ML24320A085

NRC Meeting Transcript 10/30/2024 Public Meeting on the Real Id Act Implementation and Considerations for NRC Nuclear Power Plant Licensees

ML24320A085
Person / Time
Issue date:	10/30/2024
From:	Brian Zaleski NRC/NSIR/DPCP/AAFPB
To:
References
ML24302A251, NRC-0084
Download: ML24320A085 (72)

Text

Official Transcript of Proceedings NUCLEAR REGULATORY COMMISSION

Title:

Public Meeting on the Real ID Act:

Considerations for NRC Nuclear Power Plant Licenses Docket Number:

(n/a)

Location:

teleconference Date:

Wednesday, October 30, 2024 Work Order No.:

NRC-0084 Pages 1-71 NEAL R. GROSS AND CO., INC.

Court Reporters and Transcribers 1716 14th Street, N.W.

Washington, D.C. 20009 (202) 234-4433

1 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1716 14th STREET, N.W., SUITE 200 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20009-4309 www.nealrgross.com UNITED STATES OF AMERICA NUCLEAR REGULATORY COMMISSION

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PUBLIC MEETING ON THE REAL ID ACT: CONSIDERATIONS FOR NRC NUCLEAR POWER PLANT LICENSES

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WEDNESDAY, OCTOBER 30, 2024 The meeting was convened via Videoconference, at 3:00 p.m. EDT, Justin Vazquez, Facilitator, presiding.

PRESENT:

JUSTIN

VAZQUEZ, Chief, Access Authorization, Fitness For Duty, and Policy Branch (AAFPB),

Division of Physical and Cyber Security (DPCP),

Office of Nuclear Security and Incident Response (NSIR)

BRAD BAXTER, Security Specialist, AAFPB/DPCP/NSIR TONY BOWERS, Deputy Director DPCP, NSIR JAMES MALTESE, Office of the General Counsel MARK

RESNER, Senior Security Specialist, AAFPB/DPCP/NSIR NORMAN ST. AMOUR, Office of the General Counsel SHAKUR WALKER, Acting Director DPCP, NSIR

2 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1716 14th STREET, N.W., SUITE 200 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20009-4309 www.nealrgross.com BRIAN ZALESKI, Specialist, Fitness For Duty/Access Authorization, AAFPB/DPCP/NSIR ALSO PRESENT:

ANDREW S. ANDERSON, Constellation Nuclear MATT DEIGNAN, Entergy Nuclear ALLEN FULMER, Dominion Energy GEORGE

PETERSEN, Transportation Security Administration, U.S. Department of Homeland Security TEDDY REED, Duke Energy JOHNNY ROGERS, Nuclear Energy Institute BRIAN ZEPNICK, Dominion Energy

3 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1716 14th STREET, N.W., SUITE 200 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20009-4309 www.nealrgross.com

4 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1716 14th STREET, N.W., SUITE 200 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20009-4309 www.nealrgross.com P-R-O-C-E-E-D-I-N-G-S (3:02 p.m.)

MR. VAZQUEZ: Good afternoon, everyone.

Thank you for joining today's public meeting. My name is Justin Vazquez and I am the Chief for the Access Authorization, Fitness for Duty, and Policy Branch in the Nuclear Regulatory Commission's Office of Nuclear Security and Incident Response.

This afternoon, we'll be discussing the REAL ID Act of 2005 and associated considerations for nuclear power plants licensed by the NRC.

Before we jump to the conversation, we'll go over a few logistics. Today's meeting is a virtual meeting hosted by the NRC with staff also in attendance from the U.S. Department of Homeland Security's Transportation Security Administration.

This meeting is an information meeting with a question-and-answer session intended to give NRC staff the opportunity to meet directly with individuals to discuss regulatory and technical issues.

After some brief introductions, we'll proceed with our NRC presentation on the topic at hand followed by a question-and-answer session,

5 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1716 14th STREET, N.W., SUITE 200 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20009-4309 www.nealrgross.com during which attendees will have an opportunity to ask questions of the NRC staff or make comments about the issues discussed throughout the meeting.

To facilitate the meeting, we will be going through all presentation materials before we proceed to the question-and-answer session, so please hold any questions or comments that you may have until the end. Now, that being said, our staff will be monitoring the Teams chat throughout the meeting, so if you have any questions that come up along the way, please feel free to post them in the chat and we will address all questions, time permitting, towards the end of the meeting.

As we will discuss a bit more later in the presentation, discussion during today's meeting will help to inform future communications that the NRC is planning to issue on this topic. However, the NRC is not actively soliciting comments towards any regulatory decisions at this meeting. Now, along those lines, please note that today's meeting will be transcribed so that NRC staff can refer back to any comments for consideration as we're developing our communications.

Also, for anyone unable to see the

6 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1716 14th STREET, N.W., SUITE 200 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20009-4309 www.nealrgross.com shared material in Microsoft Teams, which should be displaying right now, or anyone just looking for a copy of the presentation materials, the slides that we will be going through can be accessed via the NRC's Agency Documents Access and Management System, ADAMS, at accession number ML24302A252 and, again, if you're trying to write that down, ML24302 alpha 252. A link to the slides is also included in the NRC public web page for this meeting, which is a pretty quick and easy link to access if you're looking for that.

So, now I'm going to stop presenting for a moment so that we can proceed with NRC and TSA staff introductions, but before we jump into that, I just wanted to once again thank everyone for attending today's meeting. We know that there has been a lot of interest and curiosity regarding this topic among our stakeholders in the nuclear industry, so it's very important that we have this opportunity to meet and touch base about the REAL ID Act and its implications for our licensees.

With that, let's go around the room. We'll start with the NRC staff and NSIR and we'll begin, I believe I saw Shakur on the call.

7 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1716 14th STREET, N.W., SUITE 200 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20009-4309 www.nealrgross.com MR. WALKER: Yes, thank you, Justin.

Shakur Walker, Acting Director for the Division of Physical and Cyber Security Policy here in NSIR.

The REAL ID, Justin, are in our division so, again, I want to echo Justins comments, thank you for being here.

I look forward to a

fruitful discussion, so thank you.

MR. VAZQUEZ: Great, thanks, Shakur.

Tony?

MR. BOWERS: Yes, good afternoon. My name is Tony Bowers. I'm the Deputy Director Division of Physical and Cyber Security Policy here at the NRC.

MR. VAZQUEZ: Mark?

MR. RESNER: Good afternoon, I'm Mark Resner. I'm a Senior Security Specialist and will be answering your questions if and when you have any. Thank you.

MR. VAZQUEZ: Brian?

MR. ZALESKI: Hi, I'm Brian Zaleski.

I'm a Fitness for Duty and Access Authorization Specialist at the NRC.

MR. VAZQUEZ: And I saw Brad is with us.

8 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1716 14th STREET, N.W., SUITE 200 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20009-4309 www.nealrgross.com MR. BAXTER: Yes, good afternoon. My name is Brad Baxter. I'm in the Office of Nuclear Security and Incident

Response, Access Authorization Program Manager.

MR. VAZQUEZ: Great, good to see you.

The NRC legal team, Norm?

MR. ST. AMOUR: Hello, I'm Norman St.

Amour, Office of the General Counsel NRC, senior attorney for nuclear security issues.

MR. VAZQUEZ: I see James is on the call as well. Jim?

MR. MALTESE: Good afternoon. Jim Maltese, also a senior attorney in the Office of the General Counsel at NRC.

MR. VAZQUEZ: I think that those are the main participants, but I'll pause there. Was there anyone else from the NRC that wanted to introduce yourselves? Okay, then we'll go over DHS for introductions. George, I'll let you lead that.

MR. PETERSEN: Hello, everybody. My name is George Petersen.

I'm with the Transportation Security Administration. I'm the Senior Program Manager for the REAL ID program.

Pleasure to be here.

9 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1716 14th STREET, N.W., SUITE 200 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20009-4309 www.nealrgross.com MR. VAZQUEZ: Great, George. Thank you very much. If I may pause and say we are truly grateful for the support that the TSA team has provided over the past few months as we've gotten ready for these discussions. Also, as aptly mentioned just a few minutes ago before we got started, the hard work that you've been putting into the final stages of the implementation for the READ ID Act. This is an act that impacts tens, hundreds of thousands of people across the country and we thank the team for taking the time to support today's discussion during this busy period.

With that, I'm going to start sharing slides again and we will proceed. Brian, do we have the CD agenda slide?

MR. ZALESKI: Yes.

MR. VAZQUEZ: Great, very good. So, moving on, for those that are new to this topic, what is the REAL ID Act? The REAL ID Act is a law that was passed by Congress in 2005, a few years after the events of September 11, 2001.

The act was developed to enact the 9/11 Commission's recommendation that the federal government set standards for the issuance of

10 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1716 14th STREET, N.W., SUITE 200 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20009-4309 www.nealrgross.com sources of identification, such as driver's licenses and identification cards.

Standards established by the act are designed to improve the reliability of certain state-issued documents and to determine with greater accuracy whether individuals presenting a

driver's license or identification card for official purposes are who they say they are.

Now, we should also note that state-issued documents covered by the act and which we'll be discussing today also include those issued by Washington, D.C.

and other U.S.

territories outlined in the act. The REAL ID Act includes requirements associated with use of state-issued driver's licenses and IDs for official purposes.

These purposes include boarding federally regulated commercial aircraft, accessing federal facilities that perform ID checks for entrance and most pertinent to today's discussion, entering nuclear power plants.

With regards to these official purposes, the REAL ID Act places limitations on federal agencies, such that agencies will not be able to accept state-issued IDs for those purposes

11 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1716 14th STREET, N.W., SUITE 200 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20009-4309 www.nealrgross.com if that ID does not meet certain standards outlined in the act. The Department of Homeland Security has issued implementing regulations to carry out the requirements of the REAL ID Act and, in accordance with these regulations, the enforcement requirements of the REAL ID Act are set to go into effect on May 7th of next year.

So, what does this mean for nuclear power plants licensed by the NRC. Well, the NRC has outlined requirements for authorizing access to its licensed nuclear power plants in Title 10 of Code of Federal Regulations, 73.55 and 73.56.

For visitors at nuclear power plants, who will be escorted while in the protected area, the requirements of 73.55 explicitly require the confirmation of identity of each visitor through the physical presentation of a recognized photo identification card issued by a local, state or federal government agency. For individuals seeking access for unescorted access into a nuclear power plant, the requirements at 73.56 don't explicitly require the use of a photo ID as part of the process. However, the guidance in NEI 03-01, revision three, which provides the NRC endorsed

12 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1716 14th STREET, N.W., SUITE 200 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20009-4309 www.nealrgross.com methodology for meeting these access authorization requirements, does call for the use of a valid official photo identification as part of the process.

It should be noted, however, that while the NRC regulations and guidance do call for the use of photo ID as part of the process, the NRC requirements do not require that the photo ID used be a state-issued driver's license or ID card.

This means that while the REAL ID Act will restrict the NRC from allowing its licensees to accept noncompliant state-issued IDs and while the NRC expects that licensees will take proper action to ensure that any state-issued ID presented is indeed REAL ID compliant, the REAL ID Act does not restrict nuclear power plant licensees from being able to rely on other forms of identification for access to facilities.

Now, we'll talk a little more about other acceptable forms of identification a bit later in the presentation, but first, we want to talk a bit about what nuclear power plant operators can expect to see when it comes to REAL IDs that will be presented at their facilities.

13 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1716 14th STREET, N.W., SUITE 200 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20009-4309 www.nealrgross.com So, what does a REAL ID look like. As shown in the examples on this slide, the most notable feature of the READ ID is a symbol with a star, which as you can see here, will typically be located in the upper right corner of the driver's license or ID card and a rule of thumb for REAL IDs is that if it does not have a star, it's not a REAL ID.

Under the REAL ID

Act, enhanced driver's licenses are another class of ID that's considered to be acceptable for official purposes and enhanced driver's licenses are a type of ID that's issued by several states and will typically include either a US flag or a star, similar to REAL IDs. This is another form of acceptable state-issued ID that licensees can expect to see as we move forward with these requirements.

Another feature the licensees can expect to see is clear indication on noncompliant state-issued IDs that have been issued by a state after the requirements of the REAL ID Act have been implemented. Now, these IDs will typically include a field of text clearly indicating that the ID is not to be used for federal or official purposes and

14 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1716 14th STREET, N.W., SUITE 200 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20009-4309 www.nealrgross.com such IDs are not REAL ID compliant and cannot be used for the purposes of entering nuclear power plants.

It should be noted that legacy IDs, which would have been those issued before the REAL ID Act requirements went into effect are still in circulation, so not all noncompliant state IDs will contain the text that's shown in this example; however, if this text is present it can provide a very quick indication to licensee staff who are responsible for verifying the compliance of an ID being presented.

Now, as we discussed just a moment ago, the REAL ID Act requirements only apply to state-issued forms of identification. When card-based enforcement goes into effect, licensees can still continue to use other forms of approved photo identification for the purposes of identity verification.

Listed on this slide are several examples of alternative IDs that could still be accepted and these include passports, military ID cards, TWIC cards and permanent resident cards.

It should be noted that the list shown

15 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1716 14th STREET, N.W., SUITE 200 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20009-4309 www.nealrgross.com here is not intended to be all inclusive, we just wanted to demonstrate the variety of IDs that licensees will still be able to use and there may be other forms of government-issued ID that can still be accepted in accordance with NRC regulations and implementing guidance.

That was quite a bit of information in this presentation and we're going to be ready to move on to questions in just a minute, but before we move on, we did want to talk about what the next steps for the NRC are going to be following this meeting. We've been engaged with our stakeholders for a number of years on this topic and as we get closer to the currently established compliance deadline, we want to make sure that licensees have the clarity they need regarding the expectations.

Earlier this year, in July, the Nuclear Energy Institute formally requested that the NRC issue a

generic communication to address the agency's expectations. Our staff are currently planning to issue an information notice in the coming months addressed to our licensees.

This information notice will address some of the material that's discussed today as well

16 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1716 14th STREET, N.W., SUITE 200 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20009-4309 www.nealrgross.com as any other clarification needed based on ongoing developments.

We'd also encourage those in attendance here today to share with the NRC team and the DHS team in attendance any additional information needs that you may have as we get to your questions and comments.

We'll also note that moving forward the NRC will continue to work with our counterparts in DHS, George and his team, to ensure that our licensees have access to available information resources. I'd also note here that the DHS has already developed many useful resources which are available on their public website including a web page that contains an expansive list of frequently asked questions as well as materials that can be used as part of an information campaign to get the word out regarding the need for individuals to obtain REAL IDs. I would personally encourage anyone on the call that's curious to check out the DHS website because it has a lot of really, really helpful information.

One final note before we get to the question-and-answer period.

We did want to acknowledge the fact that DHS just a little over a

17 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1716 14th STREET, N.W., SUITE 200 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20009-4309 www.nealrgross.com month ago issued a proposed rule via the Federal Register that, if finalized, would allow federal agencies to implement the card-based enforcement requirements of the REAL ID Act using a phased enforcement plan.

Under this rule, federal agencies that are opting for the use of such a plan would need to make a determination that phased enforcement is appropriate based on the consideration of relevant factors including security, operational feasibility and public impact.

Agencies using a phased enforcement plan would also be required to achieve full enforcement of the requirements of the act no later than May 5, 2027, which is about two years after the current 2025 deadline.

The NRC is currently in the process of considering potential options for a

phased enforcement plan if that final rule is indeed issued by DHS.

Any potential NRC phased enforcement plan, if determined to be appropriate by the agency, would need to be coordinated with DHS and details on the plan would be made publicly available on the NRC's public website.

18 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1716 14th STREET, N.W., SUITE 200 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20009-4309 www.nealrgross.com With that, we're just about ready to move on to questions and comments, but before we do, I wanted to pause and check with our DHS counterparts, George, was there anything more than you wanted to add before we go to questions?

MR. PETERSEN: No, I'm good, thanks. I will standby for questions.

MR. VAZQUEZ: Great. With that, I want to thank, once again, everyone for your time and attention. We're looking forward to an engaging discussion today and I'm going to give the floor to Mark Resner, our Senior Security Specialist, who you saw just a few minutes ago, for access authorization.

He will be facilitating the discussion today.

As we get into the discussion, please remember that, as I mentioned earlier, we are transcribing this meeting, so as you begin to speak, we ask that you please clearly identify yourself so that we can take your name down for the transcription record. Also, as I mentioned before, we have muted all participants as they came in, so if you raise your hand and you are called on to make a comment, please make sure that you unmute

19 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1716 14th STREET, N.W., SUITE 200 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20009-4309 www.nealrgross.com yourself so that we'll be able to hear you on the call.

I'm checking really quick. We do have phone numbers that are muted so, Brian, we may want to unmute the phone lines at some point just to make sure that they don't have any questions because I don't think that they'll be able to unmute on the phone. With that, I'm going to stop sharing and hand things over to Mark. Mark, take it away for the Q&A.

MR. RESNER: Okay, I saw Johnny's hand.

Johnny Rogers, you had a question, Johnny?

MR. ROGERS: Yeah, Mark, thank you. I was going to start with comments if that's okay and then there are a few questions we'd like to offer.

MR. RESNER: Sure.

MR. ROGERS: Well, good afternoon, everyone. My name is Johnny Rogers. I'm a technical advisor with NEI. NEI, on behalf of its members, appreciates the opportunity to offer some comments on the topic of REAL ID.

Thanks to the NRC for organizing the meeting and for members of the Department of Homeland Security for joining today. One of our

20 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1716 14th STREET, N.W., SUITE 200 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20009-4309 www.nealrgross.com principal concerns with REAL ID Act is the impact on our work force. Our industry outages would be heavily impacted by this rule. Outages are major maintenance and refueling activities where thousands of

people, many contractors, simultaneously are granted access at concurrent outages.

We need to in process these contractors quickly so that work may be completed in a timely fashion and our nuclear units are returned to service as speedily as possible. May is the middle of the spring outage season when we see large numbers of contract personnel processing. Our members are very concerned over the May 7, 2025, enforcement deadline.

The notice of the proposed rulemaking indicates that approximately 44 percent of IDs are noncompliant. We believe the 44 percent could have a significant impact on half of the workforce we may depend on and we're further concerned that the rate of adoption will not substantially improve over the coming months. We're concerned that REAL ID Act card-based enforcement will add a

significant hurdle in bringing these critical

21 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1716 14th STREET, N.W., SUITE 200 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20009-4309 www.nealrgross.com workers into our plants.

Impacts could include lengthening of outages or delay completing work. Keeping these large generators offline could also impact the stability of the grid. We support DHS' notice of proposed rulemaking on phased enforcement. NEI submitted comments on behalf of our members. We encourage DHS to issue the final rule and to do so quickly.

We believe phased enforcement does not represent a risk for the nuclear setting for the following reasons. New workers applying for access to our nuclear facilities undergo a comprehensive regulatory-driven clearance process. The process includes the following checks: Criminal history,

credit, employment, references, education, psychological inventory and validation of true identity.

Methods to confirm identity include cross checks with reviews of credit and criminal history among other background elements. We also confirm the non-immigration status as applicable.

Our sites use the federal SAVE database or they manually confirm immigration documents confirming

22 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1716 14th STREET, N.W., SUITE 200 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20009-4309 www.nealrgross.com identity. Personnel that pass this detailed review are subject to continual behavior observation and drug screening. Where workers have breaks in their access and travel to other sites, the appropriate background screening elements are applied, given their period of time from their last access.

In every situation where workers are entering a nuclear facility, under any condition, true identity is validated in addition to and the appropriate background screening elements applied.

Where visitors are concerned, visitors are vetted against a nuclear database that ensures they have no derogatory case history in the nuclear industry.

All visitors are escorted by plant personnel.

We believe the amount of rigor in the nuclear vetting process considerably mitigates risk.

Additional time before card-based enforcement provides us the opportunity to better socialize the REAL ID message among workers who are not fully informed concerning its impact on nuclear facilities.

I'd like to thank everyone for the opportunity to present these comments. We do have additional questions, but I'll pause here and defer

23 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1716 14th STREET, N.W., SUITE 200 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20009-4309 www.nealrgross.com to the meeting organizer in case there are other discussions or questions thus far. I'll continue with questions when recognized to do so. Mark, back to you.

MR. RESNER: Johnny, thank you for your comments. You know, some comments have already previously been made to DHS about the impact on the nuclear facilities and the various workers that would need access to continue working. Since the REAL ID Act specifically included access to nuclear facilities, as an example, for official purposes, DHS cannot simply exempt nuclear power plants from the scope of the rule. DHS agrees that the access authorization program supervised by

NRC, may provide sufficient safeguards concerning access to the nuclear facilities.

The NRC supervised programs may set forth alternative procedures or acceptable forms of identification for persons seeking access to a nuclear facility; however, if an individual is presenting a

driver's license or state-issued identification card, it must be REAL ID compliant pursuant to the REAL ID Act.

The phased enforcement approach is

24 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1716 14th STREET, N.W., SUITE 200 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20009-4309 www.nealrgross.com certainly under consideration by the NRC at this time and we are looking at that with due diligence to hopefully move forward with that, but it's under consideration.

MR. VAZQUEZ: Hey, Mark, if I may add in there.

MR. RESNER: Sure.

MR. VAZQUEZ: Appreciate that response.

Johnny, appreciate your comments and, as Mark said, we'll be taking those into consideration as we move forward with considerations. One thing that we did want to reiterate and I think I mentioned this during the presentation, is that the considerations regarding the potential for phased enforcement plans, those are still in proposed rule form.

At this point, and we're not going to be able to make any solid commitments at this meeting, but the purpose of this meeting is to solicit input from the stakeholders and make sure that we're considering the right things, as we consider that aspect of it as well as other aspects and we really do appreciate those comments today.

Thank you, Johnny, for sharing the perspectives on behalf of the Nuclear Energy Institute.

25 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1716 14th STREET, N.W., SUITE 200 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20009-4309 www.nealrgross.com I

also did want to pause there.

George, I know that -- I believe that this is on the Federal Register, there were comments that were received of a similar nature from NEI as part of that proposed rulemaking and Johnny spoke to a lot of the stats and work that might tie into the TSA side of things, so I wanted to pause there and just ask, George, did you have anything else that you wanted to add in response to the comments from Nuclear Energy Institute before we move on to other comments and questions?

MR. PETERSEN: Hi. So, I can't comment on the comments that were provided in response to the rule because it would be in violation of the APA, but I can speak in general terms about what we had proposed in the rule is that we understand that there could be a significant number of people that may not have a REAL ID or alternate acceptable ID.

Therefore, we propose that a federal agency, if they feel for the considerations of security operations and the ability for individuals to access secure

services, that they may not otherwise, the agency could propose a

phased enforcement plan that would be coordinated with the

26 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1716 14th STREET, N.W., SUITE 200 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20009-4309 www.nealrgross.com Department.

I mean that was the reason that we proposed it, is there is a significant number. I have some additional data, some updated data on the numbers. I heard 44 percent, it's actually up to 59 percent. We have about maybe 120 million out of the 290 million state-issued driver's licenses and ID cards that are still not REAL ID. About 38 percent or about 111 million are noncompliant and another 3 percent of them, which is about 9 million, are what we call legacy. They just haven't been converted yet.

The other thing is that we also have what we call a survey that we do every two months.

We found out that of the individuals that plan on coming to TSA, 92 percent have an alternate form of acceptable ID; they either have a REAL ID or an alternate acceptable form. We're really looking at around between 8 to 10 percent, like right now, that would have an issue about perhaps boarding federally regulated aircraft.

The numbers are not that dire, but they would be very challenging if you're in some parts of the country because we still have one state

27 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1716 14th STREET, N.W., SUITE 200 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20009-4309 www.nealrgross.com that's at 20 percent, that state conveniently is also the highest

state, it has the highest percentage of passports. Then, we have another 30 states are below 60 percent.

The good thing about it is that a lot of people do not get the REAL IDs because they don't think that they need access to federal facilities or they don't plan on flying. It's a conscious decision on them. There also was a COVID pandemic and a lot of people renewed licenses because the DMVs were closed. It was very challenging to get in there and some people they just didn't want to go into a public place during the COVID pandemic and they elected to have their licenses mailed to their homes. Of course, those are noncompliant licenses that were mailed and they would have to go back.

The one good thing that we have going for us is that all 56 states fully support implementation of REAL ID starting in

2025, literally 20 years after Congress passed the original act and another five years after Congress passed an additional act, called the REAL ID Modernization Act. There's a commitment from the

28 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1716 14th STREET, N.W., SUITE 200 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20009-4309 www.nealrgross.com states and the federal government to carry out the mandate that was issued to us by the Congress and to begin implementation of REAL ID enforcement on May 7.

However, we do understand that there will be a period of time in which people will be like, are you serious? I really have to get a REAL ID? Yeah, yes, you need to get a REAL ID. We're going to give you a short period of time to get it and that's what this rule would authorize.

What we would say is we're never going to implement REAL ID until we implement REAL ID period. Any further extensions would have been met with the states would've said, well, you don't need REAL ID. The population would have said, well, we don't need REAL ID. REAL ID is never going to go.

It will be enforced and as a result, we do understand that there will be, as a result of having 56 different states all in various stages of implementation. Some of it, not all their fault.

We will have the opportunity for agencies that are particularly impacted by this to have the opportunity to do a phased approach.

I did want to address one other thing.

29 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1716 14th STREET, N.W., SUITE 200 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20009-4309 www.nealrgross.com I heard a glowing comment on, like, we have a very sufficient background check and I just want to --

do we have a hot mic? Just to let you know, somebody's got a hot mic. It's not the background check, I mean we're not concerned about the background check, the purpose of the presentation of the identification card is the high level of identity assurance that the individual presented in front of you is who that person says they are.

That's why Congress passed the REAL ID Act to improve the level of identity assurance for the most predominant type of ID that exists in the United States, which is a state-issued driver's license or ID card. There are 293 million in circulation right now. It is the most predominant.

We would like REAL ID implemented because as intended by the 9/11 Commission, REAL IDs have higher levels of documentation, identity assurance at presentation.

The documents themselves undergo clarification, this is an authentic document, that you are who you say you are. The back-end processes are much more secure.

The data is protected better and what we want to do is continue to improve the security aspects of REAL

30 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1716 14th STREET, N.W., SUITE 200 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20009-4309 www.nealrgross.com ID and carry out the intention of the 9/11 Commission, which is to protect our citizens and our country from terrorists or other type of attacks.

Right now, one of the largest things that is happening right now is identity fraud and we hope that as TSA has taken over this program and we can devote the resources that are necessary for such a major program, we can continue to improve the identity assurance of REAL ID and help our citizens beyond the official uses that are presented by the law.

MR. RESNER: All right.

MR.

VAZQUEZ:

Yes, thanks a

lot, George. We really appreciate those comments and also some of those of those updates. Yeah, I think that you made a good point there that by the fact that entrance to nuclear power plants was called out explicitly in the REAL ID Act. I mean there's a unique set of security circumstances to consider when we're talking about our licensees and as reflected in the NRC's policy, regulations, the guidance that's been endorsed, we do see the check of a valid ID or recognized ID for visitors as

31 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1716 14th STREET, N.W., SUITE 200 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20009-4309 www.nealrgross.com being a very important part of the process and, I mean that emphasizes the importance here.

With that being

said, I

mean definitely, once again, appreciate the comments from NEI on this. We'll be taking those into consideration. I will also encourage folks, once again, as I mentioned during the presentation, George provided a lot of great information, there's a lot of great information on the DHS public website.

Those campaign toolkits that I

mentioned, they can provide flyers, informational materials, so as our licensees are communicating with their personnel, contractor staff that may be coming on site in the near future. There are a lot of resources to kind of proactively get out there, get the word out, encourage folks over the coming, I think we've got just a little over six months on this. I do encourage folks to get out there and go get their REAL IDs. Do look for that information and also I'm sure that George and his team would be happy to help in any way they can of course. We're here to share if there is any additional information that's needed.

32 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1716 14th STREET, N.W., SUITE 200 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20009-4309 www.nealrgross.com (Simultaneous speaking.)

MR. PETERSEN: Absolutely. We have professionally designed, what we call, a public engagement collateral website, print, video. I'd be happy if anybody thinks we need some help, we want to put up some signs. We want to put some stuff on. We have a video that can play. We have radio spots. We can put it on your website. You can put it your social media.

It's all professionally designed.

It's available free, you just go to tsa.gov/realid. It'll say collateral and you'll be able to pull it down. If anybody needs assistance with like, hey, how do I get the word out? We have a person who's a professional in marketing that could assist you.

We're here to ease the transition to what we hope to be is a more secure identity assurance environment. We understand that there's going to be a transition and we want to ensure that the transition is common sense, practical, but at the same time is limited in its length. One of the other reasons that we did this is we expect that there could be, in low compliance rate states, a

33 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1716 14th STREET, N.W., SUITE 200 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20009-4309 www.nealrgross.com backlog. There are people that would legitimately apply for a REAL ID and the state may not get it to them in the original sort of time that they would expect and there would be delays. We also want to work through that period of time, too.

We do want to assure you, states, industry, the travel industry, airlines, airports have fully supported implementing REAL ID starting enforcement and moving to this higher level of identity assurances as originally intended by Congress over 20 years ago.

MR. VAZQUEZ: All right, thank you so much, George. Really appreciate it. All right, Mark, I'll hand it back to you to keep us moving.

MR. RESNER: Any additional questions?

MR. ZALESKI: Mark, I don't see any hands raised so I'll turn it back to Johnny, who indicated he had additional comments to offer or questions.

MR. ROGERS: Thank you, Brian. I appreciate the comments of Mr. Petersen. Thank you for clarifying some issues. We are very interested in the communication piece. I think one salient point that I don't want to get missed on this call

34 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1716 14th STREET, N.W., SUITE 200 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20009-4309 www.nealrgross.com is that we have not had the time to propagate this message and I hear the --

MR. RESNER: Johnny, you --

MR. PETERSEN: I think you got muted there, Mr. Rogers, and please call me George because, you know, my days in the Navy are over, so I don't go by Mr. Petersen anymore.

(Laughter.)

MR.

ROGERS:

Thank you for

that, George. I really do appreciate the comments and I'm glad to hear that there are resources out there in terms of videos and other flyers and printed material that we can use. Communication is really an important aspect of this, I think it had a lot to do with why our comments were sent on the phased implementation approach.

As I was trying to indicate, we havent had the opportunity to propagate this message.

Remember, our participants, our contractors come to our sites at select times. They're not there all the time. They're not like proprietary employees.

They show up for our outages. They work our outages. They go to the next outage and then outage season ends. So, we have not had the time

35 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1716 14th STREET, N.W., SUITE 200 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20009-4309 www.nealrgross.com to propagate this. I heard the 2025 date, but in the nuclear setting, we were operating on guidance that we thought may take us in a different direction with regard to compliance with REAL ID.

This message has not been propagated the way we would like it to be, so I'll offer that. I heard the comment about security and so what I'll offer there is that while our background screening is robust and we put a lot of time, energy and effort into ensuring it's one of the best in the country.

I'm proud of our background screeners and what we do and how we do it.

We are ultimately concerned about are the same things George is concerned about. Proving people are who they say they are and that's why I offered the other elements. We don't just use background documents. We cross check with other processes to ensure all of that matches. I think that's an important component. The person coming through TSA that shows the card, no one knows anything about this person other than the card they're handling. That's not true in the nuclear access process.

We have detailed information and we

36 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1716 14th STREET, N.W., SUITE 200 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20009-4309 www.nealrgross.com work hard to develop it. We have a lot of voluminous information on an individual and so we've gone to the nth degree to prove they are who they say they are, not to undermine the process that we're talking about for REAL ID. The communication is the most salient piece here and we think we would benefit from the phased approach.

It would give us time to propagate the message the way we feel it should be propagated.

I do have some questions and I would encourage my industry counterparts to help me with any of the questions that they may have in case I don't ask them. Feel free, industry counterparts, to ask your questions following if I didn't cover it.

All of the enhanced IDs are marked the same

way, I

saw the graphic in the NRC presentation. Is there anything else we should know about the enhanced driver's licenses and presumably other potential future compliant IDs.

Up until now, we haven't had a lot of information and I appreciate what we saw. We were concerned about identity and identifying an enhanced driver's license and I saw it clearly marked. Is there

37 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1716 14th STREET, N.W., SUITE 200 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20009-4309 www.nealrgross.com anything else we need to know about that?

MR. PETERSEN: There's only a few states that issue them, I think it's like five, like New York, Minnesota, Washington. I don't have the exact list in my mind. I can provide them, but not only do they have the flag, but they have an RFID chip in them and they are considered REAL ID compliant because they are a state-issued driver's license that meets all the requirements in a REAL ID. They're not marked as REAL ID because they're issued under Witte, but there are some states.

There are two states that actually do put a star on their EDL. Then, there's one state, the state of Washington, does not issue a REAL ID, but says, look, our EDL is REAL ID compliant. If somebody wants a REAL ID they can get our EDL.

It's either going to be REAL ID with a star enhanced driver's license, and like I said, two states actually put a star on their EDL, in addition to issuing a REAL ID.

I would like to say though, Mr. Rogers, that if you have alternate identification processes and you're not relying solely on somebody like, oh, here this is my driver's license. If you just look

38 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1716 14th STREET, N.W., SUITE 200 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20009-4309 www.nealrgross.com at the driver's license and they go and you have to validate from their driver's license against something else and that's the only thing you're using, that's going to be a really tough use case to avoid a round dot.

If they use an alternate form of ID where they present a driver's license but then you put their face against something that's already in the system, then you're using what we would call an alternate identity verification process. I don't know what it is, right, I'm just talking. So every agency has the authority to define the list of acceptable IDs and the ID processes that it uses, the only time really that REAL ID would become a problem is if that is the very sole, nothing else is used to verify this individual's identity.

So, at TSA that is the sole document.

Someone would come up to a checkpoint, they give their REAL ID. It has the biographic data on there which is supposed to match the information that we check against for the flight. Does this person have a ticket? This is their first name, last name, date of birth, sex which is entered when you buy your

ticket, right.

We have to match

39 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1716 14th STREET, N.W., SUITE 200 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20009-4309 www.nealrgross.com biographic data from that ID and then we match the picture from the ID with the individual that's in front of us. It's a sole source, right. In that particular case, REAL ID if somebody presents a state-issued driver's license, we're sort of like we don't have an alternate form. If they bring another form of ID that is acceptable, such as a passport or maybe USCIS card, or there are other types of acceptable IDs, then REAL ID wouldn't apply, because they're using another type of ID.

It's not a state-issued driver's license or ID card.

The kind of things to figure out when you're thinking about this and you want to make recommendations is, is the driver's license the very document, no other kind of checks that are involved in there. Then it's a REAL ID official use case, okay, just for that.

The other thing is that we have a public engagement campaign. We're going to have radio and television ads starting in the winter and spring. Right now, they're on what we call search engines. I just want to let you know we are investing in a

national public advertising

40 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1716 14th STREET, N.W., SUITE 200 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20009-4309 www.nealrgross.com campaign.

We also have states that are investing in public advertising campaigns. We also have the travel industry leveraging their B2C channels, so if any of your people fly or go to airports, United just sent a message to 5.2 million of their members, their mileage members, all about REAL ID and this is coming up and things like that so we have a lot of help in which people are trying to get the word out to the public. But I'm in agreement with you, the public is the very last --

we have states, we have industries, we have airports, we've got the federal agencies because we've been meeting with the federal agencies for what, Justin, over the last year maybe two years, to help get prepared for this.

We know that's going to be a challenge and that's why we want to help you in any way possible to get the word out and to give what you all believe is a

common

sense, reasonable opportunity for individuals to get a REAL ID if they need it, for you to get the word out to your folks. We're here to support you in any way possible.

41 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1716 14th STREET, N.W., SUITE 200 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20009-4309 www.nealrgross.com We want to implement REAL ID and you can leverage a phased approach through May of 2027, but just remember it is enforcement. We are enforcing and enforcement starts on May 7 and you can stop that phased approach any time prior to May 2027. We would like to do that obviously before May 2027, but it's sort of up to you. We're leaving it up to that federal agency to make that call. That's between you and the NRC as far as how that will work out, but we're just here to support you. We appreciate any efforts there are to get the word out.

If anybody wants, I can actually give you a sample of the collateral that's on the website if anybody wants to see it now.

MR. VAZQUEZ: I think we'll have some time at the end to do that. I know that Johnny had some other questions from the organizations, so I want to make sure we have time to get to those.

MR. PETERSEN: Sure.

MR. VAZQUEZ: Thanks, George, that was really great information.

MR. PETERSEN: I did put them in the chat, though, for you, okay?

42 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1716 14th STREET, N.W., SUITE 200 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20009-4309 www.nealrgross.com MR. VAZQUEZ: Oh, excellent. Thank you.

MR.

ROGERS:

Thank you for

that, George. Much appreciated. Along the lines of communication, this is more for the NRC, when and how will the NRC notify nuclear power reactors of agency's expectations for nuclear power plant licensees?

MR. RESNER: Johnny, we're in the process right now developing an information notice that will go out to all of the licensees.

MR. ROGERS: Is there is an expected timeline, Mark?

MR. VAZQUEZ: We've got a working draft. I mean there may be some updates to it based on conversations today and also as we kind of are anticipating the date if the proposed rules are going to final, we're considering whether or not the timing should be coordinated with that. If there is going to be any communication about whether or not the NRC is going to move forward with a phased enforcement plan.

We can also have some discussions and, Johnny, if you've got some perspectives now on if

43 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1716 14th STREET, N.W., SUITE 200 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20009-4309 www.nealrgross.com something more immediate is needed. I mean maybe limited information or if there would be a

preference among the industry for communication when we have kind of more complete information to provide, but yeah, it can be a couple of months or it could be closer to the implementation date if more complete information will be required. But, we're ready to move pretty quickly on this, I can provide that assurance.

MR.

ROGERS:

Thank you for

that, Justin. The only reason I raised that in terms of communication is for the reasons we've already talked about. Here we are right in the face of November, we're closing in on the end of the year.

You've got vacations, Christmas, Thanksgiving and what have you, then around the corner 2025 is upon us. We've already identified that communication is one of the weaknesses right now in terms of informing people, so the sooner the better, I guess is what I'm trying to say.

MR. VAZQUEZ: All right, all right noted, Johnny, thank you.

MR. ROGERS: Next question, if the REAL ID Act impacts entry into NRC facilities, and we're

44 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1716 14th STREET, N.W., SUITE 200 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20009-4309 www.nealrgross.com talking headquarters buildings or regional offices or what have you, how and when will the NRC inform the public? Will the NRC put a notice or other information on their website informing the public?

MR. RESNER: Johnny, the NRC Office of Administration, the Facility Security Section, has actually been meeting with the interagency working group on that and, yes, they will be putting something out on the website to the effect of what will be required or how they're going to operate under the REAL ID Act.

MR. ROGERS: Okay, thank you.

MR. RESNER: You're welcome.

MR.

ROGERS:

In terms of implementation, for individuals that currently holding unescorted access and hold a clearance at our facilities, must we verify that they have a REAL ID Act compliant identification on or before May 7? We're talking about people who hold active clearances now. Do we have to go back and verify?

MR. RESNER: No, Johnny, that's not the case. It will not be a retrospective look. The individual has been granted UA or UAA and has maintained that access unless it's required in your

45 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1716 14th STREET, N.W., SUITE 200 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20009-4309 www.nealrgross.com processes to look at an ID, there will be no retrospective look as far as the REAL ID.

MR. ROGERS: Well, that's a nice segue.

Thank you, Mark. That's a nice segue to the next question. Would they need REAL ID at their next reinvestigation or we might even consider if they're going from site to site and have UAA terminated and then it's reinstated. The best example I can use is well, let's stick with reinvestigation and I'll ask the next question.

So, with respect to reinvestigation, ID is required but they can use their station badge.

Is that still going to be the case? Since we've already gone through the trouble and trouble is the wrong word, we've gone through the process of validating and verifying who they are, so these are existing plant employees being reinvestigated.

Would we be required to have a REAL ID for them or would they would be required to have it or could we use their station badge as we currently do?

MR. RESNER: If it's under three year and five year reinvestigations, no we're not going to do a retrospect as long as they have maintained access. If there was a break and it's not included

46 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1716 14th STREET, N.W., SUITE 200 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20009-4309 www.nealrgross.com in your procedures, then it's required to present a state-issued ID, there will not be a retrospective look at that. If there's a break in service, you would follow your normal procedures for reprocessing or reinvestigations.

MR. ROGERS: Mark, that's a good segue to the next aspect or the next question, so --

MR. VAZQUEZ: If I may, Johnny --

(Simultaneous speaking.)

MR. ROGERS: Go ahead, Justin, go ahead.

MR. VAZQUEZ: Mark just had a really important point there that I just want to emphasize and that is the NRC has explicit requirements in our regulations and our guidance as to where ID is necessary in the process. Beyond that, if there are self-administered processes by fleets or particular facilities that do call for the use of ID as part of the access authorization or entry

process, then in accordance with the site's procedures, because it is a photo ID that's being used, if it's a state-issued ID, the REAL ID compliance requirements would go into effect.

In the example that you just provided,

47 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1716 14th STREET, N.W., SUITE 200 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20009-4309 www.nealrgross.com Johnny, where a site badge is being used as part of that process to confirm the identity of an individual, that badge is approved in accordance with NRC requirements and it would meet the expectations of the NRC for compliance, so just wanted to emphasize that. The real key is if it's part of the licensee's process that is where the requirements could potentially kick in if it's a state ID that's being used.

MR. ROGERS: Okay, thank you. I think you've answered the next question, Mark, in your last answer, but just for clarity's sake, let's assume this a scenario-based question. So, someone let's say in April 2025 is holding current access during an outage with their noncompliant identification.

They subsequently travel to another site, May 8, and they present themselves as a candidate having just held access at the previous site, say in April. They would be required to have a REAL ID, correct?

MR. RESNER: Again, not unless it's in the procedures, your licensee procedures, that may require that, but no, once they've been granted and have maintained access, no, there will not be a

48 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1716 14th STREET, N.W., SUITE 200 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20009-4309 www.nealrgross.com retrospective look.

MR. ROGERS: All right, so, Mark, that's an important distinction because someone traversing or entering the next site, may be holding current access or within five days. Let me say it this way, they're holding current access so they're current and then they arrive at the next site, but in my scenario, I was referring to a break in access, where they just held clearance and they're entering the next facility. Under that scenario, because there was a break, you're saying they would need a REAL ID compliant ID, but not if they're holding current access?

MR. RESNER: That's correct.

MR.

ROGERS:

Okay.

There's a

distinction there in the level of access. I wanted to make sure that was correct.

MR. VAZQUEZ: Yeah, and again, I'll reiterate the same point that I made a minute ago, which is that if it's part of the process, a photo ID is required and it's a state-issued ID, even if it's an instance where they don't have another physical ID and they're presenting a state-issued ID, if that is going to be the ID that is relied

49 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1716 14th STREET, N.W., SUITE 200 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20009-4309 www.nealrgross.com upon for the process administered by the licensee, the REAL ID requirements are in effect.

MR.

ROGERS:

Understand.

In Pennsylvania, REAL ID Act compliant IDs are optional due to state constitutional restrictions I'm told. I haven't independently verified this, but that's what I'm told. If a PA resident, who held UAA prior to May 7 will not obtain a compliant ID, are licensees required to revoke unescorted access?

MR. RESNER: No, again Johnny, I think that goes back to the retrospective look. If they've maintained access, there would not be a need unless, again, like Justin has reinforced there, unless in your licensee's plant procedure they are required to, but no, it sounds like in that scenario, they would have maintained it so there would not be a need for the REAL ID.

MR. ROGERS: Okay. If an employee loses their badge or needs to be re-enrolled in biometrics, we pull their access file to verify their identity. Will this still be acceptable, and this may go back to your answer, so if I'm repeating myself, I'm just making sure I'm covering

50 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1716 14th STREET, N.W., SUITE 200 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20009-4309 www.nealrgross.com all my bases with respect to getting these questions answered?

MR. RESNER: Please do.

MR.

ROGERS:

Will this still be acceptable if they don't have REAL ID Act compliant ID currently on file, in their file history?

MR. RESNER: No, again, if they've maintained

access, there would not be a

requirement, but --

MR. ROGERS: Okay.

MR. RESNER: If there was a break in service, again as I've said previously.

MR.

ROGERS:

Yeah, we've already answered that. I wanted to make sure that was covered though. Next question, if you need to get your hand enrolled or re-enrolled, will you have to present a REAL ID Act compliant ID to security? I think the answer is no because they're holding current access, they're just getting their hand enrolled. Is that accurate?

MR. RESNER: That's correct, Johnny, and I would assume they would have a badge.

MR. ROGERS: Yes.

MR. RESNER: Yeah.

51 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1716 14th STREET, N.W., SUITE 200 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20009-4309 www.nealrgross.com MR. ROGERS: Very good. If the security system were to be nonfunctional, would you have to present a REAL ID Act compliant ID and I've got a note in parentheses, two forms of ID are required to enter a vital area through security.

So, if the --

(Simultaneous speaking.)

MR. RESNER: Go ahead, Johnny, I'm sorry. Go ahead.

MR. ROGERS: Well, I was just trying to clarify that question. If the security system were to be nonfunctional, so we're doing manual entry, I think the question is would you have to present a REAL ID Act compliant ID to get (Simultaneous speaking.)

MR. ROGERS: Go ahead.

MR. RESNER: I'm sorry, I didn't want to talk over you. Go ahead, Johnny.

MR. ROGERS: No, no, no, I was trying to clarify what I was saying, but go ahead.

MR. RESNER: If the individual is

badged, which means they've been through the process, I don't see a requirement under REAL ID for that.

52 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1716 14th STREET, N.W., SUITE 200 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20009-4309 www.nealrgross.com MR. ROGERS: Gotcha.

MR. RESNER: As long as they're meeting the vital area access requirements that are standard.

MR.

ROGERS:

Yeah, I

think these questions were formed before we got some clarity on holding current access. You know, the break in access sort of makes sense, but there are a lot of scenarios where we're looking at ID, sometimes the badge, and we were looking for clarity on whether that was still acceptable and I think I'm hearing it is.

MR. VAZQUEZ: Yeah, and hey, Johnny, we're getting into a little bit of a nuanced point here. I'd raised my hand and I also saw that our legal counsel, Jim, has raised his hand. So, Jim, I'm going to give you a chance if you've got any insights and I might have an insight as well, but, Jim, can you go ahead and come off mute and let us know if you have any thoughts?

MR. MALTESE: Yeah, we may need to discuss this and provide some additional clarity, but it sounded, Johnny, like you were talking about a situation where the site procedures would require

53 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1716 14th STREET, N.W., SUITE 200 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20009-4309 www.nealrgross.com the presentation of two IDs?

MR.

ROGERS:

Well, that's not specifically called out in the

question, but perhaps that's the issue, yes.

MR.

MALTESE:

Okay, I

think the question would be then if the site is asking for two forms of ID and one of the IDs presented is a state-issued driver's license or ID that is not REAL ID compliant, then the REAL ID Act would require a REAL ID compliant ID for entering or accessing a nuclear power plant.

So, I'm not giving you a definitive answer, I think we might have to consider that.

But I think that's sort of the key restriction as to whether -- you know, there are many forms of IDs, passports, visas, etc., that don't implicate the REAL ID requirement, but the key is if an individual is presenting a state-issued driver's license or ID for the purpose of access then after the compliance date would need to be REAL ID compliant.

MR. ROGERS: So, there are two types of access. There's access into the protected area and then there's vital area access. I think this

54 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1716 14th STREET, N.W., SUITE 200 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20009-4309 www.nealrgross.com question was specific to vital area access, but you raised a good point. If they're holding current access and the security system is just not functional, but they have a station badge and they've been cleared and they hold an active clearance, I guess I would just ask the question, why would they need a REAL ID if we're accepting their badge as a

photo identification for reinvestigations or other things? Why would they need a REAL ID if they're holding current access and they have an active clearance? Maybe it's something we can't solve here and we just need to discuss offline.

MR. VAZQUEZ: Yeah, I think this is something that's going to warrant additional discussion because, again, we're getting into a nuance here where we get into use of accessing a nuclear power plant, accessing a vital area.

MR. ROGERS: Right, right.

MR.

VAZQUEZ:

Reading into some nomenclature that we'll need to consult with our legal experts on this, but it's an important point.

I've taken a note that we're going to be looking into this and we'll find the proper avenue to

55 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1716 14th STREET, N.W., SUITE 200 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20009-4309 www.nealrgross.com communicate an answer to this particular area.

I do want to pause there, Johnny, I really appreciate these questions. This is a very great discussion. We are at 4:03, so we've got less than half an hour in the meeting. I did see another hand go up and also I did want to check with folks that are on the phone, but don't have the ability to unmute themselves. We're going to pause really quick and, Andrew Anderson, you've got a hand raised. We're going to take your question and then, Brian, if you can after that go to the phone lines and we can check with the people that are calling in.

MR. ZALESKI: Yeah, I can unmute the three individuals that have called in when you give me the green light to do that.

MR. VAZQUEZ: Okay, great. Let's start with Andrew. Andrew?

MR. ANDERSON: Great, thanks. Andy Anderson, Senior Manager Corporate Security for Constellation, Access Authorization and Fitness for Duty. It's not so much of a question, it's just a clarifying statement to make sure I understand the action, as I believe there is some confusion on

56 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1716 14th STREET, N.W., SUITE 200 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20009-4309 www.nealrgross.com what I'm hearing anyway.

To be clear, the NRC is going to take back the question, because I'm hearing it in two different forms

here, i.e.,

the re-enrollment process. I'm hearing in one sentence that if they're maintaining access, then REAL ID wouldn't be required but, Justin, I think I heard you correctly, since a form of ID would be required in our process and procedures internally and/or as per regulation, even though they're maintaining, it must be REAL ID compliant. Is that what you're bringing back to counsel for clarification?

MR. VAZQUEZ: I think that the point that we're bringing back for clarification is the one about the instance where two IDs are used, one of them would be a site badge and the other one might be a state-issued ID. That's the one that we're taking back.

If I'm not mistaken, the other item you raised regarding reinvestigation purposes, that's one where if the site procedures allow for the use of a site badge as a recognized ID as part of that process. In that case, it wouldn't be a state-issued ID that's being used necessarily, so it

57 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1716 14th STREET, N.W., SUITE 200 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20009-4309 www.nealrgross.com wouldn't apply.

But

again, I'm going to reemphasize the point that I made earlier which I think should be probably a key takeaway from this.

If at any point in the access authorization process or the reinvestigation process, a state-issued ID is being relied upon for the purposes of obtaining or maintaining access to a nuclear power plant, at that point, based on the letter of the REAL ID Act, the NRC would not be able to allow the use of that noncompliant state ID for the purposes of accessing a plant, that's part of the process.

MR. ANDERSON: And, sir, that is if they're even maintaining is what I'm hearing, correct? Maintaining unescorted access at that period in time, that's what I'm hearing here.

MR. VAZQUEZ: If the state-issued ID is being used as part of the process then it would be being used for the purpose of entering nuclear power plants and the requirements of the ID would go into effect. I'll pause there.

Jim, if there's any clarification

there, but

yeah, we've had some internal discussions about this question because it was one that we were wondering about as well. I do see

58 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1716 14th STREET, N.W., SUITE 200 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20009-4309 www.nealrgross.com Norman has a hand raised, so I want to go to Norm.

Norm is another one of our legal counsels.

MR. ST. AMOUR: Yes, Justin, I think Andrew is asking a very good question. I think we will take this back for further discussion. Those two points, I think, do deserve us giving it further discussion internally and then communicating back in an accepted means, both to Johnny and to Mr. Anderson.

MR. VAZQUEZ: Yes, I'll take those for further follow up. Thanks, Mark. I did say that we'd go to folks on the line. I did see that Mr.

Matt Deignan, forgive me if I'm mispronouncing that, has raised his hand, but, yeah, Brian, if you can unmute the phones.

MR. ZALESKI: Sure and I also saw that our court reporter said if you hit star-6 on your phone, that might unmute you as well, but I'm going to unmute you right now. There's a 315 and a 479 and a 908 area code, I'm now unmuting. Just a second. Okay, one of those three lines is our court reporter, okay, so there's only two. Trying to figure out how to do this. I can mute it, but it's not allowing me to unmute it.

59 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1716 14th STREET, N.W., SUITE 200 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20009-4309 www.nealrgross.com (Laughter.)

MR. VAZQUEZ: Let me see if I can do it on my side.

MR. ZALESKI: Yes, and also I assume if you're calling in, you might not have access to the Teams, you could drop in the chat if you have a question.

MR. VAZQUEZ: Actually, I can't unmute either, so we'll say for those that are on the line, I think if you try the star-6 option that should be available to you and in the meantime, we'll go to Mr. Deignan.

MR. DEIGNAN: How you doing? Matthew Deignan, Superintendent of Security Programs with Entergy. One of my questions is, we were talking about visitor processes, not only just access authorization, but also as part of our visitor process. We have some of the states that Entergy oversees that are compliant with a mobile driver's license.

So, for a visitor process, I would like to see if there's any guidance on if a visitor comes in to provide, we'll say the LA Wallet as an example, for a driver's license, is that an

60 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1716 14th STREET, N.W., SUITE 200 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20009-4309 www.nealrgross.com acceptable means? Because that is compliant with the REAL ID, if you've just taken a picture of a driver's license, and should that be more put into a procedure on our end or is there just going to be some guidance on mobile driver's licenses as we are getting more and more tech savvy? I believe there are 14 states that use that mobile driver's licenses.

MR. RESNER: Yeah, thank you, Matthew, for the question. Yeah, DHS has looked at that.

They issued a proposed rule and collectively refer to the mobile driver's license. However, in that rule, the mobile driver's licenses have to be approved, the states have to be approved, by DHS before they're acceptable. In addition, of course, you would have to have a reader to use those.

It says, on October 25, 2024, DHS published the final rule. It was titled, Minimum Standards for Driver's Licenses and Identification Cards Acceptable by Federal Agencies for Official Purposes; Waiver for Mobile Driver's Licenses and if you're looking for a resource to refer to, it's 89 Federal Register 85340.

MR. ZALESKI: Mark, I just dropped a

61 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1716 14th STREET, N.W., SUITE 200 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20009-4309 www.nealrgross.com link to that Federal Register notice in the chat if anybody wants to grab it just to reemphasize it.

MR. RESNER: Thanks, Brian. Appreciate that. TSA, Transportation Security Administration, amended the REAL ID regulations in 6 CFR part 37.

REAL ID driver's licenses and identification cards.

The final rule establishes a temporary waiver process that permits federal agencies to accept MDLs, mobile driver's licenses, for official purposes on an interim basis when full enforcement begins on May 7, 2025, but only if, as I said previously, only if TSA has issued a waiver to that particular state issuing a mobile driver's license.

The effective date of the final rule is going to be November 25, 2024. There's additional information available at the TSA website. I think that's the website you just dropped in there, Brian?

MR. ZALESKI: I dropped the actual Federal Register notice in there.

MR. RESNER: Okay. There's a website that discusses

that, it's https://www.tsa.gov/digital-id.

MR. ZALESKI: Yeah, I'm going to put it

62 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1716 14th STREET, N.W., SUITE 200 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20009-4309 www.nealrgross.com into the chat as well.

MR.

VAZQUEZ:

So,

Matt, the main takeaway here is that alone with the development of mobile driver's license technologies, there's also the expectation that a reader, the proper reader be used to recognize those mobile driver's licenses.

That would also tie into our requirements under 73.55 for the fact that it needs to be a recognized form of ID and in order for it to be recognized, the reader is a key component there.

That being said, licensees would have the option under our requirements and also these implementing requirements that were just finalized by DHS, that if a mobile driver's license is to be used, licensees would have the option to obtain the proper reader that could be used to recognize that ID. So that is something that is a development in technology that we want to acknowledge and if licensees want to take advantage of that technology then they certainly have the prerogative to do so and obtain a reader at their discretion if they did want to use that.

That being said, the NRC is not going to -- we don't require licensees to accept or

63 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1716 14th STREET, N.W., SUITE 200 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20009-4309 www.nealrgross.com review mobile driver's licenses; that is a

discretionary option, but if that is an option that your site or any other site would like to take then that would be an option that's available to you as long as the standards are being met as outlined in that rule and align with our expectations.

MR.

DEIGNAN:

I appreciate the information. Thank you.

MR. VAZQUEZ: Great, great. We didn't have anyone from the phone on mute. Mark, I'll send it back to you if you've got any more engagement with Johnny or anyone else.

MR.

RESNER:

Yes, any additional comments or questions?

MR. ROGERS: Mark, I had just a few more if we have time.

MR. RESNER: Sure, Johnny, shoot.

MR. ROGERS: This really has to do with oversight. Will compliance become part of the NRC inspection process for this element? If so, under which inspection procedure and how will compliance issues be treated?

MR. RESNER: Johnny, yes it will under the baseline Access Authorization requirements,

64 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1716 14th STREET, N.W., SUITE 200 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20009-4309 www.nealrgross.com 73.56(d)(3), Verification of True Identity as well as 73.55(g)(7) which is the photo IDs being used in the physical security aspect.

So, the inspection procedure, to get to your question, would be 71130.01, which is Access Authorization, the ML number for that is ML23275A142; and then the other inspection procedure, which would cover access control, would be 71130.02, and Brian dropped that in, thank you, Brian. The ML number is ML23040A291. They're nonpublic, though; it's OUO-SRI. But those are the governing access authorization inspection procedures that will cover that. Does that answer your question?

MR. ROGERS: Yes, I think so. That's already effective. Are these elements for REAL ID inspection already embedded in this inspection manual? First time I'm seeing it.

MR. RESNER: No, they haven't and we would have to -- that's sort of a takeaway for us, we're going to have to look at those and develop specific wording to enhance those procedures.

MR. ROGERS: Okay.

MR. VAZQUEZ: And, Johnny, we're

65 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1716 14th STREET, N.W., SUITE 200 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20009-4309 www.nealrgross.com working with our counterparts in NSIR's Division of Security Oversight to look at those procedures and the potential needs. It's something that we are definitely considering and working with our own counterparts on.

MR. ROGERS: Very good. Mark, I don't have any more questions. I appreciate all of the information today. I'll yield back the floor to you.

MR. RESNER: Thank you very much, Johnny. I appreciate your questions and attendance here. Any other comments, questions?

MR. VAZQUEZ: I think we'll pause really quick. I want to check again with George on the TSA side. Was there anything else that came up during the conversation that you wanted to speak to or any other final thoughts from DHS?

MR. PETERSEN: No.

MR. VAZQUEZ: Okay. All right, I'm going to share my screen and do another plug just for the materials that DHS/TSA have put out there.

Again, there's a lot of great materials out there and if you're looking for strategies in how to adapt that for your own organization, in promoting

66 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1716 14th STREET, N.W., SUITE 200 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20009-4309 www.nealrgross.com the obtaining and adoption of REAL IDs, then we would encourage you reach out to George and his group.

First, look to their website because they've got a lot of great resources already available there. I know George and his team are busy with the final rulemaking that's going into effect ahead of the REAL ID implementation, but yeah we want to provide as much support as possible.

Again, George, thank you so much for joining us, providing all the really helpful, valuable information. This has been a really important joint effort between the NRC and DHS and we're very grateful that we had the opportunity today to have you available. Just your presence today as a resource to our licensees because a lot of information needs, as you can see from the discussion, and we're really glad that we've been able to address some of these questions and that we'll be able to continue to address those questions as we move forward with the issuance of communications.

With that, I'm also going to pause

67 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1716 14th STREET, N.W., SUITE 200 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20009-4309 www.nealrgross.com really quick. We don't have any last questions? I don't think I saw anymore hands raised. Actually, it looks like Mr. Anderson, do you have another question?

MR. ANDERSON: No. This is Andy Anderson again, Constellation. I just want to make it clear from a licensee perspective, you know, no pressure at all, but any sooner that we can get clear black and white guidance from the NRC is very helpful given the time crunch we're under. Having some clear guidance and requirements from the NRC that we can start giving our personnel -- trying to answer questions now that we don't have answers to is quite challenging as this approaches.

Then, obviously the quicker that we can receive the open questions from this call in that correspondence would just be greatly appreciated from a licensee perspective. Again, thank you to the NRC and NEI for helping put this together and answering, but the quicker we can get it, the better. So, thank you.

MR.

VAZQUEZ:

Understood, you're welcome.

MR. ZALESKI: We have another question

68 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1716 14th STREET, N.W., SUITE 200 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20009-4309 www.nealrgross.com from Teddy Reed.

MR. REED: Hey, Brian, thank you.

Justin, thank you to you and your team. Excellent information, really appreciated the level of details provided. I just have a question. So, on the

slides, an official visit being escorted typically in our arena, in Security and Access, that is somebody who is performing work. They may not pass all the training requirements. They are doing a site visit. They're supporting an audit inspection, something of that nature. Many of our licensees have Kids Day, Diversity, Bring Your Child to Work Day, soft visits. Is that going to be applicable to REAL ID as well?

MR. RESNER: The visitors are covered under that, Teddy, visitors and escorted access under the REAL ID. I think our normal process has been the age of 18 being the cut off and I note that also the TSA requirements for boarding aircraft pertain to those over 18.

It's something we can certainly look into, but I don't think it would apply to a child, but we'll find out and give you a solid answer on that.

69 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1716 14th STREET, N.W., SUITE 200 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20009-4309 www.nealrgross.com MR. REED: Okay. Thank you, so that definitely from a physical security aspect, I think that would be something of interest that we need to make sure to just provide that clarity.

MR.

RESNER:

Thank you for the question.

MR. REED: Yes, sir, thank you.

MR. VAZQUEZ: Okay, and I'll pause really quick. Are there any last questions, comments? Anyone want to raise their hand or just come off mute if you've got anything else? Okay, well not seeing anyone, I did want to give a chance. We do have Shakur and Tony, who are with us, did either of you want to provide any additional remarks or reflections on today's discussion?

MR.

WALKER:

Thanks, Justin.

Appreciate the opportunity. Nothing necessarily substantial to add, but just great questions. I thank you all for joining, great participation.

Thank you for the responses.

Just to answer, I think it was Andrew that asked, yeah, we will work quickly to get these responses and the generic communication out. We're

70 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1716 14th STREET, N.W., SUITE 200 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20009-4309 www.nealrgross.com anticipating getting some additional insights or questions from this meeting that we can incorporate so that we would just be able to have this face to face, well, you know, literally at least a personal meeting, before issuing that guidance.

We understand the concerns and the anticipation for getting something out quickly and the urgency, so we are working to do that. Thank you for that comment and I thank you again for everyone's participation today and questions.

Thanks to Mark and Justin and I know our DHS counterparts, I think, dropped off, but thank you to them as well.

MR. RESNER: Thank you.

MR. VAZQUEZ: I'll echo that as well.

Mark, thanks for leading the discussion and, Brian, thanks for helping with things behind the scenes.

Really appreciate it.

All right, with that, I think that we are ready to adjourn today's meeting. Again, as Shakur

said, thank you to everyone for participating for the great questions. We've got a few takeaway items that we'll be following up on and finding the right avenue to communicate our

71 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1716 14th STREET, N.W., SUITE 200 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20009-4309 www.nealrgross.com answers there, whether it's part of the generic communication or through separate means. We will be working to get that information to our stakeholders so that you can all be ready for the upcoming milestones with the REAL ID Act.

Thank you all for your time and I hope everyone has a great day.

(Whereupon, the above-entitled matter went off the record at 4:22 p.m.)