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Transcript of 830325 Interview W/Vh Tennyson Re Alleged Deficiencies in Implementation of HP Foley Const Co QA Program
Person / Time
Site: Diablo Canyon Pacific Gas & Electric icon.png
Issue date: 03/25/1983
From: Tennyson V
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ML17083B154 List:
Download: ML20023C179 (73)



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5 Conference Roo.?

100 Van Mess Street 6 19th Floor San Francisco, California 7

Friday, 8 March 25, 1983 9

10 The above intervieu cas held at 1:57 p.m.,

11 pursuant to notice.





U.S. Nuclear Regulatory Commission 15 1450 Maria Lane Suite 210 16 Walnut Creek, California 94596


Counsel for Virgil H. Tennyson 18 Jones, Brown and Clifford '

100 Van Ness Street, 19th Floor l 3 19 San Francisco, California


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_P _R _O _C _E _E _D _I _N _G _S 2 MR. POWER: Today is March 2.5, 1933 and the 3 time is 1:57 p.m. This is an interview of Mr. Virgil H. l 4 Tennyson who is a forraer Quality Assurance Manager for l t

5 Foley Electric Company at Diablo Canyon Nuclear Generating 6 Station, Avila Beach, California.

7 This interview is being conducted in the law 8 office located on the 19th floor at 100 Van Ness Avenue, !i 9 Sun Francisco, Californie.

l 10 The purpose of the interview is to discuss with j 11 Mr. Tennyson his knowledge of the installation activities ,

i t

12 of Foley Electric Company at the Nuclear Construction site 13 and any other possible, if any, wrong doings at the site. l


14 My name is Eugene J. Power. I am an investigator l 15 with the United States Nuclear Regulatory Agency. This !

16 individual is Mr. Thomas W. Bishop. He's Chief, Reactor g

17 Project Branch, Region V, United States Nuclear P.cgulatory j 18 Commission. On my right is John F. Burdoin, .T.ead Inspector i 19 also out of Region V, United States Nuclear Regulatory n ,

j 20 Commission. Also present during this interview is Mr. Yale I.


21 Jones, attorney for Mr. Tennyson.

3 f 22 And Mr. Tennyson, are you willing to be interviewed s

j 23 at this time?

l 24 MR. TENNYEUN: Yes, I am. I i

25 MR. POWER: Are you villing to be intervieue<1 !

(~ !

1 4 i 1 '

under oath?

2 MR. TENNYSON: Yes, I am.

3 MR. POWER: Would you please stand and raise 4

your right hand?

5 Whereupon, 6 VIRGIL H. TENNYSON i

7 v'.s called as a witness by the Regulatory Staff, having 8 been first duly sworn, was exanined and testified as f I

9 follows:


12 O For the purposes of identification, would you l

13 please state your full name and present residence? l i

14 A My name is Virgil F. Tennyson, and I reside 15 at 1220 North School Street, San Marina, California. !

t 16 Q And what was your present or last position with l ,

i 17 Foley Electric Corporation? ;

l 12 A Quality Control Manager. 1 i

19 Q And for what period of time did you occupy that '

20 position? i i

21 A A period of about approximately eight years, I 22 gueso, but during that eight years of manager I was possibly 23 three years of it or more Quality Assurance and Quality ,

24 Control Manager.

25 0 And do you recall specifically where you have '



5 l l


(. 1 now had the title, the last three years, can you give an 2 approximation of just the one quality assurance manager?

3 A I'm sorry, I didn't -- what are you asking? '

4 Q Do you know srecifically how long y6u have held !

5 this last position?

6 A As Quality Control Manager? !

7 Q Yes.

L 8 A Well, I have been for the last eight years. I 9 Q Oh, total?

l 10 A Yes.

11 Q And Quality Assurance?

12 A The dates, I don't know -- j 13 Q Approximately -- I'm not interested in tying you

(. 14 down to a specific -- I'n just trying to get a feel for i

15 your association and knowledge of Foley Electric? '

16 A Well, during that interim of eight years as

. 17 manager, I'd say three, three years of it or better was j 18 quality assurance manager, too.

g 19 Q okay. ,

20 A' At one time they called me Ouality Director. l J

l l 21 0 Primarily just a change of title rather than j a

l f 22 responsibility? I

I l 23 A Yes.

24 Q In generalizations now, can you give us a brier i

25 description of what your duties have entitled, specifically l



-- -- p -


o 0 6 t l

1 over the last few years?

l i

2 MR. JONES: Do you want him to ilescribe separately 3 the quality control function and the quality assurance 4 function?

5 MR. POWER: It doesn't make any difference to G me. No, he can put them together. We're interested in 7

mostly in what your responsibilities were over approximately 8 the last three years. !

9 THE WITNESS: The last three years. Well, during 10 the last three years I would have been involved in quality 11 assurance and quality control or over it. My responsibilities!

12 were to hire and train inspectors, quality engineers. I i

13 was in charge of doing spec review and writing procedures l 14 in accordance with the necessary codes and required codes 15 and standards, evaluating the procedures and distributing 13 and controlling the distribution of them, in having, enforcing l

17 the inspection in the field of the installations, to the i 18 procedures. That's about it.


20 Q Can you give an average figure of the number of 4

at individuals that you have supervised, say, within the 22 last three years. I don't know if that's gone up or down 1

23 drastically or not. ;

24 A It has fluctuated from probably 30 inspectors l 25 down to like 12 and then back up to very recently here we've t

l g


( 1 gone to about a hundred and I think rhen I left out there 2 it was 140 sone. That's total quality control personnel.

3 O So up to this 130 or 140, were they under your 4 supervision?

5 A Yes. s 6 Q And on what date were you terminated?

7 A I terminated March 3rd, 1982.

8 MR. BISHOP: 1983.

9 MR. JONES: 1983.

10 THE WITNESS: '83. I'm sorry.

11 BY MR. POWER: ,

S 12 Q Do you have experience in the crafts?

13 A Yes.


1-4 Q Nhich ones specifically?

15 A Well, I worked at Todd Shipyards for about 12, ,

16 13 years. During that period of time I worked as an 17 electrician, the machine shop in accordance with sheet g

j 18 metal procedures, shipboard installation of electrical, 19 j all electrical installations of cable, equipment.

j 20 Q An I correct in assuring then basically your i

j 21 crafts have been in the electrical field?

i 3

! d 22 A Not necessarily.

l 23 Q Ironworker also?

24 A And, well, no. I have not been an Ironworker.

25 Q Do you have any other expertise such as a welder k.



I as an example?

2 A I have had charge -- yes, I was in charge of 3 the welding inspection and writing the welding procedures 4 according to some of the information acquired fro. our 5 engineering group. During that period of time, over =y 6 past history I've worked -- I have done a lot of welding, 7 not professional welding but welding of my own, in the ship-8 yard during that time. I was in charge of the fabrication 9 of a lot of the installations that went into the ships, 10 inasnuch as drawing up the design for wireways, terminals, 11 you know, ternir.ation areas, things of tha t naturo into the 12 equier.ent, also setting the equipnent.

13 Q Can you give us an estimate of the total number L

14 of years you have in the craf ts?

15 -

MR. JONES: Do you r.e&n now where he was doing 16 hands on type funct'ioning?

17 MR. POWER: A combination of both, yes, and 18 this is again to get an evaludtion when we have to present 19 this information to our own Commission. They're very 20 much interested in you know, whet:.er or not you happen 21 to be a degreed engineer or whether or not you have' twenty 22 years in the crafts. It gives them a better evaluation.

23 THE WITNESS: Nell, the last nine years that 24 I worked for the Howard P. Foley Comoany at Diablo hs 25 has been over, moutly over the OA/OC program and prior to

. 9 1

that,back to whe- I went into the Air Force in January 2

of 1952/-fron that time on it was working with the crafts.

3 Q Basically then, fro ~ 1932 on except for the last 4

eight years a generalization 'rould he that you have 5

participated in the crafts?

6 1

A Yes.

7 Q Mr. Tennyson, could you tell us when you started 8

at Diablo Canyon, roughly what year was that?

9 A Febraury 4th, 1974.


11 Q Okay, so the plant was still under construction 12 at that time?

13 A Yes.

14 O Could you relate to us what typer of pressure 15

, you were subjected tc as Quality Assurance Manager?

l 16 A Well, I was under quite a constant pressure 17 i because I seemed to have been told many many times that 18 I was an necessary evil --

19 l Q Who told you this?

20 A This was by my supervision.

4 I Nould say, Skip i

l : 21 Moses at the most.

E a d 22 MR. POWER: That's M-o-s-e-s?

l 3 i 23 THE WITNESS: Yes.

t 24 MR. PONER: If you give a name, would you please 25 spell it?





1 THE WITNESS: Oh, I'm sorrv.

2 MR. POWER: No, no, that's all right. We didn't 3 explain it.


5 0 When he says, did he actually use those types 6 of words, necessary evil?

7 A Yes.

8 0 What was he intending by that?

9 A Really, that is sort of unknown for me to make 10 judgement on.

11 Q Okay, I recognize that.

12 Did he -- was this in a kidding vein or was he 13 specifically inferring that he didn't really think your 14 presence was necessary on the site?

15 tiR . JONES: I think again you ought to ask him, 16 ask Virgil how he perceived the man's tone because 17 for him to say what Skip Moses thought is really speculative.

18 MR. BISHOP: Certainly, fine.


20 Q Fine, can you tell us how you perceived that --

21 MR. JONES: Was he serious or was he kidding 22 when he said that?

23 THE NITNESS: I'did take it serious because 24 of the other things that had happened, I guess to bring

-25 this on and taking into consideration the pressure that I

11 1 was under and not only myself but the whole QC department 2 and OA departnent.

3 MR. PONZR: Would this recently occur -- say, 4 would you give us e feeling for the time frame '<? hen he, 5 when this --

6 THE WITNESS: "o, I felt the pressure for just 7 about the whole period of time.

8 MR. BISHOP: But in reference to a pressure 9 you indicated that this has occurred in conversations with I-i 10 Mr. Moses -- when was the last instance of such a conversa-1 11 tion where you obtained these feelings?

12 MR. JONES: Would it be better to start with --

13 I.think it might help you 4f he started uith the first

(' 14 instances you know, and then described what he experienced? ,

15 He's willing to do that. '

16 . MR. POWER: Hold ir a minute. Off the record.

17 (Discussion off the record.)


l 18 MR. POWER
On the record.

I j


1 j 20 Q Mr. Tennyson, could you tell us what pressures

, i '

j 21 you felt and where they car.e fron?

f 22 A Yes. My, the pressures came fron the various

! 23 meetings in the Howard P. Foley Conpany's project manager's

24 office, Sk.ip Moses and many times with Mr. Don Rockwell

25 of Pacific Gas and Electric Conpany who is now the Assistant j (

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.. .-- _ . _ - _ - . . - - - - - - - . - - _=-_.. . _ . . . _ . . . . . _ _. -



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Project Manager for PG&E. Now, during tines when I was 2

pressured for well, working not exactly as I considered to 2

3 be in accordance with procedures -- it was in Mr. Moses' 4

office many times that I was asked to or told to get those j 6 red tag items, get the red tags off of the items in the field.


] They did not want those items red tagged in the field.


0 Could you give os a specific example?

! 8 A This was the biggest pressure came on this l 8

I 9 '

structural steel reinforcenent that we were building, l '


10 reinforcing and since we put so many new people into the 4

11 field to do the inspections, we were pressured very hard to 4

12 get these people indoctrinated and get them in the field 13 and get the inspections going and the acceptance of all 14 !

of the work that was being done in the field and most 4 15 any time a red tag situation came up where we should have *

16 written a red tag on a non-conformance. There was a lot of i

17 controversy over it, a lot of threats made by Mr. Moses. ,

18 Q Could you state what those threats consisted of?

19 A

Well, in most cases I was told by Mr. Moses that 20 if we didn't keep the red tags down and if we didn't keep 21 this job rolling, we were going to be more or less thrown 22 off the Job and another conpany would possibly take ovar.

t i 23 Q Were there any cases where you or your staff did 1

24 act contrary to the procedures and not in fact follow the


25 r procedures as required in the area of red tagging?


. , _ . . _ , _.-..-_,,,. _._ . _ , , _ _ . . - ~ _ . . _ _ _ _ _ . . _

3 j 13

. t k 1 A Well, there was the gentlenan brought in -- I can't 2 think of his name.

3 MR. JONES: Just take it cesy -- just relax, I'm 4 going to get some water here.


6 Q Virgil, where was this structural steel work e

7 being done? Was this the annulus area or was it the a fuel handling?

9 A Fuel handling was the biggest push, I think.

10 MR. BISHOP: You were going to think of an 11 example of where the procedures were possibly violated?

I'm trying to think of the 13 gentlenan's name that -- I'm drawing a blank here. The

! ( '

14 gentleman's name -- Mr. Moses asked me to put a nan in 15 since the job was getting so pressured and in so many areas 16 of responsibility and so nany things to cover, e brought l

i 17 in another gentlenan as the inspector and I promoted him

f. I 18 to a supervisor. He asked me to nake him an assistant 1
19 quality manager on the night shift. I can't tell you his P

j 20 name now but I will.

1 s I 21 MR. JONES: What year was that?

i i, f 22 THE WITNESS: That was prchably -- he hadn't I

f 23 been there over 90 days, I don't think. That would have 24 still been in '82, the end of 1982. He was a gentleman t

25 that was hired by the Cataract (ph) Engineering Corporation, i

l i

14 l i

I MR. JONES: Nere they subcontractors to Foley?

2 THE WITNESS: As subcontracted to the Howard P.

' 3 Foley Company for qualified inspectors level. ;

4 I was told to pull some red tags, to get the 5

red tags down out of the field because the field hands, 6

ironworkers had not been indoctrinated by their supervision 7

well enough to know the procedure that they could work 8 '

through a red tag providing there was a disposition on 8

the non-conformance report and had been issued to production 18 for that purpose of working through the -- you know, to M

correct the situation. So in many cases there were red tags 12 hung in the field and they wanted the red tags down so 13 he instructed -- I wouldn't pull the red tags dov, and .

14 somehow he had instructed the night assistant manager to 15 p211 them and I came back in te next day and found a stack 16 of red tags which had been pulled in violation of the proce#u: :e 37

and stuck into the shelf in the quality manager's office. .

18 They instructed ne and they told me that the 18 i

field hands were very uneasy about working through red tags -

20 f and they didn't understand the procedure wel] enough to 21 know that they could work through a red tag so that's why 22 they saw fit evidently to pull the red tags and deviate 23 f from the procedure which was QCP-3.

4 24 BY MR. POWER:

25 0 What'is a red tag? Nould you generally explain i

1 1.


(. I what a red tag is? ,

2 A Nell, our QCP-3 procedure reads that if a non-3 formance -- I 4 Q Is that a Foley OC procedure?

5 A Yes.

6 Q All right.

7 A It's the procedure for writing a non-conformance 8

and handling it. That non-conformance should be written 9 and at that time the red tag would go on the non-conforming to item.

ji Q Is that written by a QC inspector or an engineer?

12 A Written by our QA engineer. And the non-conformance 13 would bc subnitted to PG&E either with a proposed disposition k 34 made up by our engineering people.

15 Q Can you give me the audit trail fror the time 16 that an engineer determines if he feels sonething should be

17 red tagged and he fills out the form, to whom does it go I 18 and how does ic get to you to get to PG&E? Slowly.

g 39 A Okay, well, an inspector will go to the field l s

j 20 with his necessary procedures and his necessary forms to l 21 fill ut depending on te type of inspection he's going to !

I l d 22 make. If he finds a non-conforming situation, he vill i

23 write a red tag on the iter and document this on his paper-24 work and immediately get a hold of the Foley Engineering grou'?

25 for a number to put on the red tag and that in turn will be ;




16 1 the number that non-conformance wil1 be identified under, 2 that's depending on the specification nunber and then the 3 correllated number of the red tags that are non-confornances 4 that are issued in that particular specification.

5 Then, the non-confornance will go through its 6 various review cycle and be submitted to PG&E with a 7 proposed disposition on it and PG&E at that tiae will either 8 deny that disposition or propose a disposition on their 9 own.

10 Q Okay, through this cycle then from the engineer 11 when he prepares his necessary paperwork, do you get this 12 on a day to day basis, you would then be advised of the red 13 tags being ' hung on such and such items? Do you, in your 14 position as GA/QC manager?

15 A I know about then almost immediately, yes.

16 0 Okay. Back to your conversation now, relative 17 to that, when would your innediate supervisor Moses be 18 then brought into the picture that he would be knowledgeable 19 of the red tags being hung and the possible disposition of 20 such a situation?

21 A Well, he wouldn't really be knowledgeable of it 22 until the non-conformance had been officially typed up, 23 given a number, reviewed by myself and signed and sent 24 into him for his signature and agreerent on the non-conformance 25 that was written.

17 I 0 Okay, so you had no problems obtaining your i

2 NCR numbers and that, the normal --

3 A No, no.

4 Q Please correct me if I incorrectly summarize this S

but, what you said is this new individual from the Cataract 6 Engineering Corporation was hired approximately at the end

, 7 of 1982 and then sometime later there was this discussion 8 about too many red tags being in the field and on a night g shift, he pulled the red tags and then you came in the follow-10 ing day shift and found a large number of these tags in 11 the quality assurance manager's office. Was it -- did you 12 tell us whether it was this individual who himself pulled 13 the tag or did he order the tags to be pulled? Do you know?

g A I really don't know what the circumstances were.

15 I only know that the red tags were in the office and I found 16 them at that time.

37 Q What was your action at that time?

5 18 A I questionned Rob Carter.

19 MR. JONES: That's the individual's name?

I j 20 THE WITNESS: Yes.

21 MR. POWER: The night supervisor?

i J 22 THE NITNESS: Night supervisor. Assistant Manager.

23 MR. BISHOP: Assistant QA Manager?


25 MR. BISHOP: QC manager. Okay.


18 1 BY MR. POWER:

2 Q Could you continue?

3 A To the best of T.y nemory riget now, Mr. Moses, 4 he told ne that Mr. Moses had instructed him to pull the 5 red tags.

s 6 Q' Without proper disposition?

7 A Well, I don't know if they had proper disposition 8 or not. I don't --

9 Q That wasn't part of the conversation that you 10 could recall?

11 A Now.


13 Q When did this occur, do you know?

14 A I'd say the third, probably second or third week 15 in February.

10 BY MR. POh'ER :

17 Q Of this year?

18 A Yes.

19 Q You made a comment about, it is authorized te 20 work to or through a red tag? Could you explain that more 21 fully?

22 MR. JONES: I don't think that's what he said.

23 MR. PONER: That's why I'm asking. Maybe I 24 misunderstood what you said.

25 THE WITNESS: The only way you can work, what you


(.V 1

might say through a red tag is to have a proper disposition 2 on a non-conformance report and a copy of thi's issued to 3 your production forces to work to that particular disposition 4

so that you may work the problem of f but the red tag would 5 remain on the item, it should at all times, until the last 6 signature on the . non-conformance report is there and the 7 corrective action is completed.

8 MR. POWER: Is completed?


10 BY MR. BISHOP: 1 11 Q Could we continue then after Mr. Carter told you 12 that Mr. Moses had instructed him to remove the tags --

13 where did the conversation go from there? You're shaking 14 your head. Does that mean you don't recall or --

15 A I don't recall, I'm sorry.

16 Q What happened to the red tags that were removed?

17 A I believe the red tags remained in the shelf in

,j j 18 the QC manager's office.

i j 19 Q Did you take this issue up with any of the oEher j 20 Foley management, PG&E or Bechtel management on ths site?

i l j 21 A 'No. At that time, we were being pushed so hard

5 22 and so fast and I had so many tings to do that I could not 6 -

i s

23 cover it and keep my inspection forces in the field and 24 going at that time. At that time, I was putting in 15, 25 16 hours1.851852e-4 days <br />0.00444 hours <br />2.645503e-5 weeks <br />6.088e-6 months <br />, sometimes a day, anywhere from 60 to 85 hours9.837963e-4 days <br />0.0236 hours <br />1.405423e-4 weeks <br />3.23425e-5 months <br /> a 4,

4 4

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20 i week.

2 Q What about your inspection staff? Did they have 3 similar work hours?

4 A Yes, the inspection staff was working many nany 5 vertime hours six days a week, some of them into the 6 seventh day.

7 Q Prior to this second or third week in February 8 when this event occurred, were there any other instances g where, in your mind procedure violations cccurred and 10 proper corrective actions were not taken?

11 A I'm sorry, I couldn't recall any specifics on 12 that right now.

13 MR. POWER: If you're getting off the conversation 34 with Carter, I'd like to ask one question.

15 MR. BISHOP: Go ahead.


17 Q Was there anyone else present during that 18 conversation?

19 A Not to my Knowledge.


21 Q What were your intentions as far as assuring 22 that the non-conforming conditions which these red tags 23 related to would be properly closed out now that the tags 24 had been removed?

25 A My full intention was, even though there had been 9

T l 21 i

\ 1 a deviation from the procedure, that the non-conformance t 2 would never be signed off until the actual work had been 3 completed.

4 Could you tell us what the significance is Q

5 as far as the bottom line hardware quality is concerned ,

6 with the removal of these tags? Is there still a way to 7 go back and close out the non-conforming condition, another 8 record is it a fact that a red tag is removed creates some 1

! 9 other problems?

10 A Well, the non-conformance would not be closed 11 out until there was justifiable paperwork and inspection

12 forms signed off on. What I mean is approval, you know, 13 on the . inspection forms so that the rework to the non-(

1-4 conforr.ance could have possibly been completed and the 15 inspection forms filled out and approved and here wouldn't j

j 16 have really been a problen other than the fact that they 17 were deviating from procedure by removing the red tags g

g 18 prior to the non-conformance being completed. Now, i 19 it would make it a little hard to get back to some of

20 these situations for another person to identify a problem.
! 21 0 Shouldn't the -- well, perhaps you could tell a
. f 22 me that the non-conformance report itself and deficiency 2
.f 23 report, does that contain an identification of witere the i 24 deficiency is 1ccated?

25 A Yes, it does.

l t

i 1

b m ._,_.- _ ~.._. , , . . . _ . - , _ _ , _ _ _ _ . _ _ . , _ . . . _ . . , . _ _ . _ . _ _ . _ . . _ _ . _ . _ _ . ~ . . _ - _ _ , _ _ _ _ _ _ ,

22 1

Q Approximately how many of,those tags do you think were removed that one night?

A That would be impossible for me to tell because 4

I didn't pick them up and count them.


  • Q Ten, one hundred or a thousand?

6 A It looked to be a stack of maybe, 10, 15, to 7

the best of my knowledge.

8 0 Do you recall in general what types of deficiencies 9

were occurring at that point in time that these tags might 10 relate to? Were they weld quality or material in 11 question? What types of problems were these tags, typically

' relating to?

3 MR. JONES: That assumes that he actually looked 14 them over. We don't know if you did or not.

THE WITNESS: They were involved in the welding, 16 in the proper placement in some cases of reinforcement 17 plates, wells that were questionable and to -- whether 18 they were severely undercut at times or nat. I believe 19 proper size wells were problems we were running into which --


6 i Q Are you aware of the dispensation of the non-22 conformance reports themselves, that is, was there ever

! 23

any indication that these were going to be tampered with i

24 I or discarded or improperly handled?

25 A No indication to me at that time.

P l

1 I

23 k 1 Q Any indication since that time?

2 A No.

3 Q I want to ship to another subject just for a second 4 if I can. You mentioneC earlier that there was a period 5 of time when you were apparently hiring quality control 6 inspectors at a very rapid rate. .Could you discuss briefly 7 whether they were properly qualified and properly' 8 indoctrinated before they were put out into the field to 9 work?

10 A Well, I have been told since the beginning of 11 my employment at Diablo by various Pacific Gas and Electric 12 people and by my own people at times, my own people in 13 the Howard P. Foley company that we were not under 10CFR50

( 14 requirements. Foley, the Howard P. Foley Company now, that 15 is, and that we did not have to level our inspectors to 16 ANSI 4526 and ANSI 45223 on our auditing beat. Ne were not j 17 held to that requirement strictly. During the period of l 18 time I have been out there we have endeavored always to i 19 try to indoctrinate our people in that direction but would j 20 never get a leveling standard through until just very I i j 21 recently here within the last few months which was d 22 December 12th. There was a procedure written and distributec I

i 23 that we were to leve.1 our people to ANSI 4526 which made 24 it very dif ficult because some of the new people we had 25 we could not -- we didn't have them cuick -- we didn't have

24 1 them long enough to level ther to 26.

-2 Q When you say level them, you mean qualify them 3' in accordance with N4525?

4 A .Ye s .

5 Q Were they put to work? s i 6 A Yes, they were.

7 Q Coes some individual certify their readiness for 8 work?

9 A We have in our quality ' assurance departnent at to this tine Mr. Jim Thompson in charge of the quality assurance 11 department. He is the quality assurance manager'and he ,

12 has a section set up that is doing the leveling and 13 certification of our people.

14 Q Are you stating that some people were certified ,

15 without proper qualification? l 16 A That I could not attest to. I nean, I don't l 17 know their background, their history so I couldn't say 18 if they were or not. Only the time period that we had 19 a 45 day' indoctrination period in our procedure -- that's 20 the only thing that I know of that we have deviated from 21 in qualifying the peope to 25. '

22 Q I guess I don't understand what the 45 day 23 indoctrination period, how that relates to N4526.

24 A Well --

25 Q Was that 45 day a Foley required --


.k 1 A This was a Howard P. Foley Company procedure noti.

2 Q This is the December 12, 1982 procedure?

3 A Yes, yes.


5 Q And was this the period of time that they say 6 that it took to train an ind.ividual to be a level 1 or a 7 level 2 individual, is that what you're saying?

8 A No, that's not what I'm saying. Our procedure --

g I'm afraid you would have to read it to understand exactly jo what it was to imply because it wasn't written -- I don't 11 think totally to ANSI 4526. The procedure was written due 12 to an audit that was perforced by Pacific Gas and Electric's 13 QA Department, Mr. Dick Twitty.


14 15 O Prior to December, 1982, you made reference to 16 the fact that the Plant was not under 10CFR50, Appendix B.

17 Did you enploy. inspectors who were not competent in the l 18 inspection of the activities they were responsible for?

g 19 MR. JONES: Did he personally employ such people?


a l 21 Q Did Howard P. Foley at the Diablo Canyon site a

f 22 employ inspectors who were not qualified?

e j 23 MR. JONES: If you know.

24 THE WITNESS: I really wouldn't answer that one 25 because I hate to-judge another nan's qualifications. I



26 1 don't think I can.


3 Q What about the' instance that the period of time 4 when you were both QA and quality control nanager?

5 A Of the people that we hired, we felt were under -

6 the conditions were working and the restrictions that we 7 had to our procedures, we felt that we could indoctrinate 8 then well encugh to follow 1 procedure which is really all 9 they were required to do at that time, was follow our pro-10 cedure and document their inspection to a procedure and l l

11 to a specific inspection form 'chich *as part of the ,

12 procedure. l ,

i 13 Q Did you meet your contract requirerents in 14 that area?

15 A Contracts requirenents was never really discussed j 16 with me. Mr. Moses was the only one that took care of 17 the contract requirements. "

18 Q Did you personally ever perform any inspection 19 of the hardware in the field at Diablo Canyon?

20 A Yes, I have. -

21 Q Have you done any inspection since the December j 22 time frene?

l 23 MR. JONES: That's 1982?



l 25 Q 1982? -

i a


- - - - <-e,,, w ,,,--,-vw..--_,-y=.~ y- - , . , , , ,. , , , , - ,



\. 1 A No .'

2 O What is your opinion about the quality of the 3 workmanship in areas that are under H.P. Foley responsibility?

4 MR. JONES: That's a broad question. Would it 5 be fair for him to answer --

6 MR. BISHOP: Perhaps I should rephrase it --

7 MR. JONES: There are different areas of 8 workmanship.

9 REPORTER: Excuse me. Could you speak one at 10 a time, please?

11 MR. JONES: Yes. There are different areas of 12 workmanship and maybe it would be -- I don't know if it's 13 appropriate, Mr. Tennyson for you to answer different


14 answers with regard to different areas of workmaitship --

15 why don't you, break it down if you need to answer it 16 that way.

17 MR. BISHOP: Perhaps it would be easier if I l :

l l g 18 rephrased my question, l

1 3 19 BY MR. 3ISHOP:

l l j 20 Q Are there any instances you are aware of where i !

! 21 the workmanship does not conform to requirements?

a p 22 A Well, I would have to say that due to this big [

l l 23 push hat we had --

24 Q Starting when?

25 A Starting the first of the year on the modifications, l

1 1

l i

e- .- __

'.- l 28 1 there were so many people, new people hired and so much 2 confusion in trying to indoctrinate all of them, both the -

3 crafts to get out and follo. the instructions and the diagrams 4 and procedures they had to weld to and in certifying the 5 welders, we also, in putting new i::spectors in the field 6 to inspect their work, there was so much confusion due to 7 design change and our package program putting it together 8 which was a package progran which was supposed to instruct 9 the field hands to do a speficic installation the same 10 as the inspectors would be required to inspect it, due to 11 all of this there was so much confusion that there were la a lot of mistakes and this is what brought the pressure

. 13 down on the OC Department because they were noting these 14 mistakes as they came up and it was slowing the project 15 down.

16 BY MR. POWER: ,

17 Q In reference to that specific point, you say i

IIP there were many mistakes -- were these identified and I 19 corrected at that time? -

20 A To the best of my knowledge, they were.

~ ,

21 Q You're not aware of any instances where there a

l 22 were not problems or an area that was not corrected?

23 A No, I don't think there was any intent to 24 - not repair anything that had been installed, non-conforming.

25 (Pause) t i

4,._ . , - -[- ., - . , , , .._,,,m.,,...m., , , , , - , , ..v,.r,,, , _ . , . . .,,,,,,_,__m. _ . . . ,,,,,,_,..,,,r._,-, . _m 3 .n, , , , , , . . . , . , , _

I .

29 1


2 O In. addition to the red tag incident which you 3 described, you kind of inferred that there were other 4

instances where procedures may not have been complied with.

5 Can you identify any other instances?

6 (pauss) 7 MR. JONES: Again I'm not sure that that's what 8 he said.

9 MR. BISHOP: Okay. -


11 Q Was that the-only instance then?

4 12 A I think that was the most, the one that was 13 oressed on my the hardest was the d.6difications.


14 Q You indicated that there were threats -- if 15 you can't keep the job rolling and that these threats 16 came from Mr. Moses, were there any other individuals who 17 made what you call threats?


! 18 A' No, not to my knowledge, no.


a j 20 Q In reference to those comments that were possibly j 21 made by Mr. Moses, was anyone else present?

d 22 A I believe Mr. Jin Thompson had just the same I

g --

[ 23 threat that I've had.

24 Q Were you specifica'.ly knowle3geable or present 25 when that type of conversation occurred or is this an k

. - . .. . _- .. _. . . ~ _


3 30 1'

I assumption?

j 2 A Yes, Jin Thompson has discussed it with me 3 and I really feel assured in saying.that Jim Thompson has 4

been available when threats were mede concerning our jobs.

S Q Directed towards you?

2 6 A Yes. ~

7 Q Okay, have you been present when a threat has-8 been directed towards him?

9 A No, not to -- -

10 Q To the best of your recollection?

11 A Not to the best of ny knowledge. -

12 Q Are there any other individuals in a supervisory, 13 non-supervisory position that could have possibly received 14 threats in a simi]ar matter from Mr. Moses?

You can answer that. Answer of your l 16 own knowledge.

{ 17 MR. POWER: Yes, of your own knowledge.

i 18 THE WITNESS: I had an assistart quality manager l


19 on days, Mr. Rick Roam, R-o-a-n who was threatened this l

i 20 same day that I was terminated and Mr. Moses told him l 21 that he was to fire a certain amount of o:: a certain number '

22 of inspectors in the field who were classified as rod 23 oven attendants and Mr. Roan refused to fire them so 24 Mr. Moses threatened him with termination at that time.

25 /// !

-men._._----- -

31 i BY MR. POWER: -

p Q How did you become knotriedgeable of this instance?

3 I'm interested in your direct knowledge or hearsay type.

4 That's fine.

5 A Through Mr. Roam, directly to me.

6 Q Were you present during this conversation?

7 A No.

8 Q This_is hearsay you received?

9 A This was between Mr. Moses and Mr. Roar and to there was another gentleman in the rocm but I do not '<now ij him.

12 Q Any idea who the other --

13 A I believe he was a Howard P. Foley employee, 34 seened to be a new person in the company who was sitting 15 in with Mr. Moses.


- 17 Q Was Mr. Roam fired?

i A Yes.

l 18 jg Q Do you know what the reported statement was for j 20 his firing? I assume they make a document out, a card or l 21 something like that when you're fired or terminated?

5 A No, I couldn't ansi?er that.

f 22 23 Q Ne're aware of a rod oven attendant issue that l 24 came up sometime in early March or la te February dealing 25 with the site evacuation related to the weather and the l l


-g, , - _ _ , . - - - _-

m .

32 1

fact that welders would turn in their rods and I guess what 2 was reported to us, anyway was that the rod attendants 3 had already evacuated. Nas this the issue related to 4 these rod oven attendants?

5 A Yes, it was.

6 Q Were you involved in any discussions related to 7 that incident, and if so, could you summarize then for us?

8 MR. JONES: Now you're asking about discussions 9 after the fact of the incident itself?

10 MR. BISHCP: Right.

11 THE WITNESS: Yes. On Decspber the 2nd, or 12 I'm sorry, March 2nd,1983, I was told about 10:45 by 13 Mr. Moses who came back to my office in a big hurry and told 14 me that they were going to evacuate all the people from 15 the plant due to weather conditions and for all the people 16 that I had who came in at 6 o' clock, he wanted them out 17 at 11:15, out of the plant. For all the people who came 18 in at 6:30, we wanted them out at 11: 45. At that time, l

t 19 which didn't leave ne nuch time to evacuate the people out 20 of there and the hurry for it, I assune was the fact that 21 thcre were busses waiting in the parking lot to take the 22 people back to the automobiles or to their point of origin.

23 I didn't ask any question, I just -- I asked him -- do 24 you want everybody evacuated? Yes, he said, Mr. Moses 25 said, everybody is to be evacuated and I don't vant any

33 i stragglers. So at that time, I made a phone call out.to 2 Rick Roam who was my Assistant Quality Assurance or 3 Quality Control Manager, told him of the evacuation plan.

4 I also had a number of people, inspectors and my secretary 5

and electrical inspection type people in te office that 6 more or less heard the statement that Mr. Moses made. I 7 started to go out -- I have a big -- had a double wide 8

trailer out alongside of the oClice building which housed 9 the civil and mechanical people and I had to get out to 10 that trailer to let the:S know that, possibly, what the 3,

evacuation was. There was a lot of confusion at that time, a lot of people going in all directions, war ting to know 13 what was happening so when I got to the trailer, Mr. Roam

( 34 was on the telephone. Someone had called him and asked 15 him what the deal was, that they were pullino out the 16 security people which was a sign to the rod oven attendants.

37 Now, the security people were handled by another supervisor, i

j j jg not ryself and the reason for the security people were 39 tc escourt my rod oven attenda.its who were in secured

20 areas that could not, that had not been through their l 21 security clearance yet, so they had to have an escourt i

22 with them. Evidently, someone had given the escourts s

23 n tification that they were to pull out of Unit 1 at 24 a certain time which I do not know what time they told them, t

25 that the escourts were leaving and ny people were on the k .



1 ovens -- the rod attendants were on the ovens and didn't 2 know what to do. They had made a phone call into Mr. Roam, 3 so Mr. Roam was on the phone at that time, really not 4 knowing what to tell then and when they told him that 5 they were -- the eccourts were being pulled out, he explained 6 it to me and I told him, all right, pull the rod oven 7 attendants out, lock up the ovens and pull the rod oven 8 attendants out. Do not breach the security, because I 9 knew that the next morning, they had already told me that 10 there vould be no night shift welders on, there would be 11 no welders in the plant, there's no way anybody can be 12 doing welding with a rod that was laying on the tables to 13 be turned in and the next morning, very early we could pick 14 up the rods, check our paperwork out and if all the rods 15 checked out and everything, then we would know that we 16 had covered the situation and write a non-conformance 17 against ourselves that we had deviated from procedure 18 and possibly you know, clear it up that way. So this 19 was done. The people were pulled out of the field and 20 the next morning, after we secured the area, cleared the 21 area on March 3rd, 1983, we came in. I came in about --

22 I was late for work myself -- about 8 o' clock I guess 23 and Mr. Moses had left word that he uanted ne to come 24 into tSe office and talk to him, not knowing yet that he 25 had already talked to Mr. Roam.

35 I

1 Prior to him calling for me, he had already called in 2 Mr.

Roam to have him explain the situation, what had happened 3

the day hafore, why were the rod ovens left unattended, 4

what they had -- what Mr.

5 Roan had done was told the rod oven attendants to leave a note on the rod ovens, lock them 6

up and tell t$.e people to leave their rod cans which were 7

numbered by the rod ovens so they could be picked up the 8 next morning.

9 Mr. Moses had called in Mr. Roam and wanted hi? to 10 fire all the rod oven attendants that were on tPo , in 11 Unit 1 and Mr.

Roam refused due to the orders we had the 12 prior day.

And that's about all I have to say.


14 Q And that's when Mr. Roam was terninated?

15 A YeG 16 O I guess, for refusihc to do that. Did anyone,

17 either yourself or Mr. Roam inform Mr. Moses that j 18 if the rod oven attendants evacuated the site that proce?ures g 19 would be violated and tPO 20 fact that rods wouldn't be a properly taken in and accounted for?

i 21 A Not to my knowledge. Him beina the project f 22

manager, I would have thcught he'd known that himself.

l 23 , 9a does sign all the procedures.

24 Q I 3eg,


  • 7ha t t'a s

'""4 e triggering event in your 25 termination?

l A

i i



1 MR.


3 Nhy don ' t you ju Again, that call 36 don ' t you st ask him about s for 4 ask him the ev a judcenent, he vill tell you about. uhe ents of events the t 5 of . - chy wPat he ' he 3rf of I 6 BY MR. experienced. MarcP and Q BISHOP:

7 Okay.

A Could you te!'

us 8

about, On the third ofMarch about I was the 3rd of 9

Mr. Moses ' offic Marca?

e 10 I where in there.There about 8, called into the office don 't know was between 9 and 8:30, 11 of who he was. another gentleman i some-the Howard P. Must n the 12 me have been a office.

what had Foley Company .

new employee 13 he happened, Mr. Moses explained to that the explained to to me ~ he was that the v unattended and rod ov ery upset and 15 ev it was ens had er happened to us one of the worst been left 16 , to requir e things that had at Diablo Canyon 17 my discharce. .

And, I explained i t wa s coing 18 what could bee don 19 evacuate the day b and whatewhad in to him thoroughl y be r efore, nind when w w itten that a e did 20 very very easily, quickly and non conformance could 21 the paperwork c knowing that PG&E could have ould be 22 there accepted cleared up ,

was no the ,

3 field and no situation e

unauthorized impression e

rod. w had llunauthorized be en done rod in the workunautho with any O

on him. This didn't see m to make any How long did this conver i sation last, !

or your l

37 1

discussion with Mr. Moses?

2 A Probably fifteen minutes.

3 Q What did you do then?

4 A I asked him if he wanted me to leave the site 5 right then or did he want me to go b ack and get some 6 people lined out with the work that we had outstanding, 7 our paperwork. And he said he'd appreciate it if I'd 8 go back and fill somebody in, fill them in on the paperwork 9 and try to keep the job rolling which Mr. Roam had done 10 all the morning, too, under really the same circumstances.

11 I did go back to my office, did sign a number of documents, 12 work documents that required my signature to process on 13 through inbetween cleaning out my desk and that type of 14 thing.

15 MR. JONES: Have you, in summarizing the 16 conversation with Mr. Moses that morning, have you omitted

17 some of the details and some of the more emotional comments I

a l ! 18 Mr. Moses made in order to be concise this afternoon?

i 19 THE WITNESS: I could have. Is there any way i

i :

I j 20 we could maybe stop and maybe --

l l"

21 MR. POWER: Yes, certainly, we'can go off the d 22 record.

2 j

l 23 (Whereupon, a brief recess was taken.)

24 ///

25 ///


l l

l I


e 35 1 MR. P'OWER: On the record.


3 Q Mr. Tennyson, I understand something your -- you 4 have recollected some other aspects of the conversation with 5 Mr. Moses on the 3rd of March. Could you inform us of what 6 that was?

7 A Yes. During the period of time he was explaining 8 to me the situation that had happened the prior day of the 9 evacuation and the weld rod attendants leaving their stations .

10 He told me that it was a terrible thing, and along with "This 11 is the worst thing that's ever happened to us on the site 12 here." And he said, "I'm just going to have to let you go." -

13 He said, "PG&E is pushing me and there's really nothing I 14 can do about it."

15 Q Did you have any conversations with PG&E . . .

16 A No, I had --

17 Q . . . Concerning the situation?

1 18 A I -- all I merely stated back

-- no conversations.

i 19 to him, "Well, you do what you have to do, or whatever."

20 Q Was there anything else on that converstaion that 21 you . . .

22 A As I got up and left the room, I thought of how I 4

23 would be terminated and future jobs and so on. I went back 24 to his office and asked him -- excuse me -- what would it

25 show, what would be shown on my termination slip. And I said .,

i i

i s

33 k' 1 "Well, could you -- do you want to make it fired, terminated, 2 for what reason, or . . . Do you want to put on ' voluntary

, 3 quit'? How do you want to handle it?" And he said, "Well, t

4 I'll get back to you a little later on."

5 Q And did he get back to*you?

6 A Yes, later, must have been around -- later in the 7 morning. Must have been around noon or something. I don't 8 recall the exact time. He did come back to my office.

9 Came walking into my office and Mr. Rick Roan was sitting on 10 the other side of the room, behind the door. And Mr. Moses 11 did come in, leaned over and told me, "On -- I put ' voluntary 12 quit' on your termination form. It'll make it easier for yot 13 to draw unemployment." And I said, "That's fine, Skip.


14 Whatever you feel is right." At that time, Mr. Roan asked 15 him, "Does that same thing apply to mine," or something to 16 that effect. And Mr. Moses was surprised, evidently, to see g

17 him there, and he said, "Oh, yes. Yes."

l 18 Q Did he in fact put that reason do~wn on your termina-g 19 tion slip?*

I j 20 A Yes.

s- a -

! ! 21 BY MR. POWER:

1 i f 22 Q So officially then, neither you or Roan were termi-I '

i 23 nated or fired?

l 24 MR. JONES: Well, that --

25 MR. POWER: Involuntarily.

l i- .

l i'

I t ---w

. - - , - - . - ~ . _ . , - . , ,---,,-----,-...--,--.------,---.--,------,-n . - + , . - - - - , - - - -----,---,,-w

40 1 MR. JONES: That questior -- that question implies 2 that Virgil understands what " official" means.

3 MR. POWER: By the record, yes. I'm interested in 4

the manner in which the -- the firm terminated your employ-5 ment. By what you have just related to me, the assumption 6 that I would make, based upon that, is that by the comments 7

made and the way you received it, that you voluntarily termi-d 8 nated your employment on your own volition.

i 9 MR. JONES: I am going to instruct you not to answer 10 that question, Virgil. My understanding is that that cer-11 .tainly wasn't your intent, and what -- what Mr. Power would 12 infer from that is really not material.


14 Okay.

0 Was there any other aspects of the conversa-15 tions on the 3rd of March that you'd like to inform us abouti 16 A Nothing other than I fulfilled my obligations as 17 quality manager up until about two or.two-thirty before 18 departing from the company.

19 Q Who -- did you turn your work activities over to any 20 one individual when you left?

21 A No, I talked to numerous supervisors who came in 22 very much surprised that I was leaving. Distributed a few 23 papers which I had on my desk, and the job requirements and 24 so on. There was really no one to turn it over to at that ,

25 time. There was no one to take my place. I might add, I was t

,-. , , . . .--y, . ,,- - ..,..,~,,,_.-_--,.,,,.,.g, -

,, ,...n , .,n,, ,- , . , - . . - - . _ _ _ - - - . - - - . - . , - - .


4 -31 r

k 1 the only Level 3 that they had available, at that time.

2 Q That's quality control Level 3, ANSI N45?

  • 3 A 26, yes.

4 0 26? Okay. Were there any other issues relating to 5 this weld rod control and site evacuation that are worth 6 mentioning?

7 A No, not -- not to my knowledge, no.

8 ,

MR. BISHO': Do you have any questions?

9 MR. POWER: Yes.

11 Q In reference to the evacuation, are you aware of i

,12 any individual that would have violated a possible security 13 regulation by not remaining with a security guard or escort

(' 14 at the time of the evacuation?

l 15 ,

MR. JONES: I'm not sure I understand the question.

16 MR. POWER: Did he have any -- anybody along the J

= 17 line, to include the oven attendants, that were in a position

] l 18 in a so-called security area without a security guard that

! g 19 you have direct knowledge of?



s f 22 0 Well, based upon the conversation you related, it j 23 was my opinion that they basically, as they were being with-24 drawn, they went with the security guards at the time, so 25 they did not violate another -- another procedure, in this


42 1

case a security procedure, to the best of your knowledge?

2 A Yes.

3 Q Good.

4 MR, JONES: But f ou were asking him whether he was

, 5 aware of any people who had to be accompanied by the escorts, 6 is that correct?

7 MR. POWER: Yes, right.

8 MR. JONES: Were you aware that there were people 9 who had to be accompanied by the escorts?

10 THE WITNESS: Oh, very definitely.

11 MR. POWER: Yes --


13 MR. POWER: Yes, that I understood before.

14 MR. JONES: Okay.

15 MR. POWER: Right. I just wanted to make sure that 16 someone wasn't left behind.

17 MR. BISHOP: Yes.

18 MR. JONES: I see.

19 MR. POWER: If you call the guards and you're . . .

!. 20 MR. JONES: Thank you. I misunderstood your ques-I 21 tion.

22 . MR. POWER: Gkay.

i 23 MR. JONES: So you were asking whether there was 24 somebody left behind and not whether there was somebody who

25 was subject to that requirement.

l t

, - - - . - - - - . - - , - , - -. . ..w--. . - - - . e- - - --,--m--, ~ g. , ~- -

2 i

6 43 i

1 k 1 MR. POWER: Yes. Yes.

2 THE WITNESS: I r.ight add that before I was termi-i 3 nated -- or before I left.the site that very morning, that 4 there was a non-conformance.


5 March 3rd?

6 THE WITNESS: March 3rd. A non-confermance had f 7 been written. And the paperwork had been picked up in the 8 morning of March 3rd very early, at starting of the shift at 9 six o' clock.


11 Q This is all the paperwork associated with the rod?

. 12 A With the rod ovens.

13 Q Withdrawl slips?


14 A Yes.

15 Q And control --

i 16 .'. And the rod withdrawl slips and so on, yes. And

- 17 all rod was checue0 out and found to be available at the j 18 ovens. There were no rod stubs left over. There were no g ?9 rod -- all rods were destroyed that were left in the can.

j 20 So we took it upon ourselves to get that situation well in i e i j 21 hand the first thing in the morning. That was the orders.

d 22 I have a -- a supervisor over the weld rod attendantu who l l 23 was very knvaledgeable of procedures, and he took it upon o

21 himself to -- to fulfil ~ all his obligations without being f

25 pushe .? , and it was a Mr. Michael Cox. And he's very much s i I


. , . . . , _ _ . . ~ - . _ _ _ _ . _ . _ , _ . _ _ . _ _ _ _ _ _ . , _ . . _ _ _ . . _ _ _ _ . _ . . . . . _ _ - . _ , _ . _ . , . _ . , , . _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ .


-1 aware of this whole situation as to how it happened.

2 Q Okay.

Anything else related to the rod control 3


4 A Well, yes.

I'm a little confused as to why this 5

situation was referred to as the worst thing that ever 6

happened to us on site, when a prior situation had arisen 7

where PG&E had instructed the Howard P. Foley Company to 8

take uncontrolled rod from an uncontrolled area and disperse 9

to it to the field and allow them in a se -- Unit One secured area without any rod control methods or rod control proce-11 dures being taken into effect.

12 Q Could you describe this incident? '

13 A I can't give you the dates.

14 Q

Approximate, to the best of your knowledge will do.

15 A

I would say it was in possibly January.

16 1, Q 1983?

17 j A '83. Or just prior.

18 I came to work one morning.

13 I was called into the office that -- and told that the NRC i

1 had been out in the field and picked up numerous weld rods 1

20 and found cans of weld rods which were uncontrolled, some 21 on the floor, some in boxes; a rod oven that was plugged 22 into a wall -- a wall socket, I might add. And I was told 23 that I was to go to a meeting with Mr. Rick Ensler who was 24 the project manager of PG&E, and explain to him that we were 25 writing up, I believe, a non-conformance on this situation,

___-,,y- , -,. - -,--

9 - ----,,,y . - - . r. ,, c ,e, m.. --- .# . - < -. + -- ._.


][h k' 1 and explain to Mr. Ensler exactly what we intended to do to 2 correct this situation.

3 I did, in fact, go up to Mr. Ensler's office with 4

the assistant project manager Mr. Ray Lathrom.

5 MR. JONES: Who's the other person?

6 THE WITNESS: In attendance with this meeting was 7

Mr. Don Rockwell, Mr. Rick Ensler, Mr. Ray Lathrom, myself, 8 Mr. Glen Brown, who is a night assistant quality mana -- or 9 night assistant project manager for the Howard P. Foley 10 company now. And explained to Mr. Ensler that we intended 11 to do away with the uncontrolled rod situation we had within 12 the Howard P. Foley Company and exactly how we intended to,


13 to handle these uncontrolled rods which were supposed to have


14 been a construction aid only and not to be used on any Class 15 One situation. I did in fact explain this to Mr. Ensler and 16 he did agree that it sounded like a good idea.

j 17 I then attended the -- along with these same people,

,! 18 I did attend the NRC exit audit on the findings of this j

19 particular situation. And to the best of my knowledge, the 20 outcome of the meeting was that the findings would be evalu-i 21 ated against the procedural requirements, and at that time d 22 it would be decided as to whether there was a violation or 3

! 23 a citation situation in -- in order or not. What happened 24 after that, I do not know.

25 ff


_ =_- - . ~ .


lb 1


2 O You mentioned that this -- something about this rod 3 being used for construction support activities. I don't 4 "

recall the exact words --

5 A Construction aid.

4 6 Q Construction aid. Does that mean it was not rod 7

that was going to be used in a permanently-installed System, l 8 structure or component?

i 9 A That's true. It was uncontrolled to the point of


to where a -- well, a non-qualified welder could take it and 11 weld up a plowshare or a back end of a truck or things of 12 that nature.

13 Q Was that in fact --

14 A In a shop.

15 Q Was that in fact wher.e this rod was used?

) 16 A Yes. It was in a civil warehouse building, uncon-i 17 trolled, where they could go into the oven, which was not 18 hooked up, by the way. It was just uncontrolled rod that l .

19 was to be used at that point only, not to be used in the 20 field or to be carried in the field.

i 21 Q To your knowledge, were there any instances where 22 uncontrolled rod was used on a safety-related component, ,

! 23 structure or system at Diablo Canyon?

24 A None to my knowledge that was never recorded.

25 Q And these that were recorded, were they properly e

,.--_....,,,_.__._.--m. - . _ _ _ , . - . _ ~ - _ - . . . _ - . - _ , . - _ . . . _ _ . . . _ _ _ - _ - . _ . _ , - - - - -


1 . .

t i

. 10

) 17 ,

( . 1 dispensed?

~2 A Yes. I am sure that there -- you would find that f

l 3 there was non-conformances written on any situation like that.

] 4 Q Following the -- your return from the break, was 5 you -- I guess Mr. Jones mentioned that you recalled another

6 incident involving welding over a weekend and non-controlled 7 rod. Could you describe that event to us?
  • l 8 A That was the one I just . . .

'9 Q Oh, okay.

10 A . . . described.

11 Q Okay. So that rod --

12 A of . . .

13 0 -- involved what -- what you referred to as " con-i ('

  • 14 struction support"?

15 MR. POWER: Aid --

16 THE WITNESS: Construction aid.

17 MR. POWER: Aid.

I 18 MR. BISHOP: Construction aid.

1 g 19 'THE WITNESS: I wasn't -- but before I went to this I

j j 20 meeting, I was instructed by Mr. Moses that you don't point

' i

! 21 the finger at Mr. Rockwell of PG&E, let the Foley organiza-J t

l d 22 tion take the brunt of this.


1 24 Q I see. Now this was in reference to the NRC find-25 ings that some filler material was not being properly

e -

18 s 1 controlled?

2 A Yes.

3 MR. BISHOP: Any other comments or --

4 MR. POWER: Not with this --

5 MR. BISHOP: -- questions you have in reference to --

6 MR. POWER: You have something?

7i MR. BISHOP: -- weld-rod filler material. control?

8 MR. BURDOIN: Well, I'm acquainted with this inci-9 dent because it occurred on that inspection, I think, that 10 Gonzalo and I made --


12 MR. BURDOIN: -- over there, and I believe that was 13 around the 17th of January, that week of the 17th, I believe.

14 MR. POWER: All's satisfactory, taken care of?

15 MR. BURDOIN: Yes, I believe this issue has been 16 resolved. Exactly the resolution, I couldn't tell you the 17 details without going back to my notes. It's -- it's written 18 in the report that's part of the . . .

19 MR. BISHOP: The inspection report?

20 MR. BLRDOIN: Yes, it's in the inspection report.

21 MR. PCWER: Right.

22 MR. BISHOP: Okay. I think, Gene, you had some 23 further questions about the red tag --

24 MB. POWER: Yes.

25 MR. BISHOP: -- situation that we talked about

.._ - - -= - -. ..

. e ,

12 33 1 earlier.


3 Q And I don't mean to infer something that you haven't 4

said. I'm interested in the normal disposition of the red 5, tags. I believe you indicated you found them in the offices' 6 one morning when you came to work, in reference to several, 7 several red tags.

8 A Yes.

9 Q All right. What would have been the normal disposi-10 tion? What directed, do you recall, your attention to the 11 red tags in -- in the office that, that time?

12 A I couldn't tell you that. Through general conversa-13 tion . . . or by word of mouth, by possibly one of my super-i 1-4 visors. There were so many at that time and so many questior,s 15 regarding the work in the field, and such a big push on get-16 ting the work done and getting the red tags down. And ...

17 i Q Do you normally have red tags -- did you normally j 18 have red tags in your office?

i 19 A No, never.

j t l 20 Q What would be the normal disposition from the QC,

.i 2' either QC or QC -- QE, whatever you call 'em, the individual j

d 22 inspector, what is the disposition of a red tag when they 2

j l 23 finally take care of the NCR?

24 A Well, going through the sequence, you would identify


25 a non-conforming situation in the field; you'd write the non- ,


( ;

l l


{ 31 I

I to the red tag? Who pulls it off the piece of equipment?

2 A The inspector doesn't pull the red tag off until 3 the last signature is on non-conformance and the com -- the 4 corrective action completed is acceptable, and signed off.

5 At that time, the red tag comes of'f.

6 Q Okay. What happens to the red tag, the physical 7 disposition --

8 A The red tag --

9 Q -- of the red tag?

10 A -- is destroyed.

11 Q Destroyed, by --

12 A Yes.

I 13 Q -- that QC inspector?

14 A Yes.

15 Q Okay. It's an unusual situation where you would 16 have some type of red tags that were not blank that would i 17 end up in your office?

18 A Yes. .

19 Q Okay.*

20 MR. JONES: I think he said -- didn't he say before 21 the break that that was the only time it ever happened?

Yes, I believe --


i, 24 MR. POWER: -- that is true, yes. Right.

25 MR. JONES: Meets my definition of unusual.

_ _ . . - _ . _ ~ . - _ -

13 a0


' 1 conformance up on it, identifying it with a number.

2 Q es, just how it's --

3 A And --

4 Q -- disposition. We went through that previously.

5 A Yes. '

h -6 Q You don't have to repeat that.

7 A Okay. And then you would have a corrective action l 8 portion, and that corrective action would have to be rein-9 spected in the field in accordance with procedures and so on, 4

10 and approved documentation on it accepted, acceptable docu- .I 11 mentation on it to justify the corrective action. And at 12 that time the -- it would be signed off by the project man-l 13 ager of the Howard P. Foley Company and by the project -- or,


14 by PG&E, which --

t 15 Q Okay. Before, before it gets to that point, how 16 does it get from the QC inspector up to the project manager -

17 and H.P. Foley?


! 18 A Well, the corrective action is typed in by the ,

i g 19 people who do do'the work, I mean, as to what was d'one to j 20 correct --

i i

j i 21 Q I mean, I mean --


! f 22 A -- the situation.

l 23 Q I mean a little more -- I mean a little lower th'n a 24 that. In reference to the, the actual performance by a QC 25 inspector as he inspects it, it's all correct. What happens i

i I ,

32 1 MR. POWER: Now -- and I agree.


3 Q You don't recall specifically, though, what directed 4 your attention to those red tags. It could have been a con-5 versation or . . .

6 A Well, I think it was the fact that there --

7 Q They were there --

8 A -- was so much harassment over -- over the fact that 9 there were red tags in the field --

10 Q Okay.

11 A -- and they wanted them down, PG&E --

12 Q Did you physically leak at --

13 A -- and Howard P. Foley.

1-4 Q -- these red tags?

15 A Pardon me?

16 Q Did you physically read these red tags?

17 A No, I did not.

18 Q Do you know whether or not they were completed red 19 tags, had they already gotten an NCR number and some type of 20 dis. pali -- disqualifying item indicated on these red tags?

21 A They were red tags that were hanging in the field.

22 Aqd --

23 Q How do you know they were red tags that were hanging 24 in the field?

25 A I was told that.


'l 16 l 33

( 1 Q And who told --

2 A I --

3 Q -- you that they were --

4 A Mr. Bob Carter. I asked him if he pulled these red 5 tags and he said yes.

6 Q Okay.

7 A And it was by Mr. Moses' request --

8 Q All right.

9 A -- that he pulled them. He was --

10 Q Now, to the best of --

. 11 A -- called in the office and told to pull them.'

12 Q Okay. And to the best of your knowledge, these 13 would have been -- everything up till that point in time


14 then, best of your knowledge, was procedurally correct.--

15 they would have had an NCR number, they would have been i 16 properly completed -- not the job. There's no reason to g

17 question anything else, -- up till the time that Carter said j 18 he was directed to remove them from some type of equipment g 19 or whatever.

l 20 A That's true. We --

21 Q Okay. And that situation, do you have personal s

f 22 knowledge as to the final disposition of the NCR for which l 23 those red tags were written?

24 A No. I left too quick.

25 Q Okay. What -- what date, do you recall? I don't k

n, , n n , - --- - _ - - . , ~ , - , - - - - - - - , - - - - - , - - - - - - ' - - - - -

b .

1 3)

I remember the date of these red tags. I thought we were

2 talking December of the last year, were we?

~3 MR. BISHOP: I thought we had talked about the 4 second or third week of February.

5 MR. JONES: February was --

6 THE WITNESS: Yes, that's right. Yes.

7 MR. POWER: Okay.

8 MR. JONES: That was my recall, was --

9 THE WITNESS: Very late in February.

10 MR. POWER: All right. I didn't -- I'm just trying

, 11 to talk. I have nothing else on the red tags.

12 MR. BISHOP: I have one further question that relates 13 to the red tags.


15 Q This reason reported to you by Mr. Moses for the 16 wanting the removal of the red tags was that it was hampering 1

t 17 the progress of construction, and you said sometning about

18 the crafts not having been there long enough to -- to know 19 that under certain conditions they can work through a red tag .

20 Could you tell us whether the -- the craft are i doctrinated 21 as to the meaning of a red tag when they come to the Diablo l

22 Canyon site?

23 A I really do not have the knowledge of that because 24 the QC or QA department is not responsible for the training 25 of the field hands. I mean, that's strictly up to the super-1 I


,__ ____ - - _ _ .. _ _- ~..... _ _ _ _ _ _ - _ _ _ _ _ ,_ _,_, - _ _ _ . _ _ , _ _ . . . , .

'18 35 i'

1 intendents in chdrge of the crafts. ..

2 Q As a quality assurance manager, you didn't have a 3

function of auditing that type of activity?

4 l A No, our procedure didn't cover that.

l 5 Q Based on your experience in the quality assurance 6

field, did the crafts working at Diablo Canyon appear to have 7

sufficient training in the area of a general indoctrination

. 8 of quality requirements in working on a nuclear plant, as 9

far as administrative requirements go, red tags, non-conform-10 ance reports and things of that nature?

! 11 A I really couldn't -- couldn't make a statement on f

12 that. I think there's more qualified people to do that than 13 me.

l 14 MR. BISHOP: Okay.



16 Q I'd like to ask some general comments relative to 17
. records, any records relating to nuclear safety put on by l

18 H . 'P . Foley or generated by H.P. Foley. Are you aware of any i

[ j 19 situations of any possibility of incorrect or falsified rec-l l j 20 ords of any type at Diablo Canyon?


'l3 21 A The NCR.

22 p 5 MR. JCNES: Go ahead.

i i 23 THE WITNESS: There was an NCR, non-conformance 24 f report, which was generated, as I said beture, the morning i

25 of December the 3rd, 8 --

m h

3'b 1 MR. JONES: March 3rd. ..

2 THE WITNESS: March 3rd, I'm sorry, '83. And the 3 non-conformance was roughed out and handed in by Mr. Rick 4 Roan and Michael Cox, who was the supervisor over rod attend-5 ant people, covering the situation, telling exactly what the 6 non-conformance was and how it was caused, relating times, 7 we were told, relating exactly why we left our station and 8 everything. And the non-conformance now is completely 9 changed. It doesn't cover the rough statements that was 10 originally put into it. The non-conformance also states that 11 I was discharged or terminated because of this problem, also 12 Mr. Roan.


14 Q In reference to the specific information portaining 15 to the technical violation or non-conformance, are you awar2 16 of whether or not that is basically the same as it was in the 17 first issue? In other words, what I'm saying is if the hill 18 is sliding because of mud or it's raining too much, whatever, 19 that really has nothing to do with the technical issue per 20 se; the issue would be that the weld rods were not maintained 21 in accordance with procedure. So therefore, a roughing out 22 may not have to be necessarily what we would call, quote, "a 23 falsified record." There's a difference. I want you to 24 understand that.

25 A Yes.

20 ,


(. 1 Q So that's why I am interested in -- you say it was 2 changed. How was it changed? What were the technical issues 3 changed in this case?

4 A Well, I think the non-conformance now merely states 5 that weld rod attendants left their station, giving no reason 6 for it, breaching security or anything to that effect, and 7 more or less points the finger at Mr. Roan and myself as 8 being responsible for this situation, not giving any kind of 9 a reason for it.

10 Q Okay. I understand what you're saying, but what I 11 want you to also is understand is from a Government point of 12 view that is not necessarily an incorrect or falsified rec-13 ord. We're interested in technical issues.

i 14 A Um hm.

15 Q As to whether or not Jones did it or Mike did it or 16 someone else, that -- that doesn't become a Government issue, 17 MR. JONES: Are you asking whether anything was 18

! changed with regard to the reporting on the disposition of t

i 19 the rod itself?

j 20 MR. POWER: Yes. Yes, the technical evaluation as

, 21 to how long it was out, you know, when it was out, and this

f 22 type of nature. That's specifically what we're interested j 23 in.

. 24 THE WITNESS: I don't think there was anything in 1

25 that --

( ;

w_ _

4 -- a a 2 e.---- A 4 -


. e s

i^' '

33 ,

1 MR. POWER: You indicated ,,-

2 THE WITNESS: -- line that was changed.


4 0 -- that it is now changed. How do you know it was 5 changed? '

-6 A I have a. copy of the non-conformance.

7 Q The last revised . . .

8 A A revised copy of the non-confornance as to why I .

9- was terminated.

10 0 Is that on the --

t l 11 A On the proposed disposition. .

l 12 Q Okay. Do you have a copy of the original NCR, for j 13 that date and time, March the 3rd?

14 A A copy of the original?


[ 15 C Yes.

I 16 A You mean prior to the rough?

17 Q Yes. No -- well, you said you --

, 18 MR. JONES: The rough draft.

J l 19 BY MR. POWER:

i 20 Q Yes. You said you -- you gave a -- they had a rough l


! 21 draft and it told exactly what happened and how it occurred, 22 and subsequently it was changed. -If you have what was origi-l 23 nally roughed out, we would like to see that copy and then 24 the final one that was changed, if you he.vc --

l i

l 25 A I don't have the copy of the rough. But as standard.



. 30 k 1 procedure, and has always been with my department in issuing 2 non-conformances, the rough is kept in the file, the Howard 3 P. Foley Company file, along with all pertinent information 4 regarding a non-conformance.

5 , O To the best of your knowledge, the rough then should 6' therefore --

7 A That rough --

8 Q -- be in the file? ,

9 A -- should be there.

10 0 In reference to preparing a rough, in this case 11 I believe you indicated Roan and Cox prepared the rough.

12 A Yes.

13 Q Is that correct? Is it safe to assume that someone l 14 within your office then types the finalized deal, puts it 15 all together?

16 A Yes.

17 Q And you get a number for it. Who has the responsi-18 l bility for reviewing a rough NCR and determining whether or l g 19 not it's valid, whether or not there's sufficient information

l j 20 in there? Who performs that function within your staff?

I i j ! 21 'A That goes to the QA manager, Mr. Jin Thompson, and o a a 22 his QAEs, which are his engineers, who will get with possibly a

i 23 a person who wrote the non-conformance up, and . . .

! 24 Q And attempt to determine the --

I l 25 A Yes.

! k l



i L -. -

1 50 1 0 -- disposition?

2 A Yes.

3 Q So what we might possibly have -- and this is my

, 4 opinion and I don't mean to infer it's yours -- is that what 1 .5 originally started out with the rough draft is considerably -

! 6 different than the finalized report, from what you have been 7 led to believe. It could be possibly be incorrect. Am I --

8 or is lacking in details as to the entire picture --

9 A Lacking in detail.

10 Q All right.


12 Q Do you think the report as written varies substan-13 tially from a regulatory perspective, as far as identifying 14 whether there was a compliance or non-compliance with proce-15 dures?

l 16 A Well, your non-conformance procedure, QCB-3, which 17 is a Howard P. Foley Company procedure, states in part that is when you write a non-conformance you also write in the reason 19 for the non-conformance --

l 20 MR. POWER: Extenuating circumstances?

l l 21 THE WITNESS: Right. This was done on the rough.


i 23 Q I see. And that doesn't -- didn't appear in the 24 final version.

25 A Right.

l i

l i

.- ~. . -.

24 61 i

( 1 BY MR.' POWER:


  • 2 Q Other than that one instance, are you aware of any 3 situations where there would be any records that could have 4 been construed by someone as to being falisfied records?
  • 5 I'm not interested in honest mistakes. We realize there --

6 a difference of opinion, supervisors change their word peri-l 7 odically. I'm specifically interested in falsified records.

8 That becomes a criminal act.

l 9 A No, I am not.


10 MR. BISHOP I have -- I keep returning to this 11 issue. I have one more question about the red tag situation 12 that's been discussed for quite some time now.


i N'

14 Q After these tags were_ turned in to the office, f 15 having been, in your mind, improperly removed, did you or

j. 16 did anyone to your knowledge take action to document this '

f' ; 17 event in a non-conformance report or any type of official 18

! record? ,

i 19 A No, I think at that time everybody felt the -- well, l ; 20 this is strictly surmising. But at that time everybody knew F i l,

l j 21 if they fought the system, their time was fairly short. It's

l. f 22 about all I can say on it.

! 3 l [ 23 MR. BISHOP: Okay.


25 I'd like to ask you a question, Virgil, about those Q


62 1

red tags. When those red tags were,.found there in your 2

office that motning,~did you have the feeling or attitude, 3

or do you know that the red tags had been properly processed 4

or that they had not been properly processed before removal?

5 Maybe it was that they had been properly processed during 6 the night. Is that possible?

7 A No. No, they were -- they were pulled for the 8 reason of -- of letting the -- or requiring the field hands 9 to continue with their work because they were unaware of the 10 procedure and they were afraid to work throuch a red tag.

It And the-red tag situation really, it does scare the field 12 hands out. They -- they don't want to deviate from procedure 13 if they -- they possibly know what to do.

14 Q How was it that the management of Foley hoped to 15 rectify this situation or -- or follow up on tne red tags and .

16 correct these NCRs? ,

17 A ,I do not know. It wasn't discussed with me, John.


19 Q Were the -- did Mr. Moses specifically identify 20 which red tags were to be removed when -- when you and he 21 had the discussion on this subject?

22 A No. No, there was no specific type of red tag or -

23 anything. It was -- he was very adamant about red tag situ-24 ation.

25 Q Okay. How about Mr. Carter, he -- did he discuss

26 g*J

(- - 1 with you why he removed those particular red tags, or did , .

l 2

that amount to all red tags -- what, there were -- you men-3 tioned there were approximately ten? ;

f 4

A Mr. Carter told me that he was called up to Mr.

t 5

Moses' office and told to get those red tags down so that


3 the work'd continue.

7 Q Does that include all red tags that were currently 4

8 out in the field, hung by the H.P. Foley Company? .

9 MR. JONES: If you know. Do you know? l 10 ~

THE WITNESS: No, I don't.

11 BY MR. BISHOP: i 12 Q Okay. Do you know where these red tags were removed '

13 from?



14 A Not exactly, no.

15 Q Do you know which building they were -- had been 16 removed from? '-


g 17 A I would assume they were fuel-handling building. .,

g 18 .

BY MR. F0WER: s.

l i i 19 Q Was that where you were then working, H.P. Foley? ;

j 20 A Yes. Well, H.P. Foley was working all, you know, t


3 j g 21 the hot lab and -- ht L f- ^

22 g well __



! 23 A -- fuel-handling building and turbine building, 24 everything at the same time.

4 25 Q Can you recall any of the individuals that are m

f . - - - - - - - wy .-r-w , - - - v- ,.F ,y- r- - . . _ - - - - - , . - - -, -, - -

--3. %-, , ,,- ,,-,w,,--,,------,----_.,.,,m _- .+. ._ _-_

- o 61 4

' I subordinate to' Carter, that Carter sppervises on the -- his 2 shift?

3 4

MR. JONES: On the -- on that night in question?

4 MR. POWER: Yes.

4 5 MR. JONES: Just the -- l 6

MR. POWER: We would be interested in talking to 7

them. It's much easier if we know before --

8 MR. JONES: The names of the people, Virgil, that .

9 were working for Carter that night?

10 THE WITNESS: Supervisory capacity, or . . .

i 11 BY MR. POWER:

12 Q Oh, both. I don ' t -- I have no idea of the size of

. 13 the crowd that would have been working that evening. A 14 couple of each would be sufficient, that we could get, basi-1 15 cally, an honest evaluation of what occurred.the evening of 16 or the morning of -- I don't know, the hours.that'they work.

l 17 A Well, I'd say . . . kind of blank. Mr. Lowe.ll 18 Fiddler.

19 Q F-I-D-D-L-E-R?

20 A Yes. Was a --

21 What's his position?

Q 22 A -- supervisor over the iron workers inspectors, or 23 civil group, I might say, inspection. Also, Mr. Aguida.

24 Do you know how to spell his name? Aguida?

Q 25 A (No response. )

  • 1 28 O'#

( 1 Q Is that the best of your knowledge, Aguida?

2 A Yes. James Aguada.

3 Q What was his position? I 4 A The supervisor, in the same. capacity.

5 Q Can you give us an estimate of the size of crew 6 that would be working that evening for H.P. Foley?

7 MR. JONES: You mean inspect -- in, in quality?

8 MR. POWER: Yes, right, in quality.

9 THE WITNESS: I'd say there must have been in the to neighborhood of 25 or 30 in that particular group. We were l

11 changing people so fast back and forth that I -- I just i 12 could not keep up with the numbers at that time.

13 BY MR. BISHOP: l i

14 Q When you say "back and forth," back and forth from 15 What?

16 A Well, from days to nights. I'm sorry.

17 MR. BISHOP: I see. Thank you.

l 18 BY MR. POWER:

y 19 O They work in two shifts, three shifts?

j 20 A Two, 10-hour shifts. ,

a l 21 0 10-hour shifts.

a l f 22 A Six days.

! l 23 MR. POWER: And -- okay.


25 Q I'd like to change the subject back to another item, t

i f



- , -- - - . . ,. ,... - - =. _

V O 4


, 60 1 First of all,.in terms of background, one thing we didn't ,,

2 ask you at the very beginning, but perhaps you could address 3 now is, prior to coming to Diablo Canyon were you ever in-4 volved in an -- any other nuclear work?

5 A No.

6 O Any other work which involved a formalized quality 7 assurance program, such as military, aerospace, and things t

8 of that nature?

9 A I worked for Douglas Aircraft.

I 10 Q In the quality assurance area?

4 11 A No. Production. I worked for Todd Shipyard, which 12 we were under contract with the Navy. ,

13 Q Did you work under a quality assurance program there?

14 A We worked under a quality assurance program and I 15 did have a -- I was presented a stamp by the quality assur-16 ance department to' evaluate my -- my department's work and 17 stamp some of it off. I i' i l 18 Q You mentioned that you were a Level 3 inspector. ,

19 What was the basis for you qualification as a Level 3?

i i 20 A It was based on years, number of years experience, 1

21 I guess, related to field in -- field inspection or time in f

i 22 quality assurance and quality control at Diablo, and numerous 1 l l 23 quality indoctrinations, workshops, courses, through L. Marvin l

24 Johnson and -- you know, various types like that, as data 25 matrix, and possibly background in the mechanical portion or

t l

l 4


! 30 67 i 1 the hands-on work that I had been involved in prior to 2 coming to Diablo.

3 Q I see. Were you hired ae the quality control 4 ' manager at Diablo Canyon in 1974?

5 A No. I was hired as a quality assurance engineer.

l 6 Q I see. Were you given an ANSI-level quality assur-7 ance level at that point in time, Level 1, 2 or 3?

4 8 A No, I was never ANSI-leveled until December of . . <

9 Q '82?


10 A '82.

11 Q I see. Okay. That's . . . One of the items I 12 wanted to get your professional opinion on was the competency 13 of the ins -- your inspection staff up until Deccmber '82.

('- 14 Did you feel that there were -- that the inspection staff 15 was competent up until that point, or did you feel otherwise?


! 16 A I didn't really feel it was incompetent because'of i

17 the type of procedures that we working to. Our procedures

- t L ! 18 were reviewed in and accepted by Pacific Gas and Electric i

j 19 Company who was monitoring our quality program, and they

'j 20 were approved, the proce -- all procedures were approved by i

i a

21 Pacific Gas and Electric Company prior to being instituted.

f 22 So any inspection that was done, if a -- we took some -- we E 3 l ; 23 did hire some inexperienced people, but they were indoctri-I 24 nated and they were not turned loose in the field until we i 25 felt they -- they could perform their task properly and fill


l l




w -

t 63 1

out their forms and document. But ,they were signing off 2 their own inspections at the time we did turn them loose in 3 the field on their own.

4 0 I see. We've talked about several issues so far d

5 today. We've talked about the red tag issue,'we've talked 6

about inspection staff confiden -- competence, and we've 7

talked about the weld rod control issue that occurred in the 8 latter part of February and early March of ' 83. Were there 9

any other instances that you'have knowledge of where quality to requirements were not properly followed within the area of 11 jurisdiction of H.P. Foley Company at Diablo Canyon?

I 12 A None that I could specifically call out right now, j 13 but they are all on file within the Pacific Gas and Electric s

4 14 Company's audit group. I mean, their QC and their QA per-15 formed audits and did write procedural violations up against 16 the Howard P. Foley Company.

17 Q Were there any of these instances which to yeur


18 knowledge were not properly followed up?

f l 19 A Not to my knowledge.

20 Q Is there anything else that you feel we should be 21 aware of in relation to the Diablo Canyon activities?

22 MR. JONES: Here I am going to instruct you to

, 23 confine your answer to technical issues rather than anything 24 that affect -- that bears upon your own termination.

25 MR. BISHOP: That's principally our concern, is --


b d

m g ---u -, ,------,w-- -,-m,---,----,g,,-,,-,,,n 7 cw- -,--am._-~-,.n- ,,.,.n. ,-r-_-< _

e . - - - - , ,-- -


(;9 1

MR. JONES: Yes, that's --

2 MR. BISHOP: -- is the technical issues.

3 MR. JONES: I understand that.

4 THE WITNESS: I . . .

5 MR. JONES': Go ahead.

6 THE WITNESS: I . . .


8 O Do you have any, any situations --

9 A No, I have nothing at this time.

10 Q Okay.

11 MR. .EISHOP: Okay.


13 0 I previously believe, if you're getting close to 14 the end, that you previously made a comment relative to the 15 possibility of a problem concerning security guards or the 16 security system at Palos Verdes that you had direct knowledge <

17 of. Was that previously discussed?

! 18 MR. BISHOP: I believe you mean Diablo Canyon.

g 19 MR. POWER: Diablo, okay.

Pa]os Verdes, we're down

20 there a lot.

i i

I :




d 22 Q At Diablo. Were there any other concerns or issues t

, j 23 that you wanted to raise relative to the implementation of l

24 security at --

25 A No, none.

l I


~ -


1 Q Okay. I didn't know if the incident we previously 2 discussed covered the issue.

3 A Other than -- we were very careful not to breach 4 security. We --

5 0 All right. So the test --

6 A -- we were cautioned --

, 7 -- of your knowledge --

Q 8 A -- many times, Don't breach security." And --

9 Q Yes. No problems, no known violations of . . .

to A None to my knowledge.

11 Q Okay.


13 Q I guess I really have only one general comment that I

14 I wanted to get your impression on, and I'm sure with your 15 broad background in the construction area you're familiar

16 with normal job pressures that are associated with any large 17 construction task. And scmetimes those construction-pres-l 18

! sures are misinterpreted and result in actions contrary to ,


19 the quality requirements of the project. In this instance 20 you mentioned the removal of the red tags where a specific l

21 instruc' tion was given which you relate to excessive pressure 22 by a senior member of the Foley site management team. What 23 would you -- how would you characterize the pressures, the 24 other instances of pressures? Were they more than would be 25 expected at a construction project with tight schedules?

I 4

a ye--r ++My-y e,.u-.--

.. J 1


! . 71 1

/. .


\- 1 MR. JONES: Virgil, I think.in answering that you (

! 2 should confine yourself to comparing the precsure that you 3 experienced there to the pressures you experienced at other, 4 other positions you've held. I. don't really think you should


j_ 5 speculate about the -- ybu know, the construction industry l

6 in general.

7 MR. BISHOP: That would be fine.

8 THE WITNESS: Well, I think I -- I don't think I've j 9 ever had the pressure and been put in a position I have on 10 this job. I've never had it on any other job. No. :


J-l 12 O Would you say that that pressure up until the latter 13 part of February, 1983, was such that it created any kind of 14 a quality problem at Diablo Canyon?

15 A I really can't answer that one.

l 16 MR. JONES: Well, are you asking him whether as the I

17 result of the pressure he did -- he did anything different g

S -

18 than he might have wanted to do it?


19 MR. BISHOP: No. I'm asking him, as a result of the I

20 . pressure, were there instances where the quality program

! a

l. ! 21 requirements were violated up until the February '83 time a

f 22 frame?


, j 23 THE WITNESS: Why, we had a number of procedural 24 violations, yes, which were recorded and are in the files at 25 this time under the very non-conformance and IR program that i

4 I

I. - - - , , , . - - , . g. , . - . . - - , _ . . ,.-.-_=-- -,_.-_ ... . _ ,_ ._____,-_- , - - - - - - - - . _ _ _ . - - - - - - - - . . _ - ~ . - - - - - - -

w -

72 I we had.


i 3 C Would an examination of those records indiccte the 4 cause was excesrive pressure?

5 -

A I can't really answer that one. I . . . no, I can' '

l 6 --

I can't surmise. I think everyone would look at it, maybe i

i 7 interpret it a little bit differently.

8 MR. B-ISHOP: I have no further questions. Do i

9 either'. . .

10 MR. POWER: No, I have no other questions.

, 11 MR. BISHOP: John?

12 MR. BURDOIN: 60, I don't have any, 13 MR. JONES: Okay.

14 MR. POWER: Unless you would like to raise some i

15 other issue, Virgil?

16 MR. JONES: No, this is --

17 THE WITNESS: No. I have nothing --

18 MR. JONES: This is,their party. Let them raise 19 the issues.

20 THE WITNESS: I have nothing.

21 MR. POWER: Okay. The time I have is, what -- 1556?

4 t

22 MR. BURDOIN: 1556 is good enough for me.

23 MR. JONES: Well, can we talk off the record here?


24 You're going to stop the record now?

25 MR. POWER: Oh, yes. We're off the . . .

t t

v v ,,_,.y , . , _ . , _ . _ . _ _ , . . _ , . , . _ , . -

' ~

, p 36 7j t

's 1 THE REPORTER: Off the record?

2 y.P . POWER: Off the record.

3 (Whereupon, at 3:56 p.m., the interview was closed.)

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