ML110730373
| ML110730373 | |
| Person / Time | |
|---|---|
| Site: | Vermont Yankee  |
| Issue date: | 03/08/2011 |
| From: | Mulligan M - No Known Affiliation |
| To: | Office of Nuclear Reactor Regulation |
| References | |
| NRC-771 | |
| Download: ML110730373 (1) | |
Text
Official Transcript of Proceedings NUCLEAR REGULATORY COMMISSION
Title:
10 CFR 2.206 Petition RE Vermont Yankee Docket Number: (n/a)
Location: (telephone conference)
Date: Tuesday, March 8, 2011 Work Order No.: NRC-771 Pages 1-22 IORIGINAL NEAL R. GROSS AND CO., INC.
Court Reporters and Transcribers 1323 Rhode Island Avenue, N.W.
Washington, D.C. 20005 (202) 234-4433
1 1 UNITED STATES OF AMERICA 2 NUCLEAR REGULATORY COMMISSION 3
4 10 CFR 2.206 PETITION REVIEW BOARD (PRB) 5 CONFERENCE CALL 6 RE 7 VERMONT YANKEE 8
9 TUESDAY 10 MARCH 8, 2011 11 12 The conference call was held, Theodore 13 Quay, Chairman of the Petition Review Board, 14 presiding.
15 PETITIONER: MICHAEL MULLIGAN 16 PETITION REVIEW BOARD MEMBERS:
17 THEODORE QUAY, Deputy Director, Division of 18 Policy and Rulemaking, NRR 19 JAMES KIM, Petition Manager for 2.206 Petition 20 TANYA MENSAH, Petition Coordinator 21 22 23 24 25 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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2 1 NRC HEADQUARTERS STAFF:
2 STACEY L. ROSENBERG, Branch Chief, Generic 3 Communications & Power Uprate 4 NANCY SALGADO, Branch Chief, Division of 5 Operating Reactor Licensing, NRR 6 BONNIE SCHNETZLER, Reactor Security Rulemaking 7 and Licensing Branch, Office of Nuclear 8 Security and Incident Response 9 NRC REGION I STAFF:
10 THOMAS SETZER, Division of 11 Reactor Projects 12 13 ALSO PRESENT:
14 JIM DEVINCENTIS, Entergy Nuclear Operations 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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3 1 TABLE OF CONTENTS 2 Page 3 Welcome and Introductions 4 James Kim ......................... 4 5 Opening Remarks 6 Ted Quay .......................... 7 7 Petitioner's Presentation 8 Michael Mulligan .................. 11 9 Question and Answer Session ............ 20 10 Closing Remarks 11 Ted Quay .......................... 22 12 Adjourn ................................. 23 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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4 1 P RO C E E D I NG S 2 (10:02 a.m.)
3 MR. KIM: Good morning. I would like to 4 thank everyone for attending this meeting. My name is 5 James Kim and I am the Vermont Yankee Project Manager.
6 We are here today to allow the Petition, 7 Mr. Michael Mulligan to address the Petition Review 8 Board regarding 2.206 Petition dated February 24, 9 2011.
10 I am the Petition Manager for the 11 Petition. The Petition Review Board Chairman is Ted 12 Quay.
13 As a part of the Petition Review Board's 14 review of this petition, Mr. Michael Mulligan has 15 requested this opportunity to address the Petition 16 Review Board.
17 This meeting is scheduled from 10:00 to 18 11:00 AM. The meeting is being recorded by the NRC 19 Operations Center and will be transcribed by a court 20 reporter. The transcript will become a supplement to 21 the petition. The transcript will also be made 22 publicly available.
23 I would like to open this meeting with 24 introductions. As we go around the room, please be 25 sure to clearly state your name, your position, and NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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5 1 the office that you work for within the NRC for the 2 record. I'll start off.
3 This is James Kim. I am a project manager 4 for the Division of Operating Reactor Licensing in 5 NRR.
6 MS. MENSAH: Tanya Mensah, the 2.206 7 Coordinator, Office of Nuclear Reactor Regulations.
8 MS. ROSENBERG: Stacey Rosenberg, Branch 9 Chief of Generic Communications and Power Uprates, 10 Office of Nuclear Reactor Regulations.
11 CHAIRMAN QUAY: Ted Quay, Deputy Director 12 of Division of Policy and Rulemaking, Office of 13 Nuclear Reactor Regulation.
14 MR. KIM: At this time, are there any NRC 15 participants from the Headquarters on the phone?
16 MS. SALGADO: This is Nancy Salgado. I am 17 a Branch Chief in the Division of Operator Reactor 18 Licensing NRR.
19 MR. KIM: Are there any NRC participants 20 from the Regional Office on the phone?
21 MR. SETZER: Yes, hello. This is Thomas 22 Setzer. I am a Senior Project Engineer in Region I 23 for the Division of Reactor Projects.
24 MR. KIM: Are there any representatives 25 for the licensee on the phone?
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6 1 MR. DEVINCENTIS: Yes, this is Jim 2 Devincentis of Entergy Nuclear Operations.
3 MR. KIM: Mr. Mulligan, would you please 4 introduce yourself for the record?
5 MR. MULLIGAN: I'm Mike Mulligan and I am 6 a whistle blower, and I have worked in the industry in 7 the past.
8 MR. KIM: Thank you. It is not required 9 for the members of the public to introduce themselves 10 for this call. However, if there are any members of 11 the public on the phone that wish to do so at this 12 time, please state your name for the record.
13 (No response.)
14 MR. KIM: Hearing none, I would like to 15 emphasize that we each need to speak clearly and 16 loudly to make sure that the court reporter can 17 accurately transcribe this meeting. If you do have 18 something that you would like to say, please first 19 state your name for the record.
20 For those dialing into the meeting, please 21 remember to mute your phones to minimize any 22 background noise or distractions. If you do not have 23 a mute button, this can be done by pressing the keys 24 *6. To un-mute press the *6 keys again. Thank you.
25 At this time, I'll turn it over to the PRB NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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7 1 Chairman, Ted Quay.
2 CHAIRMAN QUAY: Good morning. Welcome to 3 this meeting regarding the 2.206 petition submitted by 4 Mr. Mulligan.
5 I'd like to first share some background on 6 our process. Section 2.206 of Title 10 of the Code of 7 Federal Regulations describes the petition process, 8 the primary mechanism for the public to request 9 enforcement action by the NRC in a public process.
10 This process permits anyone to petition the NRC to 11 take enforcement-type action related to NRC licensees 12 or licensed activities.
13 Depending on the results of its 14 evaluation, NRC could modify, suspend, or revoke an 15 NRC-issued license or take any other appropriate 16 enforcement action to resolve a problem. The NRC 17 staff's guidance for the disposition of 2.206 petition 18 requests is in Management Directive 8.11, which is 19 publicly available.
20 The purpose of today's meeting is to give 21 the petitioner an opportunity to provide any 22 additional explanation or support for the petition 23 before the Petition Review Board's initial 24 consideration and recommendation.
25 This meeting is not a hearing, nor is it an NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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8 1 opportunity for the petitioner to question or examine 2 the PRB on the merits or the issues presented in the 3 petition request.
4 No decisions regarding the merits of this 5 petition will be made at this meeting.
6 Following this meeting, the Petition Review 7 Board will conduct its internal deliberations. The 8 outcome of this internal meeting will be discussed 9 with the petitioner.
10 The Petition Review Board typically consists 11 of a Chairman, usually a manager at the senior 12 executive service level at the NRC. It has a Petition 13 Manager and a Petition Review Board Coordinator.
14 Other members of the Board are determined by the NRC 15 staff based on the content of the information in the 16 petition request.
17 At this time, I would like to introduce the 18 Board. I am Ted Quay, the Petition Review Board 19 Chairman. James Kim is the Petition Manager for the 20 petition under discussion today. Tanya Mensah is the 21 office's Petition Review Board Coordinator.
22 Our technical staff includes Bonnie 23 Schnetzler from the Reactor Security Rulemaking and 24 Licensing Branch in the Office of Nuclear Security and 25 Incident Response and Thomas Setzer from NRC's Region NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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9 1 I Division of Reactor Projects.
2 As described in our process, the NRC staff 3 may ask clarifying questions in order to better 4 understand the petitioner's presentation and to reach 5 a reasoned decision whether to accept or reject the 6 petitioner's requests for review under the 2.206 7 process.
8 I would like to summarize the scope of the 9 petition under consideration and the NRC activities to 10 date.
11 On February 24, 2011, Mr. Mulligan submitted 12 to the NRC a petition under 2.206 concerning the 13 Entergy's release of a public relations video, which 14 Mr. Mulligan believes releases security-related 15 information of the plant to the nation and beyond.
16 In this petition, Mr. Mulligan requested 17 emergency shutdown of Vermont Yankee because you 18 stated that the Brattleboro Reformer released a video 19 which was provided by Entergy from their website 20 detailing the Vermont Yankee control room and vital 21 security-related information throughout the plant.
22 You believe that the video provided visual 23 cues to possible terrorists, including the location of 24 all ECCS controls and other details which should not 25 be made known to the public.
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10 1 Allow me to discuss the NRC activities to 2 date. On March 3, 2011, you requested to address the 3 Petition Review Board to provide supplemental 4 information for the Board's consideration prior to 5 Petition Review Board's internal meeting to make an 6 initial recommendation.
7 On March 3, 2011, the PRB met internally to 8 discuss the request for immediate action. The PRB 9 denied the request for immediate action because there 10 was no immediate safety concern to the plant, or to 11 the health and safety of the public. In addition, 12 there was no release of anything sensitive or 13 security-related. The PRB concluded that the video 14 had been edited and controlled by Entergy for security 15 purposes.
16 On March 3, 2011, you were informed of the 17 PRB's decisions on the immediate action.
18 As a reminder for the phone participants, 19 please identify yourself if you make any remarks, as 20 this will help in the preparation of the meeting 21 transcript that will be made publicly available.
22 Thank you.
23 And at this point, Mr. Mulligan, I'm going 24 to turn it over to you.
25 MR. MULLIGAN: I can remember when I was an NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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11 1 employee working at Vermont Yankee and I was getting 2 fired, I was in the process of getting fired. I had 3 six whistle blower suits pending and it was pretty 4 bleak.
5 And one day it was actually I am being 6 followed around the plant by this security official, 7 the on-shift supervisor. And I am really afraid that 8 this guy is following me around. And I am saying well 9 I am going to get fired tomorrow. They want to make 10 sure that I don't do anything crazy and stuff like 11 that.
12 So he is following me around the plant and 13 you know, I am going in and out. And I am watching 14 this guy and he is quite a distance away from me. And 15 I can see his face; it is all nervous and tense. And 16 so you know, my heart is racing, beating, almost 17 coming out of my chest I am so scared.
18 And so finally I say to myself, you know 19 what, I am sick and tired of this. And I said, I am 20 just going to turn around. I am going to talk to the 21 guy and it doesn't matter what happens. I am just 22 going to figure out what is going on and make myself 23 comfortable.
24 So I turned around and I go up to him. And 25 certainly his face is really tense and stuff. And I NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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12 1 said, "What is going on here?" And so then he starts.
2 And so I talk about the weather and I get a little 3 comfortable. And basically, he says I've got 4 something to tell you, Mike, and you can do with this 5 information anything you want.
6 And he goes on and talks to me about 7 security problems they were having with the fence 8 motion detector and how they are having troubles with 9 the cameras and stuff. And he reminds me that Gate 1, 10 the security gate, the main security gate, is all old 11 and decrepit and all the equipment is not working.
12 And he is just disgusted with the place and stuff.
13 And so you know, I didn't know what to do.
14 I didn't know if it was a setup or what have you.
15 What do you do with something like that? Why does 16 somebody come up to you in a plant? Especially this 17 is the senior security guy on shift and wants me to 18 handle his problems and stuff like that.
19 So anyways I think about it and I think that 20 T am going to disclose security events to outside 21 people and stuff like that. You know, am I going to 22 get in trouble and stuff. And basically I wrote a 23 letter up to my lawyer and I detailed, and we had a 24 phone call discussion and stuff. I told him what was 25 going on.
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13 1 And within a couple of days, they had a 2 security team down at Vermont Yankee. They found 3 everything that I said as accurate. They also within 4 a short period went into a construction phase and they 5 rebuilt the main security gate, the Gate number one, 6 the main security gate and stuff like that. So in 7 essence, they repaired all the sensor motion detectors 8 and all that sort of stuff.
9 And that essentially, you know, set me up as 10 somebody that could be talked to with Vermont Yankee 11 security issues. And I always felt very uncomfortable 12 with the whole deal and stuff like that with this.
13 And we had issues to the lead up to 9/11.
14 I was involved with security employees and talking and 15 stuff like that. I was talking to the state and all 16 this sort of stuff.
17 Of course, two weeks before 9/11, Vermont 18 Yankee failed its security exam and to a large part, 19 the NRC, I suspect, and state officials, I suspect, 20 were aware of my concerns or aware of the security 21 employees' concerns. And once 9/11 happened of 22 course, then -- Well before that they failed their 23 exam within weeks, within a week or two and stuff.
24 And then after 9/11 it came out that they failed the 25 exam.
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14 1 And well you know, then there was a pretty 2 good recovery. Then everybody took it serious and a 3 lot of things were done and stuff.
4 And so that has always been the issue. You 5 know? It is not security-related issues. You know, 6 I have had a footprint over -- People say I shaped the 7 security stance at Vermont Yankee over a number of 8 years because of my relationship with employees and 9 what have you. Probably the only place in the United 10 States.
11 But always the issue always has been with 12 security-related issues. What is doing good and what 13 is doing bad. You know, everything has, you know, 14 every tool you have you can use it in a good manner or 15 you can use it in a bad manner. You can use it to 16 hide things or you can use that same tool to open up 17 the world for everybody and let them see what is going 18 on. And then everything starts to repair itself and 19 stuff. That has always been the issue with Vermont 20 Yankee security.
21 And a lot of times you get in these 22 officials and 9/11 certainly shows you that. A lot of 23 times they get into the protective mode and they put 24 everything under secrecy, being secret and it is not 25 to protect us. It is to protect themselves. It is to NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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15 1 protect the NRC, for the officials to protect their 2 own jobs and stuff like that. It has nothing to do 3 with protecting the community and stuff. And over 20 4 years, I have seen that. I have seen a lot of these 5 issues where people are protecting themselves.
6 Last year, or two years ago, you know, I was 7 involved in some stuff with Vermont Yankee and the 8 next thing you know, I get two FBI guys at my house.
9 Well, they gave me a call and I was down to the police 10 station talking about what I know and stuff. And you 11 know that whole issue with Vermont Yankee doing their 12 training down in Massachusetts and stuff and bothering 13 people with their guns. You know, the whole thing and 14 stuff like that. I mean, that is what it was about.
15 So again, it is the issue of what is doing 16 good. Is secrecy? You know, do you allow a set of 17 officials to define what security-related matter is?
18 And how do you know what interest they are pushing?
19 You know, is it their own interest or is it the 20 community's interest? How do you know?
21 As far as the secrecy-related issues, are 22 they hiding something? You know, are they using 23 national security or terrorism-related events to hide 24 their sins? You know, well the terrorists are coming 25 and we have got to hide everything. And you know, we NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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16 1 have got to put everything under a security shield and 2 then nobody gets to see what is going on until 3 something big happens. And that is what you worry 4 about. These things are security can -- or secrecy 5 and security-related health interests could end up 6 pushing it into a deeper problem and protecting you 7 from terrorists.
8 This transparency and secrecy, you know, it 9 is a two-edged sword, a two-edged sword and stuff.
10 And you know, I trust the community people. I mean, we 11 are tired of being treated as terrorists first. You 12 know we question Vermont Yankee's security. We 13 question, talk to the NRC about it, and stuff like 14 that. And the first thing, you know, people don't 15 want to talk about it. They assume you are a 16 terrorist. They assume that people around Vermont 17 Yankee are the terrorists and they tend to hide their 18 faults and sins so that the terrorists can take 19 advantage of the situation.
20 So that -- I mean, I am just trying to give 21 people some background here on where we stand.
22 You know, the big problem I have is with the 23 door, I mean, the control room door and around that.
24 I mean, that plays no role whatsoever with the film.
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17 1 as a typical public relation ploy but the door was the 2 thing that bothered me the most and nobody -- I mean, 3 the big deal with this was that the door wasn't, Mr.
4 Quay didn't talk about the door being --
5 You see the size of the door, the thickness, 6 the mechanism in the background. You know, you get a 7 lot of details, security details out of that. And I 8 don't think that was appropriate to show to the public 9 or anybody else.
10 Also we noticed that all fuel, the spent 11 fuel pad out there, you showed inside the pad. You 12 know, you have got a wooden fence around it. What is 13 the wooden fence for? Is it security-related so 14 people don't have any visual cues of what is inside 15 there? That is what this seems to be. Or maybe you 16 don't want people taking pictures from a distance of 17 those pads. I don't know.
18 It looks to me as though that wooden fence 19 around the pad is security-related. You don't want 20 anybody to really have any cues of what is behind 21 there and it makes sense to me. And then you go 22 inside there with a camera and you show everything?
23 It just doesn't, the whole thing doesn't make sense.
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18 1 Vermont Yankee looking at everything. The next thing, 2 they are showing a video of basically the same thing.
3 It doesn't make sense, as far as what is to be shown 4 and what not to be shown.
5 And so the door is one and the pad is the 6 other that I have issues with. And it is the general 7 idea that how do we trust. If everything is secret 8 from the community, how do we trust the government and 9 Entergy to do the bidding of our interests? How do we 10 do that? I mean, if everything is secret about 11 security and very little public knowledge of what is 12 going on, how do we trust the system to act in our 13 interest? You can't. There is just no way you could.
14 From all this stuff over 20 years, you can't 15 trust people really doing things behind our backs and 16 expecting them to act in our interests. The only way 17 it really works is that the public is involved and if 18 they can see shortcomings and criticize what is going 19 on and stuff like that, and see what is going on and 20 participate.
21 You know it is a tradeoff. It is a tradeoff 22 on both ways. Just pure security and secrecy doesn't 23 work and stuff. It really doesn't.
24 And so I mean, that is the problem we have 25 in general with security at the nuclear plants here.
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19 1 Security --
2 I mean, how does the public verify that all 3 this stuff is being done in our interests? How do we 4 know that you aren't using rules to hide things 5 instead of fix things and stuff?
6 I mean and the industry has had a history 7 with that; sleeping guards and all sorts of stuff in 8 the past and stuff. And so the question is, you know, 9 what is the proper role of the public involvement and 10 what they can see and how do they protect themselves?
11 And I think that is what a lot of this issue is about.
12 And we don't think that the community being assumed to 13 being terrorists first is something we can live with.
14 And thank you very much for this opportunity 15 to talk to you.
16 CHAIRMAN QUAY: Okay. At this time, does 17 the Staff here at Headquarters have any questions for 18 Mr. Mulligan?
19 MS. MENSAH: Mr. Mulligan, this is Tanya 20 Mensah. I am the 2.206 Coordinator. And I just had 21 a couple of questions for my clarification, if you 22 don't mind.
23 MR. MULLIGAN: Sure.
24 MS. MENSAH: The first one was when we first 25 opened, you were talking about some of the NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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20 1 interactions you had while you were still an employee 2 of Entergy and you mentioned --
3 MR. MULLIGAN: No, I wasn't. Entergy didn't 4 own the plant at the time. That was 20 years ago.
5 MS. MENSAH: Oh, okay. That was my 6 question. I was trying to clarify the time frame that 7 this happened. So you are saying that was 20 years 8 ago?
9 MR. MULLIGAN: 1999, yes. That was when I 10 was an employee, a licensed operator.
11 MS. MENSAH: Okay. And you made several 12 statements, I thought. I wanted to make sure I 13 understood that you have been -- I guess you said they 14 come to you on issues regarding security now. And I 15 was trying to clarify who is coming to you to consult.
16 Are you consulting? I just didn't understand the 17 context of your comment.
18 MR. MULLIGAN: Well, the example was that 19 back in 2001, Vermont Yankee guards met me up in 20 Brattleboro and made appointments to meet me and they 21 talked about the troubles they were having. And I 22 mean, Entergy didn't own the security firm at the time 23 and stuff. You know, they weren't -- Wait a minute, 24 1991. Right. So Entergy wasn't involved in it.
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21 1 about, you know, poor working conditions, not enough 2 pay, and certain aspects of security in general and 3 stuff like that. And then I went around, I think I 4 wrote a letter to the NRC. I certainly talked to a 5 lot of state people.
6 Does that answer your question?
7 MS. MENSAH: Yes, it does. Thank you.
8 CHAIRMAN QUAY: Seeing no more questions in 9 Headquarters, does the Region have any questions?
10 MR. SETZER: No questions in the Region.
11 Thank you.
12 CHAIRMAN QUAY: Okay. Before I conclude the 13 meeting, members of the public may provide comments 14 regarding the petition and ask questions about the 15 2.206 petition process. However, as stated at the 16 opening, the purpose of this meeting is to not provide 17 an opportunity for the petitioner or the public to 18 question or examine the Petition Review Board 19 regarding the merits of the petition request.
20 No members of the public identified 21 themselves initially. Are there any members of the 22 public that are on the phone now that wish to comment?
23 (Pause.)
24 CHAIRMAN QUAY: Does the licensee have any 25 comments?
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22 1 MR. DEVINCENTIS: Entergy has no comments.
2 CHAIRMAN QUAY: Mr. Mulligan, thank you for 3 taking time to provide the NRC Staff with clarifying 4 information on the petition you've submitted.
5 Before we close, does the court reporter 6 need any additional information for the meeting 7 transcript?
8 COURT REPORTER: Mr. Chairman, there were 9 just a couple names that I had questions about. The 10 spelling of Jim, I think it was, Devincentis.
11 MR. DEVINCENTIS: Yes, this is Jim 12 Devincentis. The last name is D, as in David, E-V, as 13 in Victor, I-N-C-E-N-T-I-S.
14 COURT REPORTER: Thank you. Mr. Chairman, 15 you also mentioned the name it sounded like Bonnie 16 Smitzler.
17 CHAIRMAN QUAY: Schnetzler, and I will spell 18 that out for you. S-C-H-N-E-T-Z-L-E-R.
19 COURT REPORTER: Okay, thank you. That's 20 all.
21 CHAIRMAN QUAY: Okay, thank you. With that, 22 this meeting is concluded and we will be terminating 23 the phone connection. Thank you.
24 (Whereupon, at 10:30 a.m., the foregoing 25 conference call was adjourned.)
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CERTIFICATE This is to certify that the attached proceedings before the United States Nuclear Regulatory Commission in the matter of: Vermont Yankee Name of Proceeding: 10 CFR 2.206 Petition of:
Michael Mulligan Docket Number: (n/a)
Location: Telephone Conference were held as herein appears, and that this is the original transcript thereof for the file of the United States Nuclear Regulatory Commission taken by me and, thereafter reduced to typewriting by me or under the direction of the court reporting company, and that the transcript is a true and accurate record of the foregoing proceedings.
Eric Mollet Official Reporter Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.
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