to do on a daily basis.
10 Q Were you one of the inspectors who would then go out to 11 the field and inspect what needed to be inspected?
12 A No, not at that time. I was the Lead, so I was the one O 13 trying to take care of all the paper work and then 14 handing out the work during the day.
15 Q Were you a Lead for this special project, if you recall?
16 A I am not just sure. It was only like a month or two
- 17 that I was and I can't really -- I know I was -- you 18 know, I had a major portion to do with that project as l
19 far as the filing of the paper work and the research.
l 20 I can't remember exactly if I was Lead at that time l
- 21 or not.
l 22 Q That's fine.
23 Do you recall approximately when this took place?
j 24 A No, I do not.
25 Q Okay. Let's see if I can pinpoint it.
i l Sonntag Reporting _Servicef_Ltd.
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l 5954 4
l I
- 1 A I knew you were going to do that. i
! 2 Q Do you recall that Comstock changed the salary structure 3 for QC Inspectors some time in April of 1984?
4 A To the best of my recollection, yes, that was.
5 Q All right. And that thereafter, in order to attain l 6 salary raises or increases, one needed to obtain an i 7 additional certification; is that correct?
j 8 A Correct.
9 Q Do you recall where in relationship to that change in 10 salary structure did this special project take place?
- 11 A Offhand, I just -- I just can't remember.
- (
12 13 Q Okay. Do you recall whether or not this project may have affected the manner in which you were being or I
I 14 would be scheduled into cross-training for additional 15 certifications?
16 A No.
17 Q You don't recall?
1 18 A No.
19 Q Okay. Do-you recall ever seeing or receiving a memo 20 from Mr. Worthington regarding this special project?
21 A I don't really understand what you are saying.
22 A memo as far as what, though?
f 23 0 Let me see if I can refresh your recollection.
i 24 I will show you what has been previously marked and 25 received into evidence as Applicant's Exhibit 42.
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1 For the record, that's a copy of a memo dated 2 August 24, 1984, from Mr. Worthington and Mr. Seltmann 3 to the backlog weld and configuration inspectors.
4 Do you recall having seen a copy of that document 5 before, Mr. Peterson? -
6 I realize it's been a while.
7 A No, I don't, because, you see, what I was involved in 8 was getting the backlog set up. We were more or less 9 getting the file ready so they knew exactly what had to 10 be done.
11 Q For the backlog and weld inspectors to then go ahead?
12 A Configuration.
O 13 Q Excuse me. All right.
14 A Once we had the files all straightened out and it was 15 for once all organized and they knew exactly what needed 16 to be done, I believe the files were then given to other 17 people, because -- now that is coming back to me.
18 I believe that's when I started getting involved in 19 the cable pan weld project, I think.
l
- 20 Q Okay.
}
21 A So as far as this, I think this was more or less f 22 involving another group of people.
23 (Indicating.)
24 Q Who were to perform inspections for packages that you l
25 and others put together; is that correct?
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5956 O ;g ,
1 A Yes, yes.
2 Q Okay. Well, let me ask you this: Do you know a man 3 named R. Seltmann?
4 A Robert Seltmann, yes.
5 Q Yes, okay. How do you know him or how did you know him?
6 A He was working for QA for Comstock.
7 Q All right. Let me ask you this: Are you quite certain 8 that, to the best of your recollection, it was Mr. Seese 9 who made the statement that he did about the project 10 rather than Mr. Seltmann, perhaps?
11 A No, because at that time Bob was strictly working QA.
12 ,
It wasn't until much later in my employment with 13 'Comstock that he became more or less elevated to a 14 management position.
15 0 Okay. When Mr. Seese made the statement to you that he 16 did about the -- and the others, about the -- backlog 17 and that things were looking critical and that 18 everyone's effort would be appreciated or words to that 19 effect --
20 A Something to that effect, yes.
21 Q Okay.
22 -- did you feel pressured in any respect to be lax 23 in terms of the quality of the work that you would be 24 doing --
25 A No, not at all.
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V) 1 0 -- in order to -- let me finish my question, please.
2 -- in order to accommodate his request to --
3 accommodate his request that everyone's effort would be 4 appreciated?
5 A No, not at all.
6 Q Do you recall anything else about this meeting that Mr.
7 Seese had called or no?
8 A No. It wasn't really anything out of the ordinary.
9 They knew that they were in a critical stage and they 10 knew that the work had to be done.
11 Q Did anything Mr. Seese said to you cause you to change 12 in any respect the manner in which you performed your 13 own work?
14 A No.
15 Q Did you ever have occasion to observe QC Inspectors 16 loafing around or goofing off?
17 A Not to an extreme, no. I think in anybody's workday, 18 they might see an occasional joke being told or 19 something like that; but as far as -- are you talking 20 hours or what?
l 21 I mean, you know, it's --
( 22 O When you said " extreme," what would be an extreme to you l
l 23 in terms of loafing around or goofing off?
24 A I suppose five, ten, more minutes.
25 Five, ten or more minutes?
(]) Q l
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I Geneva, Illinois 60134 (312) 232-0262
5958 1 A Yes. I have never seen anything like that.
2 Q How about you personally, Mr. Peterson; did you ever 3 have occasion to loaf around or goof off during the 4 course of your employment with Comstock at Braidwood?
5 A How do you really think I am going to answer?
6 Q Yes, sir, I would like you to.
7 A Of course not.
8 Q Do you know a man by the name of John Seeders?
9 A Yes, I do.
10 Q How do you know him?
11 A He was a QC Inspector at Comstock while I was employed 12 there.
13 Q Did there come a time when he was no longer a QC 14 Inspector for Comstock?
15 A Yes. He was transferred to the Engineering Department.
16 Q Did you have occasion to discuss the circumstances 17 surrounding his transfer with Mr. Seeders?
18 A I believe once or twice I had talked to John concerning 19 his allegations with Saklak and his transfer.
20 0 What did you understand his allegations to be?
21 A As far as I can recall -- I can't really remember the 22 exact circumstances.
23 I just know that there was a situation between him 24 and Saklak and I think Worley was a witness to it or 25 something; and Saklak had said something to him that he,
(] Sonntag Reporting Service, Ltd. Geneva, Illinois bu144 (312) 232-0262
5959 (Jl 1 apparently, didn't like. 2 Q That Mr. Seeders didn't like? 3 A Yes. 4 Q And that is what Mr. Seeders allegations were, to the 5 best of your recollection at this point? 6 A Yes. 7 Q Did you have occasion to discuss with Mr. Seeders his 8 transfer out of QC and into the other department? 9 A As far as I can recall, the only conversation I had with 10 him was just to ask him how he liked the transfer and if 11 he was just more or less happy where he was.
.s 12 That's the total extent of it.
13 0 What was your understanding of his satisfaction or 14 dissatisfaction with the transfer? 15 A Well, I think he was glad to be out of the reign of Irv 16 DeWald. Of course, anybody would be. 17 As far as how it affected his career, I don't 18 really know. I think he was happier overall to be out 19 of there. 20 0 Did Mr. Seeders lead you to have any understanding as to 21 the reason for his transfer? 22 A That whole situation there, really, is very vague with 23 me right now. I really can't comment much on that. 24 Q Did you have any understanding as to whether Mr. () 25 Seeders' allegations were oral or in writing? Sonntaq Reporting Service, Ltd. Geneva, Illinois 60134 (312) 232-0262
5960 O 1 A I don't know. I just -- that was a while back. 2 Q Did Mr. Seeders ever show you a letter he wrote to Irv 3 DeWald containing allegations about his experience with 4 Mr. Saklak? 5 A No. 6 0 You never saw a letter -- 7 A I never saw a letter. 8 0 -- like that? 9 Let me just show you to make sure that you have 10 never seen this letter. 11 For the record, I am going to show the witness what 12 has been previously marked as Intervenors' Exhibit 24 O 13 and admitted as such into evidence. 14 Just take a quick look at that, Mr. Peterson. 15 Do you recall ever having seen a copy of a letter 16 such as that before? 17 A No, I have never seen this before. 18 0 Okay. Did Mr. Seeders ever give you any understanding 19 of audits that were being performed of the Calibrations 20 Department? 21 A I believe shortly after his incident with Saklak and, to 22 the best of my knowledge, when he had made allegations 23 to the NRC, I believe they then started performing an 24 audit on all the previous work that was done by him. 25 0 And was this understanding based on something that Mr. (]} Sonntag Reporting Service, Ltd. Geneva, Illinois 60134 (312) 232-0262
5961 C d 1 Seeders told you? 2 A Let me think now. 3 Yes, yeah, because I remember now the comment John 4 had made was it seemed funny to him that after the years 5 of doing that, they suddenly now were finding things 6 wrong with his program, the way it was set up, and that 7 QA was telling him, "Well, this is wrong, this is wrong. 8 Why did you do it this way," and he was more or less 9 saying, "Well, where have you been for the last few 10 years? Why now all of a sudden have you got an audit 11 and why are you finding things wrong? This is the way 12 things have been carried out for quite some time." O 13 0 Was it your understanding that the audit was performed 14 after Mr. Seeders had made his allegations about Mr. 15 Saklak? 16 A I believe that is correct. 17 Q And that is what Mr. Seeders led you to understand so 18 far as you recall? 19 A Yes. 20 Q You made a reference to Worley earlier on. 21 Were you referring to Mr. Puckett? 22 A Yes. 23 Q Before I get to the topic of Mr. Puckett, you made a 24 statement to the effect of, "out of the reign of Irv () 25 DeWald." , Sonntag Reporting Service, Ltd. Geneva, Illinois 60134 ! (312) 232-0262 1
5962 k 1 I think you said something like, "Anybody would be 2 happy to be out of the reign of Irv DeWald." 3 A Yes. 4 Q Do you recall saying that? 5 A Yes. 6 0 What did you mean when you said that, Mr. Peterson? 7 A Well, let's just say I have worked for better, much 8 better. 9 0 In what respect did you find Mr. DeWald to be lacking? 10 A What would this -- can I held for libel for anything I 11 say here or what? 12 (Laughter.) 13 MR. MILLER: Truth is a defense. 14 MS. KEZELIS: All we want from you is the 15 truth, Mr. Peterson. 16 JUDGE GROSSMAN: No, you can't be held -- 17 THE WITNESS: I can give you a personal 18 opinion. l 19 JUDGE GROSSMAN: No, you can't be held in 20 libel for that opinion. 21 THE WITNESS: Okay. Could you ask the ! 22 question again then? l ! 23 MS. KEZELIS: Would you read the question, 24 please, Mr. Reporter? 25 (The question was thereupon read by the ('} Sonntag Reporting Service, Ltd._ _ l ueneva, 1111nois eu134 l (312) 232-0262 l - _ . - - - - . ._ . _ - - . .. .
5963 Il' v 1 Reporter.) 2 A Every. 3 BY MS. KEZELIS: 4 Q Can you be more specific, Mr. Peterson? 5 A To put it honestly, I couldn't have a lower opinion of 6 him. I don't know how else to put it. 7 Q Do you mean as to Mr. DeWald as a person or as to Mr. 8 DeWald as a manager of QC Inspectors or do you mean as 9 to his interpersonal skills with employees? 10 Does that help you at all? 11 A D, all of the above. 12 I can handle the personality problem, that's no 13 problem to me; but when you top it off with seemingly 14 ignorance in the field and non-managerial skills, it 15 just -- 16 Q Does that -- excuse me. 17 A -- makes for bad feelings. 18 Q Did you have occasion to specifically observe what you 19 understood to be ignorance of Mr. DeWald in field 20 matters? l 21 A Some, just based upon things that have been said over I , 22 the years, some just on the fact that I worked for the l l 23 guy for two years; and, obviously, after two years you j 24 get an idea of just what sort of knowledge a person has, i (} 25 or lack of knowledge. Sonntaq Reporting Service, Ltd. I Geneva, Illinois 60134 l (312) 232-0262 l l
5964 1 Q Did you have occasion to go to Mr, DeWald with questions 2 you had about conditions you found in the field? 3 A Not anything specific I recall, offhand. 4 If I had any questions, he would probably be the 5 last person I would go to. 6 0 Would it be fair to say that you didn't like Mr. DeWald? 7 A Yes. 8 Q Was Mr. DeWald the individual who hired you? 9 A No, he was not. 10 Q Do you recall who did? 11 A I.believe it was a personnel man out of their office, 12 out of the Comstock office in Chicago. O 13 As far as -- well, the way it was set up, you would 14 call there and send in a resume and then call the guy 15 again and he would more or less just tell you if you 16 were hired or not. 17 As far as who actually looked over the resumes and 18 decided who got hired, I have no idea. 19 Q Can you give us any specific examples of any of your 20 experiences with Mr. DeWald that would lead you to have 21 formed the opinion that you have of him? 22 A Offhand -- you know, I didn't take notes over the last 23 , two years of everything that he did or said. 24 Q I understand. (} 25 A All I can give you is just my feelings after working for Sonntag Reporting Service, Ltd. Ueneva, 1111nois 6u134 (312) 232-0262
5965 1 him for two years, just on a daily basis. 2 Q You had mentioned Mr. Puckett earlier, Mr. Peterson. 3 Did you know Mr. Puckett -- how did you know Mr. 4 Puckett, I will put it this way? 5 A I just -- I had very little to do with him at the time 6 he was there. I was working in another area, so -- 7 Q You were not working with the welding area while Mr. 8 Puckett was there? 9 A I was -- you see, the cable pan weld project was 10 different than the hanger weld project. So he was 11 involved in a separate deal than I was. 12 Q Did you have enough contact with him or did you have 13 enough of an opportunity to observe him in order to be 14 able to form an opinion as to his competency? 15 A No, I can't formulate any opinion on him. 16 Q Did you have any understanding as to what position he 17 was hired to fill? 18 A I believe it was a position as a Level 3. 19 Q After Mr. Puckett left -- well, strike that. 20 Did you have any understanding as to the 21 circumstances surrounding Mr. Puckett's departure from 22 the site? 23 A Just through hearsay; no firsthand knowledge. 24 0 What, generally, did that hearsay say? (} 25 A From what I had heard, it was basically he had issued a Sonntag Reporting Service, Ltd. Geneva, Illinois 60134 (312) 232-0262
5966 1 stop work order on the welding -- exactly why, I don't 2 know -- and the fact that the Comstock management, 3 apparently, felt that it wasn't warranted and fired him 4 because of it. 5 But, like I say, that's just hearsay. 6 Q Do you recall when you first heard this? 7 A No. 8 Q Have you read any newspaper articles about that topic or 9 about this proceeding generally? 10 A I have read newspaper articles, yes. 11 Q Do you recall whether any of them dealt with Mr. 12 Puckett? O 13 A I am sure they have, yeah. 14 Q Do you recall whether you heard anything around the time 15 period that he was terminated, and I will represent for 16 you that that was in August of 1984? 17 A I don't recall. 18 Q Okay. Since August of 1984, which is, as I represented 19 to you, when Mr. Puckett was terminated from employment 20 by Comstock at Braidwood, did you have occasion to 21 observe any changes in the welding program? 22 A That's a pretty broad term there, " changes." 23 Changes in what? 24 Q In the -- () 25 A You know, there were changes made over the couple of Sonntag Reporting Service, Ltd. ueneva, Illinois culae (312) 232-0262
F 5967 O 1 years that I was there, fortunately, a lot of them for 2 the better as far as their forms and the way they 3 started doing certain things. 4 They initiated a WIR program, Weld Installation 5 Report, which I thought was much needed. 6 Q Did you have an understanding as to who was responsible 7 for those changes that you have just identified? 8 A I know there were a lot of changes made after Tony 9 Simile came into effect. A lot of the changes that were 10 made were changes that a lot of the inspectors were 11 trying to get management to make.
- 12 They finally got somebody in there that, 13 apparently, they would listen to, Tony, and that, 14 apparently, had enough power in the organization to get 15 things changed.
16 MS. KEZELIS: I have no further questions. 17 JUDGE GROSSMAN: Okay. You don't want to go 18 ahead now, do you? 19 MS. CHAN: I can ask some of my questions now 20 and then follow Mr. Guild's examination tomorrow if you 21 wish. 22 I only have a couple of questions. 23 JUDGE COLE: Why don't we do that? We have 24 got some time. () 25 JUDGE GROSSMAN: All right. Proceed. Sonntaq Reporting Service, Ltd. Geneva, Illinois 60134 (312) 232-0262
5968 O 1 CROSS EXAMINATION 2 BY MS. CHAN 3 Q Mr. Peterson, I would like to show you a Notice to 4 Employees. It's published by the NRC. It sets forth 5 the protections afforded employees who bring matters to 6 the attention of the NRC. 7 Have you seen this posted on the site? 8 A Oh, yes. 9 Q Were you aware of this at the time you went to the NRC 10 in March? 11 A Yes. 12 MR. GUILD: Mr. Chairman, one more time, we O~ 13 are not certain what version of the notice that document 14 is. 15 If counsel could identify the number for the 16 record, please, the exhibit number? 17 MS. CHAN: It's Applicant Exhibit 39. 18 MR. GUILD: Thank you. 19 BY MS. CHAN: r 20 Q Mr. Peterson, did you have occasion to meet with Mr. 21 Neisler of the NRC? I 22 He is an NRC investigator. 23 A You are talking about the fellow right there next to 24 you? () 25 (Indicating.) Sonntag Reporting Service, Ltd. Geneva, 1111nois bu134 (312) 232-0262
5969 %)3 1 Q Yes, sitting to my right. 2 A Yes, I did. 3 It was a scheduled appointment that they had made, 4 not me. 5 Q At the time that you met with Mr. Neisler, were you 6 aware that the NRC was conducting an investigation based 7 on the allegations that were raised in the March 29th 8 meeting that you attended? 9 A No, I wasn't. 10 I just received a phone call to go to the Quality 11 First trailer and see a gentleman from the NRC, and that fs 12 was the only knowledge that I had had that anything was b 13 going on. 14 0 In the meeting you had with Mr. Neisler, did he discuss 15 the allegations that you had brought up in that meeting? 16 A Yes, we did. 17 0 would you like to tell me what allegations you had 18 brought up in the meeting? 19 THE WITNESS: You are concerning the 20 allegations in Exhibit 63? 21 MS. CHAN: 42-A. 22 MS. KEZELIS: It is 42-A. 23 MR. MILLER: 42-A. 24 THE WITNESS: This right here? (} 25 (Indicating.) Sonntag Reporting Service, Ltd. Geneva, Illinois 60134 (312) 232-0262
5970 O 1 MS. KEZELIS: Yes. 2 BY MS. CHAN: 3 0 It was the one in which your name was misspelled? 4 A Yes, correct. 5 Q Do you recall discussing any of those concerns with Mr. 6 Neisler at the time? 7 A Yes, I believe we did. ' 8 Q Did you realize that Mr. Neisler was going to rely on 9 the information that you were giving him in his 10 investigation? 11 A I hadn't thought about it, no. I -- 12 (Indicating.) 13 Q Mr. Peterson, at that time around the beginning of 14 April, the end of March, 1985, were you residing at 18 15 Richards Street, Kankakee, Illinois? 16 A Yes. 17 MS. CHAN: I would like to show you a 18 document and I would like to mark this Staff Exhibit for 19 identification -- , 20 JUDGE GROSSMAN: 5. 21 MS. CHAN: -- 5. 22 (The document was thereupon marked Staff's 23 Exhibit No. 5 for identification as of i 24 June 26, 1986.) () 25 BY MS. CHAN: Sonntag Reporting Service, Ltd. , ueneva, Illinois cu1Je (312) 232-0262
5971 O 1 Q Mr. Peterson, in your earlier testimony you had said you 2 received a copy of the April 5th letter from Charles 3 Weil marked as Intervenors' Exhibit 42-A and that you 4 had noticed that your name had been misspelled and you 5 went to the NRC the next day to correct an error in the 6 spelling and also an error about your understanding that 7 you were not threatened that you would lose your job if 8 you did not increase your efficiency. 9 I am showing you a letter, which was the cover 10 letter to the document you received from the NRC. 11 In the first paragraph -- if you could take a 12 moment to read that. O 13 A Okay. 14 Q Does it say there that the NRC is conducting an 15 investigation and will provide you with the results of 16 that? 17 A Yes, it does. l ! 18 Q Does looking at that letter refresh your recollection as ( 19 to the follow-up of the correspondence that you received ! 20 from the NRC? l 21 A I believe I do recall receiving that letter, yes. l 22 MS. CHAN: At this time I would like to move l 23 Staff Exhibit 5 into evidence? l 24 JUDGE GROSSMAN: Is there any objection? () 25 MS. KEZELIS: Applicant has no objection. Sonntag Reporting Service, Ltd. Geneva, Illinois 60134 (312) 232-0262 t b
5972 1 JUDGE GROSSMAN: Received. 2 (The document was thereupon received into 3 evidence as Staff's Exhibit No. 5.) 4 BY MS. CHAN: 5 Q Mr. Peterson, do you recall receiving some time 6 thereafter a document from the NRC, which was fairly 7 thick, that discussed your allegations and the 8 conclusions of the NRC Staff? 9 A I believe I did, yes. 10 Q Does that refresh your memory that an investigation was 11 actually conducted and included the information that you 12 had supplied to Mr. Neisler? 13 A I believe so. 14 Q I believe you testified earlier that Mr. Walters and Mr. 15 Worthington had a meeting with you and in that meeting 16 they compared your productivity with that of another 17 unidentified inspector in an effort to explain why they 18 didn't feel they could justify giving you overtime. 19 Do you recall that in your testimony? 20 A Yes. 21 Q Do you agree that if all inspectors were doing the same 22 quality of work, that it might be -- excuse me -- that 23 management might prefer to allocate its overtime funds 24 to workers with the highest productivity? () 25 A At that particular time, yes. Sonntag Reporting Service, Ltd. Geneva, 1111nois 60134 (312) 232-0262
5973 O 1 MS. CHAN: Staff has no further questions at 2 this time. 3 JUDGE GROSSMAN: Let's go off the record.- 4 (There followed a discussion outside the 5 record.) 6 JUDGE GROSSMAN: Let's go back on the record. i 7 We will recess then until tomorrow morning at 8:30. 8 Ncw we are adjourned. 9 MS. KEZELIS: The instruction to the witness, 10 please, Judge. 11 JUDGE GROSSMAN: Yes. Please don't discuss q 12 your testimony with anyone, not just today but after LJ 13 tomorrow's testimony, too. 14 THE WITNESS: Okay. You bet. 15 JUDGE GROSSMAN: We will recess then until 16 tomorrow morning at 8:30. Now we are adjourned. 17 (WHEREUPON, at the hour of 4:55 p. m., the 18 hearing of the above-entitled matter was l 19 continued to the 27th day of June, 1986, 20 at the hour of 8:30 A. M.) 21 22 23 24 l () 25 Sonntag Reporting Service r Ltd. Geneva, Illinois 60134 (312) 232-0262
NO PAGE NUMBER CERTIFICATE OF OFFICIAL REPORTER tm b This is to certify that the attached proceedings before the UNITED STATES NUCLEAR REGULATORY COMMISSION in the matter of: NAME OF PROCEEDING: COMMONWEALTH EDISON COMPANY (Braidwood Station, Units 1 & 2) DOCKET NO.: 50-456 OL; 50-457 OL PLACE: JOLIET, ILLINOIS DATE: THURSDAY, JUNE 26, 1986 were - held as herein appears, and that this is the original transcript thereof for the file of the United States Nuclear Regulatory Commission. (sigt) dALCGf (TYPED) Nancy I. Iloph U Official Reporter Reporter's Affiliation O _}}